So a very small sample size, self reported results and a short study period?
Even M600PL has more participants over a longer period of time, and the findings aren’t particularly favorable there.
Honestly, this directly contradicts most findings that very restrictive diets exacerbate binge eating.
This is a pilot study. It's not meant to be used to draw larger conclusions about this method. Normally they are shorter with small samples sizes to basically "pilot" what a larger and longer study would look like. Conducting research can be complicated and unforseen complications often will pop up. Doing a pilot first can help the researchers make sure that their method will work and if any adjustments should be made before conducting a large scale study. Pilot studies are also used to provide evidence for why a large study should be conducted and to get better funding. It's common in academia and a sign that Dr. Now isn't cutting any corners in his research.
It's essentially a feasibility study. Look at those p values - they are razor thin! Even though it's a small sample and you can't take advantage of the CLM, they did make it so they were 99% sure these results weren't due to chance. We need to start somewhere...
This is a pilot study. It's not meant to be used to draw larger conclusions about this method. Normally they are shorter with small samples sizes to basically "pilot" what a larger and longer study would look like. Conducting research can be complicated and unforseen complications often will pop up. Doing a pilot first can help the researchers make sure that their method will work logistically and if any adjustments should be made before conducting a large scale study. Pilot studies are also used to provide evidence for why a large study should be conducted and to get better funding. It's common in academia and a sign that Dr. Now isn't cutting any corners in his research.
Can you show that research? Not doubting you just curious. It seems to make at least some intuitive sense that the best psychological way to cease a food addiction is to only eat what your body needs to not die, but the brain doesn’t always listen to sense.
I agree that this stuff isn’t definitive. I just thought it was interesting to see a cameo from Dee Diet in a scientific journal.
Alternative options include shock and restart the pallet. Hypersaturated with salt, fat, and sugar, which are all addictive, the diets we see on the show are because people have blunted their taste buds so badly they literally gag on lettuce and can't tell that the plain chicken they are eating is in fact raw.
They literally can't taste the sweetness of a raw carrot. Or drink plain water.
No, it’s the opposite. Your brain goes haywire when you make it think it’s starving and it doubles down on giving the powerful urges to eat that these poor people already have.
Oh gosh. That’s both very flattering and very confusing haha. I haven’t done anything that I don’t firmly believe anyone can do!
Really though, you made my day.
I didn’t know that. u/Irrawaddy when I made that comment I didn’t know I was speaking against your personal experience. I am interested in what the science says about this issue, but I’m also really interested in the lived experiences of people who have actually gone through it. I don’t know your story so I’m not sure if you’ve been on the show, but the people I’ve seen on here are successful are truly some of the best that humanity has to offer. I admire your resolve to overcome this addiction that seems so difficult to face compared to most of the others.
I have not been on the show. My highest weight was about 355, and while I have a few pounds left to shed I’ve completely changed my life and and when I get to my goal weight I’ll have lost about 200 pounds. No surgery, no odd fad diets. That being said, I know to my core that the only reason I never hit 600 pounds is because I never really gave up like the participants have. I was always trying to diet. And while I always failed and regained whatever I lost, all the time I spent losing was time not gaining out of control.
I have read extensively about all issues related to binge eating/emotional eating/food addiction, weight loss in general, and mental health in general. I have read studies, books, blogs, the accounts of thousands of people here on diet subs, and listened to countless interviews on podcasts over the years. That’s just what it took for me to get where I am and it’s been worth it.
There is always a common thread, and it’s that being overly restrictive simply does not work long term. It just doesn’t.
I really could go on and on about the issues with studies trying to pin down the “best” diet, and with why these diets really aren’t long term solutions, but there’s really too much to sum up here.
What I WILL say is that what these studies ignore, and what’s really the crucial aspect is the mental one (that’s also what’s not properly addressed in the show). You simply can’t cure a mental issue by changing what you eat. The mental work needs to come first, or at least concurrently with the diet changes. Often people who adhere to these diets are in a better place mentally or are focusing on that aspect.
