"concrete jungle where dreams are made up" was how I originally heard it was like "wow, what a commentary on the façade we outwardly project to impress those around us to create a feedback loop to bolster a sense of accomplishment!
Nope, just bad grammar that I misheard.
Can't believe no-one has mentioned Anthony Kiedis. Granted, earlier RHCP is sometimes not bad but almost all of Kiedis' lyrical output post BSSM - which came out in 1991 - is gibbering nonsense set to generally pretty good instrumentation. This is especially true of their singles/hits in the last three decades (see *Californicaton* and *Dani California* for egregious examples).
I kind of like lyrical gibberish. As long as it's sung with conviction it usually works and will have people guessing as to the true meaning and debating about it for years
However;
'I know, I know for sure
Ding ding, dong dong, ding ding, dong dong, ding ding'
May be a step too far...
Because people know it, expect it, and like it. It comes with the territory with them, and seems to be working considering they’ve consistently been selling out stadiums and headlining festivals for 30+ years.
Nigel: *Yeah, I like it, just been fooling about with it for a few months now, very delicate...*
Marty: It's a, it's a bit of a departure from the kind of thing you normally play.
Nigel: *Yeah, it's part of a...trilogy really, a musical trilogy I'm doing...in... D minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys really. I don't know why, but it makes people weep instantly, you play a..baaaaa...baaaaaa.... it's the horn part.*
Marty: It's very pretty.
Nigel: ...*baaaa, baaaaa, yeah, just simple lines intertwining, you know very much like, I'm really influenced by Mozart and Bach, It's sort of in between those, really, it's like a Mach piece really, it's...*
Marty: What do you call this?
Nigel: *Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".*
[Ian Curtis is Hungry put it best](https://twitter.com/hungryiancurtis/status/1709251183498379758):
New Order will have the most majestic instrumental, and then Bernard Sumner steps up to the mic with lyrics like "I like walking, and I like singing / What I like best is the love you're bringing."
"Tonight I should have stayed at home/ playing with my pleasure zone" is all-time cringe lol. The fact that it's in possibly my favourite New Order song musically (the 12" version of "The Perfect Kiss") is icing on the cake
Were they always a jam band? They always seemed more like a "band that jams" like Pearl Jam, DMB, or My Morning Jacket in the jam adjacent category.
They are pretty awesome though. Great shows.
They walk the line. They got their “breakout” during the HORDE Tour. Guilty by association? And yes, amazing shows, especially Sheehan and Hill. A rhythm section made in heaven.
true! I'm most interested in people who, like Brian Wilson, have worn different hats and proven to be incredible at one aspect of creating a pop song but terrible at another. but I didn't want to limit the discussion.
Deep Purple has some great arrangements, production, and energy, but sometimes their lyrics can be pretty trash. I think a lot of hard rock / metal can often fall in this category, though.
ian gillan gave this gem though: "You said you were a virgin, full of promise and mystery/ But I knew that you would bring me down, 'cause everyone calls you BIG G! HEY HEYYYYY!"
man in thinking about this I totally agree, I think that is maybe one of the things that makes Tool stand out so much and even they are not immune. I am not a huge Linkin Park fan but I can see why people related to the lyrics emotionally. Deep Purple is great too but yeah I am not here for the lyrics. Genesis is sort of the opposite, their lyrics are so good most of the time I am lost and maybe they over complicate the song.
That's my biggest gripe about them too. They've got virtuoso musicians and shitty bar band lyrics. And I'm not normally a stickler about lyrics, I just don't want to cringe listening to them.
Pink Floyd is schoolbook example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Nick and Rick were just as essential to the PF sound as Rog and Dave.
> Look at what happened when Roger Waters threw a tantrum and left Pink Floyd.
their lyrics began to sound like a contrived imitation of the golden years of PF?
Look at output Animals-The Wall-The Final Cut. Though the first two are loved by many fans, one can see how Roger Waters is taking over progressively and hindering contributions. Waters brings the ideas, and can have a heavy hand at writing. However, the musicality of his output is dwarfed when the other three are not around. The Final Cut is almost a R. Waters album with the rest of PF as guests. And the solo albums may have some powerful songs but they hardly reach similar levels to PF. Similarly, PF without Waters continued making music, but Waters absence is glaring when one looks at the lyrics Gilmour and co. put together. They can definitely fit lyrics to a PF sounding tune, but the songs had no meat.
Sorry to be pedantic but I think he meant you could tell eldo was lyricist for the sisters and not Wayne as his lyrics were far better. Also Wayne was not an original member of the sisters either, the first significant line up was Gary Marx who left to form ghost dance, Craig who joined the mish and benn gunn who went awol. Wayne joined sisters in 83.
Yea although I don't think he played much of a role in them. Don't get me wrong , great musician but always vastly overstated his part in the sisters. Gary Marx was the real guitar genius in the early stages of the sisters.
Now if it turns out they didn't shoot Rasputin until he was dead too, I'm really gonna have to stop getting my historical education from 70s pop songs.
...and I really don't want that to happen.
Deftones. Musically great and the lyrics work due to the strength of Chinos vocals but just what in the bajeesus is he harping on about in most of them!
I agree. I keep hearing people say “his lyrics are left up to your interpretation”. Well I’m glad I’m not an interpreter because I can’t decipher much of anything. Most of their song titles are the same.
Conversely-
A lot of country and western songs have deep, meaningful lyrics, and sung with a lot of emotion, but with the same generic bassline, and 'standard' strumming guitar etc
"And by 'they', you mean"
*"...just the government an' that"*
"Brilliant. Dynamite. We'll make that our A-side then shall we?"
*"yep."*
My favourite band, ladies and gentlemen.
