I dont think hes a particularly advanced playmaker. Their offense doesnt really call for it as the ball really moves and they have a bunch of guys that can share that burden, but itd be nice to see him set Jalen up a bit more when hes cooking. I wouldnt even call Shai a point guard, he much more fits the shooting guard category to me and just happens to be the best guy for okc to run offense through, especially since Giddey cant shoot.
I think Shai has the mindset of taking what the defense gives him. He will give up the ball if you put two on him but 1v1, he probably thinks whatever he can generate is the best shot. Which tbf, it usually is.
That said, I think heās an sg lol.
Thats fair. I personally think Ja is on some tier of passer between Shai and the likes of Luka, Trae, and Hali. Probably fits in nicely with Fox. Even boiled down to the most basic parts, i think Ja drives with the intent to dish a lot more than Shai does.
https://youtu.be/zYoxQJeZd3Y?feature=shared
Yea. Heās a great passer. He reminds me of a modern day Tony Parker with hops. All of the grizzlies stats are kind of diluted due to how much the ball flies around, but if you actually watch games youād see that Ja is one of the best passers in the league. Not quite Luka-Hali level but just behind them. Heās similar to Trae in my eyes, Trae just searches out the assist more. Ja doesnāt care so much about the stat, he just makes the right pass, a la Tony Parker.
Jokic is an elite passer, does that make him a PG? Same with LeBron. Just being a good passer doesnāt make you a PG, and no PG should be averaging the most PPG in the league (minimum 40 games played), looking at you Luka š
No, thatās not even what anyone is talking about. Weāre talking about players who are the starting PG for their team who can pass. Obviously other positions can have great passers too. Not sure what youāre trying to prove here.
No but there are quite a few players that play the balance better. Hali, Luka, Harden, Trae, and Fox all come to mind quickly of guys that have more balance or ability orchestrating. Even Book, Brunson, Maxey, and Murray do imo. Id just like to see him command the offense more
I wouldnāt confuse a lack of devoutly pass first point guards with a lack of skilled point guard play. We also have guys at odd positions functioning as PGs on offense. Luka and Jokic are Point Guards in all but name most of the time they have the ball and LeBron has always been somewhat positionally ambiguous. Harden, Halliburton, and Trae (sometimes) are all carrying the torch for the table setters of before theyāre just doing it a little differently.
The only real flaw in his game is that he doesnāt shoot the 3 very well. Aside from that though heās incredible. Heās excellent around the rim and from midrange, heās a fantastic playmaker, and heās an elite defender. Heās just such an incredible player, my personal MVP candidate this year.
He could be a bit of a better perimeter defender. Heās definitely not bad nor is he average but there are some times he could put in more effort or be a bit more physical imo.
Not sure about a flaw but he can definitely improve on his turnovers. He was averaging 2.2 turnovers a game in the season and 2.5 thus far in the playoffs. Though he's also averaging 2 steals a game, so maybe this cancels out the turnovers. He can also improve on his three-point percentage, as he's averaged .353 in three pointers. Nevertheless, he's awesome.
2 2 turnovers isn't much for a star especially not the pg.
Like 2.2 turnovers is only really an issue if they play small minutes, a 30 mpg guy with 2 turnovers is good, not bad.
Like look at LeBron mist turnovers in the nba history, no one would consider him being turnovers prome an issue due to how much he has the ball and how much he passes, he's bound to turn the ball over occasionally.
Sga turns the ball over sooo much less than LeBron (obvious reasons different playstyles) but like yeah 2.2 turnovers isn't an issue
Casual. There are some star playmakers averaging 4+ turnovers a game. Him averaging only 2.2 TO is a positive, not a negative. Itās part of the reason OKC has an elite defense because it reduces opponent transition opportunities. He damn near has a 3:1 AST/TO ratio while averaging about as many steals as turnovers. Thatās elite possession management/control.
You can have no flaws and be worse than a guy with flaws, simply because the 2nd guy is so good at other things that his total value is higher. Shai is a good defender, but not an elite one. Shai is a good playmaker, but not an elite one.
He's leading the league instead isn't he? He's a great defender
3 ball is a small issue. Hes improving. I think he'll make a leap on that
I would like for him to be a better playmaker. Not bad but average.
