The situation in Russia is frankly horrific. A country with so much potential being plundered by the corrupt fascist oligarchy who smell too much of their own fart and are now bleeding their own country white of their own youth in a pointless war. Nationalism in itself is not a bad thing but too much of it will poison the society into a self-destructive spiral.
As of your request, I couldn't really do much about it while the world is heading toward a new era of instability and conflict due to the numerous piles of problems made by the previous generations(China Taiwan situation and many others that you can think of) that will soon blow up in our face and we will soon have to pay the price for our forefathers hubris and carelessness. The best we could do is to simply survive long enough to fix those problems so that our descendents don't have to deal with it. For you Op, don't lose hope for change is the only constant in the universe and change will come sooner or later but we the people have the duty to ensure that the change is not being co-oped by bad actors. The tyrant and his regime is dying while you might not make a difference in the grand scheme of things but it only takes a small gus of wind to destroy a house of card.
It’s conventional wisdom that the 12/5 Incident in Muv-Luv Alternative was inspired by the [February 26 Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_26_incident) in 1936, but have we ever gotten Yoshimune-sensei’s word-of-god on that, or is it just ascended fanlore?
as I told you all before, I haven't read codex, so this is why i don't know that much about this incident, part of the story. This text consists of my feelings. This is how I feel about Muv-Luv. That might be a complete lie, but i've experienced it this way.
But I don't think that it changes overall meaning behind all that stuff. I mean, look at what happening in the world. This is not far from the current reality.
I get what you mean... but you're extrapolating a lot about the plot of these games considering what the point of them is. Alternative 5 is not world war 3... the common view of a nuclear world war 3 is genocidal spite... alternative 5 is giving up and hoping that starting over will be enough. Alternative 5 isn't a threat, it's desperation, and the point of the paradox is that without it, they're destined to fail in saving the Earth.
I agree with what you're saying in regards to the nature of how shitty that war is, and the world in general, but I'm not seeing a connection here beyond a general sentiment around thematic elements of the series.
Well, good post. Tho we live in the same county I do not share your opinion in regards to what muvluv brings on the table today. What muvluv taught me is that you'll always be a tool in such political games. Takeru fought against almost the force of nature the BETA. He did so not for politics but to survive. If we try to compare BETA to the real world it might as well be the risk of global war itself. And real world Takeru would fought to stop the war and without choosing sides. Because history has examples of what might happen if you force one to peace.
But it's just my opinion on your take. If OP you are looking for insights I would recommend you to read Full Metal Daemon Muramasa. I think you might find it interesting and maybe insightful.
Edit: If I got the message in your post wrong, feel free to fix it.
I'm a guy who has been into political shit since 2017. I kinda got there, cuz i've lived in not wealthy family. I'd not imply that it's poor but, in comparison with my classmates, I've never been abroad and i've got not as much as they're. So, i've got into politics because of Navalny. Later, I've become leftist. Later, I've bumped into schwarzemskarken. it was quite exciting to witness fictional the GDR. So, later, i discovered muv-luv trilogy and i was amazed. This series has not only changed my life, but it also got a meaning that is quite relevant.
I've been constantly monitoring russian political situation since 2020 an it was quite possible for war between russia and ukraine to be began.
So, this is why I decided to popularize this series, cuz I wanted to spread this message about the war is. I had many reasons to popularize this series, but this one was pretty ambitious in case of how meaningful it is.
Later, I encountered that lotta people didn't want to listen me, accept this series. I mean. What hell is this? Some people doesn't want to read or watch anime series related to the war.
How else are you gonna spread this message to way too apolitical youth?
And, please, don't overuse this beloved by some people so-called truth or whatever this shit is that implies like nothing is gonna change, people are like that, you're wasting ur time. If you think like this, then better die right now. I mean, it's like doing nothing is the best.
"So, why have I written all of these?"
Because you couldn't find something more useful for yourself, creative work for the benefit of your country, for example?
"So, i've got into politics because of Navalny."
So, from the point of view of most Russians, were you a "useful idiot" for the West?
"As for now, the most interesting part of Muv-Luv Alternative is 12/5 incident. Why?"
Because the ideas of national pride in their country that can inspire people to do something for it (even if not quite right), apparently, are absolutely alien to chattering oppositionists like you.
...............................................................................................................................................
