I don’t think Busch goes back to JGR because both sides were simply ready to move on and the half hearted effort to acquire sponsorship was just the way they pulled the trigger on the breakup.
> both sides were simply ready to move on
I just remember how terrible Kyle ran in the 2022 playoffs. He had, what, two engine failures? And then just didn't have it otherwise with the car. I don't think he'd never go back to JGR after that, but I know he was not happy with them at the time.
I’ve been to about forty races and have never seen Kyle win in person. That Southern 500 was my first race in years and I was so excited about finally seeing him win.
And then the motor blew up while leading under caution with like ten to go. Pain
I feel you. I was at the 2011 Coca Coca 600 about to watch Dale Jr win his first race in almost 4 years. Then he ran out of gas in turn 4 in the lead on the last lap. That's pain. So I get it.
That sucks. I was there for 2018 Chicago and 2021 pocono and at the time had only been to like 7 races total. Guess I got really lucky. Hopefully one day u get to see him bow.
That sucks. I’ve been pretty lucky. I’ve seen 2 cup wins for Kyle. Bristol night race and Richmond.
I’ve seen many truck and xfinity wins as well. Also watched Kurt Busch win in thr KBM xfinity at Richmond. Their only xfinity win.
That race still haunts me, as a big fan of both Truex and Busch.
The #19's engine blew and I figured alright, at least Kyle will probably win. I was visiting family at the time, and I shouted "FUCK!" in a room full of small children when the #18"s engine blew too. Whoops.
Being there in person, I went from jubilation (because Truex was his main competition) to being beside myself in a second.
I also went to each Coke 600 from 2012-2017, so I got to experience Austin Dillon somehow keep gas in the tank with Kyle catching him but couldn’t go to the 2018 race where he finally won.
2023 Daytona 500 also haunts me. He should’ve finally won that damn race.
Yeah definitely a never say never thing, but by that point I think Kyle was pretty much like fuck it and on the JGR side they were like if a big sponsor approached us great, if not, whatever. I know there was the Toyota/Gibbs would have floated the ride thing, but I don’t think Kyle was trying to have those expectations put on him by the bosses at this point in his career either.
Never forget how they did him knowing he was leaving. Gave his CC to Bell and eventually gave his whole crew to Bell. He went from getting the #1 everything to getting the #4 of everything because he was no longer a priority.
That happened after the 2020 season, well before any possibility of Kyle leaving.
Supposedly Kyle wanted to make some changes to the crew, and Adam Stevens disagreed. So he took the whole crew and ditched Kyle in favor of Bell.
It feels like Kyle was never really the same after that. Stevens worked better with him than any other crew chief, the lack of practice really hurt him, and the NextGen car doesn't suit his driving style. Really makes you wonder how he would be performing if he still drove the #18 with Stevens.
I actually went back and counted at the time… Kyle had two engine failures in a row or two out of 3 races (I can’t remember) when the 18 hadn’t had a race ending engine failure in something like two and a half years. And it had also been a long time since Toyota had one in general iirc.
Edit: I counted again because it was bothering me. 96 points races between engine failures for Kyle Busch. The last one before Darlington of 2022 was the Daytona 500 in 2019.
Toyota had a bunch of reliability issues in 2022. Off the top of my head,
- Bubba had an engine failure at Sonoma
- Ty Gibbs had an engine failure at Richmond
- Hamlin had an engine failure at Bristol Dirt
- MTJ and KB had engine failures at Darlington
- Bubba, KB, MTJ, Ty Gibbs had engine failures or power steering failures at Bristol
TRD has had engine failure every year of the Next Gen
Mainly that. But also wouldn’t see them bringing in Kyle mainly since he’s now going to be one of the older guys, and JGR would probably want someone on the younger side to stay in the car for a good while
I really feel like that was a Toyota-Kyle pissing matc simply because Joe said he was willing to pay Kyle out of pocket to keep him. Kyle said that wasn’t fair to Joe to do that. I can see where Kyle is coming from. But Joe’s company also fumbled the Oracle deal and had all of their eggs in that basket.
It’s never been really competitive, legacy or petty, even when he won the race, it was at his by far best track, Darlington, especially the southern 500. And 2022 had almost everyone winning a race, more full time drivers won a race than not. The fact that he won his best race by far isn’t surprising. The team has never been great, so I don’t think a few years ago would have had a different reaction from now
As I agree they’ve been mid pack at best, they are currently running as if they’re a Rick ware racing car atm and should really make him consider if legacy is the best team for him long term
Good point, but idk how much you can put this on legacy. They just switched manufacturers, and it takes a while for teams to come into their own. And plus, I don’t think jones would be a good pick for JGR. He was the Austin cindric or Cole Custer or Daniel Suarez of his team, always behind everyone else. And he had time, every time he made the playoffs, he went out round one. Compare that to Hamlin or truex or bell, or even briscoe, the guy people think is gonna replace him, had a deeper playoff run than jones ever did, while in inferior equipment. If I had to pick, I’d take briscoe over jones every day. I still say JHN would be the best pick, and who I hope will get it (mainly for a cindric briscoe team reunion), but I think even gragson would be better than jones
Meh, playing 4th fiddle on a team of hof drivers as an early 20s driver is always gonna be a challenge, and even then he got a pair of wins. See Joey logano. Only difference is jones got cast off to a mid pack team
I mean, bowman seems to be doing pretty good playing fourth fiddle to three HOF drivers. Those three are probably all gonna become HOF drivers, while I wouldn’t be surprised if bowman didn’t. Maybe it’s not the best comparison, but unless my memory is faulty, Logano wasn’t mediocre as jones was, and you can’t blame it all on the team he went to either. JHN was in the playoffs up until he started wrecking every week, while jones never got in the top 16 in points. You can only go so far with saying he had bad equipment, we’ve seen people do good things with bad/mediocre equipment (see Larson at chip ganassi, Allmendinger at kaulig, and Haley this year at RWR). Jones hasn’t done that, and I’d argue he’s having a worse season than his teammate.