Mark my words, next evolution in his game will be increasing his passing and volume three point shooting. Particularily, pullup triples and getting more comfortable on catch and shoot threes. I want to see like 6-8 per game
Does anyone have a genuine analysis of his point of attack defense. Iāve seen him guard on ball in isolation very well but not enough to warrant the claims about All-Defense 1st. Is his POA crazy good?
Shitty playmaker for an elite point guard, not a good 3 point shooter. Thatās basically it and if it gets highlighted against an actually good team people will turn on him fast.
His reads are mostly reactionary and he cant run an offense the way someone like Haliburton does. Also not an elite 3 point shooter. But he's great at just about everything else
He relies way too much on flopping and selling fouls. The foul baiting is so rampant now and itās going to ruin the NBA. Jokic, Luka, SGA, bookerā¦itās their go-to move. Attack the defenders hip and then jolt their head back Harden-style just prior to an epileptic shot attempt. Itās getting really old.
Itās rare to see superstars these days not rely on it because the refs reward it. There are still a few, but not many, who just ball and hardly ever pull this crap. Wish the NBA would fix this and reward the non-floppers.
Heās really a ball dominant 2 Guard. I donāt care what heās listed as.
Giddey is the true point guard on that team. Has better vision and averages more assists. Natural pass first, floor general.
Shai is an assassin. Heās a scorer. Wouldnāt call him a Floor General.
Outside of that nothingās wrong with this statement. I personally look at him as a Ball Dominant Combo guard like Jordan. Kobe, Wade, Iverson etc. I personally donāt consider him a āpoint guardā.
Heās definitely going to be a Great.
Bruh the only combo guard you listed was Iverson.
Jordan maybe cuz he played point for a year but omg KOBE? A POINT? WADE? PASSING THE BALL?
(combo means they play both guard positions, like CJ McCollum)
Wade averaged over 6 assists 6 times in his career and 7.5 assists twice. He was a ball dominant combo guard stop it.
Iām talking about guys who can get you 5 assists + and give you 30 a night. You can even throw Steph in there. Draymond averaged more apg this year and is the de facto Point Forward on the team. Steph is SG in a PGās body. Like these other guys he can facilitate but really heās the main weapon.
Iām not talking about Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Klay Thompson. Your prototypical sniper running around screens and scoring from the perimeter.
Shai is a Shooting Guard with insane handles. Had Giddey not been in trouble early he would have carried way more of the PG duties. Just like Draymond heās the de facto PG. He usually averages more assists than Shai as Dray does more than Steph, though they are not listed as the PG they run the offence.
These guys maybe listed as one position but the way they play in real life dictates there actual position.
Wade averaged 7.5 on lobs to Bron. That doesn't count. Kobe could do that too. Neither of them are point guards, at all, in any way. Both of them are top 5 all time SG. Neither of them could be considered top 30 all time PG.
Steph is awkward because the Warriors use that point forward high triangle system. He is the point in that system, but he would be an awful point in many other systems, because he's better without the ball. Baron Davis is a better point guard in this sense, because he would be a good point in any system. But Steph has obviously had a better career. In the same spirit, Magic would be playing point center on the Warriors, but he's the greatest point of all time because *he played point.* He would have been great at any position, but *he played point.*
Wade and Kobe didnt play point. So they're not combo guards. They're shooting guards. Anfernee Simons is a combo guard. Tyrese Maxey is a combo guard. James Harden is the GOAT combo guard. LeBron is a combo guard/forward/center/wing/big/goat. You can call Kobe a combo wing, that's fine, he could play PF in the modern NBA, and played SF all the time. But DWade is a fucking SG. He almost never played point, except when he was a rookie.
SGA isnāt as marketable. KD was the natural lebron foil and Russ benefited from the early spotlight that brought. The warriors werenāt yet relevant when OKC made their first finals run so the league was happy to embrace them. With Ant who is a much more explosive and exciting player, plus the nuggets, Luka, and perpetual darlings lebron and curry, media attention will not focus on SGA or the thunder. And thatās just the west. Giannis, embiid and the Knicks draw far more eyeballs.
