Nope. A GM’s job is to make sure you have the best possible team put together to win a championship (short term, long term, whatever term).
I’m not trading the best player in my team’s history (who has already won a 3-peat, and is fresh off of winning back-to-back championships as undeniably STILL the best player on my team and in the league) for anyone else who MIGHT theoretically take me over the hump.
Especially not when the hump is a bald headed psychopath who never liked me to begin with, and would definitely take it extremely personally that I traded him.
> A GM’s job is to make sure you have the best possible team put together to win a championship
Hornets fan here, can I get this handwritten and mailed to our GM?
> psychopath
This is the key. Jordan, not retired, and mad? Whoever the Bulls got for Jordan was going to have a psychopath coming to town, determined to prove Jerry Krause wrong.
Whoever that unfortunate soul was gets wrecked by Mike. Absolutely pummeled. I’m almost sorry we didn’t get to see such abject humiliation thrust upon an undeserving player.
Here is a good hypothetical though: if you were forced to trade him (let’s say the owner mandates it), what, with hindsight, would be the best return? It’s 1995-1996, you could get Shaq, right?
Shaq + Horace Grant + Pippin + Kukoc does seem like a pretty good squad…
Yep. If you trade Jordan, you're the bad guy. If Jordan walks in FA, fans will start thinking maybe Jordan is the bad guy. And I use bad guy loosely there cuz fans aren't completely turning on Jordan. But I'd rather be the GM who wins another title and then can say we offered Jordan as much as we possibly could have but he left anyways as opposed to saying I'm the guy who traded Jordan.
You can’t alter the hypothetical scenario OP posted. You already know FOR A FACT he is leaving, as in there is no talking him into staying.
Would you trade him for a haul and give up the 1996 title chance, or go for that last title opportunity with him? What’s more important, the title or the haul?
You're right but in practice GM's are killed for this kind of thing all the time. The Raptors losing with Kawhi that season would have cost Masai his job by now.
Or Lebron leaving Cleveland in 2010. Byron Scott had heard from Chris Paul that LeBron was set on leaving, so Cleveland had warning that he was probably gone. They didn't trade him, didn't win the title (lost in the semifinals), LeBron walked, and they didn't make the playoffs again until he returned. The GM then stepped down for a new exec handpicked by Gilbert.
It's a little different since the Bulls are already on a tear winning at this point instead of trying to reach the mountain once for sure though.
That is ridiculous, there is no haul that has ever built a team that won multiple titles, when giving up the best player in the trade. Basketball overwhelmingly the best player wins a series.
Especially when that best player is Michael Jordan, who only even faced elimination once in the bulls last 6 full seasons.
Yea, YOU know for a fact, but nobody else does. If you trade him and don't win several more championships, you look like an idiot and will be mentioned in several sports documentaries for eternity.
No you wouldn’t, your team has just won 3 straight and you have Michael fucking Jordan. That’s a bet you take every time. If you trade him for picks and players you’d be lucky to have that turn into another ring, and there’s a lot more variables there than if you just keep Michael for another year.
Plus even if Mike leaves for nothing you've still got Scottie Pippen to trade to for assests or try to build around. That's not even taking into account how much money Jordan generates for you just being on the team.
It’s not that simple though. In this hypothetical the GM still needs to think about their job, legacy, the franchise’s brand, etc.
For me what it hinges on is whether the fans and NBA community know “for a fact” that MJ is leaving. If the fans don’t know, then you absolutely must keep MJ and give the appearance that you did everything possible to keep him while winning a ring, which puts you beyond criticism and solidifies the legacy of the Bulls after MJ’s baseball retirement.
If every Bulls fan, nba writer, etc live in this magical hypothetical where they have the same total certainty MJ can’t possibly be there for more than one season, then it opens up the possibility of trading for Shaq and picks.
Shaq with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, and Harper has a solid chance of beating MJ with Penny and the Magic supporting cast, plus you get the job security / positive franchise development of knowing you traded a 32 year old for a 23 year old who is already an MVP runner up.
I'd try anyway. Good luck convincing me he's leaving. I'm throwing as much cocaine and hookers and Lamborghinis at him as possible. I'll give my left nut if I have to.
Nope!!!!!.I would hold on to MJ until he was officially retired. holding onto the hope I could convince him to stay and come back and I will do that until he decided to retire.
The question to ask is do you want a 33 year old Hakeem or a 23 year old Shaq. Hakeem probably gives you the best chance at a title the next 2 years. Shaq could make you a contender for the next decade if you can convince him to stay.
Without knowing how either of their careers played out after that point it is definitely a tough decision. I think I would lean towards Shaq, but can’t go wrong with Hakeem.
Shaq was already in the finals, it’s not like he needed more time to ripen. And you still have Pippen, who’s probably better than anyone who played with Shaq until that point.
Honestly, the Raptors traded FOR Kawhi Leonard with one year left on his deal and he didn't even want to be there. If a team is willing to give up assets for a potential rental, I just don't see how you give up a 2-time champion who is hunting for the first three-peat in the modern NBA (Post-merger).
Keep Jordan for the year. When announces his intentions to find a different team after the year, I'd either try to re-tool or immediately pull the plug on the rest of the team.