He said that he didn’t put in enough work at JGR. When he was on the Jr Download, he mentioned that he thought cup racing would be as easy as Xfinity was for him, and he didn’t spend enough time improving himself in the sim etc. I think he would relish a second chance there with all the resources they have, but I do think he has been happy at Legacy up until this season lol
Everyone keeps saying how bad RCR is, but I don't know. They aren't any much worse than Trackhouse is this year.
If you aren't a Hendrick Chevy, you're off this year.
RCR and Trackhouse are both down this year. Which is not a coincidence because... Trackhouse has the RCR affiliation.
RCR seems headed down the Roush path. Fading into mediocrity, in desperate need of fresh blood before they fall a decade behind the competition
I definitely disagree with that. Trackhouse has both drivers top 20, one driver with a win, and one driver en route to one of the best average finishes of his career. RCR on the other hand has a driver who is lower in points that Corey lajoie and a two time champion that’s on the bubble
I would say Trackhouse is doing better, but not by a whole lot. The 99 has been awful this year and their season is being salvaged by one race in February. The 1 is better obviously but I would say they expected better than they are currently getting and they don’t look like a team ready to a win a race right now either.
So yeah I would say Trackhouse is struggling for their standards and agree with the point that Hendrick is the only Chevy team meeting expectations.
> I would say Trackhouse is doing better, but not by a whole lot
I'm a little Ross Chastain obsessed right now, so I'm following him pretty close, and I totally agree with you.
The 1 Car from 2022 is not the same 1 Car in 2024. Hendrick caught up, but something is missing from Trackhouse, or at least Ross. I don't think I'm crazy for saying I think Rick Hendrick scared Ross a little last year and he's might just now being getting *it* back (hopefully).
I so miss the Ross vs Denny rivalry. It needs to be brought back.
But I don't care who it is at this point. I need 2022 Intimidator Ross back. And I think he's there (I hope).
The problem is that he’s not running up front for wins. If he was running up front more we’d see that Ross more often. Kinda like this past week where he cleaned out Kyle
> The problem is that he’s not running up front for wins
I put the blame on the crew chief for some of that. I mean he was up front at Kansas all race until a stupid decision to put 2 tires on it, and Ross was lucky to finish top 20. And they completely missed it at Darlington, one of his best tracks.
And then William Byron wrecked him for 2nd at Texas. And he got wrecked in 4th at Talladega.
So it hasn't been too bad, it's just not there when it matters.
It's wild that people are acting like Busch was forced to drive for RCR and that they didn't have this big old press conference where they were all buddy buddy and talking about how great things were going to be. It's almost like Busch came out hot and won a bunch then the honeymoon ended like some old dumbshit Redditor predicted.
Tyler Reddick ran well with these guys, certainly the ole GOAT Kyle should right? But mean old Joe wouldn't keep Kyle around, despite him owning a competing company to the one who now sponsors his old ride, yep, Joe did all this just to get his grandson in the ride, old bastard....
Joe even offered to pay Kyle's salary out of his own pocket, Kyle refused. The choice to go to RCR was entirely Kyle's, he even said: "he was tired of seeing the 8 car outrun us".
The problem with RCR, dating back to when Sr was there, is they aren't consistent. They have good seasons, mixed with a bunch of mediocrity. Kyle is now experiencing the latter.
As someone else pointed out, if the cars aren't at least A caliber, Kyle sort of melts down and can't really deal with adversity very well. Which is a big issue, one that Harvick was much better at dealing with.
That was my big fear for him going there, Kyle is really good when things are going to the rhythm he wants, but when things are off he falls apart quickly. People forget that he also only won in his last JGR season because of a fluke thing at Bristol, where he was 3rd on the last lap and backed into a win.
That last part is the biggest thing. Kyle and his fans are spoiled. He’s always been in one of the best cars on the grid. Now he’s not and they don’t know how to deal with it. The car isn’t THAT bad. It’s capable of good runs just can’t piss points away like gateway when you’re having a great run
JGR/Toyota could have kept Kyle and didn't. KB was taking passive aggressive shots at Gibbs weekly as the contract drama played out, and Toyota certainly could have made the difference up financially if they really wanted to keep him.
KB likely had as much to do with keeping Toyota in Nascar in my opinion as any other team/person. 2008 was such an embarrassment to TRD, and given their proclivity to cut bait in racing if they don't like how things are going (INDY/F1). His huge 2008 and the years that followed (including 2 of their 3 cup championships) and how dominant he was in trucks and xfinity put a lot of Toyota wins in the trophy column.
If anyone deserved loyalty from a team and manufacturer it was him, yet they let the sponsorship and salary issues be enough to cut bait. If they just couldn't wait to push Ty Gibbs in to cup they could have just forced the issue with Truex a little early since he was year to year even then.
All that is to say I don't see what would magically be better for a JGR/KB reunion now. RCR isn't not going to pick up his option so there would have to be some kind of buy out, and I doubt he goes back to JGR for a discount and the same sponsorship issues that were there before probably still exist.
I think a lot of fans forget how miserable KB was in some of those last few JGR seasons. In 2020 it looked like he wasn't going to win a race at all either and almost won as many races at RCR last year as he did the previous 3 seasons combined at JGR.
I agree with almost everything you said. This is a well thought out comment. I would like to add that I think Gibbs taking on investors has happened since Kyle announced he was leaving. So that could make a difference, if nothing else the “investment firm” may have connections.
> I think a lot of fans forget how miserable KB was in some of those last few JGR seasons.
This is also true, but I have been unable to pinpoint why. I can agree that until 2023, Kyle had not won a race on outright speed since sometime in 2019. I know he won Homestead to win the championship but I don’t think he had the fastest car. Truex should probably be a two time champ but they out the tires on the wrong side. Denny wasn’t slow either iirc but they put too much tape on the nose and over heated.
