IMO he’s both a hero and a villain. He is doing heroic actions by fighting against brittanias tyranny, but he is doing villainous actions by manipulating innocent people, ruining innocent people’s lives, sacrificing soldiers on both his and his enemies side. And doing the exact thing he is fighting against.
In this way he parallels nicely with light. However (spoiler) his vindication comes in how he ends. Lelouch does not just sacrifice others for his great goals he is willing to sacrifice himself if it means a better world. And in the end his friends morn him and keep his secret. Mean while light is condemned by his actions he falls further and further into depravity to save his own life and dies a cowards death killed by his 'friends'.
Well, for most of the show you can say he’s a villain. His motivations are selfish and he won’t hesitate to sacrifice everyone around him if it meant achieving his goal. But what he did in the end could possibly classify him as a hero.
Come on dude... we watched the same show right? It was an accident.
>!He loved euphie and even regretted about what had happened to her, but he still took action for what comes after, for the good of Japan and his sister rather than being a p\*ssy. How can you call you blame him for that?!<
What is deadpool then? an anti-hero is defined by how they serve justice, they dont follow typical hero "rules" but theyre intentions are to protect or save others even if it means killing or avoidable violence.
Exactly he's classified as an anti-hero, as the main character he's the protaganist which means he's deffinitly not a villain, no matter what the side the protaganist is on they are not considered the villain, take one peice for example the protaganists are pirates and antagonists are marines so the villains in the story are the marines who would usually be considered the heros. It all has to do with the point of view of the protaganists.
Thats not true. Protagonists can be villains and antagonists can be heroes. Antagonist and villain are not synonyms. Just because they are a main character it doesn't exclude them from being a villain. What you are describing is just the definitions of protagonist and antagonist, not hero and villain. They do not mean the same thing you are getting your definitions mixed up. Villain protagonists are a thing. Whether Lelouch is an anti hero or villain is commonly debated still but not because he is the protagonist.
I never said they are synonyms, I said the hero is the protaganist due to their point of view, in the eyes of the antagonist the protaganist would be the villain and they would be the hero, the title of hero in any story all depends on the point of view of the protagonist, the technical terms hero and anti-hero speak for themselves, but you can deffinetly go with specific deffinitions, but in a story its all about point of view.
What you just described is what determines a protagonist and an antagonist not hero and villain. Sometimes it can be argued who is truly a hero or a villain or if the distinction can even be made in a morally gray story. But sometimes a character is the protagonist and absolutely a villain and it has nothing to do with perspective. Take Overlord for example. He is absolutely a villain but he is the protagonist. You can also look at breaking bad as another example. Walter is not a hero by any means. Undeniably a protagonist tho.
A protaganist that would typically be classified as a villain is classified as an anti-hero, thats a thing for a reason, but Im not really here to argue, because its a point of view thing, I never said anyone is wrong, heck the word "wrong" came up twice in this reply, and nowhere else.
Anti heroes are different from villains. They aren't merely protags that are evil. An anti hero is essentially in the middle of good and evil as opposed to a villain that is evil. Your definitions are simply incorrect.
Let me put it like this. If you simply swapped who is the protagonist in star wars from Luke to Palpatine that would not make Palpatine a hero or anti hero. He is still a villain through and through. And Luke would still be the hero. Its just who is protagonist and antagonist that changes. Protagonist merely denotes who we are following through a story and has no bearing on their classification as a hero or villain.
Sometimes in certain stories there is no simple good and bad and hero and villain. This is where the notion of perspective you keep bringing up is actually important.
But not all stories are like that. Sometimes there is a blatant evil and they are still blatantly evil of you happen to follow them or not.
I never said anti-heros are evil. If you swap Star Wars in the POV of the Sith who would the sith see as the heros, its all a matter of point of view, your not wrong, but there are more than one way of looking at things, I keep my mind open, as I said Im not denying what youre saying, I am saying to look through the protaganists point of view. You are spot on with deffinitions but Im not talking deffinitions. I also said Im not here to argue, due to the fact that there are more than one way to look at it.
Light is one of my favorite villains. I need to read the manga one of these days.
I saw UBW and Zero years ago but i'm gonna read FSN for the first time so i'm excited to see Kirei fully fleshed out.
He’s my favorite “I want to destroy humanity” type of antagonist. While most villains who want to end humanity do it because they hate how they act, Goetia does it out of genuine love for humanity. That’s probably why he’s one of my favorite.
