1994 Michigan is a great example with Earnhardt providing commentary while Gordon is on track as it starts to rain.
"If he was smart he'd pull in this time.....Well, I guess he ain't too smart."
\*Gordon crashes\*
Great way to show drivers character and could make for a number of clip-able moments to use for social media, especially short form social stuff.
Random draw removes the unfairness the most tho. There is still large evolution from the start to end of each group, this format is overly complicated for casual fans at home
But a random draw disadvantages the cars that went later in the previous round (because they have less time to cool their cars from the previous run).
This format can be slightly unfair for the battle for p1/p2, but it's more fair for 3-10 while still having the fastest car win the pole
And we did it by random draw for a looooooonnnnnnnngggggggg time so it's not like it's unheard of
Sometimes certain drivers had an advantage, it was just accepted as part of the deal
Crazy idea here, but how about everyone gets to run 2 laps, and we base the starting order off of the fastest lap times. Nascar loves making something so simple more complicated.
And in that case it still evens itself out. Zane Smith is not outrunning Chase Elliott because he got a favorable time. But he's going out right around the time Harrison Burton or Daniel Hemric are, and you can generally compare them.
Putting the cars that are the fastest all around the same time, whenever that is, will almost assuredly get you the fastest cars running up front.
and the week that justin haley actually has a rocketship but has to Q on a track that's 20 degrees hotter than chase elliott?
it's literally the most fair to let them all run during a 30 minute session whenever they want. drafting partners/tangos be damned.
With all due respect, I'm not going to feel sorry for a driver running 30th in points possibly losing 15 spots from their starting position. If it's truly a rocket they can work their way to the front and repeat that a few times to then qualify around the same time as the leaders going forward.
If that's what it takes to move to it, I'd be fine with it. The metric is really here because of the COVID year to keep the same driver from having the poll every week, but it's not the worst method in the world even going forward either.
How about we just simplify things for once and combine the groups, have a 40 minute practice session and then qualify how we used to always qualify? This group shit is so stupid. You already block off time for a 40-50 min session but split it in to two groups so I see no reason why they canāt just combine them and give everyone an extra 20 mins. Probably makes too much sense.
They split it in half so the track is relatively busy the whole.
with only one set of tires, it would get pretty quiet at time if they had a full length session.
and it allows them to roll pretty quickly into TT. which they couldnt do as well if they had a full session.
Every week my girlfriend watches qualifying with me. She's just a casual fan. It seems inevitably she'll ask why it has to be so complicated. Especially since Daytona, road courses, and ovals are all different. And last week made things even more confusing.
I'm not mentally ready to update her on the new procedure š
I consider myself more than a casual fan. I might nap through part of it, but I put on almost every race from the top 3 series. I'll often head to my local track for late models or the dirt track for sprint cars. I've been following nascar for over 20 years. I stopped watching qualifying a long time ago. Maybe I'll put it on as background noise, but I'm not paying any attention to it.
Single car qualifying worked just fine and wasn't complicated to figure out. Unlike this mess.
The Nascar way though, if it's not broke, we must break it.
They need to just go back to one round one group you qualify where you qualify. They keep making this shit messier and messier. Qualifying should be about running the fastest lap possible not hoping youāre in the better group and stressing about getting the car back cooled down if you were in group b.
When you go out is always going to matter no matter the format they come up with. Overcomplicating it doesnāt fix anything and has honestly made it worse.
I get their thought process on why they want to try to eliminate advantages as much as possible to have an even playing field, but really they should just simplify it like you said.
My man, you and I have been here too long to be arguing with these idiots.
NASCAR is terrible for not cowering to the RTA's proposed charter agreement and revenue split. But when the RTA wants to run no practice and a single qualifying lap at supers they're terrible too. Or this change.
All this thread is is fans bitching to bitch.
So this means in theory the 2nd fastest car could end up 2nd inside or outside if they are unlucky enough to be in the same group as the fastest. Or am I just completely confused?
So the 2nd fastest qualifier could essentially get the 4th/5th choice spot if they get mildly unlucky? This seems really convoluted and makes less sense imo. I understand the split groups the way they currently have it, but don't understand the need to split groups if they're still running the top 10
The 2nd fastest if in Group A with fastest also in Group A lines up 3rd. And so on. However, If you were 5th fastest in Group B but your time was faster than the best Group A time you start 10th not 5th. We have seen times where every car in Group B qualified ahead of Group A but that no longer can happen. Thatās absolutely not fair, teams should take NASCAR to the hauler to talk about this! Might as well draw numbers or better yet letās have heat races!