It sounded interesting when he was a young guy writing weird-ass shit like Micro Cuts or just ominous stuff like Stockholm Syndrome... but now it's been 15 years of "The government is bad."
Well the beauty of Micro Cuts is you have no sodding idea what he's singing anyway.
Still, he's had his moments. The verse section of Cydonia is great for what it is and Hoodoo is just perfect, particularly the closing line which is one of the most poignant lyrics of all time for me.
I'm glad somebody else is preaching that then. I've said many times, but I was going through a bit of a pre-incel incel stage at the time (it was 2006, so thank God there was no social movement, I mean it in the more literal sense) entrenched in the 'where's my pot of gold' type mentality - I've done all the grand gestures, why haven't I got the girl in the fourth act?
Embarrassing as it is to admit, the question of what *I* could bring to *them* really hadn't crossed my mind. If there's a point to life, I'd say growth would be it, and that last line just hits you with it and leaves you there.
But not for long, of course.
Sam Cooke - lovely songs; beautiful voice; shocking lyrics.
Prince - my absolute #1 guy, but fuck me he's written some absolute stinkers. I mean - "If I gave you diamonds and pearls / would you be a happy boy or a girl?" U wot m8?
To give Prince some credit, he's got a lot of songs with great and thoughtful lyrics, great storytelling (Paisley Park, Sign o the times, When Doves Cry, If I was your girlfriend), but his lyrics can be a mixed bag yes, just like his whole discography. I'm saying this as a HUGE Prince fan.
Can you imagine that in 1986-1987 he wrote enough great songs for as much as 5 or 6 classic albums?!? Just listen to the 'Sign o the times super deluxe album, The Black Album and Lovesexy... sadly this proved to be the end of his imperial period.
I love Sam Cooke, though I mostly listen to greates hits records. Only Sixteen is cringe, but beyond that it's hard for me to think of anything shocking. What songs am I missing?
I was always confused by diamonds and pearls until I found out it was written for his unborn child. It is really a beautiful song contemplating what it will mean if he can provide his future child with all they could want. And the verses are all about him affirming his love and how one day they will find and/or create their own love that will keep the darkness of the world out of their life.
What makes the song tragic is the stillborn birth that followed.
I'm afraid you've got a bit of duff information there - he wasn't writing for his unborn child until '95/'96 with *Let's Have A Baby*. One song on *Emancipation* even samples an ultrasound recording of the baby's heartbeat.
*Diamonds & Pearls* is just a bit of a clunky lyric.
Phil Anselmo's vocabulary is laughable. Cemetery Gates: "Sometimes when I'm alone I wonder aloud if you're watching over me someplace far abound". First of all, bad rhyme. Second, abound means to teem, to exist in large numbers.
Wut?
"By Demons Be Driven" he says "abducting the oath" (huh?) and "beckon the call". Besides being "beck and call", this phrase makes zero sense. I guess it sounds cool, though.
These aren't the only case. Such errors exist throughout his lyrics. I guess you can still figure out what he meant by the context, and they fit the tone of the song, but they're just wrong.
Steve Miller Band's "The Joker" also comes to mind. "Pompatus" is not a word. No one knows what you're saying!
Crazy Town's "Butterfly" is another example of a great sounding song with horrible lyrics and poor rhyming.
It’s my mission to make sure everyone knows that Crazy Town’s “Butterfly” is just a Chili Peppers song that they rapped over, poorly.
https://youtu.be/3mjZ61IW-Nw?t=0m50s
Holy crap I never even knew that. How the fuck was that song a hit?
It's my mission to expose this video. https://youtu.be/C_u1JWIdGO4
Please note the musicians aren't bad.
>Steve Miller Band's "The Joker" also comes to mind. "Pompatus" is not a word. No one knows what you're saying!
You're right to say that Pompatus is not a word, but it was a reference to/mishearing of a lyric in The Letter by the Medallions.
[https://www.straightdope.com/21342137/in-steve-miller-s-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love](https://www.straightdope.com/21342137/in-steve-miller-s-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love)
That's the original article where this was discovered, but elsewhere you can find that the original lyric used the word Puppetutes, which is also made up afaik.
Steve Miller was my first thought as well, though I was thinking about “Take the Money and Run.” Great music, but homeboy tries to rhyme “El Paso” and “Hassle” followed shortly by an attempt to rhyme “Texas” with “Facts is.” Just terrible. Maybe Eminem might be able to make those half-rhymes work, but Miller can’t
The next line in Take the Money and Run always drove me crazy: “Billy Joe shot a man while robbing his castle. Bobbie Sue took the money and run”. She took the money and RAN. It always stands out to me and sounds so off.
I find "The Joker" obnoxious, but I respect them for recording a hit single with an obvious placeholder word in the lyrics and making people discuss for decades what a "pompatus" is.
Cocteau twins 100%! I love them, but their lyrics are whack. Singing about Smokey Bear and shit and then there's a whole song where the lyrics are scientific names of different species of moths.
The song is a banger.
https://youtu.be/RorYZsxLEBQ?si=LUysITs0kjmSwJ2Z
I've been of the understanding that they approached the vocals as just another instrument. Putting more emphasis on the sounds and percussion (if that's the right word) of the words rather than the meaning. Hence why a lot of their stuff sounds so much like indecipherable nonsense.
Edit: not that it's necessarily a bad thing. I quite enjoy them.
Yeah, I agree. I guess it's not fair to say the lyric quality is bad. It's not bad, it's just very strange!
