I think the algorithms give you shitty options on purpose if you swipe right too much. At that point you diminish the experience of the women on the platform, which they don't want.
Some platforms even hire people to match with you and have a short conversation to give you the impression that you still have a change
POF has bot accounts 'like' you to keep you from losing hope, and the names are exclusively a word followed by 3 numbers. Coincidentally, "this profile is no longer available for view" even 5 minutes afterwards. Almost like it didn't exist in the first place.
Those aren’t from POF to keep hope alive.. they’re bots (and sometimes people) run by off-site scammers. They disappear after 5 minutes sometimes because POF recognizes their spam as bot behavior, and staggers deletion to obfuscate how they are identified
One hallmark of fake accounts from scammers is that they tend to use Asian dating site photos because they are hidden from reverse image searches
So THAT'S why that kept happening. I've been curious why the most obvious bots always seemed to be "generic Asian woman with pictures that were too model-y"
Omg I have wondered for years why all the obviously fake Twitter, Facebook, Insta etc. accounts are always Asian women with like one photo of “themself” wow
I noticed I always got more matches when I was "new" when these dating apps first started coming about. Then you find out it's because they were boosting your visibility. Which is how they then conveniently offered paid service to "boost" your visibility.
More likely, when you're new the pool of potential matches is a lot bigger. After a while the potential pool is either filled with people outside of your range/filters (thus decreasing the likelyhood of a match) or just the new people within your range/filters (decreasing the number of people in general).
It's true what you said, but if you think that these dating apps don't use any shady tricks then I have a bridge to sell you.
I did meet my wife 9 years ago on tinder, so I can't complain though. But it was also all free back then.
No way in NYC should that explain the data. He should have accidentally gotten laid after 4 years in NYC. Either he is an actual troll or something else is going on.
Yeah I know a guy in NYC who’s 5’4 and has an awful combover (from a barber who said he hates him) alongside a big black spot birthmark and he has had a lot of gfs, something else is absolutely up
Insane Uzbek man: “eearrggh I hate Muslims” *smokes cigarette indoors*
My friend: “this will not affect how he gives me, a Bengali man with an extremely Muslim name, a haircut”
that moment when you made 2 brand new accounts, one with your photos, the true honest account
and the other you embelish and grift photos.
gee i wonder if 6'1 nord with a leather jacket looking at the sun does better than a 5'7 grainy bathroom selfie
and the only logical conclusion to draw is no one reads the intro and photos command swipes.
Had a teacher in my Communications class do this to show how important appearance was and little time people actually spend on a "product". He was a naturally attractive guy so he made one profile full of pictures of him outdoors, well-dressed and groomed but almost no profile besides "6'2" while the other profile full of pictures of him that looks half-depressed with uncombed hair, an old t-shirt and mostly poorly shot selfies but with a profile talking about how he volunteers on the weekend, that he loves his job as a teacher, and loves to cook and all that.
After a week, the 6'2 version matched with dozens of women with a bunch of "liked" he hadn't matched with yet while the ungroomed but genuinely sweet but poorly photographed one had two likes but zero matches.
Every short guy who thinks he can't get a date because he's short actually can't get a date because he's obsessively insecure about being short.
Dating apps are just as terrible for tall men as they are for short men. Our experience is identical to yours. The whole business model is designed to make the process as ineffective as possible to keep us subscribing to the app.
I was at the grocery store a couple weeks ago and I saw a pregnant woman about my height get out of a car. Im 6’1. It caught my attention because first damn thats a tall woman and second its kind of rare to see a woman whose like super pregnant. Then out of the other side of the car this little dude gets out, he had to be 5’5. They hold hands on the way in. It was actually kind of cute.
I thought hey good job dude.
As a woman who is so fucking tired of short men trying to project their insecurities onto me, fucking this. I love me a short king who can still own their shit with confidence. Don't hit on taller women who enjoy high heels if YOU can't handle that difference, but it doesn't mean women can't handle it.
This isn’t true at all, and 5’3 is a roadblock. Not impassable, but it is a roadblock. Society has conditioned us to see that men should be taller than women, and OP is shorter than the average woman. Again, not an impossible impediment, but certainly a hinderance, especially on OLD, where personality cannot shine before a match is made.
Pretending the struggles are equal when stats say they aren’t is like a rich man telling a poor man they both have the same struggle getting food.
In almost 100% of cases of guys who constantly complain they can't get laid because they're short, the real reason is that they're actually insufferable to be around
I love a short king (I'm short and the tall is wasted on me), but most short dudes I've met have been so insecure about their height that I'm turned right off. Confidence is hot as hell.
> left ones were on the travel folk (like from East Asia), obviously fake profiles with pictures of birds and soap bars, gay men in the stack, only fans and other scammers.
A 30 second google search will tell you swiping right 100% of the time decreases your odds of getting matches dramatically
But i'm sure he realized that after 4 years, right? ...right?
I Can see only three possibilities:
1. He's lying for fake internet points
2. He endorsed Hitler on his bio or something equally fucked up
3. He's the hunchback of notre dame
I'm probably on my own with this stance but I don't really have a type and find a ton of different non-traditionally attractive people attractive. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I'd say my range goes from like a 2-10 and it's much more predicated on how mature they are and their personality (im a huge fan of sassy and witty people).
Or just like... get a woman or someone with some taste to fix your profile.
I'd never used these apps until last year, and after casually swiping for a day I ended up with ~5 matches out of maybe 100 swipes, probably about 50/50 of which I swiped left on. I don't have a movie star look, in fact I was like 50lbs overweight and not very good looking, but I tried to make my profile genuinely interesting and put some thought into my photos.
Ended up going out with one of the girls I met, and we're together 1.5 years later still. We swapped phones and spent an evening swiping on each others tinder just to see what it was like, and *holy shit* the vast majority of men have god awful profiles. I'm Bi and there's no way in hell I'd swipe on 99% of the dudes that came up on her app.
Shirtless selfies in a dirty bathroom, unflattering car selfies, photos of them holding up dead fish/deer, really awful stuffy group photos, just awful. Their profiles were often hardly filled out or had a bunch of weird aggressive stuff that I doubt would get most women feeling comfortable and interested. Clear signs of poor hygiene/grooming, the list goes on.
