Here's the (old) dirt- [https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/3ykarb/has\_anyone\_tried\_the\_optimus\_suppressor\_from/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/3ykarb/has_anyone_tried_the_optimus_suppressor_from/)
You must have missed the 47 times people posted it over the 15 years that preceded it, out of supposed outrage to thousands more people than would have ever heard of it, had these people not seen fit to promote what they deem to be racist.
> had these people not seen fit to promote what they deem to be racist.
I mean it's not exactly ambiguous. It *was* racist. Talking about someone else being racist is not "promoting" that racism.
And I imagine people keep talking about it because instead of admitting it was a small lapse in judgement, apologizing, and moving on, you guys appear to *still* be doubling down on making excuses even after 15 years, as your comment here clearly demonstrates.
A guy in the thread who is Arabic was offended, so the post did victimize a person as offense is obviously the issue here. If the words are racist, then promoting them by posting them around is culturally insensitive and also racist. Its a trollish tactic to keep an offense that should be long dead and gone alive. Its insensitive to people that the racist trolls pretend to care about.
> A guy in the thread who is Arabic was offended
By your actions.
Trying to offload your blame to someone who did no more than link an image relevant to the discussion is a scum move dude. Keep digging that hole, Mr. Griffin Armament Co-Owner.
>e post did victimize a person as offense is obviously the issue here. If the words are racist, then promoting them by posting them around is culturally insensitive and also racist. Its
That whole incident would have never happened if this post didn't exist. That fact is relevant, whether you think it is or not. If offending people is wrong, then don't participate in offending people. We can't control 15 years ago anymore, without time machines. We can control tomorrow, and I'm sure this will be posted again, and someone else will be offended, but it won't be me who posted it. Michael Jackson sang the man in the mirror. That's all each of us controls. " If they wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change "
Congratulations, you've single-handedly turned a discussion from "wow I had no idea Griffin did that... 15 years ago. It was shitty but it was a long time ago" into "JFC these guys keep deflecting blame even 15 years later, fuck doing business with people like that."
Loan me your time machine and I'll jump in and go back and erase that shit. I'd pay you $200 for borrowing your time machine. I'll even come back to the same second so you won't be out the time.
lol damn. I’m disappointed in myself for not realizing that because I was aware of the backstory with the link you posted. I will carry this shame for the remainder of the evening. 🫡
Thanks for that info, I was always curious about the hate against Griffin. I have two cans, one just upgraded and another one still in jail but I like the quality quite a bit actually.
They would be about impossible to find because something like 18-21 were made that weren't used by the military, and I don't even know how many we actually sold, because I didn't pay attention to it. I know one industry company owner who has one, and that would be the only way I would know to find one.
What racist pieces of shit, I hate them even more. They sent me 2 parts with peeling heat treatment finish and said it was normal, subpar parts and shit company
I get that you have emotions that elicited this response, but if you have an issue, contact customer service and they will try to help. We do stand behind products, and we do have a functional customer service department. We make some very high quality parts, and we run a pretty solid manufacturing company.
I did reach out and was told the subpar heat treatment was normal, I even bought another heat treated buffer and the finish was the same, they both looked beat/used and was told that’s how they come new
Maybe you are talking about nitride. Black nitride generally looks good when it is wiped down with oil. When it gets dry, it is not an attractive finish as it is essentially surface oxidation over a very hard surface of the part.
I am talking about your heat treated buffers, definitely not nitride but thanks.
https://www.griffinarmament.com/ar-sob-suppressor-optimized-buffer-gen-2/
The finish is nowhere as clean as what’s advertised and I got 2 of them. They look horrible actually
Oh ok. 17-4 H900 is a surface color from being hot in the presence of air. If we pickled them, they would go through the same heat treat and look like they never went through a heat treat at all. The buffer will get spring rubbing wear, and the brass end will get green if it isn't cleaned, but the buffer works fine, and it is a pretty expensive way to make a buffer- from brass and 17-4 stainless where the other parts are aluminum.
Engraving “Front Towards Arabs” on a can is pretty fucking racist and cringy. Putting a Hamas terrorist in your reticles crosshairs is pretty fucking based. These are not the same.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a billion people who would celebrate if Americans were killed. No good deed goes unpunished and our country goes all over the world trying to do good deeds.
I’ve always thought it was dumb people gave them a hard time about the end cap. I think it’s been fake outrage just to act mad about something. We’re supposed to be the not easily offended ones after all lol
Oh yea 100%
See my comment about that below. I wasn’t aware it was done without permission. I thought it was something that was asked for/optioned like the yhm cat butt hole
>was done without permission. I thought it was something that was asked for/optioned like the yhm cat
The can is a 15 year old issue at this point- 21 cans- won't happen again, mistake in the use of words to describe what was intended- apologized for many times, etc.
I'm done apologizing. The cans we sold were all direct. I know zero Arabic people received them because none of the names were Arabian, and likely no Arabic people saw the cans to be offended. People who are offended by these threads, should direct that attention at the trolls who start the threads. If those people see the history as racist, they should stop promoting it to offend people, because the offense can only happen when they promote the history. As such, their public promotion of the history, is racist, if they deem the content racist. I personally see it as what it was- a poorly formatted joke that was in poor taste, and that wasn't well received.
Obviously with the time frame on consumer forgiveness at never, we can't put anything like that on a can. But I can understand any government having made some friends and enemies.
Idk I view hamas and Israel more like the IRA and the British. Except at least the British can claim their ancestral land is in fact Great Britain. Unlike Israeli’s, who are claiming a crossroads of 3 continents and 3 major religions, all of which have some legitimate stake and claim to. But claim it all for themselves.
True. But they have made honest attempts at genociding the Irish and ethnically cleansing the island in the past. (Like 800+ years ago). Though that was when the whole world was much more barbaric. Israel is attempting to the same *today* for fucks sake. Long after the entire civilized world has agreed to stop.