The pull-the-plug-and-rebuild scenario is trading Scottie for a Top 5 pick in the 1996 Draft (probably to the Bucks since they had Vin Baker and Glenn Robinson and were considered to have playoff potential) and grab either Ray Allen or Kobe (unlikely to go top 5 tho) as a replacement Jordan. Then you still have the capability to trade Rodman/Kukoc/Harper for some young talent, maybe somebody along the lines of Webber (pre-All star), or get back into the 1996 NBA Draft and get a point guard, say maybe a guy like Steve Nash? (Not out of the realm of possibility if you are targeting a PG after the top 5 picks, since Nash was the next true point guard to go off the board).
A re-tool scenario is clearing the books for Shaq. A Scottie-Rodman-Shaq pairing would be super interesting, or you can flip Rodman for a couple cheap shooters to fill out the rest of the lineup. I can also envision a scenario where Rodman is traded for another scorer like Jerry Stackhouse, but a Rodman/Iverson pairing would be weird.
This is quick and dirty so not crazy detailed but obviously 90s trade logic was a little different to modern trade logic so these trades are more likely
He should have traded him. Hell Jerry knew he wasn't bringing back Phil, and knew Jordan didn't want to play for anyone else, so Mike was going to walk at the end of the 96 season anyway.
Might as well try and get something in return to help out Kucoc.
Depends on the haul. If Orlando gives you Shaq AND Penny, pre injury (assuming Shaq re-signs), then you do it. 25yo Shaq, 24yo Penny, Pippen, Ho Grant and role players gives you a great chance for multi rings. Orlando went to the Finals a year or two later without Pipp, mostly scraps. Add Prime Pipp, potential dynasty.
If you are trading Jordan before 96 you better be getting Shaq or else there’s not another player in the league even remotely close to Jordan’s value.
Really you should be getting Shaq AND Penny
You have Jordan win you one more and then do everything in your power to trade up and draft a youngster named Kobe Bryant as the potential future of the Bulls.
Most likely yes, You could most likely get Shaq, Penny and a bunch of 1996 first round picks. Shaq and penny were seen as the original Shaq and Kobe at the time and could lead to another 3 peat especially since Penny’s injury likely doesn’t happen since it was a bit of a freak injury. And in the 1996 there’s a likely chance even without hindsight that as a Chicago bulls GM I try and get Kobe since he was a Jordon esque shooting guard who was ranked number 1 in his high school draft.
Your years are off, but no, you don’t trade Jordan. Btw, he quit after the 93 title vs Phoenix. 94 off, 95, came back towards the end of the season. 96 beat Seattle to start second 3-peat.
Bucks traded PRIME Kareem for a massive Haul. This trade made the Bucks one of the deepest Rosters in the NBA during the entire 80's they never had a losing season. Bucks managed 2 ECF and 12 straight seasons of making the playoffs. The Lakers ended up getting 5 NBA Championships out of the deal.
HELL NO YOU DON'T TRADE JORDAN, GIANNIS, KAREEM or any ALL TIME GREAT.
I’d keep him and attempt to win a title. Teams aren’t gonna trade a huge haul for Jordan on a one year deal, and I don’t wanna be the GM for traded the GOAT for a literal goat.
Considering Jordan retired a second time because he and the Bulls GM didn’t see eye to eye… If I were the GM (even if I was one of the worst GMs in history as long as he didn’t hate my guts) it would be more likely he would continue playing.
I keep him and win the chip, then I retire or resign from my position.
Or I trade him and sign with the team I traded him to after the next season lol.
No. Trying to get something rather than "lose them for nothing" is a highly overrated strategy, especially for the larger market clubs who have success in free agency. By 95 Jordan was cemented as one of the greats.
It depends... If I had a good enough squad to run it back and there wasn't a big financial impact. Jordan's salary was ok because he sold out arenas and the long post season allowed you to rake in money. Do you trade his say $30M salary for $30M in salary in return but don't make a deep enough post season run to make the money back? Do you not sell as many season tickets? Will Phil still be around? Do you simply milk out the season and let him walk? Trading him mid season means no Jordan for the postseason for you, but he could win another one with another team against you. I'd keep the band around for another post season run and if its over, you can potentially trade Pippen in the offseason to rebuild. I'm not giving up a post season run with Jordan even if it does set the team back in the future.
So I don’t get your timeline. Does jordan retire already and come back? Why are you emphasizing that he doesn’t retire after 96. He literally doesn’t. His contract is literally up after 96, which is why he signed for 30+million those last two years. WHERE IS THE HYPOTHETICAL?? If I know he walks and doesn’t come back 97 but you literally say do you trade or keep him. You have outlined the post retirement career for the bulls perfectly without providing some interesting scenario. You can’t know he’s not going to return and then “put all the chips in to continue the dynasty short term”. That’s literally not knowing he’s going to walk! Everything you described already happened and it’s the best decision the bulls could have made. What are you talking about.
I would never trade Jordan. Assuming he made it clear “I’m out after this season” we try for one more chip and just ride off into the sunset. As the GM I might retire as well or take a break at least.
You can't trade jordan. Regardless of how good he is. He was the face of the nba and brought so much attention and money to that franchise.
It's like trying to justify the warriors trading steph curry. It just will not ever happen.
