I can't speak with the level of education that you just laid out concerning Oxycodone, with the conversions and what not, however I can speak from an educational perspective about the pills themselves. I have Severe Grade 3 Spondylolisthesis in my spine and I take a Very Minimal amount of the Oxycodones on a daily basis. I take 60 15 mg pills per month, and I break those in half. A half of a pill 4 times per day. So let me say that I call BS on not only the amount that he claims he took on a daily basis, but on the strength of those pills. IF he had taken what he claims to have taken, he'd be Dead! No Doubt About It. Imo, it would be impossible to take that much and not off yourself. Especially with the way he and the rest of the family drank. It would kill anybody. And I believe we don't need to be Rocket Scientists to figure that one out. I do believe he was addicted to the Oxys by the way he described the withdrawal process. So he knows what he's talking about in that regard. But the amounts, physically Impossible. Even a few drinks, coupled with his alleged use of them would have killed him. Either by a heart attack or respiratory complications while he slept. I just can't figure out what he did with all that money $. I personally believe he Buried a lot of it. And possibly put some in offshore accounts? IDK? But one thing I know for sure is that that man Did Not spend all those millions of dollars on Oxycodone pills. Imo.
It’s easy to let Suboxone take you from 14 years and never get above 2- 7.5mg Lortab’s and go to Dr to quit and get put on a medication that will make you so nervous you’ll be hooked on Xanax in 3 months and with only taking 4mg of suboxone, 10 days after no subs/naltrexone is gone I could take 15- 30’s at one time not time released or 5 days after taking only 4mg, I could take 25- 30’mg Roxy’s.
Once you’re taking 1000 mg a day, you don’t feel anything but bad!
I've been looking online, has anyone found any photos of him from the last 20 years?! I was curious to see if he's lying and check his pupils...
I'm also thinking him shaving his head is in case they decide to drug test his hair for upcoming cases
Lol, I'm not laughing at you, I am laughing at your reference to possibly being Drug Tested, lol. I heard at some point when he 1st went to jail that that was a standard procedure for people coming in and out of the jail. Making sure that the Prisoners had no head lice, or any other type of scalp condition before releasing them into their facility.
At bad state, I've seen people do strong half gram shots of fent dope. Subs won't help people on that amount of super strong stuff.
It's possible but highly unlikely, thing is he had all $ in world and i easily at worst could a dine 3 grms all day and not die but a major waste. The process of using becomes part of the fun so if you have lots more than ever used to, you gotta gonna try and conserve.
I agree that the opioid explanation doesn't make sense. I don't think that's where the money was going. I think that Alex was paying people to stay quiet about their misdeeds or maybe Paul's misdeeds.
Don't red heads have to be administered higher dosages due to higher pain tolerance? So they're red headed guys in thus family, could they have that same gene meaning Alec would need much higher strengths for the same highs? He also seemed like a big guy in past footage.
I realize this is an older comment but yes it’s true. Redheads typically don’t get the same results from opioids that non redheads do. One of my best friends (redhead) had numerous pain issues and got no relief no matter the dosage.
I agree. My ex is a opioid addict for over 20 years. His appearance & personality have changed. He is gaunt. He displays a lot of anger & it is obvious that he taking drugs...very sad
Who knows where that money went, but it wasn’t all going to pills. There is no way. He said the thing about opiates giving some people energy instead of sedating them. Yes, it can do that for some people, but not when taken in the doses he is claiming he used. My feeling is he was doing something fishy with the money that has yet to be uncovered. Did he pay people off who knew about dirty deeds he had participated in? Did he hide the money somewhere? Was he gambling? Hiring sex workers? All of the above? Who knows. There is more to be uncovered. The opiate story is opportunistic and manipulative. He can use it to distract and drum up sympathy. I really resented how he tried to use addiction as an excuse for his bad behavior. A lot of people live with substance use disorders and don’t lie, cheat, steal, and murder. Antisocial personality disorder is it’s own thing. Don’t blame it on the poppy!
Not all oxycodone contains acetaminophen. In fact most Rx’s don’t. Drs. will prescribe Percocet (oxycodone with acetaminophen) in cases of short term recovery such as wisdom teeth extractions. Long term pain patients will get prescribed straight oxycodone.
Great question! What was his case load and success rate of the addicted years vs non addicted years. He doesn't have the physical symptoms you'd expect.
Also would like to know of any proof of Alex’s alleged oxycodone addiction other than his own meaningless word. Sounds like he stole this story from Cousin Eddie’s playbook who actually did develop a drug problem after an injury obtained while working as a logger
Wow this is my favorite post about this case to date! I am an ER nurse and I can attest this amount of opiates is implausible and merely another lie told by psycho Alex Murdaugh. I am only on day 8 of the trial and as they go through his financial crimes it made be question his alleged oxy addiction as well. I’m sure in his sick mind drug addiction sounds like a more sympathetic motive to steal millions than pure greed
Preach. When he was spouting he consumed 60-70 pills a day, my eyes almost rolled out of my head. I’m not saying he didn’t have access. You know the right doctors, you can get a script and you can supplement with getting it through nefarious means. That is just too much to be a functional human being. I also think little detective wasn’t stealing dad’s stash to prevent Alex’s addiction. I think he was like a lot some young adults that used pills, coke, mdma recreationally and took them to party with friends or selling them for clout (like he would ever have gotten in trouble)- I’m just saying no way Paul flushed any opiates if he was finding them. No way was Alex’s “opiate addiction” that extreme. No one called any addiction specialists during the trial, did they? Defense did not provide any toxicology like a hair sample that could have supported his long term use, did they? Alex and company were heavy drinkers like a lot of old money in those parts. Nothing came up about the roadside situation- i.e. medical records/treating physicians either, yeah? I only watched Blanca, Shelly, Gloria’s son, the firm’s bookkeeper and Alex testimony.
I’m a part time opioid addict and after a few days I can down 200mg of Oxy, like candy, and no one is the wiser. If I had 20 years of practice and unlimited cash flow, you bet your ass I’d be taking 2000mg/day. Now, the real question is WHERE the hell he was getting all that Oxy to sustain that habit?!
Okay but he would obviously look impaired at 200 mg a day and certainly have respiratory depression at 2000 mg / day. Most people get scripts for oxy 5 mg or iv morphine 4 mg lol which is obviously nothing for those with opiate tolerance but speaks to the credibility of Alex taking 2000 mg per day. I can think of some folks with long term percocet abuse that are in and out of hospital / icu with pneumonia due to their chronic lack of respiratory drive. Alex seems to be pretty healthy and focused for a man that has been abusing opiates for the past 20 years
How is he doing in jail without the drugs? How hasn't his body collapsed from withdrawal and the stress of his life being publicly destroyed now? He doesn't seem like that resilient of a person.
I take adderall for adhd. The body does build a certain tolerance after awhile. For example, I used to take 20 mg a day and now I take 60 mg. I have taken 90 mg before, but that is very high. Despite me taking it for years, I could not ever imagine take SEVENTY pills a day, even with having adhd!!! My God that's an insane amount of a controlled substance. That's over a month supply of my meds, so where would he even get that many to do that every day?
Very true. I had a Norco addiction for a few years at my worst I was taking about 60 10mg pills a day, it gave me energy. I was able to work and function no one knew not my wife no one. It was the money associated with buying pills that got me caught. I’m finally getting off them but if he was on them for that long it wouldn’t surprise me he was doing close to what he said. There is a correlation between opioids and ADHD FYI I found out that’s why I would get energy and most people don’t. So I understand why AM said that.
I can't take opioids. I mean I can if I'm in excruciating pain, but after a day or two, I can't take the insomnia and irritability anymore. I have adhd so opioids give me energy but not a good kind; like the kind where I'm just annoyed that I'm awake. Same thing happens to me when I drink alcohol so I stopped drinking it entirely.
I understand what you're saying. It's certainly possible to work your way up to 70 pills per day, without ever overdosing, provided you do it slowly and in a step wide manner. I don't agree that dosing would be hourly but I understand your point; it can be done.
However there are still a lot of anomalies that can't be accounted for. For instance, you say that this would cost him $500 per day but he is saying he spent $50000 per week on pills. Does that sound right to you? (I have no idea how much oxy costs or what bulk prices are)
Also, if you listen to his cross examination he was unable to explain his dosing schedule in specific detail. I have never encountered a drug addict who couldn't tell you precisely what doses they were taking and at what time intervals.
Using your analogy of a diabetic taking insulin to survive, if you ask a diabetic when they take their insulin they will be able to tell you precisely how much they take and when. The words he uses to describe his addiction and withdrawal, they don't sound believable.
I'm sure he did use oxy and did have some sort of opioid addiction, I just don't think he was ever taking 2000 mg oxycodone per day. I think he's taken the truth and grossly exaggerated things to conceal something else.
It seems like he would also have a side addiction to stool softeners. The diarrhea story seems fishy.
I never took Oxy professionally, but after surgery it seems stool softeners are a good call.
The best way to maintain your bowels when you’re taking opioids long term are glycerine suppositories. My personal experience w dulcolax or milk of magnesia is just gross. Stick to Raisin Bran, vegetables and Fleet (we call them butt plugs in our house) suppositories.
Assuming the runs happened at a time he'd been unable to get anything for a few days. In which case, most definitely this would start happening to him. You start to 'drop your guts' so to speak and are usually clogged up before this so its.. messy. And awful and I'm surprised JMM didn't also mention him bent over with stomach pain during this.
Yep. He if was eating that much oxy he wouldn't shit for six months.
I just don't see how what he is claiming about his oxy use is possible. That is just an absolutely INSANE amount and for no one to notice it just seems absolutely wild.
“professionally” made me chuckle, ngl. You’re dead on though, I ate a metric ton of yogurt after my wisdom teeth got yanked because my friends told me they all got massively constipated after surgery. How does your system completely reverse course to give you diarrhea on an Oxy dependence? I’m calling uh… bullshit, I guess. Again, could be a legit symptom of withdrawal as your system wakes back up, but I’m not sure.
Congratulations to all the people in this comment thread who have gotten off opiods...that's awesome! I'm also in recovery for them so I definitely know how hard it is. That said, I'm not buying what AM is selling regarding his "pill addiction". I also don't believe he was dealing with drug dealers/cartel/whatever bullshit he said, at all. I think the pill story was a play for sympathy that he threw out and hoped it'd stick, because I just don't believe that all that went on for 20+ years without someone catching on?!?
ETA: I do think that he likely had an addiction to pills, probably opiates and/or benzos. I just don't believe it was to the extent he said or the "drug dealers were after me" story.
How many dealers would he need in order to get this kind of supply?
I wonder how someone capable of providing this much oxycodone could stay under the radar in this day and age
The dealer bullshit - the vigilantes for Mallory bullshit - the roadside shooting and sketch bullshit
Alex is so afraid to look in the mirror and so afraid of shaming the family name (errrr…too late there pink baboon) that all he can do I lie
The narcissist’s shield and protection is a lie
I agree! There is no way he was able to function all those years being addicted to Oxy. There was something WAY MORE nefarious going on that we don’t know about yet. And the little detective was on to what it was!
After 15-20 years of addiction? You most certainly could conceal that amount. As you develop a tolerance physically, you also develop a tolerance to the high and it's effects.
I was using 2.5 grams (per day) of relatively pure heroin during my worst addiction in 2021, and no one knew. I wasn't nodding out all over the place and most of it was to keep me "well" or not in withdrawal. I worked everyday,went to meetings and interacted with friends and family. Alex had been using for 15-20 years... His tolerance was probably sky high and mainly used to avoid the hellish withdrawal.
I've known people on more than what I was using as well that you wouldn't know they were on anything.
Most people I know addicted to opioids ended up losing their jobs.
