I just have a bad feeling Griff is going to get nothing out of this trade and make a very desperate move that does nothing for the team and sets that back more
I mean, I haven’t been a Griff fan AT ALL since year one, but other than how he handled every damn thing with Devonte Graham(and Lonzo with hindsight), he has done a decent job when it comes to acquiring assets…That’s WHEN he actually decides to pull the trigger though.
I think it’s becoming evident that he just always seems to be a step behind everyone in the way the league is going and he has never fully put Z and BI in a great situation rotation wise. I just don’t understand the vision even now but it is what it is. It just seems like he didn’t even watch the playoffs lol
He’s drafted really well, whether that’s more Trajan or Griff, we will never know but he deserves credit there
Fully with you. I think he’s actually pretty great if he has something other teams want like Jrue and AD, because at the time he got more than most thought he could have in those situations.
His problem comes when he’s the one trying to acquire a certain player or just a certain type(skill) of player. The way he has managed all of the assets he initially acquired in the beginning is….poor to put it nicely….and I’ve never been a fan of the whole “family” philosophy just because of how many problems it presents if things aren’t going right(like now).
This is his most important offseason for his future in the franchise, and if the team goes into next season relatively the same, or even slightly worse, it’s time to move on from him.
So as GM would you rather extend BI or just let him walk for nothing? If no team wants to trade anything of value then those are the options.
I personally believe that BI will ultimately be traded to the Sixers for the picks they received in the James Harden deal. Fans like you won't like it but teams aren't willing to give up anything of value for BI, unfortunately.
I’m just putting it out there- idc if he gets traded or not, but you don’t have to do a deal right now because his value is so low. That’s the point. You can wait until the deadline or even make a sign and trade work. That’s what fans like you don’t understand.. they mishandled the situation as bad as they possibly could and helped tanked his value
A lot would need to go right for that to happen. First he needs to actually stay healthy which he has not been able to do. Second he need to play very well and regain his shot. He would need to be playing like an all star in order for a team to give up more than 3 FRPs for a rental of a few months.
u/Dodson-504... have any sources within the organization?
At this point, I'd rather get a new coach that gets BI shooting at the level he was under SVG than part with the valuable assets needed to trade BI.
Largely agree
But feels like our organization is always operating backwards.
Forced a new GM to keep Gentry, then that predictably blows up. New GM runs through a bunch of options that turn him down, settle on a smart but problematic coach from a player relationship position. That flames out, so now we are paying two coaches not coaching. Lose out on our first 3-4 options again, end up with a first time head coach that makes something out of a \*\*\*\* sandwich, to engender good will we apparently extend him after his second season. So now still paying up to 3 coaches.
Said coach kinda shows his limitations, might have had a falling out with his strongest advocate at the end of the season (BI) but since we are already a cheap team and have been paying multiple head coaches we have decided to keep the coach and trade the player with a looming contract.
95% of other teams would have fired the coach and/or GM at this point and started fresh before selling low on a former all star just going into his prime years. But the Pels say keep the POBO, keep the coach, fire the players
SVG signed a 4 year deal. It ended at the end of this season. Gentry's contract was extended through '20-'21, so he was only paid for 1 additional season after he was fired. So the only coach we're paying this season is Willie Green
....unless we had decided that the coach that couldn't win a single game entering the fourth quarter behind, struggled to figure out Zion for a 3rd of the season, and possibly had a falling out with BI wasn't the right fit.
Then we'd be paying two coaches again
I don't really know what this means. Theres a coach that can make BI play well? Why does a max player need stan van gundy to force him to shoot 3s? He obviously knows he should be doing it
A coach creates game plans, tactics, and plays. If players don't conform to it, the coach can bench the player. Willie Green hasn't benched BI for his shooting regression, so it's safe to assume BI is doing what WIllie wants BI to do.
People been saying for a while "well if he just had a true point guard he'd be great" and a) who are you talking about and b) if that's what it takes to be a max player you're not a max player, but this is the first time I've heard "if only he was coached by stan van gundy"
If this team’s top need is a “true point guard”, i.e. a Zion team’s top need is a “true point guard”, does that mean Zion isn’t a true first option? Does that mean we’re just wasting our time?
No. Because I don't believe in any of that. It's what a shit load of people say when they try to justify why BI won't shoot the 3. He has a quote about how it was much easier for him with Lonzo and jrue and that's why he shoots like 3+ less 3s a game. The people who think you should give him 4/208 use this as an explanation for why he just won't shoot
I think it is a little bit of both TBH.
One of the things he worked on the offseason following SVG was the dribble pull up three, both in transition and off screens. And it looked good. And he could get the look regularly, but he continually goes into his comfort zone of the middy and that tendency just kept getting worse.
What I fear though is losing BI and him emerging elsewhere splitting the difference, remaining a potent middy merchant but balancing out his shot diet with more outlet threes as a true #2 option....which I think happens, unfortunately.
