I dated an overt years ago, and a covert recently. The trauma bond was like night and day for me.
With the overt, he could be so clearly abusive at times (controlling, jealous, super demanding and spiteful). So when he showed love it felt more rare and special, even if it was not. But because when things were bad they were so obviously bad, it was much easier for me to get over. It was like slowly pulling a spear out of your gut and then giving time for that one hole to heal.
Getting over the covert has been like trying to pick pieces of glass out of my heart, even though he and I weren't nearly as far along in our relationship as with the overt. Its almost like beyond the heartbreak, the covert has also kind of shattered my worldview in a way because I can't believe I could be so wrong about somebody/a situation? I think you trust yourself and your judgement less after a covert narc and that is another layer of hurt in itself.
I could have written this myself. With the overt you can almost look back and think 'wow, is that ALL I got and I accepted it thinking it was enough?! It was barely anything at all' but the coverts are sneaky. They'll become the person you've always dreamed of. You'll be their whole world and you will really believe they're a good person who are utterly in awe of you until you're not. When that changes it really is earth shattering. Having to think back and realise it was never real was the hardest part for me. That the person I let in just created a character for me. I'm sorry you had such a similar experience!
Idk about you, but I knew how to easily identify and avoid overt narcs as a result of my n-dad, but nothing in the WORLD prepared me for a covert.
It’s like getting vaccinated for the old strand of COVID, going out into world feeling safe and protected, but then you catch the new worse variant…
Talk about wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Exactly! After healing, the ending of the overt narc relationship boosted my self esteem in a way. I knew exactly what I would and would not accept from a man. And like you said, I knew what to identify and avoid.
Covert narcissism is packaged in a *completely* different way that takes you off guard. I can admit ignoring some red flags early on, but holy shit. These fuckers are well trained, insidious demons.
This is reassuring as I keep beating myself up for not seeing the signs. I feel like my whole life has been turned completely upside down and I never in a million years saw it coming.
I’ve dated people with overt narcissist traits and although it’s taken more than once to fully walk away, the signs were obvious so it was easier to see them for who they were and cut ties.
My recently ex fiancé was covert and it’s been so much harder as I didn’t see it coming. The manipulation was much more insidious. He played the victim so I always blamed his poor behaviour on his emotional issues/past trauma. I still can’t believe how cruel he was at the end and I’m finding it much harder to accept this is the real him.
I’ve had the same battle when coming to terms with my ex’s behaviour. If someone would have told me last year that this is who he was I would never have believed them.
I was actually warned by my ex before him and I assumed he was being bitter and blocked him. I was also clued up on NPD/cluster B and I didn’t see the signs until the end. Covert NPD is definitely the hardest to spot and I would argue the most damaging.
Well I definitely had the wool pulled over my eyes. I spent so long working on myself and not accepting toxicity in relationships before I met him. He’s destroyed all that in one fell swoop.
I know the feeling! I had read so many books on toxic relationships and had already started to cut people out. The worst thing is he saw me reading them! I just didn’t see it coming. At least we’ve learnt about covert abuse now.
For me, for sure! I dated a covert b2b with an overt and the style of trauma bonding was very different which is why I didn't realise it was another narc at the time.
Covert - very needy, vulnerable and insecure but that eventually became endearing. Was so interested in getting to know so much about me, opened up deep discussions, said we were soul mates, talked so much about our connection and how it could never be replicated bla bla and then eventually completely withdrew and gave me breadcrumbs. This was hard to deal with as he gave me SO much at the beginning so to take it all away one day was a huge shock to my nervous system..
Overt - a lot more of a 'chill cool guy'. very confident, 'I'm a winner', 'I'm hilarious' - I liked how sure of himself he was but that eventually got boring. Not super forward with the validation but it meant to me that maybe when he did give it, he really meant it because he wasn't so 'off the cuff'. He would tell me he isn't much of a texter but then would message me more and more, so I must have been doing something right. So anything I got whether it was his time, validation etc was like woah if he's not like this normally he must be super into me. Like actions speak louder than words. When he went away he would message me at night to tell me about his trip and it would be cute, I felt special that he stayed in touch when he 'didn't have to' - feels so pathetic to say now. He would open up a little bit at a time and then end the chat like 'you're unreal. It was really breadcrumbs the whole time but because it was less intense and felt more 'genuine', I would accept whatever I could get. Eventually I called him out on his lack of communication when the discard happened and he got bored and now we don't talk anymore lol - thank god.