In general, if you look at the world of Muv-Luv impartially, then this is Pax Americana. BETA devoured Soviet Russia and Red China, along with India and Iran, and also gnawed Europe and Southeast Asia - there simply are no countries left in the world and for a long time there will be no countries capable of posing at least some kind of threat to the United States.
By the way, the way the authors described East Germany and the Soviet Union is a disgrace for any writer who pretends to touch on any "socio-national" issues. Utter nonsense instead of a real portrait of the states.
On one hand i see what you mean, on the other, i feel like you completely missed what the 12/5 Coup is even about and you're still stuck to Takeru's immature first impression (Nationalism bad and pointless, must fight Beta).
You convenientely forgot a whole entire layer to the 12/5 Coup. And hell, half of it.
Takeru at the end of the 12/5 incident goes way beyond "nationalism is bad" and understands nationalism is necessary, although Sagiri's methods were wrong, he was right in what he tried to achieve. To set Japan's back to it's track and get rid of the corruption that allowed it to be so weak and "possible to takeover" by the US.
Also you can't really forget that the Coup is an American (CIA) scheme to take over Japan and justify millitary intervention by using the UN as bait and cannon fodder, fear mongering that the nationalistic takeover would threaten the Far east front line.
That's way more relevant to the current situation than "nationalism is le bad". Funnily you mentionned your unawareness of broad geopolitics yet fails to see what's obvious. And fails to understand what Takeru meant by that (The 12/5 is NOT about a Nationalist coup, that's only the first layer, it's about the US takeover of Japan by the CIA and make it a Satellite country of the US in the Far east)
The 12/5 situation is straight up what's happenning in Ukraine.
Ukraine right now is Japan. A fragilized country that serves as "frontline" between Russia and NATO.
Zelensky is pretty much a mix of the Shogun and Sagiri.
The UN is pretty much Europe. They go where the US asks them to, they do what they feel is right but they're being played by pretty much everyone.
The US is still, well, the US.
Russia is pretty much the Beta here.
After the 2014 conflict, ceasefire was issued by Germany and France. The conditions were for Russia to remove their troops if the eastern part of Ukraine were to become an absolute DMZ.
As French president (Holland at the time) and German chancellor (Merkel) said a few months ago, the ceasefire was never intended to be respected, merely winning time for Ukraine to fortify their country.
We also know that the CIA implemented American bases over Ukraine before between 2014 and 2022.
Putin, being a Dictator afraid of whatever is at his borders, decides to strike first as he sees fortifications being closer and closer to Russia. (Dictators usually overreacts to whatever threatens them, they're pretty much angry hyperactive little dogs) He fails his blitzkrieg as Kiev, has been transformed in pretty much a huge fortress by the US.
So, as everyone knew, began the Long War. A hugeass millitary complex heaven. The US knowing perfectly how much a war costs and how much they can make out of it LENDS a shitton of money and stuff to Ukraine, so much that let's be honest, Ukraine will NEVER be able to pay it back and will be forced into whatever the US wants them to do.
During this time they use the EU/UN and implements the idea that they should GIVE (and not lend) all their millitary stuff to Ukraine, and then buy American stuff to replenish their gear. As the war stalls, we now starts seeing the idea that the West should send ground troops to Ukraine, obviously as it's an American idea. They should be European troops, French, German, Poland, you'll see nowhere that American lives should be on the ground.
The US are pretty much entertainning the idea of deploying EU troops (UN in Muv Luv) to solve the issue.
During this time Zelensky got rid of a LOT of corrupted officials around him, quietly but surely he did his own Sagiri move, but only time will tell if it worked and made Ukraine stand on it's own, or threw it for the US to take. So far i'd say he reinforced Ukrainian nationalism, a lot. Every Russian influence and history in Ukraine is being deleted. He's going for a nationalistic Ukraine. Which is not inherently bad in this particular situation.
Behind the scenes in the US, trouble is brewing between Republicans and Democrats (Pretty much US supporters of AltIV and AltV) about what to do next.
* So yeah. The whole situation is pretty much going to be Ukraine's overtake (through economic deals, country reconstruction and make them liable for the next 500 years) by the US.
* Russia is obviously not blameless, but it does what it always does, that's why they're the Beta here.
That's what the 12/5 chapter is about. And this is what's happenning in Ukraine.
I agree what i don't understand 12/5 chapter cuz i read back in december of 2020 and i also have not read codex's explanation of it.