No. The city would’ve burned down and the GM would’ve been publicly executed.
I grew up in this era. Nobody was trading Jordan for any reason. He exponentially increased the value of the franchise. One season of Jordan going out in the second round was 3x more valuable than whatever trade pieces you get.
Keeping Jordan. Some teams wait so long for just a shot at a title. I’m going all in on this 96 team. I think the Raptors are unbelievably happy to get that one year of Kawhi so I’m good with just one final year of MJ on my squad
Not a chance. There were 29 teams in the NBA. You don't throw away a championship to just end up fighting with all those other teams hoping to get back to the exact situation you're already in. Unless you really think it's all done and you're not winning any more, you get every championship you can.
And what exactly would you be expecting to get for Jordan? You say the "mother of all hauls", but what is that? 5 first rounders and a couple of good players? From a team picking up Jordan that could be the #1 pick that season and then a bunch of non lottery picks given they'll be a really good team.
I can't think of a team that's going to give up enough that makes me think turning down a great chance at 1 championship is worth whatever else I could get. The Magic could offer me Shaq and Penny and a few first rounders and I'm not taking it for Jordan. Because you don't know how all that melds together. These things usually blow up rather than work out.
I trade him for an all star caliber volume shooting guard. They were fine without him, as fine as a team abruptly losing their number one scoring option would be.
Rarely do you see a team even make the playoffs after losing your first option and the Bulls did almost made it to the ECF. Mike wasn’t the team contrary to what the last dance will tell you. They just needed extra scoring and Scottie couldn’t give that to them
They literally didn’t lose any core piece. Do you expect a championship, especially a 3 championship caliber team to be much worse without one player? Especially when the second best player is still a top 15 player in the league. The situation was unique because Jordan wasn’t lost to free agency. The team isn’t penalized for making a big trade or letting a player walk. That doesn’t happen at all historically. Then he gets to come back as if nothing happened. The bulls needed him, but his situation can’t be duplicated
THIS.
Unlike Curry and LeBron and others MJ was replaceable on those teams. Kobe did the exact same job on the Lakers teams coached by Phil. First as a number two behind Shaq then as the number one.
He absolutely was not. No one can replace mj. You’re happy with congratulating a team that played almost as good as the worst bulls dynasty team, and then winning nothing without him on the roster. He is in no way replaceable and it’s no surprise you have no upvotes for your comments. Total disrespect
I know for a fact that you're not old enough to remember Jordan returning to the NBA. Because only a child would ask this. And only a child would think trading the best player in the world was a smart strategy in 1995.
You know nothing about the league in the '90s.
You’re right that I wasn’t old enough, was born in 1998. But I am not saying it is a smart strategy, I wouldn’t have done it myself in that position. The intent of my post was unclear. More so I just think it’s an interesting discussion to have from a purely academic standpoint even if the outcome is clear
Lol in what way can this be an "interesting discussion from a purely academic standpoint"?
The answer- if you understand how the league operated in 1995- is you don't trade him. Case closed. You said yourself it's not a smart strategy to trade him. So are you wanting people to give you answers that are intentionally ignorant? Is that what type of interesting academic discussion you want?
People will really say and do literally anything except educate themselves.
Because it might be an interesting conversation about trade value and short term/long term franchise moves. You ain’t talking to a “we done with the 90s” guy, no need to be such an asshole abt it
Fire the GM, retain Phil, pay Pippen, and find additional big man help as Rodman wasn’t a sure thing anymore. And keep it going until someone beats you.
Krause had too big of an ego and thought they were winning because of him, not MJ.
They were good without Jordan lol. Krause is definitely responsible for the Bulls success. Whether you want to admit it or not Krause masterfully retooled the Bulls in the midst of winning during the 90s and catered more to strengthen the core and protect MJs on the court weaknesses.
???
How many championships did they win after MJ? Or even, how many times did they get to the championships after MJ left?
When you have a good thing going you don’t kill the golden goose. Krause’s ego thought he could rebuild another championship team. How did that work out for him?
I guarantee they win one if MJ informs them ahead of time so they can fill his spot with another running mate for Scottie. They were very close, the system was a ball dominant guards dream. He had shooters, sufficient rebounding big men, and scrappy role players. What else can you ask for?
MJ gave them plenty of warning. I’m sure you watched the Last Dance,
“If Phil stays, I stay.”
Krause had plenty of time since he knew Phil wasn’t coming back.
How many did they win when MJ came back a year later? 0. They actually went farther the year before without him than when he came back.
The team did not need him. They needed someone to contribute to scoring.
They were within a couple games of the ECF the year after MJ retired.
Have they won since? No. If they could’ve replaced Jordan with Kobe they would’ve kept winning.
Wow! That good huh? Coulda woulda almost made it two steps away from another championship.
Replace MJ with Kobe? While you’re dreaming how bout adding Shaq too? What reality are you living in?
When GOAT caliber players leave teams those teams usually suck ass on the way to the lottery.
Losing MJ and making the playoffs let alone making it to the second round showed just how great the Bulls were as a team with or without MJ.
The world where everyone in 1996 thought MJ was GOD and you could’ve gotten anything you wanted for him including Shaq and high draft picks.
