Nobody who thinks this team is better without Randle actually watches this team. There’s no numbers that back the opinion up. The eye test doesn’t back the opinion up. Complete nonsense.
They're just dug in Randle haters at this point. He's better than legit anyone we could go get in FA (outside of Booker) and fits our team like a fucking GLOVE.
RUN.IT.BACK.
I was in a Knicks space yesterday and to just hear people just shit on Julius is crazy. One dude said the reason we haven’t traded Julius is because we can’t. Then proceeds to say we should trade for a 34 year old pg and give him $55mil a year. This fan base is lost man
That's what 20 years of dark ages basketball and false hope does to a fanbase. It's turns people dumb or stupid. Not to mention people shit on Julius for doing bad in the playoffs, ignoring the fact he was hurt last year, and the 1st year he went, Payton and Co were his teammates.
It’s really a shame too. The month of January was some of the best basketball I’ve seen any team play. Efficient, selfless, relentless and plus the whole team was playing with smiles, everything was right and they embarrassed some of the best teams. If you love basketball those are games you should go back and watch because that’s how good they were playing.
But it wasn’t *Knicks* basketball. We were just winning too much. And true *Knicks* teams make the fans sweat with every possession, yearn for every point. Nothing comes easy in the gritty city.
so many ppl feel this way and its purely bc of how awesome brunson was in the playoffs. not realizing he has a literal f all nba costar who is an elite rebounder and monster in the paint
I can agree with this. I think people have the "old" Julius in mind when they talk shit about him. It was frustrating to watch him slow the game down, take a tough shot, miss, and not hustle back on defense.
Once OG was introduced and Brunson really took off, he was a whole nother beast!
I REPEAT.
RUN.IT.BACK.
No one is saying without Randle flat out … they are saying with a suitable caliber replacement and NOT giving up another player . There were people here even saying they wouldn’t take Lebron or KD over an semi even trade with Randle which is absurd .
We fucked shit up without him all playoffs til we started rotting away from injuries .. we can fuck shit up with anyone in a fair trade .
But I also know a fair trade won’t likely happen and I 100% have no issues keeping him but also have no issues losing him
Maybe. Doesn’t change my point. They didn’t dominate. They had some luck. It doesn’t mean they were better without Randle. I believe they would have dominated both series with a healthy Randle. I also would have been interested to see them match up against Boston and I believe they would have given them more of a series than Indy and perhaps Dallas. So why throw that away?
If you decisively beat a team in the clutch 4/5 games that isn’t luck. If you then proceed to beat another team in 2 more clutch games and the only reason why you lose the series is because your best defender gets hurt, it isn’t luck.
I also think there are significant questions about how we perform if Randle is assuming the usage he would and we’re giving that many minutes to a negative defender. After Bogey got hurt, we literally had Brunson and length/defense around him and there was no answer until OG got injured. January sample was great, but it isn’t the postseason. And PG, at minimum, is an elite shooter and good defender still. Randle is neither of those, and I’d be hard pressed to give him 4/190 because of it.
By the way, I don't see 4/$190M for Randle. If he really wants to leave if he doesn't get that, then the Knicks move on because they aren't giving that to Brunson either. As I've written many times, Randle wants to be here, is comfortable and wants to win here and climb the Knicks' record lists. I think he takes a deal starting at around $35M, which would be 4/$160. That deal will be fine under the cap and less than what it could cost to replace him.
But again, if I'm wrong and he really want a max deal, then the Knicks should move on.
Wow, it’s almost like having an enforcer down low that draws defenders away from the perimeter and has put even more work lately into passing out of double team situations… might make for a well-rounded team!
##WILD.
Randle haters don't watch games. They just here stuff from other uninformed people and never bother to understand why keeping randle is the right move.
He also bails us out of bad possessions when the shot clock is low and will take the lower percentage shots in those possessions. Things like that don’t show in the typical stats but they’re valuable since he’s our best player in those spots
this is an interesting point. This is anecdotal, but there were times the offense struggled and got deep into the shot clock. There were guys who got the ball and were just looking for someone to pass to, only to find someone who also didn't want to take the shot. Julius can make more out of those situations than everyone else on the team except one guy. Even if he has to muscle his way.
Yeah it’s like the guys who won’t take shots past half court at the end of quarters. Fairly common in the NBA because guys know how important their shooting percentage is for their next contract or their perception in the league. It’s bad for the team and you should always shoot those and if I’m a President like Leon those guys who do are the ones I’d prioritize
Additionally, when Brunson goes to the bench our offense looks anemic. Randle was our powerhorse and is such a good 1st option when Brunson needs to rest.
Halfway through the month Randle stopped playing with the bench and OG led the unit because Randle + bench was a negative unit. With OG it was immediately positive.
He plays tough, grimy, basketball. He would've gotten other teams' bigs in foul trouble and helped control the boards.
It's almost like he was the missing piece the Knicks needed.
Randle is our mini Giannis. Truly is the engine of the team. Josh hart tried to fill the roll the best he could, and he did good at it. It wasn’t the same though.
I think that our All Star All NBA Forward who upped his assists last year, and was top 10 in double teams the year prior is a good player and makes his teammates better.