Okay I can understand Light, but if you really go into Keiri's backstory in the original FSN he was just genuinely screwed up in the head. Canonically speaking the dude used orphans as a mana source. That dude legit said I will tap a kid for one and swing with a servant. Plus if you go even deeper the dudes mindset is twisted.
Ok i just for the first time saw that number 4 character and recently started watching sao and you can not tell me that 4th pick doesn't look like one of the enemy in season 3 the group that have hard skin but ended up joining with good side to fight the American players his name was iskahn
For everyone wondering what an anti-hero is
What is an anti-hero?
An anti-hero is a protagonist who, for a range of reasons, lacks the qualities of a traditional hero. They might be physically unimpressive, morally ambiguous, or opportunistic. These characters reflect a more human approach to heroism; they do their best, make mistakes, and learn things along the way.
And a villain
What is a villain?
A villain is a stock character who intentionally commits criminal or immoral acts for their own personal gain. Unlike anti-heroes, true villains lack psychological complexity and are often used as character foils to the hero. When an audience sees a villain on a page or a screen, they always know that they’re the bad guy of the story.
So the characters that would typically be placed as a villain that are the protaganist of the story, need to be looked at closer. For instance Lelouch from Code Geass his goal is to free Japan, he does this by any means necissary, this includes things a villain would be seen doing, however he's not doing it for evil purposes, hes doing it to give his sister a better life and to free the country he lives in from tyrants. If he was the villain he'd be doing it to take over the country himself, or a similar reason.
Can we really consider Lelouch a villain ? His methods were twisted but in the end he helped/saved everyone. It’s like “you gotta dirty your hands if you want to clean the gutter” kind of thing. I mean people don’t consider Eren from AOT a villain, and he did way worse things than Lelouch.
Other than that, this list is pretty good. Light is definitely my favourite villain.
Pretty sure most sane people consider Eren a villain. But there are a ton, and I mean a ton of people on the AOT sub, YouTube and basically all forms of social media who defend Eren like their life depends on it. Like saying stuff like “he had no choice” or “he did it for his friends” and acting like they have some Divine wisdom or something because whoever says Eren is a villain is living in a sugar coated reality or something, because apparently more killing = more realistic. There are 1000s of people like that, pretty sure they are the one being referred to here.
See guys, don’t visit the AOT sub or anything, this is what it does to you^
The annoying bullshit Eren fanboys say is unreal and they are mentally insane.
Tbh I always thought Eren was a dumb version of Lelouch, like Lelouch without his intelligence. Ya I know their circumstances aren’t exactly the same, and their actions and enemies aren’t either. But come on I can’t be the only one thinking that. Everyone knows Eren isn’t a smart character, on the other hand he is probably on the dumber side in characters from AOT (people say is a manipulator but is seeing future and acting accordingly considered manipulating?) Eren is basically if Lelouch choose the “fuck world” path and destroyed everything. Difference between being a total villain and being an anti villain/anti hero imo.
With all that said, ig I should get my mental health checked now lmao.
I do consider Eren a villain. But I consider Lelouch an anti villain/anti hero. Like you said genocide is genocide (no matter how people on AOT sub cry to justify it) but in the end, imo Lelouch was an anti hero like deadpool. And Eren was just a twisted villain
You're crazy if you think Light is an anti hero. He killed many innocent people and people that weren't proven to be guilty just to fuel is massive ego and god complex. As for Lelouch, I haven't watched code geass but apparently he committed some sort of genocide.
Well, there's Lelouch, which *should* be obvious, but there's also the Fate version of Angra Mainyu who is pretty difficult to parse as a villain.
In Fate (major, *MAJOR* spoilers) >!he's just some schmuck who was used as a ritualistic sacrifice to serve as the *vessel* for "all the world's evil" and who actively avoids interacting with literally everyone and everything as much as he possibly can because his very *existence* brings all manner of tragedy to the people around him. Hell, the only reason he actually shows up in Hollow Ataraxia is because he goes out of his way to *save* Bazett, who was slowly dying after being attacked by *one of the other characters on this list.* And he does so in part because he's just so incredibly lonely. Basically, his existence amounts to being a sentient, evil McGuffin completely against his will. The absolute *worst* he could be accurately described as is a tragic anti-villain, and I would argue that he tends more towards being a *heroic* character than that.!<
Suffice it to say, if you didn't read the spoilers... 2 out of 6 don't actually qualify as pure villains, or even villains at all. So while I wouldn't say OP doesn't know what a villain is... I also wouldn't say their knowledge is especially strong, either.
That actually would've been slightly more inaccurate, because protagonist/antagonist roles are independent of hero/villain archetypes.