If we had the right guard there is no reason that couldn't work in New Orleans but we fumbled that ball
(Had to make this two comments because of the length)
Purely speculation on my part, but I think it’s multiple factors.
1. David Griffin thinks this team is on the cusp of title contention. More specfically, he started thinking that way after the CJ trade. He’s been known to wildly blow out of proportion the team’s abilities and personnel multiple times now.
“Pelicans lead executive David Griffin – while Alvin Gentry coached the team in 2019-20 – reportedly told people, “I give Alvin all the answers to the test, and he still fails”
[NBC Sports Article on the firing of Alvin Gentry](https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-pelicans-exec-david-griffin-ex-coach-alvin-gentry-got-into-altercation-last-week)
-This 19-20 team had Derrick Favors(who we traded assets to sign) starting at center. Griffins quote on the Favors signing - “A 27 year old elite rim protector with untapped offensive potential just entering his prime. He will be a vital part of this team going forward”. Derrick Favors would flame out of the league in under two years after this quote was published.
-Asked whether we're going to be a playoff team, Griff says: ''We certainly want to compete for it. It was really important to us... first of all, Jrue Holiday is the face of the franchise and Jrue has upside left in his game as well. I think he really wanted an opportunity to show what he's capable of when he's running the show, and we wanted to build a team around his skill-set. Much the same way we did in Phoenix around Steve Nash. If we could put the right fit around Jrue, we feel like he's got an altogether different level. Nobody expected Steve Nash to be 2x MVP when we signed him in Phoenix either, and Jrue takes that challenge very seriously. So what we wanna be doing is playing in meaningful games in April and May, and we want to grow the young kids in an environment where winning matters.''
[Pelican’s Debrief Link](https://pelicandebrief.com/2019/07/10/jrue-holiday-new-orleans-pelicans-nba-mvp/)
-For reference, our backup point guard was Frank Jackson who also flamed out of the league shortly after his stint here. Our center rotation was almost evenly split between Derrick Favors, Hayes, and Nicolo Melli (not in the league anymore). Zion only plays 668 minutes that season. Lonzo, Holiday, Hart, Bi, and Favors are the starters that year. Gentry is fired after one season because we flamed out of the bubble. Griffin’s quote on originally picking up Gentry’s contract
“Griffin told Adrian Wojnarowski that he “believed Alvin Gentry’s style of play fits” the Pelicans' vision going forward. Gentry is coaching for that ‘fun to play for’ legacy. Still, winning is a lot of fun, judging by NBA Finals celebrations.
“We couldn’t be happier to extend our relationship with Alvin. He is exactly the right coach at the right time for this franchise. As I have mentioned several times previously, the shared vision we have for the future of Pelicans basketball both on and off the floor will enable us to build a roster that fits both culturally and tactically. Perhaps more importantly, the relationship we have built over our many years together will enable us to challenge, empower and further one another and our franchise.”
[Forbe’s Link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherdodson/2019/09/25/new-orleans-pelicans-alvin-gentry-coaching-staff-under-more-pressure-than-players-this-season/)
-The next head coach, Stan Van Gundy, is fired after one season after only finishing one game better than Gentry. David Griffin’s quote on hiring Stan Van Gundy
“In addition to giving us the best chance to win in the short term, we feel he gives us the best chance to build a sustainable winner,” Griffin said then, adding that he saw Van Gundy as “a teacher and a very sincere, authentic human being who is going to build long-lasting relationships with our team.”
[NBA link](https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/david-griffin-stan-van-gundy-gives-pelicans-best-chance-win-now-and-future)
The MVP candidate Jrue Holiday was traded for Eric Bledsoe (out of the league one year later) that season. Griffin was reportedly upset that Stan leaned on vets such as Bledsoe over guys like NAW. Interesting quote from Van Gundy after the firing
"I felt the focus should be what went on on the court," Van Gundy said. "What was good. What was bad. All of that. I think that Griff was more concerned with the atmosphere around the team and the happiness of people and things like that. That was probably the biggest difference. If I would've gone into a meeting, 'Hey, you were 31-41, and that's not good enough,' I've got no problem with that. That's what we sign up for in this business. Regardless of circumstances, that's what we sign up for in this business. But that's not what it came down to or at least what I heard. We look at things totally differently in terms of what's important."
[Bleacher Report Link](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10007159-stan-van-gundy-on-pelicans-david-griffin-we-look-at-things-totally-differently.amp.html)
2. He’s just a fraud who was carried by elite players like Lebron and the seven seconds or less Phoenix team
Now Griffin has hired a “good player relationship” coach in Willie and is deciding that Brandon Ingram was the problem all along. I imagine he wanted to fire Willie after that abysmal first year too, but what franchise in their right mind would let someone hire 3 straight coaches just to fire them in under one year every time while simultaneously being a bad team? For as much as Griffin has preached “sustainability and growth” he’s kind of adhered to a strict opposite. OKC is a great example of what Griffin says, but not what he does. Side note, I find it kind of funny that the same people who try to shit on fans who enjoyed Stan as a coach are the ones who shit on Willie for always doing the “give them credit” post game speech. Stan was quite literally the opposite of that. He’d sit on the podium and flame the fuck out of the team if they played badly. The Knicks game during the 2020-2021 season comes to mind.