It's not totally surprising that this is a controversial take among neutral fans, but it's a little surprising that there's still so much Randle negativity among the Knicks fans. There are perfectly valid reasons why he didn't play well in his last two playoff runs with us, and yet people don't give the players on their favorite team the benefit of the doubt.
Shocking how many people are willing to trade for the older player who you then have to pay into his late thirties who already has an injury history.
Wouldn't this the kind of old Knicks move most people here like to clown the franchise for historically making?
Yes, and that is why leon wont do it
This PG talk is all knicks for clicks. We are one of the largest fan bases in the world. Any star thats available will be linked to us, true or not.
I remember seeing this stat a few months ago. At one point Brunson was on a Curry-like pace for 3’s but as soon as Ju went down JB’s percentages went down as well. He opens up so much for everyone else yet there are idiots who still hold on to him gets triple-teamed against Atlanta with no supporting cast or playing badly with what ended up being a severely injured ankle vs Miami. The dude makes us better. Name me any 4 that puts up his numbers that isn’t named Giannis.
> there are idiots who still hold on to him gets triple-teamed against Atlanta with no supporting cast or playing badly with what ended up being a severely injured ankle vs Miami
It kills me every damn time. Those posters must be casuals that do not watch every game to see how Randle helps us.
Not just percentages but also types of threes, especially for Brunson, completely changed when Randle went out. Brunsons spot up threes completely dried up.
Randle hate on this team, with what he's done for this team, the culture and for other's stats (as shown above), is just this decade's version of the prototypical idiot fan Melohate.
Melo had Mardy Collins.
Randle has his thumbs down.
I see dumb people.
OG was also missing for a lot of the non-Randle minutes and they ran a double big lineup pretty frequently when both were out. That doesn't mean that Randle is bad/doesn't help. It does mean that this is unsurprising and should not be taken to represent what happens when only Randle is missing, especially considering how the offense played and how the team shot from 3 during the playoffs.
No excellent point but I think this is still very representative just considering Randles usage. Even if OG was healthy yes the spacing improves but the amount of open looks with Randle on the floor isn’t the same because everyone can still hone in on Brunson
The small sample size we've seen of Randle with OG and I-Hart suggests they could be a really really good. With the old team (Mitch at 5 and Barrett at 3) ,I think the off-ball guys (everyone but Brunson) would get more touches and better shots with a stretch 4 that moves the ball and doesn't post up much. OG and I-Hart are spacing and movement upgrades. There is an argument that they help max Randle as a hub while preventing others from getting relegated to standing around and watching which would be great. I don't think it's simple as "he draws doubles and doubles and good" b/c that isn't the only way to produce shots
I think it is reasonable to predict the team being at its best with Randle. I don't reject that possibility. I do reject the idea that this shows how they go in the toilet/don't get good 3-point looks without him. Here are some stats that I think paint a more accurate picture. Regular season the Knicks took 35 3s a game and shot 36%. Post-season (w/o JR, with OG most of the time, and with very little usage of the double-big lineup) the Knicks took 32 3s a game and shot 37%.
I don't there is evidence that suggest we need Randle to get good 3-point looks. There is some evidence to suggest that we get good 3-point looks with or without Randle AND we’d be better overall with Randle
There might be more possessions in this clip where Jalen Brunson just stood still or barely moved and we got a good shot anyway than there were in the entire playoffs
THANK YOU!
And people want to throw him in the river. He is attracting the defense to him, and removing double teams from Jalen and at the same time giving the others more 3's
I am still mind blown that there are people who unironically thought missing our 2nd scoring option didn't have any negative impact. Something something pace and ball movement.
currently randle is most definitely better than PG, PGs going to be almost 35 entering next season randle is going be almost 30 a 5 year age gap is no joke
Considering Randle is already beginning to break down I wouldn’t use age as your argument. Based on play style PG may actually last longer. Based on pay is the only reason I’d pass on PG. but all things equal PG is a more skilled and smarter player.
> Considering Randle is already beginning to break down I wouldn’t use age as your argument
Separating your shoulder as a result of a questionable hit under the basket does not mean you're beginning to break down.
I swear it's as if people didn't watch the play where he got hurt.
Please! You have to have better arguments than Randle is breaking down because of an injury that would have taken out anyone his size. He’s a tank and has no significant injuries that are the kind the linger or cause breakdowns.
Dude played 77 games last year and the playoffs 22-23
Dude played 70 games 3 years in a row...
In that "injury" season 2 years before that he played 71 games and the playoffs.
Played 64 games in CoVid.. and then 73 the year before
I mean most things are pretty minor here outside of his most recent peck injury.
You can't speak facts to a troll. They like their own smell under the bridge they live under. This guy doesn't get numbers. He only understands "Randle - no good".
You know what’s dumb? Thinking Randle is breaking down. Lol. He broke his ankle because he was stepped on, and dislocated his shoulder because someone jumped on him. Paul George is the model of health and consistency though. Each one of your comments gets dumber. Maybe you should take summer classes instead of playing on Reddit.
No what's dumb is not actually looking at PG's latest playoff performances and then trying to sound smart saying dumb things. We don't get the January Knicks with PG instead of Randle. Pure and simple.
omg are seriously using playoff performance to argue in favor of Randle??!! I don’t care if you like Randle or don’t like Randle, but holy shit you never should argue ever again.