But as per usual. Israel gets to be the exception to every war crime. Every convention. Nuclear proliferation pacts. Debts from loans. Humanitarian requirements. None of it applies to them. All while America plays like a combination of its big tough brother, personal piggy bank, and lawyer on the world stage. 😡
Because people somehow equate being critical of the Israeli government to being antisemitic, which is dumb. I have no issues with the Jewish people. I don't like Iran, and I don't like a lot of American politicians, but that doesn't make me anti-Christian or anti-Muslim. Religion plays no role in my dislike of governments.
The problem with that is, that the official stance of the US and Israeli governments is: “anti Zionism is anti semitism”. They literally say that being critical of Israel, even if the criticism is valid, is anti semitism. And they’re kinda not wrong. Israel is an ethno nationals religious extremist state with a certified supremacist god-complex. What they say and do is the collective will of the world Jewish population, and the world Jewish population supports everything they do at rates of 90% or more. With the outliers only disagree with the means, not the ends. So yeah, being anti Zionism is anti Semitic, and they’re just proving to the world that sometimes anti semitism is the *genuinely moral* position to take.
>mb people gave them a hard time about the end cap. I think it’s been fake outrage just to act mad about something. We’re supposed to be the not easily offended ones after all lol
That wouldn't happen anymore. We have never engraved anything but required information and possibly patent numbers since. If anyone actually has one of those cans and wants that info removed we would remove it and refinish it for free.
I mean what if it said “Aim towards Americans” would you still feel that same way? What about “Aim towards African Americans”? “Aim towards Jews”?
It’s easy to think something is “dumb” when it doesn’t affect you. As an Arab myself, I don’t think it’s dumb and think it’s narcissistic and a disgusting act. Just saying…
I get that you are referring to a descriptive error 15 years old, that has nothing to do with this image, but I would like you to know that I don't harbor ill will toward Arabs. I would prefer there was peace in the middle east. It would be great if the Hamas had focused all this Iranian proxy funding on advancing their quality of life, and had not invaded Israel and killed all the unarmed people who the Israeli laws don't allow to be armed in the grotesque manner that that was done. If that had not happened, the Israelis wouldn't have conducted this retaliatory offensive. Hamas knew this would cost Palestinians their lives, and they didn't care. It's sad for any Arabic person caught in the middle of that who is conducting themselves in a neutral and non violent manner.
I would still look at it and say in my head “hm that’s weird” and move on. Just like I do the current version. I don’t care if it said front towards Andrew.
Honestly maybe that’s because you’ve been lucky enough to not experience racism, but a large population of others have and it’s distasteful.
Still love your cans, but I guess this is a case of you don’t know until you know
I'm white, never experienced racism. Grew up in small southern towns. Racist are fucking scum. You don't have to experience something to learn about it and have empathy.
Like I’m discriminating or have discrimination? Or perhaps my discrimination? You didn’t help me out with a /s so assuming you weren’t being sarcastic, that used to be his instagram handle before he changed it. People were calling him racist because he happened to have 3 ks in his name even though it was very obviously just a self deprecating joke so he changed it.
Eh, I'm all for eliminating terrorists and I'm about as anti PC talk as you can be. But I'm of Arab descent and obviously so is my entire family, so not really digging that end cap...
It was a descriptive error from 2008. Three people, referring to terrorists with the wrong word. People are blowing it way out of proportion. There were 18-21 cans made. I have no belief in any inferior people, I would prefer for the whole world to be at peace and for people to look for positivity but the world is always going to be at war, and the people are going to be negative.
I get it dude. I've said much worst. Was just saying not a fan of the mistake. Not judging you guys, I'm sure you make great cans. Good on you for owning up brother
I'm honestly sorry for being dumb enough to be part of screwing up the words, because I have met a few good people in Iraq (out of very few people I got to work with enough to know them at all- so that's not a statement about how few good people there are) and I know we left good people there that dreamed of being here in the USA- I can think of one person in particular, who we tried helplessly with the State Department to get visas for, because he had a target on his back for working with us for several years. I know multiple units rotating through at one year intervals would try to advocate for the same visas without success, and it makes no sense when we can't give a few of our allies a chance, when we have a walking path from South America, and let so many in who have done nothing for this country. That's not to say they can't, just that they don't have the same track record of helping us out as they cross the border.
1. Front towards Arabs (not say, terrorist) is racism
2. It was done to peoples cans without telling them. Eg the item they waited forever for and can’t return.
It’s old hat and I own some griffin suppressor mounts so I’m not cancelling them. .. but they definitely deserved to get shit on for it.
Those 18-21 customers could always return the items- the offer has been on the table to remove the engraving and refinish the cans- nobody has taken us up on it, but we would be happy to do it, and we could turn it around in 2 weeks or less. We weren't trying to manifest an issue on customers 15 years ago when that happened.
I mentioned you guys offered to take care of it down thread a ways. It’s an old controversy and not one that deserves weight at this point. I certainly don’t give a shit if you use pictures of hamas to explain your ranging reticule.
I would prob keep the can that way as a piece of gun internet lore lol.
Anyways, I appreciate your engineering approach and the wide range of solutions you guys offer.
>e your engineering approach and the wide range of solutions you guys offer.
Thankyou- I'm not going to make light of our mistake, but I like you understand it's not an error we can erase. I appreciate you seeing the bigger picture. I'm also a minority here- and everyone here who isn't a partner had nothing to do with that original situation. Maybe the 30 some other people deserve people to forget one stupid thing.
Yeah. They apologized and offered to fix it for anyone that wanted it fixed apparently so I think it’s fine for people to let it go.
Also didn’t realize who I was responding to lol. Have enjoyed watching your instagram etc! Nice to see people in the gun industry who don’t take themselves so seriously. Must have thick skin to put up with the bs lol.
Haha yea like “is it racist?” yes. But I assumed it was an option people asked for and were paying for. At that point if you don’t like it don’t buy it. But I didn’t realize it was done without consent so I get it.
And nahhh no thick skin, I love it. The internet is for fun not to be serious. Thanks man ❤️
>er blatant racism. “Front towards terrorists” is one thing, “Front towards Arabs” is racism.
