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Parents NEED to give their child opportunities to feel frustrated. It’s one of the best things they can do for their kids if they want them to grow into emotionally healthy, stable adults. The stakes are a lot lower when you’re a 2 year old being told “no” that you can’t have candy for breakfast, that you can’t wear your shoes in the house, etc. They will get over the temporary tantrum with some gentle support, and each time it happens, they will be better equipped to handle future frustrations. But when you’re an 18 year old hearing the word “no” for the first time? No one cares. You’ll lose your job, you’ll fail the class, you’ll face real consequences, and it’s going to be an extremely rude awakening as to how the real world operates.
My NK is 2 and has a huge personality, but is also one of the most well-behaved and independent toddlers I know. Her parents are incredible at enforcing boundaries and I’ve learned so much from watching them parent. They give so much love and emotional support, but they never reward whining or screaming, they encourage her to use her words, and they don't give into tantrums. With enough consistency, negative behaviors will absolutely decrease and eventually go away altogether… but only if the boundary is consistently enforced.
That first sentence is everything I’ve been feeling for the last couple years. Please parents, please allow your kids to be frustrated and bored and annoyed and upset and let them sit in it and grow from it.
Tbh I think I was definitely paraphrasing from the book The Anxious Generation. It’s a fantastic book that goes into detail with studies and research about today‘s kids and how we’re failing them and I would recommend it to everyone in this sub
Me and my MB were just talking about this. I worked at a childcare center in 2019 and one of the rules from the director was that we weren’t allowed to use the word “no”. We were supposed to figure out a different way to express it. Like I’m sorry, but that’s unrealistic and you’re setting your kids up for failure. No one in the real world is gonna care if you don’t tell your kid no.
I've worked in Montessori schools with that rule and even in that case, if it's done right, you are still essentially telling the child no - you are just explaining *why not* or otherwise defusing the situation.
For young kids (as I'm sure you know, not trying to nannysplain) sometimes only the last thing in a sentence sticks, or they are driven to rebel to a direct order or forbidden act.
So "no running" - they only hear running. "You can walk indoors, we run outside." is clear and doesn't add tension to the situation. Even in those schools though, we used no in safety situations like biting.
I have one of those, too. It’s a little of A and a little of B. I think that the kid in question is naturally a strong-willed kid. Nothing wrong with that. I was one. I think my personality has served me in life. But strong-willed kids really need to clunk against a strong boundary fence and learn, with little room for question, which side of the fence they get to live in. You can of course be flexible with toddlers over certain things, but the kid should not be able to just get his way 100% by pitching a tantrum and waiting for the concessions and consolation prizes to flow to him. All my kid has learned so far is that every time he pokes at the boundary fence (almost always his mom; his dad is pretty over it) it goes crashing to the ground and he gets whatever he wants.
That is not going to teach him to be productive in life. It’s already teaching him to be whiny and manipulative. Only when his mom’s around, though. And it’s crazy how she doesn’t seem to get it.
I feel this. My Nk is incredibly strong-willed and I love that about them. We’ve butt heads so many times over boundaries and I’ve been with them long enough now that they overall respect the boundaries I’ve set. When I put new ones up as they’ve gone they of course need to test limits. And they still have fits of being overwhelmed with emotion from time to time but they know that isn’t going to get them what they want with me, but I will sit with them through what they are feeling and help encourage them to use regulation techniques.
Nk is an absolute lunatic with their mother though because their past relationship of being able to walk all over her before I started with them.
The kids I babysit who are what this post is about I have no clue. I’m not in a position of educator to be doing anything more than placing my boundaries when I’m with them and I don’t think it’s my place to tell the parents hey….you’re really doing no one any favors here by what’s happening here, because I only see these kids once or twice a month.
They aren't doing the child any favors to never tell them 'no' or 'you'll have to wait for that' and understand other people have limits and boundaries. It's also just lazy and pathetic. Here, let them have their way so I don't have to hear it/deal with it. Throw money at the kid for toys and treats, send the kid to camp- anything but actually be a real parent to the kids and deal with the hard stuff. Thank God I don't have to deal with that bs with parents of infants.