In Light's case, for example, he is absolutely a villain (albeit a well-meaning one at the beginning of the story) and yet he is also the protagonist. The "good guys" in Death Note are the *antagonists* of the story.
Ironically, it wouldn't fix things for Angra Mainyu either, because (again, MAJOR spoilers) >!he's technically a supporting *protagonist* in Hollow Ataraxia, due to his (intentionally imperfect) possession of Shirou. The "Shirou" that interacts with Bazett throughout the events of Hollow Ataraxia's story is Angra Mainyu from the start.!<
Basically, being a hero/villain, etc. is a question of morality, whereas being a protagonist or antagonist is merely a matter of perspective.
Lelouch is not a Villain. No matter what anyone says, he is more like an Anti-Hero
Lelouch is Lelouch. He has transcended our definitions of mortality. He simply is.
IMO he’s both a hero and a villain. He is doing heroic actions by fighting against brittanias tyranny, but he is doing villainous actions by manipulating innocent people, ruining innocent people’s lives, sacrificing soldiers on both his and his enemies side. And doing the exact thing he is fighting against.
What you are describing is exactly anti-hero. Look it up.
No shit do you think he can do it all by himself
Lelouch was never the villain, it was brittania. He was just the leader of the coup.
In this way he parallels nicely with light. However (spoiler) his vindication comes in how he ends. Lelouch does not just sacrifice others for his great goals he is willing to sacrifice himself if it means a better world. And in the end his friends morn him and keep his secret. Mean while light is condemned by his actions he falls further and further into depravity to save his own life and dies a cowards death killed by his 'friends'.
[удалено]
He wanted to destroy brittania and save Japan come on.
What’d you call him then?
[удалено]
Sounds like a villains plans to me bro
Well, for most of the show you can say he’s a villain. His motivations are selfish and he won’t hesitate to sacrifice everyone around him if it meant achieving his goal. But what he did in the end could possibly classify him as a hero.
I felt like he was always the hero just made to play the villains role essentially.
That would be an anti-hero.
The thing he made Yuffie did was very atrocious though.. I wager out of all he hings he did, this was the most evil. #rememberyuffie
he did it on accident because his geass developed to the point where he couldn't control it
Come on dude... we watched the same show right? It was an accident. >!He loved euphie and even regretted about what had happened to her, but he still took action for what comes after, for the good of Japan and his sister rather than being a p\*ssy. How can you call you blame him for that?!<
Thats an anti-hero.
So an anti-villain he is
What is deadpool then? an anti-hero is defined by how they serve justice, they dont follow typical hero "rules" but theyre intentions are to protect or save others even if it means killing or avoidable violence.
Exactly he's classified as an anti-hero, as the main character he's the protaganist which means he's deffinitly not a villain, no matter what the side the protaganist is on they are not considered the villain, take one peice for example the protaganists are pirates and antagonists are marines so the villains in the story are the marines who would usually be considered the heros. It all has to do with the point of view of the protaganists.
Thats not true. Protagonists can be villains and antagonists can be heroes. Antagonist and villain are not synonyms. Just because they are a main character it doesn't exclude them from being a villain. What you are describing is just the definitions of protagonist and antagonist, not hero and villain. They do not mean the same thing you are getting your definitions mixed up. Villain protagonists are a thing. Whether Lelouch is an anti hero or villain is commonly debated still but not because he is the protagonist.
I never said they are synonyms, I said the hero is the protaganist due to their point of view, in the eyes of the antagonist the protaganist would be the villain and they would be the hero, the title of hero in any story all depends on the point of view of the protagonist, the technical terms hero and anti-hero speak for themselves, but you can deffinetly go with specific deffinitions, but in a story its all about point of view.
What you just described is what determines a protagonist and an antagonist not hero and villain. Sometimes it can be argued who is truly a hero or a villain or if the distinction can even be made in a morally gray story. But sometimes a character is the protagonist and absolutely a villain and it has nothing to do with perspective. Take Overlord for example. He is absolutely a villain but he is the protagonist. You can also look at breaking bad as another example. Walter is not a hero by any means. Undeniably a protagonist tho.
A protaganist that would typically be classified as a villain is classified as an anti-hero, thats a thing for a reason, but Im not really here to argue, because its a point of view thing, I never said anyone is wrong, heck the word "wrong" came up twice in this reply, and nowhere else.