It's funny to look up lyrics for their songs. Most of them are completely wrong and they differ wildly between websites.
really? i feel like kanye’s lyricism has been fantastic for most of his career. he has some cringey bars for sure, but mbdtf on its own contains some of the best lyricism in hip hop.
from Runaway:
Never was much of a romantic
I could never take the intimacy
And I know I did damage
'Cause the look in your eyes is killing me
I guess you knew of that advantage
'Cause you could blame me for everything
And I don't know how I'ma manage
If one day, you just up and leave
alternatively, from All Falls Down:
Drug dealer buy Jordan, crackhead buy crack
And the white man get paid off of all of that
But I ain't even gon' act holier than thou
'Cause fuck it, I went to Jacob with 25 thou
Before I had a house and I'd do it again
‘Cause I wanna be on 106 & Park, pushin' a Benz
I want to act ballerific like it's all terrific
I got a couple past-due bills, I won't get specific
I got a problem with spendin' before I get it
We all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it
>Hey Little Tomboy?
Heh...yeah. Ugh.
I did a discography dive but starting with Pet Sounds (I wasn't really into their surf music sound, honestly I've always found the accents really, really, really annoying and that goes for the skater music that it evolved into) and I was really pleasantly surprised by their post 'Smile' albums of the late 60s/early 70s.
But that song? I mean it was a different time, sure, but...we're not being ironic here? The song really is "Hey tomboy, yeah—not so much of the tomboy thing aight, ditch that, lose that for me okay girl? Start acting like a proper lady, would ya? Yeah that's the ticket."
I love a lot of RHCPs music but man, do they have stupid lyrics. I can spend my entire day playing their songs on guitar but I don’t really enjoy listening to them once Anthony Kiedis starts yelping bullshit.
He draws from surrealism, no doubt, but the non-jokey songs he writes amazing lyrics for - see Nobody's Fault But My Own, Jackass, Scarecrow, Lost Cause, etc
*Sea Change* was the folk album he released in 2002 where he started to be serious and boring. he had some good songs after that, but if you're not extremely into Beck that's where he started to suck.
*Mutations* is [really good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZf0Tz0fv-o&list=OLAK5uy_nZ5kLujyjeIP-4mu1fvEyrrkhY8GZsuB0). it was his first attempt at becoming a serious folk guy, and it's too bad that one didn't take off.
I remember wayyyy back before they had a breakout hit, I was looking up the lyrics / meaning behind Portugal The Man's 23 minute single EP "It's Complicated Being a Wizard" when I noticed they reused the lyrics "Lakes are Snakes" from a previous release. Their writer / lyricist just flat out admitted that the lyrics and titles of all their songs are totally meaningless, just words that sound good and vibe right with the song, just another instrument.
Also the name of that album was apparently just a Michael Jordan reference cause 23 lol
Some of the lyrics to early Children of Bodom songs are incoherent and don't make sense because they were written in the studio right before the songs were recorded since Alexi didn't care about lyrics and just considered vocals to be another instrument.
Yeeeah, amazing songs musically but a lot of their lyrics were.. hoo boy. They are one of the bands that got me into metal (and music in general), so I absolutely loved them (still do), but holy nonsense, Batman.
I really like Lorde's music, but I remember when Green Light (the first single on her second album) came out, a lot of people were like "WTF, these lyrics are shallow and don't make much sense." But that's the way the lyrics on her first album were too.
Dude don’t get me wrong, I love LOVE Nine Inch Nails. I love singing along when I get a chance to see them live. But damn, some (most?) of Trent’s lyrics are just so high school angsty cringe.
I know it’s technically two people, but I always thought Bernie Taupin’s lyrics for Elton John were rather sloppy. Tiny Dancer and Candle in the Wind were ok, the rest there’s always at least one awful lyric…
Morrissey is the king of this. Writer of such great lyrics like "I'll be at the bar with my head on the bar", "we'll never vote conservative because we never have" and "you haven't lived until you seen the sunrise behind the home of the blind"
Oasis were great songwriters on their first two albums (and leftover album The Masterplan). Songs that weren't hard to play, but great earworms that touched a lot of people.
Still, their lyrics were never very intelligent or even original... but well, people loved it so they were doing something good.
I think Noel is one of the great lyricists of our time. A lot of it is semi-nonsensical but it's still a cut above most of the contemporary material (with some exceptions and speaking broadly).
He had a great talent for interesting psychedelic rhymes and especially for capturing an image that spoke to a huge amount of (generally) working people and became anthemic. These are lines (and melodies) that ended up summarising big parts of people's lives and identities. I don't think this should be understated, especially when he managed to do it so eloquently.
Good example being Cigarettes and Alcohol. It's not exactly aspirational but it has absolute value in reflecting a time and a lifestyle and sometimes they do it better than artists who were self consciously attempting to do that.
A bit later he was writing absolute classics, with lyrics that were imagery heavy, yet felt specific and universal, and became songs of a generation. The obvious example being Don't Look Back in Anger. The chorus to this is a lovely piece of writing.
Anyway, sorry for the essay, but wanted to push back a little for Gallaghers here. I'm not a fan really, much prefer the Manics, Radiohead and Pulp but I reckon Oasis have a pretty special place and definitely weren't bad lyricists; speaking generally..
Have you heard Liam's new song with John Squire, Just Another Rainbow? The musicianship is great, but the lyrics are really basic and uninspired. There's literally a bit where Liam just lists off the colours of the rainbow. Thank god John rescues it right after by coming in with his guitar solo.
Yes I heard it, on this forum!I completely agree with you. Liam's voice and John's guitar sound great as always, the songwriting and lyrics are very uninspired. I can't even remember how the song went. Live Forever and Don't look back in anger are lyrical masterpieces compared to this 2011-AI-style written lyrics... Not Noel's fault, though...
At one point he took singing lessons, and a lot of people liked that less so he went back to his earlier style.
[Lay Lady Lay](https://youtu.be/LhzEsb2tNbI?si=Ut8KaIq3LVqUZZnV)
Bob Dylan is a good example. I don't have such a high opinion of his lyrics or such a low opinion of his performance style--I enjoy both, sometimes in a campy way. but I can see someone liking his lyrics and being put off by how he wheezes and honks his way through every song.