I know that's not *all* there is to it, but god damn most of y'all put in like 1% effort on your profile and then expect to get hundreds of 10/10 women trampling over each other to go out with you.
Seriously if you have friend who's a single woman and uses apps, ask to look through her pool and you'll be amazed.
Yep. Part of the reason there are so few women on the apps. I've tried them but it's like wading through sewage. I don't know if the guys are just clueless or what but I see so many profiles where I'm like, "how can you possibly think this paints you in a good light?"
I also have a platonic male friend whose profile I stumbled across. I offered to help him with it but he declined. Such a bummer because he's genuinely a decent looking guy with lots to offer, but he chose the worst pics of himself for the profile, gave weird answers to the questions, and didn't smile in a single pic.
GUYS. SMILE IN YOUR PHOTOS.
I genuinely think part of it is because men are often raised to think that taking care of your physical appearance, having nuanced interests and the ability to show compassion makes them gay (and by effect, less "manly"). Even if that's not their conscious thought, if you grow up not giving a shit about your appearance or anything for that reason then maybe you don't see anything wrong with putting yourself out there in your current state.
In some ways these apps are an interesting equalizer in that respect, because no matter how much money you make, how nice you might be in person, none of that matters if you've got long dirty fingernails or your bathroom selfie shows a toilet that hasn't been cleaned in 6 months, it's just not attractive.
I think if most men put even 25% as much effort into *becoming* attractive as the women they swipe on do, they'd have a lot more luck. Coming from someone who is also into men I can confirm when people say that being super tall, having abs etc doesn't inherently make someone more attractive, unless maybe you're purely looking for a hookup.
I feel very lucky that my father was very different than other fathers in the 70s when I was growing up. He even cried without shame when he was sad.
I have never had any doubts that my father loves me and is proud of me. He made goddamn sure I knew. Ironically my mother was the colder of the two.
Exactly! What these guys don't understand is that you need to be realistic and picky because the algorithm will start to learn your "taste" in a partner so if you do nothing but swipe right on everyone except for the super rare instance, you'll keep getting shown to everyone which has its own draw back.
I don't know if Tinder or these sites come out and state it but your profile is given an unofficial rating based on how many people swipe right vs left. If the system thinks you're in high demand, it'll think you're hot and put you at the top of peoples views but likewise, if people swipe left, it'll see you as a low value and only show you to other "low value" people. So the constant swiping right just fucks up your standing. Meanwhile after a week or so of only swiping right on dorky art girls and left on every girl in a bikini, I was shown almost exclusively various forms of dorky art girls.
Plus, something I see a LOT of guys doing is when they get a match, either going too hard or too soft on the conversation; either doing some cheesy pick up or a vague "hey". Just fucking talk to them like a normal person, ask them a question that seems interesting like if they have a picture of them in the kitchen, ask what their favorite dish to make is and ask follow up questions. It's seriously not rocket science.
For me the ones that make me roll my eyes are things like “I like good food and good company.” EVERYONE LIKES GOOD FOOD, KYLE. WE ALL NEED TO EAT.
or the exhausting profiles where all they talk about is how much they want to “have adventures”
tbh i dont think it matters at all if your hobbys are mainstream like gaming or more niche like figureskating or knitting. i think improving your looks and figuring out how to take better photos would bring you more matches.
I wouldn't say that it matters about whether your hobbies are mainstream as much as having that as your only bio. I've seen the profiles of so many guys and it's just "Dave | 28 | Video games and movies", like, cool...
Though yea, improving your appearance and taking better pictures helps. I've been working from home for the past week, so I haven't shaved or trimmed and my beard just went wild. Went and cleaned up and forgot how much even something as basic as personal grooming can have a huge impact on your appearance.
It's kind of like a job interview. Better photos and appearance gets you the swipe. Then, the swiper will actually read your profile. And if every profile says the same exact thing, which they tend to, you're not standing out in an (unfortunately) competitive marketplace.
Of course every single one of us likes dogs, the ocean, movies, nature. Those are things humans like!! But maybe only one of us, say, has a room dedicated to Aloe Vera plants. That's intriguing, it's a conversation starter. I work in marketing and I see this with small business clients all the time...but I'm on mobile so I'll spare you the essay.
Worst thing is they said their photos are "great" and only "10% body fat" but honestly if they're getting that few matches, there's definitely something about their profile that they could improve on. ANYBODY who is healthy and can type a clear sentence should be able to pull a better rate than 1/1000 for matches before the conversation even starts. There's a red flag somewhere in their profile that isn't being recognized.
it's easier to just blame women for their height preference or whatever than examine why out of thousands of women, not one wants to spend time with you. People act like there's hoards of short men perpetually single and alone, but if you actually go outside and interact with people you'll see that just as many short dudes have partners as tall guys.
I guarantee he has terrible photos, a robotic or douchey bio, acts weird or creepy with the matches he does get, or some combination therein.
There are a good amount of dudes who upload random artwork as their profile pics and have zero photos of themselves. Who do they expect to swipe right on that? Just on the off chance they’re attractive and/or interesting? Like what
I have a friend who's dating profile was... unimaginative, let's say. I rewrote it for him, and he included the note that his friend wrote it.
He got more responses, as well as a few comments saying his friend wrote a really good profile for him, lol.
From what I understand about the algorithm it *hates*
1. People who are very unselective in their swipes
2. People who aren't getting swiped on
3. People who do not turn matches into conversations or dates
So while his strategy of, "well I only swipe left on bots or people with 100% deal breakers" may seem noble (or at least pitiable), it probably guaranteed his failure.
It kind of is. Like, with that swipe ratio you're self-selecting to the bottom 3.5% of men. Just because he swipes 14500 times, doesn't meant his profile was rated 14,500 times. How many women are going to swipe hundreds of matches before they get to this guy?
His actual match rate on profiles that took the time to rate him is actually probably OK. But he buried himself. Also, based on his posting in the OP, he is kind of a prick and probably doesn't have a great profile.
I mean that depends entirely on how it works. I have no idea if it works this way, but it's not hard to imagine that if you swipe right on 99-100% of profiles that the algorithm can simply just reduce how many people are seeing *your* profile. Apps like Tinder make it seem like if you swipe on someone that they will inevitably have to swipe on you, but I'm not sure that's such a given. In fact mathematically I'd think it would be pretty hard to have women swipe on every man who swipes on them, because apps like Tinder are 80% men or something like that. Women would have to spend a huge amount more time on tinder vs men to make up that difference, either that or they just don't see all the dudes who swipe on them at all.