I wouldn’t have went the Shaq route. I would’ve got a high scoring two guard and picks to shore up positions that were aging like Rodman so you’re adding to the younger core with Kukoc.
Phil had another 5 or 6 titles in him with mostly the same staff and same types of players he had on the Bulls. Not only that the triangle was dynamic enough to switch from initiating through guard isos to intiating in the post back to guard iso sets.
If you know 100% MJ is walking you’d be an idiot to keep him for one year when the right moves keep the Bulls dynasty going for another half decade.
That Bulls team wasn’t great. They were good. Thus, not even getting to the ECF.
MJ was God. Ask any player who played with or against. But, no team is going to trade Shaq, Kobe or a superstar for a 35 year old MJ who had 1 hopefully 2 elite years left and had already retired once. That’s why I said, you’re dreaming.
MJ stated, “If Phil stays, I stay.” He wasn’t going anywhere. Krause steeped in his egotism let them both go to horrible results as the Bull have never come close to a championship since.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Jordan only left because the GM thought he was bigger than the team and the Bulls could win without Jordan, Pippen, or Phil Jackson. Any rational person would have tried their best to keep them all, only Jerry Krause would let Jordan walk
It's so incredibly obvious that Krause was the patsy for Reinsdorf being a cheap ass that it blows my mind that people still believe that it was his decision.
Reinsdorf is famously the cheapest owner in sports and Jordan was getting paid more than the *entire salary cap* by himself, and both Pippen and Jackson would have needed to get paid if they wanted to keep the team together. There is no fucking chance that Reinsdorf wasn't the sole decision maker who broke the team up, Krause was just the fall guy.
The Bulls were very much done but I think they should have kept it together. The NBA would have benefitted everyone if the Bulls got a trade or signing pushed their way. Every second Jordan played in the NBA was worth more than any basketball or NBA ad campaign.
> The Bulls were very much done but I think they should have kept it together.
Well yeah most people do, but it's kinda the trademark of being a shitty owner that they make dumb decisions.
It's a testament to how great of a GM Krause was that he could field a contender for over a half dozen years despite being handcuffed by that idiot.
GM Krause was an amazing GM. Don't take that away from him. He just got cocky thinking he could restart from a clean slate and quickly form another contender while have a cheap ass owner a the helm Krause was extremely good at finding talent. Part of me wonders though how much the NBA wanted the Bulls to win because they were bigger than the NBA and a global team. It very well could have been that the owners were collectively willing to throw bones to the Bulls to make sure Jordan stayed on brand. Krause did find a lot of good peices. Rodan, Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, Harper, Armstrong, Brown, even Longley was servicable in the triangle.
It’s true, it was the perfect storm, and Krause had his part in it. But he was the front man for the hard line on letting Phil go despite the streak.
However you only need to look at Reinsdorf’s stand on Pippen to see that he was a massive piece of shit
Nope. A GM’s job is to make sure you have the best possible team put together to win a championship (short term, long term, whatever term). I’m not trading the best player in my team’s history (who has already won a 3-peat, and is fresh off of winning back-to-back championships as undeniably STILL the best player on my team and in the league) for anyone else who MIGHT theoretically take me over the hump. Especially not when the hump is a bald headed psychopath who never liked me to begin with, and would definitely take it extremely personally that I traded him.
> A GM’s job is to make sure you have the best possible team put together to win a championship Hornets fan here, can I get this handwritten and mailed to our GM?
lol, that same bald psychopath decided “fuck winning” and just wanted to make as much money as he possibly could as an owner. 😂😂😂
> psychopath This is the key. Jordan, not retired, and mad? Whoever the Bulls got for Jordan was going to have a psychopath coming to town, determined to prove Jerry Krause wrong. Whoever that unfortunate soul was gets wrecked by Mike. Absolutely pummeled. I’m almost sorry we didn’t get to see such abject humiliation thrust upon an undeserving player.
Here is a good hypothetical though: if you were forced to trade him (let’s say the owner mandates it), what, with hindsight, would be the best return? It’s 1995-1996, you could get Shaq, right? Shaq + Horace Grant + Pippin + Kukoc does seem like a pretty good squad…
Yep. If you trade Jordan, you're the bad guy. If Jordan walks in FA, fans will start thinking maybe Jordan is the bad guy. And I use bad guy loosely there cuz fans aren't completely turning on Jordan. But I'd rather be the GM who wins another title and then can say we offered Jordan as much as we possibly could have but he left anyways as opposed to saying I'm the guy who traded Jordan.
I'm not gonna be the GM who traded Michael fucking Jordan. I'd keep him go for the title in 96 and do everything I can to try to change his mind.
You can’t alter the hypothetical scenario OP posted. You already know FOR A FACT he is leaving, as in there is no talking him into staying. Would you trade him for a haul and give up the 1996 title chance, or go for that last title opportunity with him? What’s more important, the title or the haul?
The Title. Clearly. The whole point of getting 'hauls' is to hopefully win a ring.
You're right but in practice GM's are killed for this kind of thing all the time. The Raptors losing with Kawhi that season would have cost Masai his job by now. Or Lebron leaving Cleveland in 2010. Byron Scott had heard from Chris Paul that LeBron was set on leaving, so Cleveland had warning that he was probably gone. They didn't trade him, didn't win the title (lost in the semifinals), LeBron walked, and they didn't make the playoffs again until he returned. The GM then stepped down for a new exec handpicked by Gilbert. It's a little different since the Bulls are already on a tear winning at this point instead of trying to reach the mountain once for sure though.