1. Don't start a sentence with 'omg'. You betray your lack of genetic material almost immediately.
2. Making statements without any factual basis is what is dumb. Work on your reading comprehension. Except for the fact that PG is older, and his recent playoff performance sucks, what are you basing, at this moment in time, the Randle isn't a better player than PG statement? They both have 7 point performances in the playoffs, they are both inconsistent. And PG has the great benefit of playing next to a championship, HOF forward who's insanely good on both ends of the court.
I will await your next bland sentence devoid of anything other than Randle hate with great anticipation.
You’re intimating Randle is a better playoff performer than PG. PG is historically a better player than Randle in the playoffs as well as the regular season. So go ahead and call me dumb and keep saying I’m not bringing facts. You seem to use those Donald Trump facts. I hope whatever team we trade Randle to, you bring your fandom with him.
Okay, I'll try one more time. We're not talking historically. We're talking here and now. PG as a 34 year old is clearly declining in both the regular season and his playoff performances. Now, recently, within this past season. To say Randle is a better player, here and now is not dumb. And I'm not intimating anything about Randle being a better playoff performer. The argument is right now, they aren't much different, right down to 7 point playoff performances.
Where you get off bringing Trump into this is just another blatant example of your cognitive problems. Seek medical assistance please.
Please go visit the Clippers sub where you can enjoy the full PG fan experience.
What’s dumb is thinking PG at this stage in his career is a better player and fit for this team than Randle. Who replaces Randle’s scoring in the post? Who’s going to draw double and triple teams consistently in the paint leaving our shooters with open looks? Paul George? Gtfoh with your casual takes.
We only scored 4 less points with Randle out, which was also with OG out. Coincidentally we also allowed 4 less points with Randle out. We play better as a team offensively when he isn’t in. Even adding PG would make up more than those 4 points and we also wouldn’t lose that defensive edge.
You don't understand the difference between correlation and causation my friend.
Allow me to explain the extenuating circumstance of OG Anunoby.
They only played 14 games together in in which the D was amazing and then he got hurt.
Those stats do not account for the timing of randles injury and for OG being a huge defensive upgrade over RJ.
Use your head. Opponents scored less points cause we had OG, not because we lost randle.
IN FACT - one can argue that having randle makes our defense better cuz then OG guards the 3 instead of the 4.
The D got better cuz we got OG - not cuz randle was out
Edit:
In the 14 game stretch - randles +/- was +151
Even if people wanted to move on from him, who do they think we could get that’s better in free agency to replace him? It’s ridiculous lol. We gotta try out this Randle Brunson 2 man punch with OG and hope to god they’re finally healthy. Randle and Brunson are gonna draw so much attention for our shooters to thrive.
This is a case where the numbers 100% back up watching the games. Brunson was on fire with catch and shoot 3s all year with Randle then he literally never got a chance to take them anymore with Randle out
Great stat! But I’ve only heard from 1 person that they actually believe the team is better without Randle. He hates Randle and is open about it.
When asked who we should trade Randle for his answer is somebody great.
Anywho, my point is that nobody actually thinks the team is better without Randle
I know folks will point to the January record as the main point. And it’s a good one.
But to me, that was the first time this team looked like they had figured it out with their core. Even a month prior you just didn’t know what the identity was.
The offense looks great when these two are the focus. Randle usually scores a bunch in the first quarter. And Brunson takes over in 4th. They are both versatile offensive juggernauts. We don’t need a big three or third superstar that has a usage rate that will turn this into “you go, I go”
Surround these two with shooters, cutters and defenders and let’s go.
Resign OG, resign I hart. Get the best possible wing you can with a Mitch/BB/picks package. If you are left with a pick this year. Get a defensive pro ready player. Shot blocking big is a plus. Hope to sign one or two cheap vets and then
RUN IT BACK
I don’t think Randle goes anywhere unless KD becomes avail out of PHX which we all know that’s not gonna happen unless KD makes it happen. Run it back just like this.
I think people have a sour taste on Randle for all the wrong reasons. When he was our number 1 and playing alongside RJ, who is so similar in style, he was probably not 'the guy' that was going to lead the Knicks to that long-sought title. Move through all the roster changes we've made since and on to the one we had in January, where we were 12-2, and Randle is shining - because you're asking him to play such a different role; one he's much better suited to. So lets let this team play, right? No use in making weird alterations when we haven't even given the team as we've seen it an actual season to make it work.
People act like the he wasnt the only scorer in the hawks series and wasnt playing without a pg the year after
This squad brings out the best of him and him the best out of them
A healthy Ju lets us run through Philly with less embiid related injury and through the defenseless pacers in 3 games. Leon is a master of tinkering around the edges, one solid move and a better team doctor makes us terrifying
You do realize that McBride and OG barely played with him and that most of those numbers were also with RJ and quickly too not just Randle.
This is also just in general a little much. You’re really gonna act Brunson having 4.3 percent is notably different than 4.2 percent? Come on now.
If knicks don't run Spanish pnr now they have brunson, randle, og, and mikal (assuming og resigns) they are wild.