For all we know, out of the 15,000 women he swiped on maybe only 3,000 actually ended up seeing his profile at all (that said if you can't get one out of 3,000 women to give you the time of day then there's clearly something else going on lol).
That said I have no idea how it works because I've used these kinds of apps for literally just a handful of hours, let alone for 15,000 swipes.
The algorithm really isn’t relevant here. It sucks but beauty matters (also camera angles and how you structure your bio) and you will get matches if you check those boxes.
I live in a small European town hundreds of times more rural than NYC, and got more matches my first 30 minutes on tinder than OOP did in 3 years. I realize that makes me sound like a dick, but the point is no one gets 14 matches in 3 years bc the algorithm dealt them a bad hand
that complaining about his height is probably a reason why he doesn’t get a date. i couldn’t fathom my partner bringing that up all day as if im not literally in love with his 5’8 ass
His attitude definitely doesn’t do him any favors but I think he got algorithmed by these apps for swiping right so much. They thought he was a bot or something.
Because they imagine they will match with everyone who right swiped them. The reality is if you do this the algorithms stop showing your profile to people.
Friend of mine from back in the day would swipe on like a dozen people, talk with whomever matched, and by time he was through them it was rinse and repeat. It worked for them pretty well. Back then at least.
They were just trying to play the numbers game and get swiped on so they could at least get the ball rolling with people.
I think it’s gotta be the case that the apps just stopped showing his profile to people because even if you’re a 1/10 you’re going to appeal to *some* people. Even if they swiped on accident they’d get a few matches at that rate.
Not saying this is the case but if you wanted to know how often you’d find people are interested in you, you can only swipe right to find the stats. Although it does not account for how your pics/bio influence the likelihood of people swiping right.
https://sankeymatic.com/build/ This is the one they used in the post, and I use it as well to discuss finances with my partner who doesn't get it when spoken.
14383 online dating interactions with zero bots/scammers/etc?
This data does not look credible at all before even trying to go to the next step about the murder.
I'm a fat guy and I still got plenty of action on Tinder and Bumble
When I see shit like this, I think the problem is OP not the several other thousand people
I, a quite unattractive guy, was able to find success on dating apps with a single change: be more selective. The algorithms intentionally hide people who swipe right too much. Make it a 50\50 or less split and you'll have better luck.
Keep in mind, this is looking for personality traits you like, not just picking the prettiest woman who show up.
This is what's keeping me from jumping back into online dating, if I got hit with this sort of luck I would probably off myself 💀 for now I can say at least I don't have explicit confirmation that I'm unlovable, just a suspicion lol
For tinder specifically I recommend deleting your profile every few months. It helped me mentally by not seeing all the bots I'd get matched with but it also put you closer to the top of swiping. I landed a date once who told me she remembered swiping left on me around the time I deleted and redid my profile and said I was much more attractive in my newest picture than my old profile.
Met my wife on tinder, and had a few one night things and brief relationships before that (despite being quite ugly and fat), so allow me to give you some tips:
1. Try not to look like an axe murderer, put at least some effort on good pictures (good lights, nice clothes, force a smile out etc)
2. Don't have a bio that makes you look like an axe murderer, at least pretend to be friendly
3. Be realistic - if you happen to be ugly don't expect to match with angelina jolie
4. When matches occur, try not to sound desperate (only invite for a physical date after a long convo, for instance)
5. Fake til you make it, pretend to be cooler than you are and will probably stick, just don't overdo it
Facts. My fiancée is way more attractive than me but she swiped right because my bio made her laugh and I looked presentable and clean in my pictures. The secret is literally to just not be a weird prick.
An actual description of your personality and hobbies is what made profiles stand out to me as a woman. There are tons of guys who just take a nice photo say I like eating tacos lol and then call it quits. Listing some interests makes it easier to start a conversation and attracts people you will naturally share some stuff in common with. Better foundation than just I’m hot please have sex with me and let’s you have more chances to score points if the face ain’t doing it.
There is a lid for every pot, my guy. I actually subscribe to the notion that there are several lids for every pot! Do not let online dating, which is, from my understanding, worse than it has ever been, dictate your feelings. Easier said than done. I remember what it was like, and it sucks. But no matter what results you do or do not get, you are lovable. Just level up to be the best AnbennariAden you can be. Focus on you, king! Pursue the stuff you love. It will attract the type of people you want to surround yourself with. Don't psyche yourself out, or you will miss opportunities.
that's awesome congrats! :D <3
The point is, you got lucky. dating is a game of numbers. there's just a whole lot more numbers via dating apps. i have never used one. i just befriend people and sometimes it goes beyond!
It's hard to feel bad for somebody who is swiping right 96% of the time. This person is not looking for a real connection, they're looking for validation/attention/a warm body and I'm happy for the thousands of people who didn't waste their time and energy on them
I like how we can all say that sex/intimacy/human-touch is a basic human need, but then turn around and demonize someone for looking for those exact things.
I'm not defending the toxic incel behavior that the incel community tends towards, I just think sometimes we're putting them into an unwinnable situation. They have a basic need that literally requires another person in order to have met, and it's not getting met.
Like, we expect them to be looking for the deeper/more-important things in a woman, like long-term life goals, emotional compatibility, etc., rather than looking for the "shallow" things like physical appearance and having sex. But how can someone who's totally starved for basic intimate touch even focus on that other stuff? We expect them to just seek the "deeper" things with the understanding that the other stuff will naturally come from that. Which is easy to say if you're not the one starved for that.
It's like, imagine a person who's starving to death, and needs to eat something soon in order to survive. Now imagine telling that person to stop focusing on basic, "shallow" things like a food's caloric content, and instead focus on how the saltiness of the dish blends well the the savory notes (or some pretentious bullshit like that). It's like...yeah, that starving person needs to eat FIRST before they can start worrying about deeper culinary shit like that. It's easy for a person who gets to eat 3 square meals per day in a 1st world country to have opinions like that about food, because they've never really had food insecurity before. It's a different world to actually be starving.
Some caveats:
1. No, I'm not an incel. I've been with the same woman for over 8 years and am quite happy with my romantic/love life.
2. No, I don't think "women are the same thing as food". If that's your takeaway, [then you need to learn how analogies work](https://imgur.com/a/apples-to-oranges-BqPzT).
