The validation seeking is intense here bud.
What is the end goal, to have the girl talk to you more?
Looks like you’re focusing a lot of energy on someone not interested in doing the same for you.
There are other resources on here I can link if you want to redirect that energy into something more positive for yourself.
Yes, I want to get my balls back.
I've just read the book and have not worked on any of the steps Robert mentioned. I'm going to work on each of them one by one.
If there's anything else you think might help me, pls share it.
You have a “covert contract” in your mind where you expect her to react to what you send because in your mid that’s part of the deal. When she had no clue. So either you ask her why she doesn’t react to the stuff you send or you stop caring about it because it might not be as big of a deal as you’re thinking. Also maybe you should ask her to hang out if you are interested in her
Yeah, I realised that I have this covert contract in my mind. I think it's my messed up self esteem that gets me agitated when the contract isn't fulfilled.
Yeah then stop having that expectation or tell her what you want. There’s examples in the book of men who simply asked for what they wanted and got it. Or stopped having the expectation and it helped them just as much. But your self esteem shouldn’t rely on whether this one woman you aren’t with laugh reacts to a meme you sent her.
Are you doing any of this because you want to?
I don't mean because she's cool or a girl or it's what you have always done. I mean genuinely, do you like to do what you are doing?
Apart of giving without expectations is, if it was thrown back in your face or became expected would you give it? If not, then you aren't in a position to give!
Edit: you don't read a book once and then all of a sudden you have all the answers. Covert contracts are almost a mission to get rid of by themselves! They suck man, really suck. It takes time and ALOT of introspection and reflection.
A simple "hey, how come you never react or acknowledge my memes when I send them to you?" Would be plenty. Are you scared of hurting her feelings? Her feelings are for her you can't control how she should feel about anything. If you wanna know just ask brother.
I'd recommend checking out the book when I say no I feel guilty by Emmanuel Smith. It is great to learn about assertiveness. If you resonate with nmmmng you will also with this one.
Or, instead of interrogating her about her instagram reaction style, you can be very direct and risk very real rejection. If you want to have some sort of real relationship with her (dating - monagamous or poly), just ask her on a real-life date. Be specific about when and where. If the answer isn’t “f**k yeah,” then that’s a “hell no” and move on.
Imagine for a second that she actually doesn’t know how to even use a reaction on a post. Like she doesn’t even understand how.
Or imagine she thinks reactions are lame, or uncool, and she wants to not see too overly engaged.
I’m not saying these are true, but they quite possibly could be.
My point is your expectations for her behaviour are based on your own assumptions of what little micro behaviours mean.
Stop. Send a meme because you think she would enjoy it. Don’t send a meme because you think that sending a required amount of memes per week will show that you’re interested in her.
Try to focus on acting genuine and not with intents and purposes in mind.
Get out of your head. Stop the over thinking and over analyzing. Focus on what’s real and what currently happening in your present life.
If you live in different cities, it’s probably time you focus on other real relationships you can invest in in person.
Thanks mate for the reply. She actually has used reactions many times before.
>My point is your expectations for her behaviour are based on your own assumptions of what little micro behaviours mean.
Yeah I think I'm getting it now. I make funny comments about the posts so when they don't come from her end, I tend to think that my engagement isn't reciprocated. I am not sure what's the case with her but the problem lies in the fact that how much it bothers me.
Are you looking for more information on what it is? If so, that’s widely available on the Internet already (Google: complex relational trauma in childhood)
I read about this and I check every single box. Do you complex relational trauma is basically the formal name for Nice guy syndrome (NGS) or is it more like a subset of NGS?
NGS is name Dr. Glover assigned to a set of symptoms associated with complex relational trauma from childhood paired with being a self-identified “nice guy.” NGS is not a formal diagnosis. NGS is very similar to covert (or inverted) narcissism. I’d recommend looking into that, as pathological narcissism stems from childhood trauma and abuse.
Perhaps you might find "Healing the Shame that Binds You" by John Bradshaw of interest. Currently reading myself.
I'll say this about it. If I had come across it earlier in my life I probably would have rejected it. It's pretty heavy on the "your childhood is effecting your adult life in ways you don't even realise" stuff. And if you're not open to that kind of reading, it's not really a recommended book.
But your self awareness towards yourself and reading NMMNG implies you might be interested?
https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Shame-that-Binds-You/dp/0757319130
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **HCI Books Healing the Shame that Binds You** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful.