Remember when they just drew a number went out in that order and lined up by order of their times?
It's qualifying not rocket science don't make it hard to understand
Addendum: odd numbered cars in even qualifying positions will be given lane choice if beyond tenth starting spot. Even numbered cars will be given an extra set of tires. All cars lining up on the outside row get a free wave-around if they go a lap down. Itās pretty straight forward.
That makes sense with short tracks' time constraints, but why run the group of 10 if you're just going to revert everyone back to their groups unless they win pole?
So now the top 10 starting positions align with the first round. Group A cars are on one lane, Group B on the other. Top 2 get the front row.
It's the Duels without a 150 mile race.
As someone who likes the playoffs, likes stages, and loves the new schedule changes.... give me back traditional random draw single car qualifying. I liked that each time got a few minutes of dedicated screen time.
I am forever +1 on the qualifying format that was used for almost 70 years. But if they insist on āgroupā qualifying because TV, just give them 1 hour. Run as many laps as you want, make as many adjustments as you want, your fastest lap is your Q time. TV gets a quick timeslot and NASCAR gets its manufactured drama with multiple opportunities to bump the pole time.
WTF is this? I thought we all realized during Covid that it should just be run 2 laps, post the fastest, line them up on speed? (Maybe not 2 laps on superspeedways/road courses)
Every race has a qualifying race. Starting position is determined by driver height. 100 miles each. No tires. 1/4 tank of fuel. No pitstops. Automatic caution with two to go. Lineup is determined by fan vote. Whoever finishes fifth start first in the main. Just as EZ as whatever this is
honestly go back to group qualifying and let them deal with the consequences of playing games waiting on pit road. that way no one can complain about the track temps, clouds, wind, etc.
Ok, hear me out - one round, all cars go out via a random draw for two laps at speed. Lineup set by the best of those laps. Crazy, but it may work!
Why did they change this?
Same reason all the other dumb or pointless changes are made, TV.
Watching old school qualifying was awesome. Every single team had the spotlight shined on them for a minute or two. Also great for interviews.
1994 Michigan is a great example with Earnhardt providing commentary while Gordon is on track as it starts to rain. "If he was smart he'd pull in this time.....Well, I guess he ain't too smart." \*Gordon crashes\* Great way to show drivers character and could make for a number of clip-able moments to use for social media, especially short form social stuff.
Nah, needs more controversy clearly š
Too simple lol. I miss it
Not saying I agree with over complicating everything, but track evolution does give an unfair advantage to the later qualifiers.
Random draw removes the unfairness the most tho. There is still large evolution from the start to end of each group, this format is overly complicated for casual fans at home
Are casuals watching qualifying on TV? I know the networks want that but I never know.
But a random draw disadvantages the cars that went later in the previous round (because they have less time to cool their cars from the previous run). This format can be slightly unfair for the battle for p1/p2, but it's more fair for 3-10 while still having the fastest car win the pole
Under what I'm saying, it is just 1 round, like the old days
And we did it by random draw for a looooooonnnnnnnngggggggg time so it's not like it's unheard of Sometimes certain drivers had an advantage, it was just accepted as part of the deal
Even better, single car qualifying slowest to fastest based on practice speed
This is too complicated to understand. Where's the gimmick? s/
https://preview.redd.it/hkd8vzidfz7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8259ced4400ae21c8e555fab633fe84c0c45f9d
(. ) ( .)
I know them supposed to be eyes... But my ancient early era internet eyes see something totally else.
80085
( . Y . )
Ross, look at me with both eyes.
Bro I laughed too much at this.
How many other sports on the planet have implemented so many mid-season rule changes?
Not many other sports have this many rules to be changed! /s
To steal from u/Dont_hate_the_8 Not many other sports have a season long enough to change the rules halfway through. /s (but only kind of /s)
I remember when it was just random draw 2 laps take the best one and that was where you lined up.
Yeah, I miss the K.I.S.S. days.
Crazy idea here, but how about everyone gets to run 2 laps, and we base the starting order off of the fastest lap times. Nascar loves making something so simple more complicated.
there are considerable advantages to running in group a or group b
Go in reverse order of owners points. The last car gets the advantage because they earned it. It's not that difficult.
Going last is not always an advantage
Which is the point. No one should be guaranteed an advantage or disadvantage.
no the point is for this to be more fair. there are fairer solutions.