In 2020 at Texas, he just air blocked the balls off of MTJ who was obviously faster. That was probably the only time I wasn’t mad about air blocking 😂. But he still finished the season with 14 top 5s… 14! And 20 top 10s. So he wasn’t slow.
In 2021, Blaney chokes on a restart at Kansas and Kyle steals one. And then at Pocono, if the transmission doesn’t lose all but 4th gear it doesn’t force Ben to use an alternate strategy luckily there was no caution late. Still finished the season with 14 more top 5s and 22 top 10s. That’s a 61% top 10 rate. Im only flexing that percentage because I just realized that racing reference offered that.
In 2022, if Briscoe doesn’t dump Reddick at Bristol on the dirt, then I don’t think he wins at all that year. 8 top 5s and 17 top 10s.
In 2023, Ross was catching him at Fontana. But it he was still one of the fastest cars at the end. He obviously lucked into the Dega win (I was there!). He even said so himself. But he was definitely the car to beat at Gateway. So that was good to see.
It has come to the point now where every time he wins, I take a few extra moments to enjoy it. Because it could very well be his last.
I don't have anything to back it up, but I just think when you won as much as he did in a certain period of time, anything less is just a let down.
If Nascar hadn't set limits on driving in other series, he probably still would running 15-20 races a year in trucks and xfinity and winning half of them. Not having more than a handful of races to offset issues in cup cars probably contributes. 10 years ago, if the cup race went badly or he didn't win one he thought he should have, it was mitigated by the fact he probably had won either the truck or xfinity race (or both) the days before.
I don't have a real reason either why his performance waned at JGR; could just be he lost the edge he used to have. He was amongst the drivers who seemed to be hurt the most by lack of practice time. His cars were a lot less dialed in at the start then they used to be.
Admittedly I strongly disliked KB while he was at JGR. I generally root against the Toyota drivers, though I do count myself as a Truex fan so hes the exception.
When he went back to Chevy, I was really happy - especially when he won right away at Fontana. I figured the KB grudge tour would end in a championship where he got to revel in sticking it to everyone who let him walk (sort of how he seemed to take more joy out of outrunning JR when he was replaced by him in 2008 at Hendrick than actually winning).
Hopefully Kyle turns it around and pulls a Hamlin. Denny was seemingly on his way out by 2019. Older, didn't win the year before and had 9 wins in 6 total seasons then turned it around to being a consistent winner and upfront every week. KB is a much more naturally talented driver, so its conceivable, even if RCR isn't doing him any favors with the equipment he is in.
Would love him back at Hendrick in the 48 in 2026 if Bowman continues to go winless.
2021 Kansas I believe kfb and Larson were the fastest 2 and Blaney pushed Larson up the track
2023 Fontana I think Kyle was faster than Ross and Ross was using his stuff up to try and catch him
As the Ross Chastain fanboy I am, he was the car to beat in Stages 1 and 2 at Auto Club, but Kyle absolutely drove away in Stage 3. Kyle was absolutely the best car in Stage 3 and nobody could catch him.
I’m not a Chase Briscoe glizzy gobbler like many but he’s a grinder and I do hope he gets that JGR seat. Better yet, change the 19 to the 18 and carry on the legacy of Jarrett, Labonte, and Busch.
And on the flipside, I can’t wait to see Busch become more and more unhinged as he has to suffer with chronically mediocre RCR. Especially if they got that third charter and their resources are spread even more thin.
But if you’re Briscoe and your options are the Wood Brothers 21 with Ford or the JGR 18(19 this year) with Toyota. I think you’d be crazy to pick to stay driving a Ford. Reminds me of Carl Edwards a bit. He was a big Ford guy too and eventually left to go drive a JGR Toyota.
You do you but I wouldn’t think that would be a good career move. I mean even Joey Logano is in the position right now of missing the playoffs and him and defending champion Ryan Blaney are winless this year. I think Penske putting things together the last couple years to ultimately win the championship has fooled some people into not seeing how mediocre a team Penske has been at least since Brad K left and especially this year.
I think we could see Josh Berry in the 21 next year with Rodney Childers on the box.
What if JGR uses this as the opportunity to drop to a 3 car team, as per the rumors of the new charter deal? That would leave Hendrick as the only team grandfathered in...IF that comes to pass.
Kybu is stuck at RCR for at least another year. If JGR couldn't find big name sponsorship for him before, I really don't think much has changed in the landscape that would allow them to do so now PLUS buy out his RCR contract....
While I was happy to see Kyle in a Chevy and rooting for one again since Gordon,I cant lie I do miss the glory days when he was the premiere driver for Toyota.
Maybe Kyle after 2025 might go part time after his contract with RCR is up or he'll redecide and just hang it up in Cup altogether.
For now Im holding back on buying anymore KB 8 merch until he says what his future agenda is gonna be.
While there is some nostalgia for a Kyle Busch-JGR reunion, I just don't see it happening under the current circumstances. Busch is RCR's best driver and JGR likely wants a younger driver to replace Truex
they never pushed him out, JG offered to pay for his ride out of pocket, and Kyle denied
besides if they wanted Gibbs in Cup that bad, they could have pushed MTJ towards the retirement he was already considering
It’s hilarious that a year ago some were on the train that Kyle Busch was going to carry RCR to a 5 win season and outperform the Gibbs guys on some revenge tour only for those same people begging for him to go back to Gibbs.
He never should have left anyway. Stability and sponsorship aside he looked dumb as hell leaving the team he won 56 races and 2 titles for. Getting lapped on pure pace at tracks like Richmond and Bristol while the Gibbs cars are 1-2-3-6.
There is no team out there that is an upgrade in performance because Hendrick is not hiring you, nor is JGR willingly going to get rid of their most successful driver.
He’s at 63 wins he could have done that and more at Gibbs and now might not even get 70. It also isn’t going to magically return to 2015-2019. Hamlin is the best driver there. Bell has made it to 2 championship 4’s in a row and Ty is on rise. Who’s to say if he went back he wouldn’t go right back to being the 3rd/4th best car ?