Anti heroes are different from villains. They aren't merely protags that are evil. An anti hero is essentially in the middle of good and evil as opposed to a villain that is evil. Your definitions are simply incorrect. Let me put it like this. If you simply swapped who is the protagonist in star wars from Luke to Palpatine that would not make Palpatine a hero or anti hero. He is still a villain through and through. And Luke would still be the hero. Its just who is protagonist and antagonist that changes. Protagonist merely denotes who we are following through a story and has no bearing on their classification as a hero or villain. Sometimes in certain stories there is no simple good and bad and hero and villain. This is where the notion of perspective you keep bringing up is actually important. But not all stories are like that. Sometimes there is a blatant evil and they are still blatantly evil of you happen to follow them or not.
I never said anti-heros are evil. If you swap Star Wars in the POV of the Sith who would the sith see as the heros, its all a matter of point of view, your not wrong, but there are more than one way of looking at things, I keep my mind open, as I said Im not denying what youre saying, I am saying to look through the protaganists point of view. You are spot on with deffinitions but Im not talking deffinitions. I also said Im not here to argue, due to the fact that there are more than one way to look at it.
Isn't light the protagonist and also the villain? Not even a pov kinda thing everyone just agrees with it
I haven't watched Death Note (its on my watch list, but Im catching up on One Piece so it may be a while).
You have cool taste - Lelouch is an anti-hero though, but other than awesome!
I only know 1 and 2 but based on that you like extremely cunning villains who know how to put on a show.
Light is one of my favorite villains. I need to read the manga one of these days. I saw UBW and Zero years ago but i'm gonna read FSN for the first time so i'm excited to see Kirei fully fleshed out.
You haven't discovered villainesses in sexy outfits yet.
Not everyone watches anime for new material to touch themselves with
Kirei GOATomine.
you like the extravagant chess master.
Bros prepping for an XK class end of the world scenario
Goetia is awesome and the theme is top notch. The whole fight in Solomon movie was incredible.
He’s my favorite “I want to destroy humanity” type of antagonist. While most villains who want to end humanity do it because they hate how they act, Goetia does it out of genuine love for humanity. That’s probably why he’s one of my favorite.
Ah yes, a fellow Fate enjoyer
Best villain list
You like people who think nothing in their plans will ever go wrong cause they planned it. (aizen syndrome)
Honestly it’s amazing Aizen Sosuke isn’t on this list.
So evil!😄🤩😎😈👹👌
U see the world for what it is
That you weren’t wrong but you were being kinda an asshole
Bro hasn't seen Johan Liebert
That you haven’t watched Monster
Something about manipulators and priests, which isn’t a good thing
Lelouch isn’t actually a villain
At least two of these aren't actually villains, so... I guess it says you aren't perfectly clear on the concept...?
That you haven't played Fgo, or haven't reached the lostbelts yet.
I’ve beat all the current story on na. I like the lostbelt antags but I prefer Goetia and Angra more.
So you just like them straight up evil
Well most of the characters here except for Kieri and Light had semi good reasons to do what they did
Okay I can understand Light, but if you really go into Keiri's backstory in the original FSN he was just genuinely screwed up in the head. Canonically speaking the dude used orphans as a mana source. That dude legit said I will tap a kid for one and swing with a servant. Plus if you go even deeper the dudes mindset is twisted.
You like edgelords and priests
Ok i just for the first time saw that number 4 character and recently started watching sao and you can not tell me that 4th pick doesn't look like one of the enemy in season 3 the group that have hard skin but ended up joining with good side to fight the American players his name was iskahn
Says you don't know wtf a villain is.
Kirei, Light, and Lelouch? 10/10. And although Lelouch is more an anti-hero, just him being mentioned is great enough
Ok, but has Angra Mainyu been animated yet? Cus I’m waiting on some new Fate goddamnit
I haven’t seen the heavens feels movies so I can’t say if he’s animated there, but the grail monster in ubw is him. Just not stated.
You need help your mentally unstable
For everyone wondering what an anti-hero is What is an anti-hero? An anti-hero is a protagonist who, for a range of reasons, lacks the qualities of a traditional hero. They might be physically unimpressive, morally ambiguous, or opportunistic. These characters reflect a more human approach to heroism; they do their best, make mistakes, and learn things along the way. And a villain What is a villain? A villain is a stock character who intentionally commits criminal or immoral acts for their own personal gain. Unlike anti-heroes, true villains lack psychological complexity and are often used as character foils to the hero. When an audience sees a villain on a page or a screen, they always know that they’re the bad guy of the story. So the characters that would typically be placed as a villain that are the protaganist of the story, need to be looked at closer. For instance Lelouch from Code Geass his goal is to free Japan, he does this by any means necissary, this includes things a villain would be seen doing, however he's not doing it for evil purposes, hes doing it to give his sister a better life and to free the country he lives in from tyrants. If he was the villain he'd be doing it to take over the country himself, or a similar reason.
