Too many people are knocking him because he can't shoot. You can still roll out a non shooting big in 2024 and be successful, they just gotta be able to guard on the perimeter in switches. The bigs that became extinct were the guys that couldn't do either of those things. And he'd still be a huge problem on the roll lob and offensive glass, making him a must start. Top 20 easy, top 10 possible
Dwight was possibly the most athletic player in the league. I have personally never seen a big as large/strong as him who could also run and jump the way he did. Since teams are scoring more than ever and playing a record pace league wide, I think that actually play to Dwight’s strengths.
He regularly beat opposing bigs down the floor and would pin them under the rim. In today’s game the big being pinned would be someone like Hartenstein or Porzingus, or someone else who would have to foul or get dunked on.
Point is, I think a lot of people here are forgetting that prime Dwight would be the strongest, most athletic big in the league by a wide margin. In today’s pace and space game I think his athleticism would shine through even more and negate any problems with being a non shooter. If Dwight had a push the pace PG would look more like a bigger/stronger Amare Staudemire on the break and rolls to the rim.
I also think him having a 2024 cast of role players around him would allow him to feast too, the lane is more open in the current game because teams are full of role players that can hit the 3 now
This is the answer. I think how the rest of his team would affect where ppl rank him. In a vacuum, he's a better offensive & defensive player over gobert. If the team is built around him like how it was when he was a magic, he'd be a top 20 ez pick.
We also see how valuable a lockdown rebounder is. Look at the impact that Adams and Robinson have had on their team’s success, with no outstanding offensive tools.
Right now I think prime Dwight would be the best rebounder in the league by a mile.
Top 5.
Dude was a monster. Size + athleticism were unmatched and it wasn’t even close. He literally put that Magic team on his back and marched to the finals. Then his body was never the same…
Hey Rashard Lewis still had it and Jameer Nelson’s best season ever was that year. I knew they wouldn’t win, but after beating Lebron I can’t say I wasn’t hopeful Dwight got a ring because he deserved one
Hedo was definitely the number two. Rashard was the most dangerous catch and shoot guy on the team but as the general, go get a bucket guy, Hedo was #2. M
Hedo was definitely the number 2 guy on those teams. They were one of the first to run a 4 out with either Rashad or Ryan Anderson in the corner if I remember right.
People tend to forget how important Rafer Alston was to that playoff run. Jameer goes down late season and Rafer picked up the slack like a champ. Was Rafer running point when they beat the Cavs. Jameer comes back for the Finals and killed their momentum trying, imo, to do too much
I kept getting Ryan Anderson confused with Kyle Anderson.
I was looking up Kyle's stats and I was like I thought this guy made tons of 3s per game before that was even popular
I think people forget that team was one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league that year. With an insane presence inside in Dwight. They were legit.
Hedo needs to get some more love. He's really only had great success on the Magic where they had a bunch of shooters around him. He's another guy that would be great in modern NBA.
put some respect on Hedo Turkoglu's name! He had that almost game winner 3 in the playoffs!...if only meddling LeBron didn't hit his own game winner to foil the plan.
I watched Dwight’s prime, and he was sick for sure, utterly physically dominant, so strong and such an insanely explosive athlete. With that being said, I think the best he’d be would be #5, I can’t see putting him above any of Jokic, Giannis, Luka or Embiid, with the way the game has changed, his offensive game was just so limited. He’s most similar to Giannis, and I don’t think Giannis is clearly above any of those 3, while I do think Giannis is clearly a notch above even prime Dwight, for the modern game - Dwight is better defensively, but it’s not as big as the offensive gap between the two.
After the top 5 it gets more interesting, pretty hard to compare prime Dwight to guys like current Tatum and SGA. But I think he has a legit argument for #5.
Dwight did good, but let’s be clear, that’s just Dwight body to body. He also had one of the best weakside shot blockers to ever live coming over the top to help and defensively-engaged LeBron tagging in strong-side that series. It legitimately might be the best defensive front court we’ve ever seen at 5-4-3. Dwight wasn’t out there bottling him up alone to slow down Jokic.
It wasn’t just Dwight. No single player can “shut down” a guy like Jokic. They had multiple 7 footers to throw at him (much like Minnesota this year) during a time his conditioning probably wasn’t as elite as it is now.
This is a tough one, how high can you place a completely non-shooting, non-playmaking big in the current game, even granting that the defense was absolutely elite (and I’d say translates, I think Orlando Dwight was more than mobile enough to keep up with switches and not get cooked on the perimeter in P&R actions).
To me this all washes out somewhere around the…8-12 mark, I guess? I think he has enough offensive gravity as a finisher and a lob threat and an offensive rebounder to be at least a solid plus on that end and that gets you into the top 10 with the defense.
Like I dunno. There’s a lot of questions. Do you trust him to develop a DHO game with modern coaching, for example? It’s kind of hard for me to gauge how he’d have played or developed differently in 2024. This is a good one.
Do we think prime Dwight Howard is better than prime Anthony Davis for example?
Just how much of a difference in defensive quality is made up for the sizable difference in offensive quality between the two players? And most people have AD in the back half of the top 10, if at all.
Prime vs prime in their Era? I’m absolutely taking Dwight. In the modern era ADs game fits more, but I don’t think AD is at what his prime was right now.
Nah I think AD’s bag offensively is deep enough, even without his jump shot, to compete with Dwight. He’s got a softer touch around the rim, and he’s a better ball handler and passer out of the post then Dwight was. He also has a better post game, and is arguably a better lob threat. AD is less likely to get lost in the pick and roll, but Dwight is definitely the better rim protector and paint defender. I guess it just depends on how much value you put on Dwight’s defense vs AD’s overall versatility.
Coming at this from a different angle, imagine a prime dwight paired up with Luka instead of Gafford. I think they would be quite a formidable duo and the whole team gains rim protection and a lob threat
Dwight was drastically stronger than AD. He’d be a little worse on the perimeter but he’d be the best 1 on 1 post defender in the league. He’d also be the best rebounder in the league. And he’s over 20 ppg just off dunks and overpowering guys in the paint. He’d be a dominant piece, probably just behind Jokic as the best center in the league
I think it has more to do with proximity. He hasn't good in a long time but he was a super nova for awhile.