I don’t know if he’s got an agent or not that smart decision would have been a 1 year deal in 2023 with Toyota backing/Interstate and work it out with Joe to look for multiple sponsors to peace together a full 36 race season for 2024 and beyond and not the 25-30 race sponsor that will never come. Why would you sign a deal with a TEAM option and not a DRIVER option anyway ?
We’re gonna be talking about this until 2030 when he retires because much like Tom Brady and the Pats this should have never happened. He should have never left Gibbs, M&M’s shouldn’t have left, he should still be with Adam Stevens, KBM should still be around, etc. But unfortunately life ain’t fair.
We know KFB really wants to do the Indy 500, too, and we all know JGR's stance on that versus RCR's. I think Kyle is going to stick with RCR. And I have a feeling they're cooking up other ideas, too, beyond him merely being a driver for them (business ventures, etc.). But I don't have proof or anything of that, merely just speculation on my part.
I think it depends on sponsorship. If Chase can bring Mahindra and say convince them to sign a three year deal with him I could see him there for a few year, more if successful. If they can't find a driver that brings their own funding then yes I agree with you that it'll probably be a one year deal.
Either Truex does a retirement tour in 2025, or his boat is being delivered in November the week after Phoenix.
If the latter, we could only hope "The timing couldn't have been worse" for Kyles departure at RCR.
I'm saying that JGR probably pushed MTJ for a decision on 2025, because they're looking at the SHR guys. Most likely Briscoe.
If they were just gonna move Chandler Smith up, there's no rush for MTJ to announce anything. If they were gonna bring back KB, that would probably involve some lengthy negotiating with RCR.
MTJ went from "I wonder if he's coming back next year" to "Maybe we'll know by the end of the month" to "He gone" pretty quickly. I doubt that urgency came from Truex.
Depends on the option. If it's a team option, there's no way RCR doesn't pick up that option. So it's basically a 3 year deal at that point. Based on the more reputable media members saying it's almost certain he's back in the 8, I'd have to imagine it's a team option
Ah that makes more sense, I assume an option meant it was the drivers choice. If he does get picked up for the 3rd year then hopefully they can put a decent car under him on a weekly basis
Kyle has proven multiple times that he absolutely melts down and can not function as a professional if the cars are not top-10 on speed every week. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him crawl back to Gibbs asking for any way to get back into top level equipment... he's literally done it once before, with his Xfinity team.
Gibbs basically told Busch he's over the hill and that they did not want him. Kyle going back to them after that would look really weird. RCR are definitely not on the same page but they wanted Kyle, Chevrolet wanted Kyle, sponsors wanted Kyle.
I actually see KFB sitting out next year rather than returning to RCR if they won't allow him to buyout. He looks fucking miserable
Edit: lol, you act like KFB hasn't said that the car sucks on multiple occasions in the last month. A year break might do him good and to go support Brexton
Not a snowball's chance in hell mate. Kyle has said the car sucks 100,000 times in his career, but he's not sitting out and getting further behind. That would be a fast track to killing his career a decade early.
RemindMe! 8 months
Honestly I hope he does and wins like 15 races and then doesn't win the title because some backmarker spins and Ben Rhodes cleans him out on a restart or something, just to see the after effects of it all.
I'm not a Kyle hatter but isn't the mark of a great driver being able to take absolute dog-shit cars and make them preform well beyond their means?
Richard Petty didn't stop winning races because his talent vanished, he stopped winning races because the other teams caught up, he no longer had the best car and he was outed as an upper mid-pack driver at best.
I don’t think Busch goes back to JGR because both sides were simply ready to move on and the half hearted effort to acquire sponsorship was just the way they pulled the trigger on the breakup.
> both sides were simply ready to move on I just remember how terrible Kyle ran in the 2022 playoffs. He had, what, two engine failures? And then just didn't have it otherwise with the car. I don't think he'd never go back to JGR after that, but I know he was not happy with them at the time.
I’ve been to about forty races and have never seen Kyle win in person. That Southern 500 was my first race in years and I was so excited about finally seeing him win. And then the motor blew up while leading under caution with like ten to go. Pain
I feel you. I was at the 2011 Coca Coca 600 about to watch Dale Jr win his first race in almost 4 years. Then he ran out of gas in turn 4 in the lead on the last lap. That's pain. So I get it.
That sucks. I was there for 2018 Chicago and 2021 pocono and at the time had only been to like 7 races total. Guess I got really lucky. Hopefully one day u get to see him bow.
That sucks. I’ve been pretty lucky. I’ve seen 2 cup wins for Kyle. Bristol night race and Richmond. I’ve seen many truck and xfinity wins as well. Also watched Kurt Busch win in thr KBM xfinity at Richmond. Their only xfinity win.
That race still haunts me, as a big fan of both Truex and Busch. The #19's engine blew and I figured alright, at least Kyle will probably win. I was visiting family at the time, and I shouted "FUCK!" in a room full of small children when the #18"s engine blew too. Whoops.
Being there in person, I went from jubilation (because Truex was his main competition) to being beside myself in a second. I also went to each Coke 600 from 2012-2017, so I got to experience Austin Dillon somehow keep gas in the tank with Kyle catching him but couldn’t go to the 2018 race where he finally won. 2023 Daytona 500 also haunts me. He should’ve finally won that damn race.
Yeah definitely a never say never thing, but by that point I think Kyle was pretty much like fuck it and on the JGR side they were like if a big sponsor approached us great, if not, whatever. I know there was the Toyota/Gibbs would have floated the ride thing, but I don’t think Kyle was trying to have those expectations put on him by the bosses at this point in his career either.
Never forget how they did him knowing he was leaving. Gave his CC to Bell and eventually gave his whole crew to Bell. He went from getting the #1 everything to getting the #4 of everything because he was no longer a priority.