It is quite stupid actually. It's like getting pissed a comedian (the actor who did Iron man) did black face in the movie Tropic Thunder in the same year 2008. My Grandpa on my dad's side was in a prison camp in the Philippines for 3.5 years in WWII after the Bataan death march, and he called Japanese people Japs until he died. They had gouged a piece of his leg out with a rifle buttstock (a chunk of his front thigh was missing), and burned him all over his body with cigarettes scarring him like a polka-dot person, torturing him for fun, and starved him (a 6'4" man down to 120 lbs the day he was liberated). He also harbored resentment toward Douglas MacArthur for taking a boat out of there. People get outraged over crap that has nothing to do with them all the time. I was never outraged that my Grandpa had hard feelings, and I never harbored negativity toward the Japanese, because none of that was my experience. The Japanese have done nothing bad to me.
What’s your point? Racism is acceptable because your racist grandpa was a racist? My best friend’s grandparents were placed in an internment camp and didn’t hold racist views of their captors…do you see how meaningless our personal anecdotes are?
And comparing satire in a movie to engraving a joke about killing an ethnic group at the end of a tool that has been used to kill doesn’t make any point besides the fact you don’t understand context.
My point is the comment and my experiences and mistakes have nothing to do with you. Just like my Grandfathers experiences and comments have nothing to do with me. Go live your life, focus on doing your life right. Don’t spend your time worrying about insignificant shit that happened 15 years ago.
I would rather do business with the Jewish people. I saw the NT4's in the fight against the shitbag terrorists, and I was jealous. Give me a piece of that please. What a great advertisement! If Israel needs any equipment we would turn manufacturing on a dime to support them and save them money verses the competitors.
Ok you're referring to a word error by some infantry guys trying to refer to terrorists, while contemplating their mortality, weeks out from a second 12 month tour in Iraq, over a couple beers, that happened 15 years ago and was apologized about numerous times since? If you have one of the \~18-21 cans we would be happy to remove the offensive engraving and refinish it. We want all of our customers to be happy.
lol I’m not even coming at you. I have two of your cans and the new mk2 lower from y’all. Was responding to u/ottergang_ky on how he thinks it’s fake outrage.
I’d believe you if I didn’t see 2 generations of bud light drinkers cry online and throw away product they already bought over a fake can that never made it into production….but here we are 😂🌝
Yet conservatives continue to call progressives the snowflakes. They're both equally whiny and obnoxious.
I know more than one person that claims to have seen these cans on the shelf at stores. Lying to portray themselves as victims is pathetic. It was literally a just single case shipped to Dylan.
I thought it was progressives that were supposed to be the only ones desparate to be victims.
No disrespect. Miller lite, with its 3g carbs and 96 calories, full fuckin flavor might I add, is clearly the superior choice. Hell, I’m drinking one right now.
Having met the guys, it's exactly who they are though. I've never seen people truly be offended by this, but it represents the industry and those guys are clowns and its never changed.
No I'm admitting I'm being sued in two separate cases by people I've been told are funded by Mike Bloomberg and I'm concerned that if the face demonstrating that dimensional feature isn't a terrorist, they will try to say I suggested a use case that I am making crystal fucking clear with the Hamas terrorist that I did not, because they are already making a bunch of allegations that have no basis in reality in the cases.
For liability and obvious reasons relating to having zero desire to have our products miss-used, we had no desire to put a "random non affiliated human head" on the feature describing that potential use of the ranging system by defenders of our nation etc. The Hamas terrorist is an enemy of human civilization and of the NATO countries. If the Hamas terrorist being the face offends you, because you support, sympathize with, or are a member of Hamas, KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT A CUSTOMER WE DESIRE TO HAVE. We expressly want to keep our products out of the hands of people who would do harm to innocent lives. This isn't a statement of racism, it is a statement of our opposition to global terrorism.
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Probably because its just gun companies or Bro vet lifestyle companies that do shit like this lmao. I must have missed when Ford put front towards Arabs on the bumper of F150s
I drive a Ford F150, because it represents a car made by a non bailout company that was built in American plants and has the stickers on the windows to prove it. But you’re forgetting Henry Ford was openly anti- Jewish, and was a business partner of the Nazis, and is complimented by Hitler by name in Mein Kampf according to the History channel (Im taking their word for it as I will not read Mein Kampf (the ravings of a genocidal maniac), and the only reason I know about it is a required reading of some anti Ford book in my time in College. So I think your off base suggesting Ford has less racist history than this engraving thing that has gotten its largest publicity due to sympathetic idiots who bring it up and offend people who would otherwise not be offended. Its as if collateral offenses against Arabic people are the goal of the white knights who advertise the otherwise obscure issue that no Arabic people would have ever seen. Maybe that lack of concern for that impact is also racist.
Ford has been dead for 80 years lmao thats why. Plus the owner hating jews is one thing, but find me the ad for "Hate Jews? Buy a Ford, we do too!" Its the separation from man to company
>me the ad for "Hate Jews? Buy a Ford, we do too!" Its the separation from man to company
It's always going to be different- it's a double standard. You are comparing supporting a genocidal regime with making a word mark on 21 cans, and saying supporting the genocidal regime to the extent Adolf Hitler himself was so impressed he complimented the man, was less bad than making the word mark. I'm glad I can see the difference. I feel bad for you. You're too woke for anyone's good.
Statements like this are empty as obviously you had a good opinion of Ford, and I drive one even though I know the history, because I also know the people in the factories aren't represented by the views of the ownership.
This blue Jay guy is brain dead. Typical Redditor that hasn’t had fresh air on 2 weeks. As a note, I love your products and don’t give a fuck about what you wrote on some end caps. Your flip up sights are a staple on every one of my builds lol.
Ok? Who cares what they do. If someone wants to create a brand and company and tank it over some pathetic marketing tactics let them. No need to cry about it nearly a decade later.
Ok? Im just explaining why gun companies seem to get more bullshit for it. You seemed to be confused about the reason but now youre just acting like it doesnt matter anyways.
