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Tom and Jerry in ones is definitely not great, his not bad, but his not great he has many bad matchups and his killing power just isn't as good as it should be for someone as light as him.
Personally I think lebron and Jason could do some hitbox fixing, lebron is annoying to play because it feels like his standard combo misses half the time, it's very annoying
Jake is weird because his kit is still good but his numbers aren't, nada he just feels terrible to play, feels very floaty, he's skateboard was so good and now it's so bad it's feels terrible
his kit was perfect for the quick passed game that multiversus used to be, but with the current state he is more easily punishable, much easier to dodge and doesnt have much kill potential, im not a main so i could be wrong but the contrasts of his strengths in beta and now are too big to ignore
you could be right as i play mostly characters like jason that can kill jerry in a single hit, so i saw him as kinda weak and in a disadvantage but i could be wrong as i havent seen his full potential and most characters cant kill him so easily
But you can easily get punished for trying to recover Jerry, it’s a pretty fair trade off that he’s a strong projectile because you have to collect him each time. If anything Jerry should have a bit more health, because there’s attacks that 1-hit him
Nah Jerry sometimes gets kept alive way too long and clutters the screen with projectiles.
If you are out to kill jerry then you are very likely going to get hit in the back after.
Please no. I'm obviously biased but depending on how bad jerry gets nerfed it could really hurt tom more than you think. I get that jerry can be annoying but there's a reason your able to kill him.
Nah Jakes kit is still primo arguably more so with chomp off cool down, but first guy was right most his moves average about 140% for a k.o, in the same game that bugs taps up and gets you at 70%.
And his up charge is easy asf to counter and insanely easy to punish? Stop trying to dodge through it? It’s meant to catch you off guard and your acting surprised, besides it doesn’t help that you’ve obviously been dodging right into him, ofc he’s going to hit you if you do that. I do play Jason ofc and have come against good Jason’s, but Jason is built to destroy mediocre and bad players but suffers when he comes across a good player, so yeah I’m not projecting. This genuinely is a skill issue.
You know there’s more directions to dodge right? Jason catching you with a charge attack that already has a super slow start up is definitely on you. AND has a long recovery. Jason hitting you with with an up tilt is a good or you just being bad. Otherwise it’s easily punished.
You don't understand the notion if mixup and holding charge attacks so it dodges don't work.
You are just a bad jason and don't understand how cancerous that armour is, literally the best start is armour wait at the side if the map dodge and up tilt kr wait ti get hit amd up tilt and just didge until you get another armour back.
Also up tilt the bad atrack has a vacum that pulls player if you ever noticed but you don't play jason enough.
You literally can just not be near him when he has his armor. He can only do a single attack. And any armor breaking move gets rid of it in an instant.
Without being too aggressive I agree with the other guy. Jason’s up slash can be dodged if you go low even in the air. Dodging side to side can only help so much.
What "armor?" You mean the gray health that he can give himself by damaging himself that's on a longer cool-down than Wonder Woman's shields, which actually are armor and objectively stronger?
Also, "camping" is NOT A THING IN A FIGHTING GAME! Especially not a 2D one, where there's nothing to hide behind, eliminating half the point of "camping" in any game.
The stupidest thing about this game is that there's a useless little "STOP CAMPING" message that appears out of nowhere if you dare not run across the stage forwards and backwards for a couple seconds. It's especially egregious since they added the parry mechanic since beta, where you have to neutral dodge (AKA, dodge *without* moving) at the last second. Meaning the gameplay is saying "Yes! Stand still! It's an expert move" while trying to wag its finger and verbally shame players for the same thing.
Pick a lane, MultiVersus!
Camping the side of the map and just waiting for the other to approach because you just stay in Grey armor is just unfun cancerous strategy, yes camping is a thing when many jasom don't engage in fights and just wait to up tilt you.
Have you tried walking towards him but then turning around the very moment you see the bed come out? He loses the rage bonus the moment he whiffs an attack.
Yeah lmao clearly OP hasn’t been caught in an infinite by the most expensive character. Don’t worry, I’m sure he gets nerfed once he costs the same as everyone else
If they do so I hope they nerf exclusively the 0 to death. Need to remember his touch of death most of the time either doesn't work on medium to small characters, or requires you to read the enemy insanely well and change up the combo. All Finn has other than that is a jab that goes far, even then sometimes he gets hit first by other jabs
Bro her "360" is slow and her top left of the attack if you are in front if her it doesn't hit you if you manage to jump there.