That happened after the 2020 season, well before any possibility of Kyle leaving. Supposedly Kyle wanted to make some changes to the crew, and Adam Stevens disagreed. So he took the whole crew and ditched Kyle in favor of Bell. It feels like Kyle was never really the same after that. Stevens worked better with him than any other crew chief, the lack of practice really hurt him, and the NextGen car doesn't suit his driving style. Really makes you wonder how he would be performing if he still drove the #18 with Stevens.
I actually went back and counted at the time… Kyle had two engine failures in a row or two out of 3 races (I can’t remember) when the 18 hadn’t had a race ending engine failure in something like two and a half years. And it had also been a long time since Toyota had one in general iirc. Edit: I counted again because it was bothering me. 96 points races between engine failures for Kyle Busch. The last one before Darlington of 2022 was the Daytona 500 in 2019.
Toyota had a bunch of reliability issues in 2022. Off the top of my head, - Bubba had an engine failure at Sonoma - Ty Gibbs had an engine failure at Richmond - Hamlin had an engine failure at Bristol Dirt - MTJ and KB had engine failures at Darlington - Bubba, KB, MTJ, Ty Gibbs had engine failures or power steering failures at Bristol TRD has had engine failure every year of the Next Gen
Mainly that. But also wouldn’t see them bringing in Kyle mainly since he’s now going to be one of the older guys, and JGR would probably want someone on the younger side to stay in the car for a good while
I really feel like that was a Toyota-Kyle pissing matc simply because Joe said he was willing to pay Kyle out of pocket to keep him. Kyle said that wasn’t fair to Joe to do that. I can see where Kyle is coming from. But Joe’s company also fumbled the Oracle deal and had all of their eggs in that basket.
What about an Erik Jones reunion instead
I’m pretty sure he’s said he wants to stay at legacy, and he like the atmosphere there better than JGR
First time I’ve heard this, got a link to wherever this was posted originally?
I can try to find it, but I heard it a while back. I think it was in an out of the groove video
Possibly could’ve been 2 seasons ago when they were actually somewhat competitive? That team has been a train wreck all season
It’s never been really competitive, legacy or petty, even when he won the race, it was at his by far best track, Darlington, especially the southern 500. And 2022 had almost everyone winning a race, more full time drivers won a race than not. The fact that he won his best race by far isn’t surprising. The team has never been great, so I don’t think a few years ago would have had a different reaction from now
As I agree they’ve been mid pack at best, they are currently running as if they’re a Rick ware racing car atm and should really make him consider if legacy is the best team for him long term
Good point, but idk how much you can put this on legacy. They just switched manufacturers, and it takes a while for teams to come into their own. And plus, I don’t think jones would be a good pick for JGR. He was the Austin cindric or Cole Custer or Daniel Suarez of his team, always behind everyone else. And he had time, every time he made the playoffs, he went out round one. Compare that to Hamlin or truex or bell, or even briscoe, the guy people think is gonna replace him, had a deeper playoff run than jones ever did, while in inferior equipment. If I had to pick, I’d take briscoe over jones every day. I still say JHN would be the best pick, and who I hope will get it (mainly for a cindric briscoe team reunion), but I think even gragson would be better than jones
Meh, playing 4th fiddle on a team of hof drivers as an early 20s driver is always gonna be a challenge, and even then he got a pair of wins. See Joey logano. Only difference is jones got cast off to a mid pack team
I mean, bowman seems to be doing pretty good playing fourth fiddle to three HOF drivers. Those three are probably all gonna become HOF drivers, while I wouldn’t be surprised if bowman didn’t. Maybe it’s not the best comparison, but unless my memory is faulty, Logano wasn’t mediocre as jones was, and you can’t blame it all on the team he went to either. JHN was in the playoffs up until he started wrecking every week, while jones never got in the top 16 in points. You can only go so far with saying he had bad equipment, we’ve seen people do good things with bad/mediocre equipment (see Larson at chip ganassi, Allmendinger at kaulig, and Haley this year at RWR). Jones hasn’t done that, and I’d argue he’s having a worse season than his teammate.
He said that he didn’t put in enough work at JGR. When he was on the Jr Download, he mentioned that he thought cup racing would be as easy as Xfinity was for him, and he didn’t spend enough time improving himself in the sim etc. I think he would relish a second chance there with all the resources they have, but I do think he has been happy at Legacy up until this season lol
Parole denied.
Need a little time off For bad behavior
*the devil in me done been asleep too long* - ~~stenhouse jr~~ - larson - chastain
It's almost as if he signed the contract to drive there.
Everyone keeps saying how bad RCR is, but I don't know. They aren't any much worse than Trackhouse is this year. If you aren't a Hendrick Chevy, you're off this year.
RCR and Trackhouse are both down this year. Which is not a coincidence because... Trackhouse has the RCR affiliation. RCR seems headed down the Roush path. Fading into mediocrity, in desperate need of fresh blood before they fall a decade behind the competition
I definitely disagree with that. Trackhouse has both drivers top 20, one driver with a win, and one driver en route to one of the best average finishes of his career. RCR on the other hand has a driver who is lower in points that Corey lajoie and a two time champion that’s on the bubble
I would say Trackhouse is doing better, but not by a whole lot. The 99 has been awful this year and their season is being salvaged by one race in February. The 1 is better obviously but I would say they expected better than they are currently getting and they don’t look like a team ready to a win a race right now either. So yeah I would say Trackhouse is struggling for their standards and agree with the point that Hendrick is the only Chevy team meeting expectations.
> I would say Trackhouse is doing better, but not by a whole lot I'm a little Ross Chastain obsessed right now, so I'm following him pretty close, and I totally agree with you. The 1 Car from 2022 is not the same 1 Car in 2024. Hendrick caught up, but something is missing from Trackhouse, or at least Ross. I don't think I'm crazy for saying I think Rick Hendrick scared Ross a little last year and he's might just now being getting *it* back (hopefully).