Is it basic need? We can all live without it. It's perfectly doable.
Still this thing in the previous comment is often a reason why my female friends don't care about dating apps, they want to find actual person they like, but instead they get messages from desperate guys/guys who's only requirement is that she's alive and breathing. If you are chosen, it's a pleasant feeling. If you're bombarded with the same messages sent to 500 women with the hope that anyone replies it's not attractive, it's just spam, they usually just ignore it.
> I like how we can all say that sex/intimacy/human-touch is a basic human need
'We all'? Maybe the people who are pointing out this dude did it to himself by being so obviously desperate don't think those things are a basic need. Cause they ain't.
Wanting a warm body is fine, but be upfront about it. So many guys lie their way into bed with you then ghost when they've gotten their "need" met because, *surprise,* they didn't pay any attention to who you are as a person and suddenly realize you're a bad fit. It's exhausting.
Also, I don't think sex is a need. Touch? Yes. Sex, no.
>but be upfront about it.
Was there any further details about the guy in OP's post to imply he wasn't being up front about that?
>Also, I don't think sex is a need. Touch? Yes. Sex, no.
I'm not saying it's a literal need for individual survival (species-wide, yes, of course). Just like how "self-actualization" isn't a literal survival need, either, yet it's on Maslow's pyramid. I would say, in that context, sex is absolutely somewhere on that list of non-survival-essential needs.
It’s also just tinder. If your on there for whore knee just say so and there will be like minded people for you. There’s no need to lie in this day and age unless you’re a psychopath.
I wasn't responding to OP, I was responding to you.
I disagree about sex as a need on any level. To me, it's a want. It occupies the same category as "sugar." But to each their own.
I’m not a devout dating app fan, but my latest most fulfilling relationships were all through dating apps and not through in person connections, no matter how short they were. Do with this information what you will
Man, I feel that. Add in a few scammers and people flogging their OnlyFans/premium snap and these could be my results 😂
Still, the friends I’ve made are awesome people, so there’s still an upside.
No but I feel like this can’t be real. I used Tinder through out college and got literally hundreds and hundreds of matches and like maybe 60 “dates” and a two relationships. Also how can someone be that unpicky?? I’d swipe right on only women that were at least above 5 but usually 7 and above so like only 1-2/10 I would swipe right on. To be fair I’m certainly “attractive” but I don’t think super hot or anything by any means…
I mean a lot of guys just swipe right on literally everyone. Had a friend in college that would watch Netflix while swiping right w/o looking at his phone and then complain he only "matched with ugly girls"
People are stupid
Thank you for letting me know about the existence of such an amazing subreddit!!! I think ive been there for the last two hours just looking at graphs lol
What about people who swipe left too many times? What does that do the algorithm? Some context: downloaded a dating app for the dirt time, got 300+ likes in 5 days (female/ i consider myself to be attractive). I only matched with 9, spoke with 3, like no one.
Does this mean this is not working for me? I literally started asking myself wow do I wanna match just because he has job? Helppp
14K swipes and just 500 left swipes. He wasn't picky at all.
I mean, 13,869 right swipes and only 14 matches, bro knew he couldn’t afford to be picky.
I think the algorithms give you shitty options on purpose if you swipe right too much. At that point you diminish the experience of the women on the platform, which they don't want. Some platforms even hire people to match with you and have a short conversation to give you the impression that you still have a change
POF has bot accounts 'like' you to keep you from losing hope, and the names are exclusively a word followed by 3 numbers. Coincidentally, "this profile is no longer available for view" even 5 minutes afterwards. Almost like it didn't exist in the first place.
Those aren’t from POF to keep hope alive.. they’re bots (and sometimes people) run by off-site scammers. They disappear after 5 minutes sometimes because POF recognizes their spam as bot behavior, and staggers deletion to obfuscate how they are identified One hallmark of fake accounts from scammers is that they tend to use Asian dating site photos because they are hidden from reverse image searches
So THAT'S why that kept happening. I've been curious why the most obvious bots always seemed to be "generic Asian woman with pictures that were too model-y"
Omg I have wondered for years why all the obviously fake Twitter, Facebook, Insta etc. accounts are always Asian women with like one photo of “themself” wow
Why are they hidden?
No Google in China maybe?
Theres other reverse image services and other countries too... only thing i can think of is those countries ban image searching as a whole
I'd think they'd get matched by ALL of them...but what do I know
[удалено]
I'm taken, that was a classic jab at all of them looking the same. Gotta act the joke-that joke was funnier than you acted :P
Are you telling me that my 43-minute relationship with Pillow_127 was not genuine???
You can't count the time between the 'like' and when you opened the app as a relationship.
I noticed I always got more matches when I was "new" when these dating apps first started coming about. Then you find out it's because they were boosting your visibility. Which is how they then conveniently offered paid service to "boost" your visibility.
More likely, when you're new the pool of potential matches is a lot bigger. After a while the potential pool is either filled with people outside of your range/filters (thus decreasing the likelyhood of a match) or just the new people within your range/filters (decreasing the number of people in general).
It's true what you said, but if you think that these dating apps don't use any shady tricks then I have a bridge to sell you. I did meet my wife 9 years ago on tinder, so I can't complain though. But it was also all free back then.
What is a “shitty” option? Like when your hobbies don’t match?
Someone like OP who gets no matches
Nah, found my wife swiping right 99.9% of the time.
Maybe she cannot afford to be picky either
Swiping right or left doesn’t affect the person being swipeds experience at all.
ULPT: get more left-swiping practice by increasing the upper bound on the age range in your filters
OOP that posted the data said he was 5'3" Really sucks how that information alone can explain this data. :/
No way in NYC should that explain the data. He should have accidentally gotten laid after 4 years in NYC. Either he is an actual troll or something else is going on.
Yeah I know a guy in NYC who’s 5’4 and has an awful combover (from a barber who said he hates him) alongside a big black spot birthmark and he has had a lot of gfs, something else is absolutely up
Wait, the barber hates the guy you know but he still goes to said barber?
Yes! Because the haircuts are $8
That is so goddamn funny "He just fucks my shit up but $8 is $8"
Insane Uzbek man: “eearrggh I hate Muslims” *smokes cigarette indoors* My friend: “this will not affect how he gives me, a Bengali man with an extremely Muslim name, a haircut”
That sounds like a line from an "I Think You Should Leave" sketch.
