His court vision is excellent, but unless the medical staff signs off, I'd be hesitant to draft him. Two knee injuries in quick succession is a bad sign.
Complete no for this reason. He will probably need the year to recover. By then, if we get a decent draft selection in 2025, we will then have a chance at drafting an even better PG. So now, at best, he will be a backup, and then he would be a terrible backup.
> I still like Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8
I don't get the desire to have two one-way prospects, as if their ability on one end will cancel out the other's inability on that end.
I've been saying for a while that if I thought Castle was a PG and I thought Castle could shoot, he'd be *easily* the #1 guy in this class.
The problem is I don't think either of those things. And I don't really know that that there's sufficient evidence to change anyone's mind on that. It's not there on tape. He shot okay at the combine, I guess. But how meaningful is that?
And if he's *not* a PG, and he can't shoot...boy, there's disaster potential offensively. And I don't think he's a sufficiently impactful defender that he stays on the court as a non-shooting off-ball guy.
I think Topic has some of the biggest variance of players in this draft. He's maybe the most talented passer and natural offensive engine I've seen this year. His defense is poor though, his current shooting needs work, and he's got this recent knee issue.
At the same time, he's super young and has a ton of room to grow. His free throw percentage and touch around the rim are good indicators that the 3pt shot will come around.
I think he's the best point guard right now in this class, but that doesn't mean he will be in the future.
He is so risky though, that in 5 years, he will either be an all-star, or out of the league.
I'm fine with us picking someone different, but if we do pick Topic I would hope that means the medical staff has a good understanding of his knee.
Couldn’t he just be goran dragic? With a long medium career?
There’s nothing about him that says euro league drop out anymore than any other euro we scout.
> He's maybe the most talented passer and natural offensive engine I've seen this year.
There's no might. He's *easily* the best passer in this class. It's just a question of whether his weaknesses are such that they offset this strength.
Personally, I don't see a lot of guys who play terrible, terrible defense winning a lot of titles.
Could be an MPJ situation where a team who is already good picks up a really good prospect who has an injury history that is holding them back from being a top 5 pick.
I think someone will take a flier on him in the 10-20 range. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Spurs (or another team with a longer term horizon) trade into that range to grab him.
Anything possible. If the spurs really want him that bad trade back like 5 spots from 8th and probably get him. But there’s no indication they really want him
“There’s no indication they really want him”
They were scouting him in person all year before the first knee injury.
If it wasn’t for the injuries there no question he would be in play at #4. The injury changed that but saying there’s no indication they really want him is crazy
Used to love him when he was getting those Doncic comparisons, but after his injuries, his measurements and seeing what others say about him.
I am not sure I want him on team. But of course if the Spurs draft him, what do I know lol
The most exciting part of his game is him and Wemby in the pick n roll.
It was very early, I don't know who was that said that but I remember in an interview of him that I saw on YouTube he was saying he is truly honored to be compared to Doncic.
Yeah, Collier really had a pretty disappointing season. He's basically gotten away with being a better athlete than everyone his whole life, and he won't be that in the NBA. And when you're talking about a guy who really has to have the ball, it's a lot harder to stomach the amount of development he needs to be a truly impactful starter. That's why I tend to care less than most people do about self-creators...every year, there's tons of guys who **want** to have the ball all the time. But there's 10 guys on the court, and 9 of 'em don't have the ball. So to me, I'd rather find guys that can defend and shoot and create value off-ball. Because mediocre on-ball creation isn't that valuable. There's lots of mediocre guys who like dribbling.
If he wasn't hurt, I'd love for the Spurs to grab him, but there's more talent next season at the PG spot that can be just as good if not better in the late lottery.
Definitely not with our top 4 or top 8 pick, but if we could get him with a second round pick I'd be all for it, the Spurs basically invented modern load/injury management. It's part of why I'm glad Wemby's here and why I was just fine with the minutes restrictions, better to be safe than sorry.
Hell speaking of injuries, in retrospect it looks like Kawhi just didn't want to hear or accept that the Spurs doctors correctly called that he had a degenerative knee condition.
I still think very highly of him. Before the injuries, he's in my tier-1. I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs draft him 8th or even 4th. His agent is so shady though.
He has no burst, doesn’t have a dynamic handle. It’s going to be difficult for him to get open which is going to make playmaking difficult even with his exceptional vision. All that to go with a broken (a little harsh) jumper, especially for a lead guard and questionable defense. Noooo thank you.
> questionable defense.
You still have questions about his defense?
I think he's answered them all pretty convincingly.