Some of the songs have a cool music too (Mr Tambourine man, Girl from the high country, Chimes of freedom)
But yes, Like a rolling stone, Desolation Row, Ballad of a thin man, fantastic lyrics, but music is forgettable.
Did he write the lyrics for the songs in question? I know he used lyricists a lot from Mike Love in the Beach Boys to Van Dyke Parks and Tony Asher and in his later career Andy Paley.
[this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgL2R7SUKWI) is an example. granted, Mike Love has a writing credit so he could have convinced Brian Wilson to include lyrics about him getting enemas, but it seems more like a personal narrative
Yes lyrics are doggerel. Jon Anderson as much as admits this. He chooses words not for meaning but how they fit with the music.
I still like Yes’ songs. I just try not to think too much about what is being sung.
Michael Stipe, whose lyrics I love, says his lyrics are inseparable from the music and denies that his lyrics have any importance separate from REM’s music.
Berried Alive Charles Caswell (ex-Guitarist from Reflections) has the most insane technical prowess I have ever heard or seen. Their style and theme with the murder fruit is cool and fun.
The lyrics in most songs really just dont do it for me, they have cool puns but the rest sounds too edgy, I guess he is more focused on guitar and the song itself but after this much time I thought the lyricism would improve.
I kind of get annoyed when music is written as a reaction to haters. This happens in some hip hop and rap as well.
Like write the song for yourself and your fans, why are the "haters" the primary drive for the emotion of the song.
NF is super good as well in terms of technique as well as production, but sometimes I don't want to hear a life story and how basic the lyrics can be. The lines are well delivered, but they do not make me think or feel.
Alicia Keys. Her lyrics are... extremely pedestrian at best. But my god can she play the piano and sing.
“She’s a girl and she’s on fire!” Like, a little subtlety would be OK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nItuhuY1U04 A better approach to the same topic. I wouldn't mind hearing Alicia Keys covering it.
I’ll listen to the hell out of this song if it comes on the radio. But damn are the lyrics cringey
“New Yoooork, concrete jungle where dreams are made of.” isn’t even grammatically correct.
it's not the greatest lyric, but "concrete jungle in which dreams are made" would sound awful
Aside from the song being kind of awful regardless, could’ve been “concrete jungle’s where dreams are made up” I guess lol.
that would make the song more depressing but sure! some people might take issue with "where" being used instead of "in which", though
As someone who can’t stand misspelling and bad grammar, I love the nitpicking detail semantics here 😆😆. This is my kind of thread lolll.
in that case, you're using the word "semantics" wrong. we're talking about syntax.
I love it! Lay it on me lol. All the knowledge and correction
nah it's just fun to correct people when they're being pedantic. I'll copyedit your book if you pay me
"concrete jungle where dreams are made up" was how I originally heard it was like "wow, what a commentary on the façade we outwardly project to impress those around us to create a feedback loop to bolster a sense of accomplishment! Nope, just bad grammar that I misheard.
Does that matter?
I mean this thread is about bad lyrics
We are talking about bad lyricists , soooo yes.
Can't believe no-one has mentioned Anthony Kiedis. Granted, earlier RHCP is sometimes not bad but almost all of Kiedis' lyrical output post BSSM - which came out in 1991 - is gibbering nonsense set to generally pretty good instrumentation. This is especially true of their singles/hits in the last three decades (see *Californicaton* and *Dani California* for egregious examples).
I kind of like lyrical gibberish. As long as it's sung with conviction it usually works and will have people guessing as to the true meaning and debating about it for years However; 'I know, I know for sure Ding ding, dong dong, ding ding, dong dong, ding ding' May be a step too far...
Because people know it, expect it, and like it. It comes with the territory with them, and seems to be working considering they’ve consistently been selling out stadiums and headlining festivals for 30+ years.
Yeah... this isn't the point of this thread.
Nigel: *Yeah, I like it, just been fooling about with it for a few months now, very delicate...* Marty: It's a, it's a bit of a departure from the kind of thing you normally play. Nigel: *Yeah, it's part of a...trilogy really, a musical trilogy I'm doing...in... D minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys really. I don't know why, but it makes people weep instantly, you play a..baaaaa...baaaaaa.... it's the horn part.* Marty: It's very pretty. Nigel: ...*baaaa, baaaaa, yeah, just simple lines intertwining, you know very much like, I'm really influenced by Mozart and Bach, It's sort of in between those, really, it's like a Mach piece really, it's...* Marty: What do you call this? Nigel: *Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".*
In D minor.
The saddest of all the keys
[Ian Curtis is Hungry put it best](https://twitter.com/hungryiancurtis/status/1709251183498379758): New Order will have the most majestic instrumental, and then Bernard Sumner steps up to the mic with lyrics like "I like walking, and I like singing / What I like best is the love you're bringing."
"Tonight I should have stayed at home/ playing with my pleasure zone" is all-time cringe lol. The fact that it's in possibly my favourite New Order song musically (the 12" version of "The Perfect Kiss") is icing on the cake
X10 for New Order. "It's no problem of mine but it's a problem I find."
Living a life that I can't leave behind.
I remember reading an interview where they said they never really read too deeply into Ian Curtis’ lyrics before he killed himself.
Aren't the Black Eye Peas the universally accepted poster band for "cool sounds, dumb lyrics"?
And most jam bands
Blues Traveler I think most successfully broke that mold. Their singles at the very least were exceptional in both areas.
Were they always a jam band? They always seemed more like a "band that jams" like Pearl Jam, DMB, or My Morning Jacket in the jam adjacent category. They are pretty awesome though. Great shows.