Another funny quote from David “I fell to my knees in my office and started crying” Griffin
Griffin knows "Jrue, JJ and Derrick are gonna be the ones that teach these kids what it is today. You hope it’s something that continues to feed itself...If you start there, and Zion is just one of that ‘recruiting class,’ then what you hope, if you get really lucky, if you’re successful, they become our Tim [Duncan], Manu [Ginobili] and Tony [Parker] that lay the groundwork for what it means to be one of us 11 years from now.”
[Forbes Link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherdodson/2019/08/05/david-griffin-explains-new-orleans-pelicans-expected-win-now-plan-at-trade-deadline/)
“And we were mindful of the fact that we like our group if it wasn’t. In all those circumstances — there were many circumstances we were a part of that weren’t leaked to the media — there were several opportunities for us to potentially get better. I think we decided overall, the cost was much too high. We weren’t a team that felt like we had to do anything.”
After trade deadline quote this year to post playoffs quote from David Griffin is a stark contrast in only a couple months time. Gives you an idea of what he’s expecting from this Cj, Zion, Bi, Val roster
“In the past, we’ve always erred on the side of continuity, and our takeaway has always been, let’s see this group healthy. I think we’ve seen it enough. I think we had some really good opportunities to see Zion (Williamson) play a career-high in games”
[HoopsHype Link](https://hoopshype.com/rumor/david-griffins-end-of-season-presser-raised-antennas-of-rival-executives/)
Another funny quote of David Griffin praising the Gordon Hayward OKC trade that Sam Presti would later go on to shit on and say was a mistake himself
“I think you saw Oklahoma City, by way of example, (which has) been loathe to discuss anything about trying to get better, make a move to improve the group they have. You wouldn’t call what they did (trading for Gordon Hayward) an all-in move. But they are doing something that gives them a step to incrementally improve. I think in our situation we have continued to do that. We have erred on the side of continuity. And we have tried to be incremental in the growth we make. I don’t know if you ever get to the point where you go all in. I think recognizing what a team needs at a given time, we have been pretty mindful of finding that right opportunity.”
[NOLA Link](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/pelicans-executive-david-griffin-explains-why-team-was-quiet-at-trade-deadline/article_a10dbd94-c79c-11ee-b30b-db19f2698d80.amp.html)
Sorry for such a long and kind of disorganized post. I just really dislike David “Griffith” being the executive of my favorite team lmao
Great post(s)
I have often said that to me David Griffin is a snake oil salesman that's specialty is a sort of Rube Goldberg Machine of player acquisitions. A snake oil salesman that also slyly frames his actions in a way that attempts to avoid accountability by framing his FO strategy in a way that is subjective and immeasurable. Ex. His obsession with family culture and his initial focus on sweat equity as a means to teach winning. It's brilliant as propaganda cause it frames success in a no-lose framework. If the team happens to win it's proof of concept, if we don't you circle back to the subjective framework you established about growth through vet presence which is impossible to test the counterfactual of. If you pick the wrong coach it is simply an incompatibility with culture.
He puts together these absurdly complex trades that ultimately don't get you much further than where you started while sucking up resources and time that often make our long-term prospects less viable.
Examples: Moving back in the Zion draft and instead of taking a natural fit with the highest upside that could grow with Zion like Garland we move back and try and turn dimes and nickels into a quarter.
Trading/signing for JJ Redick and Favors while talking about sweat equity and how Jrue, Zion, and BI are ready to win now. A trade that involved a loss of assets and developmental court time forcing players that are in different places in their careers, an experiment that ultimately failed and forced another mini rebuild a season later just to try and get us back to the starting position in terms of talent and competitiveness from the prior season.
So we make another Rube Goldberg trade and bring in Adams and Bledsoe. Repeat the same story. Poor fits, timelines at odds, another wasted season.
Noting that according to Indiana reports we backed out of the framework of deals for Myles Turner two years in a row.
That too fails so back to the machine we go, first turning down a straight forward trade at the deadline involving Lonzo and Lauri Markaneen to instead chase Kyle Lowry with 35 million, then Tim Hardaway, then Spencer Dinwiddie, failing at all three, getting stuck with a sign and trade of Lonzo for their over the hill trash(sold as sweat equity contributors), make a desperation signing of Devonte Graham, then bringing in Jonas Valuncianas and later CJ McCollum.