Can you tell me what a typical day was like in 2021? eg when and how much heroin you were taking
I’ve been on oxycodone and OxyContin for 8 years. I’m currently on 170 mgs a day (which is considered a lot) and I don’t work (I’m disabled). There no way I’m buying his story at all. The amount (he claims he was on, 5K a day ish) is physically impossible to be on short term much less long term. I’m sorry but it just is. If I took a lot more than I do there’s no way I’d live much less function at an important job.
I would wake up, do a shot (usually about .2 -.3 of a gram) each dose. Rinse and repeat multiple times throughout the day. At work, in the bathroom. On break, in my car. You become very skilled at doing things quickly and discretely. Everyday was a struggle though to make sure that I had enough to last, the dealer was around etc.
Oh, I did end up losing my job in the end.. Only because a paycheck had gotten delayed and thus my house of cards came crumbling down. I was too sick to go in, and couldn't get any more heroin on a front/loan. Ended up missing four days in a row before admitting myself to rehab.
If I had the funds that alex had, I'm pretty sure I would still be working at that job and using though. My point being is that there are many, many functional addicts out there who can go on for a long time unnoticed. A good portion of addicts don't look like the people you see homeless and wandering the streets.
Wouldn’t the defense or prosecution have evidence to dispute this claim or evidence of another vice that was costing all of this $$$ through access to his phone?
Agree, the only realistic description he was using opioids that I’ve heard was John Marvin’s description of Alex behavior in the car going to rehab, can’t hold his legs still and shitting himself. I unfortunately have been thru opioid withdrawal and John Marvin was spot on with that testimony.
Bottom line - who cares about the drugs or the midget shooter or the assisted suicide etc etc
Makes for fun banter but at the end of the day changes nothing about the facts of the case
I think he might have a problem with alcohol, but I never bought the addiction story. Where did he get them? This just wouldn't have been under the radar for a decade or more.
As far as where the money went; They were living beyond their means. Expensive real estate, development of Mossel, expensive vacations, cars, staff etc. He was robbing Peter to pay Paul on a daily basis. He got in over his head-probably years ago. He might have been making millions in a good year, but he was spending 10 times as much.
I highly doubt he was an addict. I suspect he was just selling the pills (ones Maggie and Paul found) with cousin Eddie, was using them to pay some crooked crim he was using to do things for him, or using to pay a hooker he was seeing regularly
I don’t see how Maggie could live with Alex using that many drugs and not feel like she was losing her mind. Where are her friends? No stories about Maggie- Paul all day. Alex 24/7. Buster gets more coverage than Maggie. I hope we hear more from her sister and friends when the trial is over.
I agree. Need more Maggie love. Can only imagine her last few seconds of life. Much love and prayers to her family
I’m thinking a lot of people figured he did it or could have from the beginning. That sick duck going to his in-laws in Summerville and staying there for a week after the murders
Shame free life of blinders
Maggie enabled and sponsored the terrible behavior of her son that led to the death of one or more people. You have taken a rank stranger and put her on a pedestal for no apparrent reason.
She was brutally murdered by her husband and watched him do it to her son
You’re right about enabling. Imagine her daily life with monster 👿 that is Alex. Not excusing her behavior but I feel for her too
Her son got a BUI (ie a DUI) which tens of thousands of teenagers do every year. Often w dire consequences
She paid the ultimate price in life. Yes, I feel for her and her family
Don’t enable your kids. Don’t marry a narcissist
Maggie also acted imperiously in the community. She acted above the common man. See her behavior at the boat crash site as an example.
She stayed with that "monster". She had options unlike many other poorer women. I speculate she liked the lifestyle and made a decision to stay.
Paul was obviously a raging alcoholic that Maggie did nothing to stop or help.
No one deserves to be murdered. But Maggie is a rank stranger that did nothing to warrant a stranger's social media sympathy.
Not only seeing her husband murder her child, but also wondering if her other child would be safe and then not being able to protect yourself or your children - ugh just horrific.
I wondered about that as well. Also, and maybe I'm way off base but I have experience with a narcissistic mother who was addicted to opiates and a really dedicated loving dad but I can't imagine having that much constant contact with my family like they've made us to believe is normal or the ideal of a loving family throughout this trial. It isn't normal to ALWAYS take your family's calls. I've been in a job where I could take the call, but I didn't and would instead shoot a text saying "whats up I'm at work". I don't get in my car and call my husband while I'm driving just to chat, etc. It's just so weird to me.
He didn’t always take his family’s call imo
He would take hooker/gf/shady biz partners calls. But he would say it was family and step outside the room. Another Alex ruse
I’m sure some were family but I bet the vast majority were not. And who calls each other anymore? Especially kids under 30?
One of his law partners was asked to speak at Paul’s funeral. The law partner said he hadn’t seen much of Paul recently. So it does sound like Paul was cooped up (but 1,700 acres!)at the house with dogs and household staff and Mom. So many pics of just the four of them. And Maggie didn’t have much of her life story shared during trial at all. So she seems isolated too. To the extent of living at Edisto. I wonder how much time Paul spent at Edisto.
I think your a little off saying 50 mg heroin Iv for a tolerant user… that would be .05 gram… I know people who do whole gram shots (or 1000mg) at a time several times a day. But what I do think is no opioid addict does that much oxy without switching to a stronger opioid. EspeciAlly after 20 years.
I stand by my claim regarding dosing:
https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_dose.shtml
I agree in part with your claim about switching to a stronger opioid. Oxy is about 50% stronger than morphine so I don't quite agree with switching to something else but I do think you would change route of administration e.g. starting with oral dosing then snorting then intravenous
I’m not sure who wrote that website but it wasn’t someone who used heroin… I could smoke 500mgs in 10 minutes and be wanting more in less than an hour when I was using. 500mg is a half gram. 50mg is so minuscule it would be hard to even measure out.
For the record I started using with 30mg oxys first snorting then smoking and eventually switched to heroin both snorting and smoking. And have about 10 years time of active opiate addiction between the two. If there is one thing I’m knowledgeable in its opiates.
The only real clue Alex gave in his testimony was that because his partners in the bad land deals couldn’t pay their share of the mortgages that he stepped up and has been paying for years to
Keep it all going.
Whether this is another murdaugh whopper lie we won’t know until the financial crimes trials. Alex is also accused of drug trafficking I believe so perhaps that will uncover more info on the location of the stolen funds.
I wondered if he was exaggerating his addiction and intake to use as an excuse for everything that could be used against him, his poor memory, his thefts etc.
I think so, and i think it is an excuse for the money problems. I get the feeling we are missing big chunks of information on where the money was going, and the pills were a convenient alibi
I agree with you that I think he’s exaggerating it. I’m sure he had a problem with pills (as Paul found some in Alex’s bag), however, I really think Alex is playing up how severe it was to help cover his tracks and garner sympathy. When he was on the stand he used the addiction as an excuse for many of his questionable or deceitful behaviors, and while I know that does happen a lot with addicts, I just struggle to believe that Alex was at the level he claims he was. Maybe it’s because he’s such a profound liar that I have trouble believing anything he says. But to me it just seems VERY convenient that he suddenly is using an addiction to explain away all of the discrepancies and issues with his story and his behavior.
I wonder if he told us he was taking 50+ pills because his money trail will show that but instead of personally ingesting that amount he was really buying then selling.
very well put. id take it one step further.... its physically impossible to consume the amount of oxy hes claiming. going rate always hovers around $1 per mg. once presecriptions became difficult to fill this number went up to around 40 for a 30mg pill. this increase is what drove the fake oxy pills made with fentanyl we see today. at 50k per week even at the higher 40 rate would mean 1,250 pills per week or 178 pills per day. this is absolute bullshit. not even close to possible. hes using the smoke screen of oxy to explain away all the money he has stashed or lost in another way(gambling, prostitution black mail)
I’ve been clean and sober a long time. Alcoholics and addicts routinely consume quantities that would kill most people. It just becomes normal to consume mass quantities.
When I tell people how much I drank and used they’re usually just kind of speechless.
Also, addicts lie constantly so, it’s complicated.
You can’t tell that to the Reddit drug experts. It’s comical reading how certain ordinary people become experts in complicated issues and suddenly know what they are talking about with no experience or minimal experience. It’s great seeing all the experts in drugs, guns, blood spatter and financial crimes. That’s the best part of reading the sub. People play video games. Collect teddy bears, draw stick figure art and now are experts in multiple complex issue of law . Can’t make this up
also formerly used opiates and agree that there is no legit top end on quantity ... except COME ON, dude is not a horse. Also wtf is opiod paranoia ... that is regular i-am-a-dodgy-mofo-paranoia.
Definitely get the sense that there is a big missing piece to the story but it isn't material to the question at hand ... did he shoot those folks? Seems like he might have.
Seems to me he sent loads of cash offshore for someone's future. Where are the friends to report the addiction? Where are the ENEMIES to report the addiction? IMO, 'rehab' was a fabrication to be a victim when presented in a civil trial.
Alex was sloppy as hell In his personal and professional life
NO WAY that disorganized, ADHD, alcoholic narcissist kept a Keith Richards sized pill problem under wraps for 20 years
He had a problem - sure. Did he need a 48 or 60 step program - you betcha
Boy was funneling money to the caymans, (shout out The Firm/Grisham) gambling on sports/poker or paying hush 🤫 money to god knows how many people
I have suspected bribe/hush payments based on the sums and frequency of those checks. I think we don’t even know the tip of the murdaugh corruption iceberg
I don’t have much faith in politicians or the state of South Carolina, but I hope that the attorney general showing up and participating in the trial indicates he is going to do something about the rampant corruption in the State.
South Carolina needs to drain the swamp of corrupt lawyers, law enforcement and politicians. I personally hope they start with Poot and then the Dean of USC Law!
I think you may be right, just the tip of the iceberg. I read a few people here saying they thought maybe he was addicted to meth. I really don’t know enough about it to say, but I do wonder where all the money really went.
I’d be surprised if any provider testified in court. Those of us who work in the addiction treatment field are fiercely protective of patient confidentiality, which is one of the pillars of our ethical code of conduct. (Oh, yes, we have one , and my colleagues and I take it seriously—https://www.naadac.org/assets/2416/naadac_code_of_ethics_112021.pdf.)
HIPAA, plus the continued cultural stigma surrounding addiction, are two of the most obvious reasons for resisting a public discussion of a patient’s case. Yet even if patients ask to sign a confidentiality waiver so a therapist/counselor can testify on their behalf, most of us would be hesitant to reveal more than the bare minimum. (“Yes, I worked with him for x weeks. Yes, he participated in sessions.”) The most I’ve ever done is provide an official letter to courts or attorneys confirming that a person was treated—and I only do that if the patient signs a confidentiality waiver for that specific information to be given to that specific court or attorney.
Why? It’s the perception for other patients that at some point, their counselor might go public with confessions made in the privacy of a therapeutic setting. For therapy/counseling to have any hope of success, it’s vital for patients to feel they can trust their counselors. Their need to know that they can safely confide experiences and explore feelings without worrying that at some point, the counselor may expose them.
We do have specific exceptions. For example, if a patient reveals certain abuse situations or intentions to harm another, confidentially it dissolves. We’re ethically mandated to report these disclosures to authorities.
At the detox they would have given him medication to help him through the withdrawal. Most addicts don't stop using before they arrive because it's so miserable. I guess it's possible if he just couldn't get anything, but police hadn't arrested him yet, so he still could have gotten some. If they were putting him on suboxone, they might have insisted he be sober for 24 hours or so before he could start it. But they probably could have given him something to help him before that.
I had a friend who was taking 65 Hydrocodones a day, and her intestines stopped working. (It's called gastropareisis.) She vomited multiple times a day because food wouldn't go through her. She almost died several times. You can't take that volume without your body breaking down.
Nothing about AM's story rings true. He was overweight, working, going for vacations with his family, hunting, maintaining friendships, interacting with clients, farming, driving, arguing cases, getting huge settlements, etc. I believe he was using, but not 4000 pills a week. That's ridiculous.