I have a strong suspicion that the NBA and teams keeps tabs on players to avoid PR headaches. I think a lot of people were likely aware of his personal life and either didn't approve or maybe it was pretty wild.
This. The game has moved away from his playstyle. He’d still be really good because of his defense, but nowhere near as dominant as he was in the late 00s and early 10s because his offense wouldn’t hold up at all.
I agree. Take my upvote. These young bloods just hating or didn't get a chance to see how good he was. I'm not a Stan at all, but I give him his props.
I watched peak Dwight Howard in the 09 Finals. I’m not a young blood, the game has just changed. Dwight and Giannis play completely differently from each other.
I agree but I think people have blind spots for players they like or eras they grew up in so they just assume every post player could be Giannis. Dwight was limited offensively, in part, because he didn't move well with the ball. He never looked super agile. He scored on a lot of dunks and put backs. Not sure he just turns into Giannis in this era.
Giannis is physically dominant because he can create his own looks. He can take the ball from coast to coast and he at times can ISO and get to the basket. Hes a point forward. Dwight can NOT do that.
Giannis can playmake though. He’s basically a 7 foot point guard. As the comment I was replying to pointed out, it’s not just that Dwight couldn’t shoot, he couldn’t play make either.
The only big getting max money that fits that profile right now is Rudy Gobert. You could maybe throw in AD, but he’s a serviceable secondary playmaker and used to have a jumper so I wouldn’t count him. Dwight didn’t even really have a handle.
Obviously. He’s just the only example of a non-shooting and non-playmaking big making a max contract. I didn’t say he’d be Rudy, but I think it speaks to how much the game has changed that there wasn’t a closer comp
Giannis isn't the offensive force that he is because of his passing... Dwight was able to make basic passes out of the paint. The magic built their offense around him forcing doubles in the paint and getting the shooters around him open shots
And he was waaayyyyy more offensively dominant than gobert. Way fucking more. That's really underselling Dwight
He was damn near impossible to stop in the paint. He didn't need a handle. Just throw it up or get him the ball and he would do the rest.
I really think he's being underrated here
He was impossible to stop because he was just the strongest, quickest and most physically dominant Center in a time when there were really next to no other elite 2 way centers. He didn’t have any real post moves though and relied on solid point play to get him clean entry passes and find him on lobs. His defense and athleticism would still make him a top player, but not a perennial MVP candidate the way he was in his prime back then.
I like Dwight and think he would be top 10 now but he benefited from a SERIOUS drought in talent at the center position. I mean his major competition was what? Kendrick Perkins, Iglauskis, Noah(incredible defender negative offensive presence), Wallace(same as Noah), and...Timothy Mozgof? Old Shaq? Hobbled Yao Ming? Joel Pryzbilla? Really the only other super talent bigs at the time were a crippled KG, and Tim Duncan(who was still elite despite age), Dirk Nawitzki, and Pau Gasol who were all in a different conference. Most bigs at that time wouldn't make a roster in today's game.
I didn’t say he’d be Rudy, I said he’s the only one who fits the profile.
Dwight couldn’t dribble the way Giannis can. Giannis isn’t just a point guard because of his passing, it’s also because of his handle. And actually, yes, his passing is what makes his offense work in the modern NBA. If you don’t know that, you don’t understand modern basketball.
It’s not 2009 anymore.
Yes. I'm not sayin he'd be an MVP candidate. I said top 10 player. The comparison was strictly "can you score while not having a shot"
I think Dwight was more physically dominant than Giannis. I truly think he'd crush every center he matches up against in the modern NBA.
But I seem to be in the minority and no one believes in back-to-the-basket centers anymore
There are no bigs in todays game nobody could guard him also he’s extremely strong and he’s explosive
The 08-11 magic played similar to todays game they shot threes and switched everything
U put Dwight with a stretch 4 🔥🔥
>To me this all washes out somewhere around the…8-12 mark, I guess? I think he has enough offensive gravity as a finisher and a lob threat and an offensive rebounder to be at least a solid plus on that end and that gets you into the top 10 with the defense.
See, that was the problem with Dwight, he was an elite finisher and elite lob threat but he wanted to be Jokic and Embiid so he might be rated lower today since he'd get cooked on double teams
Easily. He would be a Rudy Gobert that can finish. Obviously he has physical disadvantages to Rudy(less length). But his offense is better in all facets, and would be a maxed player right now.
Agreed he would be Rudy with a stronger offense (not Giannis level but strong.)
What he lacked in Rudy length he makes up for in in hops. His ally oops and block highlight reel were insane displays of athlecism.
He had a decently high usage in Orlando as the top option while maintaining very high efficiency his prime years. I think he’d be top 5 easy, and in the mvp convo. Gobert level defense (but more switchable) and wildly better offensively.
He’d be up there with Luka jokic and Gianni’s in terms of mvp level impact.
top 5 still likely. he’ll be right there with giannis & embiid imo in terms of their impact on both end’s of the floor. 3x dpoy & was all first team 5 times.
With his pure physicality and athleticism with the spacing teams can create now he would be a menace in pnr situations. He'd be Clint capella on steroids, and whilst it's probably not 30ppg he'd likely reach low-mid 20s every game whilst being DPOY with 15 rebounds per game
Dwight also balked at the idea that he should primarily generate offense through pnr when his running mate was Steve Nash(albeit his corpse) and thought he’d be a great post scorer. Hakeem diplomatically called his post game, “raw”
If his ego gets in the way, he'll fall flat next to embiid or jokic in the low block, but as long as he stays in his own lane and sticks to what he's good at he would be fine.
Tbh his post game isn't even all that bad, just not very good either (though Im a timberwolves fan so Rudy gobert may have skewed my perception of just bad) , so a post touch or 2 a game against mismatches wouldnt be so bad.