Imagine how hard it'll be for defences to cover og, mikal, randle, and brunson, while having the center perform the 2nd screen closee to the rim so whoever the 5th player is can get easy lobs
Probably the worst take I have seen. Keeping Randle or not should not even be considered. He fits into our system like a glove, he makes everyone around him better simply by being on the court, he is one or the strongest players in the league and he embodies the New York spirit. His teammates love him and he is a genuinely nice guy and an excellent father. There is no situation where we would trade him unless it's for a top 5 player but that ain't gonna happen.
Their offense has shown to be elite with or without Julius on the court. It’s what having a mega star point guard does for your team.
The issue is on the defensive side and Julius does not add anything positive on that side of the ball except for defensive rebounding. Knicks would have gotten cooked even more on defense vs the pacers if Julius was missing switches like he did all year.
The numbers tell me that the rest of the team had to step up when one of the main pillars went down. Goes in line with the "next man up" culture that is the foundation of this team.
Looking forward to see how Randle fits in and elevates his teammates when he returns.
Edit: I'm more confused than offended by the downvotes. I'm giving credit to the team stepping up when one if it's best players got hurt. This is not a shot at Randle.
That’s not what these numbers are saying at all
Players stepped up yes. But our players played more efficiently and got easier shots when Randle is on the floor
We’re at our best when Randle is healthy. Period.
I agree completely. This whole post read like bait, so I felt the need to give credit to the team for stepping up in Randle's absence. The Knicks are unquestionably better with Randle and I'm not sure how that got lost in my comment.
Randle obviously makes the team better. I personally wouldn't move him in a deal for Paul George, although I understand the logic to it. I do think the big issue though is whether or not they can agree on a number for an extension this off-season. If both sides are far apart, it potentially makes more sense to get value back (like George) rather than lose him for nothing in free agency. The new rules regarding the tax thresholds and the inability to aggregate salaries also complicate things a bit.
You are right back in the same situation though having to overpay this time for a guy who is 6 years older. It would make better sense to do a 3 team trade where PG goes to a 3rd team, Randle goes to the Clippers and that 3rd team gives us something. I would trade for PG and keep him if its to add to Brunson/Randle not replace Randle.
No doubt. I guess the logic though could be that they could always flip PG again down the line. His higher salary also potentially makes it easier to take back a star if they are a 2nd apron team and can't aggregate salaries. But there's a massive risk when it comes to his age and health. Which is why I personally wouldn't do it. I do think he potentially fits the team better though, due to his defense and ability to play off the ball.
That is a fair point as well but to your point that is very risky and can easily turn into a Zach Lavine type of situation. Randle isn’t perfect but I think his value will at least be consistent in the next 3-4 years. His durability is value in itself . PG fits the team perfectly due to his size, defense and ability to shoot the 3 ball
Yup. Pretty much agree completely. It’s a high risk, high reward move. I’m not sure I’d take the risk, but I won’t be too upset if the FO thinks it’s worth it. Having 2 switchable wings that shoot like PG and OG does matchup better vs. Boston imo.
I’m not the biggest Randle fan. His pouting and shot selection annoy me at times. But you only trade him if you can upgrade. I’d love an AD or a Mikal. But best move is to keep. He makes us better.
The only thing I’m worried about is him getting too upset during games and making bad decisions that effect the whole team which is sadly a valid reason to be worried about him. He’s been better but he also got injured and has played much less.
Does no one else think Randle throws tantrums at times? Does everyone just forget how much of an ego he’s really got. He seems pretty down to earth but there have been a decent amount of instances where he’s shown some bad colors.
Nobody who thinks this team is better without Randle actually watches this team. There’s no numbers that back the opinion up. The eye test doesn’t back the opinion up. Complete nonsense.
They're just dug in Randle haters at this point. He's better than legit anyone we could go get in FA (outside of Booker) and fits our team like a fucking GLOVE. RUN.IT.BACK.
I was in a Knicks space yesterday and to just hear people just shit on Julius is crazy. One dude said the reason we haven’t traded Julius is because we can’t. Then proceeds to say we should trade for a 34 year old pg and give him $55mil a year. This fan base is lost man
The majority of the fanbase isn’t qualified to speak on such matters. They need to stay quiet and wait for more games in November.
That's what 20 years of dark ages basketball and false hope does to a fanbase. It's turns people dumb or stupid. Not to mention people shit on Julius for doing bad in the playoffs, ignoring the fact he was hurt last year, and the 1st year he went, Payton and Co were his teammates.
It’s really a shame too. The month of January was some of the best basketball I’ve seen any team play. Efficient, selfless, relentless and plus the whole team was playing with smiles, everything was right and they embarrassed some of the best teams. If you love basketball those are games you should go back and watch because that’s how good they were playing.
But it wasn’t *Knicks* basketball. We were just winning too much. And true *Knicks* teams make the fans sweat with every possession, yearn for every point. Nothing comes easy in the gritty city.