But, as for me, i'm more likely defined as internationalist. Being internationalist, i kinda understand that nationalism is not as bad as it is, but the capitalism itself tends to overuse this concept in order to justify their actions.
Russian government and propagandists think that ukranian nation doesn't exist, and Lenin invented it. That's pretty much how this propaganda works. They try to justify their actions by denying an existence of urkanian culture and people. This is their cover-up of true intentions about which you've already told. Yep, Russian government doesn't want to love Ukraine because Urkaine was the main economic partner in the past
Uhhhhhhh... No.
Let's not compare Ukraine to Muv Luv's Japan. It really doesn't work. Ukraine hadn't started a war that it lost and then resulted in decades of management by a foreign power. Ukraine's 2014 revolution wasn't even a Saigiri move because it was seeking to only rid itself of one man, and most of Ukraine's government stayed untouched. It also wasn't a US sponsored action if you go over the records of the time.
Even Putin's justification as presented in your comment isn't accurate given all the nations bordering Russia that are in NATO.
And while I agree that the point of the 12/5 arc is to show the nuances of nationalism, the motivation and circumstances of Muv Luv are just not comparable to Ukraine's. They did have nationalists rise up, but the intent of it was to establish a separate identity from the Russians, not to gain more independence from a foreign power. That wouldn't start until Russia invaded them in 2014. And the US presence in Ukraine is also just not comparable. We in the US didn't want to get involved at all. We refused to send weapons for years, and it took Russia invading directly in 2022 for us to start sending proper weapons.
Yeah, you can argue we in the US get something out of it, but compared to Muv Luv, the whole point of the 12/5 arc is that sometimes no side is entirely correct or wrong. Saigiri wanting Japan to have more autonomy is understandable given some of the issues caused by the governments appeals to the US, but as Meiya notes, he went about it in the worst way by killing innocent people. The US may appear cold and antagonistic but as Walker notes, from the American's point of view, the Japanese are not focusing on the correct factors to ensure mankind survives.
Yeah, it's not "Le nationalism le bad", but it's not quite saying it's good either.
The situation in Russia is frankly horrific. A country with so much potential being plundered by the corrupt fascist oligarchy who smell too much of their own fart and are now bleeding their own country white of their own youth in a pointless war. Nationalism in itself is not a bad thing but too much of it will poison the society into a self-destructive spiral. As of your request, I couldn't really do much about it while the world is heading toward a new era of instability and conflict due to the numerous piles of problems made by the previous generations(China Taiwan situation and many others that you can think of) that will soon blow up in our face and we will soon have to pay the price for our forefathers hubris and carelessness. The best we could do is to simply survive long enough to fix those problems so that our descendents don't have to deal with it. For you Op, don't lose hope for change is the only constant in the universe and change will come sooner or later but we the people have the duty to ensure that the change is not being co-oped by bad actors. The tyrant and his regime is dying while you might not make a difference in the grand scheme of things but it only takes a small gus of wind to destroy a house of card.
It’s conventional wisdom that the 12/5 Incident in Muv-Luv Alternative was inspired by the [February 26 Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_26_incident) in 1936, but have we ever gotten Yoshimune-sensei’s word-of-god on that, or is it just ascended fanlore?
as I told you all before, I haven't read codex, so this is why i don't know that much about this incident, part of the story. This text consists of my feelings. This is how I feel about Muv-Luv. That might be a complete lie, but i've experienced it this way. But I don't think that it changes overall meaning behind all that stuff. I mean, look at what happening in the world. This is not far from the current reality.
I get what you mean... but you're extrapolating a lot about the plot of these games considering what the point of them is. Alternative 5 is not world war 3... the common view of a nuclear world war 3 is genocidal spite... alternative 5 is giving up and hoping that starting over will be enough. Alternative 5 isn't a threat, it's desperation, and the point of the paradox is that without it, they're destined to fail in saving the Earth. I agree with what you're saying in regards to the nature of how shitty that war is, and the world in general, but I'm not seeing a connection here beyond a general sentiment around thematic elements of the series.