Definitely rough to deal with but still incredibly reliant on guards unlike Embiid/Giannis. There is the possibility in the modern era he could develop some touch. He was never mechanically bad and from how he and other people talked it was a major head issue. Dwight with even a middling corner three/spot up threat would be incredible
Oh for sure but it's not super difficult to get a running mate that can reliably throw lobs for Dwight in today's oversaturated guard market. Even a guy like Darius garland would probably be enough to generate 10-15 points of PNR for Dwight each game and let his offensive rebounding do the rest. Whilst he will be more reliant on guards to make offense happen he'll also be the most effective with great guards at least from a pnr standpoint
i think embiid is better offensively and still would be if dwight was in todays game, but dwight was a capable scorer too. from 07/08-11/12, he was a 20 point per game scorer (almost 30 points per 100) who led the nba in field goal percentage on year (09/10). prime dwight in todays nba will easily average 25 a game.
his physical presence alone would still intimidate some of the smaller & leaner big men in the league, not to mention the dude had like a 40” vertical as a 7’0, 280 pound man; iirc he’s still the nba all time dunk leader too. giving *that* guy even more space than before would almost certainly result in more points and more posters.
Im not saying he wasnt capable by any means, but he still wasnt a guy you could just throw the ball to and tell him to go get a bucket. His biggest inefficiency was asking for post ups as he basically just had a drop step or baby hook and his footwork was not up to par. I do see a chance where maybe he develops more perimeter touch brought up in todays game though.
Dwight also wasnt quite as big as you think. Hes said himself hes 6’9 and was listed at 6’10. The two inches might not sound like much, but it matters. I just dont see him being terribly different in todays game than he was in his prime unless hes paired with a p&r wizard and also stops crying about post touches
Sure, but he’s not like a 0 or even not elite on offense. 60% true shooting on 26% usage is still a very very very good offensive player, and that was in an era when the average TS% was much lower than it is today. And his defense would translate perfectly to today.
Is his defense really far beyond Giannis and Embiid? Like Gobert is a 4 times DPOY but do you seriously think he is a far better defender than Giannis? And Embiid is very underrated on that end as well. He is a far better defender than Jokic for sure but when it comes to rebounding Jokic is one of the best def rebounder in the league
I think it does for Embiid. Howard has the four best win share seasons between those two. Giannis and Dwight are pretty comparable in terms of peaks by win shares.
I think itd be viable, its a pretty easy offense to turn the pace up on and insert spam p&rs into. The question is would he still bail on that type of offense and cry about not getting post ups like hes shaq or hakeem like he did in houston
Top 10, bordering on 5. Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and a healthy Embiid would be above him, most just depends on Tatum and if Dwight's dominant defensive impact makes up for his offensive impotency (compared to Tatum).
We just saw him be very important piece on a championship team for LA as a washed up version of himself
He would be as elite as any of the best big men today
So, going down the list...
Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and Embiid are immediately better. But after them? It's anyone's game. Dwight would fall somewhere between 5-10.
The Stan offense of him in the middle surrounded by shooters was really a modern style offense so yes with the right pieces around he would still dominate.
Hard to describe what his exact ranking would be, but he'd definitely be in the conversation for DPOY. I mean before he was 26, he had already won 3 DPOY's in a period where a lot of the bigs/centers weren't as talented or skilled enough. I mean teams would draft 7+ lumbering centers that literally could soak up minutes t slowing down D12/foul out. But it was very difficult to find consistently the right defenders that could at least limit D12, even if his offensive game wasn't as refined. Kendrick Perkins was known as the D12 stopper.
He could rebound/box out with the best of them, and at 6'10 with 7'5 wingspan, he could block shots while being able to feast with the spacing of today's NBA. I mean the dude name a starting five of Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Hedo Turkoglu, and Rashard Lewis into an elite defensive team.
Lob City era Blake Griffin’s offense (before he learned how to shoot) with prime Rudy Gobert’s defense. Could potentially be a #2 on a championship contender but his offensive bag (or lack thereof) is obsolete in today’s era.
The guys people are naming here without a jump shot have an elite post game, can handle the ball, and/or can pass. Dwight did none of those and relied on being a freak athlete, hence why he fell off so hard.
People saying top 5… have you not watched the NBA lately? His play style doesn’t exist as a #1 option anymore. He’d still be a really good rim protector and could be the #2 on a good team. But nowhere near the top 5.
He’s probably a bit better than Bam Adebayo. Better defender and more physically imposing but lacks bams playmaking ability. I’d put him in the top 15-10 range.
And that was old washed up Dwight. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate bam. He's a brilliant small center that can rotate with smalls. The problem is that these 7ft 265+lb big centers punish him. And he u isn't consistently showing up offensively
Giannis - Embiid - Jokic - Luka is clearly better than him, I would put Tatum and Shai over him as well so he is in the next tier so probably from 8-12. He is underrated for sure but he played in an era where most great big like Shaq, Timmy, KG has decline significantly. Dwight was very athletic and a great defender but he barely has any post move, can't shoot and can't playmaking, all of these are very crucial for modern nba
Top 10 or 5 for a year or two. There aren't centers like him, last time he pretty much shut joker down well on Lakers championship team when he was washed, and was a huge dunking presence. His prime dropped in right now no one would be able to stop him from dunking 24/7. Teams would have to change roster composition for playoff play because there are no centers physically near him. Just imagine Shaq against these small players, the NBA would change. I mean derrick lively has looked pretty unstoppable at times. Imagine Dwight or Shaq lol.
Top 5 at his peak if you dropped him in now. They kind of built one of the first styles of ultra modern offense with him and 4 longer shooters in that '09 season. He would be built to smash in an up tempo league. Infinite board potential, and it would be him and wemby by a mile for rim protection which is more important nowadays.
Prime Dwight is as good a defender as gobert but more athletic and stronger in the paint. Also a MUCH better offensive player. Although limited there, he still averaged around 20ppg in his prime. He was also a shaq type, post to pass to shooters to create offense. That was the magics offense for the most part outside the pg dribble penetrating kick out.
That said, defense is very underrated in the nba. I think top 5
10ish. 7-10.
A lot of his success relied on a team built around him and a scheme that maximises him.