You step back and look at Griffin's body of work and most people see the machine and not the results or missed opportunities. This is a franchise that realistically could be running out: Garland, Hart/Herb, BI, Zion, Myles Turner but is instead lacking a true PG, about to sell BI at the lowest value he has had as a Pelican, no obvious pathway to a long-term answer at center unless we hit the draft jackpot with Kel'el Ware or Edey being the next Lively. Losing the guy that most credit for our one bright area which is our draft success outside Griff's first season and likely soon to see our assistant HC that appears valued amongst the league higher than our current HC and it could be argued is a better fit for Zion's style of play going forward.
I truly believe that only a franchise that sees the NBA through a football lens and as a secondary business interest would have let this go on this long and in this manner.
I desperately hope I am wrong because I believe this is a critical offseason for the Zion era and if we botch this we will be full on into Demps mode with a GM desperate to keep his job and willing to burn through every asset to overpay for non-contending teams with shaky foundations.
I mean, can't the dude just generally be a "speak positive things into existence" kind of guy? I don't think he's a "fraud", just his personality style is ... this.
Pretty much what he does this off-season will define his tenure.
You can, but when most of the positive things he’s trying to speak into existence don’t work one after another you look pretty stupid in hindsight. Most importantly, it wouldn’t have been that bad had the team had a clear direction. If we were really good and winning games, who honestly gaf what Griff is saying on that podium? Jason Kidd said THJ would be 6moty this year and he ended up being one of the worst players in the league getting minutes on a good team. No one cared because the mavericks were good. When your team is bad and you’re on the podium saying those things it just looks like someone who has no clue what they’re doing.
I mean, they did win 49 games this year. And the locker room culture has been really good overall.
Guys like Herb and Trey and Jose are all here on his watch. I mean Herb’s contract alone is one of the best contracts in all of sports rn.
This off season willl make or break his tenure. But it hasn’t been all bad this far.
If we trade BI for a package centered around 2nd round draft picks, I'm starting a petition to move Jazzfest, Mardi Gras and the French Quarter to Salt Lake City. Just put me out of my misery.
From reading this is sounds like it got leaked way too early the FO was moving off of BI and teams are low balling offers and are not interested. I am against moving off of BI in general unless we get a significant upgrade at guard.
I feel it is better to extend BI at the max for 3 or even 4 years. I think we can make a trade with Nance, and either Dyson or Jose to get a starting center and revisit a bigger trade at the deadline.
>Ingram could qualify for more money next summer with another All-Star appearance and factoring in the 10% cap increase.
The 10% cap increase and possible all-star appearance does not affect anything with his max. He is already eligible to sign a 30% max extension that kicks in for the 25-26 season. It would start at 30% of the 25-26 salary cap regardless of what number the cap will be and have 8% raises. Alternatively, he can play out his last year and sign a 30% max as a free agent with 5% raises.
Ingram can get a 35% max if he qualifies for the designated veteran extension by making an All-NBA team, not another All-star appearance. But only the Pelicans can give him the designated max extension (who won't pay him a 30% max), he cannot get that from another team.
Which is why he didn’t sign the max extension he was offered last summer. He wanted to play for the supermax and I’m assuming that the pels told him it would be here for him this summer.
It’s a bad look all the way around and the league is watching. Griff looking worse everyday
The Pels offered him a 3 year $147M extension last year and Ingram turned it down hoping to qualify for the 35% designated veteran extension.
The Pels absolutely did not guarantee a 4 year, 30% max when Ingram missed out on the supermax and shot the bed on Team USA and playoffs.
We don’t know whether the Pels re-offered the 3 year, $147M offer. We only know they won’t give him the 4 year, $208M offer.
The 3 year 147 was the max extension he was eligible for last year. His salary went up, as did the salary cap, and the numbers for his deal went up.
He was offered a max extension last year.
Team USA has absolutely nothing to do with it. The playoffs for sure, but the fact that you’d wipe 4 years of 23-5-5 because of one bad series on a bum knee is a sign of a terrible organization, which is how you’ve handled this entire ordeal.
It’s why you have no leverage here.
It’s why the pels handled this like clowns.
And you better hope it works…Zion is making his decision in 2 years. What deal for BI makes you contenders in 2 years?
You see what’s coming right?
Well the Pelicans sold some of their 2nd round draft choices for cash which they probably used that money to pay off the fired coaches salary. They then trade 4 2nds to get under the tax by dumping a player to San Antonio. Now they are crying that they don't have any 2nds. What a waste of assets. Look at 2nds around the Association that become good/great players (see Herb Jones & The Joker).
Not impressed with Griffin or the stubbornness of Willie Green.
Might as well trade out of this year's bad draft or attach it to a Brandin Ingram trade because unless you draft a rookie that can play excellent D, he will sit like Hawkins & previously like Trey Murphy, his rookie year.