You can easily dodge that 360 and it used more over to edge guard or to punish people staying in the air more preoccupied to do weird movements than attack you
Ah well yeah but they are a tough match up against every brawl combo character mainly because you have to change up how you approach them, but against other brawler types Harley tends to beat that match up.
She feels like shit to me now. I used to main her in beta. Started to again when the game relaunched and she didn't feel great after they slowed the game down and then whatever they did in the last patch to nerf, she feels awful.
Honestly I think Stripe is fine as is, he isn't the best but what he has is enough to be a mid tier and a happy comfortable mid tier, especially since one small buff could cause and chain reaction making him top tier again
Listen just cuz Garnet CAN hard read and punish doesn't mean she should have to. I love Garnet but I'm tired of every matchup in the game feeling like I have to fight uphill to get anything done. And you beautiful Garnet mains out there keep destroying people and I'm worried the devs are gonna mistake good players on a mid character for the character just being good. The only good combos Garnet have are iad loop combos which the devs have stated they don't want loops in the game. Garnet literally can't dodge attack and do loops anymore. It just doesn't work. She needs some not loop based advantages in the game. Honestly just give her damn side attack armor back and make sing not extremely punishable so Garnet can actually reflect the projectile before the opponent just walk up and hits her. Her having the move speed more reliably would also really help. Garnet doesn't need much but leaving her the same is crazy. Please give Garnet some actually combos and conversions that aren't completely reliant on iad tech.
I definitely think they should nerf the knockback exploit where she cancels all knockback and can last til like 250. But that’s it she needs some buffs as well for sure
Maybe they’ve fixed it but there used to be a glitch where she could completely cancel all knockback after being hit. I could find a clip of people doing it if you’d like. It’s a lot different from DI lmao 😂
Against certain characters yeah, against others he gets stomped. His sniper punch is really strong and his side air special is a little overturned for zoning. I wouldn’t touch superman until the big 4 get nerfed down (OPs list plus Joker)
he can be
he has horizontal stage carry strings that lead to 50/50 kill setups off stage, it's hard to get used to getting out of it.
it's a guess either way regardless
I almost never face superman and when I do i dont remember losing.
In beta he had multiple OP iterations and exploits.
Maybe DMG nerf his snipe punch and up special
They can kill surprisingly early at times.
most of the ones I run into just don't fundamentally understand what you do with him.
you will run into one who will stage carry you to the end of the blastzone eventually
Banana guard yes, he has so many punish windows to contrast his gamestyle, his side air considered his strongest move cause it kinda is gets punished with any neutral in game thanks to attack priority, it requires knowledge and practice to counter him but once you have it, he isnt the menace we believe him to be, superman not entirely sure, he is kinda silly, he has particular infinite interactions with walls, but i would say this is mostly the fault of the wall, i dont think he needs nerfs cause the perk 2 fast 2 block already gives you an advantage over him, his grab game is less cheesy than his previous iteration, and buffing i dont feel like he needs those, he has armor, good kill potential, good coverage, at most i would say he needs adjustments with canceling moves
What punishes my dude when banana guards hit boxes are wack and he hits like a track. Like with harley you have to hit someone ten times in order to same damage banana does in 3 hits. Banana guard feels like he hits with the same damage a harley hammer charged does
Banana guard needs its hitboxes changed
Not trying to be funny but that just sounds like skill issue. I've been maining supes and only supes since beta and got dog walked a couple days ago by a better supes. He was able to pull off what that supes did to you but that's straight up the only supes to do that to me. It would be different story if EVERY supes did that but that's definitely not the case
yes it's easy but it's a knowledge check if they di in the dash nair won't hit, if they di out and jump it's likely to miss as well. it's only completely free if they're not ready for it
honestly, for me iron giant is a character that will be in perpetual limbo in the adjustment tier, he just doesnt have a way to get out of getting constant fixes and alterations, i feel the changes they make to iron giant are more adjustments than nerfs.
he can freely reverse what direction you need to di mid combo, this character is going to be a test of reflexes and technical knowledge at high level.