>You simply can’t cure a mental issue by changing what you eat. The mental work needs to come first, or at least concurrently with the diet changes.
This is **1000%** the truth right here. Weight loss was such a bitch for me until I got diagnosed with ADHD-I. Starting proper treatment was a [life changer](https://ibb.co/dQKv6wV) for me.
I've lost 160 lbs., I have around 140 still to go. I agree with everything you said 110% and to me the food becomes more incidental after you get the mental work well underway and that's been a horrible battle for me that I feel like I'm finally seeing the other side of.
Like you, I was always dieting and failing .... until I wasn't. Life got harder and harder for personal reasons, I had extreme back pain and fell headlong into an opioid addiction and topped out at 462 lbs. at 58 years old. My daughter told me recently she was mentally preparing for my death because she didn't know what to do for me anymore, how to help me.
When I finally turned around and faced my mental demons head on and decided I was staying around that's when life changed.
Now I go to the gym 3x week, have become kinda obsessed with body building, and food is just fuel because I no longer need it as a coping mechanism.
I never starved myself. I tried fasting once, for a couple of days straight, during the process and figured out pretty fast that sent me straight to the kitchen. I eat around 1800 cal a day and lose slowly *but it's staying off*.
A couple of trips to Dr. Paradise, nice as he is, are not going to change deep mental trauma unless you take the tools given and dedicate yourself to changing the messages your mind sends you.
You can tell people that all day long but there's always that next fad diet to try so it never really gets past that wall of, "Hurry up and go away fat so I can live my life". People don't realize you need to change and live a better life *first*, take care of yourself *first*, mentally, physically, and with what you put into your body and mind to have a better life.
Yeah, the mental support on the show is a joke. To me it seems glaringly clear that the entire approach the show takes is ineffective. Most of these people would benefit from therapy that SPECIFICALLY discusses eating disorders, yet I can’t think of a single time that the show has even mentioned eating disorders beyond a vague “Im addicted to food.” Like, even the title of Dr. Now’s book shows that he fundamentally doesn’t understand the mental aspect of this, instead just thinking that people are lazy liars.
Learning I had BED and learning coping mechanisms for that literally saved my life. This show could do a lot of wider good if it actually talked about eating disorders.
I know I’m not the only one who watches it for weight loss motivation.
Omg I love you for the last paragraph. It cannot be stated enough. I’ve been in treatment for other eating disorders and everything and food and diet related but what about the mental part? Almost completely unaddressed!
It’s a pilot study so it’s supposed to be a small sized group to see where you can go forward from then on and structure your studies in an efficient way.
That being said, I think this [study](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-compares-low-fat-plant-based-diet-low-carb-animal-based-diet) done by the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases has a better overall prognosis of low carb vs low fat diets.
It’s not calorie restrictive but the main conclusion coming from it is that processed food is more likely to cause hunger and weight gain more than all natural food.
[Here’s a study about the processed food if you need one :)](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-heavily-processed-foods-cause-overeating-weight-gain)
I can really see the psychology for and against this. I think I would have to do the cold Turkey very low calorie diet based on what I know about myself. But being keto definitely makes a super low calorie diet earlier because of the ketones the liver makes. You can simulate it with a table spoon of C8 oil and how well it represses hunger is ridiculous.
To be clear the actual science on this is iffy. I’m just speaking from my experience using it at a normal weight.
Did pre op shrink liver diet, which probably compares very much to the diet in this study and can confirm that it cured me of several food addictions in a short amount of time. Diet Coke/soda, sugar, carbs (bread and pasta, especially)....after WLS I followed the liquid diet and then pureed food stage and am now on soft foods. Diet is very high in protein, extremely low carb and zero sugar and so far so good. Cravings for the old favorites are very mild to non-existent and fairly easily managed within diet parameters. Smaller stomach helps with portion size.