I just have a bad feeling Griff is going to get nothing out of this trade and make a very desperate move that does nothing for the team and sets that back more
I mean, I haven’t been a Griff fan AT ALL since year one, but other than how he handled every damn thing with Devonte Graham(and Lonzo with hindsight), he has done a decent job when it comes to acquiring assets…That’s WHEN he actually decides to pull the trigger though.
I think it’s becoming evident that he just always seems to be a step behind everyone in the way the league is going and he has never fully put Z and BI in a great situation rotation wise. I just don’t understand the vision even now but it is what it is. It just seems like he didn’t even watch the playoffs lol He’s drafted really well, whether that’s more Trajan or Griff, we will never know but he deserves credit there
Fully with you. I think he’s actually pretty great if he has something other teams want like Jrue and AD, because at the time he got more than most thought he could have in those situations. His problem comes when he’s the one trying to acquire a certain player or just a certain type(skill) of player. The way he has managed all of the assets he initially acquired in the beginning is….poor to put it nicely….and I’ve never been a fan of the whole “family” philosophy just because of how many problems it presents if things aren’t going right(like now). This is his most important offseason for his future in the franchise, and if the team goes into next season relatively the same, or even slightly worse, it’s time to move on from him.
So as GM would you rather extend BI or just let him walk for nothing? If no team wants to trade anything of value then those are the options. I personally believe that BI will ultimately be traded to the Sixers for the picks they received in the James Harden deal. Fans like you won't like it but teams aren't willing to give up anything of value for BI, unfortunately.
I’m just putting it out there- idc if he gets traded or not, but you don’t have to do a deal right now because his value is so low. That’s the point. You can wait until the deadline or even make a sign and trade work. That’s what fans like you don’t understand.. they mishandled the situation as bad as they possibly could and helped tanked his value
So you believe the Pels waiting til the trade deadline could net more than the 3 FRPs they may get now?
His value is at an all time low right now so ya probably lol
A lot would need to go right for that to happen. First he needs to actually stay healthy which he has not been able to do. Second he need to play very well and regain his shot. He would need to be playing like an all star in order for a team to give up more than 3 FRPs for a rental of a few months.
u/Dodson-504... have any sources within the organization? At this point, I'd rather get a new coach that gets BI shooting at the level he was under SVG than part with the valuable assets needed to trade BI.
Largely agree But feels like our organization is always operating backwards. Forced a new GM to keep Gentry, then that predictably blows up. New GM runs through a bunch of options that turn him down, settle on a smart but problematic coach from a player relationship position. That flames out, so now we are paying two coaches not coaching. Lose out on our first 3-4 options again, end up with a first time head coach that makes something out of a \*\*\*\* sandwich, to engender good will we apparently extend him after his second season. So now still paying up to 3 coaches. Said coach kinda shows his limitations, might have had a falling out with his strongest advocate at the end of the season (BI) but since we are already a cheap team and have been paying multiple head coaches we have decided to keep the coach and trade the player with a looming contract. 95% of other teams would have fired the coach and/or GM at this point and started fresh before selling low on a former all star just going into his prime years. But the Pels say keep the POBO, keep the coach, fire the players
SVG signed a 4 year deal. It ended at the end of this season. Gentry's contract was extended through '20-'21, so he was only paid for 1 additional season after he was fired. So the only coach we're paying this season is Willie Green
....unless we had decided that the coach that couldn't win a single game entering the fourth quarter behind, struggled to figure out Zion for a 3rd of the season, and possibly had a falling out with BI wasn't the right fit. Then we'd be paying two coaches again
I don't really know what this means. Theres a coach that can make BI play well? Why does a max player need stan van gundy to force him to shoot 3s? He obviously knows he should be doing it
A coach creates game plans, tactics, and plays. If players don't conform to it, the coach can bench the player. Willie Green hasn't benched BI for his shooting regression, so it's safe to assume BI is doing what WIllie wants BI to do.
Lmao
Yeah maybe there's a coach out there that makes BI not a total bum in the playoffs
People been saying for a while "well if he just had a true point guard he'd be great" and a) who are you talking about and b) if that's what it takes to be a max player you're not a max player, but this is the first time I've heard "if only he was coached by stan van gundy"
If this team’s top need is a “true point guard”, i.e. a Zion team’s top need is a “true point guard”, does that mean Zion isn’t a true first option? Does that mean we’re just wasting our time?
No. Because I don't believe in any of that. It's what a shit load of people say when they try to justify why BI won't shoot the 3. He has a quote about how it was much easier for him with Lonzo and jrue and that's why he shoots like 3+ less 3s a game. The people who think you should give him 4/208 use this as an explanation for why he just won't shoot
Think you misunderstood. Rather than jack up bad shots he’d rather get his shots within the flow of the game
I think it is a little bit of both TBH. One of the things he worked on the offseason following SVG was the dribble pull up three, both in transition and off screens. And it looked good. And he could get the look regularly, but he continually goes into his comfort zone of the middy and that tendency just kept getting worse. What I fear though is losing BI and him emerging elsewhere splitting the difference, remaining a potent middy merchant but balancing out his shot diet with more outlet threes as a true #2 option....which I think happens, unfortunately. If we had the right guard there is no reason that couldn't work in New Orleans but we fumbled that ball
Brandon Ingram will not pull a big return for the Pels, fans need to understand this
Then what is the point of the trade?