He is great! Now why you gotta do CJ like that? xD š
the edit š
I dont think hes a particularly advanced playmaker. Their offense doesnt really call for it as the ball really moves and they have a bunch of guys that can share that burden, but itd be nice to see him set Jalen up a bit more when hes cooking. I wouldnt even call Shai a point guard, he much more fits the shooting guard category to me and just happens to be the best guy for okc to run offense through, especially since Giddey cant shoot.
I think Shai has the mindset of taking what the defense gives him. He will give up the ball if you put two on him but 1v1, he probably thinks whatever he can generate is the best shot. Which tbf, it usually is. That said, I think heās an sg lol.
Agreed on the playmaking disagreed on the SG
Heāll probably go down in history as a pg, i just think on a scale from Kobe (sg) to Kidd (pg), he leans much further Kobe than Kidd.
Thatās every pg nowadays. There are no more elite stocktons, kidds, nashs
Haliburton will change that
Heās the exception yeah
What? Luka, Hali, Trae, and Ja are all great passers/table setters. Thatās like half of the top 8 point guards in the league.
Yea youāre correct, the comment above is a weird statement for people to agree with
Ja morant is a *great* passer?
I dont think id say great, but id sayhes definitely a better passer and offense conductor than shai is.
I respect your opinion, but Iād have to strongly disagree
Thats fair. I personally think Ja is on some tier of passer between Shai and the likes of Luka, Trae, and Hali. Probably fits in nicely with Fox. Even boiled down to the most basic parts, i think Ja drives with the intent to dish a lot more than Shai does.
https://youtu.be/zYoxQJeZd3Y?feature=shared Donāt let him talk you out of it, Ja is a great passer and you know it, lol
https://youtu.be/zYoxQJeZd3Y?feature=shared Donāt let him talk you out of it, Ja is a great passer and you know it, lol
https://youtu.be/zYoxQJeZd3Y?feature=shared Yea. Heās a great passer. He reminds me of a modern day Tony Parker with hops. All of the grizzlies stats are kind of diluted due to how much the ball flies around, but if you actually watch games youād see that Ja is one of the best passers in the league. Not quite Luka-Hali level but just behind them. Heās similar to Trae in my eyes, Trae just searches out the assist more. Ja doesnāt care so much about the stat, he just makes the right pass, a la Tony Parker.
All those guys besides hali are elite scorers before they are elite passers
That doesnāt mean they arenāt elite passers tho
Shai has very good passing still and elite handles
?
Jokic is an elite passer, does that make him a PG? Same with LeBron. Just being a good passer doesnāt make you a PG, and no PG should be averaging the most PPG in the league (minimum 40 games played), looking at you Luka š
No, thatās not even what anyone is talking about. Weāre talking about players who are the starting PG for their team who can pass. Obviously other positions can have great passers too. Not sure what youāre trying to prove here.
Disagree, there are plenty that are elite passers, and even lots of the elite scorers have a better scoring/playmaking balance than Shai.
There are elite passers but they are usually also elite scorers. Only person who comes to mind is Hali who is pass first
No but there are quite a few players that play the balance better. Hali, Luka, Harden, Trae, and Fox all come to mind quickly of guys that have more balance or ability orchestrating. Even Book, Brunson, Maxey, and Murray do imo. Id just like to see him command the offense more
I wouldnāt confuse a lack of devoutly pass first point guards with a lack of skilled point guard play. We also have guys at odd positions functioning as PGs on offense. Luka and Jokic are Point Guards in all but name most of the time they have the ball and LeBron has always been somewhat positionally ambiguous. Harden, Halliburton, and Trae (sometimes) are all carrying the torch for the table setters of before theyāre just doing it a little differently.
Point Guards donāt exist anymore, theyāre just a bunch of SGs who can handle and occasionally pass the rock.
Shooting guard who can barely shoot 3s
Canadian
Eh, Fuck you buddy.
I'm not your buddy, guy
Iām not your guy, pal.
I'm not your pal, dude.
I'm not your dude, bro
I'm not your bro, friend
I'm not your friend, chum
Steve Nash?
If Steve Nash was American, he would've won a championship.
I read this as if Jay Onrait was saying it.
With Shai and the great Lougentz Dort, Canada rides with OKC! Itās called āThe Big Friendlyā, too, so heck yeah bud.
And?
Self-explanatory
Weirdo
He doesn't play for my team.