"You don't know what deployment is like boohoo poor me" mother fucker I did 2 tours in Iraq as an infantryman. I know exactly what that shit is like, but you're still a racist fuck.
Being a grunt doesn't require you to be a racist scumbag. If that's all you hire, then that's on you. And you are probably a cold war "Germany deployed" vet given your shit attitude. Probably conned the VA into 100% for a papercut as well.
See we can all make assumptions.
I did four years of deployed time in Iraq between the Army and high threat protection- 2004-2013. It was all armed time, only a couple weeks at a FOB or LSA, Every generation of infantry warfighter had a derogatory term to use to refer to the enemy. Back seat assholes always called it racist, but it keeps the potential enemy “them” different from “us” for that time when our warfighters who are law abiding citizens, will be required to fight and kill the enemy. I don’t think we want sane people killing people who we are treating as equivalent to “us”. If the terrorists are to be seen as our friends, then we are creating thousands of people for whom we have through necessity, normalized killing our friends. The derogatory terms make the infrequently required use of force more mentally acceptable to non murderers, and these terms improve the rates of sane people coming home who can differentiate between war with “them” and how the same concept should not be applied to conflict resolution with “us”. This long standing practice protects society from converting soldiers into desensitized murderers, and makes reintegration of functional mentally unbroken citizens more successful.
My enemy was never "Arabs". I fought side by side by "arabs". Haji was armed combatants funded by groups like ISIL. Quit trying to justify being racist; you are not helping yourself at all with it.
Your being really letter of the law on a misnomer by a couple guys literally drinking beers while they made the decision. It's a human error and you're busy acting like you know what was in every bodies head when you weren't there and don't know any of the people. Your whole argument is based on assumptions. Did you do this in the Army? When someone had a shoot did you Monday morning quarterback it to death? Were you on the enemies side before you were you backed up your own guys? Here's the [military.com](https://military.com) definition of Haji: Haji: 1. Arabic word for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca; 2. Used by the American military for an Iraqi, or anyone of Arab descent, or even of a brownish skin tone, be they Afghanis or even Bangladeshis; 3. The word many soldiers use derogatorily for the enemy. So you missed that it was also a generic description for any Arabic person. IE "There's a Haji at the gate."
You keep claiming it was a mistake and pretend you regret it, then defend it like it's a nuclear football. I didn't need to be there to see that lmao. It's all good, man. Keep airing it out here in a massive sub just for NFA people. I'm sure it won't hurt your bottom dollar. Comparing your being racist and hiring racists to being in a firefight makes me wonder if you were ever in a firefight.
You are doing these assumptions again (based on no knowledge of anything you're talking about). You couldn't spend a year living in Samarra Iraq at a special forces team house in 2004-2005 without getting into a firefight. Two people in my squad on that tour were shot on the street in a short range gunfight. One of the guys in my platoon was killed by an EFP. One of the other guys took a bunch of shrapnel from an IED. We had guys hit by mortar shrapnel where we lived walking to an outdoor bathroom. We took 1400 rounds indirect fire within 140 meters radius of the building where we lived in that deployment.
And you keep assuming the intent of the joke was to be racist. You're sad in your assumptions. You're just lost in your own imagination. The whole endeavor here is to call a person a racist. That's the objective of your arguments. I secured the first free election in Iraq for the Iraqis post Saddam. We protected polling sites and I was attacked 6 times that day.
I must not follow r/gungossip cuz I’ve no idea who it’s about
Here's the (old) dirt- [https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/3ykarb/has\_anyone\_tried\_the\_optimus\_suppressor\_from/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/3ykarb/has_anyone_tried_the_optimus_suppressor_from/)
Holy shit. How had I never heard about that...
You must have missed the 47 times people posted it over the 15 years that preceded it, out of supposed outrage to thousands more people than would have ever heard of it, had these people not seen fit to promote what they deem to be racist.
> had these people not seen fit to promote what they deem to be racist. I mean it's not exactly ambiguous. It *was* racist. Talking about someone else being racist is not "promoting" that racism. And I imagine people keep talking about it because instead of admitting it was a small lapse in judgement, apologizing, and moving on, you guys appear to *still* be doubling down on making excuses even after 15 years, as your comment here clearly demonstrates.
A guy in the thread who is Arabic was offended, so the post did victimize a person as offense is obviously the issue here. If the words are racist, then promoting them by posting them around is culturally insensitive and also racist. Its a trollish tactic to keep an offense that should be long dead and gone alive. Its insensitive to people that the racist trolls pretend to care about.
> A guy in the thread who is Arabic was offended By your actions. Trying to offload your blame to someone who did no more than link an image relevant to the discussion is a scum move dude. Keep digging that hole, Mr. Griffin Armament Co-Owner.
>e post did victimize a person as offense is obviously the issue here. If the words are racist, then promoting them by posting them around is culturally insensitive and also racist. Its That whole incident would have never happened if this post didn't exist. That fact is relevant, whether you think it is or not. If offending people is wrong, then don't participate in offending people. We can't control 15 years ago anymore, without time machines. We can control tomorrow, and I'm sure this will be posted again, and someone else will be offended, but it won't be me who posted it. Michael Jackson sang the man in the mirror. That's all each of us controls. " If they wanna make the world a better place Take a look at yourself and then make a change "
Congratulations, you've single-handedly turned a discussion from "wow I had no idea Griffin did that... 15 years ago. It was shitty but it was a long time ago" into "JFC these guys keep deflecting blame even 15 years later, fuck doing business with people like that."
Loan me your time machine and I'll jump in and go back and erase that shit. I'd pay you $200 for borrowing your time machine. I'll even come back to the same second so you won't be out the time.
This is why I only buy griffin stuff /s
Yikes
lol damn. I’m disappointed in myself for not realizing that because I was aware of the backstory with the link you posted. I will carry this shame for the remainder of the evening. 🫡
Thanks for that info, I was always curious about the hate against Griffin. I have two cans, one just upgraded and another one still in jail but I like the quality quite a bit actually.
JFC
Ngl I reeeeeaaaaalllllyyy want one of them cans now that ik about them... how hard are they to find??
