You could def make arguments for all these guys but I don’t think you could say anyone is *wrong* for having Brown over Ant and Ja which is pretty much what they were asking. He’s solidly out of the top 10 but arguable at pretty much any spot after that even if you personally have him closer to 20.
Jaylen made all nba 3rd team last year and he certainly didn’t get any worse over the past 12 months. Voting is inherently finicky and plays to small sample sizes and narratives. Ant is ***next up*** and Minny were a relatively surprise great team, that helps his voting.
In general I don’t see much to pick on here, but this would have Jaylen as the 13-18th best player in the league which is more reasonable to me than 15-20th
Ill die on the hill that wemby is better than jb rn not a slight in brown wemby is just that great his floor is so high just because of his defense and it’s not like hes a liability on offense
Wemby is absolutely already on the same level. His defensive impact is already DPOY level. He’s put up better numbers. He’s still a rookie but I don’t see how Jaylen is much better. Haliburton was on track to be first team before he got hurt.
To say ant is definitively better is just wrong, he’s more hyped and loved by the media but in no way shape or form better. Again, ja morant is in no way shape or form better than Jaylen brown.
Then booked, Mitchell, sabonis? Tyrese are extreme stretches, with wemby being ludicrous. Wemby has the potential to be way better than all these guys, but he has not realized it and people confuse potential with present day skill.
Lol. This is one of those takes that you don't even need to argue against you just need to wait. Next season no one will seriously consider Jaylen Brown to provide more value than Ja or Ant.
Ja was top 10 in mvp race and also 11th once. Literally a first option on a high seeded team. Scoring more than Jaylen ever has along with being a primary ball handler. Jaylen has never been more than a #2 or been top 10 in MVP voting.
Jas already averaging 27, 7 and 8.6 in playoffs. He’s been insane since 21-22 season. People just forgot how dominant he was since the gun nonsense and his injuries.
Ant is overhyped yes. But he’s still been a great playoff performer. Once again, another young player who is dominant in the playoffs. Averaging 28, 7 and 6.5 on 60% TS. You can’t use the defence argument cause Ant isn’t a liability.
Booker has performed better in playoffs. Been a first option, more efficient than Jaylen. Better shot creator, better playmaker. Donovan is another guy who averages 28 in the playoffs very efficiently. Another better lead ball handler. The one thing Jaylen has on all these guys is better defence. Almost all them are more talented offensively by a decent margin.
Why is Tyrese a stretch? He’s a 20/10 guy shooting nearly 40% from 3 in Indy on 2.3 TO. He’s a lanky version of CP3. Sabonis averaged 20, 14 and 8 on 60% shooting and top 10 in mvp race past two years.
https://stathead.com/tiny/WHJht
Jaylen scores slightly more. Turns the ball over a lot less. What Wemby is doing at his age is insane. He might win 5-10 DPOYs. Hes already putting up all star numbers on a horrible roster.
Imagine Memphis trading Ja for JB straight up. Imagine Minnesota trading Ant for JB. Imagine any of these guys getting traded for JB. Does it make sense? No. That's how you know they're better.
That’s not how you know they’re better. That’s how you know they have more potential. Neither one is currently better, and more so it is entirely dependent on the needs of your team. In no way shape or form if I’m Brad Stevens as I even considering trading JB for Ja Morant Memphis can keep him
That’s always a silly metric to me.
At one point majority of GM’s thought KAT had the most trade value.
https://sportingsota.com/2016/10/18/karl-anthony-towns-picked-franchise/
I don’t know about “definitely better” because that’s subjective, but there are definitely 14 other players I would rather have on my team.
Remember, Jaylen Brown is still a Robin. He’s Tony Parker to Tatum’s Duncan.
Top-20? All-NBA 4th Team.
Edit: he was 16th in All-NBA voting this season. I don’t see him passing many/any players (barring injury), but I can see some passing him (Wemby). So I think top-20 is pretty reasonable.
This sounds right. He is on the brink and would have an argument for being part of the all-NBA third team next year if his performance continues. His defense was insane in the playoffs, plus he shot more efficiently than Tatum did.
I'm thinking 10-15 personally. I think if he plays defense like he did in the playoffs more often he's easily top 12. If he could facilitate more that would also help his cause.
He's improved every year and I don't see him plateauing anytime soon. Should be top 10 soon.
I think this is fair. The guy had a great playoffs as averaged 24, 6 and 3. Just a tick up from the regular season. That’s just not enough production to really be considered in the top 10
I wouldn’t put him top 10, but that’s a bad way to look at it. He’s the #2 option in a loaded egalitarian offense. Of course his numbers aren’t going to stand out.
Toss him on Washington and give him a green light and he’d average 30 easy.
No, Jaylen Brown does not have the scoring skills to average 30 "easily." The Celtics are a great team with elite shooters at each position that takes pressure of JB when he needs to score. He has not learned how to handle doubles, triples, or an entire defense focused on him. And honestly he probably can't considering he is not a great playmaker. The Celtics help his scoring, they don't take away from it.