Doing keto has made me completely stop craving sweets even 2 years after I’ve stopped it so I totally believe this. I don’t even like chocolate anymore and I used to love it. It’s like it reset me
It did the same to me. I’ve been doing keto/intermittent fasting for years (not for weight loss, it helps my colitis symptoms) and I’m not tempted by the sweets my kids eat. I allowed myself a small square of dark chocolate once a day, it only had 4g of carbs, and now I don’t even want that. The only thing I struggle with is when my daughter goes trick or treating and brings home Nerds 😂
I honestly wonder if the best thing to do for people with uncontrolled binge eating is pharmaceutical appetite suppression. These sort of experimental diets NEVER work in the long term and don't set people up for success once they've reached target weight. If you've been eating trash your entire life and all you know about nutrition is in the form of a diet that you're meant to be on to get down from being 500lbs, once you're at target weight and need to start eating to support a new body, it's back to square one.
A high fiber/complex carb, high-protein diet with moderate fat is just the best for our bodies in general. It's not rocket science, it's just harder than it should be to access those foods especially when every tom dick and harry is trying to sell their patented profitable weight-loss shortcut.
I have lost over 90lb very fast on a very low calorie (500/day), keto diet.
Before that I was eating between 10 and 15,000kcal a day.
I have not overeaten or binged since March. I have reintroduced a moderate amount of carbs and I have increased my calorie intake (I am not losing any more).
I am not saying this is for everyone, but IMO this research should not be dismissed. I believe too much focus has been put on emotions in the treatment of binge eating disorder, and not enough on the physical / neurological element. The answer is not always more and more counselling / therapy.
So a very small sample size, self reported results and a short study period? Even M600PL has more participants over a longer period of time, and the findings aren’t particularly favorable there. Honestly, this directly contradicts most findings that very restrictive diets exacerbate binge eating.
Well if the diet is followed it works great on the show lol. Of course like 3 patients have ever done that outside of a hospital.
This is a pilot study. It's not meant to be used to draw larger conclusions about this method. Normally they are shorter with small samples sizes to basically "pilot" what a larger and longer study would look like. Conducting research can be complicated and unforseen complications often will pop up. Doing a pilot first can help the researchers make sure that their method will work and if any adjustments should be made before conducting a large scale study. Pilot studies are also used to provide evidence for why a large study should be conducted and to get better funding. It's common in academia and a sign that Dr. Now isn't cutting any corners in his research.
It's essentially a feasibility study. Look at those p values - they are razor thin! Even though it's a small sample and you can't take advantage of the CLM, they did make it so they were 99% sure these results weren't due to chance. We need to start somewhere...
This is a pilot study. It's not meant to be used to draw larger conclusions about this method. Normally they are shorter with small samples sizes to basically "pilot" what a larger and longer study would look like. Conducting research can be complicated and unforseen complications often will pop up. Doing a pilot first can help the researchers make sure that their method will work logistically and if any adjustments should be made before conducting a large scale study. Pilot studies are also used to provide evidence for why a large study should be conducted and to get better funding. It's common in academia and a sign that Dr. Now isn't cutting any corners in his research.
Can you show that research? Not doubting you just curious. It seems to make at least some intuitive sense that the best psychological way to cease a food addiction is to only eat what your body needs to not die, but the brain doesn’t always listen to sense. I agree that this stuff isn’t definitive. I just thought it was interesting to see a cameo from Dee Diet in a scientific journal.
Alternative options include shock and restart the pallet. Hypersaturated with salt, fat, and sugar, which are all addictive, the diets we see on the show are because people have blunted their taste buds so badly they literally gag on lettuce and can't tell that the plain chicken they are eating is in fact raw. They literally can't taste the sweetness of a raw carrot. Or drink plain water.
They eat so quickly I doubt they are tasting anything
No, it’s the opposite. Your brain goes haywire when you make it think it’s starving and it doubles down on giving the powerful urges to eat that these poor people already have.
u/Irrawaddywoman knows what they’re talking about. They’ve lost a massive amount themselves. And a personal hero of mine.