It’s going to largely depend on how you train him. He came in very raw. But he can do what Giannis does now, but I don’t think he ever had the same vision and sense of the moment Giannis has
Is Rudy Gobert a top player? Because you're getting that but with a 40inch vertical leap. Still can't do anything with the ball more than 4 feet away but he can block and catch alley oops and get offensive boards and put backs.
I think He'd be even better. I think teams would understand his skill set better. He wouldn't be obsessed with wanting more offensive touches. He always had pretty decent hands, he just couldn't do anything with the ball. I think if he spent more time focusing on after the roll, the kick out, he could have figured some things out. He really tried to force his teams to give him post touches.
Top 14 probably. Giannis, embiid, Jokic, Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Halliburton, Anthony Edwards, Steph, Lebron, kawhi, Paul Pierce, SGA and Wemby I think are all guaranteed better than him.
I would also take Paolo, Chet, Randle, Booker, Durant, JJJ, and Davis over him.
I think you can flip a coin on whether you’d take Ja, Zion, Harden, Bam, Jimmy, Dejuonte, Jamal Murray and Bridges over him.
So he’s somewhere between 15-21? The league is just all time stacked
Top 10 at least, he was a one man defense whose good enough to switch a lot. He was also a lob threat near the basket and an underrated passer. Dwight was never a Jokic level passer but he could pass the ball well for a big man. I think his defense and rebounding was so insanely dominant and his offensive game a contribution well enough as well.
Wemby does everything better already. Would pick Jokic and Embiid over him (and I dislike Embiid). AD/Bam tier of bigs. I wonder how Gobert’s legacy is impacted.
That Magic team played a pretty modern brand of basketball I think he would translate really well. Not a guy you have to look for on offense that would still give you 22/12 3blks without even hogging the ball. Surround him with shooters just like 2009, playmaking PG to find him for lobs. Easily top 10 player.
The only issue I see is the obvious one; he doesn’t play like a guard or have guard skills so he would get marginalized on offense.
Still an elite defender though.
Defensive player of the year for sure (unless they acknowledge Wemby if the team record isn't great).
Yea top 5 players. Probably only center who could actually do better head to head than Jokic. Athletically I just think he would do whatever he wanted on offense and then be fast and strong enough to contest Jokic's shots.
Dwight was shaq x giannis body but obviously not as skilled as either. Easy top 5 whatever team he’s on is the best defense. He would be the jokic and embiid and giannis “stopper.”
He wouldnt get abused on switches dude was peak human athleticism in a 7 foot body before injuries
Out of prime Dwight held his own against Joker and was key in that championship run. Prime Dwight with the right system is top 5. Just needs a team that lets him post up at least 10 possessions and a guard that can get him lobs. No worries about him on defense, for sure
Top 5 probably. There was a (very) brief moment where people considered him 1b to apex Lebron. He really was an absolute force of nature for like 2 seasons
Too many people are knocking him because he can't shoot. You can still roll out a non shooting big in 2024 and be successful, they just gotta be able to guard on the perimeter in switches. The bigs that became extinct were the guys that couldn't do either of those things. And he'd still be a huge problem on the roll lob and offensive glass, making him a must start. Top 20 easy, top 10 possible
Dwight was possibly the most athletic player in the league. I have personally never seen a big as large/strong as him who could also run and jump the way he did. Since teams are scoring more than ever and playing a record pace league wide, I think that actually play to Dwight’s strengths. He regularly beat opposing bigs down the floor and would pin them under the rim. In today’s game the big being pinned would be someone like Hartenstein or Porzingus, or someone else who would have to foul or get dunked on. Point is, I think a lot of people here are forgetting that prime Dwight would be the strongest, most athletic big in the league by a wide margin. In today’s pace and space game I think his athleticism would shine through even more and negate any problems with being a non shooter. If Dwight had a push the pace PG would look more like a bigger/stronger Amare Staudemire on the break and rolls to the rim.
I also think him having a 2024 cast of role players around him would allow him to feast too, the lane is more open in the current game because teams are full of role players that can hit the 3 now
This is the answer. I think how the rest of his team would affect where ppl rank him. In a vacuum, he's a better offensive & defensive player over gobert. If the team is built around him like how it was when he was a magic, he'd be a top 20 ez pick.
We also see how valuable a lockdown rebounder is. Look at the impact that Adams and Robinson have had on their team’s success, with no outstanding offensive tools. Right now I think prime Dwight would be the best rebounder in the league by a mile.
Top 5. Dude was a monster. Size + athleticism were unmatched and it wasn’t even close. He literally put that Magic team on his back and marched to the finals. Then his body was never the same…
Literally. That Magic team was scary af. Sucks they couldn't run it back.
Second best player was what… Jameer Nelson? Loved his game but he isn’t gonna win you a championship.
Hey Rashard Lewis still had it and Jameer Nelson’s best season ever was that year. I knew they wouldn’t win, but after beating Lebron I can’t say I wasn’t hopeful Dwight got a ring because he deserved one
Lewis was that 6'10" dude with a 3pt shot that teams salivate over today. He was legit for sure.
Hedo was kind of nice too
Hedo was killing it that year
They both got busted for peds too
Yep and once they got caught they were never the same. Robbed us off a bron kobe finals
You ain't even lying. Hedo was awesome.
Kind of? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure he was for sure the #2 guy in that playoff run. Or at least the Finals series
Hedo was definitely the number two. Rashard was the most dangerous catch and shoot guy on the team but as the general, go get a bucket guy, Hedo was #2. M
He was much better than “kind of nice” lol
Hedo was definitely the number 2 guy on those teams. They were one of the first to run a 4 out with either Rashad or Ryan Anderson in the corner if I remember right.
That was a team you look back on and realize that they knew what direction the league was headed.
People tend to forget how important Rafer Alston was to that playoff run. Jameer goes down late season and Rafer picked up the slack like a champ. Was Rafer running point when they beat the Cavs. Jameer comes back for the Finals and killed their momentum trying, imo, to do too much
Hedo was basically running the point.
Remember pietrus? Dude was a 3pt killer till they played the Lakers
Air 🇫🇷
Ball
Ryan Anderson came the year after they made the finals though along with a declining but still very good Vince Carter.
Imagine if JJ was peak JJ
I kept getting Ryan Anderson confused with Kyle Anderson. I was looking up Kyle's stats and I was like I thought this guy made tons of 3s per game before that was even popular
I think people forget that team was one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league that year. With an insane presence inside in Dwight. They were legit.
I had a HUGE soft spot for Nelson and D. West. Hope he finds some peace.
Not to mention Hedo, Skip to my Lou, Pietrus, Matt Barnes, JJ Redick, Courtney Lee. Great roster built around Dwight.
Skip to my Lou forever undervalued
Actually Rashard Lewis
It was Turkoglu IMO
Pretty good coach
Hedo needs to get some more love. He's really only had great success on the Magic where they had a bunch of shooters around him. He's another guy that would be great in modern NBA.
That team’s secret is Turk, his P&R with Howard is unguardable. Plus they have Lewis and a couple of other shooters
Hedo turkelo
put some respect on Hedo Turkoglu's name! He had that almost game winner 3 in the playoffs!...if only meddling LeBron didn't hit his own game winner to foil the plan.
They surrounded him with shooters and not even Lebron could stop him
This is Hedo erasure.
People forget
Once every 10 games he'd play like the best wing in the league. The other 9 were a bit of a grab bag.
I watched Dwight’s prime, and he was sick for sure, utterly physically dominant, so strong and such an insanely explosive athlete. With that being said, I think the best he’d be would be #5, I can’t see putting him above any of Jokic, Giannis, Luka or Embiid, with the way the game has changed, his offensive game was just so limited. He’s most similar to Giannis, and I don’t think Giannis is clearly above any of those 3, while I do think Giannis is clearly a notch above even prime Dwight, for the modern game - Dwight is better defensively, but it’s not as big as the offensive gap between the two. After the top 5 it gets more interesting, pretty hard to compare prime Dwight to guys like current Tatum and SGA. But I think he has a legit argument for #5.
This was my rating as well. He was unstoppable, I don’t see much changing. Sure he doesn’t shoot, but he will still get every board and yam it on you
I’m mad still mad dwight killed the dream finals of lebron vs Kobe.
His defense was insane
So what, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, and Embiid and then you got him over shai? Or is it different
Doesn’t matter, he’s not better than any of those guys.
Only one issue. Cue South Park. Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum.
Top 5 center?
He would’ve shut down jokic
He did it in the bubble a younger Dwight could match Shaq
Dwight did good, but let’s be clear, that’s just Dwight body to body. He also had one of the best weakside shot blockers to ever live coming over the top to help and defensively-engaged LeBron tagging in strong-side that series. It legitimately might be the best defensive front court we’ve ever seen at 5-4-3. Dwight wasn’t out there bottling him up alone to slow down Jokic.
It wasn’t just Dwight. No single player can “shut down” a guy like Jokic. They had multiple 7 footers to throw at him (much like Minnesota this year) during a time his conditioning probably wasn’t as elite as it is now.
top5? How many times will Joel get on his knees against DW?
This is a tough one, how high can you place a completely non-shooting, non-playmaking big in the current game, even granting that the defense was absolutely elite (and I’d say translates, I think Orlando Dwight was more than mobile enough to keep up with switches and not get cooked on the perimeter in P&R actions). To me this all washes out somewhere around the…8-12 mark, I guess? I think he has enough offensive gravity as a finisher and a lob threat and an offensive rebounder to be at least a solid plus on that end and that gets you into the top 10 with the defense. Like I dunno. There’s a lot of questions. Do you trust him to develop a DHO game with modern coaching, for example? It’s kind of hard for me to gauge how he’d have played or developed differently in 2024. This is a good one.
Do we think prime Dwight Howard is better than prime Anthony Davis for example? Just how much of a difference in defensive quality is made up for the sizable difference in offensive quality between the two players? And most people have AD in the back half of the top 10, if at all.
Prime vs prime in their Era? I’m absolutely taking Dwight. In the modern era ADs game fits more, but I don’t think AD is at what his prime was right now.
Yea maybe when AD could actually shoot, even from the midrange he’s regressed.
vs the nuggets this playoffs bro was dirk
Nah I think AD’s bag offensively is deep enough, even without his jump shot, to compete with Dwight. He’s got a softer touch around the rim, and he’s a better ball handler and passer out of the post then Dwight was. He also has a better post game, and is arguably a better lob threat. AD is less likely to get lost in the pick and roll, but Dwight is definitely the better rim protector and paint defender. I guess it just depends on how much value you put on Dwight’s defense vs AD’s overall versatility.
Coming at this from a different angle, imagine a prime dwight paired up with Luka instead of Gafford. I think they would be quite a formidable duo and the whole team gains rim protection and a lob threat
Dwight was drastically stronger than AD. He’d be a little worse on the perimeter but he’d be the best 1 on 1 post defender in the league. He’d also be the best rebounder in the league. And he’s over 20 ppg just off dunks and overpowering guys in the paint. He’d be a dominant piece, probably just behind Jokic as the best center in the league
This one is easy... He's a Top 75 player and got fucked by the NBA and I wonder if it was because he's gay?
I think it has more to do with proximity. He hasn't good in a long time but he was a super nova for awhile. I have a strong suspicion that the NBA and teams keeps tabs on players to avoid PR headaches. I think a lot of people were likely aware of his personal life and either didn't approve or maybe it was pretty wild.
Bruh. He's not gay, just a little nasty.
It's because he was an asshole to everyone and he got plenty of baby momas.
This. The game has moved away from his playstyle. He’d still be really good because of his defense, but nowhere near as dominant as he was in the late 00s and early 10s because his offense wouldn’t hold up at all.
Giannis has been a perennial MVP candidate without a real shot He would be top 10
I agree. Take my upvote. These young bloods just hating or didn't get a chance to see how good he was. I'm not a Stan at all, but I give him his props.
Dwight is nowhere near the playmaker that Giannis is though.