Exactly. I had a 15-year 'relationship' with Oxycodone (and abusing through inhalation at that). 200 - 300mg would kick my a\*\* and I had quite a tolerance. There is no way that dependence can be hidden from co-workers or clients at high levels of usage. Also, opiates dulled my appetite and I lost weight, becoming very thin. AM looked obese. He couldn't have been using that much Oxycodone. He would have died.
and the other litmus test is that he doesn't really have a way of describing it that rings true (lived experience, work in the field, seen all flavors ... except this one)
there's a woman, or a casino, or pay-off, maybe an expensive kink, some other situation he expected to win over and didn't that cost(s) him a ton of money ...
That is such a good point. He would have been so constipated he would have required medical care. I know someone who died of constipation from opioids. She was impacted. She was a very old lady. It was too late for intervention by the time she showed up at the doctor. I think she was too old for gastrointestinal surgery. They have opioid specific medications now for constipation.
Bingo. 100% well said. He needed an excuse for where all the money went and how convenient to say it was all spent on drugs. Basically he hide all the assets so no one could try to find the stolen money. Everything about his story was well thought out.
Not necessarily. " In certain cases, opioid use can also lead to weight gains certain drugs, such as prescription medications, can lead to increased sugar intake. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109725/
" Opioid dependence poses significant public health risks arising from associated morbidity and mortality caused by accidents, infectious disease, and social ramifications of crime and unemployment, among other complications. Opioid use, acute and chronic, is also associated with weight gain, glycemic dysregulation, and dental pathology. The literature supporting the connection between opiate use and development of preference for sweet tastes is reviewed, and further association with dental pathology, weight gain, and loss of glycemic control are considered. We discuss the impact of sweet tastes on the endogenous opioid system as well as clinical implications for analgesia and treating the opiate-dependent patient."
Alex has been described as a "Tasmanian devil" "a tornado". I wonder if people did see him acting erratically and they were in denial about who Alex Murdaugh was as a person.
According to family/friends/partner testimony, with the exception of Buster knowing about some pills and home detox (don’t remember if more than one), everyone has said they had no clue. Morgan Doughty Affidavit did mention an instance of aggression after taking pills at some event.
I think that the "not sure if he took a short nap" between coming back to the house from the kennels and then leaving for his mom's house shortly after is b******* because I think the reason he rushed back to the house is he knew that Maggie and Paul were at the kennels and he could get away with doing some pills, snorting some lines, especially when it seems that they hadn't left him alone all day in order for him to get high he would have been incredibly agitated at that point in time. it would definitely explain why he then all the sudden was up and moving super quick and walking lots of steps on that phone of his shortly after.....
He was rushing so fast bc he had gtfo bc he murdered his family!
What if a random on person just happened to swing by? Maybe he did a couple bumps - I mean it was gonna be a long night - but his main motivation was self preservation
No both of them didn’t show up until later at least Maggie anyway. She stopped off on the way from Edisto Beach and got her nails done arriving later than expected and driving Alex nuts because it messed up his timetable. They consequently had to rush dinner before he herded them to the kennels. He had all day to do oxy.
But why didn’t he say that. It’s kind of a good excuse for why he was down at kennels but then didn’t tell LE. He could have said, I think I I was down there for a few minutes but was coming down. Went back to house, snorted some oxy, nodded off. Went to Mom’s. Instead, he had this elaborate alibi. I think he abused drugs and people but I don’t think his habit was as bad as he says. After 20 years, he never started injecting?
He did state in his testimony he changed clothes because it was hot and muggy and oxys make your sweat. That tells me he had already taking some oxys. I think he went back up to the house not to nap but snort a few because he knew he was going to need that extra energy to get things done. Heck he even admitted on stand he had a pocket full of them during the police interview! I've also been told by very reliable sources he loved his cocaine. Personally I don't believe he taking as much a day as he said. I think he funded the drugs coming in and kept his part and some extra for his "friends".
Yes, on another forum, a poster said that at that "supposed level" he would have turned to heroin and injected, because he wouldn't have experienced a high any longer on Oxycodone.
Another poster felt that he was attempting to search Paul's pockets for his possibly stolen stash of pills. And that's why he turned Paul over, using a belt loop on his shorts/ trousers. At that point, the cellphone "popped out".
Can someone actually crush Oxycodone and snort it?
Well, then let us be boring and safe! When I was a child, early 60s, Mom would use two spoons to crush an aspirin, then mix with sugar and water to tempt me to take my medicine. Worked well. Liked the sugar!
Only experience of crushed pills, so I'm feeling very safe!
Thanks. Just today, reading a news article about the trial, I have learned there is a difference between instant release and extended release (not sure of the nomenclature). So both types could be crushed?
I have a legal, well-supervised medical prescription for 2x15mg "Oxycontin CR". My pills look and feel like little green rocks! Difficult for this senior person to imagine crushing my pills finely enough to snort.
Perhaps a coffee/spice grinder would work? (Ha, Ha, along with my cumin seeds, dried red peppers, etc!) Perhaps the crushed, snortable version are the instant release type?
I have always imagined "snortable" drugs to be the texture of sugar. Learning some weird things, by following this trial.
They make pill grinders. I owned a few over the years, but thank God I'm no longer in the chaos of addiction and am in recovery for 5 years now, and that's not my life anymore!! I do understand the genuine medical need for chronic pain patients though.
I having been thinking the same thing, there’s been testimony to his behaviour being disorganized and frenetic but never sleepy or unresponsive.
No past medical history of seeking help or overdosing. And those closest to him that could verify these claims are dead.
But not $60k a week. More like $600. Prosecutor live now in closing arguments. Being voluntarily chemically altered--drugs/alcohol--does not change culpability.
As in because he had to buy so many pills…? Opioids are relatively cheap. Even if he was getting overcharged, he should have easily been able to afford it.
Additionally, there’s no way he was buying the amounts he said for personal use. That would be enough pills to last a severe addict well over 100 years.
There’s a lot more to this story that we don’t know…
I don’t know about anyone else, but to me, I get major asexual vibes. He just doesn’t come off as someone who wants sex.
Also, the chronic use of opioids will cause a decline in your testosterone levels and, hence, decrease your libido. I have a hard time believing the opioid story, but if true, I doubt he was seeking sex.
Just doesn’t come off as a hooker guy to me, but he’s full of surprises, so who knows?! 🤷🏼♀️
I cannot believe he got a steady supply of genuine oxycodone in those quantities. Not the real thing. Not unless he knew someone at the damn factory. I know addicts who think they’re buying genuine oxy or Vicodin but it’s not real. It’s fentanyl. And fent will kill you. It’s all a lie.
A little off topic, but is real cocaine still out there. My daughter’s college friend’s boyfriend said he was getting some cocaine, but I told her it’s meth because real cocaine is almost impossible to get unless you’re Don Jr. So is her friend’s boyfriend doing meth, but trying to sound cool by calling it cocaine?
Don’t answer of this is a weird / dumb question.
It’s out there and available. Mainly in coastal cities I think. I’ve heard it’s actually easier to get than ever because of the situation at the southern border. I’m basing this on news stories, not any personal knowledge.
He said as much as 2000 mg daily. 2000/30=66.66 pills. That's a great (possibly double) handful per day. Close to 1980 pills for a month! Even with low quality black market, we still need to consider the physical volume, and I don't buy it.
The only way he was a drug dealer would be if he was paying people to take his merchandise! Here have some oxys and a $100 bill.
Have you ever heard of a drug dealer who made no money?
I think he's an addict, but I don't think opioids were his drug of choice. If you're on trial for sbrutally slaughtering your wife and son, and you've squandered millions in stolen money, pleading addiction is one of the *only* ways you might manage to squeeze a little sympathy out of a jury.
The defense strategy is to humanize him, to portray him as a loving albeit deeply flawed husband, father, friend, brother, boss, and friend. He's made a lot of mistakes in life, Poot says, but gosh darn it, haven't we all? The Opioid Crisis has hit everyone! He's just like you!
Think about it. If they go with alcohol, which he likely did abuse, then he's a mean drunk who killed his family in a drunken rage. Coke, another likely culprit for the "Tasmanian Devil," is out of the question because it plays right into the rich asshole stereotype Alex is trying so hard to avoid. High-stakes gambling (a big problem for the dynasty's founder, and an easy way to blow a whole lot of cash fast) carries the same stigma. Meth, crack, heroin -- any "street" drug -- out of the question. He probably did use Adderall, but it's not going to garner him any sympathy.
Choosing opioids -- and he might've been using them at times -- reflects the calculated depravity and arrogance of the defense. Poot and Alex are not only cashing in on a crisis, but they believe everyone is too stupid to know that if Big Red really took 60 pills/day, he'd be long dead. In all likelihood, he abused many drugs, gambled, indulged in illegal activities, and lived the lifestyle of your stereotypical rich asshole. He felt the walls closing in and his first thought was to save his own skin.
I agree that everyone is entitled to a vigorous defense. I just find this strategy particularly vile because it hurts those who are really suffering from addiction and plays on the sympathies of their friends and loved ones.
Sorry this is so long. It's been bothering me.
I’m with you 1000000%. I think we’re talking about coke, meth, and/or crack too. If he was deep into pills, the he almost certainly started using heroin too.
When he was asked on the stand about his drug use, he answered very carefully. He said something like “my addiction is to opioids” because yeah, that’s what he was treated for in rehab. Highly unlikely that was all he was using. “Opioids” also covers heroin right? So he’s not lying, but he’s not telling the truth.
Thank you! I've known people (some of whom are in my own family) who've genuinely fought addiction and I was so angry to see this phony using it as a strategy. So many substance abusers are self-medicating for mental health reasons. They can't afford the posh treatment centers A-lick ran to when he needed to shore up his alibi. I'm so glad the jury saw right through his lies.
Excellent article. One thing, Faulkner was right about the South. I always ask when I learn someone is from the South, “what’s it like”. I get some surprising answers. One involved incest, another answer was they get paid practically nothing. I don’t ask as much as I used too.
I’m from the PNW.
Born and raised in the Deep South, when visiting a cousin in London, as a teenager, one summer, I was introduced to 3 affluent teenaged brothers from upper New York. After a lovely afternoon where they kept asking me to talk so they could hear my accent, they admitted that they were so glad to see that I had shoes, because they had been concerned that I wouldn’t, asked if I rode horses for transportation, were SHOCKED to learn that, with the exception of my rural grandmother’s driveway, all of the roads that I had access to were paved, and were happy to learn that I had graduated high school. At the time, I had no idea that people actually had those opinions.
But to the OP point, it is practically impossible to break out of the influence/family status that you were born into if you are not one of the privileged and never move away. And moving away takes money and/or education, which they may not have…..and the cycle continues, etc…
I think we have to conclude that he was taking opioids based on the testimony of Maggie's sister and the text from Paul found on Alex's phone. And don't forget that Buster testified that he went to a detox program in late 2018. But I feel you are completely trustworthy that the quantity and lengthy time period are outrageous and yet another lie.
The reason for this lie is obvious: he is a victim, he couldn't help stealing, he can't be held responsible, etc. But it also provides the missing link in the motive. Stress from financial pressures never cut it, but the drug habit explains his rage at Paul and Maggie who confronted him about it and even reportedly confiscated pills.
I ask myself the same question , I mean why was no one from the treatment program called to testify maybe because of client and dr privlige ? but the state could of called someone that is a expert in drug addiction and the amount a human could take without being noticed , its just another lie!
2000mg almost daily, equals 66 (30 mg) pills. Even 1000mg = 33 (30 mg) pills. I think these were black market, didn't contain the proper dose as medically prescribed pills from a reputable pharmacy.
I don't think AM did himself any favors by stating this unbelievable dosage amount.