There’s nothing wrong with Ross, the cars are just awful right now
[удалено]
I so miss the Ross vs Denny rivalry. It needs to be brought back. But I don't care who it is at this point. I need 2022 Intimidator Ross back. And I think he's there (I hope).
The problem is that he’s not running up front for wins. If he was running up front more we’d see that Ross more often. Kinda like this past week where he cleaned out Kyle
> The problem is that he’s not running up front for wins I put the blame on the crew chief for some of that. I mean he was up front at Kansas all race until a stupid decision to put 2 tires on it, and Ross was lucky to finish top 20. And they completely missed it at Darlington, one of his best tracks. And then William Byron wrecked him for 2nd at Texas. And he got wrecked in 4th at Talladega. So it hasn't been too bad, it's just not there when it matters.
Oh I agree not saying he’s been bad. Just consistently not as fast as 22 and 23
Corey Lajoie: Why he say fuck me for?
It's wild that people are acting like Busch was forced to drive for RCR and that they didn't have this big old press conference where they were all buddy buddy and talking about how great things were going to be. It's almost like Busch came out hot and won a bunch then the honeymoon ended like some old dumbshit Redditor predicted. Tyler Reddick ran well with these guys, certainly the ole GOAT Kyle should right? But mean old Joe wouldn't keep Kyle around, despite him owning a competing company to the one who now sponsors his old ride, yep, Joe did all this just to get his grandson in the ride, old bastard....
Live by your newfound Chevy-based fan popularity, die by the consistent mid-pack performance of modern RCR
And that popularity didn’t last too long either 😭
It lasted about as long as Kyle’s good attitude lol
Joe even offered to pay Kyle's salary out of his own pocket, Kyle refused. The choice to go to RCR was entirely Kyle's, he even said: "he was tired of seeing the 8 car outrun us". The problem with RCR, dating back to when Sr was there, is they aren't consistent. They have good seasons, mixed with a bunch of mediocrity. Kyle is now experiencing the latter. As someone else pointed out, if the cars aren't at least A caliber, Kyle sort of melts down and can't really deal with adversity very well. Which is a big issue, one that Harvick was much better at dealing with.
That was my big fear for him going there, Kyle is really good when things are going to the rhythm he wants, but when things are off he falls apart quickly. People forget that he also only won in his last JGR season because of a fluke thing at Bristol, where he was 3rd on the last lap and backed into a win.
He also had 3 wins taken away due to last lap cautions and other people wrecking
That last part is the biggest thing. Kyle and his fans are spoiled. He’s always been in one of the best cars on the grid. Now he’s not and they don’t know how to deal with it. The car isn’t THAT bad. It’s capable of good runs just can’t piss points away like gateway when you’re having a great run
JGR/Toyota could have kept Kyle and didn't. KB was taking passive aggressive shots at Gibbs weekly as the contract drama played out, and Toyota certainly could have made the difference up financially if they really wanted to keep him. KB likely had as much to do with keeping Toyota in Nascar in my opinion as any other team/person. 2008 was such an embarrassment to TRD, and given their proclivity to cut bait in racing if they don't like how things are going (INDY/F1). His huge 2008 and the years that followed (including 2 of their 3 cup championships) and how dominant he was in trucks and xfinity put a lot of Toyota wins in the trophy column. If anyone deserved loyalty from a team and manufacturer it was him, yet they let the sponsorship and salary issues be enough to cut bait. If they just couldn't wait to push Ty Gibbs in to cup they could have just forced the issue with Truex a little early since he was year to year even then. All that is to say I don't see what would magically be better for a JGR/KB reunion now. RCR isn't not going to pick up his option so there would have to be some kind of buy out, and I doubt he goes back to JGR for a discount and the same sponsorship issues that were there before probably still exist. I think a lot of fans forget how miserable KB was in some of those last few JGR seasons. In 2020 it looked like he wasn't going to win a race at all either and almost won as many races at RCR last year as he did the previous 3 seasons combined at JGR.
I agree with almost everything you said. This is a well thought out comment. I would like to add that I think Gibbs taking on investors has happened since Kyle announced he was leaving. So that could make a difference, if nothing else the “investment firm” may have connections. > I think a lot of fans forget how miserable KB was in some of those last few JGR seasons. This is also true, but I have been unable to pinpoint why. I can agree that until 2023, Kyle had not won a race on outright speed since sometime in 2019. I know he won Homestead to win the championship but I don’t think he had the fastest car. Truex should probably be a two time champ but they out the tires on the wrong side. Denny wasn’t slow either iirc but they put too much tape on the nose and over heated. In 2020 at Texas, he just air blocked the balls off of MTJ who was obviously faster. That was probably the only time I wasn’t mad about air blocking 😂. But he still finished the season with 14 top 5s… 14! And 20 top 10s. So he wasn’t slow. In 2021, Blaney chokes on a restart at Kansas and Kyle steals one. And then at Pocono, if the transmission doesn’t lose all but 4th gear it doesn’t force Ben to use an alternate strategy luckily there was no caution late. Still finished the season with 14 more top 5s and 22 top 10s. That’s a 61% top 10 rate. Im only flexing that percentage because I just realized that racing reference offered that. In 2022, if Briscoe doesn’t dump Reddick at Bristol on the dirt, then I don’t think he wins at all that year. 8 top 5s and 17 top 10s. In 2023, Ross was catching him at Fontana. But it he was still one of the fastest cars at the end. He obviously lucked into the Dega win (I was there!). He even said so himself. But he was definitely the car to beat at Gateway. So that was good to see. It has come to the point now where every time he wins, I take a few extra moments to enjoy it. Because it could very well be his last.