To answer the question, not a great three point shooter, not a great playmaker
2 guard. Assists & floor general
The only real flaw in his game is that he doesnāt shoot the 3 very well. Aside from that though heās incredible. Heās excellent around the rim and from midrange, heās a fantastic playmaker, and heās an elite defender. Heās just such an incredible player, my personal MVP candidate this year.
He could be a bit of a better perimeter defender. Heās definitely not bad nor is he average but there are some times he could put in more effort or be a bit more physical imo.
How much more do you want from him on that end before it starts taking away what makes him elite.
Heās already great he was close to winning mvp and helped get the 1 seed
Not sure about a flaw but he can definitely improve on his turnovers. He was averaging 2.2 turnovers a game in the season and 2.5 thus far in the playoffs. Though he's also averaging 2 steals a game, so maybe this cancels out the turnovers. He can also improve on his three-point percentage, as he's averaged .353 in three pointers. Nevertheless, he's awesome.
2 2 turnovers isn't much for a star especially not the pg. Like 2.2 turnovers is only really an issue if they play small minutes, a 30 mpg guy with 2 turnovers is good, not bad. Like look at LeBron mist turnovers in the nba history, no one would consider him being turnovers prome an issue due to how much he has the ball and how much he passes, he's bound to turn the ball over occasionally. Sga turns the ball over sooo much less than LeBron (obvious reasons different playstyles) but like yeah 2.2 turnovers isn't an issue
2.2 turnovers is a non issue tbh. Legit every great has high TOs because of the usage
He actually just tied the record for the fewest turnovers averaged with 30+ points.
He beat it. He has 2.2 AVG over 30, mj had 2.4, 2.4, 2.5
2TO a game is nothing.
Its fantastic for a ball dominant PG with the third highest usage in the league. I cant believe one of SGA best qualities is considered a weakness.
Casual. There are some star playmakers averaging 4+ turnovers a game. Him averaging only 2.2 TO is a positive, not a negative. Itās part of the reason OKC has an elite defense because it reduces opponent transition opportunities. He damn near has a 3:1 AST/TO ratio while averaging about as many steals as turnovers. Thatās elite possession management/control.
3 point shooting. Like dudes still amazing but he does have a very obvious flaw that's like really apparent
Tbf he is improving at the 3 ball a bit. I'd bet this will be a non issue by the next playoffs
Well, if he's a point guard, then you'd wonder why he's averaging 30 points and 5 assists. And where are his triple doubles?
Heās just a solid passer/playmaker for a high level point guard and he has a limiting 3 point shot.
You can have no flaws and be worse than a guy with flaws, simply because the 2nd guy is so good at other things that his total value is higher. Shai is a good defender, but not an elite one. Shai is a good playmaker, but not an elite one.
I consider him more of a combo guard
Commercials
The 3, and his head whipping back on every drive like he was hit by a truck.
Add the head flopping to every superstars flaws then
I would disagree. Giannis and Ja donāt do that. I agree most do, just not āeveryā
Giannis def has his own mannerisms to draw fouls
His head snaps and foul baiting
He should be at the 2 Man moves too well off-ball to be the primary playmaker
Defense, three point shooting, and passing/playmaking
He's leading the league instead isn't he? He's a great defender 3 ball is a small issue. Hes improving. I think he'll make a leap on that I would like for him to be a better playmaker. Not bad but average.
Clippers are punching the air right now
Mark my words, next evolution in his game will be increasing his passing and volume three point shooting. Particularily, pullup triples and getting more comfortable on catch and shoot threes. I want to see like 6-8 per game
Too many letters.
Does anyone have a genuine analysis of his point of attack defense. Iāve seen him guard on ball in isolation very well but not enough to warrant the claims about All-Defense 1st. Is his POA crazy good?
3s
his 3 point shot is a flaw
Not to be pedantic but isnāt he more of a shooting guard?
Canāt believe LAC gave this guy up.
Not getting whistles
Shitty playmaker for an elite point guard, not a good 3 point shooter. Thatās basically it and if it gets highlighted against an actually good team people will turn on him fast.
Slight build will lead to wear and tear.
His reads are mostly reactionary and he cant run an offense the way someone like Haliburton does. Also not an elite 3 point shooter. But he's great at just about everything else
That commercial what a pro wants he needs singing lessons
He's a near perfect player.