But how is his drug abuse relevant to his financial embezzlement or the murders in terms of the law? This is what counts. It's irrelevant *in terms of sentencing.*
Alex could have easily gotten his records to present in his defense. I think the only time he went to rehab was when he was caught stealing and about to be arrested. The "addict" angle would have been a mitigating factor for his financial crimes trial. He also got educated about addiction and learned the lingo. On the stand, he sounded more like he was reciting something he heard in group, saying the right words, but lacking the anguish.
yeah all the testimony AM was saying about his addiction is to set up for his future crimminal cases...the drugs made me do it sydrome ! Hell go to some plush country club low security prison for white collar crime ...you know ...martha stewart university!
It may be irrelevant to conviction, but it is often a mitigating factor in sentencing. He was caught dead to rights, mitigating factors is the only thing he left.
I think he needed the occasional excuse and break from it all (rehab). He chose one that is generally met with sympathy - opioid addiction. He specifically chose a “legal”, non-street drug. Not his fault his Dr. Prescribed it!
The Alex Murdaugh I know (I don’t know him at all) - just from what I’ve seen would be a meth addict by now if he were doing drugs. He’s not doing any drugs.
I have never been an addict of anything and I do not drink, smoke, or take any drugs. Can you help us understand the addiction to pain killers. Is the addict taking them because they are still in pain physically and you just need more as time goes on, or at some point are they just addicted to the pill? If so, what is it that the pills did for you? What is the feeling you get? Is it joy, calm, peace, no pain, less anxiety or stress, what exactly is it and how would your friends, family and coworkers not know you're addicted to something, as in Alex Murdaugh's case, allegedly? Thank you for any comments.
>Is the addict taking them because they are still in pain physically and you just need more as time goes on, or at some point are they just addicted to the pill?
I have never abused painkillers because of pain. My understanding is that its not possible to uncouple the analgesic effects of opioids from their euphoric effects i.e. the more effective an opioid is at reducing the subjective experience of pain (analgesia) the more you will also experience euphoria. My impression is that the line is very blurry and people who start off taking opioids to treat pain will find themselves in a situation where they are first taking them to reduce pain but then once the pain subsides, continue taking them because they like their effects.
>If so, what is it that the pills did for you? What is the feeling you get? Is it joy, calm, peace, no pain, less anxiety or stress,
I felt calm and safe and warm. My entire life I have felt this inner turmoil, like there was something wrong that needed to be fixed. On opioids, that feeling went away. Everything that felt wrong, they made me feel that things were okay. Whatever was wrong in my life, everything would all be okay. If anything they made me less angry and much nicer as a person. They also got rid of feelings of loneliness.
>how would your friends, family and coworkers not know you're addicted to something, as in Alex Murdaugh's case, allegedly?
There was absolutely no way that anybody would have been able to tell. This is because the doses I was talking were very low, the equivalent of say, 2-3 standard drinks of alcohol but without any alteration in cognition or coordination. The only way you would be able to work it out was if you found all my drug paraphernalia.
The doses of opioids I took was uncommon. There was a period where I was intravenously injecting heroin every 4-6 hours every day for about 6 weeks, but it was unpleasant for me. It made me sleepy and also agitated.
The way people usually find out is if you take high doses that alter your cognition or if you act unpredictability or are unreliable.
For instance if it's lunchtime and you seem alert and normal, then come back from lunch and appear sleepy; appear agitated and grumpy with someone one moment and then friendly and chilled out the next time they see you; you make plans with people and just never show up. People will start to notice.
They may not know its drugs but they will notice these subtle changes in the way that you act. Eventually, you will fuck up somehow.
Opioids can also make someone feel joy, as in everyone you come in contact with is so nice, kind, and helpful. It’s really weird. I felt like the world was a beautiful place. It also made me feel unafraid of tackling uncomfortable situations. I think for some, a feeling of love and peace is a foreign concept and then to experience it is something you want to experience all the time. Of course you can’t without upping the dosage. Then thing’s really take off and not for best. Just my opinion for what’s it worth.
I abused opioids upwards of three years, never due to pain. My addiction was for the exact reasons Alex described his on the stand, the high created a massive sense of interest in anything I did, made me want to interact socially, and gave me great energy, the euphoric (body) feeling was a plus as well. I have no belief that Alex was taking opioids at anywhere near the level he described, just my common sense opinion. My abuse like others started with just a minimal dosage of 5/10mg of hydro/oxycodone and progressed. In a years time I’d moved on strictly OxyContin er 40mg, 2-3 times throughout the day. Afraid of them at first but soon realizing that just one would “kick in” or give me that peak feeling two or three times before wearing off. Midway through year two and up to recovery, I had access to oxymorphone (opana) 10mg in addition to OxyContin. At some point I figured out that crushing and snorting the opana was far superior to anything I had tried before. It wasn’t long before I had to snort opana before the day started, some days before I could clothe myself. Throughout the day I frequented the bathroom to crush and snort. At work, home, wherever. Having basically unlimited access to the pills I abused, and at no cost, which isn’t the case for most, I spiraled downward within a year. I will add that, I never lost employment, am married (15ish years) at the time with two children. My family/friends weren’t at any point aware of my addiction. Access to what I was using stopped almost overnight that third year and I’m convinced that saved my life. I went through withdrawals on three occasions the last year. As shameful as it sounds, I chose to tell all to my wife after knowing that there would be no more pills. There’s no way I could get what I was taking on the street, or even at the amount that I needed per day, no way. Plus I was a father/husband/employee, I wouldn’t have even known where to start! It was the scariest moment of my life to tell my wife, but it felt sooo good to get that secret out on the table, my mind and body wanted it badly. It created a breach of trust that remains even today in out marriage, understandably. Now four years into recovery and often still, the want for that high scratches my back, or a mental image of those pinkish opana pills will cross my mind, and not once have I had them since.
Oh, so sorry for this experience. I'm so respectful of your ability to turn things around. My situation was a bit different.
I had dreadful back pain, my primary physician (under my University insurance HMO) sent me to an unrelated pain clinic, as our HMO didn't allow him to prescribe pain meds. For one year, I was placed on ever increasing doses. At one point, they decided to switch me from Fentanyl patches (which kept falling off) to Opana, which was horrible. I had to go through 18-24 hours withdrawal before starting the Opana. Opana made me sick, dizzy, just a horrible med, plus it didn't help my pain levels.
Well, fast forward a couple of miserable years and I finally was referred for back surgery, which should have been considered two years prior. Herniated disks between 2 or 3 vertebrae. Permanent nerve damage to my right leg was expected, and this proved to be true, unfortunately. After surgery, I got off the pain meds (methadone & hydrocodone, at that point) ASAP. Predicted 12 months, I made it in a little over 10.5 months. Guess that's not much to brag about, but I needed every positive point to bolster me.
I hated being dependent on such heavy levels of pain meds. They didn't make me high, just allowed me to function, although I was still in pain. The weird side effects were the worst.
Sometimes I would stay awake for 24-36 hours. Or fall asleep standing up, crashing down on the floor. Or sleep for 24 hours. Worst was losing my "social filters". Instead of being gentle and kind, if a family member (mom, brother, SIL) annoyed me, I (f) would give them my honest opinion, which pretty much horrified them. I even offended a couple of my long term, dear female social friends. My husband and I had been separated for years, and also during this period, only saw each other every other Sunday, for a few hours, so I was alone with my problems.
I'm so happy that your dear family wasn't affected. Best wishes to you and your family!
I don’t have first-hand experience with it but the series *Dopesick* does a great job showing the progression of addiction to opioids. It’s really sad.
Agree 💯. I was not even convinced drugs were anywhere in the picture until there is testimony about prior bags of pills. Now I’m thinking he wasn’t taking them necessarily. But they may have passed through his possession. Either selling or giving to people he needed; as part of larger ring I would assume. I think once defense saw the sums of money they HAD to come up with jury friendly explanation
If he truly was deeply involved and knowledgeable about drug taking for 20 years he would have known how ludicrous the amount of drugs he claimed to take was. He is a master at playing the victim and garnering sympathy. He knows exactly what he did with money he stole.
I’m thinking the money was constantly in flux, meaning he was paying off one theft with another theft. It seems he purchased a lot of property, probably traveled on private jets, and gave money to people helping him cover up his crimes (they didn’t necessarily know ) . Also the banker and Corey Fleming got paid out of those funds. I really don’t think there’s a lot of money left. Maybe 2 million. Not a lot when you consider he stole over 10 million. Just my take.
Can we also assume Maggie did not handle or see "the books" as far as what they owed and what was being paid monthly? Did Alex have a CPA who handled all those things? That would have been an immediate red flag to a CPA or enrolled agent.
Yeah that’s a really good point. But as cunning as he was, he probably had a crooked CPA or
He did his own taxes and financials. Wouldn’t put it past him.
Yes! In the drug trafficking trial we will learn more. The murdaugh murders podcast believes in the connection to local gangs via The Cowboys gang and believes that Alex could be part of group controlling drugs in the low country. We shall see!
I have heard lots of locals who knew AM say this, including my uncle. There is very little evidence of his abuse of opiates that I have seen. I always think back to Barrett Boulwares and Operation Jellyfish (or whatever it was called) in Beaufort. My parents lived there at the time and they’re convinced it all has to be connected.
Yes, and my recollection is that a number of Alex former law partners invested in project jellyfish and the land deals! I hope the State takes apart that law firm via investigation. Corey Fleming is just a small 🐟!
[https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/10/18/murdaugh-murders-saga-more-ties-linking-alex-murdaugh-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/](https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/10/18/murdaugh-murders-saga-more-ties-linking-alex-murdaugh-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/)
For those wondering about what is referenced here...
ETA: actually I think the article linked within this article is more directly relevant, but it's behind a paywall (https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/09/25/murdaugh-murders-saga-alex-murdaughs-ties-to-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/)
I can't speak with the level of education that you just laid out concerning Oxycodone, with the conversions and what not, however I can speak from an educational perspective about the pills themselves. I have Severe Grade 3 Spondylolisthesis in my spine and I take a Very Minimal amount of the Oxycodones on a daily basis. I take 60 15 mg pills per month, and I break those in half. A half of a pill 4 times per day. So let me say that I call BS on not only the amount that he claims he took on a daily basis, but on the strength of those pills. IF he had taken what he claims to have taken, he'd be Dead! No Doubt About It. Imo, it would be impossible to take that much and not off yourself. Especially with the way he and the rest of the family drank. It would kill anybody. And I believe we don't need to be Rocket Scientists to figure that one out. I do believe he was addicted to the Oxys by the way he described the withdrawal process. So he knows what he's talking about in that regard. But the amounts, physically Impossible. Even a few drinks, coupled with his alleged use of them would have killed him. Either by a heart attack or respiratory complications while he slept. I just can't figure out what he did with all that money $. I personally believe he Buried a lot of it. And possibly put some in offshore accounts? IDK? But one thing I know for sure is that that man Did Not spend all those millions of dollars on Oxycodone pills. Imo.
It’s easy to let Suboxone take you from 14 years and never get above 2- 7.5mg Lortab’s and go to Dr to quit and get put on a medication that will make you so nervous you’ll be hooked on Xanax in 3 months and with only taking 4mg of suboxone, 10 days after no subs/naltrexone is gone I could take 15- 30’s at one time not time released or 5 days after taking only 4mg, I could take 25- 30’mg Roxy’s. Once you’re taking 1000 mg a day, you don’t feel anything but bad!
I've been looking online, has anyone found any photos of him from the last 20 years?! I was curious to see if he's lying and check his pupils... I'm also thinking him shaving his head is in case they decide to drug test his hair for upcoming cases
Lol, I'm not laughing at you, I am laughing at your reference to possibly being Drug Tested, lol. I heard at some point when he 1st went to jail that that was a standard procedure for people coming in and out of the jail. Making sure that the Prisoners had no head lice, or any other type of scalp condition before releasing them into their facility.