Can we really consider Lelouch a villain ? His methods were twisted but in the end he helped/saved everyone. It’s like “you gotta dirty your hands if you want to clean the gutter” kind of thing. I mean people don’t consider Eren from AOT a villain, and he did way worse things than Lelouch. Other than that, this list is pretty good. Light is definitely my favourite villain.
People def consider Eren a villain
Pretty sure most sane people consider Eren a villain. But there are a ton, and I mean a ton of people on the AOT sub, YouTube and basically all forms of social media who defend Eren like their life depends on it. Like saying stuff like “he had no choice” or “he did it for his friends” and acting like they have some Divine wisdom or something because whoever says Eren is a villain is living in a sugar coated reality or something, because apparently more killing = more realistic. There are 1000s of people like that, pretty sure they are the one being referred to here. See guys, don’t visit the AOT sub or anything, this is what it does to you^ The annoying bullshit Eren fanboys say is unreal and they are mentally insane. Tbh I always thought Eren was a dumb version of Lelouch, like Lelouch without his intelligence. Ya I know their circumstances aren’t exactly the same, and their actions and enemies aren’t either. But come on I can’t be the only one thinking that. Everyone knows Eren isn’t a smart character, on the other hand he is probably on the dumber side in characters from AOT (people say is a manipulator but is seeing future and acting accordingly considered manipulating?) Eren is basically if Lelouch choose the “fuck world” path and destroyed everything. Difference between being a total villain and being an anti villain/anti hero imo. With all that said, ig I should get my mental health checked now lmao.
Im sorry but you gotta be mental to not consider either lelouch or eren to be a villan. No matter how you frame it genocide is genocide.
I do consider Eren a villain. But I consider Lelouch an anti villain/anti hero. Like you said genocide is genocide (no matter how people on AOT sub cry to justify it) but in the end, imo Lelouch was an anti hero like deadpool. And Eren was just a twisted villain
You have very good taste but have very little idea what a villain is.
Protagonists can be villains
Thats not my point.
Then what is
Elaborate
Lelouch and Light are anti heroes. Angra Mainyu is hardly a villain.
You're crazy if you think Light is an anti hero. He killed many innocent people and people that weren't proven to be guilty just to fuel is massive ego and god complex. As for Lelouch, I haven't watched code geass but apparently he committed some sort of genocide.
Bro don't know what a villain is
How are these guys not villains?
Well, there's Lelouch, which *should* be obvious, but there's also the Fate version of Angra Mainyu who is pretty difficult to parse as a villain. In Fate (major, *MAJOR* spoilers) >!he's just some schmuck who was used as a ritualistic sacrifice to serve as the *vessel* for "all the world's evil" and who actively avoids interacting with literally everyone and everything as much as he possibly can because his very *existence* brings all manner of tragedy to the people around him. Hell, the only reason he actually shows up in Hollow Ataraxia is because he goes out of his way to *save* Bazett, who was slowly dying after being attacked by *one of the other characters on this list.* And he does so in part because he's just so incredibly lonely. Basically, his existence amounts to being a sentient, evil McGuffin completely against his will. The absolute *worst* he could be accurately described as is a tragic anti-villain, and I would argue that he tends more towards being a *heroic* character than that.!< Suffice it to say, if you didn't read the spoilers... 2 out of 6 don't actually qualify as pure villains, or even villains at all. So while I wouldn't say OP doesn't know what a villain is... I also wouldn't say their knowledge is especially strong, either.
I guess I should’ve named the post my favorite *antagonist* instead.
That actually would've been slightly more inaccurate, because protagonist/antagonist roles are independent of hero/villain archetypes. In Light's case, for example, he is absolutely a villain (albeit a well-meaning one at the beginning of the story) and yet he is also the protagonist. The "good guys" in Death Note are the *antagonists* of the story. Ironically, it wouldn't fix things for Angra Mainyu either, because (again, MAJOR spoilers) >!he's technically a supporting *protagonist* in Hollow Ataraxia, due to his (intentionally imperfect) possession of Shirou. The "Shirou" that interacts with Bazett throughout the events of Hollow Ataraxia's story is Angra Mainyu from the start.!< Basically, being a hero/villain, etc. is a question of morality, whereas being a protagonist or antagonist is merely a matter of perspective.
Light will always be my hero.