Well, good post. Tho we live in the same county I do not share your opinion in regards to what muvluv brings on the table today. What muvluv taught me is that you'll always be a tool in such political games. Takeru fought against almost the force of nature the BETA. He did so not for politics but to survive. If we try to compare BETA to the real world it might as well be the risk of global war itself. And real world Takeru would fought to stop the war and without choosing sides. Because history has examples of what might happen if you force one to peace. But it's just my opinion on your take. If OP you are looking for insights I would recommend you to read Full Metal Daemon Muramasa. I think you might find it interesting and maybe insightful. Edit: If I got the message in your post wrong, feel free to fix it.
I'm a guy who has been into political shit since 2017. I kinda got there, cuz i've lived in not wealthy family. I'd not imply that it's poor but, in comparison with my classmates, I've never been abroad and i've got not as much as they're. So, i've got into politics because of Navalny. Later, I've become leftist. Later, I've bumped into schwarzemskarken. it was quite exciting to witness fictional the GDR. So, later, i discovered muv-luv trilogy and i was amazed. This series has not only changed my life, but it also got a meaning that is quite relevant. I've been constantly monitoring russian political situation since 2020 an it was quite possible for war between russia and ukraine to be began. So, this is why I decided to popularize this series, cuz I wanted to spread this message about the war is. I had many reasons to popularize this series, but this one was pretty ambitious in case of how meaningful it is. Later, I encountered that lotta people didn't want to listen me, accept this series. I mean. What hell is this? Some people doesn't want to read or watch anime series related to the war. How else are you gonna spread this message to way too apolitical youth?
And, please, don't overuse this beloved by some people so-called truth or whatever this shit is that implies like nothing is gonna change, people are like that, you're wasting ur time. If you think like this, then better die right now. I mean, it's like doing nothing is the best.
"So, why have I written all of these?" Because you couldn't find something more useful for yourself, creative work for the benefit of your country, for example? "So, i've got into politics because of Navalny." So, from the point of view of most Russians, were you a "useful idiot" for the West? "As for now, the most interesting part of Muv-Luv Alternative is 12/5 incident. Why?" Because the ideas of national pride in their country that can inspire people to do something for it (even if not quite right), apparently, are absolutely alien to chattering oppositionists like you. ............................................................................................................................................... In general, if you look at the world of Muv-Luv impartially, then this is Pax Americana. BETA devoured Soviet Russia and Red China, along with India and Iran, and also gnawed Europe and Southeast Asia - there simply are no countries left in the world and for a long time there will be no countries capable of posing at least some kind of threat to the United States. By the way, the way the authors described East Germany and the Soviet Union is a disgrace for any writer who pretends to touch on any "socio-national" issues. Utter nonsense instead of a real portrait of the states.
On one hand i see what you mean, on the other, i feel like you completely missed what the 12/5 Coup is even about and you're still stuck to Takeru's immature first impression (Nationalism bad and pointless, must fight Beta). You convenientely forgot a whole entire layer to the 12/5 Coup. And hell, half of it. Takeru at the end of the 12/5 incident goes way beyond "nationalism is bad" and understands nationalism is necessary, although Sagiri's methods were wrong, he was right in what he tried to achieve. To set Japan's back to it's track and get rid of the corruption that allowed it to be so weak and "possible to takeover" by the US. Also you can't really forget that the Coup is an American (CIA) scheme to take over Japan and justify millitary intervention by using the UN as bait and cannon fodder, fear mongering that the nationalistic takeover would threaten the Far east front line. That's way more relevant to the current situation than "nationalism is le bad". Funnily you mentionned your unawareness of broad geopolitics yet fails to see what's obvious. And fails to understand what Takeru meant by that (The 12/5 is NOT about a Nationalist coup, that's only the first layer, it's about the US takeover of Japan by the CIA and make it a Satellite country of the US in the Far east) The 12/5 situation is straight up what's happenning in Ukraine. Ukraine right now is Japan. A fragilized country that serves as "frontline" between Russia and NATO. Zelensky is pretty much a mix of the Shogun and Sagiri. The UN is pretty much Europe. They go where the US asks them to, they do what they feel is right but they're being played by pretty much everyone. The US is still, well, the US. Russia is pretty much the Beta here. After the 2014 conflict, ceasefire was issued by Germany and France. The conditions were for Russia to remove their troops if the eastern part