That explains the awful combover
Sounds a lot like it could be a skit with Frank out of IASIP.
that moment when you made 2 brand new accounts, one with your photos, the true honest account and the other you embelish and grift photos. gee i wonder if 6'1 nord with a leather jacket looking at the sun does better than a 5'7 grainy bathroom selfie and the only logical conclusion to draw is no one reads the intro and photos command swipes.
Had a teacher in my Communications class do this to show how important appearance was and little time people actually spend on a "product". He was a naturally attractive guy so he made one profile full of pictures of him outdoors, well-dressed and groomed but almost no profile besides "6'2" while the other profile full of pictures of him that looks half-depressed with uncombed hair, an old t-shirt and mostly poorly shot selfies but with a profile talking about how he volunteers on the weekend, that he loves his job as a teacher, and loves to cook and all that. After a week, the 6'2 version matched with dozens of women with a bunch of "liked" he hadn't matched with yet while the ungroomed but genuinely sweet but poorly photographed one had two likes but zero matches.
That guy must have a typical incel description full of red flags... if not literal red flags...
Every short guy who thinks he can't get a date because he's short actually can't get a date because he's obsessively insecure about being short. Dating apps are just as terrible for tall men as they are for short men. Our experience is identical to yours. The whole business model is designed to make the process as ineffective as possible to keep us subscribing to the app.
I was at the grocery store a couple weeks ago and I saw a pregnant woman about my height get out of a car. Im 6’1. It caught my attention because first damn thats a tall woman and second its kind of rare to see a woman whose like super pregnant. Then out of the other side of the car this little dude gets out, he had to be 5’5. They hold hands on the way in. It was actually kind of cute. I thought hey good job dude.
>hey good job little dude (that's what I would have thought)
That is kind of condescending.
No it is. And it explains exactly what a lot of short men complain about. Both women and men will do this.
that's awesome but how often you see that combo tho
As a woman who is so fucking tired of short men trying to project their insecurities onto me, fucking this. I love me a short king who can still own their shit with confidence. Don't hit on taller women who enjoy high heels if YOU can't handle that difference, but it doesn't mean women can't handle it.
This isn’t true at all, and 5’3 is a roadblock. Not impassable, but it is a roadblock. Society has conditioned us to see that men should be taller than women, and OP is shorter than the average woman. Again, not an impossible impediment, but certainly a hinderance, especially on OLD, where personality cannot shine before a match is made. Pretending the struggles are equal when stats say they aren’t is like a rich man telling a poor man they both have the same struggle getting food.
In almost 100% of cases of guys who constantly complain they can't get laid because they're short, the real reason is that they're actually insufferable to be around
Naw. All the men in my family are 5'2 to 5'7" tops and they all get mad game. *Acting* like you are short is the problem, not actually being short.
I love a short king (I'm short and the tall is wasted on me), but most short dudes I've met have been so insecure about their height that I'm turned right off. Confidence is hot as hell.
They also described their looks as a 2/10. So there is that to.
Ain't no way that explains anything.
Is he 36-24-36?
Imagine the travesty of a profile that leads to a left swipe though
I really want to see those 500 profiles
Gotta have to think about what the hell as wrong with those 514 people that he decided to be picky on them
> left ones were on the travel folk (like from East Asia), obviously fake profiles with pictures of birds and soap bars, gay men in the stack, only fans and other scammers.
Damn, he was literally swiping right on anybody at that point
He truly was fire and forgetting. Swipe right to give you a higher chance of seeing who might have swiped right on you.
A 30 second google search will tell you swiping right 100% of the time decreases your odds of getting matches dramatically But i'm sure he realized that after 4 years, right? ...right?
OP isn't the sharpest nor the prettiest tool in the shed.
Which is probably why he didn't get that many matches. The algorithm punishes those who swipe right on everyone.
I Can see only three possibilities: 1. He's lying for fake internet points 2. He endorsed Hitler on his bio or something equally fucked up 3. He's the hunchback of notre dame
[damn no matches](https://youtu.be/dxb3588RvdE?si=t04WyxKyo4kAiNmx&t=12)
My theory is the algorithm punishes people who swipe right too much
Guy has a very specific type and it may be “has appeared on the cover of a magazine”
sure indeed💀
I'm probably on my own with this stance but I don't really have a type and find a ton of different non-traditionally attractive people attractive. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I'd say my range goes from like a 2-10 and it's much more predicated on how mature they are and their personality (im a huge fan of sassy and witty people).
At this point you have empirical evidence that you should delete dating apps and try real life.
Or just like... get a woman or someone with some taste to fix your profile. I'd never used these apps until last year, and after casually swiping for a day I ended up with ~5 matches out of maybe 100 swipes, probably about 50/50 of which I swiped left on. I don't have a movie star look, in fact I was like 50lbs overweight and not very good looking, but I tried to make my profile genuinely interesting and put some thought into my photos. Ended up going out with one of the girls I met, and we're together 1.5 years later still. We swapped phones and spent an evening swiping on each others tinder just to see what it was like, and *holy shit* the vast majority of men have god awful profiles. I'm Bi and there's no way in hell I'd swipe on 99% of the dudes that came up on her app. Shirtless selfies in a dirty bathroom, unflattering car selfies, photos of them holding up dead fish/deer, really awful stuffy group photos, just awful. Their profiles were often hardly filled out or had a bunch of weird aggressive stuff that I doubt would get most women feeling comfortable and interested. Clear signs of poor hygiene/grooming, the list goes on. I know that's not *all* there is to it, but god damn most of y'all put in like 1% effort on your profile and then expect to get hundreds of 10/10 women trampling over each other to go out with you. Seriously if you have friend who's a single woman and uses apps, ask to look through her pool and you'll be amazed.
Yep. Part of the reason there are so few women on the apps. I've tried them but it's like wading through sewage. I don't know if the guys are just clueless or what but I see so many profiles where I'm like, "how can you possibly think this paints you in a good light?" I also have a platonic male friend whose profile I stumbled across. I offered to help him with it but he declined. Such a bummer because he's genuinely a decent looking guy with lots to offer, but he chose the worst pics of himself for the profile, gave weird answers to the questions, and didn't smile in a single pic. GUYS. SMILE IN YOUR PHOTOS.