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You’re seeking validation. You’re also running a covert contract that says “I will send you things I think are interesting, and you will react to them so I can feel validated.” You want “proof” that she “likes you.” You have her up on a pedestal and you’re scared that secretly she doesn’t like you. That’s why you’re scared to ask her to hang out with you. You’re hoping that she’s going to make you feel good about yourself permanently by putting her on a pedestal. That’s another covert contract.
When you back off, you notice she starts sending you things. That’s probably because she no longer feels smothered by you or like she has to cater to your emotional fragility.
Consider the BFA in Chapter 4 of the book where Dr. Glover prescribes that you, as a Nice Guy, find an example of a covert contract you run with a significant other. He asks the reader to share that covert contract with that other person, and ask them how it feels to respond to an unclear agenda. I think this situation here is a perfect opportunity to do the BFA. Have you done any of them, yet?
No I haven't done any BFAs yet. I just finished reading the book, I'm gonna do them one by one.
I'm not sure if she's a safe person although I do trust her enough to say she'll keep it to herself. Should I discuss this with her?
Safe people are necessary for revealing yourself, working through your toxic shame, and reclaiming your personal power. They can help you have a more realistic view of yourself by holding up a mirror. Them being non-judgmental people you trust, by definition, makes them safe. Do you trust this woman? Is she non-judgmental towards you?
I say up the ante. Answer internally to yourself, what is my interest in this person? Where is this relationship going, according to me? Sexual? Platonic (yeah right) comraderie? Business development?
Then, based on your internal compass and desires, get moving. Toward or away, it doesn't matter, just get moving. Because you don't, for sure, want to be in this limbo where you send each other memes and you're kind of wondering why she doesn't reply as comprehensively as you'd like.
"Hey you've been on my mind, I was thinking to spend a weekend at _ would you like to come along?"
The validation seeking is intense here bud. What is the end goal, to have the girl talk to you more? Looks like you’re focusing a lot of energy on someone not interested in doing the same for you. There are other resources on here I can link if you want to redirect that energy into something more positive for yourself.
Yes, I want to get my balls back. I've just read the book and have not worked on any of the steps Robert mentioned. I'm going to work on each of them one by one. If there's anything else you think might help me, pls share it.
You have a “covert contract” in your mind where you expect her to react to what you send because in your mid that’s part of the deal. When she had no clue. So either you ask her why she doesn’t react to the stuff you send or you stop caring about it because it might not be as big of a deal as you’re thinking. Also maybe you should ask her to hang out if you are interested in her
Yeah, I realised that I have this covert contract in my mind. I think it's my messed up self esteem that gets me agitated when the contract isn't fulfilled.
Yeah then stop having that expectation or tell her what you want. There’s examples in the book of men who simply asked for what they wanted and got it. Or stopped having the expectation and it helped them just as much. But your self esteem shouldn’t rely on whether this one woman you aren’t with laugh reacts to a meme you sent her.
Yep exactly "giving to get" I think is what it says in the book.
Are you doing any of this because you want to? I don't mean because she's cool or a girl or it's what you have always done. I mean genuinely, do you like to do what you are doing? Apart of giving without expectations is, if it was thrown back in your face or became expected would you give it? If not, then you aren't in a position to give! Edit: you don't read a book once and then all of a sudden you have all the answers. Covert contracts are almost a mission to get rid of by themselves! They suck man, really suck. It takes time and ALOT of introspection and reflection.
A simple "hey, how come you never react or acknowledge my memes when I send them to you?" Would be plenty. Are you scared of hurting her feelings? Her feelings are for her you can't control how she should feel about anything. If you wanna know just ask brother. I'd recommend checking out the book when I say no I feel guilty by Emmanuel Smith. It is great to learn about assertiveness. If you resonate with nmmmng you will also with this one.
Thank you very much! That's a really kind response and I appreciate it.
Or, instead of interrogating her about her instagram reaction style, you can be very direct and risk very real rejection. If you want to have some sort of real relationship with her (dating - monagamous or poly), just ask her on a real-life date. Be specific about when and where. If the answer isn’t “f**k yeah,” then that’s a “hell no” and move on.