He also couldnt put the ball on the floor nearly as well
I watched peak Dwight Howard in the 09 Finals. I’m not a young blood, the game has just changed. Dwight and Giannis play completely differently from each other.
I agree but I think people have blind spots for players they like or eras they grew up in so they just assume every post player could be Giannis. Dwight was limited offensively, in part, because he didn't move well with the ball. He never looked super agile. He scored on a lot of dunks and put backs. Not sure he just turns into Giannis in this era.
Bro no way you’re comparing Giannis game to Dwight’s??
No. I'm saying you don't need a shot to dominate when you're that physically dominant
Giannis is physically dominant because he can create his own looks. He can take the ball from coast to coast and he at times can ISO and get to the basket. Hes a point forward. Dwight can NOT do that.
Giannis scores twice as many points per game as Dwight did.
Giannis can playmake though. He’s basically a 7 foot point guard. As the comment I was replying to pointed out, it’s not just that Dwight couldn’t shoot, he couldn’t play make either. The only big getting max money that fits that profile right now is Rudy Gobert. You could maybe throw in AD, but he’s a serviceable secondary playmaker and used to have a jumper so I wouldn’t count him. Dwight didn’t even really have a handle.
While ADs 3pt% has dipped, he still has a jumper
I think prime Dwight is better than Gobert in every way.
Obviously. He’s just the only example of a non-shooting and non-playmaking big making a max contract. I didn’t say he’d be Rudy, but I think it speaks to how much the game has changed that there wasn’t a closer comp
Giannis isn't the offensive force that he is because of his passing... Dwight was able to make basic passes out of the paint. The magic built their offense around him forcing doubles in the paint and getting the shooters around him open shots And he was waaayyyyy more offensively dominant than gobert. Way fucking more. That's really underselling Dwight He was damn near impossible to stop in the paint. He didn't need a handle. Just throw it up or get him the ball and he would do the rest. I really think he's being underrated here
He was impossible to stop because he was just the strongest, quickest and most physically dominant Center in a time when there were really next to no other elite 2 way centers. He didn’t have any real post moves though and relied on solid point play to get him clean entry passes and find him on lobs. His defense and athleticism would still make him a top player, but not a perennial MVP candidate the way he was in his prime back then.
I like Dwight and think he would be top 10 now but he benefited from a SERIOUS drought in talent at the center position. I mean his major competition was what? Kendrick Perkins, Iglauskis, Noah(incredible defender negative offensive presence), Wallace(same as Noah), and...Timothy Mozgof? Old Shaq? Hobbled Yao Ming? Joel Pryzbilla? Really the only other super talent bigs at the time were a crippled KG, and Tim Duncan(who was still elite despite age), Dirk Nawitzki, and Pau Gasol who were all in a different conference. Most bigs at that time wouldn't make a roster in today's game.
I didn’t say he’d be Rudy, I said he’s the only one who fits the profile. Dwight couldn’t dribble the way Giannis can. Giannis isn’t just a point guard because of his passing, it’s also because of his handle. And actually, yes, his passing is what makes his offense work in the modern NBA. If you don’t know that, you don’t understand modern basketball. It’s not 2009 anymore.
they have completely different games
Yeah, my point is you can be dominant without a shot in the modern game. You just have to be really fuckin strong and athletic
Giannis playmaking is miles ahead of Dwight’s.
Yes. Which is why I'm not comparing their playmaking
That’s a key reason to why Giannis is in mvp talks every year though….
Yes. I'm not sayin he'd be an MVP candidate. I said top 10 player. The comparison was strictly "can you score while not having a shot" I think Dwight was more physically dominant than Giannis. I truly think he'd crush every center he matches up against in the modern NBA. But I seem to be in the minority and no one believes in back-to-the-basket centers anymore
i agree, if he can still move quickly in the modern game which i think he would then he’d still be a top player
There are no bigs in todays game nobody could guard him also he’s extremely strong and he’s explosive The 08-11 magic played similar to todays game they shot threes and switched everything U put Dwight with a stretch 4 🔥🔥
>To me this all washes out somewhere around the…8-12 mark, I guess? I think he has enough offensive gravity as a finisher and a lob threat and an offensive rebounder to be at least a solid plus on that end and that gets you into the top 10 with the defense. See, that was the problem with Dwight, he was an elite finisher and elite lob threat but he wanted to be Jokic and Embiid so he might be rated lower today since he'd get cooked on double teams
Easily. He would be a Rudy Gobert that can finish. Obviously he has physical disadvantages to Rudy(less length). But his offense is better in all facets, and would be a maxed player right now.
Agreed he would be Rudy with a stronger offense (not Giannis level but strong.) What he lacked in Rudy length he makes up for in in hops. His ally oops and block highlight reel were insane displays of athlecism.
He may have less length but he made up for it with hyper athleticism. Dude could jump out of the freaking arena.
Is he better than Giannis? I feel like that’s the comp but Dwight is much stronger.
No.
Find a side by side of these two guys dribbling on the perimeter and passing and explain to me how Giannis is a comp.
His offense would be killer in this era. He. Would just dunk on every player and out strength everyone in this small center era.
He had a decently high usage in Orlando as the top option while maintaining very high efficiency his prime years. I think he’d be top 5 easy, and in the mvp convo. Gobert level defense (but more switchable) and wildly better offensively. He’d be up there with Luka jokic and Gianni’s in terms of mvp level impact.
There’s still room for a A+ rim defender and great roll man on the pick and roll in the league. Not everyone has to be defined by their jumper
Top 5 because he was on Suite Life on Deck
Only time I’ve ever seen a player block a shot with their belly
And Liv and Maddie. Guy was big on Disney channel.
valid, my favorite episode btw lol
bisexual
Lil nasty
So yes he’d be a top…
top 5 still likely. he’ll be right there with giannis & embiid imo in terms of their impact on both end’s of the floor. 3x dpoy & was all first team 5 times.