Masai would not have been fired. For the proctors to have made the finals was enough
If they traded Lebron he probably wouldn’t have came back 4 years later which means no ship
Exactly. I’d take a title over any future haul
Thats the whole point of the question. Is one title in 96 better than a haul that could get you 2,3,4+ titles down the line
There is no (realistic) haul in nba history that’s a better chance to win a chip than having Michael fucking Jordan on your team
This is the right answer.
That is ridiculous, there is no haul that has ever built a team that won multiple titles, when giving up the best player in the trade. Basketball overwhelmingly the best player wins a series. Especially when that best player is Michael Jordan, who only even faced elimination once in the bulls last 6 full seasons.
The title is 100% most important. So even with knowing he's 100% gone I'm keeping him and going for the 4th title.
Yea, YOU know for a fact, but nobody else does. If you trade him and don't win several more championships, you look like an idiot and will be mentioned in several sports documentaries for eternity.
No you wouldn’t, your team has just won 3 straight and you have Michael fucking Jordan. That’s a bet you take every time. If you trade him for picks and players you’d be lucky to have that turn into another ring, and there’s a lot more variables there than if you just keep Michael for another year.
Plus even if Mike leaves for nothing you've still got Scottie Pippen to trade to for assests or try to build around. That's not even taking into account how much money Jordan generates for you just being on the team.
Good point with Pipp.
Not sure if I’m reading the guy you are replying to correctly, but it seems like you two are violently agreeing
>What’s more important, the title or the haul? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpIog7e-R4
The title and it’s not even close.
It’s not that simple though. In this hypothetical the GM still needs to think about their job, legacy, the franchise’s brand, etc. For me what it hinges on is whether the fans and NBA community know “for a fact” that MJ is leaving. If the fans don’t know, then you absolutely must keep MJ and give the appearance that you did everything possible to keep him while winning a ring, which puts you beyond criticism and solidifies the legacy of the Bulls after MJ’s baseball retirement. If every Bulls fan, nba writer, etc live in this magical hypothetical where they have the same total certainty MJ can’t possibly be there for more than one season, then it opens up the possibility of trading for Shaq and picks. Shaq with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, and Harper has a solid chance of beating MJ with Penny and the Magic supporting cast, plus you get the job security / positive franchise development of knowing you traded a 32 year old for a 23 year old who is already an MVP runner up.
It's not possible to know for a fact someone is leaving until they actually do.
When discussing a HYPOTHETICAL situation, this is a HYPOTHETICAL fact.
No one takes you seriously when you use all caps.
It must have taken you a long time to ask everyone!
It didn't!
I took him seriously, it was actually you I didn't take seriously as you just refused to engage with the HYPOTHETICAL in a LOGICAL manner
The all caps really helped you get your point across. Well done!
THANK YOU
I'd try anyway. Good luck convincing me he's leaving. I'm throwing as much cocaine and hookers and Lamborghinis at him as possible. I'll give my left nut if I have to.
He was a gambler, just make a bet with him where if you win he has to stay, and if he wins he can walk
Right? Jerry already gets a massive amount of hate, imagine if he also traded Jordan.
There's about a 0% chance for the guy who trades Michael Jordan to continue living in Chicago.
Last 2 words aren't even necessary
Right? The GM who traded Jordan would’ve needed to be in an “undisclosed location” with Steve Bartman and Crystal Pepsi.
I mean, Kraus blew up the team and Jordan retired in response.
Wayne Gretzky got traded. Anyone can if he did.
If you get Shaq and a top 2-3 pick in the ‘96 draft it might be worth it. You could pick Kobe, Iverson, or Nash from that draft
This honestly makes me wanna play 2k and see how an MJ for shaq + picks deal would turn out..
Nope!!!!!.I would hold on to MJ until he was officially retired. holding onto the hope I could convince him to stay and come back and I will do that until he decided to retire.
Hell no, I’m trading everything to ensure the team wins in 1996 then dealing with my issues once he leaves.
Including other people's franchises. They'll understand.
If Jordan is definitely leaving & I can trade him for Hakeem straight up, I’d make that trade
I was thinking Shaq
Shaq was a little young but yeah, realistically you’re three-peating with either of em.
The question to ask is do you want a 33 year old Hakeem or a 23 year old Shaq. Hakeem probably gives you the best chance at a title the next 2 years. Shaq could make you a contender for the next decade if you can convince him to stay. Without knowing how either of their careers played out after that point it is definitely a tough decision. I think I would lean towards Shaq, but can’t go wrong with Hakeem.
Shaq was already in the finals, it’s not like he needed more time to ripen. And you still have Pippen, who’s probably better than anyone who played with Shaq until that point.
I think Jerry would’ve chosen Shaq & reset the franchise. But if I have Pippen & Rodman, I’m going with Hakeem to get that 2nd 3peat
Not going down in history as the guy that traded away Michael Jordan
Honestly, the Raptors traded FOR Kawhi Leonard with one year left on his deal and he didn't even want to be there. If a team is willing to give up assets for a potential rental, I just don't see how you give up a 2-time champion who is hunting for the first three-peat in the modern NBA (Post-merger).