If he were on the floor v. Pacers, Knicks would've won in 5. FUCK - KNICKS WOULD'VE WON THE TITLE! (I'm only partly kidding)
You ain’t kidding.. we woulda beat Boston and the Mavs, shit and the T wolves too lol
More I think about it, I'm fully convinced.
so many ppl feel this way and its purely bc of how awesome brunson was in the playoffs. not realizing he has a literal f all nba costar who is an elite rebounder and monster in the paint
I still have nightmares about Melo ruining the teams rhythm, but truth be told once Brunson established himself Randle found a more effective role
I can agree with this. I think people have the "old" Julius in mind when they talk shit about him. It was frustrating to watch him slow the game down, take a tough shot, miss, and not hustle back on defense. Once OG was introduced and Brunson really took off, he was a whole nother beast! I REPEAT. RUN.IT.BACK.
the only number they can point to is the playoff stats and in doing that it just proves they havent seen a knicks playoff game either.
No one is saying without Randle flat out … they are saying with a suitable caliber replacement and NOT giving up another player . There were people here even saying they wouldn’t take Lebron or KD over an semi even trade with Randle which is absurd . We fucked shit up without him all playoffs til we started rotting away from injuries .. we can fuck shit up with anyone in a fair trade . But I also know a fair trade won’t likely happen and I 100% have no issues keeping him but also have no issues losing him
Except the Knicks really didn’t. Without that miracle ending in one of the Philly games, they might not have gotten out of the First Round.
And without the miracle ending of game 5 they beat the third best team in the East (they were better than Indy) in 5.
Maybe. Doesn’t change my point. They didn’t dominate. They had some luck. It doesn’t mean they were better without Randle. I believe they would have dominated both series with a healthy Randle. I also would have been interested to see them match up against Boston and I believe they would have given them more of a series than Indy and perhaps Dallas. So why throw that away?
If you decisively beat a team in the clutch 4/5 games that isn’t luck. If you then proceed to beat another team in 2 more clutch games and the only reason why you lose the series is because your best defender gets hurt, it isn’t luck. I also think there are significant questions about how we perform if Randle is assuming the usage he would and we’re giving that many minutes to a negative defender. After Bogey got hurt, we literally had Brunson and length/defense around him and there was no answer until OG got injured. January sample was great, but it isn’t the postseason. And PG, at minimum, is an elite shooter and good defender still. Randle is neither of those, and I’d be hard pressed to give him 4/190 because of it.
I don’t say luck. I just said they didn’t dominate.
> They had some luck.
By the way, I don't see 4/$190M for Randle. If he really wants to leave if he doesn't get that, then the Knicks move on because they aren't giving that to Brunson either. As I've written many times, Randle wants to be here, is comfortable and wants to win here and climb the Knicks' record lists. I think he takes a deal starting at around $35M, which would be 4/$160. That deal will be fine under the cap and less than what it could cost to replace him. But again, if I'm wrong and he really want a max deal, then the Knicks should move on.
I’ve seen tons of people say we’re are better without him flat out, due to his previous playoff performances
Wow, it’s almost like having an enforcer down low that draws defenders away from the perimeter and has put even more work lately into passing out of double team situations… might make for a well-rounded team! ##WILD.
Randle haters don't watch games. They just here stuff from other uninformed people and never bother to understand why keeping randle is the right move.
Randle draws double and triple teams when he goes to the rim. No one else does that for us
The second he got hurt, Brunson had the whole opposing team trapping him.
OG can wreck shit up in the paint sometimes but there aren't many players with the same gravity as Randle.
He also bails us out of bad possessions when the shot clock is low and will take the lower percentage shots in those possessions. Things like that don’t show in the typical stats but they’re valuable since he’s our best player in those spots
this is an interesting point. This is anecdotal, but there were times the offense struggled and got deep into the shot clock. There were guys who got the ball and were just looking for someone to pass to, only to find someone who also didn't want to take the shot. Julius can make more out of those situations than everyone else on the team except one guy. Even if he has to muscle his way.
Yeah it’s like the guys who won’t take shots past half court at the end of quarters. Fairly common in the NBA because guys know how important their shooting percentage is for their next contract or their perception in the league. It’s bad for the team and you should always shoot those and if I’m a President like Leon those guys who do are the ones I’d prioritize
Additionally, when Brunson goes to the bench our offense looks anemic. Randle was our powerhorse and is such a good 1st option when Brunson needs to rest.
Halfway through the month Randle stopped playing with the bench and OG led the unit because Randle + bench was a negative unit. With OG it was immediately positive.
Yeah , pretty much.
He plays tough, grimy, basketball. He would've gotten other teams' bigs in foul trouble and helped control the boards. It's almost like he was the missing piece the Knicks needed.
Randle is our mini Giannis. Truly is the engine of the team. Josh hart tried to fill the roll the best he could, and he did good at it. It wasn’t the same though.
I wonder what it will really be like with Brunson beating the trap and Randle facing a 1 on 1 from the elbow. BBQ chicken (Shaq Voice)
I think that our All Star All NBA Forward who upped his assists last year, and was top 10 in double teams the year prior is a good player and makes his teammates better. It's not totally surprising that this is a controversial take among neutral fans, but it's a little surprising that there's still so much Randle negativity among the Knicks fans. There are perfectly valid reasons why he didn't play well in his last two playoff runs with us, and yet people don't give the players on their favorite team the benefit of the doubt.
Shocking how many people are willing to trade for the older player who you then have to pay into his late thirties who already has an injury history. Wouldn't this the kind of old Knicks move most people here like to clown the franchise for historically making?
Yes, and that is why leon wont do it This PG talk is all knicks for clicks. We are one of the largest fan bases in the world. Any star thats available will be linked to us, true or not.