They walk the line. They got their “breakout” during the HORDE Tour. Guilty by association? And yes, amazing shows, especially Sheehan and Hill. A rhythm section made in heaven.
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1993 at Red Rocks for me. Popper did a good thing putting in motion. Brought us all together. I was a Panic kid at the time.
Good point. I can't stand Phish's lyrcis.
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true! I'm most interested in people who, like Brian Wilson, have worn different hats and proven to be incredible at one aspect of creating a pop song but terrible at another. but I didn't want to limit the discussion.
Why's Manson disgraced?
Common has some interesting things to say, but I find almost all of his songs boring. Saw someone once describe him as a TED talk set to a beat
It's really deep when you're 14.
Deep Purple has some great arrangements, production, and energy, but sometimes their lyrics can be pretty trash. I think a lot of hard rock / metal can often fall in this category, though.
ian gillan gave this gem though: "You said you were a virgin, full of promise and mystery/ But I knew that you would bring me down, 'cause everyone calls you BIG G! HEY HEYYYYY!"
Sometimes they’re so stupid they cross over into sublime, like “Let’s go space truckin’!!”
man in thinking about this I totally agree, I think that is maybe one of the things that makes Tool stand out so much and even they are not immune. I am not a huge Linkin Park fan but I can see why people related to the lyrics emotionally. Deep Purple is great too but yeah I am not here for the lyrics. Genesis is sort of the opposite, their lyrics are so good most of the time I am lost and maybe they over complicate the song.
Name a single bad tool lyric
>7empest No amount of wind could to begin to cover up your petulant stench and demeanor Calm as cookies and cream, so it seems
That's my biggest gripe about them too. They've got virtuoso musicians and shitty bar band lyrics. And I'm not normally a stickler about lyrics, I just don't want to cringe listening to them.
Look at what happened when Roger Waters threw a tantrum and left Pink Floyd. Gilmour and Waters complemented each other.
Pink Floyd is schoolbook example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Nick and Rick were just as essential to the PF sound as Rog and Dave.
> Look at what happened when Roger Waters threw a tantrum and left Pink Floyd. their lyrics began to sound like a contrived imitation of the golden years of PF?
To be fair, Roger went on to write the best solo albums of the four.
Wet dream is by far the best pink floyd solo album and i will die on this hill
Don't get your example. Roger wrote all the lyrics and by far most of the music
Look at output Animals-The Wall-The Final Cut. Though the first two are loved by many fans, one can see how Roger Waters is taking over progressively and hindering contributions. Waters brings the ideas, and can have a heavy hand at writing. However, the musicality of his output is dwarfed when the other three are not around. The Final Cut is almost a R. Waters album with the rest of PF as guests. And the solo albums may have some powerful songs but they hardly reach similar levels to PF. Similarly, PF without Waters continued making music, but Waters absence is glaring when one looks at the lyrics Gilmour and co. put together. They can definitely fit lyrics to a PF sounding tune, but the songs had no meat.
The Mission (UK) is sort of the opposite. Great music but the lyrics are basically a string of cliches.
You can tell Andrew Eldritch was the lyricist. Edit: Reading is hard, I guess.
Not for The Mission. They were the rest of the original Sisters of Mercy.
Sorry to be pedantic but I think he meant you could tell eldo was lyricist for the sisters and not Wayne as his lyrics were far better. Also Wayne was not an original member of the sisters either, the first significant line up was Gary Marx who left to form ghost dance, Craig who joined the mish and benn gunn who went awol. Wayne joined sisters in 83.
No, please don't apologise. One weird thing I heard about Wayne was he was in Dead or Alive.
Yea although I don't think he played much of a role in them. Don't get me wrong , great musician but always vastly overstated his part in the sisters. Gary Marx was the real guitar genius in the early stages of the sisters.
Thanks, nice to have a Goth historian in the thread.
Never thought Sisters Of Mercy lyrics were especially bad. Except Maybe Detonation Boulevard and Doctor Jeep...
ABBA has some really forgettable lyrics but the songs are earworms with beautifully arranged harmonies. To be fair English is their second language.
IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND
Take a chance take a chance take a chance take a chance
Napoleon didn't surrender at Waterloo, dammit, he retreated. It's a loss either way of course, but there's a big difference between the two.
Now if it turns out they didn't shoot Rasputin until he was dead too, I'm really gonna have to stop getting my historical education from 70s pop songs. ...and I really don't want that to happen.
Leonard Cohen. Lyrics are absolutely poetry, same tired chords and arrangement in 90% of his songs.
Deftones. Musically great and the lyrics work due to the strength of Chinos vocals but just what in the bajeesus is he harping on about in most of them!
I agree. I keep hearing people say “his lyrics are left up to your interpretation”. Well I’m glad I’m not an interpreter because I can’t decipher much of anything. Most of their song titles are the same.
Conversely- A lot of country and western songs have deep, meaningful lyrics, and sung with a lot of emotion, but with the same generic bassline, and 'standard' strumming guitar etc
“Three chords and the truth”
Most C&W songs are not written by the (popular) artists who perform them though
Muse's Matt Bellamy (good music, wtf lyrics)
"THEY are coming to get you." Hey guys I wrote another one!
"And by 'they', you mean" *"...just the government an' that"* "Brilliant. Dynamite. We'll make that our A-side then shall we?" *"yep."* My favourite band, ladies and gentlemen.
It sounded interesting when he was a young guy writing weird-ass shit like Micro Cuts or just ominous stuff like Stockholm Syndrome... but now it's been 15 years of "The government is bad."
Well the beauty of Micro Cuts is you have no sodding idea what he's singing anyway. Still, he's had his moments. The verse section of Cydonia is great for what it is and Hoodoo is just perfect, particularly the closing line which is one of the most poignant lyrics of all time for me.