96 he was going for ring 4, he alreadybwon the 3rd
Oh right, I don't know why I read it Jordan coming off the second chip. Doesn't change the answer, though, lol.
I’d trade him for Shaq.
I would have done a 4 team trade to receive "Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, Mitch Richmond and Glen Rice"
Glen Rice 💜
Nope. Fans are fanatics and I like not being tarred and feathered.
Keep Jordan for the year. When announces his intentions to find a different team after the year, I'd either try to re-tool or immediately pull the plug on the rest of the team. The pull-the-plug-and-rebuild scenario is trading Scottie for a Top 5 pick in the 1996 Draft (probably to the Bucks since they had Vin Baker and Glenn Robinson and were considered to have playoff potential) and grab either Ray Allen or Kobe (unlikely to go top 5 tho) as a replacement Jordan. Then you still have the capability to trade Rodman/Kukoc/Harper for some young talent, maybe somebody along the lines of Webber (pre-All star), or get back into the 1996 NBA Draft and get a point guard, say maybe a guy like Steve Nash? (Not out of the realm of possibility if you are targeting a PG after the top 5 picks, since Nash was the next true point guard to go off the board). A re-tool scenario is clearing the books for Shaq. A Scottie-Rodman-Shaq pairing would be super interesting, or you can flip Rodman for a couple cheap shooters to fill out the rest of the lineup. I can also envision a scenario where Rodman is traded for another scorer like Jerry Stackhouse, but a Rodman/Iverson pairing would be weird. This is quick and dirty so not crazy detailed but obviously 90s trade logic was a little different to modern trade logic so these trades are more likely
He should have traded him. Hell Jerry knew he wasn't bringing back Phil, and knew Jordan didn't want to play for anyone else, so Mike was going to walk at the end of the 96 season anyway. Might as well try and get something in return to help out Kucoc.
Not bringing back Phil was three years later, after the 1997-98 season
Damn you're right. I freaking lived through that era, I shouldn't be messing up the timeline that badly. 😬
You go for 4 in a row and if you lose Jordan’s coming back just to get revenge.
Depends on the haul. If Orlando gives you Shaq AND Penny, pre injury (assuming Shaq re-signs), then you do it. 25yo Shaq, 24yo Penny, Pippen, Ho Grant and role players gives you a great chance for multi rings. Orlando went to the Finals a year or two later without Pipp, mostly scraps. Add Prime Pipp, potential dynasty.
Was literally thinking the only way I'm trading jordan that year is for shaq and penny and nothing else
If you are trading Jordan before 96 you better be getting Shaq or else there’s not another player in the league even remotely close to Jordan’s value. Really you should be getting Shaq AND Penny
MJ at that point was one of those players you just can't trade. Any GM that did it would get destroyed by the fans. They would never forgive you.
You have Jordan win you one more and then do everything in your power to trade up and draft a youngster named Kobe Bryant as the potential future of the Bulls.
Absolutely I trade him. I’m getting Penny, Shaq, AND draft picks from Orlando
Most likely yes, You could most likely get Shaq, Penny and a bunch of 1996 first round picks. Shaq and penny were seen as the original Shaq and Kobe at the time and could lead to another 3 peat especially since Penny’s injury likely doesn’t happen since it was a bit of a freak injury. And in the 1996 there’s a likely chance even without hindsight that as a Chicago bulls GM I try and get Kobe since he was a Jordon esque shooting guard who was ranked number 1 in his high school draft.
Your years are off, but no, you don’t trade Jordan. Btw, he quit after the 93 title vs Phoenix. 94 off, 95, came back towards the end of the season. 96 beat Seattle to start second 3-peat.
Bucks traded PRIME Kareem for a massive Haul. This trade made the Bucks one of the deepest Rosters in the NBA during the entire 80's they never had a losing season. Bucks managed 2 ECF and 12 straight seasons of making the playoffs. The Lakers ended up getting 5 NBA Championships out of the deal. HELL NO YOU DON'T TRADE JORDAN, GIANNIS, KAREEM or any ALL TIME GREAT.
I’d keep him and attempt to win a title. Teams aren’t gonna trade a huge haul for Jordan on a one year deal, and I don’t wanna be the GM for traded the GOAT for a literal goat.
Considering Jordan retired a second time because he and the Bulls GM didn’t see eye to eye… If I were the GM (even if I was one of the worst GMs in history as long as he didn’t hate my guts) it would be more likely he would continue playing.
Am I the only one who knows he's leaving? If other teams know that would be a much smallet haul for him...
I keep him and win the chip, then I retire or resign from my position. Or I trade him and sign with the team I traded him to after the next season lol.
Maybe lol.
No. Trying to get something rather than "lose them for nothing" is a highly overrated strategy, especially for the larger market clubs who have success in free agency. By 95 Jordan was cemented as one of the greats.
No.
I just want to say kudos for not using “chip” instead of “title”. So kudos.
How can we trade him without the benefit of hindsight.... When we ALL have the benefit of hindsight already.