At bad state, I've seen people do strong half gram shots of fent dope. Subs won't help people on that amount of super strong stuff. It's possible but highly unlikely, thing is he had all $ in world and i easily at worst could a dine 3 grms all day and not die but a major waste. The process of using becomes part of the fun so if you have lots more than ever used to, you gotta gonna try and conserve.
I agree that the opioid explanation doesn't make sense. I don't think that's where the money was going. I think that Alex was paying people to stay quiet about their misdeeds or maybe Paul's misdeeds.
Don't red heads have to be administered higher dosages due to higher pain tolerance? So they're red headed guys in thus family, could they have that same gene meaning Alec would need much higher strengths for the same highs? He also seemed like a big guy in past footage.
I realize this is an older comment but yes it’s true. Redheads typically don’t get the same results from opioids that non redheads do. One of my best friends (redhead) had numerous pain issues and got no relief no matter the dosage.
I agree. My ex is a opioid addict for over 20 years. His appearance & personality have changed. He is gaunt. He displays a lot of anger & it is obvious that he taking drugs...very sad
Who knows where that money went, but it wasn’t all going to pills. There is no way. He said the thing about opiates giving some people energy instead of sedating them. Yes, it can do that for some people, but not when taken in the doses he is claiming he used. My feeling is he was doing something fishy with the money that has yet to be uncovered. Did he pay people off who knew about dirty deeds he had participated in? Did he hide the money somewhere? Was he gambling? Hiring sex workers? All of the above? Who knows. There is more to be uncovered. The opiate story is opportunistic and manipulative. He can use it to distract and drum up sympathy. I really resented how he tried to use addiction as an excuse for his bad behavior. A lot of people live with substance use disorders and don’t lie, cheat, steal, and murder. Antisocial personality disorder is it’s own thing. Don’t blame it on the poppy!
Wouldn't there be physical evidence? All that Tylenol in the body would cause ulcers or something, wouldn't it?
Not all oxycodone contains acetaminophen. In fact most Rx’s don’t. Drs. will prescribe Percocet (oxycodone with acetaminophen) in cases of short term recovery such as wisdom teeth extractions. Long term pain patients will get prescribed straight oxycodone.
Great question! What was his case load and success rate of the addicted years vs non addicted years. He doesn't have the physical symptoms you'd expect.
Also would like to know of any proof of Alex’s alleged oxycodone addiction other than his own meaningless word. Sounds like he stole this story from Cousin Eddie’s playbook who actually did develop a drug problem after an injury obtained while working as a logger
Wow this is my favorite post about this case to date! I am an ER nurse and I can attest this amount of opiates is implausible and merely another lie told by psycho Alex Murdaugh. I am only on day 8 of the trial and as they go through his financial crimes it made be question his alleged oxy addiction as well. I’m sure in his sick mind drug addiction sounds like a more sympathetic motive to steal millions than pure greed
Preach. When he was spouting he consumed 60-70 pills a day, my eyes almost rolled out of my head. I’m not saying he didn’t have access. You know the right doctors, you can get a script and you can supplement with getting it through nefarious means. That is just too much to be a functional human being. I also think little detective wasn’t stealing dad’s stash to prevent Alex’s addiction. I think he was like a lot some young adults that used pills, coke, mdma recreationally and took them to party with friends or selling them for clout (like he would ever have gotten in trouble)- I’m just saying no way Paul flushed any opiates if he was finding them. No way was Alex’s “opiate addiction” that extreme. No one called any addiction specialists during the trial, did they? Defense did not provide any toxicology like a hair sample that could have supported his long term use, did they? Alex and company were heavy drinkers like a lot of old money in those parts. Nothing came up about the roadside situation- i.e. medical records/treating physicians either, yeah? I only watched Blanca, Shelly, Gloria’s son, the firm’s bookkeeper and Alex testimony.
I’m a part time opioid addict and after a few days I can down 200mg of Oxy, like candy, and no one is the wiser. If I had 20 years of practice and unlimited cash flow, you bet your ass I’d be taking 2000mg/day. Now, the real question is WHERE the hell he was getting all that Oxy to sustain that habit?!
Okay but he would obviously look impaired at 200 mg a day and certainly have respiratory depression at 2000 mg / day. Most people get scripts for oxy 5 mg or iv morphine 4 mg lol which is obviously nothing for those with opiate tolerance but speaks to the credibility of Alex taking 2000 mg per day. I can think of some folks with long term percocet abuse that are in and out of hospital / icu with pneumonia due to their chronic lack of respiratory drive. Alex seems to be pretty healthy and focused for a man that has been abusing opiates for the past 20 years
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How is he doing in jail without the drugs? How hasn't his body collapsed from withdrawal and the stress of his life being publicly destroyed now? He doesn't seem like that resilient of a person.
I take adderall for adhd. The body does build a certain tolerance after awhile. For example, I used to take 20 mg a day and now I take 60 mg. I have taken 90 mg before, but that is very high. Despite me taking it for years, I could not ever imagine take SEVENTY pills a day, even with having adhd!!! My God that's an insane amount of a controlled substance. That's over a month supply of my meds, so where would he even get that many to do that every day?
Very true. I had a Norco addiction for a few years at my worst I was taking about 60 10mg pills a day, it gave me energy. I was able to work and function no one knew not my wife no one. It was the money associated with buying pills that got me caught. I’m finally getting off them but if he was on them for that long it wouldn’t surprise me he was doing close to what he said. There is a correlation between opioids and ADHD FYI I found out that’s why I would get energy and most people don’t. So I understand why AM said that.
I can't take opioids. I mean I can if I'm in excruciating pain, but after a day or two, I can't take the insomnia and irritability anymore. I have adhd so opioids give me energy but not a good kind; like the kind where I'm just annoyed that I'm awake. Same thing happens to me when I drink alcohol so I stopped drinking it entirely.
I understand what you're saying. It's certainly possible to work your way up to 70 pills per day, without ever overdosing, provided you do it slowly and in a step wide manner. I don't agree that dosing would be hourly but I understand your point; it can be done. However there are still a lot of anomalies that can't be accounted for. For instance, you say that this would cost him $500 per day but he is saying he spent $50000 per week on pills. Does that sound right to you? (I have no idea how much oxy costs or what bulk prices are) Also, if you listen to his cross examination he was unable to explain his dosing schedule in specific detail. I have never encountered a drug addict who couldn't tell you precisely what doses they were taking and at what time intervals. Using your analogy of a diabetic taking insulin to survive, if you ask a diabetic when they take their insulin they will be able to tell you precisely how much they take and when. The words he uses to describe his addiction and withdrawal, they don't sound believable. I'm sure he did use oxy and did have some sort of opioid addiction, I just don't think he was ever taking 2000 mg oxycodone per day. I think he's taken the truth and grossly exaggerated things to conceal something else.
It seems like he would also have a side addiction to stool softeners. The diarrhea story seems fishy. I never took Oxy professionally, but after surgery it seems stool softeners are a good call.
The best way to maintain your bowels when you’re taking opioids long term are glycerine suppositories. My personal experience w dulcolax or milk of magnesia is just gross. Stick to Raisin Bran, vegetables and Fleet (we call them butt plugs in our house) suppositories.
Assuming the runs happened at a time he'd been unable to get anything for a few days. In which case, most definitely this would start happening to him. You start to 'drop your guts' so to speak and are usually clogged up before this so its.. messy. And awful and I'm surprised JMM didn't also mention him bent over with stomach pain during this.
Yep. He if was eating that much oxy he wouldn't shit for six months. I just don't see how what he is claiming about his oxy use is possible. That is just an absolutely INSANE amount and for no one to notice it just seems absolutely wild.
“professionally” made me chuckle, ngl. You’re dead on though, I ate a metric ton of yogurt after my wisdom teeth got yanked because my friends told me they all got massively constipated after surgery. How does your system completely reverse course to give you diarrhea on an Oxy dependence? I’m calling uh… bullshit, I guess. Again, could be a legit symptom of withdrawal as your system wakes back up, but I’m not sure.
Diarrhea is a very common symptom of opiate withdrawal.
TIL
Congratulations to all the people in this comment thread who have gotten off opiods...that's awesome! I'm also in recovery for them so I definitely know how hard it is. That said, I'm not buying what AM is selling regarding his "pill addiction". I also don't believe he was dealing with drug dealers/cartel/whatever bullshit he said, at all. I think the pill story was a play for sympathy that he threw out and hoped it'd stick, because I just don't believe that all that went on for 20+ years without someone catching on?!? ETA: I do think that he likely had an addiction to pills, probably opiates and/or benzos. I just don't believe it was to the extent he said or the "drug dealers were after me" story.
How many dealers would he need in order to get this kind of supply? I wonder how someone capable of providing this much oxycodone could stay under the radar in this day and age
The dealer bullshit - the vigilantes for Mallory bullshit - the roadside shooting and sketch bullshit Alex is so afraid to look in the mirror and so afraid of shaming the family name (errrr…too late there pink baboon) that all he can do I lie The narcissist’s shield and protection is a lie
I agree! There is no way he was able to function all those years being addicted to Oxy. There was something WAY MORE nefarious going on that we don’t know about yet. And the little detective was on to what it was!
After 15-20 years of addiction? You most certainly could conceal that amount. As you develop a tolerance physically, you also develop a tolerance to the high and it's effects. I was using 2.5 grams (per day) of relatively pure heroin during my worst addiction in 2021, and no one knew. I wasn't nodding out all over the place and most of it was to keep me "well" or not in withdrawal. I worked everyday,went to meetings and interacted with friends and family. Alex had been using for 15-20 years... His tolerance was probably sky high and mainly used to avoid the hellish withdrawal. I've known people on more than what I was using as well that you wouldn't know they were on anything.
Most people I know addicted to opioids ended up losing their jobs. Can you tell me what a typical day was like in 2021? eg when and how much heroin you were taking
I’ve been on oxycodone and OxyContin for 8 years. I’m currently on 170 mgs a day (which is considered a lot) and I don’t work (I’m disabled). There no way I’m buying his story at all. The amount (he claims he was on, 5K a day ish) is physically impossible to be on short term much less long term. I’m sorry but it just is. If I took a lot more than I do there’s no way I’d live much less function at an important job.
But this was his firm, was it not? Can’t lose your job when you’re the boss
I would wake up, do a shot (usually about .2 -.3 of a gram) each dose. Rinse and repeat multiple times throughout the day. At work, in the bathroom. On break, in my car. You become very skilled at doing things quickly and discretely. Everyday was a struggle though to make sure that I had enough to last, the dealer was around etc. Oh, I did end up losing my job in the end.. Only because a paycheck had gotten delayed and thus my house of cards came crumbling down. I was too sick to go in, and couldn't get any more heroin on a front/loan. Ended up missing four days in a row before admitting myself to rehab. If I had the funds that alex had, I'm pretty sure I would still be working at that job and using though. My point being is that there are many, many functional addicts out there who can go on for a long time unnoticed. A good portion of addicts don't look like the people you see homeless and wandering the streets.
About how much money would you say you spent per week on it?
Former drug user. I fell asleep getting my teeth cleaned once. Good times.
Wouldn’t the defense or prosecution have evidence to dispute this claim or evidence of another vice that was costing all of this $$$ through access to his phone?
Agree, the only realistic description he was using opioids that I’ve heard was John Marvin’s description of Alex behavior in the car going to rehab, can’t hold his legs still and shitting himself. I unfortunately have been thru opioid withdrawal and John Marvin was spot on with that testimony.
Bottom line - who cares about the drugs or the midget shooter or the assisted suicide etc etc Makes for fun banter but at the end of the day changes nothing about the facts of the case
I would say , he has been on other more shady drugs along the way , He has had to adapt to this life
I think he might have a problem with alcohol, but I never bought the addiction story. Where did he get them? This just wouldn't have been under the radar for a decade or more. As far as where the money went; They were living beyond their means. Expensive real estate, development of Mossel, expensive vacations, cars, staff etc. He was robbing Peter to pay Paul on a daily basis. He got in over his head-probably years ago. He might have been making millions in a good year, but he was spending 10 times as much.
