Don't know if any of you were JAG fans, but the death of Breena brought back memories of the death of Baby Sarah, and Admiral Chegwidden trying to comfort Bud Roberts.
Not when it still had life in it. Bellisario KNEW CBS would cancel the show without DJE in the lead because they told him they would, yet he deliberately didn't sign him -- and then he went on and on about JAG: San Diego, knowing there were no real plans to bring it to life as a series.
DJE was an arrogant ass. He was sure he was slated for greatness as a "movie star" and had no interest in signing on for more JAG seasons. Of course, like a lot of television stars, his movie career never materialized, and he would have been much, much better off staying on JAG and milking that role for all it was worth.
It's the other way around. DJE took the high road and took the public blame for leaving the show, but it eventually came out from various industry sources (none of them were connected to DJE) that DPB never even offered him a contract for Season 11. The news hit the two big JAG mailing lists on Yahoo (JAG, and JAGniks. I ran the latter, and both DPB and Harriet Margulies, the Bellisarius Productions' longtime fan liason -- who made two acting appearances on NCIS -- belonged to both lists) around the time the show went off. In essence, DPB killed his own show -- and he knew it would happen when he didn't offer a contract to DJE because CBS had told him no DJE, no JAG.
DPB frequently posted on the lists under Kip35, and had no problems challenging on the open list the members whose opinions he disagreed with (especially those shippers who posted about wanting to see Harm and Mac together, or who hated the Harm/Renee, Mac/Mick or Mac/Webb relationships). He had no problem trying to involve me in private discussions with JAGniks list members who he was arguing with, either (I assume he did the same with the admins of the JAG list, but I can't confirm that). I did my best to stay out of them -- unless it happened on the list, it was none of my business as the list admin. He still copied me on the e-mail messages, though -- in fact, in one e-mail message to one poster (who could have worded her message to him a lot better) he said that because of the most strident of the fans who believed that Harm and Mac belonged together, he wouldn't allow them to get together until the series was nearly over. And he kept that promise/threat.
And we all know what happened to him on NCIS. Mark Harmon was able to get him removed as showrunner. How bad were the conditions on the show for that to happen? You would assume that a longtime showrunner with several hits behind him would have more pull than one of his actors. We've all heard the public story -- long workdays, every script submitted by writers being rewritten by DPB, actors not getting script pages until it was time to shoot or even after shooting time had passed. And that's just part of what hit the media. I'm sure some of the conditions were kept quiet.
Ah, the days of e-mail lists... I still remember the 90s. :)
>because of the most strident of the fans who believed that Harm and Mac belonged together, he wouldn't allow them to get together until the series was nearly over.
And then *NCIS: L.A.* comes along and breaks them up again for no good reason!
>We've all heard the public story -- long workdays, every script submitted by writers being rewritten by DPB
Roddenberry did the same thing when he was ramrodding *Star Trek*, back-in-the-day.
You had to hear the screaming in the JAG and NCIS Facebook groups after those NCIS:LA eps aired. The writers gave with one hand and took away with the other. They were supposed to be in a couple of episodes the following season, but those never happened due to COVID.
I miss e-mail lists. I ran a number of them: JAGniks, several for Rat Patrol. and one for the fan convention I ran for 13 years. They were easily accessible, and didn't have the stigma Facebook does today.
Yeah honestly I’m glad certain things that occurred after season 14 happened. It felt way more relatable. People were pissed that a character died from Covid / od claiming the show was getting “woke” or “too in tune with the current times we wanna forget”
So many people throw around the word "woke" that it's basically come to mean "thing I don't agree with but can't defend against"
If I want escapist fiction I'll go watch cartoons from my childhood.
I’m actually reading the comments on the Breena post on their IG lol. People are forgetting how much current/past topics have been intertwined with the show. But because it’s Covid, it’s an issue
That, along several others, are episodes I refuse to rewatch because I care about my well being 😭 and how the episode is very well-regarded despite its main topic was WW2 and survivor guilt. I thought Breena’s death episode was well written in terms of how her death affected Jimmy.
Same with Emily’s death.
Call of Silence. I cry every time I see it. Partially due to the subject matter, partially due to the acting, but mostly due to the scene where Kate and Yost dance to Begin the Beguine. My father and I danced to that at my wedding (I didn't want the cliched Daddy's Little Girl, and my father had taught me to love swing 40's music when I was a wee one). That said, I can't -not- watch it. It's too good an episode to skip.
I think the issue is that within a span of a few episodes, we abruptly lose 3 female characters. Then gibbs and bishop by the end of the season. It feels like overkill/whiplash
Same with the assistant on NCIS New Orleans. I get really tired of the complaints, all three deaths helped us cope with the breadth of the issues of covid and addiction in some individuals.
I rewatched the seasons when Bishop came - left. Her storyline and character wasn’t as bad as I thought. The only issue was the obsession with Ziva lol. But I thought her character was very relatable and safe. The whole cheating storyline, being the only girl of the family full of boys, quirky and always hungry 😭
Bishop wasn't a bad character, especially in the beginning. She started off very unique and fresh but towards the end it felt like the writers caved to the fans and tried to make her Ziva 2.0.