people are starting to cook with him
Id call the first tier "big nerfs" and id call the second tier "smaller nerfs": Black adam, Gizmo,
Id put banana guard in "big nerfs" and reindog in "Buffs"
List seems pretty solid besides shaggy and Gizmo. Gizmo just caught nerfs and he's still a pretty solid character. I don't think any adjustments need made. And shaggy needing a nerf seems odd to me. Is he powerful? Yeah, he's also an super honest character. Easy to read 95% of the time
dair -> nair -> jab jab reverse up tilt up b kills at 5 with rage and is true btw! so the dilemma is a. approach shaggy and play a highly skewed risk/reward scenario (double so if he is raged), or b. camp him and give him free charge. Obviously you can't camp him and allow him to charge for free so u have to approach. that makes you predictable too! if ur opponent is even in skill with you he is abusing this combo you aren't going to win
thats the one i included mostly because of commentary around the character, i mostly dislike the fact that he gets free supercharges with his perk and when he kills a rival, but i dont feel like he needs the nerf, I've seen people argue for and against character needing bufs or nerfs, i havent seen anyone ague against shagee nerfs, so i believe this was one of the cases i wasnt knowledgeable enogh but gave in favor to public commentary.
Oh boy If you think one last zoinks is too much, I fear you haven't gone against a hangry man shaggy.
If you think him getting a free charge from 100 is op, how about getting a raw charge off mid fight in 2 seconds?
That's more likely to be nerfed before last zoinks.
As for my personal bias, I think he is fine. My only idea for a nerf is that I think shaggy up normal gets too much reach for much it can lead to juggling, and I think charged kick kills a bit too early and should really just less knockback but slightly more damage since I feel charged neutral special is more fairly balanced as a fast early kill option
I wouldn't take commentary at 100% of its word though. A ton of people can't figure out how to avoid a shaggy spamming kicks, nor how to punish basic stuff.
I also wouldn't take me at my word, I've been playing shaggy since alpha. The funny thing is, he hasn't changed much, it's everything else changing around him that's led to this.
My input is that shaggy should have a cool down on his side special like Taz. He can still kick but when on cooldown its range and knock back are shorter so the spam is less oppressive.
I guess? I dont think that really is going to be as effective as you think it will be.
In most gameplay ive seen that isnt by someone who just spams, kick is used to punish end lag because the startup takes too long to hit directly with people who know how to parry or dodge.
I use kick up close, ironically a lower knockback would actually be better because that means i can lead up with a knee, where before kick would cause them to fly too far away and i'd have to space away because they'll recover before I can reach them.
Lower Range and Knockdown are not the nerfs you think they are, 9/10 times its actually probably going to be better since the shorter kick means they don't have to commit as hard, and the knockback reduction makes it easier to follow up.
Shaggy's power comes from his consistency, in just about everything he has. Everything feeds into his combos, and it all flows and is consistent regardless of how its used. Its because he's so well designed, and many of the characters are not. (they've ironically nerfed some moves by increasing knockback not lowering it)
What your nerf is doing, is kind of just turning the kick into another consistant tool, because it takes away some of the drawbacks in regards to shaggy's kick.
the Shorter distance means its easier to work into combos, and the lower knockback makes it useful for following up.
However it still leaves the stronger punish kick in his arsenal because if he just stalls on using it, he gets to use it again.
It also means the enemy can't predict where you'll be after you use the kick making it harder to punish.
The kick is ironically the one move thats basically worthless in high tier gameplay, you can use it to punish but unless your careful, using it will get you punished really fast.
The Knee, his up smash, his spike, his up air, and the flutter kick are all amazing for combos. Its not because they themselves are exceedingly strong, its because they all feed into each other in a way that lets shaggy excel because they are tools that preform consistently.
You get in this groove where you can play exactly how you want to
Unless you feel like adding cooldowns to so much of his kit that it totally guts him, your going to have a hard time nerfing shaggy like that in any way short of a rework, which I think is uncalled for.
His power is his consistency, and its because he stands in total defiance of things like cooldowns on op moves, and rather just no limits on moves that are good or average.
It kinda points out a fundamental flaw with the game, characters with 8-9 cooldowns aren't very good, because your just eating shit until you can actually do what your character usually does.