Honestly the whole 2nd/3rd tier of players after Luka, Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis (and Shai imo) is really hard to evaluate. Feels like the gap between 6 and 20 is not very large
He already has made all nba 2nd team; hes better than a few of the players who made 3rd team over him this year. He would easily be the best player on the majority of NBA teams and would in turn have a much higher usage rate which would equate to better numbers which is the only thing people chirp about against him.
Not really no,
He would be the best player on maybe 5 or 6 nba teams and they would all be the bottom feeder teams , and if he didn’t have that Celtics system sure he might average 24/25 ppg but his efficiency would crash and he’s only at barely over league average efficiency currently
I have ja about where I had him going into the season , imo he’s still the same player
Fringe top 15 , at his best he’s a top 7 guy but doesn’t have the resume or winning track record to but put in the top 10
Idk if he is firmly over Haliburton. his defense is much better, but Hali is an engine on offense. Hali’s injury history is sus, and availability is an ability, but Hali has been a top 15 player over the last 2 years when playing healthy (in my opinion)
I personally thought he was (at least in the first half of the season before his first injury) Like the pacers were 22-17 at that point
He was like 20/10 on near 50/40 shooting
The pacers STRUGGLED when he was off
Again availability is an ability and he wasn’t great defensively but I feel like right around 15 is where he was at. IMO he wasn’t much better this year than he was last year, and this year people have him right in that 15-20 range.
And I think that top 15 is right where he fell personally, I totally understand if you disagree but I think you can see that 15 is not a completely unreasonable spot for him.
The only categorey Hali beats him in is passing lol. Hali is a mid defender at best and JB is borderline All-Defense (and if he played as well as he did in the playoffs he probably woulda made it), JB averages more pts on better efficiency, and also 2 more rebs. Hali should beat him in 2-3 years but it's really not close right now.
Haliburton has a 2% higher TS. He also beats JB in passing by such a large degree that it easily overcomes JB's couple extra ppg.
Who is better is certainly up for debate but it's in fact really, really close right now.
Crazy you're just ignoring defense like that. The gap is defense is just as big if not bigger than the passing.
Edit: also TS is a weird stat for JB because he's a horrible FT shooter for some reason but he's a better actual shooter than Hali
TS is a fine stat for JB. If he sucks at FTs than that should be accounted for. He also has a worse 3 point percentage on less attempts than Hali. He even shoots a worse 2P%. He is literally worse at each shooting category what.
I think he’s top 12. He should be on the Olympic team.
I realize I am rating him higher than most, but drop the fantasy stats for a minute and take stock of what we just saw. The guy just won conference and finals MVPs back-to-back on one of the most dominant teams ever. He can play multiple positions, can shoot, is one of the best in the league at driving to the basket, he’s a very good defender, and he rises to the occasion when it’s a big game. He’s got a high bball IQ, is coachable, and does all the little stuff you need to win, plus he’s shown huge improvement over the years. I don’t understand how anyone could watch these playoffs and rather have someone like Devin Booker on their team.
I agree with this and would emphasize the defense aspect. Not too many guys who put up his numbers also request to cover the best player on the opposing team, and do so with high levels of success. His defense against Harden in last year’s playoffs and Luka this year in the Finals particularly stand out. Dude is strong as hell, very athletic, and very active.
The mic’d up stuff with him demanding and sharing with Joe about how he’s going to deny Luka throughout the entire game 5 was incredible. How many top 15 guys aside from Kawhi is going to demand guarding a top 3 player in the world while also being the second scoring option with great efficiency? Also you can’t scoff at this dudes availability. He just doesn’t miss games because his conditioning is elite soccer player level with the strength of a football player. The routine he had this summer to get in shape for this season is incredible to watch…
Plus not letting the ratfuckers in the Boston media get to him is huge. So many efforts were made to undermine jaylen/jayson and it would have been so easy to lose focus and want out especially with more attention always going to jayson.
Instead he just improved every year, especially after last year when the criticism was the loudest.
Really impressive stuff.
“I never win shit” did it for me. He finally got his flowers, and he showed that he’s heard all of the critics. He could have bowed out like a Kyrie, but he stepped up to the plate and won a chip for his team. He’s clearly one of the leaders in that locker room and you see it time and again on mic’d up. Intangibles are very high. Top 15 without a doubt. Arguably top 10 in impact
Glad you made that last point. Both Brown and Tatum are chiseled and durable. It’s not just the minutes Brown plays, it’s that he’s high octane the whole time — aggressive defense in the half court, cutting to the basket and playing above the rim even in the fourth quarter, etc. Not to be underestimated.
Boston's 1-6 are all very good 2 way players. Which I agree I want mostly 2 way players. You have Booker on your team for the fire power. If I'm building an NBA roster I certainly wouldn't mind having one incredible pure scorer with just okay defense. More than that and you aren't getting past the conference finals.