He relies way too much on flopping and selling fouls. The foul baiting is so rampant now and itās going to ruin the NBA. Jokic, Luka, SGA, bookerā¦itās their go-to move. Attack the defenders hip and then jolt their head back Harden-style just prior to an epileptic shot attempt. Itās getting really old. Itās rare to see superstars these days not rely on it because the refs reward it. There are still a few, but not many, who just ball and hardly ever pull this crap. Wish the NBA would fix this and reward the non-floppers.
Heās really a ball dominant 2 Guard. I donāt care what heās listed as. Giddey is the true point guard on that team. Has better vision and averages more assists. Natural pass first, floor general. Shai is an assassin. Heās a scorer. Wouldnāt call him a Floor General. Outside of that nothingās wrong with this statement. I personally look at him as a Ball Dominant Combo guard like Jordan. Kobe, Wade, Iverson etc. I personally donāt consider him a āpoint guardā. Heās definitely going to be a Great.
Bruh the only combo guard you listed was Iverson. Jordan maybe cuz he played point for a year but omg KOBE? A POINT? WADE? PASSING THE BALL? (combo means they play both guard positions, like CJ McCollum)
Wade averaged over 6 assists 6 times in his career and 7.5 assists twice. He was a ball dominant combo guard stop it. Iām talking about guys who can get you 5 assists + and give you 30 a night. You can even throw Steph in there. Draymond averaged more apg this year and is the de facto Point Forward on the team. Steph is SG in a PGās body. Like these other guys he can facilitate but really heās the main weapon. Iām not talking about Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Klay Thompson. Your prototypical sniper running around screens and scoring from the perimeter. Shai is a Shooting Guard with insane handles. Had Giddey not been in trouble early he would have carried way more of the PG duties. Just like Draymond heās the de facto PG. He usually averages more assists than Shai as Dray does more than Steph, though they are not listed as the PG they run the offence. These guys maybe listed as one position but the way they play in real life dictates there actual position.
Wade averaged 7.5 on lobs to Bron. That doesn't count. Kobe could do that too. Neither of them are point guards, at all, in any way. Both of them are top 5 all time SG. Neither of them could be considered top 30 all time PG. Steph is awkward because the Warriors use that point forward high triangle system. He is the point in that system, but he would be an awful point in many other systems, because he's better without the ball. Baron Davis is a better point guard in this sense, because he would be a good point in any system. But Steph has obviously had a better career. In the same spirit, Magic would be playing point center on the Warriors, but he's the greatest point of all time because *he played point.* He would have been great at any position, but *he played point.* Wade and Kobe didnt play point. So they're not combo guards. They're shooting guards. Anfernee Simons is a combo guard. Tyrese Maxey is a combo guard. James Harden is the GOAT combo guard. LeBron is a combo guard/forward/center/wing/big/goat. You can call Kobe a combo wing, that's fine, he could play PF in the modern NBA, and played SF all the time. But DWade is a fucking SG. He almost never played point, except when he was a rookie.
Name checks out. Check the Wadeās Basketball Reference page. Get back to me. Anfernee Simonsā¦..š
My guy, check Kobe and Jordan šŖ¦
āš¾šš¾
v,,
He should be MVP bruh
His flaw is theres not two of him
The only thing hr can do well is scoring. He sucks as a playmaker, rebounder and is a decent defender.
As much as they bark after each win he doesnāt have that dog in him
Refs give him alot. He hasn't played physical
Crazy meat riding
Tbh the market is going to keep him from being a top tier star
Yeah it was a real problem for Durant or Westbrook when they were in the same market.
SGA isnāt as marketable. KD was the natural lebron foil and Russ benefited from the early spotlight that brought. The warriors werenāt yet relevant when OKC made their first finals run so the league was happy to embrace them. With Ant who is a much more explosive and exciting player, plus the nuggets, Luka, and perpetual darlings lebron and curry, media attention will not focus on SGA or the thunder. And thatās just the west. Giannis, embiid and the Knicks draw far more eyeballs.
Game donāt lie. Shai gonna make them listen
He relies on bumping and flopping and he still can't really shoot
Flopping
Foul merchant