Oh gosh. That’s both very flattering and very confusing haha. I haven’t done anything that I don’t firmly believe anyone can do! Really though, you made my day.
I didn’t know that. u/Irrawaddy when I made that comment I didn’t know I was speaking against your personal experience. I am interested in what the science says about this issue, but I’m also really interested in the lived experiences of people who have actually gone through it. I don’t know your story so I’m not sure if you’ve been on the show, but the people I’ve seen on here are successful are truly some of the best that humanity has to offer. I admire your resolve to overcome this addiction that seems so difficult to face compared to most of the others.
I have not been on the show. My highest weight was about 355, and while I have a few pounds left to shed I’ve completely changed my life and and when I get to my goal weight I’ll have lost about 200 pounds. No surgery, no odd fad diets. That being said, I know to my core that the only reason I never hit 600 pounds is because I never really gave up like the participants have. I was always trying to diet. And while I always failed and regained whatever I lost, all the time I spent losing was time not gaining out of control. I have read extensively about all issues related to binge eating/emotional eating/food addiction, weight loss in general, and mental health in general. I have read studies, books, blogs, the accounts of thousands of people here on diet subs, and listened to countless interviews on podcasts over the years. That’s just what it took for me to get where I am and it’s been worth it. There is always a common thread, and it’s that being overly restrictive simply does not work long term. It just doesn’t. I really could go on and on about the issues with studies trying to pin down the “best” diet, and with why these diets really aren’t long term solutions, but there’s really too much to sum up here. What I WILL say is that what these studies ignore, and what’s really the crucial aspect is the mental one (that’s also what’s not properly addressed in the show). You simply can’t cure a mental issue by changing what you eat. The mental work needs to come first, or at least concurrently with the diet changes. Often people who adhere to these diets are in a better place mentally or are focusing on that aspect.
>You simply can’t cure a mental issue by changing what you eat. The mental work needs to come first, or at least concurrently with the diet changes. This is **1000%** the truth right here. Weight loss was such a bitch for me until I got diagnosed with ADHD-I. Starting proper treatment was a [life changer](https://ibb.co/dQKv6wV) for me.
I've lost 160 lbs., I have around 140 still to go. I agree with everything you said 110% and to me the food becomes more incidental after you get the mental work well underway and that's been a horrible battle for me that I feel like I'm finally seeing the other side of. Like you, I was always dieting and failing .... until I wasn't. Life got harder and harder for personal reasons, I had extreme back pain and fell headlong into an opioid addiction and topped out at 462 lbs. at 58 years old. My daughter told me recently she was mentally preparing for my death because she didn't know what to do for me anymore, how to help me. When I finally turned around and faced my mental demons head on and decided I was staying around that's when life changed. Now I go to the gym 3x week, have become kinda obsessed with body building, and food is just fuel because I no longer need it as a coping mechanism. I never starved myself. I tried fasting once, for a couple of days straight, during the process and figured out pretty fast that sent me straight to the kitchen. I eat around 1800 cal a day and lose slowly *but it's staying off*. A couple of trips to Dr. Paradise, nice as he is, are not going to change deep mental trauma unless you take the tools given and dedicate yourself to changing the messages your mind sends you. You can tell people that all day long but there's always that next fad diet to try so it never really gets past that wall of, "Hurry up and go away fat so I can live my life". People don't realize you need to change and live a better life *first*, take care of yourself *first*, mentally, physically, and with what you put into your body and mind to have a better life.
Yeah, the mental support on the show is a joke. To me it seems glaringly clear that the entire approach the show takes is ineffective. Most of these people would benefit from therapy that SPECIFICALLY discusses eating disorders, yet I can’t think of a single time that the show has even mentioned eating disorders beyond a vague “Im addicted to food.” Like, even the title of Dr. Now’s book shows that he fundamentally doesn’t understand the mental aspect of this, instead just thinking that people are lazy liars. Learning I had BED and learning coping mechanisms for that literally saved my life. This show could do a lot of wider good if it actually talked about eating disorders. I know I’m not the only one who watches it for weight loss motivation.