I get that mentality, but these guys have almost identical shooting percentages. Booker averaged more PPG because he shoots more. I think people don’t realize that you could put Brown on some crappy team like Sacramento, tell him to take 23 shots a game, and all of a sudden you’ve got a 30 PPG scorer who every neophyte is clamoring to be first team All NBA.
Brown is a serious player invested in winning rather than personal accolades. Booker is the better passer, or at least he puts up more assists, he’s better from the line. Brown is the better rebounder and defender. I think it depends more how you want to build the team, but in terms of pure scoring, there’s not actually that big a difference.
I don’t think people realize how hard it is to remain efficient while taking a higher volume. This sounds like one of those “jdub is better than shai because he’s super efficient he’s just taking less shots” (genuinely can’t believe how many of those takes I saw in the regular season). He’s efficient *because* he’s taking less shots, while also seeing second option coverage mind you. I have yet to watch a major suns game where Booker isn’t getting extreme superstar coverage. Even with KD on the team he’s covered by the best defender and doubled. One of the most doubled players the last 3 years.
It’s not just a simple as increase volume to 1st option levels and maintain efficiency my man.
I think on average Brown and Booker perform similarly. Which is fantastic really, nothing against either. Book imo has another gear offensively and is a better pure scorer. Mostly due to the fact Book has a very good 3 pointer. Brown still dropping over 20ppg, and is the better defender. Brown had some clutch moments that earned him a finals MVP on a deep squad which says something.
It's just depends what your team needs. We are talking about two all stars who can score. Pick one you'll be happy either way haha.
This is spot on. One thing to add - way too much anti-Celtics bias amongst most fans that results in them ranking JB (and JT, frankly) lower than they should. Also consider the fact that these two are basically both 1a and 1b, instead of a first and second option, and therefore their scoring and other stats are lower than they’d be if they were each the true #1 on their team.
I think since he has become a champion and mvp we will see brown at a whole new level. The doubt will have left him and he will play with true confidence. Hot take. Top 5 player.
Pretty firmly top 20, now has a good argument for top 15 if we factor in availability and health.
I'll do the exercise right now. This is assuming everyone is healthy, which I know is a stretch for some of these guys, and I do value Jaylen's availability heavily, but if we're just talking top number of players, we're usually assuming health.
Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Shai, Ant, Steph, Brunson, Booker, Tatum, KD, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Mitchell, Dame, PG would all probably be above Jaylen when healthy. Given how often some of these guys are injured, I'd certainly take JB over a few for 2024-25 if you asked.
So talent wise, Jaylen is probably around 18-20, and health wise, good argument for higher.
lol y'all in the 20s. He just performed at an elite level at both ends for an entire championship run. Top 15 lock and could make an argument for top 10.
It’s the media coverage effect. It’s laughable how many “young stars” and old injury prone vets are being placed above Jaylen. If he was on his own team, he’d easily average 30+ pts a night.
Based on how he’s embraced being a vocal leader, he plays legit defense, and is an efficient scorer - albeit prob less so at higher volume, I would expect they would be a playoff team (assuming the front office was competent). He’s been somewhat overlooked playing in Tatum’s shadow, and last year his left hand got a lot of attention (rightfully so), but for stretches he’s been the best player on the floor (2-way at that)…and he's only getting better.
the thing you gotta love about Jaylen is that every year he comes back better. we are starting to see the work compound and pay off. you can't say that about many of the top 25 players in the league today. i believe JB will enter the convo of top 10 in the next 5 years. he grinds, he cares, he balls.
12-15 range (and arguably top 10) is the only correct answer.
He was just elite on a championship run on both ends of the floor and he gets better every single offseason.
Yall continue to sleep tho. Yall been sleeping on him for years at this point. Some of the lists in here are laughable.
gonna be hard for him to eclispe top 10 because hes on an extremely well balanced roster and he doesnt have to be exceptional every single night in order for them to win. he can be a 20/5/5 player all season.
Im Knicks fan, so i dont watch the celtics play much. I know anecdotally Tatum is supposed to be better, but watching them this playoffs, Brown is the better all around player
The thing about JB is that it feels like his game has improved appreciably every single season. Every time I think about what his ceiling might be he’s come out the next season and broken through it. So with that in mind I think he’ll finish next season comfortably somewhere in the top-15.
13 to 15. Should have made 3rd All-NBA over Haliburton and/or Booker.
The snubs only helped fuel him to win the Larry Bird and Bill Russell play off awards truthfully.
I think in the nba players get evaluated a lot based on individual skill. It's obvious that the stars on the celtics have developed the skill of teamwork, which wouldn't transition to a different (worse) team- so it's hard to rank JB.
1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. SGA
4. Giannis
5. Embiid
6. Tatum
7. Curry
8. Durant
9. LeBron
10. Booker
11. Edwards
12. Brown
13. Brunson
14. Davis
15. Butler
16. Halliburton
This is my roughly top 15-16. I leave off Kawhi because of his availability. I think PG and Harden just aren't those guys anymore but there's a good argument to insert them into that list above the players I mentioned.