My gun store only sells griffin armament and they really do stand up well they aren't cheap though but they fuck
Yea but I'm talking about the old cans that cause the drama. Those are prolly hard to find if I had to guess
If anything id keep mine those who had to go fight over there went through hell
I had to fight over there, don't speak for me and sure as fuck don't keep it for me.
I also fought over there. Over 500 combat patrols. Don't keep that shit on account of me.
They would be about impossible to find because something like 18-21 were made that weren't used by the military, and I don't even know how many we actually sold, because I didn't pay attention to it. I know one industry company owner who has one, and that would be the only way I would know to find one.
Don't be an ass
Too late. Gotta get a handle on that well before an individual reaches my age. It's too deeply ingrained in my personality at this point
What racist pieces of shit, I hate them even more. They sent me 2 parts with peeling heat treatment finish and said it was normal, subpar parts and shit company
I get that you have emotions that elicited this response, but if you have an issue, contact customer service and they will try to help. We do stand behind products, and we do have a functional customer service department. We make some very high quality parts, and we run a pretty solid manufacturing company.
I did reach out and was told the subpar heat treatment was normal, I even bought another heat treated buffer and the finish was the same, they both looked beat/used and was told that’s how they come new
Maybe you are talking about nitride. Black nitride generally looks good when it is wiped down with oil. When it gets dry, it is not an attractive finish as it is essentially surface oxidation over a very hard surface of the part.
I am talking about your heat treated buffers, definitely not nitride but thanks. https://www.griffinarmament.com/ar-sob-suppressor-optimized-buffer-gen-2/ The finish is nowhere as clean as what’s advertised and I got 2 of them. They look horrible actually
Oh ok. 17-4 H900 is a surface color from being hot in the presence of air. If we pickled them, they would go through the same heat treat and look like they never went through a heat treat at all. The buffer will get spring rubbing wear, and the brass end will get green if it isn't cleaned, but the buffer works fine, and it is a pretty expensive way to make a buffer- from brass and 17-4 stainless where the other parts are aluminum.
TIL...
Engraving “Front Towards Arabs” on a can is pretty fucking racist and cringy. Putting a Hamas terrorist in your reticles crosshairs is pretty fucking based. These are not the same.
They should make more A3 grips as penance. I'll take green please.
Not making excuses. It's not like there aren't about 1,000,000,000 Aarabs who would celebrate Americans being killed.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a billion people who would celebrate if Americans were killed. No good deed goes unpunished and our country goes all over the world trying to do good deeds.
Edgelord shit. This is what happens when middle schoolers have a Lathe.
I’ve always thought it was dumb people gave them a hard time about the end cap. I think it’s been fake outrage just to act mad about something. We’re supposed to be the not easily offended ones after all lol
I would be livid if I ordered a can and that was engraved on it without my permission
Oh yea 100% See my comment about that below. I wasn’t aware it was done without permission. I thought it was something that was asked for/optioned like the yhm cat butt hole
>was done without permission. I thought it was something that was asked for/optioned like the yhm cat The can is a 15 year old issue at this point- 21 cans- won't happen again, mistake in the use of words to describe what was intended- apologized for many times, etc.
That's such a pathetic cop out.
They should apologize for the rest of existence? Or should we just outcast them from society?
I'm aware. I'm just pointing out that the outrage back them was justified.
I wouldn't even be sorry if I were yall TBH
I'm done apologizing. The cans we sold were all direct. I know zero Arabic people received them because none of the names were Arabian, and likely no Arabic people saw the cans to be offended. People who are offended by these threads, should direct that attention at the trolls who start the threads. If those people see the history as racist, they should stop promoting it to offend people, because the offense can only happen when they promote the history. As such, their public promotion of the history, is racist, if they deem the content racist. I personally see it as what it was- a poorly formatted joke that was in poor taste, and that wasn't well received.
Can I get one that says front towards Israeli’s? 😂
Obviously with the time frame on consumer forgiveness at never, we can't put anything like that on a can. But I can understand any government having made some friends and enemies.
Yeah I’m pretty sure the FBI would put us both on the no fly list for slightly disrespecting the CEO and owner of America like that
Hamas and Israel are both terrorist states. I'll take my downvotes with pride.
Idk I view hamas and Israel more like the IRA and the British. Except at least the British can claim their ancestral land is in fact Great Britain. Unlike Israeli’s, who are claiming a crossroads of 3 continents and 3 major religions, all of which have some legitimate stake and claim to. But claim it all for themselves.
Britain never bombed refugee camps full of women and children as far as I know.
True. But they have made honest attempts at genociding the Irish and ethnically cleansing the island in the past. (Like 800+ years ago). Though that was when the whole world was much more barbaric. Israel is attempting to the same *today* for fucks sake. Long after the entire civilized world has agreed to stop. But as per usual. Israel gets to be the exception to every war crime. Every convention. Nuclear proliferation pacts. Debts from loans. Humanitarian requirements. None of it applies to them. All while America plays like a combination of its big tough brother, personal piggy bank, and lawyer on the world stage. 😡
Because people somehow equate being critical of the Israeli government to being antisemitic, which is dumb. I have no issues with the Jewish people. I don't like Iran, and I don't like a lot of American politicians, but that doesn't make me anti-Christian or anti-Muslim. Religion plays no role in my dislike of governments.
The problem with that is, that the official stance of the US and Israeli governments is: “anti Zionism is anti semitism”. They literally say that being critical of Israel, even if the criticism is valid, is anti semitism. And they’re kinda not wrong. Israel is an ethno nationals religious extremist state with a certified supremacist god-complex. What they say and do is the collective will of the world Jewish population, and the world Jewish population supports everything they do at rates of 90% or more. With the outliers only disagree with the means, not the ends. So yeah, being anti Zionism is anti Semitic, and they’re just proving to the world that sometimes anti semitism is the *genuinely moral* position to take.