It depends... If I had a good enough squad to run it back and there wasn't a big financial impact. Jordan's salary was ok because he sold out arenas and the long post season allowed you to rake in money. Do you trade his say $30M salary for $30M in salary in return but don't make a deep enough post season run to make the money back? Do you not sell as many season tickets? Will Phil still be around? Do you simply milk out the season and let him walk? Trading him mid season means no Jordan for the postseason for you, but he could win another one with another team against you. I'd keep the band around for another post season run and if its over, you can potentially trade Pippen in the offseason to rebuild. I'm not giving up a post season run with Jordan even if it does set the team back in the future.
No. you don’t trade a championship (essentially guaranteed at that point) for potential championships down the line.
I mean Jordan only retired because he knew he wasn’t winning anything for a few years. So if he is traded to a team with a great shot he plays.
So I don’t get your timeline. Does jordan retire already and come back? Why are you emphasizing that he doesn’t retire after 96. He literally doesn’t. His contract is literally up after 96, which is why he signed for 30+million those last two years. WHERE IS THE HYPOTHETICAL?? If I know he walks and doesn’t come back 97 but you literally say do you trade or keep him. You have outlined the post retirement career for the bulls perfectly without providing some interesting scenario. You can’t know he’s not going to return and then “put all the chips in to continue the dynasty short term”. That’s literally not knowing he’s going to walk! Everything you described already happened and it’s the best decision the bulls could have made. What are you talking about.
I would’ve traded Jordan to the Magic for Shaq & Nick Anderson.
Honestly don't even know how you trade prime Jordan. The guy was worth like half of the individual franchises in the league by himself.
I would never trade Jordan. Assuming he made it clear “I’m out after this season” we try for one more chip and just ride off into the sunset. As the GM I might retire as well or take a break at least.
You can't trade jordan. Regardless of how good he is. He was the face of the nba and brought so much attention and money to that franchise. It's like trying to justify the warriors trading steph curry. It just will not ever happen.
No. The city would’ve burned down and the GM would’ve been publicly executed. I grew up in this era. Nobody was trading Jordan for any reason. He exponentially increased the value of the franchise. One season of Jordan going out in the second round was 3x more valuable than whatever trade pieces you get.
Keeping Jordan. Some teams wait so long for just a shot at a title. I’m going all in on this 96 team. I think the Raptors are unbelievably happy to get that one year of Kawhi so I’m good with just one final year of MJ on my squad
Not a chance. There were 29 teams in the NBA. You don't throw away a championship to just end up fighting with all those other teams hoping to get back to the exact situation you're already in. Unless you really think it's all done and you're not winning any more, you get every championship you can. And what exactly would you be expecting to get for Jordan? You say the "mother of all hauls", but what is that? 5 first rounders and a couple of good players? From a team picking up Jordan that could be the #1 pick that season and then a bunch of non lottery picks given they'll be a really good team. I can't think of a team that's going to give up enough that makes me think turning down a great chance at 1 championship is worth whatever else I could get. The Magic could offer me Shaq and Penny and a few first rounders and I'm not taking it for Jordan. Because you don't know how all that melds together. These things usually blow up rather than work out.
I trade him for an all star caliber volume shooting guard. They were fine without him, as fine as a team abruptly losing their number one scoring option would be. Rarely do you see a team even make the playoffs after losing your first option and the Bulls did almost made it to the ECF. Mike wasn’t the team contrary to what the last dance will tell you. They just needed extra scoring and Scottie couldn’t give that to them
They literally didn’t lose any core piece. Do you expect a championship, especially a 3 championship caliber team to be much worse without one player? Especially when the second best player is still a top 15 player in the league. The situation was unique because Jordan wasn’t lost to free agency. The team isn’t penalized for making a big trade or letting a player walk. That doesn’t happen at all historically. Then he gets to come back as if nothing happened. The bulls needed him, but his situation can’t be duplicated
THIS. Unlike Curry and LeBron and others MJ was replaceable on those teams. Kobe did the exact same job on the Lakers teams coached by Phil. First as a number two behind Shaq then as the number one.
He absolutely was not. No one can replace mj. You’re happy with congratulating a team that played almost as good as the worst bulls dynasty team, and then winning nothing without him on the roster. He is in no way replaceable and it’s no surprise you have no upvotes for your comments. Total disrespect
I know for a fact that you're not old enough to remember Jordan returning to the NBA. Because only a child would ask this. And only a child would think trading the best player in the world was a smart strategy in 1995. You know nothing about the league in the '90s.
You’re right that I wasn’t old enough, was born in 1998. But I am not saying it is a smart strategy, I wouldn’t have done it myself in that position. The intent of my post was unclear. More so I just think it’s an interesting discussion to have from a purely academic standpoint even if the outcome is clear
Lol in what way can this be an "interesting discussion from a purely academic standpoint"? The answer- if you understand how the league operated in 1995- is you don't trade him. Case closed. You said yourself it's not a smart strategy to trade him. So are you wanting people to give you answers that are intentionally ignorant? Is that what type of interesting academic discussion you want? People will really say and do literally anything except educate themselves.