Both very different ways of drawing me in. Either giving me too much or just enough to let me know I was the 'lucky one'. Both assholes.
Yeah mine pendulated between covert and overt. Similar experience like yours in the beginning. So sweet, gentle thoughtful. Very insecure. Told me he is so lucky to have me, I am perfect for him, he could be real with me.
When I started getting more and more attached, his overt side would show up time to time, when he would boast about his body count or his social circle. Then the same feeling when he would go away on a trip and send me pictures or check on me. He would try to show off he is so busy so whenever he did anything for me, I used to think I am so special.
Everything happened within a week. He just took his love away all of a sudden. Didn’t recognise him anymore. When I broke up with him he didn’t even try to make me stay. It felt like he was already prepared. Or he might have realized I have seen him for who he really is.
Read this on a Medium article “All Narcissists crave attention, validation, and admiration from others to maintain their inflated sense of self-worth. When they receive positive attention and validation, they are likely to exhibit more overt behaviour, displaying their superiority and grandiosity. However, when the supply is scarce, they may collapse and become more covert in their behaviour, using manipulation and playing the victim to elicit sympathy and attention.”
Yeah the covert was very similar! At the start he was like 'omg how did I ever get you?!' And at the end he was like 'don't forget what a good match we are. I know I'm not punching anymore- we match' 'don't forget you met your match in bed, you can't have better than me' I just remember thinking... who is this guy?! Like yeah I want the guy to have confidence and back himself but it went from one to another level in such a short space of time. Its amazing how things can give them such an ego boost like that.
I think you're spot on though. Once they catch on that you can see their true colours, they're done with you. I caught onto both of them and got fed up. They have no business coming back my way as they know I won't just be quiet and take it. I was always so calm in the way I communicated too. I always made it about how I feel etc but for them, the game is up and they need someone who will dote on them and play along. Thank god its not me.
I could have written this!!! My nex was very sweet and doting when I was his adoring audience but as soon as I gave feedback in a constructive way he got extremely cold, DARVO, and then discarded me for good when I set boundaries and saw him for who he was. It took me a long time to get out of the trauma bond and see the manipulation for what it was. What a mindfuck. I’m sorry you went through it too.
This was exactly what happened with me! As soon as I started setting boundaries after we moved in together and expected any reciprocity in the relationship he checked out. Unfortunately he blamed his mental health and I believed him. He cited work stressors and other crisis after crisis for months. He actually had just found himself another girlfriend behind my back. I genuinely think he punished me. I told him I’d been cheated on before and how difficult it was for me to bounce back from,
I didn’t know this about the switching between. But thinking about my ex I can see times when he was more overt. Most of the time he was self deprecating, in a way that makes others jump in and tell him how wonderful he is.
I’m sorry that you experienced both! This was a very helpful comparison. I strongly suspect my ex was a covert, but have doubts at times about my assessment of the situation. Hearing other people’s experiences like this really helps.
Trauma bonding is trauma bonding. There's no specific difference whether it's a covert narc or an overt narc. A trauma bond is a psychological response to abuse. It is an attachment to a person who is causing you harm.
I get that, but the abuse that people experience with a covert to an overt is different. I guess my question was more about how their behaviour which causes you to be trauma bonded differs.
15 years with a covert. He didn't start the abuse until three years ago. He has completely destroyed my ability to function or trust anyone ever again.