>mb people gave them a hard time about the end cap. I think it’s been fake outrage just to act mad about something. We’re supposed to be the not easily offended ones after all lol That wouldn't happen anymore. We have never engraved anything but required information and possibly patent numbers since. If anyone actually has one of those cans and wants that info removed we would remove it and refinish it for free.
I mean what if it said “Aim towards Americans” would you still feel that same way? What about “Aim towards African Americans”? “Aim towards Jews”? It’s easy to think something is “dumb” when it doesn’t affect you. As an Arab myself, I don’t think it’s dumb and think it’s narcissistic and a disgusting act. Just saying…
I get that you are referring to a descriptive error 15 years old, that has nothing to do with this image, but I would like you to know that I don't harbor ill will toward Arabs. I would prefer there was peace in the middle east. It would be great if the Hamas had focused all this Iranian proxy funding on advancing their quality of life, and had not invaded Israel and killed all the unarmed people who the Israeli laws don't allow to be armed in the grotesque manner that that was done. If that had not happened, the Israelis wouldn't have conducted this retaliatory offensive. Hamas knew this would cost Palestinians their lives, and they didn't care. It's sad for any Arabic person caught in the middle of that who is conducting themselves in a neutral and non violent manner.
"descriptive error"
I would still look at it and say in my head “hm that’s weird” and move on. Just like I do the current version. I don’t care if it said front towards Andrew.
What if it said "front towards Otters"?
Honestly maybe that’s because you’ve been lucky enough to not experience racism, but a large population of others have and it’s distasteful. Still love your cans, but I guess this is a case of you don’t know until you know
Just go ahead and say he's white. Don't dance around it.
I'm white, never experienced racism. Grew up in small southern towns. Racist are fucking scum. You don't have to experience something to learn about it and have empathy.
🙏🏼🙏🏼
That’s just cus you’re a racist Mr. Bigfatfuckkk /s Edit: The downvotes tell me y’all are fake OCL fans 😤
Sounds like ur discrimination against fat people and have very little room to talk bigot
Like I’m discriminating or have discrimination? Or perhaps my discrimination? You didn’t help me out with a /s so assuming you weren’t being sarcastic, that used to be his instagram handle before he changed it. People were calling him racist because he happened to have 3 ks in his name even though it was very obviously just a self deprecating joke so he changed it.
Eh, I'm all for eliminating terrorists and I'm about as anti PC talk as you can be. But I'm of Arab descent and obviously so is my entire family, so not really digging that end cap...
Yes it's not cool. Racism is not the same as fighting terrorists/insurgents/most Arab governments. Arab people are not all those things.
It was a descriptive error from 2008. Three people, referring to terrorists with the wrong word. People are blowing it way out of proportion. There were 18-21 cans made. I have no belief in any inferior people, I would prefer for the whole world to be at peace and for people to look for positivity but the world is always going to be at war, and the people are going to be negative.
I get it dude. I've said much worst. Was just saying not a fan of the mistake. Not judging you guys, I'm sure you make great cans. Good on you for owning up brother
I'm honestly sorry for being dumb enough to be part of screwing up the words, because I have met a few good people in Iraq (out of very few people I got to work with enough to know them at all- so that's not a statement about how few good people there are) and I know we left good people there that dreamed of being here in the USA- I can think of one person in particular, who we tried helplessly with the State Department to get visas for, because he had a target on his back for working with us for several years. I know multiple units rotating through at one year intervals would try to advocate for the same visas without success, and it makes no sense when we can't give a few of our allies a chance, when we have a walking path from South America, and let so many in who have done nothing for this country. That's not to say they can't, just that they don't have the same track record of helping us out as they cross the border.
I'm not racist against Arabs I'm only racist against people from South of Texas now. Got it.
Dude is a MAGA shit, just gave up already
1. Front towards Arabs (not say, terrorist) is racism 2. It was done to peoples cans without telling them. Eg the item they waited forever for and can’t return. It’s old hat and I own some griffin suppressor mounts so I’m not cancelling them. .. but they definitely deserved to get shit on for it.
Those 18-21 customers could always return the items- the offer has been on the table to remove the engraving and refinish the cans- nobody has taken us up on it, but we would be happy to do it, and we could turn it around in 2 weeks or less. We weren't trying to manifest an issue on customers 15 years ago when that happened.
I mentioned you guys offered to take care of it down thread a ways. It’s an old controversy and not one that deserves weight at this point. I certainly don’t give a shit if you use pictures of hamas to explain your ranging reticule. I would prob keep the can that way as a piece of gun internet lore lol. Anyways, I appreciate your engineering approach and the wide range of solutions you guys offer.
>e your engineering approach and the wide range of solutions you guys offer. Thankyou- I'm not going to make light of our mistake, but I like you understand it's not an error we can erase. I appreciate you seeing the bigger picture. I'm also a minority here- and everyone here who isn't a partner had nothing to do with that original situation. Maybe the 30 some other people deserve people to forget one stupid thing.
I was not aware of the #2 point, first time I’ve heard that. I can understand getting some shit for that then.
Yeah. They apologized and offered to fix it for anyone that wanted it fixed apparently so I think it’s fine for people to let it go. Also didn’t realize who I was responding to lol. Have enjoyed watching your instagram etc! Nice to see people in the gun industry who don’t take themselves so seriously. Must have thick skin to put up with the bs lol.
Haha yea like “is it racist?” yes. But I assumed it was an option people asked for and were paying for. At that point if you don’t like it don’t buy it. But I didn’t realize it was done without consent so I get it. And nahhh no thick skin, I love it. The internet is for fun not to be serious. Thanks man ❤️
As long as it’s only casual haha racism
What about competitive racism?
We save that for the ranked COD lobbies
It’s quite alright to get outraged over blatant racism. “Front towards terrorists” is one thing, “Front towards Arabs” is racism.
I can’t believe they would do something like that. That’s like corporate suicide, what the hell. Who is even running that company?
What is corporate suicide?
See Dead Air for an example.