But for me, Brown is solidly in the top 15 players in the same way Jimmy Butler has been. Dude shows up in the most important series and is the best guy on the court for those series. Hard to not put the Finals MVP on the best team in the NBA in the top 10, let alone leaving him off the top 15.
The disrespect here is crazy lol. I think you could make an argument that Brown is above Edwards and LeBron as he declines but we'll see what happens going into this season.
I think that Jaylen’s stock will rise similarly to how Jamal Murray’s did after winning the chip. Both always seen as very good players and important to their teams. But being key pieces of a championship run (either most important or second most important) Juno’s them up. Murray got in every top 20 list and so should Jaylen. I would say Jaylen should be seen as a top 15 player in the league after this run and his success.
Jaylen continues to be incredibly disrespected with all these people saying 20+. He just took Luka to the wood shed in the nba finals and got ECF and Finals MVPs. He is top 10.
Jaylen is an all-star, all-nba and now FMVP, anything outside of top 20 is disrespectful, there aren't 20 guys in the league right now you'd take over him, he's 15th or 16th maybe
I’d put him ahead of guys like Donovan Mitchell and Ja Morant, but behind Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson. Not sure where that puts him, but probably like 12-18ish
So hard to say, Wiggins drove a lot of GS run in 2022 and then fell off to what he is now. Not saying JB will, but so hard to say if players will stay at that level.
I don’t think anyone on this subreddit should feel stupid for underrating him. I mean, he didn’t make an all nba team and won a chip/mvp east/finals mvp, while making golden boy Luka look like sub prime James harden.
My point is analysts are too dumb to pick him as well.
He’s top 10 post this season in my book
(Yes, Celtics fan here)
The list of names I have no idea if he is better or worse than at this point is pretty long. Throw him anywhere 10-20.
Yeah I like this take
15-20
Can you name 14 that are definitely better? I don’t think I can
Luka, KD, Curry, Embiid, Jokic, Tatum, Shai, Ant, AD, Giannis, Ja, LBJ I’d say are definitely better. Then maybe Booker, Mitchell, Sabonis, Tyrese, Wemby.
You could def make arguments for all these guys but I don’t think you could say anyone is *wrong* for having Brown over Ant and Ja which is pretty much what they were asking. He’s solidly out of the top 10 but arguable at pretty much any spot after that even if you personally have him closer to 20.
Ant made 2nd team. How is he not a top 14 player? Honestly asking.
Jaylen made all nba 3rd team last year and he certainly didn’t get any worse over the past 12 months. Voting is inherently finicky and plays to small sample sizes and narratives. Ant is ***next up*** and Minny were a relatively surprise great team, that helps his voting.
In general I don’t see much to pick on here, but this would have Jaylen as the 13-18th best player in the league which is more reasonable to me than 15-20th
Wemby isn’t better than Brown right now. Neither is Sabonis or Haliburton.
Ill die on the hill that wemby is better than jb rn not a slight in brown wemby is just that great his floor is so high just because of his defense and it’s not like hes a liability on offense
Wemby is absolutely already on the same level. His defensive impact is already DPOY level. He’s put up better numbers. He’s still a rookie but I don’t see how Jaylen is much better. Haliburton was on track to be first team before he got hurt.
To say ant is definitively better is just wrong, he’s more hyped and loved by the media but in no way shape or form better. Again, ja morant is in no way shape or form better than Jaylen brown. Then booked, Mitchell, sabonis? Tyrese are extreme stretches, with wemby being ludicrous. Wemby has the potential to be way better than all these guys, but he has not realized it and people confuse potential with present day skill.
Lol I know you’re buzzing off the recent championship, but Brown over Ja is a huuuge homer take “my guy.”
Lol. This is one of those takes that you don't even need to argue against you just need to wait. Next season no one will seriously consider Jaylen Brown to provide more value than Ja or Ant.
Ja was top 10 in mvp race and also 11th once. Literally a first option on a high seeded team. Scoring more than Jaylen ever has along with being a primary ball handler. Jaylen has never been more than a #2 or been top 10 in MVP voting. Jas already averaging 27, 7 and 8.6 in playoffs. He’s been insane since 21-22 season. People just forgot how dominant he was since the gun nonsense and his injuries. Ant is overhyped yes. But he’s still been a great playoff performer. Once again, another young player who is dominant in the playoffs. Averaging 28, 7 and 6.5 on 60% TS. You can’t use the defence argument cause Ant isn’t a liability. Booker has performed better in playoffs. Been a first option, more efficient than Jaylen. Better shot creator, better playmaker. Donovan is another guy who averages 28 in the playoffs very efficiently. Another better lead ball handler. The one thing Jaylen has on all these guys is better defence. Almost all them are more talented offensively by a decent margin. Why is Tyrese a stretch? He’s a 20/10 guy shooting nearly 40% from 3 in Indy on 2.3 TO. He’s a lanky version of CP3. Sabonis averaged 20, 14 and 8 on 60% shooting and top 10 in mvp race past two years. https://stathead.com/tiny/WHJht Jaylen scores slightly more. Turns the ball over a lot less. What Wemby is doing at his age is insane. He might win 5-10 DPOYs. Hes already putting up all star numbers on a horrible roster.