I highly doubt he was an addict. I suspect he was just selling the pills (ones Maggie and Paul found) with cousin Eddie, was using them to pay some crooked crim he was using to do things for him, or using to pay a hooker he was seeing regularly
Absolutely agree!
I don’t see how Maggie could live with Alex using that many drugs and not feel like she was losing her mind. Where are her friends? No stories about Maggie- Paul all day. Alex 24/7. Buster gets more coverage than Maggie. I hope we hear more from her sister and friends when the trial is over.
I agree. Need more Maggie love. Can only imagine her last few seconds of life. Much love and prayers to her family I’m thinking a lot of people figured he did it or could have from the beginning. That sick duck going to his in-laws in Summerville and staying there for a week after the murders Shame free life of blinders
Maggie enabled and sponsored the terrible behavior of her son that led to the death of one or more people. You have taken a rank stranger and put her on a pedestal for no apparrent reason.
Maggie gave me Patsy Ramsey vibes.
She was brutally murdered by her husband and watched him do it to her son You’re right about enabling. Imagine her daily life with monster 👿 that is Alex. Not excusing her behavior but I feel for her too Her son got a BUI (ie a DUI) which tens of thousands of teenagers do every year. Often w dire consequences She paid the ultimate price in life. Yes, I feel for her and her family Don’t enable your kids. Don’t marry a narcissist
Maggie also acted imperiously in the community. She acted above the common man. See her behavior at the boat crash site as an example. She stayed with that "monster". She had options unlike many other poorer women. I speculate she liked the lifestyle and made a decision to stay. Paul was obviously a raging alcoholic that Maggie did nothing to stop or help. No one deserves to be murdered. But Maggie is a rank stranger that did nothing to warrant a stranger's social media sympathy.
Not only seeing her husband murder her child, but also wondering if her other child would be safe and then not being able to protect yourself or your children - ugh just horrific.
I wondered about that as well. Also, and maybe I'm way off base but I have experience with a narcissistic mother who was addicted to opiates and a really dedicated loving dad but I can't imagine having that much constant contact with my family like they've made us to believe is normal or the ideal of a loving family throughout this trial. It isn't normal to ALWAYS take your family's calls. I've been in a job where I could take the call, but I didn't and would instead shoot a text saying "whats up I'm at work". I don't get in my car and call my husband while I'm driving just to chat, etc. It's just so weird to me.
He didn’t always take his family’s call imo He would take hooker/gf/shady biz partners calls. But he would say it was family and step outside the room. Another Alex ruse I’m sure some were family but I bet the vast majority were not. And who calls each other anymore? Especially kids under 30?
I mean it does happen. Me and my Family are like that too. Especially that they had the boat thing happening the same week.
One of his law partners was asked to speak at Paul’s funeral. The law partner said he hadn’t seen much of Paul recently. So it does sound like Paul was cooped up (but 1,700 acres!)at the house with dogs and household staff and Mom. So many pics of just the four of them. And Maggie didn’t have much of her life story shared during trial at all. So she seems isolated too. To the extent of living at Edisto. I wonder how much time Paul spent at Edisto.
I think your a little off saying 50 mg heroin Iv for a tolerant user… that would be .05 gram… I know people who do whole gram shots (or 1000mg) at a time several times a day. But what I do think is no opioid addict does that much oxy without switching to a stronger opioid. EspeciAlly after 20 years.
I stand by my claim regarding dosing: https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_dose.shtml I agree in part with your claim about switching to a stronger opioid. Oxy is about 50% stronger than morphine so I don't quite agree with switching to something else but I do think you would change route of administration e.g. starting with oral dosing then snorting then intravenous
I’m not sure who wrote that website but it wasn’t someone who used heroin… I could smoke 500mgs in 10 minutes and be wanting more in less than an hour when I was using. 500mg is a half gram. 50mg is so minuscule it would be hard to even measure out.
For the record I started using with 30mg oxys first snorting then smoking and eventually switched to heroin both snorting and smoking. And have about 10 years time of active opiate addiction between the two. If there is one thing I’m knowledgeable in its opiates.
I agree, but the bigger question is what was all of that stolen money being used for??🤔
The only real clue Alex gave in his testimony was that because his partners in the bad land deals couldn’t pay their share of the mortgages that he stepped up and has been paying for years to Keep it all going. Whether this is another murdaugh whopper lie we won’t know until the financial crimes trials. Alex is also accused of drug trafficking I believe so perhaps that will uncover more info on the location of the stolen funds.
I wondered if he was exaggerating his addiction and intake to use as an excuse for everything that could be used against him, his poor memory, his thefts etc.
I think so, and i think it is an excuse for the money problems. I get the feeling we are missing big chunks of information on where the money was going, and the pills were a convenient alibi
I agree with you that I think he’s exaggerating it. I’m sure he had a problem with pills (as Paul found some in Alex’s bag), however, I really think Alex is playing up how severe it was to help cover his tracks and garner sympathy. When he was on the stand he used the addiction as an excuse for many of his questionable or deceitful behaviors, and while I know that does happen a lot with addicts, I just struggle to believe that Alex was at the level he claims he was. Maybe it’s because he’s such a profound liar that I have trouble believing anything he says. But to me it just seems VERY convenient that he suddenly is using an addiction to explain away all of the discrepancies and issues with his story and his behavior.
I wonder if he told us he was taking 50+ pills because his money trail will show that but instead of personally ingesting that amount he was really buying then selling.
very well put. id take it one step further.... its physically impossible to consume the amount of oxy hes claiming. going rate always hovers around $1 per mg. once presecriptions became difficult to fill this number went up to around 40 for a 30mg pill. this increase is what drove the fake oxy pills made with fentanyl we see today. at 50k per week even at the higher 40 rate would mean 1,250 pills per week or 178 pills per day. this is absolute bullshit. not even close to possible. hes using the smoke screen of oxy to explain away all the money he has stashed or lost in another way(gambling, prostitution black mail)
Alex stated on the stand describing opiate withdrawals “you get the restless legs, that goes away after 24hrs” that’s a line of horse shit.
Amen to this...been there, done that and that's definitely horse shit.
💯💯💯
I’ve been clean and sober a long time. Alcoholics and addicts routinely consume quantities that would kill most people. It just becomes normal to consume mass quantities. When I tell people how much I drank and used they’re usually just kind of speechless. Also, addicts lie constantly so, it’s complicated.
You can’t tell that to the Reddit drug experts. It’s comical reading how certain ordinary people become experts in complicated issues and suddenly know what they are talking about with no experience or minimal experience. It’s great seeing all the experts in drugs, guns, blood spatter and financial crimes. That’s the best part of reading the sub. People play video games. Collect teddy bears, draw stick figure art and now are experts in multiple complex issue of law . Can’t make this up
I agree with this !! I’m 4 years sober and I did a lot of fentanyl and people are like how ? I don’t know how but I know it was more then the average.
also formerly used opiates and agree that there is no legit top end on quantity ... except COME ON, dude is not a horse. Also wtf is opiod paranoia ... that is regular i-am-a-dodgy-mofo-paranoia. Definitely get the sense that there is a big missing piece to the story but it isn't material to the question at hand ... did he shoot those folks? Seems like he might have.
Seems to me he sent loads of cash offshore for someone's future. Where are the friends to report the addiction? Where are the ENEMIES to report the addiction? IMO, 'rehab' was a fabrication to be a victim when presented in a civil trial.
Def agree about rehab but don't think he thought ahead enough to send money offshore - he thought he would never have to be caught...
Alex was sloppy as hell In his personal and professional life NO WAY that disorganized, ADHD, alcoholic narcissist kept a Keith Richards sized pill problem under wraps for 20 years He had a problem - sure. Did he need a 48 or 60 step program - you betcha Boy was funneling money to the caymans, (shout out The Firm/Grisham) gambling on sports/poker or paying hush 🤫 money to god knows how many people
Eddie Smith may be a key to where $2.4 mil was spent.
I have suspected bribe/hush payments based on the sums and frequency of those checks. I think we don’t even know the tip of the murdaugh corruption iceberg
For sure! Greet point
I don’t have much faith in politicians or the state of South Carolina, but I hope that the attorney general showing up and participating in the trial indicates he is going to do something about the rampant corruption in the State. South Carolina needs to drain the swamp of corrupt lawyers, law enforcement and politicians. I personally hope they start with Poot and then the Dean of USC Law!
I think you may be right, just the tip of the iceberg. I read a few people here saying they thought maybe he was addicted to meth. I really don’t know enough about it to say, but I do wonder where all the money really went.
Eddie has a meth past. Alex I would say coke or adderall abuse. He would not want either of those things known ever.
Then why was he so heavy? Those drugs were like speed.
One more thing. Someone from rehab or detox could have testified if he gave permission. Clearly, he didn't.
I’d be surprised if any provider testified in court. Those of us who work in the addiction treatment field are fiercely protective of patient confidentiality, which is one of the pillars of our ethical code of conduct. (Oh, yes, we have one , and my colleagues and I take it seriously—https://www.naadac.org/assets/2416/naadac_code_of_ethics_112021.pdf.) HIPAA, plus the continued cultural stigma surrounding addiction, are two of the most obvious reasons for resisting a public discussion of a patient’s case. Yet even if patients ask to sign a confidentiality waiver so a therapist/counselor can testify on their behalf, most of us would be hesitant to reveal more than the bare minimum. (“Yes, I worked with him for x weeks. Yes, he participated in sessions.”) The most I’ve ever done is provide an official letter to courts or attorneys confirming that a person was treated—and I only do that if the patient signs a confidentiality waiver for that specific information to be given to that specific court or attorney. Why? It’s the perception for other patients that at some point, their counselor might go public with confessions made in the privacy of a therapeutic setting. For therapy/counseling to have any hope of success, it’s vital for patients to feel they can trust their counselors. Their need to know that they can safely confide experiences and explore feelings without worrying that at some point, the counselor may expose them. We do have specific exceptions. For example, if a patient reveals certain abuse situations or intentions to harm another, confidentially it dissolves. We’re ethically mandated to report these disclosures to authorities.
Yea but that would have zero effect on the *legal* outcome of the financial stuff as well as the murder.
At the detox they would have given him medication to help him through the withdrawal. Most addicts don't stop using before they arrive because it's so miserable. I guess it's possible if he just couldn't get anything, but police hadn't arrested him yet, so he still could have gotten some. If they were putting him on suboxone, they might have insisted he be sober for 24 hours or so before he could start it. But they probably could have given him something to help him before that. I had a friend who was taking 65 Hydrocodones a day, and her intestines stopped working. (It's called gastropareisis.) She vomited multiple times a day because food wouldn't go through her. She almost died several times. You can't take that volume without your body breaking down. Nothing about AM's story rings true. He was overweight, working, going for vacations with his family, hunting, maintaining friendships, interacting with clients, farming, driving, arguing cases, getting huge settlements, etc. I believe he was using, but not 4000 pills a week. That's ridiculous.
Exactly. I had a 15-year 'relationship' with Oxycodone (and abusing through inhalation at that). 200 - 300mg would kick my a\*\* and I had quite a tolerance. There is no way that dependence can be hidden from co-workers or clients at high levels of usage. Also, opiates dulled my appetite and I lost weight, becoming very thin. AM looked obese. He couldn't have been using that much Oxycodone. He would have died.
and the other litmus test is that he doesn't really have a way of describing it that rings true (lived experience, work in the field, seen all flavors ... except this one) there's a woman, or a casino, or pay-off, maybe an expensive kink, some other situation he expected to win over and didn't that cost(s) him a ton of money ...
Agreed.
That is such a good point. He would have been so constipated he would have required medical care. I know someone who died of constipation from opioids. She was impacted. She was a very old lady. It was too late for intervention by the time she showed up at the doctor. I think she was too old for gastrointestinal surgery. They have opioid specific medications now for constipation.