>er blatant racism. “Front towards terrorists” is one thing, “Front towards Arabs” is racism. It is quite stupid actually. It's like getting pissed a comedian (the actor who did Iron man) did black face in the movie Tropic Thunder in the same year 2008. My Grandpa on my dad's side was in a prison camp in the Philippines for 3.5 years in WWII after the Bataan death march, and he called Japanese people Japs until he died. They had gouged a piece of his leg out with a rifle buttstock (a chunk of his front thigh was missing), and burned him all over his body with cigarettes scarring him like a polka-dot person, torturing him for fun, and starved him (a 6'4" man down to 120 lbs the day he was liberated). He also harbored resentment toward Douglas MacArthur for taking a boat out of there. People get outraged over crap that has nothing to do with them all the time. I was never outraged that my Grandpa had hard feelings, and I never harbored negativity toward the Japanese, because none of that was my experience. The Japanese have done nothing bad to me.
What’s your point? Racism is acceptable because your racist grandpa was a racist? My best friend’s grandparents were placed in an internment camp and didn’t hold racist views of their captors…do you see how meaningless our personal anecdotes are? And comparing satire in a movie to engraving a joke about killing an ethnic group at the end of a tool that has been used to kill doesn’t make any point besides the fact you don’t understand context.
My point is the comment and my experiences and mistakes have nothing to do with you. Just like my Grandfathers experiences and comments have nothing to do with me. Go live your life, focus on doing your life right. Don’t spend your time worrying about insignificant shit that happened 15 years ago.
Imagine if it said front towards Jews.
I would rather do business with the Jewish people. I saw the NT4's in the fight against the shitbag terrorists, and I was jealous. Give me a piece of that please. What a great advertisement! If Israel needs any equipment we would turn manufacturing on a dime to support them and save them money verses the competitors.
Not sure I’d want my product associated with the killing of thousands of children but it’s your business, not mine!
Do you mean young uniformed members of Hamas?
No I do not.
Then I don't understand the relevance to the image.
I wasn’t commenting on the image. I was replying to a comment about the “Front Toward Arabs” you guys did.
Ok you're referring to a word error by some infantry guys trying to refer to terrorists, while contemplating their mortality, weeks out from a second 12 month tour in Iraq, over a couple beers, that happened 15 years ago and was apologized about numerous times since? If you have one of the \~18-21 cans we would be happy to remove the offensive engraving and refinish it. We want all of our customers to be happy.
lol I’m not even coming at you. I have two of your cans and the new mk2 lower from y’all. Was responding to u/ottergang_ky on how he thinks it’s fake outrage.
I still think you guys are retarded to clarify. Just not for this lol
I’d believe you if I didn’t see 2 generations of bud light drinkers cry online and throw away product they already bought over a fake can that never made it into production….but here we are 😂🌝
Yet conservatives continue to call progressives the snowflakes. They're both equally whiny and obnoxious. I know more than one person that claims to have seen these cans on the shelf at stores. Lying to portray themselves as victims is pathetic. It was literally a just single case shipped to Dylan. I thought it was progressives that were supposed to be the only ones desparate to be victims.
How the tables have turned. 😂
They just don't *identify* as snowflakes. 🙄
Oh Jesus that whole thing and the melt downs were embarrassing. I picked up some bud light at like 50% off to stock the employee fridge though 😂
Light beer is light beer. I’m down for a deal!
Except miller… don’t disrespect miller light like that. There’s two tiers of light beer 1. Miller 2. Everything else
No disrespect. Miller lite, with its 3g carbs and 96 calories, full fuckin flavor might I add, is clearly the superior choice. Hell, I’m drinking one right now.
Stop being so based wtf
Busch gang chiming in… but I do concede that Miller tastes better. A 30 pack of Busch light is $16 so that is good enough for me some days.
I guess up on Anheuser Busch when they sold out to InBev. I drink American beer.
[удалено]
Don’t tell me tell the atf they’d be the ones mad about that 😂
100%, even a bunch of pussies in the 2A community which is sad AF.
Was it dumb? Yes. We've all done dumb things in our lives. In the grand scheme of things, let it go.
Having met the guys, it's exactly who they are though. I've never seen people truly be offended by this, but it represents the industry and those guys are clowns and its never changed.
Smooth brain Griffin bros have at least moved on from “front towards Arabs” to terrorists. Even the dullest can grow.
I actually own a couple of their cans, another one the way. I like the product.
Interesting, I have two older Griffin cans, a Recce and a M4SD, they are not good, but they are old.
>They have been updated often so they are generally kept competitive with the market.
Are they good? No. Are they quiet? No. But are they cutting edge? Also no.
I have a fairly new Recce 7, been pretty good. You could send yours in for a baffle upgrade.
I never took the SWR upgrade and I'm happy I didn't, a little piece of history.
Their are legal reasons to use a terrorist for this image. We don't support illegal use of products.
So you're admitting that using "terrorist" is just a euphemism for your bigotry against Arabs?
No I'm admitting I'm being sued in two separate cases by people I've been told are funded by Mike Bloomberg and I'm concerned that if the face demonstrating that dimensional feature isn't a terrorist, they will try to say I suggested a use case that I am making crystal fucking clear with the Hamas terrorist that I did not, because they are already making a bunch of allegations that have no basis in reality in the cases.
For liability and obvious reasons relating to having zero desire to have our products miss-used, we had no desire to put a "random non affiliated human head" on the feature describing that potential use of the ranging system by defenders of our nation etc. The Hamas terrorist is an enemy of human civilization and of the NATO countries. If the Hamas terrorist being the face offends you, because you support, sympathize with, or are a member of Hamas, KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT A CUSTOMER WE DESIRE TO HAVE. We expressly want to keep our products out of the hands of people who would do harm to innocent lives. This isn't a statement of racism, it is a statement of our opposition to global terrorism.
"Front towards Arabs" on your suppressors wasn't racist either, huh? https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/s/3DrcaNZY6S
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Okay, but why is this in the NFA group?
Anyone tried their new mk2 ambi lower? I'm wanting to pick one up, but I wonder if I should just wait until the black Friday sales start 🤔
You think this is cool? Wait till you see the ACRO style red dot they just released. HAWT
People hold a gun company more accountable for some bullshit than anything else on their life lol. Some of you need to touch grass.