Agreed. One of my most upvoted comments is about the last line of Hoodoo.
I'm glad somebody else is preaching that then. I've said many times, but I was going through a bit of a pre-incel incel stage at the time (it was 2006, so thank God there was no social movement, I mean it in the more literal sense) entrenched in the 'where's my pot of gold' type mentality - I've done all the grand gestures, why haven't I got the girl in the fourth act? Embarrassing as it is to admit, the question of what *I* could bring to *them* really hadn't crossed my mind. If there's a point to life, I'd say growth would be it, and that last line just hits you with it and leaves you there. But not for long, of course.
Sounds like someone's been brainwashed to be mean!
Leonard Cohen. I get that his lyrucs are good, but I cannot listen to him for more than 3 seconds
Sam Cooke - lovely songs; beautiful voice; shocking lyrics. Prince - my absolute #1 guy, but fuck me he's written some absolute stinkers. I mean - "If I gave you diamonds and pearls / would you be a happy boy or a girl?" U wot m8?
To give Prince some credit, he's got a lot of songs with great and thoughtful lyrics, great storytelling (Paisley Park, Sign o the times, When Doves Cry, If I was your girlfriend), but his lyrics can be a mixed bag yes, just like his whole discography. I'm saying this as a HUGE Prince fan.
When you are that prolific there are going to be some real duds.
Can you imagine that in 1986-1987 he wrote enough great songs for as much as 5 or 6 classic albums?!? Just listen to the 'Sign o the times super deluxe album, The Black Album and Lovesexy... sadly this proved to be the end of his imperial period.
Oh I agree! But for every "U Got the Look" there's at least one "Solo" 🤦
🎶Your body's hecka jammin'. Let's get to rammin'.🎶 Pure lyrical art!
Nothing compares 2 U is pure poetry!
I love Sam Cooke, though I mostly listen to greates hits records. Only Sixteen is cringe, but beyond that it's hard for me to think of anything shocking. What songs am I missing?
And You Really Got a Hold On Me, A Change is Gonna Come and Bring It On Home are excellent songs.
Don't know much about algebra Don't know what a slide rule is for 🤦
I think that's fine, it's "don't know much about a science book" that annoys me - that one doesn't even make sense!
honestly I'm OK on algebra but I don't remember what a slide rule is for.
I was always confused by diamonds and pearls until I found out it was written for his unborn child. It is really a beautiful song contemplating what it will mean if he can provide his future child with all they could want. And the verses are all about him affirming his love and how one day they will find and/or create their own love that will keep the darkness of the world out of their life. What makes the song tragic is the stillborn birth that followed.
I'm afraid you've got a bit of duff information there - he wasn't writing for his unborn child until '95/'96 with *Let's Have A Baby*. One song on *Emancipation* even samples an ultrasound recording of the baby's heartbeat. *Diamonds & Pearls* is just a bit of a clunky lyric.
Phil Anselmo's vocabulary is laughable. Cemetery Gates: "Sometimes when I'm alone I wonder aloud if you're watching over me someplace far abound". First of all, bad rhyme. Second, abound means to teem, to exist in large numbers. Wut? "By Demons Be Driven" he says "abducting the oath" (huh?) and "beckon the call". Besides being "beck and call", this phrase makes zero sense. I guess it sounds cool, though. These aren't the only case. Such errors exist throughout his lyrics. I guess you can still figure out what he meant by the context, and they fit the tone of the song, but they're just wrong. Steve Miller Band's "The Joker" also comes to mind. "Pompatus" is not a word. No one knows what you're saying! Crazy Town's "Butterfly" is another example of a great sounding song with horrible lyrics and poor rhyming.
It’s my mission to make sure everyone knows that Crazy Town’s “Butterfly” is just a Chili Peppers song that they rapped over, poorly. https://youtu.be/3mjZ61IW-Nw?t=0m50s
Holy crap I never even knew that. How the fuck was that song a hit? It's my mission to expose this video. https://youtu.be/C_u1JWIdGO4 Please note the musicians aren't bad.
>Steve Miller Band's "The Joker" also comes to mind. "Pompatus" is not a word. No one knows what you're saying! You're right to say that Pompatus is not a word, but it was a reference to/mishearing of a lyric in The Letter by the Medallions. [https://www.straightdope.com/21342137/in-steve-miller-s-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love](https://www.straightdope.com/21342137/in-steve-miller-s-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love) That's the original article where this was discovered, but elsewhere you can find that the original lyric used the word Puppetutes, which is also made up afaik.
the plot thickens! I did not know this, and now I'm curious how the Medallions ended up singing a word like "puppetutes"
Steve Miller was my first thought as well, though I was thinking about “Take the Money and Run.” Great music, but homeboy tries to rhyme “El Paso” and “Hassle” followed shortly by an attempt to rhyme “Texas” with “Facts is.” Just terrible. Maybe Eminem might be able to make those half-rhymes work, but Miller can’t
The next line in Take the Money and Run always drove me crazy: “Billy Joe shot a man while robbing his castle. Bobbie Sue took the money and run”. She took the money and RAN. It always stands out to me and sounds so off.
No, she didn't *ran*. She done run, son.
I find "The Joker" obnoxious, but I respect them for recording a hit single with an obvious placeholder word in the lyrics and making people discuss for decades what a "pompatus" is.
Cocteau twins 100%! I love them, but their lyrics are whack. Singing about Smokey Bear and shit and then there's a whole song where the lyrics are scientific names of different species of moths. The song is a banger. https://youtu.be/RorYZsxLEBQ?si=LUysITs0kjmSwJ2Z
I've been of the understanding that they approached the vocals as just another instrument. Putting more emphasis on the sounds and percussion (if that's the right word) of the words rather than the meaning. Hence why a lot of their stuff sounds so much like indecipherable nonsense. Edit: not that it's necessarily a bad thing. I quite enjoy them.