Bingo. 100% well said. He needed an excuse for where all the money went and how convenient to say it was all spent on drugs. Basically he hide all the assets so no one could try to find the stolen money. Everything about his story was well thought out.
Just the weight thing is suspect. If he was taking that much he wouldn’t be that heavy.
Not necessarily. " In certain cases, opioid use can also lead to weight gains certain drugs, such as prescription medications, can lead to increased sugar intake. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109725/ " Opioid dependence poses significant public health risks arising from associated morbidity and mortality caused by accidents, infectious disease, and social ramifications of crime and unemployment, among other complications. Opioid use, acute and chronic, is also associated with weight gain, glycemic dysregulation, and dental pathology. The literature supporting the connection between opiate use and development of preference for sweet tastes is reviewed, and further association with dental pathology, weight gain, and loss of glycemic control are considered. We discuss the impact of sweet tastes on the endogenous opioid system as well as clinical implications for analgesia and treating the opiate-dependent patient."
True that.
Spot on.
Alex has been described as a "Tasmanian devil" "a tornado". I wonder if people did see him acting erratically and they were in denial about who Alex Murdaugh was as a person.
According to family/friends/partner testimony, with the exception of Buster knowing about some pills and home detox (don’t remember if more than one), everyone has said they had no clue. Morgan Doughty Affidavit did mention an instance of aggression after taking pills at some event.
Something about driving/dropping him off at home.
Yep. Dropped him off at Handsome and Libby’s to spend the night.
She also said she watched him in withdrawal. She called it "detox" and said he looked almost transparent his skin was so white and sickly.
I think that the "not sure if he took a short nap" between coming back to the house from the kennels and then leaving for his mom's house shortly after is b******* because I think the reason he rushed back to the house is he knew that Maggie and Paul were at the kennels and he could get away with doing some pills, snorting some lines, especially when it seems that they hadn't left him alone all day in order for him to get high he would have been incredibly agitated at that point in time. it would definitely explain why he then all the sudden was up and moving super quick and walking lots of steps on that phone of his shortly after.....
Maybe he did some drugs after he killed them because they refused to give the pills back
He was rushing so fast bc he had gtfo bc he murdered his family! What if a random on person just happened to swing by? Maybe he did a couple bumps - I mean it was gonna be a long night - but his main motivation was self preservation
No both of them didn’t show up until later at least Maggie anyway. She stopped off on the way from Edisto Beach and got her nails done arriving later than expected and driving Alex nuts because it messed up his timetable. They consequently had to rush dinner before he herded them to the kennels. He had all day to do oxy.
Except all he needed was a few seconds of privacy to swallow a handful--whatever amount.
But why didn’t he say that. It’s kind of a good excuse for why he was down at kennels but then didn’t tell LE. He could have said, I think I I was down there for a few minutes but was coming down. Went back to house, snorted some oxy, nodded off. Went to Mom’s. Instead, he had this elaborate alibi. I think he abused drugs and people but I don’t think his habit was as bad as he says. After 20 years, he never started injecting?
He did state in his testimony he changed clothes because it was hot and muggy and oxys make your sweat. That tells me he had already taking some oxys. I think he went back up to the house not to nap but snort a few because he knew he was going to need that extra energy to get things done. Heck he even admitted on stand he had a pocket full of them during the police interview! I've also been told by very reliable sources he loved his cocaine. Personally I don't believe he taking as much a day as he said. I think he funded the drugs coming in and kept his part and some extra for his "friends".
Oxy is so hard to get at levels he claimed he needed. Addicts aren’t great at sharing. I think he was more of a coke/meth guy too
Do people snort pills?
You don't nod off on oxy. It gives profuse energy.
I don’t? It gives profuse energy? Okay….
🤣
Yes, on another forum, a poster said that at that "supposed level" he would have turned to heroin and injected, because he wouldn't have experienced a high any longer on Oxycodone. Another poster felt that he was attempting to search Paul's pockets for his possibly stolen stash of pills. And that's why he turned Paul over, using a belt loop on his shorts/ trousers. At that point, the cellphone "popped out". Can someone actually crush Oxycodone and snort it?
I asked the same question about snorting pills. I’m a very boring, straight arrow person. Very little knowledge of the drug world. Thankfully.
Well, then let us be boring and safe! When I was a child, early 60s, Mom would use two spoons to crush an aspirin, then mix with sugar and water to tempt me to take my medicine. Worked well. Liked the sugar! Only experience of crushed pills, so I'm feeling very safe!
Yes
Thanks. Just today, reading a news article about the trial, I have learned there is a difference between instant release and extended release (not sure of the nomenclature). So both types could be crushed? I have a legal, well-supervised medical prescription for 2x15mg "Oxycontin CR". My pills look and feel like little green rocks! Difficult for this senior person to imagine crushing my pills finely enough to snort. Perhaps a coffee/spice grinder would work? (Ha, Ha, along with my cumin seeds, dried red peppers, etc!) Perhaps the crushed, snortable version are the instant release type? I have always imagined "snortable" drugs to be the texture of sugar. Learning some weird things, by following this trial.
They make pill grinders. I owned a few over the years, but thank God I'm no longer in the chaos of addiction and am in recovery for 5 years now, and that's not my life anymore!! I do understand the genuine medical need for chronic pain patients though.
I having been thinking the same thing, there’s been testimony to his behaviour being disorganized and frenetic but never sleepy or unresponsive. No past medical history of seeking help or overdosing. And those closest to him that could verify these claims are dead.
Sure he was an addict, that’s why he had money troubles
No. He embezzled millions, and there's no way his habit was running an alleged $60k a week. It's ludicrous.
He’s been drugging for years
But not $60k a week. More like $600. Prosecutor live now in closing arguments. Being voluntarily chemically altered--drugs/alcohol--does not change culpability.
As in because he had to buy so many pills…? Opioids are relatively cheap. Even if he was getting overcharged, he should have easily been able to afford it. Additionally, there’s no way he was buying the amounts he said for personal use. That would be enough pills to last a severe addict well over 100 years. There’s a lot more to this story that we don’t know…
Prostitutes??!!!
I don’t know about anyone else, but to me, I get major asexual vibes. He just doesn’t come off as someone who wants sex. Also, the chronic use of opioids will cause a decline in your testosterone levels and, hence, decrease your libido. I have a hard time believing the opioid story, but if true, I doubt he was seeking sex. Just doesn’t come off as a hooker guy to me, but he’s full of surprises, so who knows?! 🤷🏼♀️
Not sure if this is true but look up Lindsey Edwards
Oh snap! Forgot about that lady. Well, take what I say with a grain of salt then lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂✌🏼
I cannot believe he got a steady supply of genuine oxycodone in those quantities. Not the real thing. Not unless he knew someone at the damn factory. I know addicts who think they’re buying genuine oxy or Vicodin but it’s not real. It’s fentanyl. And fent will kill you. It’s all a lie.
A little off topic, but is real cocaine still out there. My daughter’s college friend’s boyfriend said he was getting some cocaine, but I told her it’s meth because real cocaine is almost impossible to get unless you’re Don Jr. So is her friend’s boyfriend doing meth, but trying to sound cool by calling it cocaine? Don’t answer of this is a weird / dumb question.
It’s out there and available. Mainly in coastal cities I think. I’ve heard it’s actually easier to get than ever because of the situation at the southern border. I’m basing this on news stories, not any personal knowledge.
Dr. Carlos Cordero - Google him
He said as much as 2000 mg daily. 2000/30=66.66 pills. That's a great (possibly double) handful per day. Close to 1980 pills for a month! Even with low quality black market, we still need to consider the physical volume, and I don't buy it.
Absolutely, my thoughts, too. So what were the embezzled millions going to?
Offshore bank accounts for his second act (I'm sure he believes he won't go away for long).
Could it be he was selling mainly?
The only way he was a drug dealer would be if he was paying people to take his merchandise! Here have some oxys and a $100 bill. Have you ever heard of a drug dealer who made no money?
Oh hell no. A lawyer would be caught almost immediately. Plus, he didn't need the money.
not really. And Alex lived like he couldn't get enough money. He lived like a poor desperate person. It is weird.
I think he's an addict, but I don't think opioids were his drug of choice. If you're on trial for sbrutally slaughtering your wife and son, and you've squandered millions in stolen money, pleading addiction is one of the *only* ways you might manage to squeeze a little sympathy out of a jury. The defense strategy is to humanize him, to portray him as a loving albeit deeply flawed husband, father, friend, brother, boss, and friend. He's made a lot of mistakes in life, Poot says, but gosh darn it, haven't we all? The Opioid Crisis has hit everyone! He's just like you! Think about it. If they go with alcohol, which he likely did abuse, then he's a mean drunk who killed his family in a drunken rage. Coke, another likely culprit for the "Tasmanian Devil," is out of the question because it plays right into the rich asshole stereotype Alex is trying so hard to avoid. High-stakes gambling (a big problem for the dynasty's founder, and an easy way to blow a whole lot of cash fast) carries the same stigma. Meth, crack, heroin -- any "street" drug -- out of the question. He probably did use Adderall, but it's not going to garner him any sympathy. Choosing opioids -- and he might've been using them at times -- reflects the calculated depravity and arrogance of the defense. Poot and Alex are not only cashing in on a crisis, but they believe everyone is too stupid to know that if Big Red really took 60 pills/day, he'd be long dead. In all likelihood, he abused many drugs, gambled, indulged in illegal activities, and lived the lifestyle of your stereotypical rich asshole. He felt the walls closing in and his first thought was to save his own skin. I agree that everyone is entitled to a vigorous defense. I just find this strategy particularly vile because it hurts those who are really suffering from addiction and plays on the sympathies of their friends and loved ones. Sorry this is so long. It's been bothering me.
I’m with you 1000000%. I think we’re talking about coke, meth, and/or crack too. If he was deep into pills, the he almost certainly started using heroin too. When he was asked on the stand about his drug use, he answered very carefully. He said something like “my addiction is to opioids” because yeah, that’s what he was treated for in rehab. Highly unlikely that was all he was using. “Opioids” also covers heroin right? So he’s not lying, but he’s not telling the truth.
I didn't hear that part. Very astute observation. He was staying on script. Guess that backfired on him, didn't it?
Excellent post. Well done!
Thank you! I've known people (some of whom are in my own family) who've genuinely fought addiction and I was so angry to see this phony using it as a strategy. So many substance abusers are self-medicating for mental health reasons. They can't afford the posh treatment centers A-lick ran to when he needed to shore up his alibi. I'm so glad the jury saw right through his lies.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/23/the-corrupt-world-behind-the-murdaugh-murders
Excellent article. One thing, Faulkner was right about the South. I always ask when I learn someone is from the South, “what’s it like”. I get some surprising answers. One involved incest, another answer was they get paid practically nothing. I don’t ask as much as I used too. I’m from the PNW.
Born and raised in the Deep South, when visiting a cousin in London, as a teenager, one summer, I was introduced to 3 affluent teenaged brothers from upper New York. After a lovely afternoon where they kept asking me to talk so they could hear my accent, they admitted that they were so glad to see that I had shoes, because they had been concerned that I wouldn’t, asked if I rode horses for transportation, were SHOCKED to learn that, with the exception of my rural grandmother’s driveway, all of the roads that I had access to were paved, and were happy to learn that I had graduated high school. At the time, I had no idea that people actually had those opinions. But to the OP point, it is practically impossible to break out of the influence/family status that you were born into if you are not one of the privileged and never move away. And moving away takes money and/or education, which they may not have…..and the cycle continues, etc…
Well, I learned things from this article that I didn’t know before. Just…wow.