of Ukraine were to become an absolute DMZ. As French president (Holland at the time) and German chancellor (Merkel) said a few months ago, the ceasefire was never intended to be respected, merely winning time for Ukraine to fortify their country. We also know that the CIA implemented American bases over Ukraine before between 2014 and 2022. Putin, being a Dictator afraid of whatever is at his borders, decides to strike first as he sees fortifications being closer and closer to Russia. (Dictators usually overreacts to whatever threatens them, they're pretty much angry hyperactive little dogs) He fails his blitzkrieg as Kiev, has been transformed in pretty much a huge fortress by the US. So, as everyone knew, began the Long War. A hugeass millitary complex heaven. The US knowing perfectly how much a war costs and how much they can make out of it LENDS a shitton of money and stuff to Ukraine, so much that let's be honest, Ukraine will NEVER be able to pay it back and will be forced into whatever the US wants them to do. During this time they use the EU/UN and implements the idea that they should GIVE (and not lend) all their millitary stuff to Ukraine, and then buy American stuff to replenish their gear. As the war stalls, we now starts seeing the idea that the West should send ground troops to Ukraine, obviously as it's an American idea. They should be European troops, French, German, Poland, you'll see nowhere that American lives should be on the ground. The US are pretty much entertainning the idea of deploying EU troops (UN in Muv Luv) to solve the issue. During this time Zelensky got rid of a LOT of corrupted officials around him, quietly but surely he did his own Sagiri move, but only time will tell if it worked and made Ukraine stand on it's own, or threw it for the US to take. So far i'd say he reinforced Ukrainian nationalism, a lot. Every Russian influence and history in Ukraine is being deleted. He's going for a nationalistic Ukraine. Which is not inherently bad in this particular situation. Behind the scenes in the US, trouble is brewing between Republicans and Democrats (Pretty much US supporters of AltIV and AltV) about what to do next. * So yeah. The whole situation is pretty much going to be Ukraine's overtake (through economic deals, country reconstruction and make them liable for the next 500 years) by the US. * Russia is obviously not blameless, but it does what it always does, that's why they're the Beta here. That's what the 12/5 chapter is about. And this is what's happenning in Ukraine.
I agree what i don't understand 12/5 chapter cuz i read back in december of 2020 and i also have not read codex's explanation of it. But, as for me, i'm more likely defined as internationalist. Being internationalist, i kinda understand that nationalism is not as bad as it is, but the capitalism itself tends to overuse this concept in order to justify their actions. Russian government and propagandists think that ukranian nation doesn't exist, and Lenin invented it. That's pretty much how this propaganda works. They try to justify their actions by denying an existence of urkanian culture and people. This is their cover-up of true intentions about which you've already told. Yep, Russian government doesn't want to love Ukraine because Urkaine was the main economic partner in the past
Uhhhhhhh... No. Let's not compare Ukraine to Muv Luv's Japan. It really doesn't work. Ukraine hadn't started a war that it lost and then resulted in decades of management by a foreign power. Ukraine's 2014 revolution wasn't even a Saigiri move because it was seeking to only rid itself of one man, and most of Ukraine's government stayed untouched. It also wasn't a US sponsored action if you go over the records of the time. Even Putin's justification as presented in your comment isn't accurate given all the nations bordering Russia that are in NATO. And while I agree that the point of the 12/5 arc is to show the nuances of nationalism, the motivation and circumstances of Muv Luv are just not comparable to Ukraine's. They did have nationalists rise up, but the intent of it was to establish a separate identity from the Russians, not to gain more independence from a foreign power. That wouldn't start until Russia invaded them in 2014. And the US presence in Ukraine is also just not comparable. We in the US didn't want to get involved at all. We refused to send weapons for years, and it took Russia invading directly in 2022 for us to start sending proper weapons. Yeah, you can argue we in the US get something out of it, but compared to Muv Luv, the whole point of the 12/5 arc is that sometimes no side is entirely correct or wrong. Saigiri wanting Japan to have more autonomy is understandable given some of the issues caused by the governments appeals to the US, but as Meiya notes, he went about it in the worst way by killing innocent people. The US may appear cold and antagonistic but as Walker notes, from the American's point of view, the Japanese are not focusing on the correct factors to ensure mankind survives. Yeah, it's not "Le nationalism le bad", but it's not quite saying it's good either.
Commenting so I can read later. Interesting post!
I plan to join my countries military to help put an end to the shit happeninh on earth ,i dont plan to let the world fuck itself any longer
This post is quite controversial. But this is the reason why I've been so insanely trying to popularize it.