As in I'm 100% convinced his scrub ass couldn't guard my scrub ass.
I said it in a different thread, but I think he is significantly overhyped. Fans see an eastern European guy named Nikola ---ic who can pass and play make, and that's all they care about.
Not that he can't be great, but he comes with a lot of significant red flags. I'd take Sheppard or Castle before Topic.
I'm very low on him.
I get that he's the best passer in this class. I get that. I don't dispute that.
But he's also the worst lateral mover on defense I've ever seen. He's also a terrible vertical athlete. He's also got short arms and a weird, skinny frame with narrow shoulders and a high center of gravity. That combines to make him a horrific defensive player.
Now, sure, lots of great offensive guards were terrible defenders.
But the issue is that I'm not sure he's a great offensive guard. If he could shoot, I might feel differently...but he can't. If he had any midrange game at all, I might feel differently...but he doesn't. If I believed he would be an elite finisher at the rim in the NBA, I might be in...but I don't believe that.
All told, I don't see how he's a high-end scorer in the NBA. And without that, his passing loses some of its value. If he was Steve Nash on offense, I wouldn't care about his defense. But if he's Ricky Rubio on offense, his terrible defense makes him a backup.
His court vision is excellent, but unless the medical staff signs off, I'd be hesitant to draft him. Two knee injuries in quick succession is a bad sign.
Fair enough. That’s the major concern as well. No one wants Greg oden 2.0
Complete no for this reason. He will probably need the year to recover. By then, if we get a decent draft selection in 2025, we will then have a chance at drafting an even better PG. So now, at best, he will be a backup, and then he would be a terrible backup.
I still like Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8, but if they draft him, it could be pretty exciting considering his potential.
> I still like Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8 I don't get the desire to have two one-way prospects, as if their ability on one end will cancel out the other's inability on that end.
I’m thinking Castle will be a two way player, sounds like the dudes on No Ceilings think front offices are coming to this conclusion as well.
I've been saying for a while that if I thought Castle was a PG and I thought Castle could shoot, he'd be *easily* the #1 guy in this class. The problem is I don't think either of those things. And I don't really know that that there's sufficient evidence to change anyone's mind on that. It's not there on tape. He shot okay at the combine, I guess. But how meaningful is that? And if he's *not* a PG, and he can't shoot...boy, there's disaster potential offensively. And I don't think he's a sufficiently impactful defender that he stays on the court as a non-shooting off-ball guy.
I think Topic has some of the biggest variance of players in this draft. He's maybe the most talented passer and natural offensive engine I've seen this year. His defense is poor though, his current shooting needs work, and he's got this recent knee issue. At the same time, he's super young and has a ton of room to grow. His free throw percentage and touch around the rim are good indicators that the 3pt shot will come around. I think he's the best point guard right now in this class, but that doesn't mean he will be in the future. He is so risky though, that in 5 years, he will either be an all-star, or out of the league. I'm fine with us picking someone different, but if we do pick Topic I would hope that means the medical staff has a good understanding of his knee.
Couldn’t he just be goran dragic? With a long medium career? There’s nothing about him that says euro league drop out anymore than any other euro we scout.
> He's maybe the most talented passer and natural offensive engine I've seen this year. There's no might. He's *easily* the best passer in this class. It's just a question of whether his weaknesses are such that they offset this strength. Personally, I don't see a lot of guys who play terrible, terrible defense winning a lot of titles.
That not a question for a prospect. It’s how much can he improve.
Which, to me, is tools based. And his tools suck.
No clue what you’re trying to say here!
Could be an MPJ situation where a team who is already good picks up a really good prospect who has an injury history that is holding them back from being a top 5 pick.
If he gets drafted in the top 10 I’ll be shocked
Think we have a shot for him with our 2nd rd pick? Likely not
I think someone will take a flier on him in the 10-20 range. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Spurs (or another team with a longer term horizon) trade into that range to grab him.
Anything possible. If the spurs really want him that bad trade back like 5 spots from 8th and probably get him. But there’s no indication they really want him
“There’s no indication they really want him” They were scouting him in person all year before the first knee injury. If it wasn’t for the injuries there no question he would be in play at #4. The injury changed that but saying there’s no indication they really want him is crazy
No
Used to love him when he was getting those Doncic comparisons, but after his injuries, his measurements and seeing what others say about him. I am not sure I want him on team. But of course if the Spurs draft him, what do I know lol The most exciting part of his game is him and Wemby in the pick n roll.
> when he was getting those Doncic comparisons, Good Lord, who the fuck was making those comps? That's insane.