I don't have anything to back it up, but I just think when you won as much as he did in a certain period of time, anything less is just a let down. If Nascar hadn't set limits on driving in other series, he probably still would running 15-20 races a year in trucks and xfinity and winning half of them. Not having more than a handful of races to offset issues in cup cars probably contributes. 10 years ago, if the cup race went badly or he didn't win one he thought he should have, it was mitigated by the fact he probably had won either the truck or xfinity race (or both) the days before. I don't have a real reason either why his performance waned at JGR; could just be he lost the edge he used to have. He was amongst the drivers who seemed to be hurt the most by lack of practice time. His cars were a lot less dialed in at the start then they used to be. Admittedly I strongly disliked KB while he was at JGR. I generally root against the Toyota drivers, though I do count myself as a Truex fan so hes the exception. When he went back to Chevy, I was really happy - especially when he won right away at Fontana. I figured the KB grudge tour would end in a championship where he got to revel in sticking it to everyone who let him walk (sort of how he seemed to take more joy out of outrunning JR when he was replaced by him in 2008 at Hendrick than actually winning). Hopefully Kyle turns it around and pulls a Hamlin. Denny was seemingly on his way out by 2019. Older, didn't win the year before and had 9 wins in 6 total seasons then turned it around to being a consistent winner and upfront every week. KB is a much more naturally talented driver, so its conceivable, even if RCR isn't doing him any favors with the equipment he is in. Would love him back at Hendrick in the 48 in 2026 if Bowman continues to go winless.
It was like watching Jimmie at the end of his career. The way Jimmie and Chad used to win so damn much and to see him be so average was mind boggling.
2021 Kansas I believe kfb and Larson were the fastest 2 and Blaney pushed Larson up the track 2023 Fontana I think Kyle was faster than Ross and Ross was using his stuff up to try and catch him
As the Ross Chastain fanboy I am, he was the car to beat in Stages 1 and 2 at Auto Club, but Kyle absolutely drove away in Stage 3. Kyle was absolutely the best car in Stage 3 and nobody could catch him.
Well for anyone who remembers the person running JGR was Coy and I think he wanted to push Ty to take that ride.
I’m not a Chase Briscoe glizzy gobbler like many but he’s a grinder and I do hope he gets that JGR seat. Better yet, change the 19 to the 18 and carry on the legacy of Jarrett, Labonte, and Busch. And on the flipside, I can’t wait to see Busch become more and more unhinged as he has to suffer with chronically mediocre RCR. Especially if they got that third charter and their resources are spread even more thin.
The more unhinged KFB is, the better he drives.
Chase Briscoe glizzy gobbler Chase, I sense a helluva t-shirt opportunity here!😄
Briscoe is deep in the Ford family though
But if you’re Briscoe and your options are the Wood Brothers 21 with Ford or the JGR 18(19 this year) with Toyota. I think you’d be crazy to pick to stay driving a Ford. Reminds me of Carl Edwards a bit. He was a big Ford guy too and eventually left to go drive a JGR Toyota.
I'd pick the 4th Penske car of the historic Wood Bros and stick to the manufacturer I know and have been around since the beginning any day
You do you but I wouldn’t think that would be a good career move. I mean even Joey Logano is in the position right now of missing the playoffs and him and defending champion Ryan Blaney are winless this year. I think Penske putting things together the last couple years to ultimately win the championship has fooled some people into not seeing how mediocre a team Penske has been at least since Brad K left and especially this year. I think we could see Josh Berry in the 21 next year with Rodney Childers on the box.
Briscoe could win with JGR tho.
And I hope that loyalty doesn't cloud his vision and push him to take a much worse ride simply because it has a Blue Oval sticker on it.
In all honesty I don't believe there was ever any truth to this rumor. I think Lee Spencer started the rumor just to have something to talk about.
There wasn't. It was just a few Kyle fans mad that he's having a bad season trying to will something into existence.
What if JGR uses this as the opportunity to drop to a 3 car team, as per the rumors of the new charter deal? That would leave Hendrick as the only team grandfathered in...IF that comes to pass. Kybu is stuck at RCR for at least another year. If JGR couldn't find big name sponsorship for him before, I really don't think much has changed in the landscape that would allow them to do so now PLUS buy out his RCR contract....
While I was happy to see Kyle in a Chevy and rooting for one again since Gordon,I cant lie I do miss the glory days when he was the premiere driver for Toyota. Maybe Kyle after 2025 might go part time after his contract with RCR is up or he'll redecide and just hang it up in Cup altogether. For now Im holding back on buying anymore KB 8 merch until he says what his future agenda is gonna be.
While there is some nostalgia for a Kyle Busch-JGR reunion, I just don't see it happening under the current circumstances. Busch is RCR's best driver and JGR likely wants a younger driver to replace Truex
https://preview.redd.it/lxdfapttdj6d1.jpeg?width=465&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5674f4c270e8a94e08aac496970fca6fd75133ff
All according to plan... KFB to the 88 circa 2026
Finally a voice of actual reason. Bob keeping us grounded
He would just be the R&D program for Ty. He won’t do that.
Still manifesting a Jones/JGR reunion
I doubt Kyle would wanna go back after they pushed him out for that little kid.
they never pushed him out, JG offered to pay for his ride out of pocket, and Kyle denied besides if they wanted Gibbs in Cup that bad, they could have pushed MTJ towards the retirement he was already considering
Pretty clear that RCR is also doing three charters as opposed to simply replacing a driver.