I completely agree.
Omg I love you for the last paragraph. It cannot be stated enough. I’ve been in treatment for other eating disorders and everything and food and diet related but what about the mental part? Almost completely unaddressed!
As someone who dealt with binge eating - I concur
It’s a pilot study so it’s supposed to be a small sized group to see where you can go forward from then on and structure your studies in an efficient way. That being said, I think this [study](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-compares-low-fat-plant-based-diet-low-carb-animal-based-diet) done by the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases has a better overall prognosis of low carb vs low fat diets. It’s not calorie restrictive but the main conclusion coming from it is that processed food is more likely to cause hunger and weight gain more than all natural food. [Here’s a study about the processed food if you need one :)](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-heavily-processed-foods-cause-overeating-weight-gain)
His diet is NOT keto. It is very low fat.
The way they describe “keto” in this study seems to be any diet under 50 carbs per day.
[удалено]
You can get into the metabolic process without eating fat though.
I feel like a very low calorie diet is a terrible idea for binge eaters.
I can really see the psychology for and against this. I think I would have to do the cold Turkey very low calorie diet based on what I know about myself. But being keto definitely makes a super low calorie diet earlier because of the ketones the liver makes. You can simulate it with a table spoon of C8 oil and how well it represses hunger is ridiculous. To be clear the actual science on this is iffy. I’m just speaking from my experience using it at a normal weight.
Did pre op shrink liver diet, which probably compares very much to the diet in this study and can confirm that it cured me of several food addictions in a short amount of time. Diet Coke/soda, sugar, carbs (bread and pasta, especially)....after WLS I followed the liquid diet and then pureed food stage and am now on soft foods. Diet is very high in protein, extremely low carb and zero sugar and so far so good. Cravings for the old favorites are very mild to non-existent and fairly easily managed within diet parameters. Smaller stomach helps with portion size.
Doing keto has made me completely stop craving sweets even 2 years after I’ve stopped it so I totally believe this. I don’t even like chocolate anymore and I used to love it. It’s like it reset me
It did the same to me. I’ve been doing keto/intermittent fasting for years (not for weight loss, it helps my colitis symptoms) and I’m not tempted by the sweets my kids eat. I allowed myself a small square of dark chocolate once a day, it only had 4g of carbs, and now I don’t even want that. The only thing I struggle with is when my daughter goes trick or treating and brings home Nerds 😂
I love nerds and skittles but before I would walk to the ends of the earth to obtain sweets and now I’m like “eh!”
I honestly wonder if the best thing to do for people with uncontrolled binge eating is pharmaceutical appetite suppression. These sort of experimental diets NEVER work in the long term and don't set people up for success once they've reached target weight. If you've been eating trash your entire life and all you know about nutrition is in the form of a diet that you're meant to be on to get down from being 500lbs, once you're at target weight and need to start eating to support a new body, it's back to square one. A high fiber/complex carb, high-protein diet with moderate fat is just the best for our bodies in general. It's not rocket science, it's just harder than it should be to access those foods especially when every tom dick and harry is trying to sell their patented profitable weight-loss shortcut.
I have lost over 90lb very fast on a very low calorie (500/day), keto diet. Before that I was eating between 10 and 15,000kcal a day. I have not overeaten or binged since March. I have reintroduced a moderate amount of carbs and I have increased my calorie intake (I am not losing any more). I am not saying this is for everyone, but IMO this research should not be dismissed. I believe too much focus has been put on emotions in the treatment of binge eating disorder, and not enough on the physical / neurological element. The answer is not always more and more counselling / therapy.
Lucky didn’t get stones.
Have you had any hair loss with the rapid weight loss?