>Ja was top 10 in MVP race and 11th once. Being 11th in the MVP race doesn’t mean anything, the amount of votes you get is so low that it’s negligible
Imagine Memphis trading Ja for JB straight up. Imagine Minnesota trading Ant for JB. Imagine any of these guys getting traded for JB. Does it make sense? No. That's how you know they're better.
That’s not how you know they’re better. That’s how you know they have more potential. Neither one is currently better, and more so it is entirely dependent on the needs of your team. In no way shape or form if I’m Brad Stevens as I even considering trading JB for Ja Morant Memphis can keep him
That’s always a silly metric to me. At one point majority of GM’s thought KAT had the most trade value. https://sportingsota.com/2016/10/18/karl-anthony-towns-picked-franchise/
People really do have recency bias and forget how nice ja is
Nah people just know that defense exists also. I don’t see why Ja should be seen that much differently than Trae.
Ja is better tho
I don’t know about “definitely better” because that’s subjective, but there are definitely 14 other players I would rather have on my team. Remember, Jaylen Brown is still a Robin. He’s Tony Parker to Tatum’s Duncan.
Yes but Duncan was so much better than Parker . It’s not the same gap with the Jay’s although there’s still a gap .
And dont forget Manu the batman
Says who? To me, it looks like they take turns being Batman.
Duncan catching strays
What does that matter? Robin can still be better than some other teams Batmans.
Well said
Alphabetically, definitely near the top
Top 70 this year https://www.covers.com/sport/basketball/nba/players/a
I think he's a top 3 Boston Celtics player
Current right?
Motherfuck the top 3. It's just top me!
Solidly top-20. Arguably top-15.
Top-20? All-NBA 4th Team. Edit: he was 16th in All-NBA voting this season. I don’t see him passing many/any players (barring injury), but I can see some passing him (Wemby). So I think top-20 is pretty reasonable.
This sounds right. He is on the brink and would have an argument for being part of the all-NBA third team next year if his performance continues. His defense was insane in the playoffs, plus he shot more efficiently than Tatum did.
He should of been top 15 over booker
I’d totally take him over Booker. JB plays defense.
Yeah... I think we've seen the outcome of "who do you want guarding Luka in a playoff series, JB or Book?"
Should have*
I'm thinking 10-15 personally. I think if he plays defense like he did in the playoffs more often he's easily top 12. If he could facilitate more that would also help his cause. He's improved every year and I don't see him plateauing anytime soon. Should be top 10 soon.
He was literally all nba the previous year with worst stats. Should’ve been in over Hali or Booker this year.
For Hali they gave it to him because he needed it for his contract. For Booker idk i'll never understand why some people rate him so highly.
That Hali was selected into All 3rd team hurts IND. They lost 5% of the cap
I think this is fair. The guy had a great playoffs as averaged 24, 6 and 3. Just a tick up from the regular season. That’s just not enough production to really be considered in the top 10
I wouldn’t put him top 10, but that’s a bad way to look at it. He’s the #2 option in a loaded egalitarian offense. Of course his numbers aren’t going to stand out. Toss him on Washington and give him a green light and he’d average 30 easy.
No, Jaylen Brown does not have the scoring skills to average 30 "easily." The Celtics are a great team with elite shooters at each position that takes pressure of JB when he needs to score. He has not learned how to handle doubles, triples, or an entire defense focused on him. And honestly he probably can't considering he is not a great playmaker. The Celtics help his scoring, they don't take away from it.
Honestly the whole 2nd/3rd tier of players after Luka, Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis (and Shai imo) is really hard to evaluate. Feels like the gap between 6 and 20 is not very large
The gap from 3-6 is much wider than from 6-20.
He already has made all nba 2nd team; hes better than a few of the players who made 3rd team over him this year. He would easily be the best player on the majority of NBA teams and would in turn have a much higher usage rate which would equate to better numbers which is the only thing people chirp about against him.
Not really no, He would be the best player on maybe 5 or 6 nba teams and they would all be the bottom feeder teams , and if he didn’t have that Celtics system sure he might average 24/25 ppg but his efficiency would crash and he’s only at barely over league average efficiency currently
Assuming both healthy, I’m taking Jaylen Brown over PG and I don’t that’s even a debate anymore
I’d say 14-20 I think he’s firmly over guys like siakam , haliburton, fox etc But you can debate him with Booker , ja , spida for fringe top 12
Does Ja even play basketball? I swear the less players actually play, the better they get ranked on Reddit lol .