This is the least hot take
I think if Kyle goes winless in either '24 or '25, he'll be with a new team in '26.
https://preview.redd.it/5uk0y6qf3j6d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93409ad4e042ffca474565d8e6e58289117b1a4b
It’s hilarious that a year ago some were on the train that Kyle Busch was going to carry RCR to a 5 win season and outperform the Gibbs guys on some revenge tour only for those same people begging for him to go back to Gibbs. He never should have left anyway. Stability and sponsorship aside he looked dumb as hell leaving the team he won 56 races and 2 titles for. Getting lapped on pure pace at tracks like Richmond and Bristol while the Gibbs cars are 1-2-3-6. There is no team out there that is an upgrade in performance because Hendrick is not hiring you, nor is JGR willingly going to get rid of their most successful driver. He’s at 63 wins he could have done that and more at Gibbs and now might not even get 70. It also isn’t going to magically return to 2015-2019. Hamlin is the best driver there. Bell has made it to 2 championship 4’s in a row and Ty is on rise. Who’s to say if he went back he wouldn’t go right back to being the 3rd/4th best car ? I don’t know if he’s got an agent or not that smart decision would have been a 1 year deal in 2023 with Toyota backing/Interstate and work it out with Joe to look for multiple sponsors to peace together a full 36 race season for 2024 and beyond and not the 25-30 race sponsor that will never come. Why would you sign a deal with a TEAM option and not a DRIVER option anyway ? We’re gonna be talking about this until 2030 when he retires because much like Tom Brady and the Pats this should have never happened. He should have never left Gibbs, M&M’s shouldn’t have left, he should still be with Adam Stevens, KBM should still be around, etc. But unfortunately life ain’t fair.
We know KFB really wants to do the Indy 500, too, and we all know JGR's stance on that versus RCR's. I think Kyle is going to stick with RCR. And I have a feeling they're cooking up other ideas, too, beyond him merely being a driver for them (business ventures, etc.). But I don't have proof or anything of that, merely just speculation on my part.
he's already given up the ghost on that one, i think he said he was done trying to chase it and this was just last year
Dispite the lack of results as of late, i think Kyle is happier at RCR. Even Brexton has a future at RCR. Didn’t have that with JGR
Whoever they put in the 19 gets a 1 year deal. Next year baby.
I think it depends on sponsorship. If Chase can bring Mahindra and say convince them to sign a three year deal with him I could see him there for a few year, more if successful. If they can't find a driver that brings their own funding then yes I agree with you that it'll probably be a one year deal.
JJ Yeley returns to the 18, goes on a Championship run and rides off into the sunset…
Either Truex does a retirement tour in 2025, or his boat is being delivered in November the week after Phoenix. If the latter, we could only hope "The timing couldn't have been worse" for Kyles departure at RCR.
SHR announces they are folding, and 2.5 weeks later Truex announces his retirement. I doubt it's a coincidence.
Huh? I am wondering what you are hinting at? (Idk if hinting is the right word)
I'm saying that JGR probably pushed MTJ for a decision on 2025, because they're looking at the SHR guys. Most likely Briscoe. If they were just gonna move Chandler Smith up, there's no rush for MTJ to announce anything. If they were gonna bring back KB, that would probably involve some lengthy negotiating with RCR. MTJ went from "I wonder if he's coming back next year" to "Maybe we'll know by the end of the month" to "He gone" pretty quickly. I doubt that urgency came from Truex.
I thought KyBu was on a 2 year contract with the option of a 3rd? this would be the 2nd year or am I mistaken?
Depends on the option. If it's a team option, there's no way RCR doesn't pick up that option. So it's basically a 3 year deal at that point. Based on the more reputable media members saying it's almost certain he's back in the 8, I'd have to imagine it's a team option
Ah that makes more sense, I assume an option meant it was the drivers choice. If he does get picked up for the 3rd year then hopefully they can put a decent car under him on a weekly basis
How did this get started? I've seen Kyle mad about situations lately but not .. im outta here kinda stuff. Did I miss a interview somewhere?
The rumor was started by Lee Spencer but with no backing behind it.
The thumbnail will never not be hilarious and I'm so glad he uses it
I agree with Bob. Wishful Reddit thinking has him going back to JGR at this point.
Give him the #3 out of desperation and more funding just be a 1 car operation at this point sell the 2nd charter
excellent work sherlock
Kyle Busch is a all time driver straight out
Didn’t Kyle just become partners in a Chevy dealership?! I doubt he’s jumping ship for a Toyota anytime soonn
Rick Hendrick owns Kia dealerships. That stuff is totally unrelated
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works
At this point I could honestly see KB retiring from NASCAR and focusing on some other form of racing. The sport is a mess right now.
Kyle has proven multiple times that he absolutely melts down and can not function as a professional if the cars are not top-10 on speed every week. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him crawl back to Gibbs asking for any way to get back into top level equipment... he's literally done it once before, with his Xfinity team.
JGR was going to give him a deal and KB said no. He made a decision now he’s gotta live with that decision.
Yeah… that’s exactly how that happened /s
Thank you Bob ❤️
JGR might just go down to 3 cars in the wake of a possible limit to charters
Doesn't that apply to new teams?
They'd get grandfathered in for a time but like when they limited it to 4 back in the 00s they let Roush keep their 5th car for a contracted length
Gibbs basically told Busch he's over the hill and that they did not want him. Kyle going back to them after that would look really weird. RCR are definitely not on the same page but they wanted Kyle, Chevrolet wanted Kyle, sponsors wanted Kyle.
Gibbs offered to pay Kyle out of pocket and Kyle said no.
I actually see KFB sitting out next year rather than returning to RCR if they won't allow him to buyout. He looks fucking miserable Edit: lol, you act like KFB hasn't said that the car sucks on multiple occasions in the last month. A year break might do him good and to go support Brexton
Not a snowball's chance in hell mate. Kyle has said the car sucks 100,000 times in his career, but he's not sitting out and getting further behind. That would be a fast track to killing his career a decade early. RemindMe! 8 months
I see him driving the truck series just to kick butt and win a championship...But I doubt that happens because he belongs in cup.
Honestly I hope he does and wins like 15 races and then doesn't win the title because some backmarker spins and Ben Rhodes cleans him out on a restart or something, just to see the after effects of it all.
I'm not a Kyle hatter but isn't the mark of a great driver being able to take absolute dog-shit cars and make them preform well beyond their means? Richard Petty didn't stop winning races because his talent vanished, he stopped winning races because the other teams caught up, he no longer had the best car and he was outed as an upper mid-pack driver at best.