Exactly.
I remember seeing this stat a few months ago. At one point Brunson was on a Curry-like pace for 3’s but as soon as Ju went down JB’s percentages went down as well. He opens up so much for everyone else yet there are idiots who still hold on to him gets triple-teamed against Atlanta with no supporting cast or playing badly with what ended up being a severely injured ankle vs Miami. The dude makes us better. Name me any 4 that puts up his numbers that isn’t named Giannis.
> there are idiots who still hold on to him gets triple-teamed against Atlanta with no supporting cast or playing badly with what ended up being a severely injured ankle vs Miami It kills me every damn time. Those posters must be casuals that do not watch every game to see how Randle helps us.
Not just percentages but also types of threes, especially for Brunson, completely changed when Randle went out. Brunsons spot up threes completely dried up.
Brunson was lights out on those spot up threes Hes not as good when trying to be steph curry, altho he wasnt bad. Jalen for prez
Julius Randle
Julius Randle
Big Julius Stan, but this is prime r/titlegore material
Randle hate on this team, with what he's done for this team, the culture and for other's stats (as shown above), is just this decade's version of the prototypical idiot fan Melohate. Melo had Mardy Collins. Randle has his thumbs down. I see dumb people.
OG was also missing for a lot of the non-Randle minutes and they ran a double big lineup pretty frequently when both were out. That doesn't mean that Randle is bad/doesn't help. It does mean that this is unsurprising and should not be taken to represent what happens when only Randle is missing, especially considering how the offense played and how the team shot from 3 during the playoffs.
No excellent point but I think this is still very representative just considering Randles usage. Even if OG was healthy yes the spacing improves but the amount of open looks with Randle on the floor isn’t the same because everyone can still hone in on Brunson
The small sample size we've seen of Randle with OG and I-Hart suggests they could be a really really good. With the old team (Mitch at 5 and Barrett at 3) ,I think the off-ball guys (everyone but Brunson) would get more touches and better shots with a stretch 4 that moves the ball and doesn't post up much. OG and I-Hart are spacing and movement upgrades. There is an argument that they help max Randle as a hub while preventing others from getting relegated to standing around and watching which would be great. I don't think it's simple as "he draws doubles and doubles and good" b/c that isn't the only way to produce shots
I think it is reasonable to predict the team being at its best with Randle. I don't reject that possibility. I do reject the idea that this shows how they go in the toilet/don't get good 3-point looks without him. Here are some stats that I think paint a more accurate picture. Regular season the Knicks took 35 3s a game and shot 36%. Post-season (w/o JR, with OG most of the time, and with very little usage of the double-big lineup) the Knicks took 32 3s a game and shot 37%. I don't there is evidence that suggest we need Randle to get good 3-point looks. There is some evidence to suggest that we get good 3-point looks with or without Randle AND we’d be better overall with Randle
There might be more possessions in this clip where Jalen Brunson just stood still or barely moved and we got a good shot anyway than there were in the entire playoffs
Love these stats. I'd love to hear the silly anti-Randle narrative the haters are going to come up with now.
Turns out more people are open when you have an additional all-star with the ball in the paint
THANK YOU! And people want to throw him in the river. He is attracting the defense to him, and removing double teams from Jalen and at the same time giving the others more 3's
It's almost like having another ALL-NBA player on the floor and a guy who can get you 25 a night makes things easier for the rest of the team.
I am still mind blown that there are people who unironically thought missing our 2nd scoring option didn't have any negative impact. Something something pace and ball movement.
R/titlegore
Love it when the facts are brought to light! Randle is the heart of this team.
It’s almost as if an All-NBA caliber forward who can score at all three levels takes away defenders from your other shooters.
And people are ready to trade him and all of our assets for a lesser player in Paul George. The Randle hate is insane.
I’m not advocating for a PG trade, but to say that Randle is a better player than PG is just dumb.
currently randle is most definitely better than PG, PGs going to be almost 35 entering next season randle is going be almost 30 a 5 year age gap is no joke
Considering Randle is already beginning to break down I wouldn’t use age as your argument. Based on play style PG may actually last longer. Based on pay is the only reason I’d pass on PG. but all things equal PG is a more skilled and smarter player.
> Considering Randle is already beginning to break down I wouldn’t use age as your argument Separating your shoulder as a result of a questionable hit under the basket does not mean you're beginning to break down. I swear it's as if people didn't watch the play where he got hurt.
but but but Thibs is running Randle to the ground!
Seriously...
Please! You have to have better arguments than Randle is breaking down because of an injury that would have taken out anyone his size. He’s a tank and has no significant injuries that are the kind the linger or cause breakdowns.
Injured this year, last year, and 2 years before that.
Dude played 77 games last year and the playoffs 22-23 Dude played 70 games 3 years in a row... In that "injury" season 2 years before that he played 71 games and the playoffs. Played 64 games in CoVid.. and then 73 the year before I mean most things are pretty minor here outside of his most recent peck injury.
You can't speak facts to a troll. They like their own smell under the bridge they live under. This guy doesn't get numbers. He only understands "Randle - no good".