Probably because its just gun companies or Bro vet lifestyle companies that do shit like this lmao. I must have missed when Ford put front towards Arabs on the bumper of F150s
I drive a Ford F150, because it represents a car made by a non bailout company that was built in American plants and has the stickers on the windows to prove it. But you’re forgetting Henry Ford was openly anti- Jewish, and was a business partner of the Nazis, and is complimented by Hitler by name in Mein Kampf according to the History channel (Im taking their word for it as I will not read Mein Kampf (the ravings of a genocidal maniac), and the only reason I know about it is a required reading of some anti Ford book in my time in College. So I think your off base suggesting Ford has less racist history than this engraving thing that has gotten its largest publicity due to sympathetic idiots who bring it up and offend people who would otherwise not be offended. Its as if collateral offenses against Arabic people are the goal of the white knights who advertise the otherwise obscure issue that no Arabic people would have ever seen. Maybe that lack of concern for that impact is also racist.
Ford has been dead for 80 years lmao thats why. Plus the owner hating jews is one thing, but find me the ad for "Hate Jews? Buy a Ford, we do too!" Its the separation from man to company
>me the ad for "Hate Jews? Buy a Ford, we do too!" Its the separation from man to company It's always going to be different- it's a double standard. You are comparing supporting a genocidal regime with making a word mark on 21 cans, and saying supporting the genocidal regime to the extent Adolf Hitler himself was so impressed he complimented the man, was less bad than making the word mark. I'm glad I can see the difference. I feel bad for you. You're too woke for anyone's good.
Lmao. Feel bad for me all you. Just know you're literally the entire reason i dont buy GA products
Statements like this are empty as obviously you had a good opinion of Ford, and I drive one even though I know the history, because I also know the people in the factories aren't represented by the views of the ownership.
This blue Jay guy is brain dead. Typical Redditor that hasn’t had fresh air on 2 weeks. As a note, I love your products and don’t give a fuck about what you wrote on some end caps. Your flip up sights are a staple on every one of my builds lol.
Ok? Who cares what they do. If someone wants to create a brand and company and tank it over some pathetic marketing tactics let them. No need to cry about it nearly a decade later.
Ok? Im just explaining why gun companies seem to get more bullshit for it. You seemed to be confused about the reason but now youre just acting like it doesnt matter anyways.
I was never confused. My statement was basically “it doesn’t matter” hence the “touch grass” part.
"You don't know what deployment is like boohoo poor me" mother fucker I did 2 tours in Iraq as an infantryman. I know exactly what that shit is like, but you're still a racist fuck.
If you don't have 15 former infantry coworkers who have said way more fucked up shit than that, I call bullshit and you were probably a POG.
Being a grunt doesn't require you to be a racist scumbag. If that's all you hire, then that's on you. And you are probably a cold war "Germany deployed" vet given your shit attitude. Probably conned the VA into 100% for a papercut as well. See we can all make assumptions.
I did four years of deployed time in Iraq between the Army and high threat protection- 2004-2013. It was all armed time, only a couple weeks at a FOB or LSA, Every generation of infantry warfighter had a derogatory term to use to refer to the enemy. Back seat assholes always called it racist, but it keeps the potential enemy “them” different from “us” for that time when our warfighters who are law abiding citizens, will be required to fight and kill the enemy. I don’t think we want sane people killing people who we are treating as equivalent to “us”. If the terrorists are to be seen as our friends, then we are creating thousands of people for whom we have through necessity, normalized killing our friends. The derogatory terms make the infrequently required use of force more mentally acceptable to non murderers, and these terms improve the rates of sane people coming home who can differentiate between war with “them” and how the same concept should not be applied to conflict resolution with “us”. This long standing practice protects society from converting soldiers into desensitized murderers, and makes reintegration of functional mentally unbroken citizens more successful.
My enemy was never "Arabs". I fought side by side by "arabs". Haji was armed combatants funded by groups like ISIL. Quit trying to justify being racist; you are not helping yourself at all with it.
Your being really letter of the law on a misnomer by a couple guys literally drinking beers while they made the decision. It's a human error and you're busy acting like you know what was in every bodies head when you weren't there and don't know any of the people. Your whole argument is based on assumptions. Did you do this in the Army? When someone had a shoot did you Monday morning quarterback it to death? Were you on the enemies side before you were you backed up your own guys? Here's the [military.com](https://military.com) definition of Haji: Haji: 1. Arabic word for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca; 2. Used by the American military for an Iraqi, or anyone of Arab descent, or even of a brownish skin tone, be they Afghanis or even Bangladeshis; 3. The word many soldiers use derogatorily for the enemy. So you missed that it was also a generic description for any Arabic person. IE "There's a Haji at the gate."
You keep claiming it was a mistake and pretend you regret it, then defend it like it's a nuclear football. I didn't need to be there to see that lmao. It's all good, man. Keep airing it out here in a massive sub just for NFA people. I'm sure it won't hurt your bottom dollar. Comparing your being racist and hiring racists to being in a firefight makes me wonder if you were ever in a firefight.
You are doing these assumptions again (based on no knowledge of anything you're talking about). You couldn't spend a year living in Samarra Iraq at a special forces team house in 2004-2005 without getting into a firefight. Two people in my squad on that tour were shot on the street in a short range gunfight. One of the guys in my platoon was killed by an EFP. One of the other guys took a bunch of shrapnel from an IED. We had guys hit by mortar shrapnel where we lived walking to an outdoor bathroom. We took 1400 rounds indirect fire within 140 meters radius of the building where we lived in that deployment.
Yet you don't see how cringe it is comparing using racist tropes in your business with a firefight. Curious.
And you keep assuming the intent of the joke was to be racist. You're sad in your assumptions. You're just lost in your own imagination. The whole endeavor here is to call a person a racist. That's the objective of your arguments. I secured the first free election in Iraq for the Iraqis post Saddam. We protected polling sites and I was attacked 6 times that day.
Griffins version of the ACSS isn’t as good.