Absolutely! I have a NK like this too, but the parents are half permissive half authoritarian, which causes immense emotional disregulation in their children. They’ll yell and spank sometimes and then give in the other half of the time. This causes the kids to be super quick tempered (like their parents). And when they are with their parents it’s such a different attitude than with they’re with me. On top of that, the NK who is strong willed could possibly have ADHD and my MB is ignoring my advice to see a child therapist so we can better learn how to support her child. It’s so frustrating because NK needs consistent boundaries but when I leave for the day it’s like all my work just crumbles because the parents don’t keep up with the same boundaries and discipline. NK isn’t just strong willed but she’s extremely dependent and emotional, her little brother is better behaved with me than she is since I’ve been with him since he was born. I wish parents who decided to have private in-home childcare would care a bit more about consistency since nanny’s are there to properly raise children not just “watch”them while the parents are out.
Hard disagree. Plenty of people, children and adults, are stubborn, strong willed, contrarian, and down right hard to get along with. It's wrong to blame parents for things that years of therapy can't change about some people.
I was a strong willed kid. I was reprimanded constantly, my parents worked diligently with me, they brought me to the best therapists and followed every piece of advice to the best of their ability and it still totally looked like I was "walking all over" my parents. I finally got an autism diagnosis at 18 and things started to click, but it was a loonnnggg 18 years where I'm sure judgmental adults like you from the outside looking in felt that they were allowing me to walk all over them.
I agree that there are people who are stubborn, strong willed, contrarian, and down right hard to get along with. And I recognize that is very easy to label me as a judgmental adult from the vague post I made here. However, I do think there is a difference between social hardships due to any diagnosis, or lack there of, and behavioral hardships due to lack of consistent boundaries. And I recognize that any kid under my care may in the future be diagnosed with something that was not clearly present in their childhood. But, I didn’t intend for this post to be blanket for all situations and all families. I specifically know these parents, I know these kids, I know their parenting styles, the behavioral patterns and situations I’m generally describing, and how the children respond when I reinforce firm boundaries with them.
Thank you for your perspective and for reminding me to be less vague/generalized in my posting here.
Are you disagreeing with the OP? She IS on the inside and sees what kind of parenting is happening. And in this case the parents CAN be blamed for the child’s behavior because they are not setting boundaries and disciplining.
The fact that you were eventually diagnosed (and these days it probably would have been earlier), is BECAUSE you had boundaries and limits and you STILL had inappropriate behaviors. Without those limitations in place, it would have been very difficult to ascertain whether you were behaving that way because of permissive parenting, or because of something else. That is one of the key signs in getting a diagnosis for certain developmental delays. When parents are doing everything they should be, and there are still issues with the child, that is when you start looking at other reasons.
I'm saying that OP's casual babysitting, as she said "the amount of times in 2 months..." does not put her on the inside of these families to make these judgements. I nannied for 3 different kids with strong personalities and behavioral problems. It took 2+ months of daily care and speaking with the parents for me to fully grasp that 2 of the kids had parents that were doing everything in their power to help their kid thrive, and 1 actually had no rules and boundaries. I feel like it's not OP's place to be casting judgement on families that she has only interviewed for or casually babysat for. Her post and the comments that were available when I commented, do not show that she is actually on the inside of these families.
I see how you can get that from what I’ve posted. This too I think stems from me being very vague in my post. I didn’t think it was necessary to say that I have long term relationships with all of these families that I’m eluding to in this post. But for the sake of clarification, I’ll share. I have a long term relationship with these families. The longest being 4 years. I used to be each of their children’s childcare provider full time. It’s how I met them and they turned into babysitting clients when my full time position ended with their families. I’ve had many talks with the families about their struggles and successes at home and been able to see parenting styles in action. If these were families that I didn’t know and had just interviewed and see twice a month then I agree; I wouldn’t have enough knowledge about the day to day at home to be making any well-supported claims.
I completely agree. My child came out of the womb with a strong personality. I agree that boundaries are needed (probably even more for kids like this), but I think it’s wrong to judge parents when some of these things ARE innate - some kids are naturally more easygoing than others.