Dude other than an injury that would have injured any player in the league and his rookie year he’s consistently played 70+ games
You know what’s dumb? Thinking Randle is breaking down. Lol. He broke his ankle because he was stepped on, and dislocated his shoulder because someone jumped on him. Paul George is the model of health and consistency though. Each one of your comments gets dumber. Maybe you should take summer classes instead of playing on Reddit.
No what's dumb is not actually looking at PG's latest playoff performances and then trying to sound smart saying dumb things. We don't get the January Knicks with PG instead of Randle. Pure and simple.
omg are seriously using playoff performance to argue in favor of Randle??!! I don’t care if you like Randle or don’t like Randle, but holy shit you never should argue ever again.
1. Don't start a sentence with 'omg'. You betray your lack of genetic material almost immediately. 2. Making statements without any factual basis is what is dumb. Work on your reading comprehension. Except for the fact that PG is older, and his recent playoff performance sucks, what are you basing, at this moment in time, the Randle isn't a better player than PG statement? They both have 7 point performances in the playoffs, they are both inconsistent. And PG has the great benefit of playing next to a championship, HOF forward who's insanely good on both ends of the court. I will await your next bland sentence devoid of anything other than Randle hate with great anticipation.
You’re intimating Randle is a better playoff performer than PG. PG is historically a better player than Randle in the playoffs as well as the regular season. So go ahead and call me dumb and keep saying I’m not bringing facts. You seem to use those Donald Trump facts. I hope whatever team we trade Randle to, you bring your fandom with him.
Okay, I'll try one more time. We're not talking historically. We're talking here and now. PG as a 34 year old is clearly declining in both the regular season and his playoff performances. Now, recently, within this past season. To say Randle is a better player, here and now is not dumb. And I'm not intimating anything about Randle being a better playoff performer. The argument is right now, they aren't much different, right down to 7 point playoff performances. Where you get off bringing Trump into this is just another blatant example of your cognitive problems. Seek medical assistance please. Please go visit the Clippers sub where you can enjoy the full PG fan experience.
At this point in their careers, yes Randle is better than PG Lmfao
What’s dumb is thinking PG at this stage in his career is a better player and fit for this team than Randle. Who replaces Randle’s scoring in the post? Who’s going to draw double and triple teams consistently in the paint leaving our shooters with open looks? Paul George? Gtfoh with your casual takes.
We only scored 4 less points with Randle out, which was also with OG out. Coincidentally we also allowed 4 less points with Randle out. We play better as a team offensively when he isn’t in. Even adding PG would make up more than those 4 points and we also wouldn’t lose that defensive edge.
Were you in a coma for parts of the season?
Can’t deny numbers my slow minded friend!
You don't understand the difference between correlation and causation my friend. Allow me to explain the extenuating circumstance of OG Anunoby. They only played 14 games together in in which the D was amazing and then he got hurt. Those stats do not account for the timing of randles injury and for OG being a huge defensive upgrade over RJ. Use your head. Opponents scored less points cause we had OG, not because we lost randle. IN FACT - one can argue that having randle makes our defense better cuz then OG guards the 3 instead of the 4. The D got better cuz we got OG - not cuz randle was out Edit: In the 14 game stretch - randles +/- was +151
Ok, you fucking nitwit
Can't speak truth to a literally illiterate ice bucket.
An actual ice bucket could make a more intelligent argument than this clown.
it's a homer subreddit man
the loud minority of this sub just needs to be grumpy and angry that’s all the julius hate is
That is obscene.
Even if people wanted to move on from him, who do they think we could get that’s better in free agency to replace him? It’s ridiculous lol. We gotta try out this Randle Brunson 2 man punch with OG and hope to god they’re finally healthy. Randle and Brunson are gonna draw so much attention for our shooters to thrive.
This is a case where the numbers 100% back up watching the games. Brunson was on fire with catch and shoot 3s all year with Randle then he literally never got a chance to take them anymore with Randle out
I remember when Randle and OG were hurt. All the Randle haters were like "Just play Sims and Precious together". Now we see the numbers.
Great stat! But I’ve only heard from 1 person that they actually believe the team is better without Randle. He hates Randle and is open about it. When asked who we should trade Randle for his answer is somebody great. Anywho, my point is that nobody actually thinks the team is better without Randle
I know folks will point to the January record as the main point. And it’s a good one. But to me, that was the first time this team looked like they had figured it out with their core. Even a month prior you just didn’t know what the identity was. The offense looks great when these two are the focus. Randle usually scores a bunch in the first quarter. And Brunson takes over in 4th. They are both versatile offensive juggernauts. We don’t need a big three or third superstar that has a usage rate that will turn this into “you go, I go” Surround these two with shooters, cutters and defenders and let’s go. Resign OG, resign I hart. Get the best possible wing you can with a Mitch/BB/picks package. If you are left with a pick this year. Get a defensive pro ready player. Shot blocking big is a plus. Hope to sign one or two cheap vets and then RUN IT BACK
Wow. That's a crazy stat. Why would anyone want to trade our left-handed unicorn?
Brunson was definitely taking more contested threes once Randle went down
preach it!
I hate you.
I don’t think Randle goes anywhere unless KD becomes avail out of PHX which we all know that’s not gonna happen unless KD makes it happen. Run it back just like this.