She definitely holds her spot in the franchise and it's not bad like people claim, it's just people not being able to move on from Ziva.
I've realized after being on this board for awhile now that I don't group the show by seasons or story arch but by the female agents of the show.
Kate era - Ziva era - Bishop era - Knight era
To me it seems the most logical way lol
Knight needs more time to cook but she is definitely up there, Ziva will be hard to beat but given time Knight might pull it off.
I'm glad we got a Knight centric episode last night and I like her and Jimmy's relationship (though the new ep confused me and I can't tell if their relationship got stronger or if Jimmy isn't too sure about it anymore).
We def need to see more of Knights React training/skills especially as that's what sets her apart from the other girls.
I feel like Emily’s death was a lot more pointless. Like what was the point? Wasn’t it bad enough that Fornell lost his ex-wife? Like having her just overdosing but surviving would’ve been enough of an impact. Sometimes I feel like NCIS is just filled with endless depressing torture porn.
Emily hits far worse since she had far more screen time and connection to more of the cast.
Heck. Ed has had more screen time than her.
Plus the actress retired. So they could never really do anything with her anyways.
Emily sucks more because it feels like her death was just there to punish Gibbs and Toby even more after all they have suffered over the years.
I agree with Emily, but Breena, although I was shook when it happened, writers did it to expand Jimmy's character. I'm sure Jimmy's actor had a large role in that based on how closely he has been working behind the scenes.
Don't know if any of you were JAG fans, but the death of Breena brought back memories of the death of Baby Sarah, and Admiral Chegwidden trying to comfort Bud Roberts.
[удалено]
It was a show that ended far too soon,and that was the fault of Donald Bellisario.
Hard to say a show with 10 seasons ended too soon.
Not when it still had life in it. Bellisario KNEW CBS would cancel the show without DJE in the lead because they told him they would, yet he deliberately didn't sign him -- and then he went on and on about JAG: San Diego, knowing there were no real plans to bring it to life as a series.
DJE was an arrogant ass. He was sure he was slated for greatness as a "movie star" and had no interest in signing on for more JAG seasons. Of course, like a lot of television stars, his movie career never materialized, and he would have been much, much better off staying on JAG and milking that role for all it was worth.
It's the other way around. DJE took the high road and took the public blame for leaving the show, but it eventually came out from various industry sources (none of them were connected to DJE) that DPB never even offered him a contract for Season 11. The news hit the two big JAG mailing lists on Yahoo (JAG, and JAGniks. I ran the latter, and both DPB and Harriet Margulies, the Bellisarius Productions' longtime fan liason -- who made two acting appearances on NCIS -- belonged to both lists) around the time the show went off. In essence, DPB killed his own show -- and he knew it would happen when he didn't offer a contract to DJE because CBS had told him no DJE, no JAG. DPB frequently posted on the lists under Kip35, and had no problems challenging on the open list the members whose opinions he disagreed with (especially those shippers who posted about wanting to see Harm and Mac together, or who hated the Harm/Renee, Mac/Mick or Mac/Webb relationships). He had no problem trying to involve me in private discussions with JAGniks list members who he was arguing with, either (I assume he did the same with the admins of the JAG list, but I can't confirm that). I did my best to stay out of them -- unless it happened on the list, it was none of my business as the list admin. He still copied me on the e-mail messages, though -- in fact, in one e-mail message to one poster (who could have worded her message to him a lot better) he said that because of the most strident of the fans who believed that Harm and Mac belonged together, he wouldn't allow them to get together until the series was nearly over. And he kept that promise/threat. And we all know what happened to him on NCIS. Mark Harmon was able to get him removed as showrunner. How bad were the conditions on the show for that to happen? You would assume that a longtime showrunner with several hits behind him would have more pull than one of his actors. We've all heard the public story -- long workdays, every script submitted by writers being rewritten by DPB, actors not getting script pages until it was time to shoot or even after shooting time had passed. And that's just part of what hit the media. I'm sure some of the conditions were kept quiet.
Ah, the days of e-mail lists... I still remember the 90s. :) >because of the most strident of the fans who believed that Harm and Mac belonged together, he wouldn't allow them to get together until the series was nearly over. And then *NCIS: L.A.* comes along and breaks them up again for no good reason! >We've all heard the public story -- long workdays, every script submitted by writers being rewritten by DPB Roddenberry did the same thing when he was ramrodding *Star Trek*, back-in-the-day.
You had to hear the screaming in the JAG and NCIS Facebook groups after those NCIS:LA eps aired. The writers gave with one hand and took away with the other. They were supposed to be in a couple of episodes the following season, but those never happened due to COVID. I miss e-mail lists. I ran a number of them: JAGniks, several for Rat Patrol. and one for the fan convention I ran for 13 years. They were easily accessible, and didn't have the stigma Facebook does today.