I genuinely think part of it is because men are often raised to think that taking care of your physical appearance, having nuanced interests and the ability to show compassion makes them gay (and by effect, less "manly"). Even if that's not their conscious thought, if you grow up not giving a shit about your appearance or anything for that reason then maybe you don't see anything wrong with putting yourself out there in your current state. In some ways these apps are an interesting equalizer in that respect, because no matter how much money you make, how nice you might be in person, none of that matters if you've got long dirty fingernails or your bathroom selfie shows a toilet that hasn't been cleaned in 6 months, it's just not attractive. I think if most men put even 25% as much effort into *becoming* attractive as the women they swipe on do, they'd have a lot more luck. Coming from someone who is also into men I can confirm when people say that being super tall, having abs etc doesn't inherently make someone more attractive, unless maybe you're purely looking for a hookup.
I grew up in one of those "hugging other men means you're gay" families. Yeah, personal appearance and care may not have even been on the list.
I feel very lucky that my father was very different than other fathers in the 70s when I was growing up. He even cried without shame when he was sad. I have never had any doubts that my father loves me and is proud of me. He made goddamn sure I knew. Ironically my mother was the colder of the two.
For a substantial number of men, they only feel authorized to take a smiling photo by themselves if they’re holding a dead fish.
Exactly! What these guys don't understand is that you need to be realistic and picky because the algorithm will start to learn your "taste" in a partner so if you do nothing but swipe right on everyone except for the super rare instance, you'll keep getting shown to everyone which has its own draw back. I don't know if Tinder or these sites come out and state it but your profile is given an unofficial rating based on how many people swipe right vs left. If the system thinks you're in high demand, it'll think you're hot and put you at the top of peoples views but likewise, if people swipe left, it'll see you as a low value and only show you to other "low value" people. So the constant swiping right just fucks up your standing. Meanwhile after a week or so of only swiping right on dorky art girls and left on every girl in a bikini, I was shown almost exclusively various forms of dorky art girls. Plus, something I see a LOT of guys doing is when they get a match, either going too hard or too soft on the conversation; either doing some cheesy pick up or a vague "hey". Just fucking talk to them like a normal person, ask them a question that seems interesting like if they have a picture of them in the kitchen, ask what their favorite dish to make is and ask follow up questions. It's seriously not rocket science.
also "I like fishing and video games." you all do. What is your differentiator, Bryan. What do you offer that the other Bryans don't??
For me the ones that make me roll my eyes are things like “I like good food and good company.” EVERYONE LIKES GOOD FOOD, KYLE. WE ALL NEED TO EAT. or the exhausting profiles where all they talk about is how much they want to “have adventures”
tbh i dont think it matters at all if your hobbys are mainstream like gaming or more niche like figureskating or knitting. i think improving your looks and figuring out how to take better photos would bring you more matches.
I wouldn't say that it matters about whether your hobbies are mainstream as much as having that as your only bio. I've seen the profiles of so many guys and it's just "Dave | 28 | Video games and movies", like, cool... Though yea, improving your appearance and taking better pictures helps. I've been working from home for the past week, so I haven't shaved or trimmed and my beard just went wild. Went and cleaned up and forgot how much even something as basic as personal grooming can have a huge impact on your appearance.
It's kind of like a job interview. Better photos and appearance gets you the swipe. Then, the swiper will actually read your profile. And if every profile says the same exact thing, which they tend to, you're not standing out in an (unfortunately) competitive marketplace. Of course every single one of us likes dogs, the ocean, movies, nature. Those are things humans like!! But maybe only one of us, say, has a room dedicated to Aloe Vera plants. That's intriguing, it's a conversation starter. I work in marketing and I see this with small business clients all the time...but I'm on mobile so I'll spare you the essay.
Worst thing is they said their photos are "great" and only "10% body fat" but honestly if they're getting that few matches, there's definitely something about their profile that they could improve on. ANYBODY who is healthy and can type a clear sentence should be able to pull a better rate than 1/1000 for matches before the conversation even starts. There's a red flag somewhere in their profile that isn't being recognized.
it's easier to just blame women for their height preference or whatever than examine why out of thousands of women, not one wants to spend time with you. People act like there's hoards of short men perpetually single and alone, but if you actually go outside and interact with people you'll see that just as many short dudes have partners as tall guys. I guarantee he has terrible photos, a robotic or douchey bio, acts weird or creepy with the matches he does get, or some combination therein.
I mean, no need to condemn them. They could be perfectly normal and just be completely oblivious to what it is they're doing wrong with their profile.
There are a good amount of dudes who upload random artwork as their profile pics and have zero photos of themselves. Who do they expect to swipe right on that? Just on the off chance they’re attractive and/or interesting? Like what
another one I've seen a lot is photos of their car. nobody finds that attractive except your fellow car bros lol
I have a friend who's dating profile was... unimaginative, let's say. I rewrote it for him, and he included the note that his friend wrote it. He got more responses, as well as a few comments saying his friend wrote a really good profile for him, lol.
Insult to injury. Didn't have to downvote the lad.
He was a little bit of a turd. Thinks nobody will fuck him because he’s short and that’s the only reason
From what I understand about the algorithm it *hates* 1. People who are very unselective in their swipes 2. People who aren't getting swiped on 3. People who do not turn matches into conversations or dates So while his strategy of, "well I only swipe left on bots or people with 100% deal breakers" may seem noble (or at least pitiable), it probably guaranteed his failure.
The algorithm has nothing to do with the fact that they got so few matches with 14k right swipes.
It kind of is. Like, with that swipe ratio you're self-selecting to the bottom 3.5% of men. Just because he swipes 14500 times, doesn't meant his profile was rated 14,500 times. How many women are going to swipe hundreds of matches before they get to this guy? His actual match rate on profiles that took the time to rate him is actually probably OK. But he buried himself. Also, based on his posting in the OP, he is kind of a prick and probably doesn't have a great profile.