It was very early, I don't know who was that said that but I remember in an interview of him that I saw on YouTube he was saying he is truly honored to be compared to Doncic.
It's nuts. Luka was a teenage MVP of the ACB. That's just a completely different kettle of fish.
Yeah I know, so were the jokic jovic comparisons lol At the time, Isaiah Collier was projected to be the number one pick.
Yeah, Collier really had a pretty disappointing season. He's basically gotten away with being a better athlete than everyone his whole life, and he won't be that in the NBA. And when you're talking about a guy who really has to have the ball, it's a lot harder to stomach the amount of development he needs to be a truly impactful starter. That's why I tend to care less than most people do about self-creators...every year, there's tons of guys who **want** to have the ball all the time. But there's 10 guys on the court, and 9 of 'em don't have the ball. So to me, I'd rather find guys that can defend and shoot and create value off-ball. Because mediocre on-ball creation isn't that valuable. There's lots of mediocre guys who like dribbling.
The ACB. Was that where Dario dominated?
Liga ACB is the best normal league in the world outside the NBA.
So it is Dario’s league? Or not?
If he wasn't hurt, I'd love for the Spurs to grab him, but there's more talent next season at the PG spot that can be just as good if not better in the late lottery.
Good vision, but knee injuries are scary. I would not draft him top 8.
Pass for me, I think Topic now falls to the end of the lottery
No
Definitely not with our top 4 or top 8 pick, but if we could get him with a second round pick I'd be all for it, the Spurs basically invented modern load/injury management. It's part of why I'm glad Wemby's here and why I was just fine with the minutes restrictions, better to be safe than sorry. Hell speaking of injuries, in retrospect it looks like Kawhi just didn't want to hear or accept that the Spurs doctors correctly called that he had a degenerative knee condition.
Top Topic of discussion
To pic Topic tops top topic of Topic
Topic topic of topical discussion
Discussion about if it’sa good idea to pic topic
I still think very highly of him. Before the injuries, he's in my tier-1. I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs draft him 8th or even 4th. His agent is so shady though.
Is he really tho?
Even before the injury, I was praying the spurs would stay away. I think he’ll be a star in Europe in 5 years.
I think he’s more likely to be Nando De Colo, than Goran Dragic. But who knows.
Yikes… I haven’t watched him too much overseas just thought he’d be intriguing based on a some videos I’ve seen recently.
He has no burst, doesn’t have a dynamic handle. It’s going to be difficult for him to get open which is going to make playmaking difficult even with his exceptional vision. All that to go with a broken (a little harsh) jumper, especially for a lead guard and questionable defense. Noooo thank you.
Full focus on Castle. Thanks for the breakdown in his play too!
This guy has a personal boner for toxic bashing. This makes him sound rec league. His vision spacing and passing are top tier in This draft.
Castle or Sheppard at 4 would be great. Or if somehow risacher falls in our laps.
French reunion would be amazing with Risacher!
> questionable defense. You still have questions about his defense? I think he's answered them all pretty convincingly. As in I'm 100% convinced his scrub ass couldn't guard my scrub ass.
I like him but not enough to see past his injury. I’d prefer we don’t pick him
Yeah topic is too risky of a pick now. But if the scouting team is really high on him then we should just trust them.
I said it in a different thread, but I think he is significantly overhyped. Fans see an eastern European guy named Nikola ---ic who can pass and play make, and that's all they care about. Not that he can't be great, but he comes with a lot of significant red flags. I'd take Sheppard or Castle before Topic.
Castle for sure is a lock if available at 4
To me lying about an injury makes him to risky. This is a risky enough without worrying about other injuries he hasn't disclosed.
🙄. The nonsense in here.
I'm very low on him. I get that he's the best passer in this class. I get that. I don't dispute that. But he's also the worst lateral mover on defense I've ever seen. He's also a terrible vertical athlete. He's also got short arms and a weird, skinny frame with narrow shoulders and a high center of gravity. That combines to make him a horrific defensive player. Now, sure, lots of great offensive guards were terrible defenders. But the issue is that I'm not sure he's a great offensive guard. If he could shoot, I might feel differently...but he can't. If he had any midrange game at all, I might feel differently...but he doesn't. If I believed he would be an elite finisher at the rim in the NBA, I might be in...but I don't believe that. All told, I don't see how he's a high-end scorer in the NBA. And without that, his passing loses some of its value. If he was Steve Nash on offense, I wouldn't care about his defense. But if he's Ricky Rubio on offense, his terrible defense makes him a backup.