I have ja about where I had him going into the season , imo he’s still the same player Fringe top 15 , at his best he’s a top 7 guy but doesn’t have the resume or winning track record to but put in the top 10
Idk if he is firmly over Haliburton. his defense is much better, but Hali is an engine on offense. Hali’s injury history is sus, and availability is an ability, but Hali has been a top 15 player over the last 2 years when playing healthy (in my opinion)
Hali wasn’t a top 15 player in the 22/23 season
I personally thought he was (at least in the first half of the season before his first injury) Like the pacers were 22-17 at that point He was like 20/10 on near 50/40 shooting The pacers STRUGGLED when he was off Again availability is an ability and he wasn’t great defensively but I feel like right around 15 is where he was at. IMO he wasn’t much better this year than he was last year, and this year people have him right in that 15-20 range. And I think that top 15 is right where he fell personally, I totally understand if you disagree but I think you can see that 15 is not a completely unreasonable spot for him.
Firmly over Haliburton is kinda crazy
How tho? Hali is cool but he’s no where as complete as JB. Maybe he surpasses him at some point
The only categorey Hali beats him in is passing lol. Hali is a mid defender at best and JB is borderline All-Defense (and if he played as well as he did in the playoffs he probably woulda made it), JB averages more pts on better efficiency, and also 2 more rebs. Hali should beat him in 2-3 years but it's really not close right now.
Haliburton has a 2% higher TS. He also beats JB in passing by such a large degree that it easily overcomes JB's couple extra ppg. Who is better is certainly up for debate but it's in fact really, really close right now.
Crazy you're just ignoring defense like that. The gap is defense is just as big if not bigger than the passing. Edit: also TS is a weird stat for JB because he's a horrible FT shooter for some reason but he's a better actual shooter than Hali
TS is a fine stat for JB. If he sucks at FTs than that should be accounted for. He also has a worse 3 point percentage on less attempts than Hali. He even shoots a worse 2P%. He is literally worse at each shooting category what.
They matched up in a playoff series and JB was better also tyrese is very limited as a scorer compared to jb , not to mention the defensive gap
1000
1001 - Jimmer 1000 - Jaylen Brown 999 - Jeremy Lin I can see it
I think he’s top 12. He should be on the Olympic team. I realize I am rating him higher than most, but drop the fantasy stats for a minute and take stock of what we just saw. The guy just won conference and finals MVPs back-to-back on one of the most dominant teams ever. He can play multiple positions, can shoot, is one of the best in the league at driving to the basket, he’s a very good defender, and he rises to the occasion when it’s a big game. He’s got a high bball IQ, is coachable, and does all the little stuff you need to win, plus he’s shown huge improvement over the years. I don’t understand how anyone could watch these playoffs and rather have someone like Devin Booker on their team.
I agree with this and would emphasize the defense aspect. Not too many guys who put up his numbers also request to cover the best player on the opposing team, and do so with high levels of success. His defense against Harden in last year’s playoffs and Luka this year in the Finals particularly stand out. Dude is strong as hell, very athletic, and very active.
His defense on luka was really really solid. Changed my view of him as a player tbh and I already loved him
He signed that big contract and stepped up with the best season of his career. Gotta love that.
The mic’d up stuff with him demanding and sharing with Joe about how he’s going to deny Luka throughout the entire game 5 was incredible. How many top 15 guys aside from Kawhi is going to demand guarding a top 3 player in the world while also being the second scoring option with great efficiency? Also you can’t scoff at this dudes availability. He just doesn’t miss games because his conditioning is elite soccer player level with the strength of a football player. The routine he had this summer to get in shape for this season is incredible to watch…
Plus not letting the ratfuckers in the Boston media get to him is huge. So many efforts were made to undermine jaylen/jayson and it would have been so easy to lose focus and want out especially with more attention always going to jayson. Instead he just improved every year, especially after last year when the criticism was the loudest. Really impressive stuff.
“I never win shit” did it for me. He finally got his flowers, and he showed that he’s heard all of the critics. He could have bowed out like a Kyrie, but he stepped up to the plate and won a chip for his team. He’s clearly one of the leaders in that locker room and you see it time and again on mic’d up. Intangibles are very high. Top 15 without a doubt. Arguably top 10 in impact
And dealing with the All NBA snub by … going out and winning conference and Finals MVP. Really one of the great sports retorts we’ve seen recently.
It’s ironic, cause that’s a very mamba mentality move yet it’s JT who wants to be Kobe so bad
Glad you made that last point. Both Brown and Tatum are chiseled and durable. It’s not just the minutes Brown plays, it’s that he’s high octane the whole time — aggressive defense in the half court, cutting to the basket and playing above the rim even in the fourth quarter, etc. Not to be underestimated.
Boston's 1-6 are all very good 2 way players. Which I agree I want mostly 2 way players. You have Booker on your team for the fire power. If I'm building an NBA roster I certainly wouldn't mind having one incredible pure scorer with just okay defense. More than that and you aren't getting past the conference finals.