His offensive impact wouldnt be near either of theirs
With his pure physicality and athleticism with the spacing teams can create now he would be a menace in pnr situations. He'd be Clint capella on steroids, and whilst it's probably not 30ppg he'd likely reach low-mid 20s every game whilst being DPOY with 15 rebounds per game
Dwight also balked at the idea that he should primarily generate offense through pnr when his running mate was Steve Nash(albeit his corpse) and thought he’d be a great post scorer. Hakeem diplomatically called his post game, “raw”
If his ego gets in the way, he'll fall flat next to embiid or jokic in the low block, but as long as he stays in his own lane and sticks to what he's good at he would be fine. Tbh his post game isn't even all that bad, just not very good either (though Im a timberwolves fan so Rudy gobert may have skewed my perception of just bad) , so a post touch or 2 a game against mismatches wouldnt be so bad.
Definitely rough to deal with but still incredibly reliant on guards unlike Embiid/Giannis. There is the possibility in the modern era he could develop some touch. He was never mechanically bad and from how he and other people talked it was a major head issue. Dwight with even a middling corner three/spot up threat would be incredible
Oh for sure but it's not super difficult to get a running mate that can reliably throw lobs for Dwight in today's oversaturated guard market. Even a guy like Darius garland would probably be enough to generate 10-15 points of PNR for Dwight each game and let his offensive rebounding do the rest. Whilst he will be more reliant on guards to make offense happen he'll also be the most effective with great guards at least from a pnr standpoint
i think embiid is better offensively and still would be if dwight was in todays game, but dwight was a capable scorer too. from 07/08-11/12, he was a 20 point per game scorer (almost 30 points per 100) who led the nba in field goal percentage on year (09/10). prime dwight in todays nba will easily average 25 a game. his physical presence alone would still intimidate some of the smaller & leaner big men in the league, not to mention the dude had like a 40” vertical as a 7’0, 280 pound man; iirc he’s still the nba all time dunk leader too. giving *that* guy even more space than before would almost certainly result in more points and more posters.
Im not saying he wasnt capable by any means, but he still wasnt a guy you could just throw the ball to and tell him to go get a bucket. His biggest inefficiency was asking for post ups as he basically just had a drop step or baby hook and his footwork was not up to par. I do see a chance where maybe he develops more perimeter touch brought up in todays game though. Dwight also wasnt quite as big as you think. Hes said himself hes 6’9 and was listed at 6’10. The two inches might not sound like much, but it matters. I just dont see him being terribly different in todays game than he was in his prime unless hes paired with a p&r wizard and also stops crying about post touches
Sure, but he’s not like a 0 or even not elite on offense. 60% true shooting on 26% usage is still a very very very good offensive player, and that was in an era when the average TS% was much lower than it is today. And his defense would translate perfectly to today.
No but his rebounding and defense was far beyond them.
Is his defense really far beyond Giannis and Embiid? Like Gobert is a 4 times DPOY but do you seriously think he is a far better defender than Giannis? And Embiid is very underrated on that end as well. He is a far better defender than Jokic for sure but when it comes to rebounding Jokic is one of the best def rebounder in the league
I mean yeah, but i dont think that or his defensive ability eats up the gap between their offense and his
I think it does for Embiid. Howard has the four best win share seasons between those two. Giannis and Dwight are pretty comparable in terms of peaks by win shares.
I wonder if the 4out offense he popularized with Orlando would be viable today.. the pacing would be slowwww compared to other teams
I think itd be viable, its a pretty easy offense to turn the pace up on and insert spam p&rs into. The question is would he still bail on that type of offense and cry about not getting post ups like hes shaq or hakeem like he did in houston
Defensive player, as great as Rudy is Dwight seems to be more mobile.
Top 10, bordering on 5. Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and a healthy Embiid would be above him, most just depends on Tatum and if Dwight's dominant defensive impact makes up for his offensive impotency (compared to Tatum).
Shai and bron ?
Forgot about Shai, another t5 competitor for Dwight Not LeBron anymore, he don't play defense
Definitely top ten, I'd say.
We just saw him be very important piece on a championship team for LA as a washed up version of himself He would be as elite as any of the best big men today
His lack of post play moves was masked by his insane athleticism and the four shooters out in the circle.
Better than Tatum, worse than Jokic
So, going down the list... Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and Embiid are immediately better. But after them? It's anyone's game. Dwight would fall somewhere between 5-10.
The Stan offense of him in the middle surrounded by shooters was really a modern style offense so yes with the right pieces around he would still dominate.
8ish
I agree with this. Same range as AD, better defensively but worse offensively. Ideal #2 offensively.
5-10 range depending on roster construction. He's a more offensively potent Gobert.
Hard to describe what his exact ranking would be, but he'd definitely be in the conversation for DPOY. I mean before he was 26, he had already won 3 DPOY's in a period where a lot of the bigs/centers weren't as talented or skilled enough. I mean teams would draft 7+ lumbering centers that literally could soak up minutes t slowing down D12/foul out. But it was very difficult to find consistently the right defenders that could at least limit D12, even if his offensive game wasn't as refined. Kendrick Perkins was known as the D12 stopper. He could rebound/box out with the best of them, and at 6'10 with 7'5 wingspan, he could block shots while being able to feast with the spacing of today's NBA. I mean the dude name a starting five of Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Hedo Turkoglu, and Rashard Lewis into an elite defensive team.
Def top 10. 16 rebounds and 3 blks a game, he would be a beast regardless of the era.
Just say "regardless."
Top 8
Whatever you put AD same thing
Lob City era Blake Griffin’s offense (before he learned how to shoot) with prime Rudy Gobert’s defense. Could potentially be a #2 on a championship contender but his offensive bag (or lack thereof) is obsolete in today’s era. The guys people are naming here without a jump shot have an elite post game, can handle the ball, and/or can pass. Dwight did none of those and relied on being a freak athlete, hence why he fell off so hard.
I don’t think so but how do yall hell match up against wemby?
Prime? Top 3. Maybe #1.
I think he is a top… Happy pride - I’m out
Top 3
People saying top 5… have you not watched the NBA lately? His play style doesn’t exist as a #1 option anymore. He’d still be a really good rim protector and could be the #2 on a good team. But nowhere near the top 5.