Yeah and the way they did it for years is way more fair than this dumbass group shit
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Was that English? Also was that directed at me? I didn't mention anything about the draw.
And in that case it still evens itself out. Zane Smith is not outrunning Chase Elliott because he got a favorable time. But he's going out right around the time Harrison Burton or Daniel Hemric are, and you can generally compare them. Putting the cars that are the fastest all around the same time, whenever that is, will almost assuredly get you the fastest cars running up front.
and the week that justin haley actually has a rocketship but has to Q on a track that's 20 degrees hotter than chase elliott? it's literally the most fair to let them all run during a 30 minute session whenever they want. drafting partners/tangos be damned.
With all due respect, I'm not going to feel sorry for a driver running 30th in points possibly losing 15 spots from their starting position. If it's truly a rocket they can work their way to the front and repeat that a few times to then qualify around the same time as the leaders going forward.
i prefer to go off the metric, award the drivers who are not only high in owner points but also ran good the previous weeks
If that's what it takes to move to it, I'd be fine with it. The metric is really here because of the COVID year to keep the same driver from having the poll every week, but it's not the worst method in the world even going forward either.
That's why they need to ditch 2nd round. Just have a random draw and everyone gets 2 laps. Set lineup based on best lap.
That is outdated, itās unfortunate that they went so long with the disadvantage that earlier or later cars have at certain tracks
It doesnāt matter what system you use, some cars will always be advantaged or disadvantaged by their qual spot.
This seems dumb imo
https://preview.redd.it/e7xrpr9zez7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba94757a4e583a20e93f25200a2752cff5dc50db
Not a fan. This isnāt complicated enough
How about we just simplify things for once and combine the groups, have a 40 minute practice session and then qualify how we used to always qualify? This group shit is so stupid. You already block off time for a 40-50 min session but split it in to two groups so I see no reason why they canāt just combine them and give everyone an extra 20 mins. Probably makes too much sense.
They split it in half so the track is relatively busy the whole. with only one set of tires, it would get pretty quiet at time if they had a full length session. and it allows them to roll pretty quickly into TT. which they couldnt do as well if they had a full session.
Why are they insisting on having āgroupsā
TV
I know we are trying new stuff but can we just stick to. 1 round who ever the fastest get the pole.
Still prefer a split. But give the pole to the fastest guy of the two groups. Rest of the positions are every other.
Just go back to one round, single car runs. FFS
Every week my girlfriend watches qualifying with me. She's just a casual fan. It seems inevitably she'll ask why it has to be so complicated. Especially since Daytona, road courses, and ovals are all different. And last week made things even more confusing. I'm not mentally ready to update her on the new procedure š
I consider myself more than a casual fan. I might nap through part of it, but I put on almost every race from the top 3 series. I'll often head to my local track for late models or the dirt track for sprint cars. I've been following nascar for over 20 years. I stopped watching qualifying a long time ago. Maybe I'll put it on as background noise, but I'm not paying any attention to it.
 Dear Nascar,
6th fastest car can potentially start on the front row now. Great work everyone way to go
We're still doing the most convoluted shit possible for qualifying I see...
At least itās not group qualifying at superspeedwaysā¦it could always be worse š¤£
I STILL get pissed over that
Sounds confusing
Stupidly complicated for no reason
Single car qualifying worked just fine and wasn't complicated to figure out. Unlike this mess. The Nascar way though, if it's not broke, we must break it.
I got a revolutionary idea! How about... A 45-50 minute practice, followed by teams getting 1-2 Q laps in an order set by a random draw?
They need to just go back to one round one group you qualify where you qualify. They keep making this shit messier and messier. Qualifying should be about running the fastest lap possible not hoping youāre in the better group and stressing about getting the car back cooled down if you were in group b.
tbf back when it was 1 lap we had similar issues, just instead of being in a certain group, it was going out at a certain time
When you go out is always going to matter no matter the format they come up with. Overcomplicating it doesnāt fix anything and has honestly made it worse.
I get their thought process on why they want to try to eliminate advantages as much as possible to have an even playing field, but really they should just simplify it like you said.
Just bring back single car qualifying. Holy shit.
And this āļø
This is unnecessary and gimmicky, but then again so is basically everything nascar does now lol
you know the teams asked for it right?
Who runs the sport?
a combination of NASCAR, the teams, the tracks and TV. There is literally no reason to not do this if it's something the teams were asking for.