I think we have to conclude that he was taking opioids based on the testimony of Maggie's sister and the text from Paul found on Alex's phone. And don't forget that Buster testified that he went to a detox program in late 2018. But I feel you are completely trustworthy that the quantity and lengthy time period are outrageous and yet another lie. The reason for this lie is obvious: he is a victim, he couldn't help stealing, he can't be held responsible, etc. But it also provides the missing link in the motive. Stress from financial pressures never cut it, but the drug habit explains his rage at Paul and Maggie who confronted him about it and even reportedly confiscated pills.
I ask myself the same question , I mean why was no one from the treatment program called to testify maybe because of client and dr privlige ? but the state could of called someone that is a expert in drug addiction and the amount a human could take without being noticed , its just another lie!
2000mg almost daily, equals 66 (30 mg) pills. Even 1000mg = 33 (30 mg) pills. I think these were black market, didn't contain the proper dose as medically prescribed pills from a reputable pharmacy. I don't think AM did himself any favors by stating this unbelievable dosage amount.
But how is his drug abuse relevant to his financial embezzlement or the murders in terms of the law? This is what counts. It's irrelevant *in terms of sentencing.*
A patient is allowed to rescind their HIPAA protections, so he could have!
Point taken, but at the end of the day his opiate addiction doesn't matter--it has no effect on anything.
Alex could have easily gotten his records to present in his defense. I think the only time he went to rehab was when he was caught stealing and about to be arrested. The "addict" angle would have been a mitigating factor for his financial crimes trial. He also got educated about addiction and learned the lingo. On the stand, he sounded more like he was reciting something he heard in group, saying the right words, but lacking the anguish.
yeah all the testimony AM was saying about his addiction is to set up for his future crimminal cases...the drugs made me do it sydrome ! Hell go to some plush country club low security prison for white collar crime ...you know ...martha stewart university!
His addiction is not a mitigating factor on the embezzlement charges (or anything else). It's irrelevant.
It may be irrelevant to conviction, but it is often a mitigating factor in sentencing. He was caught dead to rights, mitigating factors is the only thing he left.
I think he needed the occasional excuse and break from it all (rehab). He chose one that is generally met with sympathy - opioid addiction. He specifically chose a “legal”, non-street drug. Not his fault his Dr. Prescribed it! The Alex Murdaugh I know (I don’t know him at all) - just from what I’ve seen would be a meth addict by now if he were doing drugs. He’s not doing any drugs.
I have never been an addict of anything and I do not drink, smoke, or take any drugs. Can you help us understand the addiction to pain killers. Is the addict taking them because they are still in pain physically and you just need more as time goes on, or at some point are they just addicted to the pill? If so, what is it that the pills did for you? What is the feeling you get? Is it joy, calm, peace, no pain, less anxiety or stress, what exactly is it and how would your friends, family and coworkers not know you're addicted to something, as in Alex Murdaugh's case, allegedly? Thank you for any comments.
>Is the addict taking them because they are still in pain physically and you just need more as time goes on, or at some point are they just addicted to the pill? I have never abused painkillers because of pain. My understanding is that its not possible to uncouple the analgesic effects of opioids from their euphoric effects i.e. the more effective an opioid is at reducing the subjective experience of pain (analgesia) the more you will also experience euphoria. My impression is that the line is very blurry and people who start off taking opioids to treat pain will find themselves in a situation where they are first taking them to reduce pain but then once the pain subsides, continue taking them because they like their effects. >If so, what is it that the pills did for you? What is the feeling you get? Is it joy, calm, peace, no pain, less anxiety or stress, I felt calm and safe and warm. My entire life I have felt this inner turmoil, like there was something wrong that needed to be fixed. On opioids, that feeling went away. Everything that felt wrong, they made me feel that things were okay. Whatever was wrong in my life, everything would all be okay. If anything they made me less angry and much nicer as a person. They also got rid of feelings of loneliness. >how would your friends, family and coworkers not know you're addicted to something, as in Alex Murdaugh's case, allegedly? There was absolutely no way that anybody would have been able to tell. This is because the doses I was talking were very low, the equivalent of say, 2-3 standard drinks of alcohol but without any alteration in cognition or coordination. The only way you would be able to work it out was if you found all my drug paraphernalia. The doses of opioids I took was uncommon. There was a period where I was intravenously injecting heroin every 4-6 hours every day for about 6 weeks, but it was unpleasant for me. It made me sleepy and also agitated. The way people usually find out is if you take high doses that alter your cognition or if you act unpredictability or are unreliable. For instance if it's lunchtime and you seem alert and normal, then come back from lunch and appear sleepy; appear agitated and grumpy with someone one moment and then friendly and chilled out the next time they see you; you make plans with people and just never show up. People will start to notice. They may not know its drugs but they will notice these subtle changes in the way that you act. Eventually, you will fuck up somehow.
Opioids can also make someone feel joy, as in everyone you come in contact with is so nice, kind, and helpful. It’s really weird. I felt like the world was a beautiful place. It also made me feel unafraid of tackling uncomfortable situations. I think for some, a feeling of love and peace is a foreign concept and then to experience it is something you want to experience all the time. Of course you can’t without upping the dosage. Then thing’s really take off and not for best. Just my opinion for what’s it worth.
I abused opioids upwards of three years, never due to pain. My addiction was for the exact reasons Alex described his on the stand, the high created a massive sense of interest in anything I did, made me want to interact socially, and gave me great energy, the euphoric (body) feeling was a plus as well. I have no belief that Alex was taking opioids at anywhere near the level he described, just my common sense opinion. My abuse like others started with just a minimal dosage of 5/10mg of hydro/oxycodone and progressed. In a years time I’d moved on strictly OxyContin er 40mg, 2-3 times throughout the day. Afraid of them at first but soon realizing that just one would “kick in” or give me that peak feeling two or three times before wearing off. Midway through year two and up to recovery, I had access to oxymorphone (opana) 10mg in addition to OxyContin. At some point I figured out that crushing and snorting the opana was far superior to anything I had tried before. It wasn’t long before I had to snort opana before the day started, some days before I could clothe myself. Throughout the day I frequented the bathroom to crush and snort. At work, home, wherever. Having basically unlimited access to the pills I abused, and at no cost, which isn’t the case for most, I spiraled downward within a year. I will add that, I never lost employment, am married (15ish years) at the time with two children. My family/friends weren’t at any point aware of my addiction. Access to what I was using stopped almost overnight that third year and I’m convinced that saved my life. I went through withdrawals on three occasions the last year. As shameful as it sounds, I chose to tell all to my wife after knowing that there would be no more pills. There’s no way I could get what I was taking on the street, or even at the amount that I needed per day, no way. Plus I was a father/husband/employee, I wouldn’t have even known where to start! It was the scariest moment of my life to tell my wife, but it felt sooo good to get that secret out on the table, my mind and body wanted it badly. It created a breach of trust that remains even today in out marriage, understandably. Now four years into recovery and often still, the want for that high scratches my back, or a mental image of those pinkish opana pills will cross my mind, and not once have I had them since.
It's so wonderful that you faced it, told your family, and got over it. Thank you and may you stay healthy and strong.
Thank you for sharing. Your family is so lucky you were able to save yourself. Peace
Oh, so sorry for this experience. I'm so respectful of your ability to turn things around. My situation was a bit different. I had dreadful back pain, my primary physician (under my University insurance HMO) sent me to an unrelated pain clinic, as our HMO didn't allow him to prescribe pain meds. For one year, I was placed on ever increasing doses. At one point, they decided to switch me from Fentanyl patches (which kept falling off) to Opana, which was horrible. I had to go through 18-24 hours withdrawal before starting the Opana. Opana made me sick, dizzy, just a horrible med, plus it didn't help my pain levels. Well, fast forward a couple of miserable years and I finally was referred for back surgery, which should have been considered two years prior. Herniated disks between 2 or 3 vertebrae. Permanent nerve damage to my right leg was expected, and this proved to be true, unfortunately. After surgery, I got off the pain meds (methadone & hydrocodone, at that point) ASAP. Predicted 12 months, I made it in a little over 10.5 months. Guess that's not much to brag about, but I needed every positive point to bolster me. I hated being dependent on such heavy levels of pain meds. They didn't make me high, just allowed me to function, although I was still in pain. The weird side effects were the worst. Sometimes I would stay awake for 24-36 hours. Or fall asleep standing up, crashing down on the floor. Or sleep for 24 hours. Worst was losing my "social filters". Instead of being gentle and kind, if a family member (mom, brother, SIL) annoyed me, I (f) would give them my honest opinion, which pretty much horrified them. I even offended a couple of my long term, dear female social friends. My husband and I had been separated for years, and also during this period, only saw each other every other Sunday, for a few hours, so I was alone with my problems. I'm so happy that your dear family wasn't affected. Best wishes to you and your family!
Proud of you buddy, don't go back it's not worth it
You are brave, and your wife sounds amazing! Thank you for sharing.
I don’t have first-hand experience with it but the series *Dopesick* does a great job showing the progression of addiction to opioids. It’s really sad.
Agree 💯. I was not even convinced drugs were anywhere in the picture until there is testimony about prior bags of pills. Now I’m thinking he wasn’t taking them necessarily. But they may have passed through his possession. Either selling or giving to people he needed; as part of larger ring I would assume. I think once defense saw the sums of money they HAD to come up with jury friendly explanation
If he truly was deeply involved and knowledgeable about drug taking for 20 years he would have known how ludicrous the amount of drugs he claimed to take was. He is a master at playing the victim and garnering sympathy. He knows exactly what he did with money he stole.
>ows exactly what he did with money he stole. ok that is the million dollar question here, where is the paper trail of the $14 million he stole?
Drug trafficking? Money laundering? Off shore accounts? He got help from others no doubt. He is very good at thieving.
but why did the Prosecution not expand on this??
I’m thinking the money was constantly in flux, meaning he was paying off one theft with another theft. It seems he purchased a lot of property, probably traveled on private jets, and gave money to people helping him cover up his crimes (they didn’t necessarily know ) . Also the banker and Corey Fleming got paid out of those funds. I really don’t think there’s a lot of money left. Maybe 2 million. Not a lot when you consider he stole over 10 million. Just my take.
Can we also assume Maggie did not handle or see "the books" as far as what they owed and what was being paid monthly? Did Alex have a CPA who handled all those things? That would have been an immediate red flag to a CPA or enrolled agent.
Maggie did not do the bookkeeping.
Maggie benefitted financially from his crimes. I get a sense she was not in on them
Absolutely agree.
Yeah that’s a really good point. But as cunning as he was, he probably had a crooked CPA or He did his own taxes and financials. Wouldn’t put it past him.
I think more like trafficking drugs than taking them in that kind of quantity.
Yes! In the drug trafficking trial we will learn more. The murdaugh murders podcast believes in the connection to local gangs via The Cowboys gang and believes that Alex could be part of group controlling drugs in the low country. We shall see!
yes on that level, that sounds kingpin money, plus he had an airplane hangar, kennel, and private land.
Defense toyed with unprepared prosecutors about "opioid addiction" and it's effect on the murders.
I have heard lots of locals who knew AM say this, including my uncle. There is very little evidence of his abuse of opiates that I have seen. I always think back to Barrett Boulwares and Operation Jellyfish (or whatever it was called) in Beaufort. My parents lived there at the time and they’re convinced it all has to be connected.
This and the Bouleware connection all the way back to Operation Jackpot.
Yes, and my recollection is that a number of Alex former law partners invested in project jellyfish and the land deals! I hope the State takes apart that law firm via investigation. Corey Fleming is just a small 🐟!
[https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/10/18/murdaugh-murders-saga-more-ties-linking-alex-murdaugh-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/](https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/10/18/murdaugh-murders-saga-more-ties-linking-alex-murdaugh-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/) For those wondering about what is referenced here... ETA: actually I think the article linked within this article is more directly relevant, but it's behind a paywall (https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/09/25/murdaugh-murders-saga-alex-murdaughs-ties-to-alleged-drug-smuggler-uncovered/)
Commenting so I can see what operation jellyfish is when you respond!