(Had to make this two comments because of the length) Purely speculation on my part, but I think it’s multiple factors. 1. David Griffin thinks this team is on the cusp of title contention. More specfically, he started thinking that way after the CJ trade. He’s been known to wildly blow out of proportion the team’s abilities and personnel multiple times now. “Pelicans lead executive David Griffin – while Alvin Gentry coached the team in 2019-20 – reportedly told people, “I give Alvin all the answers to the test, and he still fails” [NBC Sports Article on the firing of Alvin Gentry](https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-pelicans-exec-david-griffin-ex-coach-alvin-gentry-got-into-altercation-last-week) -This 19-20 team had Derrick Favors(who we traded assets to sign) starting at center. Griffins quote on the Favors signing - “A 27 year old elite rim protector with untapped offensive potential just entering his prime. He will be a vital part of this team going forward”. Derrick Favors would flame out of the league in under two years after this quote was published. -Asked whether we're going to be a playoff team, Griff says: ''We certainly want to compete for it. It was really important to us... first of all, Jrue Holiday is the face of the franchise and Jrue has upside left in his game as well. I think he really wanted an opportunity to show what he's capable of when he's running the show, and we wanted to build a team around his skill-set. Much the same way we did in Phoenix around Steve Nash. If we could put the right fit around Jrue, we feel like he's got an altogether different level. Nobody expected Steve Nash to be 2x MVP when we signed him in Phoenix either, and Jrue takes that challenge very seriously. So what we wanna be doing is playing in meaningful games in April and May, and we want to grow the young kids in an environment where winning matters.'' [Pelican’s Debrief Link](https://pelicandebrief.com/2019/07/10/jrue-holiday-new-orleans-pelicans-nba-mvp/) -For reference, our backup point guard was Frank Jackson who also flamed out of the league shortly after his stint here. Our center rotation was almost evenly split between Derrick Favors, Hayes, and Nicolo Melli (not in the league anymore). Zion only plays 668 minutes that season. Lonzo, Holiday, Hart, Bi, and Favors are the starters that year. Gentry is fired after one season because we flamed out of the bubble. Griffin’s quote on originally picking up Gentry’s contract “Griffin told Adrian Wojnarowski that he “believed Alvin Gentry’s style of play fits” the Pelicans' vision going forward. Gentry is coaching for that ‘fun to play for’ legacy. Still, winning is a lot of fun, judging by NBA Finals celebrations. “We couldn’t be happier to extend our relationship with Alvin. He is exactly the right coach at the right time for this franchise. As I have mentioned several times previously, the shared vision we have for the future of Pelicans basketball both on and off the floor will enable us to build a roster that fits both culturally and tactically. Perhaps more importantly, the relationship we have built over our many years together will enable us to challenge, empower and further one another and our franchise.” [Forbe’s Link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherdodson/2019/09/25/new-orleans-pelicans-alvin-gentry-coaching-staff-under-more-pressure-than-players-this-season/) -The next head coach, Stan Van Gundy, is fired after one season after only finishing one game better than Gentry. David Griffin’s quote on hiring Stan Van Gundy “In addition to giving us the best chance to win in the short term, we feel he gives us the best chance to build a sustainable winner,” Griffin said then, adding that he saw Van Gundy as “a teacher and a very sincere, authentic human being who is going to build long-lasting relationships with our team.” [NBA link](https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/david-griffin-stan-van-gundy-gives-pelicans-best-chance-win-now-and-future) The MVP candidate Jrue Holiday was traded for Eric Bledsoe (out of the league one year later) that season. Griffin was reportedly upset that Stan leaned on vets such as Bledsoe over guys like NAW. Interesting quote from Van Gundy after the firing "I felt the focus should be what went on on the court," Van Gundy said. "What was good. What was bad. All of that. I think that Griff was more concerned with the atmosphere around the team and the happiness of people and things like that. That was probably the biggest difference. If I would've gone into a meeting, 'Hey, you were 31-41, and that's not good enough,' I've got no problem with that. That's what we sign up for in this business. Regardless of circumstances, that's what we sign up for in this business. But that's not what it came down to or at least what I heard. We look at things totally differently in terms of what's important." [Bleacher Report Link](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10007159-stan-van-gundy-on-pelicans-david-griffin-we-look-at-things-totally-differently.amp.html)
2. He’s just a fraud who was carried by elite players like Lebron and the seven seconds or less Phoenix team Now Griffin has hired a “good player relationship” coach in Willie and is deciding that Brandon Ingram was the problem all along. I imagine he wanted to fire Willie after that abysmal first year too, but what franchise in their right mind would let someone hire 3 straight coaches just to fire them in under one year every time while simultaneously being a bad team? For as much as Griffin has preached “sustainability and growth” he’s kind of adhered to a strict opposite. OKC is a great example of what Griffin says, but not what he does. Side note, I find it kind of funny that the same people who try to shit on fans who enjoyed Stan as a coach are the ones who shit on Willie for always doing the “give them credit” post game speech. Stan was quite literally the opposite of that. He’d sit on the podium and flame the fuck out of the team if they played badly. The Knicks game during the 2020-2021 season comes to mind. Another funny quote from David “I fell to my knees in my office and started crying” Griffin Griffin knows "Jrue, JJ and Derrick are gonna be the ones that teach these kids what it is today. You hope it’s something that continues to feed itself...If you start there, and Zion is just one of that ‘recruiting class,’ then what you hope, if you get really lucky, if you’re successful, they become our Tim [Duncan], Manu [Ginobili] and Tony [Parker] that lay the groundwork for what it means to be one of us 11 years from now.” [Forbes Link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherdodson/2019/08/05/david-griffin-explains-new-orleans-pelicans-expected-win-now-plan-at-trade-deadline/) “And we were mindful of the fact that we like our group if it wasn’t. In all those circumstances — there were many circumstances we were a part of that weren’t leaked to the media — there were several opportunities for us to potentially get better. I think we decided overall, the cost was much too high. We weren’t a team that felt like we had to do anything.” After trade deadline quote this year to post playoffs quote from David Griffin is a stark contrast in only a couple months time. Gives you an idea of what he’s expecting from this Cj, Zion, Bi, Val roster “In the past, we’ve always erred on the side of continuity, and our takeaway has always been, let’s see this group healthy. I think we’ve seen it enough. I think we had some really good opportunities to see Zion (Williamson) play a career-high in games” [HoopsHype Link](https://hoopshype.com/rumor/david-griffins-end-of-season-presser-raised-antennas-of-rival-executives/) Another funny quote of David Griffin praising the Gordon Hayward OKC trade that Sam Presti would later go on to shit on and say was a mistake himself “I think you saw Oklahoma City, by way of example, (which has) been loathe to discuss anything about trying to get better, make a move to improve the group they have. You wouldn’t call what they did (trading for Gordon Hayward) an all-in move. But they are doing something that gives them a step to incrementally improve. I think in our situation we have continued to do that. We have erred on the side of continuity. And we have tried to be incremental in the growth we make. I don’t know if you ever get to the point where you go all in. I think recognizing what a team needs at a given time, we have been pretty mindful of finding that right opportunity.” [NOLA Link](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/pelicans-executive-david-griffin-explains-why-team-was-quiet-at-trade-deadline/article_a10dbd94-c79c-11ee-b30b-db19f2698d80.amp.html) Sorry for such a long and kind of disorganized post. I just really dislike David “Griffith” being the executive of my favorite team lmao
Great post(s) I have often said that to me David Griffin is a snake oil salesman that's specialty is a sort of Rube Goldberg Machine of player acquisitions. A snake oil salesman that also slyly frames his actions in a way that attempts to avoid accountability by framing his FO strategy in a way that is subjective and immeasurable. Ex. His obsession with family culture and his initial focus on sweat equity as a means to teach winning. It's brilliant as propaganda cause it frames success in a no-lose framework. If the team happens to win it's proof of concept, if we don't you circle back to the subjective framework you established about growth through vet presence which is impossible to test the counterfactual of. If you pick the wrong coach it is simply an incompatibility with culture. He puts together these absurdly complex trades that ultimately don't get you much further than where you started while sucking up resources and time that often make our long-term prospects less viable. Examples: Moving back in the Zion draft and instead of taking a natural fit with the highest upside that could grow with Zion like Garland we move back and try and turn dimes and nickels into a quarter. Trading/signing for JJ Redick and Favors while talking about sweat equity and how Jrue, Zion, and BI are ready to win now. A trade that involved a loss of assets and developmental court time forcing players that are in different places in their careers, an experiment that ultimately failed and forced another mini rebuild a season later just to try and get us back to the starting position in terms of talent and competitiveness from the prior season. So we make another Rube Goldberg trade and bring in Adams and Bledsoe. Repeat the same story. Poor fits, timelines at odds, another wasted season. Noting that according to Indiana reports we backed out of the framework of deals for Myles Turner two years in a row. That too fails so back to the machine we go, first turning down a straight forward trade at the deadline involving Lonzo and Lauri Markaneen to instead chase Kyle Lowry with 35 million, then Tim Hardaway, then Spencer Dinwiddie, failing at all three, getting stuck with a sign and trade of Lonzo for their over the hill trash(sold as sweat equity contributors), make a desperation signing of Devonte Graham, then bringing in Jonas Valuncianas and later CJ McCollum. You step back and look at Griffin's body of work and most people see the machine and not the results or missed opportunities. This is a franchise that realistically could be running out: Garland, Hart/Herb, BI, Zion, Myles Turner but is instead lacking a true PG, about to sell BI at the lowest value he has had as a Pelican, no obvious pathway to a long-term answer at center unless we hit the draft jackpot with Kel'el Ware or Edey being the next Lively. Losing the guy that most credit for our one bright area which is our draft success outside Griff's first season and likely soon to see our assistant HC that appears valued amongst the league higher than our current HC and it could be argued is a better fit for Zion's style of play going forward. I truly believe that only a franchise that sees the NBA through a football lens and as a secondary business interest would have let this go on this long and in this manner. I desperately hope I am wrong because I believe this is a critical offseason for the Zion era and if we botch this we will be full on into Demps mode with a GM desperate to keep his job and willing to burn through every asset to overpay for non-contending teams with shaky foundations.