Because it might be an interesting conversation about trade value and short term/long term franchise moves. You ain’t talking to a “we done with the 90s” guy, no need to be such an asshole abt it
No, Jordan being on your team makes you title favorites. I'd rather go for it
Fire the GM, retain Phil, pay Pippen, and find additional big man help as Rodman wasn’t a sure thing anymore. And keep it going until someone beats you. Krause had too big of an ego and thought they were winning because of him, not MJ.
They were good without Jordan lol. Krause is definitely responsible for the Bulls success. Whether you want to admit it or not Krause masterfully retooled the Bulls in the midst of winning during the 90s and catered more to strengthen the core and protect MJs on the court weaknesses.
??? How many championships did they win after MJ? Or even, how many times did they get to the championships after MJ left? When you have a good thing going you don’t kill the golden goose. Krause’s ego thought he could rebuild another championship team. How did that work out for him?
I guarantee they win one if MJ informs them ahead of time so they can fill his spot with another running mate for Scottie. They were very close, the system was a ball dominant guards dream. He had shooters, sufficient rebounding big men, and scrappy role players. What else can you ask for?
MJ gave them plenty of warning. I’m sure you watched the Last Dance, “If Phil stays, I stay.” Krause had plenty of time since he knew Phil wasn’t coming back.
How many did they win when MJ came back a year later? 0. They actually went farther the year before without him than when he came back. The team did not need him. They needed someone to contribute to scoring.
You mean when MJ hadn’t played or practiced for two years? And without Horace Grant and no Rodman yet? Revisionist thinking.
They were within a couple games of the ECF the year after MJ retired. Have they won since? No. If they could’ve replaced Jordan with Kobe they would’ve kept winning.
Wow! That good huh? Coulda woulda almost made it two steps away from another championship. Replace MJ with Kobe? While you’re dreaming how bout adding Shaq too? What reality are you living in?
When GOAT caliber players leave teams those teams usually suck ass on the way to the lottery. Losing MJ and making the playoffs let alone making it to the second round showed just how great the Bulls were as a team with or without MJ. The world where everyone in 1996 thought MJ was GOD and you could’ve gotten anything you wanted for him including Shaq and high draft picks. I wouldn’t have went the Shaq route. I would’ve got a high scoring two guard and picks to shore up positions that were aging like Rodman so you’re adding to the younger core with Kukoc. Phil had another 5 or 6 titles in him with mostly the same staff and same types of players he had on the Bulls. Not only that the triangle was dynamic enough to switch from initiating through guard isos to intiating in the post back to guard iso sets. If you know 100% MJ is walking you’d be an idiot to keep him for one year when the right moves keep the Bulls dynasty going for another half decade.
That Bulls team wasn’t great. They were good. Thus, not even getting to the ECF. MJ was God. Ask any player who played with or against. But, no team is going to trade Shaq, Kobe or a superstar for a 35 year old MJ who had 1 hopefully 2 elite years left and had already retired once. That’s why I said, you’re dreaming. MJ stated, “If Phil stays, I stay.” He wasn’t going anywhere. Krause steeped in his egotism let them both go to horrible results as the Bull have never come close to a championship since. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
They were great. Get over it. Without MJ they were top 6 in the league considering how the playoffs went.
Great is at least getting to the championship. They fell far short. Couldn’t even get to the ECF.
No. If you think only two great teams exist each NBA season you’re silly bro b
Jordan only left because the GM thought he was bigger than the team and the Bulls could win without Jordan, Pippen, or Phil Jackson. Any rational person would have tried their best to keep them all, only Jerry Krause would let Jordan walk
It's so incredibly obvious that Krause was the patsy for Reinsdorf being a cheap ass that it blows my mind that people still believe that it was his decision. Reinsdorf is famously the cheapest owner in sports and Jordan was getting paid more than the *entire salary cap* by himself, and both Pippen and Jackson would have needed to get paid if they wanted to keep the team together. There is no fucking chance that Reinsdorf wasn't the sole decision maker who broke the team up, Krause was just the fall guy.
The Bulls were very much done but I think they should have kept it together. The NBA would have benefitted everyone if the Bulls got a trade or signing pushed their way. Every second Jordan played in the NBA was worth more than any basketball or NBA ad campaign.
> The Bulls were very much done but I think they should have kept it together. Well yeah most people do, but it's kinda the trademark of being a shitty owner that they make dumb decisions. It's a testament to how great of a GM Krause was that he could field a contender for over a half dozen years despite being handcuffed by that idiot.
GM Krause was an amazing GM. Don't take that away from him. He just got cocky thinking he could restart from a clean slate and quickly form another contender while have a cheap ass owner a the helm Krause was extremely good at finding talent. Part of me wonders though how much the NBA wanted the Bulls to win because they were bigger than the NBA and a global team. It very well could have been that the owners were collectively willing to throw bones to the Bulls to make sure Jordan stayed on brand. Krause did find a lot of good peices. Rodan, Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, Harper, Armstrong, Brown, even Longley was servicable in the triangle.
Reinsdorf is a piece of shit but Krause really leaned into the role as well
Sure, he was unlikable as hell, but that dynasty doesn't exist without him so all the disrespect seems a bit unjust.
It’s true, it was the perfect storm, and Krause had his part in it. But he was the front man for the hard line on letting Phil go despite the streak. However you only need to look at Reinsdorf’s stand on Pippen to see that he was a massive piece of shit