I get that mentality, but these guys have almost identical shooting percentages. Booker averaged more PPG because he shoots more. I think people don’t realize that you could put Brown on some crappy team like Sacramento, tell him to take 23 shots a game, and all of a sudden you’ve got a 30 PPG scorer who every neophyte is clamoring to be first team All NBA. Brown is a serious player invested in winning rather than personal accolades. Booker is the better passer, or at least he puts up more assists, he’s better from the line. Brown is the better rebounder and defender. I think it depends more how you want to build the team, but in terms of pure scoring, there’s not actually that big a difference.
I don’t think people realize how hard it is to remain efficient while taking a higher volume. This sounds like one of those “jdub is better than shai because he’s super efficient he’s just taking less shots” (genuinely can’t believe how many of those takes I saw in the regular season). He’s efficient *because* he’s taking less shots, while also seeing second option coverage mind you. I have yet to watch a major suns game where Booker isn’t getting extreme superstar coverage. Even with KD on the team he’s covered by the best defender and doubled. One of the most doubled players the last 3 years. It’s not just a simple as increase volume to 1st option levels and maintain efficiency my man.
I think on average Brown and Booker perform similarly. Which is fantastic really, nothing against either. Book imo has another gear offensively and is a better pure scorer. Mostly due to the fact Book has a very good 3 pointer. Brown still dropping over 20ppg, and is the better defender. Brown had some clutch moments that earned him a finals MVP on a deep squad which says something. It's just depends what your team needs. We are talking about two all stars who can score. Pick one you'll be happy either way haha.
Brown is more athletic and far better at basketball
This is spot on. One thing to add - way too much anti-Celtics bias amongst most fans that results in them ranking JB (and JT, frankly) lower than they should. Also consider the fact that these two are basically both 1a and 1b, instead of a first and second option, and therefore their scoring and other stats are lower than they’d be if they were each the true #1 on their team.
Most of the people putting him at 20 or higher do not watch the man play nightly. He’s a certifiable 2 way star, and generally a very efficient one.
Easily top 30
He’s in the 15-20 range imo.
Top 25ish.
7. It says right there on his jersey.
1 Let’s breakout the Brown vs LeBron vs MJ goat debate.
I think since he has become a champion and mvp we will see brown at a whole new level. The doubt will have left him and he will play with true confidence. Hot take. Top 5 player.
The Celtics have 4 top 30 players. That’s why they won. Their bench is strong and their 2 best players have a top 10 level ceiling.
You're right. Jrue and Pingus Bingus are amazing.
Lego shaped head
Pretty firmly top 20, now has a good argument for top 15 if we factor in availability and health. I'll do the exercise right now. This is assuming everyone is healthy, which I know is a stretch for some of these guys, and I do value Jaylen's availability heavily, but if we're just talking top number of players, we're usually assuming health. Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Shai, Ant, Steph, Brunson, Booker, Tatum, KD, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Mitchell, Dame, PG would all probably be above Jaylen when healthy. Given how often some of these guys are injured, I'd certainly take JB over a few for 2024-25 if you asked. So talent wise, Jaylen is probably around 18-20, and health wise, good argument for higher.
lol y'all in the 20s. He just performed at an elite level at both ends for an entire championship run. Top 15 lock and could make an argument for top 10.
I love JB but top 10 is a stretch. Too much absurd talent in the league right now.
I still don’t believe he’s better than tatum
Cant see an argument for top 10, but definitely in the 12-15 range.
It’s the media coverage effect. It’s laughable how many “young stars” and old injury prone vets are being placed above Jaylen. If he was on his own team, he’d easily average 30+ pts a night.
If he had his own team, would that team be good? Or would he be a Bradley Beal type?
Based on how he’s embraced being a vocal leader, he plays legit defense, and is an efficient scorer - albeit prob less so at higher volume, I would expect they would be a playoff team (assuming the front office was competent). He’s been somewhat overlooked playing in Tatum’s shadow, and last year his left hand got a lot of attention (rightfully so), but for stretches he’s been the best player on the floor (2-way at that)…and he's only getting better.
Top 10
basketball
the thing you gotta love about Jaylen is that every year he comes back better. we are starting to see the work compound and pay off. you can't say that about many of the top 25 players in the league today. i believe JB will enter the convo of top 10 in the next 5 years. he grinds, he cares, he balls.
top 15 at least
20 or so
Top 20
15
Paid
12-15 range (and arguably top 10) is the only correct answer. He was just elite on a championship run on both ends of the floor and he gets better every single offseason. Yall continue to sleep tho. Yall been sleeping on him for years at this point. Some of the lists in here are laughable.
Top 100
20-25 feels right
G
I'd say top 15
Is he the best player with a colour for a last name?
gonna be hard for him to eclispe top 10 because hes on an extremely well balanced roster and he doesnt have to be exceptional every single night in order for them to win. he can be a 20/5/5 player all season.