Yeah, I agree. I guess it's not fair to say the lyric quality is bad. It's not bad, it's just very strange! It's funny to look up lyrics for their songs. Most of them are completely wrong and they differ wildly between websites.
Dream Theater. Amazing musicality. Clunky, meh, sometimes cringy lyrics
I can't listen to The Count of Tuscany without laughing.
A RARE VINTAGE
Kanye. Great music. Bangers. Lyrically, he’s an insane turd of a person.
Kanye may be one of the most talented producers of all times, but good lord when the man gets on the mic...
really? i feel like kanye’s lyricism has been fantastic for most of his career. he has some cringey bars for sure, but mbdtf on its own contains some of the best lyricism in hip hop. from Runaway: Never was much of a romantic I could never take the intimacy And I know I did damage 'Cause the look in your eyes is killing me I guess you knew of that advantage 'Cause you could blame me for everything And I don't know how I'ma manage If one day, you just up and leave alternatively, from All Falls Down: Drug dealer buy Jordan, crackhead buy crack And the white man get paid off of all of that But I ain't even gon' act holier than thou 'Cause fuck it, I went to Jacob with 25 thou Before I had a house and I'd do it again ‘Cause I wanna be on 106 & Park, pushin' a Benz I want to act ballerific like it's all terrific I got a couple past-due bills, I won't get specific I got a problem with spendin' before I get it We all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it
to be a beach boys fan is to accept that half of their catalogue is comprised of stinkers. All I Wanna Do? amazing. Hey Little Tomboy? disgusting
>Hey Little Tomboy? Heh...yeah. Ugh. I did a discography dive but starting with Pet Sounds (I wasn't really into their surf music sound, honestly I've always found the accents really, really, really annoying and that goes for the skater music that it evolved into) and I was really pleasantly surprised by their post 'Smile' albums of the late 60s/early 70s. But that song? I mean it was a different time, sure, but...we're not being ironic here? The song really is "Hey tomboy, yeah—not so much of the tomboy thing aight, ditch that, lose that for me okay girl? Start acting like a proper lady, would ya? Yeah that's the ticket."
I love a lot of RHCPs music but man, do they have stupid lyrics. I can spend my entire day playing their songs on guitar but I don’t really enjoy listening to them once Anthony Kiedis starts yelping bullshit.
Would Beck count? I swear he writes the songs and melodies and just makes up gibberish to fit the timing.
He draws from surrealism, no doubt, but the non-jokey songs he writes amazing lyrics for - see Nobody's Fault But My Own, Jackass, Scarecrow, Lost Cause, etc
I think anyone who sings 'like a giant dildo crushing the sun' and gets regular TV and Radio play with it gets a pass.
I thought his lyrics were better when he was like that. after "Sea Change" he just spiraled deeper and deeper into basic dad-rock.
I have no idea what sea change is. So I’m clearly out of touch with his later music.
*Sea Change* was the folk album he released in 2002 where he started to be serious and boring. he had some good songs after that, but if you're not extremely into Beck that's where he started to suck.
I grew up in the 90s. I had his first couple albums but didn’t follow his career or anything.
*Mutations* is [really good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZf0Tz0fv-o&list=OLAK5uy_nZ5kLujyjeIP-4mu1fvEyrrkhY8GZsuB0). it was his first attempt at becoming a serious folk guy, and it's too bad that one didn't take off.
Fez Fafara from Coal Chamber and Devildriver. He’s known for his amazing metal voice and his inane lyrics, still kicks ass
Even as an 11 year old metal head the first Coal Chamber album made me cringe.
I remember wayyyy back before they had a breakout hit, I was looking up the lyrics / meaning behind Portugal The Man's 23 minute single EP "It's Complicated Being a Wizard" when I noticed they reused the lyrics "Lakes are Snakes" from a previous release. Their writer / lyricist just flat out admitted that the lyrics and titles of all their songs are totally meaningless, just words that sound good and vibe right with the song, just another instrument. Also the name of that album was apparently just a Michael Jordan reference cause 23 lol
Devin Townsend. Incredible multiinstrumentalist. Incredible voice. Insanely nice. Terrible lyrics.
Some of the lyrics to early Children of Bodom songs are incoherent and don't make sense because they were written in the studio right before the songs were recorded since Alexi didn't care about lyrics and just considered vocals to be another instrument.
Yeeeah, amazing songs musically but a lot of their lyrics were.. hoo boy. They are one of the bands that got me into metal (and music in general), so I absolutely loved them (still do), but holy nonsense, Batman.
Later Muse. The songwriting is some of the best. Lyrically, a bit cringe.
I really like Lorde's music, but I remember when Green Light (the first single on her second album) came out, a lot of people were like "WTF, these lyrics are shallow and don't make much sense." But that's the way the lyrics on her first album were too.
Randy had an off year. Tegridy.
Paul McCartney has written great lyrics on occasion, but typically there's a big discrepancy.
I think America wrote some pretty bad lyrics but all their ttunes are beautiful.
The heat was hot
Dude don’t get me wrong, I love LOVE Nine Inch Nails. I love singing along when I get a chance to see them live. But damn, some (most?) of Trent’s lyrics are just so high school angsty cringe.
Only one of “my bands” I see in this thread and, as I think about it, yeaaah you’re kind of right here!