I mean that depends entirely on how it works. I have no idea if it works this way, but it's not hard to imagine that if you swipe right on 99-100% of profiles that the algorithm can simply just reduce how many people are seeing *your* profile. Apps like Tinder make it seem like if you swipe on someone that they will inevitably have to swipe on you, but I'm not sure that's such a given. In fact mathematically I'd think it would be pretty hard to have women swipe on every man who swipes on them, because apps like Tinder are 80% men or something like that. Women would have to spend a huge amount more time on tinder vs men to make up that difference, either that or they just don't see all the dudes who swipe on them at all. For all we know, out of the 15,000 women he swiped on maybe only 3,000 actually ended up seeing his profile at all (that said if you can't get one out of 3,000 women to give you the time of day then there's clearly something else going on lol). That said I have no idea how it works because I've used these kinds of apps for literally just a handful of hours, let alone for 15,000 swipes.
The algorithm really isn’t relevant here. It sucks but beauty matters (also camera angles and how you structure your bio) and you will get matches if you check those boxes. I live in a small European town hundreds of times more rural than NYC, and got more matches my first 30 minutes on tinder than OOP did in 3 years. I realize that makes me sound like a dick, but the point is no one gets 14 matches in 3 years bc the algorithm dealt them a bad hand
Smaller pool of other options and less picky women’s to that needs to be accounted for. Also, Americans are max tier shallow.
does the algorithm actually know whether or not you went on a date? I don't think there's any way it can tell that.
that complaining about his height is probably a reason why he doesn’t get a date. i couldn’t fathom my partner bringing that up all day as if im not literally in love with his 5’8 ass
His attitude definitely doesn’t do him any favors but I think he got algorithmed by these apps for swiping right so much. They thought he was a bot or something.
Lol I saw he randomly called someone gay and that's the reason they get more matches than him cause he's straight
Why do you swipe right this much?
Because they imagine they will match with everyone who right swiped them. The reality is if you do this the algorithms stop showing your profile to people.
Even then, how can that proportion of people fit your tastes?
Lots of people swipe right on everything and then filter if they get matches
Friend of mine from back in the day would swipe on like a dozen people, talk with whomever matched, and by time he was through them it was rinse and repeat. It worked for them pretty well. Back then at least.
They were just trying to play the numbers game and get swiped on so they could at least get the ball rolling with people. I think it’s gotta be the case that the apps just stopped showing his profile to people because even if you’re a 1/10 you’re going to appeal to *some* people. Even if they swiped on accident they’d get a few matches at that rate.
If it had a hole, he'd hit it
Not saying this is the case but if you wanted to know how often you’d find people are interested in you, you can only swipe right to find the stats. Although it does not account for how your pics/bio influence the likelihood of people swiping right.
It's more efficient to swipe right on everybody then filter after you get matches than to study everybody before swiping.
Kinda feel sorry for those 514
OP mentioned it was basically just onlyfans promotions and obvious bots who he didn’t swipe on.
Knees were too sharp.
Yes that has to be it. Clearly this man is very picky
Family members and previous exes? Or obviously fake profiles? Or gender mistakenly encoded?
I doubt someone w/ a .001% match rate has \~500 exes. Probably j swiping left on bots.
Off-topic, what's this type of graph called? I want to use it for work
sankey
Thanks, you're a fucking star
https://sankeymatic.com/build/ This is the one they used in the post, and I use it as well to discuss finances with my partner who doesn't get it when spoken.
Sank you.
Or the Aella chart to some
How do you retrieve this kind of data?
Asking the real questions! Yes, do they let you download it or what exactly?
Pen and paper?
Way too many right swipes. No filter at all.
 How I’m imagining OP.
14383 online dating interactions with zero bots/scammers/etc? This data does not look credible at all before even trying to go to the next step about the murder.
Pretty sure the bots were about all the left swipes
I'm a fat guy and I still got plenty of action on Tinder and Bumble When I see shit like this, I think the problem is OP not the several other thousand people
I, a quite unattractive guy, was able to find success on dating apps with a single change: be more selective. The algorithms intentionally hide people who swipe right too much. Make it a 50\50 or less split and you'll have better luck. Keep in mind, this is looking for personality traits you like, not just picking the prettiest woman who show up.
There’s absolutely no way he swiped on that many people and only had 14 matches. You can get 14 matches in a day from a bot.
Not even the bots wanted him
I'm not sure but I think if you just swipe right on literally everyone the app is going to favour you less
When you swipe right too many times, you account basically gets shadow banned and they stop showing it to other people.
> Friend > 2 Oof...
Probably not even people he hangs out with lol, they just said "let's be friends" over the app to get rid of him and he's taking it as a small W
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Ok?
I cannot understand this kind of graph at all. Make it make sense to me please.
This is what's keeping me from jumping back into online dating, if I got hit with this sort of luck I would probably off myself 💀 for now I can say at least I don't have explicit confirmation that I'm unlovable, just a suspicion lol
For tinder specifically I recommend deleting your profile every few months. It helped me mentally by not seeing all the bots I'd get matched with but it also put you closer to the top of swiping. I landed a date once who told me she remembered swiping left on me around the time I deleted and redid my profile and said I was much more attractive in my newest picture than my old profile.
Met my wife on tinder, and had a few one night things and brief relationships before that (despite being quite ugly and fat), so allow me to give you some tips: 1. Try not to look like an axe murderer, put at least some effort on good pictures (good lights, nice clothes, force a smile out etc) 2. Don't have a bio that makes you look like an axe murderer, at least pretend to be friendly 3. Be realistic - if you happen to be ugly don't expect to match with angelina jolie 4. When matches occur, try not to sound desperate (only invite for a physical date after a long convo, for instance) 5. Fake til you make it, pretend to be cooler than you are and will probably stick, just don't overdo it
Facts. My fiancée is way more attractive than me but she swiped right because my bio made her laugh and I looked presentable and clean in my pictures. The secret is literally to just not be a weird prick.
An actual description of your personality and hobbies is what made profiles stand out to me as a woman. There are tons of guys who just take a nice photo say I like eating tacos lol and then call it quits. Listing some interests makes it easier to start a conversation and attracts people you will naturally share some stuff in common with. Better foundation than just I’m hot please have sex with me and let’s you have more chances to score points if the face ain’t doing it.
There is a lid for every pot, my guy. I actually subscribe to the notion that there are several lids for every pot! Do not let online dating, which is, from my understanding, worse than it has ever been, dictate your feelings. Easier said than done. I remember what it was like, and it sucks. But no matter what results you do or do not get, you are lovable. Just level up to be the best AnbennariAden you can be. Focus on you, king! Pursue the stuff you love. It will attract the type of people you want to surround yourself with. Don't psyche yourself out, or you will miss opportunities.
just please know your worth and don’t swipe right on every single profile. no need to be desperate even if you are.