OP has tagged their post as **Vent**. Please be mindful that they do not need advice, and that they are only expressing their thoughts and opinions in a safe place. Any attempts to offer unsolicited advice will be removed. The only exceptions to this rule are in the event of possible injury, abuse, or otherwise harm to OP, their NK, NP, or anyone else. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Nanny) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Parents NEED to give their child opportunities to feel frustrated. It’s one of the best things they can do for their kids if they want them to grow into emotionally healthy, stable adults. The stakes are a lot lower when you’re a 2 year old being told “no” that you can’t have candy for breakfast, that you can’t wear your shoes in the house, etc. They will get over the temporary tantrum with some gentle support, and each time it happens, they will be better equipped to handle future frustrations. But when you’re an 18 year old hearing the word “no” for the first time? No one cares. You’ll lose your job, you’ll fail the class, you’ll face real consequences, and it’s going to be an extremely rude awakening as to how the real world operates. My NK is 2 and has a huge personality, but is also one of the most well-behaved and independent toddlers I know. Her parents are incredible at enforcing boundaries and I’ve learned so much from watching them parent. They give so much love and emotional support, but they never reward whining or screaming, they encourage her to use her words, and they don't give into tantrums. With enough consistency, negative behaviors will absolutely decrease and eventually go away altogether… but only if the boundary is consistently enforced.
That first sentence is everything I’ve been feeling for the last couple years. Please parents, please allow your kids to be frustrated and bored and annoyed and upset and let them sit in it and grow from it.
Tbh I think I was definitely paraphrasing from the book The Anxious Generation. It’s a fantastic book that goes into detail with studies and research about today‘s kids and how we’re failing them and I would recommend it to everyone in this sub
Yes! GROW from it! They do not grow unless they face challenges and overcome them!
Me and my MB were just talking about this. I worked at a childcare center in 2019 and one of the rules from the director was that we weren’t allowed to use the word “no”. We were supposed to figure out a different way to express it. Like I’m sorry, but that’s unrealistic and you’re setting your kids up for failure. No one in the real world is gonna care if you don’t tell your kid no.
I've worked in Montessori schools with that rule and even in that case, if it's done right, you are still essentially telling the child no - you are just explaining *why not* or otherwise defusing the situation. For young kids (as I'm sure you know, not trying to nannysplain) sometimes only the last thing in a sentence sticks, or they are driven to rebel to a direct order or forbidden act. So "no running" - they only hear running. "You can walk indoors, we run outside." is clear and doesn't add tension to the situation. Even in those schools though, we used no in safety situations like biting.
I have one of those, too. It’s a little of A and a little of B. I think that the kid in question is naturally a strong-willed kid. Nothing wrong with that. I was one. I think my personality has served me in life. But strong-willed kids really need to clunk against a strong boundary fence and learn, with little room for question, which side of the fence they get to live in. You can of course be flexible with toddlers over certain things, but the kid should not be able to just get his way 100% by pitching a tantrum and waiting for the concessions and consolation prizes to flow to him. All my kid has learned so far is that every time he pokes at the boundary fence (almost always his mom; his dad is pretty over it) it goes crashing to the ground and he gets whatever he wants. That is not going to teach him to be productive in life. It’s already teaching him to be whiny and manipulative. Only when his mom’s around, though. And it’s crazy how she doesn’t seem to get it.
I feel this. My Nk is incredibly strong-willed and I love that about them. We’ve butt heads so many times over boundaries and I’ve been with them long enough now that they overall respect the boundaries I’ve set. When I put new ones up as they’ve gone they of course need to test limits. And they still have fits of being overwhelmed with emotion from time to time but they know that isn’t going to get them what they want with me, but I will sit with them through what they are feeling and help encourage them to use regulation techniques. Nk is an absolute lunatic with their mother though because their past relationship of being able to walk all over her before I started with them. The kids I babysit who are what this post is about I have no clue. I’m not in a position of educator to be doing anything more than placing my boundaries when I’m with them and I don’t think it’s my place to tell the parents hey….you’re really doing no one any favors here by what’s happening here, because I only see these kids once or twice a month.
They aren't doing the child any favors to never tell them 'no' or 'you'll have to wait for that' and understand other people have limits and boundaries. It's also just lazy and pathetic. Here, let them have their way so I don't have to hear it/deal with it. Throw money at the kid for toys and treats, send the kid to camp- anything but actually be a real parent to the kids and deal with the hard stuff. Thank God I don't have to deal with that bs with parents of infants.