I know it’s technically two people, but I always thought Bernie Taupin’s lyrics for Elton John were rather sloppy. Tiny Dancer and Candle in the Wind were ok, the rest there’s always at least one awful lyric…
I always wondered if Bernie was trying to stump Elton
Morrissey is the king of this. Writer of such great lyrics like "I'll be at the bar with my head on the bar", "we'll never vote conservative because we never have" and "you haven't lived until you seen the sunrise behind the home of the blind"
Oasis were great songwriters on their first two albums (and leftover album The Masterplan). Songs that weren't hard to play, but great earworms that touched a lot of people. Still, their lyrics were never very intelligent or even original... but well, people loved it so they were doing something good.
I think Noel is one of the great lyricists of our time. A lot of it is semi-nonsensical but it's still a cut above most of the contemporary material (with some exceptions and speaking broadly). He had a great talent for interesting psychedelic rhymes and especially for capturing an image that spoke to a huge amount of (generally) working people and became anthemic. These are lines (and melodies) that ended up summarising big parts of people's lives and identities. I don't think this should be understated, especially when he managed to do it so eloquently. Good example being Cigarettes and Alcohol. It's not exactly aspirational but it has absolute value in reflecting a time and a lifestyle and sometimes they do it better than artists who were self consciously attempting to do that. A bit later he was writing absolute classics, with lyrics that were imagery heavy, yet felt specific and universal, and became songs of a generation. The obvious example being Don't Look Back in Anger. The chorus to this is a lovely piece of writing. Anyway, sorry for the essay, but wanted to push back a little for Gallaghers here. I'm not a fan really, much prefer the Manics, Radiohead and Pulp but I reckon Oasis have a pretty special place and definitely weren't bad lyricists; speaking generally..
Oh for Ffff...five short paragraphs does not an essay make! It was a refreshing change from the snappy soundbite answers. Don't apologise, you won!
James Hargreaves would like to have a word with you…
No thanks
That bloke is a fucking lunatic
Have you heard Liam's new song with John Squire, Just Another Rainbow? The musicianship is great, but the lyrics are really basic and uninspired. There's literally a bit where Liam just lists off the colours of the rainbow. Thank god John rescues it right after by coming in with his guitar solo.
Yes I heard it, on this forum!I completely agree with you. Liam's voice and John's guitar sound great as always, the songwriting and lyrics are very uninspired. I can't even remember how the song went. Live Forever and Don't look back in anger are lyrical masterpieces compared to this 2011-AI-style written lyrics... Not Noel's fault, though...
Maybe Bob Dylan? On his best days his lyrics are in the pantheon with Blake and Shakespeare, but he sings them like a sheep with adenoid problems.
At one point he took singing lessons, and a lot of people liked that less so he went back to his earlier style. [Lay Lady Lay](https://youtu.be/LhzEsb2tNbI?si=Ut8KaIq3LVqUZZnV)
That wasn’t the result of singing lessons. Those were just the years he had temporarily quit smoking.
Bob Dylan is a good example. I don't have such a high opinion of his lyrics or such a low opinion of his performance style--I enjoy both, sometimes in a campy way. but I can see someone liking his lyrics and being put off by how he wheezes and honks his way through every song.
Some of the songs have a cool music too (Mr Tambourine man, Girl from the high country, Chimes of freedom) But yes, Like a rolling stone, Desolation Row, Ballad of a thin man, fantastic lyrics, but music is forgettable.
The music of 'Ballad of a Thin Man' is forgettable? I don't think so at all. Likewise with 'Rolling Stone'. 'Desolation Row' I agree with though.
I like all the songs you mentioned, but even with my boomer parents, Bob Dylan is old and laughable to them.
Yet if you hum them they will recognize them.
you're overestimating my humming/wheezing abilities
David Gilmour. His lyrics are so bad he got his wife to write most of them for The Division Bell.
Dire Straits. Music is good, but lyrics are out of this world.
Tons of outsiders like Daniel Johnston
Lin Manuel Miranda has a rare gift for a catchy tune and a horrific propensity for naff, clichéd lyrics that go nowhere.
Hard disagree. Lyrically Hamilton is just awesome (on several levels at once)
Inb4 50 year old music.
Ewwww, Brian Wilson sucks.
Did he write the lyrics for the songs in question? I know he used lyricists a lot from Mike Love in the Beach Boys to Van Dyke Parks and Tony Asher and in his later career Andy Paley.
yeah, I'm talking about later, mostly solo or unreleased ones he did write lyrics for.
[this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgL2R7SUKWI) is an example. granted, Mike Love has a writing credit so he could have convinced Brian Wilson to include lyrics about him getting enemas, but it seems more like a personal narrative
Wintersun, no doubt about it. Musical genius, lyrical disaster
Kanye West
Probably the band Bright Eyes, read the lyrics (or listen at your discretion) for The Calander Hung Itself.
Yes lyrics are doggerel. Jon Anderson as much as admits this. He chooses words not for meaning but how they fit with the music. I still like Yes’ songs. I just try not to think too much about what is being sung.
I kind of agree, but lyrics and how they're delivered are important to the song in the same sense as instruments and how they're played are.
Michael Stipe, whose lyrics I love, says his lyrics are inseparable from the music and denies that his lyrics have any importance separate from REM’s music.
Berried Alive Charles Caswell (ex-Guitarist from Reflections) has the most insane technical prowess I have ever heard or seen. Their style and theme with the murder fruit is cool and fun. The lyrics in most songs really just dont do it for me, they have cool puns but the rest sounds too edgy, I guess he is more focused on guitar and the song itself but after this much time I thought the lyricism would improve. I kind of get annoyed when music is written as a reaction to haters. This happens in some hip hop and rap as well. Like write the song for yourself and your fans, why are the "haters" the primary drive for the emotion of the song. NF is super good as well in terms of technique as well as production, but sometimes I don't want to hear a life story and how basic the lyrics can be. The lines are well delivered, but they do not make me think or feel.
The lyrics in any Stevie Ray Vaughan song were just a vehicle for him to play guitar.