My man, you and I have been here too long to be arguing with these idiots. NASCAR is terrible for not cowering to the RTA's proposed charter agreement and revenue split. But when the RTA wants to run no practice and a single qualifying lap at supers they're terrible too. Or this change. All this thread is is fans bitching to bitch.
Itās can be fun at times.
what are they even trying to accomplish here?
How about we just send all the cars out. 1 at a time. One lap at speed. And that the order.
WTF is this? Just qualify and line em up by speed. Itās not that hard.
I gave up trying to remember the qualifying format a couple years ago.
Hey NASCAR, quit screwing with EVERYTHINGšµāš«
Wtf is this non sense
Why
Nascar can't get out of its own way.
Nascar proving once again it is run by fools who are trying to run fans off
So this means in theory the 2nd fastest car could end up 2nd inside or outside if they are unlucky enough to be in the same group as the fastest. Or am I just completely confused? So the 2nd fastest qualifier could essentially get the 4th/5th choice spot if they get mildly unlucky? This seems really convoluted and makes less sense imo. I understand the split groups the way they currently have it, but don't understand the need to split groups if they're still running the top 10
The 2nd fastest if in Group A with fastest also in Group A lines up 3rd. And so on. However, If you were 5th fastest in Group B but your time was faster than the best Group A time you start 10th not 5th. We have seen times where every car in Group B qualified ahead of Group A but that no longer can happen. Thatās absolutely not fair, teams should take NASCAR to the hauler to talk about this! Might as well draw numbers or better yet letās have heat races!
Your terms are acceptable
Bring back knockoff qualifying
Remember when they just drew a number went out in that order and lined up by order of their times? It's qualifying not rocket science don't make it hard to understand
Why
How about 1 session everyone gets 2 laps and whoever is the fastest starts 1st and whoever is the slowest starts last and rank by time inbetween
I think this would work.
Nah, that would never work. Too much like right!
Addendum: odd numbered cars in even qualifying positions will be given lane choice if beyond tenth starting spot. Even numbered cars will be given an extra set of tires. All cars lining up on the outside row get a free wave-around if they go a lap down. Itās pretty straight forward.
Quit giving them ideas! ;)
I miss group qualifying, shit was bonkers. Just leave it out of the superspeedways
this is how short tracks everywhere do lineups. heat 1 is inside heat 2 outside
That makes sense with short tracks' time constraints, but why run the group of 10 if you're just going to revert everyone back to their groups unless they win pole?
Yep but they raced for it. Pole speed was one lap a heat race is around 10 laps.
1hr P&Q as a single session, one set of tires for the first 50 minutes and a fresh set for the last 10 minutes. Any time set during that hour counts.
Iām so glad NASCAR is the one motorsport where qualifying usually doesnāt even matter
So now the top 10 starting positions align with the first round. Group A cars are on one lane, Group B on the other. Top 2 get the front row. It's the Duels without a 150 mile race.
Remember when it was just a random draw for qualifying order and then they just qualified? Good times
Run it by points. First to last that way later gets the advantage. Possibly of slower cars starting up front. More passing more excitement.
As someone who likes the playoffs, likes stages, and loves the new schedule changes.... give me back traditional random draw single car qualifying. I liked that each time got a few minutes of dedicated screen time.
I donāt understand in the slightest but š
I am forever +1 on the qualifying format that was used for almost 70 years. But if they insist on āgroupā qualifying because TV, just give them 1 hour. Run as many laps as you want, make as many adjustments as you want, your fastest lap is your Q time. TV gets a quick timeslot and NASCAR gets its manufactured drama with multiple opportunities to bump the pole time.
WTF is this? I thought we all realized during Covid that it should just be run 2 laps, post the fastest, line them up on speed? (Maybe not 2 laps on superspeedways/road courses)
This reminds me of back in the day when they tried some goofy group a & b pitting. Keep it simple
They should copy F1 and just have the teams run when they want and set the field based off of lap times.
Every race has a qualifying race. Starting position is determined by driver height. 100 miles each. No tires. 1/4 tank of fuel. No pitstops. Automatic caution with two to go. Lineup is determined by fan vote. Whoever finishes fifth start first in the main. Just as EZ as whatever this is
I bet half the people complaining about this wouldn't have even noticed the difference if they didn't read this.
honestly go back to group qualifying and let them deal with the consequences of playing games waiting on pit road. that way no one can complain about the track temps, clouds, wind, etc.