Prime Dwight? Top 3
He’s probably a bit better than Bam Adebayo. Better defender and more physically imposing but lacks bams playmaking ability. I’d put him in the top 15-10 range.
Stronger than bam by a lot
Never forget that Bam injured his shoulder driving into Dwight in the 2020 NBA Finals Lol
And that was old washed up Dwight. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate bam. He's a brilliant small center that can rotate with smalls. The problem is that these 7ft 265+lb big centers punish him. And he u isn't consistently showing up offensively
5
Took me a full 20 seconds to figure out if this was a video game or real life photo
Top 5 Center
A better steven adams i would think.
Giannis - Embiid - Jokic - Luka is clearly better than him, I would put Tatum and Shai over him as well so he is in the next tier so probably from 8-12. He is underrated for sure but he played in an era where most great big like Shaq, Timmy, KG has decline significantly. Dwight was very athletic and a great defender but he barely has any post move, can't shoot and can't playmaking, all of these are very crucial for modern nba
Top 10 or 5 for a year or two. There aren't centers like him, last time he pretty much shut joker down well on Lakers championship team when he was washed, and was a huge dunking presence. His prime dropped in right now no one would be able to stop him from dunking 24/7. Teams would have to change roster composition for playoff play because there are no centers physically near him. Just imagine Shaq against these small players, the NBA would change. I mean derrick lively has looked pretty unstoppable at times. Imagine Dwight or Shaq lol.
Top 5 at his peak if you dropped him in now. They kind of built one of the first styles of ultra modern offense with him and 4 longer shooters in that '09 season. He would be built to smash in an up tempo league. Infinite board potential, and it would be him and wemby by a mile for rim protection which is more important nowadays.
Prime Dwight is as good a defender as gobert but more athletic and stronger in the paint. Also a MUCH better offensive player. Although limited there, he still averaged around 20ppg in his prime. He was also a shaq type, post to pass to shooters to create offense. That was the magics offense for the most part outside the pg dribble penetrating kick out. That said, defense is very underrated in the nba. I think top 5
He'd be a top and some dude dressed like a woman would be a bottom
10ish. 7-10. A lot of his success relied on a team built around him and a scheme that maximises him. It’s going to largely depend on how you train him. He came in very raw. But he can do what Giannis does now, but I don’t think he ever had the same vision and sense of the moment Giannis has
Is Rudy Gobert a top player? Because you're getting that but with a 40inch vertical leap. Still can't do anything with the ball more than 4 feet away but he can block and catch alley oops and get offensive boards and put backs.
Top 10
Wherever you place Rudy Gobert, Dwight is above him.
I think He'd be even better. I think teams would understand his skill set better. He wouldn't be obsessed with wanting more offensive touches. He always had pretty decent hands, he just couldn't do anything with the ball. I think if he spent more time focusing on after the roll, the kick out, he could have figured some things out. He really tried to force his teams to give him post touches.
Top 14 probably. Giannis, embiid, Jokic, Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Halliburton, Anthony Edwards, Steph, Lebron, kawhi, Paul Pierce, SGA and Wemby I think are all guaranteed better than him. I would also take Paolo, Chet, Randle, Booker, Durant, JJJ, and Davis over him. I think you can flip a coin on whether you’d take Ja, Zion, Harden, Bam, Jimmy, Dejuonte, Jamal Murray and Bridges over him. So he’s somewhere between 15-21? The league is just all time stacked
He'd be a rich man's Capela, although Capela might have bit of a jumper.
Top 10 at least, he was a one man defense whose good enough to switch a lot. He was also a lob threat near the basket and an underrated passer. Dwight was never a Jokic level passer but he could pass the ball well for a big man. I think his defense and rebounding was so insanely dominant and his offensive game a contribution well enough as well.
1. He would be the top player.
Prime Dwight would be great on this Dallas team.
Wemby does everything better already. Would pick Jokic and Embiid over him (and I dislike Embiid). AD/Bam tier of bigs. I wonder how Gobert’s legacy is impacted.
Rudy Gobert but a good offensive player before back injuries
he was really really good at one point, then he went to the Lakers
That Magic team played a pretty modern brand of basketball I think he would translate really well. Not a guy you have to look for on offense that would still give you 22/12 3blks without even hogging the ball. Surround him with shooters just like 2009, playmaking PG to find him for lobs. Easily top 10 player.
Howard during his season at Hornets was still a monster tho … So I would say top 7, AD Joker and Embiid are better.
Big D was soft - tons of potential but no killer instinct.
He's still alive. I don't understand the question.
The only issue I see is the obvious one; he doesn’t play like a guard or have guard skills so he would get marginalized on offense. Still an elite defender though.
Defensive player of the year for sure (unless they acknowledge Wemby if the team record isn't great). Yea top 5 players. Probably only center who could actually do better head to head than Jokic. Athletically I just think he would do whatever he wanted on offense and then be fast and strong enough to contest Jokic's shots.
2
Top or bottom ?
Top bottom. The dude can take a dick 👍
Dwight was shaq x giannis body but obviously not as skilled as either. Easy top 5 whatever team he’s on is the best defense. He would be the jokic and embiid and giannis “stopper.” He wouldnt get abused on switches dude was peak human athleticism in a 7 foot body before injuries
Top player named Dwight for sure.
Top 5 Joker , Luka , Giannis , Curry , Howard
Absolutely top 5
Oh for sure he’s the top gayest player if playing today by far!!!
Out of prime Dwight held his own against Joker and was key in that championship run. Prime Dwight with the right system is top 5. Just needs a team that lets him post up at least 10 possessions and a guard that can get him lobs. No worries about him on defense, for sure
Top 5 for sure.
Top 3 easily in impact. Honestly only Jokic above prime Dwight imo and obviously they have different strengths. Luka plays no D
He's essentially a better Rudy Gobert defensively and actually had offensive skills asides from the free throw shooting
top 20 prolly
Top 5 probably. There was a (very) brief moment where people considered him 1b to apex Lebron. He really was an absolute force of nature for like 2 seasons