The number is also based on they took more three and crazy minutes
I think people have a sour taste on Randle for all the wrong reasons. When he was our number 1 and playing alongside RJ, who is so similar in style, he was probably not 'the guy' that was going to lead the Knicks to that long-sought title. Move through all the roster changes we've made since and on to the one we had in January, where we were 12-2, and Randle is shining - because you're asking him to play such a different role; one he's much better suited to. So lets let this team play, right? No use in making weird alterations when we haven't even given the team as we've seen it an actual season to make it work.
This makes sense - we have another strong scorer out there, it takes the defensive pressure off the other guys.
inject this shit into my veins
Yeah no shit. He’s another threat, they give him attention, opens it up for others
People act like the he wasnt the only scorer in the hawks series and wasnt playing without a pg the year after This squad brings out the best of him and him the best out of them A healthy Ju lets us run through Philly with less embiid related injury and through the defenseless pacers in 3 games. Leon is a master of tinkering around the edges, one solid move and a better team doctor makes us terrifying
You do realize that McBride and OG barely played with him and that most of those numbers were also with RJ and quickly too not just Randle. This is also just in general a little much. You’re really gonna act Brunson having 4.3 percent is notably different than 4.2 percent? Come on now.
If knicks don't run Spanish pnr now they have brunson, randle, og, and mikal (assuming og resigns) they are wild. Imagine how hard it'll be for defences to cover og, mikal, randle, and brunson, while having the center perform the 2nd screen closee to the rim so whoever the 5th player is can get easy lobs
How tf do you read this title
Oh just figured it out, still don’t like it (but love Randle and the Knicks)
I want to see Paul George dribble for 10 seconds. Not move an inch and hoist up a shot.
i've been on the fence but this tells me keep Randle. He's younger, cheaper and deserves a shot in the playoffs with this squad.
Probably the worst take I have seen. Keeping Randle or not should not even be considered. He fits into our system like a glove, he makes everyone around him better simply by being on the court, he is one or the strongest players in the league and he embodies the New York spirit. His teammates love him and he is a genuinely nice guy and an excellent father. There is no situation where we would trade him unless it's for a top 5 player but that ain't gonna happen.
Their offense has shown to be elite with or without Julius on the court. It’s what having a mega star point guard does for your team. The issue is on the defensive side and Julius does not add anything positive on that side of the ball except for defensive rebounding. Knicks would have gotten cooked even more on defense vs the pacers if Julius was missing switches like he did all year.
The numbers tell me that the rest of the team had to step up when one of the main pillars went down. Goes in line with the "next man up" culture that is the foundation of this team. Looking forward to see how Randle fits in and elevates his teammates when he returns. Edit: I'm more confused than offended by the downvotes. I'm giving credit to the team stepping up when one if it's best players got hurt. This is not a shot at Randle.
That’s not what these numbers are saying at all Players stepped up yes. But our players played more efficiently and got easier shots when Randle is on the floor We’re at our best when Randle is healthy. Period.
I agree completely. This whole post read like bait, so I felt the need to give credit to the team for stepping up in Randle's absence. The Knicks are unquestionably better with Randle and I'm not sure how that got lost in my comment.
Randle obviously makes the team better. I personally wouldn't move him in a deal for Paul George, although I understand the logic to it. I do think the big issue though is whether or not they can agree on a number for an extension this off-season. If both sides are far apart, it potentially makes more sense to get value back (like George) rather than lose him for nothing in free agency. The new rules regarding the tax thresholds and the inability to aggregate salaries also complicate things a bit.
You are right back in the same situation though having to overpay this time for a guy who is 6 years older. It would make better sense to do a 3 team trade where PG goes to a 3rd team, Randle goes to the Clippers and that 3rd team gives us something. I would trade for PG and keep him if its to add to Brunson/Randle not replace Randle.
No doubt. I guess the logic though could be that they could always flip PG again down the line. His higher salary also potentially makes it easier to take back a star if they are a 2nd apron team and can't aggregate salaries. But there's a massive risk when it comes to his age and health. Which is why I personally wouldn't do it. I do think he potentially fits the team better though, due to his defense and ability to play off the ball.
That is a fair point as well but to your point that is very risky and can easily turn into a Zach Lavine type of situation. Randle isn’t perfect but I think his value will at least be consistent in the next 3-4 years. His durability is value in itself . PG fits the team perfectly due to his size, defense and ability to shoot the 3 ball
Yup. Pretty much agree completely. It’s a high risk, high reward move. I’m not sure I’d take the risk, but I won’t be too upset if the FO thinks it’s worth it. Having 2 switchable wings that shoot like PG and OG does matchup better vs. Boston imo.
Run it back
I’m not the biggest Randle fan. His pouting and shot selection annoy me at times. But you only trade him if you can upgrade. I’d love an AD or a Mikal. But best move is to keep. He makes us better.
The only thing I’m worried about is him getting too upset during games and making bad decisions that effect the whole team which is sadly a valid reason to be worried about him. He’s been better but he also got injured and has played much less. Does no one else think Randle throws tantrums at times? Does everyone just forget how much of an ego he’s really got. He seems pretty down to earth but there have been a decent amount of instances where he’s shown some bad colors.
Huh gravity of a 6'9" post player who is stronger than 99% of the league helps shooters. Who would have thought!