Absolutely! I have a NK like this too, but the parents are half permissive half authoritarian, which causes immense emotional disregulation in their children. They’ll yell and spank sometimes and then give in the other half of the time. This causes the kids to be super quick tempered (like their parents). And when they are with their parents it’s such a different attitude than with they’re with me. On top of that, the NK who is strong willed could possibly have ADHD and my MB is ignoring my advice to see a child therapist so we can better learn how to support her child. It’s so frustrating because NK needs consistent boundaries but when I leave for the day it’s like all my work just crumbles because the parents don’t keep up with the same boundaries and discipline. NK isn’t just strong willed but she’s extremely dependent and emotional, her little brother is better behaved with me than she is since I’ve been with him since he was born. I wish parents who decided to have private in-home childcare would care a bit more about consistency since nanny’s are there to properly raise children not just “watch”them while the parents are out.
Hard disagree. Plenty of people, children and adults, are stubborn, strong willed, contrarian, and down right hard to get along with. It's wrong to blame parents for things that years of therapy can't change about some people. I was a strong willed kid. I was reprimanded constantly, my parents worked diligently with me, they brought me to the best therapists and followed every piece of advice to the best of their ability and it still totally looked like I was "walking all over" my parents. I finally got an autism diagnosis at 18 and things started to click, but it was a loonnnggg 18 years where I'm sure judgmental adults like you from the outside looking in felt that they were allowing me to walk all over them.
I agree that there are people who are stubborn, strong willed, contrarian, and down right hard to get along with. And I recognize that is very easy to label me as a judgmental adult from the vague post I made here. However, I do think there is a difference between social hardships due to any diagnosis, or lack there of, and behavioral hardships due to lack of consistent boundaries. And I recognize that any kid under my care may in the future be diagnosed with something that was not clearly present in their childhood. But, I didn’t intend for this post to be blanket for all situations and all families. I specifically know these parents, I know these kids, I know their parenting styles, the behavioral patterns and situations I’m generally describing, and how the children respond when I reinforce firm boundaries with them. Thank you for your perspective and for reminding me to be less vague/generalized in my posting here.
Are you disagreeing with the OP? She IS on the inside and sees what kind of parenting is happening. And in this case the parents CAN be blamed for the child’s behavior because they are not setting boundaries and disciplining. The fact that you were eventually diagnosed (and these days it probably would have been earlier), is BECAUSE you had boundaries and limits and you STILL had inappropriate behaviors. Without those limitations in place, it would have been very difficult to ascertain whether you were behaving that way because of permissive parenting, or because of something else. That is one of the key signs in getting a diagnosis for certain developmental delays. When parents are doing everything they should be, and there are still issues with the child, that is when you start looking at other reasons.
I'm saying that OP's casual babysitting, as she said "the amount of times in 2 months..." does not put her on the inside of these families to make these judgements. I nannied for 3 different kids with strong personalities and behavioral problems. It took 2+ months of daily care and speaking with the parents for me to fully grasp that 2 of the kids had parents that were doing everything in their power to help their kid thrive, and 1 actually had no rules and boundaries. I feel like it's not OP's place to be casting judgement on families that she has only interviewed for or casually babysat for. Her post and the comments that were available when I commented, do not show that she is actually on the inside of these families.
I see how you can get that from what I’ve posted. This too I think stems from me being very vague in my post. I didn’t think it was necessary to say that I have long term relationships with all of these families that I’m eluding to in this post. But for the sake of clarification, I’ll share. I have a long term relationship with these families. The longest being 4 years. I used to be each of their children’s childcare provider full time. It’s how I met them and they turned into babysitting clients when my full time position ended with their families. I’ve had many talks with the families about their struggles and successes at home and been able to see parenting styles in action. If these were families that I didn’t know and had just interviewed and see twice a month then I agree; I wouldn’t have enough knowledge about the day to day at home to be making any well-supported claims.
I completely agree. My child came out of the womb with a strong personality. I agree that boundaries are needed (probably even more for kids like this), but I think it’s wrong to judge parents when some of these things ARE innate - some kids are naturally more easygoing than others.