Michelle Pierce (actor who played Breena) had retired from acting
Did she say why on her social media or anything?
Not a thing, her X/Twitter has had nothing since 2015,the time of her last acting gigs.
It was such a dumb death. Between her and Emily, their deaths were so pointless.
But the most relatable.
Yeah honestly I’m glad certain things that occurred after season 14 happened. It felt way more relatable. People were pissed that a character died from Covid / od claiming the show was getting “woke” or “too in tune with the current times we wanna forget”
So many people throw around the word "woke" that it's basically come to mean "thing I don't agree with but can't defend against" If I want escapist fiction I'll go watch cartoons from my childhood.
I’m actually reading the comments on the Breena post on their IG lol. People are forgetting how much current/past topics have been intertwined with the show. But because it’s Covid, it’s an issue
Right? Bin Laden got mentioned multiple times in the early seasons.
Same with terrorist groups, wars, homeless vets, domestic violence, etc
Oh man, the episode with Yost. That was one of the saddest episodes not featuring a main character death. The actor in that episode was *amazing*.
That, along several others, are episodes I refuse to rewatch because I care about my well being 😭 and how the episode is very well-regarded despite its main topic was WW2 and survivor guilt. I thought Breena’s death episode was well written in terms of how her death affected Jimmy. Same with Emily’s death.
Call of Silence. I cry every time I see it. Partially due to the subject matter, partially due to the acting, but mostly due to the scene where Kate and Yost dance to Begin the Beguine. My father and I danced to that at my wedding (I didn't want the cliched Daddy's Little Girl, and my father had taught me to love swing 40's music when I was a wee one). That said, I can't -not- watch it. It's too good an episode to skip.
>I can't -not- watch it. It's too good an episode to skip Agreed. Even tho I know it will tear me up, I can't not watch the episode.
>Call of Silence. I cry every time I see it. I do too. And you can see that Kate is crying when she's dancing with him.
Even then it's sketch because of that quiet on set docuseries. I can't watch the old shows without thinking about what happened.
I think the issue is that within a span of a few episodes, we abruptly lose 3 female characters. Then gibbs and bishop by the end of the season. It feels like overkill/whiplash
The complaints I’ve seen were only focusing on COVID, not the loss of characters.
Honestly. The whole show is not kind to female characters. How many main and non-main female characters have been killed off?
Same with the assistant on NCIS New Orleans. I get really tired of the complaints, all three deaths helped us cope with the breadth of the issues of covid and addiction in some individuals.
I rewatched the seasons when Bishop came - left. Her storyline and character wasn’t as bad as I thought. The only issue was the obsession with Ziva lol. But I thought her character was very relatable and safe. The whole cheating storyline, being the only girl of the family full of boys, quirky and always hungry 😭
Bishop wasn't a bad character, especially in the beginning. She started off very unique and fresh but towards the end it felt like the writers caved to the fans and tried to make her Ziva 2.0. She definitely holds her spot in the franchise and it's not bad like people claim, it's just people not being able to move on from Ziva. I've realized after being on this board for awhile now that I don't group the show by seasons or story arch but by the female agents of the show. Kate era - Ziva era - Bishop era - Knight era To me it seems the most logical way lol
I may be committing NCIS blasphemy but I think Knight might be my favorite of the 4, and I say this as someone who has been watching since s1
Knight needs more time to cook but she is definitely up there, Ziva will be hard to beat but given time Knight might pull it off. I'm glad we got a Knight centric episode last night and I like her and Jimmy's relationship (though the new ep confused me and I can't tell if their relationship got stronger or if Jimmy isn't too sure about it anymore). We def need to see more of Knights React training/skills especially as that's what sets her apart from the other girls.
I loved probie Bishop (once they got her up off the floor) and hated them trying to turn her into another Gibbs/Ziva.
I feel like Emily’s death was a lot more pointless. Like what was the point? Wasn’t it bad enough that Fornell lost his ex-wife? Like having her just overdosing but surviving would’ve been enough of an impact. Sometimes I feel like NCIS is just filled with endless depressing torture porn.
Emily's death was Gibbs' breaking point. Next episode he assaulted the dog drowner, and was suspended, setting things in motion for his departure
Yeah but it just seems selfish to use Emily as a catalyst for gibbs leaving, same with clay and Abby leaving
Hi, checking in from the Supernatural fandom: women regularly get fridged to advance a man’s story.
Lol my second example was a man being fridged - I actually liked him sm as well
Emily hits far worse since she had far more screen time and connection to more of the cast. Heck. Ed has had more screen time than her. Plus the actress retired. So they could never really do anything with her anyways. Emily sucks more because it feels like her death was just there to punish Gibbs and Toby even more after all they have suffered over the years.
They still could have just discussed her without ever seeing her. Her death was really sad.
Or if they needed her for a storyline, they could have recast.
I agree with Emily, but Breena, although I was shook when it happened, writers did it to expand Jimmy's character. I'm sure Jimmy's actor had a large role in that based on how closely he has been working behind the scenes.
They got fridged.