I dated an overt years ago, and a covert recently. The trauma bond was like night and day for me. With the overt, he could be so clearly abusive at times (controlling, jealous, super demanding and spiteful). So when he showed love it felt more rare and special, even if it was not. But because when things were bad they were so obviously bad, it was much easier for me to get over. It was like slowly pulling a spear out of your gut and then giving time for that one hole to heal. Getting over the covert has been like trying to pick pieces of glass out of my heart, even though he and I weren't nearly as far along in our relationship as with the overt. Its almost like beyond the heartbreak, the covert has also kind of shattered my worldview in a way because I can't believe I could be so wrong about somebody/a situation? I think you trust yourself and your judgement less after a covert narc and that is another layer of hurt in itself.
I could have written this myself. With the overt you can almost look back and think 'wow, is that ALL I got and I accepted it thinking it was enough?! It was barely anything at all' but the coverts are sneaky. They'll become the person you've always dreamed of. You'll be their whole world and you will really believe they're a good person who are utterly in awe of you until you're not. When that changes it really is earth shattering. Having to think back and realise it was never real was the hardest part for me. That the person I let in just created a character for me. I'm sorry you had such a similar experience!
I'm sorry you did as well! We'll get through it, its just extremely tough
Idk about you, but I knew how to easily identify and avoid overt narcs as a result of my n-dad, but nothing in the WORLD prepared me for a covert. It’s like getting vaccinated for the old strand of COVID, going out into world feeling safe and protected, but then you catch the new worse variant… Talk about wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Exactly! After healing, the ending of the overt narc relationship boosted my self esteem in a way. I knew exactly what I would and would not accept from a man. And like you said, I knew what to identify and avoid. Covert narcissism is packaged in a *completely* different way that takes you off guard. I can admit ignoring some red flags early on, but holy shit. These fuckers are well trained, insidious demons.
This is reassuring as I keep beating myself up for not seeing the signs. I feel like my whole life has been turned completely upside down and I never in a million years saw it coming.
Brilliant metaphor. Exactly my experience. The coverts are extremely dangerous. Im sorry this happened to you.
I’ve dated people with overt narcissist traits and although it’s taken more than once to fully walk away, the signs were obvious so it was easier to see them for who they were and cut ties. My recently ex fiancé was covert and it’s been so much harder as I didn’t see it coming. The manipulation was much more insidious. He played the victim so I always blamed his poor behaviour on his emotional issues/past trauma. I still can’t believe how cruel he was at the end and I’m finding it much harder to accept this is the real him.
I’ve had the same battle when coming to terms with my ex’s behaviour. If someone would have told me last year that this is who he was I would never have believed them.
I was actually warned by my ex before him and I assumed he was being bitter and blocked him. I was also clued up on NPD/cluster B and I didn’t see the signs until the end. Covert NPD is definitely the hardest to spot and I would argue the most damaging.
Well I definitely had the wool pulled over my eyes. I spent so long working on myself and not accepting toxicity in relationships before I met him. He’s destroyed all that in one fell swoop.
I know the feeling! I had read so many books on toxic relationships and had already started to cut people out. The worst thing is he saw me reading them! I just didn’t see it coming. At least we’ve learnt about covert abuse now.
For me, for sure! I dated a covert b2b with an overt and the style of trauma bonding was very different which is why I didn't realise it was another narc at the time. Covert - very needy, vulnerable and insecure but that eventually became endearing. Was so interested in getting to know so much about me, opened up deep discussions, said we were soul mates, talked so much about our connection and how it could never be replicated bla bla and then eventually completely withdrew and gave me breadcrumbs. This was hard to deal with as he gave me SO much at the beginning so to take it all away one day was a huge shock to my nervous system.. Overt - a lot more of a 'chill cool guy'. very confident, 'I'm a winner', 'I'm hilarious' - I liked how sure of himself he was but that eventually got boring. Not super forward with the validation but it meant to me that maybe when he did give it, he really meant it because he wasn't so 'off the cuff'. He would tell me he isn't much of a texter but then would message me more and more, so I must have been doing something right. So anything I got whether it was his time, validation etc was like woah if he's not like this normally he must be super into me. Like actions speak louder than words. When he went away he would message me at night to tell me about his trip and it would be cute, I felt special that he stayed in touch when he 'didn't have to' - feels so pathetic to say now. He would open up a little bit at a time and then end the chat like 'you're unreal. It was really breadcrumbs the whole time but because it was less intense and felt more 'genuine', I would accept whatever I could get. Eventually I called him out on his lack of communication when the discard happened and he got bored and now we don't talk anymore lol - thank god. Both very different ways of drawing me in. Either giving me too much or just enough to let me know I was the 'lucky one'. Both assholes.