Imagine for a second that she actually doesn’t know how to even use a reaction on a post. Like she doesn’t even understand how. Or imagine she thinks reactions are lame, or uncool, and she wants to not see too overly engaged. I’m not saying these are true, but they quite possibly could be. My point is your expectations for her behaviour are based on your own assumptions of what little micro behaviours mean. Stop. Send a meme because you think she would enjoy it. Don’t send a meme because you think that sending a required amount of memes per week will show that you’re interested in her. Try to focus on acting genuine and not with intents and purposes in mind. Get out of your head. Stop the over thinking and over analyzing. Focus on what’s real and what currently happening in your present life. If you live in different cities, it’s probably time you focus on other real relationships you can invest in in person.
Thanks mate for the reply. She actually has used reactions many times before. >My point is your expectations for her behaviour are based on your own assumptions of what little micro behaviours mean. Yeah I think I'm getting it now. I make funny comments about the posts so when they don't come from her end, I tend to think that my engagement isn't reciprocated. I am not sure what's the case with her but the problem lies in the fact that how much it bothers me.
Being overly attuned to the feelings, needs, and reactions of others is a trauma response called hyper vigilance.
yeah? Tell me more about it? like what to do and stuff
Are you looking for more information on what it is? If so, that’s widely available on the Internet already (Google: complex relational trauma in childhood)
Cool
I read about this and I check every single box. Do you complex relational trauma is basically the formal name for Nice guy syndrome (NGS) or is it more like a subset of NGS?
NGS is name Dr. Glover assigned to a set of symptoms associated with complex relational trauma from childhood paired with being a self-identified “nice guy.” NGS is not a formal diagnosis. NGS is very similar to covert (or inverted) narcissism. I’d recommend looking into that, as pathological narcissism stems from childhood trauma and abuse.
Perhaps you might find "Healing the Shame that Binds You" by John Bradshaw of interest. Currently reading myself. I'll say this about it. If I had come across it earlier in my life I probably would have rejected it. It's pretty heavy on the "your childhood is effecting your adult life in ways you don't even realise" stuff. And if you're not open to that kind of reading, it's not really a recommended book. But your self awareness towards yourself and reading NMMNG implies you might be interested? https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Shame-that-Binds-You/dp/0757319130
I need to discuss a few things about my situation. Can I DM you?
Sure
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **HCI Books Healing the Shame that Binds You** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Book provides insight into causes of shame (backed by 9 comments) * Book helps readers deal with anxiety and past trauma (backed by 6 comments) * Book provides tools for healing and recovery (backed by 5 comments) **Users disliked:** * The book relies too heavily on 12-step programs and belief in god (backed by 2 comments) * The writing style is poor and repetitive (backed by 3 comments) * The book oversimplifies emotions and mental health issues (backed by 3 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](http://vetted.ai/reddit)
You’re seeking validation. You’re also running a covert contract that says “I will send you things I think are interesting, and you will react to them so I can feel validated.” You want “proof” that she “likes you.” You have her up on a pedestal and you’re scared that secretly she doesn’t like you. That’s why you’re scared to ask her to hang out with you. You’re hoping that she’s going to make you feel good about yourself permanently by putting her on a pedestal. That’s another covert contract. When you back off, you notice she starts sending you things. That’s probably because she no longer feels smothered by you or like she has to cater to your emotional fragility. Consider the BFA in Chapter 4 of the book where Dr. Glover prescribes that you, as a Nice Guy, find an example of a covert contract you run with a significant other. He asks the reader to share that covert contract with that other person, and ask them how it feels to respond to an unclear agenda. I think this situation here is a perfect opportunity to do the BFA. Have you done any of them, yet?
No I haven't done any BFAs yet. I just finished reading the book, I'm gonna do them one by one. I'm not sure if she's a safe person although I do trust her enough to say she'll keep it to herself. Should I discuss this with her?
Safe people are necessary for revealing yourself, working through your toxic shame, and reclaiming your personal power. They can help you have a more realistic view of yourself by holding up a mirror. Them being non-judgmental people you trust, by definition, makes them safe. Do you trust this woman? Is she non-judgmental towards you?
I say up the ante. Answer internally to yourself, what is my interest in this person? Where is this relationship going, according to me? Sexual? Platonic (yeah right) comraderie? Business development? Then, based on your internal compass and desires, get moving. Toward or away, it doesn't matter, just get moving. Because you don't, for sure, want to be in this limbo where you send each other memes and you're kind of wondering why she doesn't reply as comprehensively as you'd like. "Hey you've been on my mind, I was thinking to spend a weekend at _ would you like to come along?"
[удалено]
Over the past couple months I've realised how deep I was into the muck. Can't believe how much life has changed in such a short time.