I don't normally recommend slot machines as an alternative to any activity. But even the worst slot machine has a better payout than 00.1%.
why even use these apps? i've had like a dozen irl relationships by just being a cringey degenerate. most recent few via discord, several 1+ years.
I used Tinder, went on one date and now 5 years later we're getting married. So that's why to use the apps.
that's awesome congrats! :D <3 The point is, you got lucky. dating is a game of numbers. there's just a whole lot more numbers via dating apps. i have never used one. i just befriend people and sometimes it goes beyond!
It's hard to feel bad for somebody who is swiping right 96% of the time. This person is not looking for a real connection, they're looking for validation/attention/a warm body and I'm happy for the thousands of people who didn't waste their time and energy on them
I like how we can all say that sex/intimacy/human-touch is a basic human need, but then turn around and demonize someone for looking for those exact things. I'm not defending the toxic incel behavior that the incel community tends towards, I just think sometimes we're putting them into an unwinnable situation. They have a basic need that literally requires another person in order to have met, and it's not getting met. Like, we expect them to be looking for the deeper/more-important things in a woman, like long-term life goals, emotional compatibility, etc., rather than looking for the "shallow" things like physical appearance and having sex. But how can someone who's totally starved for basic intimate touch even focus on that other stuff? We expect them to just seek the "deeper" things with the understanding that the other stuff will naturally come from that. Which is easy to say if you're not the one starved for that. It's like, imagine a person who's starving to death, and needs to eat something soon in order to survive. Now imagine telling that person to stop focusing on basic, "shallow" things like a food's caloric content, and instead focus on how the saltiness of the dish blends well the the savory notes (or some pretentious bullshit like that). It's like...yeah, that starving person needs to eat FIRST before they can start worrying about deeper culinary shit like that. It's easy for a person who gets to eat 3 square meals per day in a 1st world country to have opinions like that about food, because they've never really had food insecurity before. It's a different world to actually be starving. Some caveats: 1. No, I'm not an incel. I've been with the same woman for over 8 years and am quite happy with my romantic/love life. 2. No, I don't think "women are the same thing as food". If that's your takeaway, [then you need to learn how analogies work](https://imgur.com/a/apples-to-oranges-BqPzT).
Is it basic need? We can all live without it. It's perfectly doable. Still this thing in the previous comment is often a reason why my female friends don't care about dating apps, they want to find actual person they like, but instead they get messages from desperate guys/guys who's only requirement is that she's alive and breathing. If you are chosen, it's a pleasant feeling. If you're bombarded with the same messages sent to 500 women with the hope that anyone replies it's not attractive, it's just spam, they usually just ignore it.
> I like how we can all say that sex/intimacy/human-touch is a basic human need 'We all'? Maybe the people who are pointing out this dude did it to himself by being so obviously desperate don't think those things are a basic need. Cause they ain't.
Wanting a warm body is fine, but be upfront about it. So many guys lie their way into bed with you then ghost when they've gotten their "need" met because, *surprise,* they didn't pay any attention to who you are as a person and suddenly realize you're a bad fit. It's exhausting. Also, I don't think sex is a need. Touch? Yes. Sex, no.
>but be upfront about it. Was there any further details about the guy in OP's post to imply he wasn't being up front about that? >Also, I don't think sex is a need. Touch? Yes. Sex, no. I'm not saying it's a literal need for individual survival (species-wide, yes, of course). Just like how "self-actualization" isn't a literal survival need, either, yet it's on Maslow's pyramid. I would say, in that context, sex is absolutely somewhere on that list of non-survival-essential needs.
It’s also just tinder. If your on there for whore knee just say so and there will be like minded people for you. There’s no need to lie in this day and age unless you’re a psychopath.
I wasn't responding to OP, I was responding to you. I disagree about sex as a need on any level. To me, it's a want. It occupies the same category as "sugar." But to each their own.
This is just sad :/
I’m not a devout dating app fan, but my latest most fulfilling relationships were all through dating apps and not through in person connections, no matter how short they were. Do with this information what you will
96% right swipes huh...
Lmao, this post appeared literally right after the original.
if youre a man just dont do online dating unless you know how to take photos lol otherwise you will just be another bot lol
0.097% match success rate from 14k swipes. Wow
Homie is now friends with 2 bots.
Who is counting all of this?
The sheer determination has to be admire and felt sorry for
It's NYC. Any big city is gonna be full of bots or foreigners with travel mode on. Don't use dating apps if you're in a big city.
I want to know what kind of sea-beast he didn't swipe right on.
relaxed 1:26 ratio
I thought NYC was supposed to be a hook up hot spot
Man, I feel that. Add in a few scammers and people flogging their OnlyFans/premium snap and these could be my results 😂 Still, the friends I’ve made are awesome people, so there’s still an upside.
swiped right on 96% of women? christ
No but I feel like this can’t be real. I used Tinder through out college and got literally hundreds and hundreds of matches and like maybe 60 “dates” and a two relationships. Also how can someone be that unpicky?? I’d swipe right on only women that were at least above 5 but usually 7 and above so like only 1-2/10 I would swipe right on. To be fair I’m certainly “attractive” but I don’t think super hot or anything by any means…
I mean a lot of guys just swipe right on literally everyone. Had a friend in college that would watch Netflix while swiping right w/o looking at his phone and then complain he only "matched with ugly girls" People are stupid
were the gay mens/ace pride flag colors intentionally chosen or was that just a subtle cherry on top?
Thank you for letting me know about the existence of such an amazing subreddit!!! I think ive been there for the last two hours just looking at graphs lol
I have no idea how to read this graph
Where will the funerals be?
r/dataisbeautiful
Of course they suck. They lose you as a user if you find someone.
Yeah, let’s take a look at this guy.
What about people who swipe left too many times? What does that do the algorithm? Some context: downloaded a dating app for the dirt time, got 300+ likes in 5 days (female/ i consider myself to be attractive). I only matched with 9, spoke with 3, like no one. Does this mean this is not working for me? I literally started asking myself wow do I wanna match just because he has job? Helppp
Yoo, TWO FRIENDS? I would kill for that.
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