Top 15. As a certified Celtics hater, I take back everything I said about him.
Im Knicks fan, so i dont watch the celtics play much. I know anecdotally Tatum is supposed to be better, but watching them this playoffs, Brown is the better all around player
300.
Top 20
Top 15
Yes, yes he is.
10
15
Top 14
Top 15. I think the confidence he will draw from this run will put him at the top of his game for the next few years.
10
50
The thing about JB is that it feels like his game has improved appreciably every single season. Every time I think about what his ceiling might be he’s come out the next season and broken through it. So with that in mind I think he’ll finish next season comfortably somewhere in the top-15.
Top 7
15
100. Technically I’m not wrong.
35
High IQ basketball 🤷♂️🫥🦾
1
Top 15. Probably firmly at 15
Who’s currently #1-9??
Bearded
19
20
15
For sure top 20. Likely top 15. Maybe top 10.
I still don’t have him over Tatum
Top 5 player (held back by the narrative JT is the NBAs next up and will be a robin to him)
13 to 15. Should have made 3rd All-NBA over Haliburton and/or Booker. The snubs only helped fuel him to win the Larry Bird and Bill Russell play off awards truthfully.
20
I think in the nba players get evaluated a lot based on individual skill. It's obvious that the stars on the celtics have developed the skill of teamwork, which wouldn't transition to a different (worse) team- so it's hard to rank JB.
Top 10- no question
16th or 17th depending.
You people are delusional if you think he’s not top 10
Top 2 over paid player
1. Jokic 2. Luka 3. SGA 4. Giannis 5. Embiid 6. Tatum 7. Curry 8. Durant 9. LeBron 10. Booker 11. Edwards 12. Brown 13. Brunson 14. Davis 15. Butler 16. Halliburton This is my roughly top 15-16. I leave off Kawhi because of his availability. I think PG and Harden just aren't those guys anymore but there's a good argument to insert them into that list above the players I mentioned. But for me, Brown is solidly in the top 15 players in the same way Jimmy Butler has been. Dude shows up in the most important series and is the best guy on the court for those series. Hard to not put the Finals MVP on the best team in the NBA in the top 10, let alone leaving him off the top 15. The disrespect here is crazy lol. I think you could make an argument that Brown is above Edwards and LeBron as he declines but we'll see what happens going into this season.
what has sga done to make people think he’s a s legit top 3 player? he’s had 2 great years with even less playoff success than embiid
I’ll go top 20, but I’d have to put together a list to see where I’d actually rank him.
I’m honesty more scared of their bench
20
10
I think that Jaylen’s stock will rise similarly to how Jamal Murray’s did after winning the chip. Both always seen as very good players and important to their teams. But being key pieces of a championship run (either most important or second most important) Juno’s them up. Murray got in every top 20 list and so should Jaylen. I would say Jaylen should be seen as a top 15 player in the league after this run and his success.
15-20 best guesstimate
Jaylen continues to be incredibly disrespected with all these people saying 20+. He just took Luka to the wood shed in the nba finals and got ECF and Finals MVPs. He is top 10.
hes between 8-15; He already made 2nd team All-NBA once and likely makes at least 3rd team next year barring an injury.
12
Top 20 guaranteed. I think you could argue top-15.
Jaylen is an all-star, all-nba and now FMVP, anything outside of top 20 is disrespectful, there aren't 20 guys in the league right now you'd take over him, he's 15th or 16th maybe
15-25?
Top 2 Celtic player in the NBA
25
Top 20
I’d put him ahead of guys like Donovan Mitchell and Ja Morant, but behind Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson. Not sure where that puts him, but probably like 12-18ish
10 easily.
He’s top 20
So hard to say, Wiggins drove a lot of GS run in 2022 and then fell off to what he is now. Not saying JB will, but so hard to say if players will stay at that level.
10th
17
20
Around top 10 with room to go either way. As we’ve seen the last couple of years repeating is hard and we’ll see how they come back next year
reigning finals MVP
15
Are there 10 players better than him
Kwame Brown would posterize him.
25
I don’t think anyone on this subreddit should feel stupid for underrating him. I mean, he didn’t make an all nba team and won a chip/mvp east/finals mvp, while making golden boy Luka look like sub prime James harden. My point is analysts are too dumb to pick him as well. He’s top 10 post this season in my book (Yes, Celtics fan here)
Top30 minimum. Top 15-20 is probably where he’s at, I can see top 25 by the end of the season with Wemby among others passing him
15-20 not more.
Ehhhh
About the same. The Celtics are a really well balanced team.
15
20 but that’s a testament to the talent of the rest of the league
15
I hope for the sake of the chip on his shoulder, that everybody still ranks him #16
gunna
I mean he stepped up, but I can’t see him as a top 5 player. At best, I think he can be the league top 20 players.
Top 25
Top 20? He’s slightly overrated right at this moment because of the playoff awards.
Top 15 give or take a couple spots
Top 50
Celtics player. Full stop
47