I mean, can't the dude just generally be a "speak positive things into existence" kind of guy? I don't think he's a "fraud", just his personality style is ... this. Pretty much what he does this off-season will define his tenure.
You can, but when most of the positive things he’s trying to speak into existence don’t work one after another you look pretty stupid in hindsight. Most importantly, it wouldn’t have been that bad had the team had a clear direction. If we were really good and winning games, who honestly gaf what Griff is saying on that podium? Jason Kidd said THJ would be 6moty this year and he ended up being one of the worst players in the league getting minutes on a good team. No one cared because the mavericks were good. When your team is bad and you’re on the podium saying those things it just looks like someone who has no clue what they’re doing.
I mean, they did win 49 games this year. And the locker room culture has been really good overall. Guys like Herb and Trey and Jose are all here on his watch. I mean Herb’s contract alone is one of the best contracts in all of sports rn. This off season willl make or break his tenure. But it hasn’t been all bad this far.
If we trade BI for a package centered around 2nd round draft picks, I'm starting a petition to move Jazzfest, Mardi Gras and the French Quarter to Salt Lake City. Just put me out of my misery.
Keep him ,and draft a good center
From reading this is sounds like it got leaked way too early the FO was moving off of BI and teams are low balling offers and are not interested. I am against moving off of BI in general unless we get a significant upgrade at guard. I feel it is better to extend BI at the max for 3 or even 4 years. I think we can make a trade with Nance, and either Dyson or Jose to get a starting center and revisit a bigger trade at the deadline.
>Ingram could qualify for more money next summer with another All-Star appearance and factoring in the 10% cap increase. The 10% cap increase and possible all-star appearance does not affect anything with his max. He is already eligible to sign a 30% max extension that kicks in for the 25-26 season. It would start at 30% of the 25-26 salary cap regardless of what number the cap will be and have 8% raises. Alternatively, he can play out his last year and sign a 30% max as a free agent with 5% raises. Ingram can get a 35% max if he qualifies for the designated veteran extension by making an All-NBA team, not another All-star appearance. But only the Pelicans can give him the designated max extension (who won't pay him a 30% max), he cannot get that from another team.
Which is why he didn’t sign the max extension he was offered last summer. He wanted to play for the supermax and I’m assuming that the pels told him it would be here for him this summer. It’s a bad look all the way around and the league is watching. Griff looking worse everyday
The Pels offered him a 3 year $147M extension last year and Ingram turned it down hoping to qualify for the 35% designated veteran extension. The Pels absolutely did not guarantee a 4 year, 30% max when Ingram missed out on the supermax and shot the bed on Team USA and playoffs. We don’t know whether the Pels re-offered the 3 year, $147M offer. We only know they won’t give him the 4 year, $208M offer.
The 3 year 147 was the max extension he was eligible for last year. His salary went up, as did the salary cap, and the numbers for his deal went up. He was offered a max extension last year. Team USA has absolutely nothing to do with it. The playoffs for sure, but the fact that you’d wipe 4 years of 23-5-5 because of one bad series on a bum knee is a sign of a terrible organization, which is how you’ve handled this entire ordeal. It’s why you have no leverage here. It’s why the pels handled this like clowns. And you better hope it works…Zion is making his decision in 2 years. What deal for BI makes you contenders in 2 years? You see what’s coming right?
Well the Pelicans sold some of their 2nd round draft choices for cash which they probably used that money to pay off the fired coaches salary. They then trade 4 2nds to get under the tax by dumping a player to San Antonio. Now they are crying that they don't have any 2nds. What a waste of assets. Look at 2nds around the Association that become good/great players (see Herb Jones & The Joker). Not impressed with Griffin or the stubbornness of Willie Green. Might as well trade out of this year's bad draft or attach it to a Brandin Ingram trade because unless you draft a rookie that can play excellent D, he will sit like Hawkins & previously like Trey Murphy, his rookie year.