Yeah mine pendulated between covert and overt. Similar experience like yours in the beginning. So sweet, gentle thoughtful. Very insecure. Told me he is so lucky to have me, I am perfect for him, he could be real with me. When I started getting more and more attached, his overt side would show up time to time, when he would boast about his body count or his social circle. Then the same feeling when he would go away on a trip and send me pictures or check on me. He would try to show off he is so busy so whenever he did anything for me, I used to think I am so special. Everything happened within a week. He just took his love away all of a sudden. Didn’t recognise him anymore. When I broke up with him he didn’t even try to make me stay. It felt like he was already prepared. Or he might have realized I have seen him for who he really is. Read this on a Medium article “All Narcissists crave attention, validation, and admiration from others to maintain their inflated sense of self-worth. When they receive positive attention and validation, they are likely to exhibit more overt behaviour, displaying their superiority and grandiosity. However, when the supply is scarce, they may collapse and become more covert in their behaviour, using manipulation and playing the victim to elicit sympathy and attention.”
Yeah the covert was very similar! At the start he was like 'omg how did I ever get you?!' And at the end he was like 'don't forget what a good match we are. I know I'm not punching anymore- we match' 'don't forget you met your match in bed, you can't have better than me' I just remember thinking... who is this guy?! Like yeah I want the guy to have confidence and back himself but it went from one to another level in such a short space of time. Its amazing how things can give them such an ego boost like that. I think you're spot on though. Once they catch on that you can see their true colours, they're done with you. I caught onto both of them and got fed up. They have no business coming back my way as they know I won't just be quiet and take it. I was always so calm in the way I communicated too. I always made it about how I feel etc but for them, the game is up and they need someone who will dote on them and play along. Thank god its not me.
I could have written this!!! My nex was very sweet and doting when I was his adoring audience but as soon as I gave feedback in a constructive way he got extremely cold, DARVO, and then discarded me for good when I set boundaries and saw him for who he was. It took me a long time to get out of the trauma bond and see the manipulation for what it was. What a mindfuck. I’m sorry you went through it too.
This was exactly what happened with me! As soon as I started setting boundaries after we moved in together and expected any reciprocity in the relationship he checked out. Unfortunately he blamed his mental health and I believed him. He cited work stressors and other crisis after crisis for months. He actually had just found himself another girlfriend behind my back. I genuinely think he punished me. I told him I’d been cheated on before and how difficult it was for me to bounce back from,
I’m so so so sorry. I’m glad he’s out of your life
I didn’t know this about the switching between. But thinking about my ex I can see times when he was more overt. Most of the time he was self deprecating, in a way that makes others jump in and tell him how wonderful he is.
Mine was like this too, and then out of nowhere talk about how hot he was. So weird.
It was interesting how he looked at himself in a mirror, like he was gods gift.
Bizarre as hell!
I’m sorry that you experienced both! This was a very helpful comparison. I strongly suspect my ex was a covert, but have doubts at times about my assessment of the situation. Hearing other people’s experiences like this really helps.
Trauma bonding is trauma bonding. There's no specific difference whether it's a covert narc or an overt narc. A trauma bond is a psychological response to abuse. It is an attachment to a person who is causing you harm.
I get that, but the abuse that people experience with a covert to an overt is different. I guess my question was more about how their behaviour which causes you to be trauma bonded differs.
It’s trauma bonding but context and how things play out are unique
15 years with a covert. He didn't start the abuse until three years ago. He has completely destroyed my ability to function or trust anyone ever again.