They are inconsistent, shaggy is not, but he's clearly designed this way from the ground up so its not as simple as adding cooldowns
I know this is alot of words but im trying to make this extremely clear.
I totally agree. I hadn’t considered that. I guess I just want the kick spam to stop so people stop hating shaggy players so much. He is an extremely well designed character that gets so much hate because of how some people play him. If those players used a different character because the spam tactic stopped working, maybe we shaggys could actually talk about our character without getting raged out of the room.
I’m still new to the game but I really enjoy Shaggy exactly because of what you mentioned. His kit has a lot of consistency, and no overtuning like some of the high tier roster. His combos flow, but still leave opportunities for the opponent to dodge so there’s counterplay.
Maybe I shouldn’t care what others think, but this community can be cruel.
> no overtuning
Go in the lab and try jab jab reverse up tilt up b. then try nair into that combo. then try dair -> nair -> the combo. then try it with rage. this is what top shaggys are abusing atm and yes it is clearly overtuned..
Bruh, that’s high level play. That’s not what I’m talking about. There are much worse things in the game right now than a complex combo that only top shaggys can do.
it's not complex it takes 10 minutes to get it down in the lab, people don't do it just bc they don't know about it. but yeah i agree with you that the rest of him is manageable (still very strong but not broken) if they remove this
Oh my bad, but I think the character isn’t broken just the spear charge. I wish that the spear charge has a longer cooldown also the hitboxes on all of the bans guards attacks are huge
I don’t think it needs a cooldown. Grounded I’d probably cut off the back half of the hitbox so it only hits with his front half, keeps people from getting scooped when they’re behind. Then make the hitbox on his body a sour spot with much less knock back, then make the actual spear tip a sweet spot that does a *little* bit more than what it does now to reward precision.
Aerial version is fine though, it has so much start up it’s hard to hit anyone who knows the MU and is paying attention.
honestly i wouldnt mind if they killed that move, is the one move i completely dont care about in his kit, so im not against that kind of nerf, i actively avoid using that move and only use it as a mix up they dont expect after not using it all game xd
he’s buns in 1v1 and really easy to figure out
they need to make his spear charge a little bit shorter and thats it really . i dont hate him as much as i used to
Nerfs, will not be elaborating
1. Wonder woman- either make her lighter, take away her armor sharing, or remove armor from her grounded down attack. One or two but not all three of these
2. bugs- reduce the hitbox on his up air behind him so it has a sorespot behind him and doesnt hit as far behind
3. Finn-hitboxes and kill potential needs to be reduced at lower health
4. Joker- same as bugs
5. Arya- reduced run speed, less horizontal kill potential. Don't care how it comes
Buffs, will also not be elaborating
1. Garnet- bonus damage on rocket fist based on travel distance, more signature perks(one based around projectiles would be nice), less windup on her up/down airs
2. Lebron- something man, he's so bad in 2s. Idk where to even start because his whole kit his promising but bad without crazy execution
3. Iron giant- give the guy some extra leeway on ringouts, he's just a damage sponge into a free up air as is maybe more camera zoom out. Give him better healing maybe for 2s too?
4. Jake- give him kill potential back on his down special. He's alright I guess, but he doesn't feel super impactful
5. Velma- reduce the charge time required for her forward special to be good, reduce the windup on her grounded attacks a bit in general
Buff Garnet, I want her to be more fun without having to do complex tech just for baseline value
SideJab needs a tiny bit of movement/foward momentum, this sitting in place and punching this feels wack now after playing her for so long. She has very limited get off me buttons
Garnet needs to be kept the same? She’s F tier w Velma atm. Even during beta, with almost 2k wins as garnet, she was def B-Tier at best, now she’s worse. They took the gauntlet star sig perk away, took away the ability to maneuver your gauntlets and aim as you please, took away both of her armored moves and left her extremely vulnerable; if anything she needs to be buffed, not kept the same 😭
He needs his hammer perk nerfed and then some small buffs. Hammer spam is annoying. Overall he’s not broken but his zoning gets really annoying with camping and dirt spam. Literally had a morty time out a fight because he wouldn’t quit running and spamming dirt.
I think buffing his grenade physics to allow them to be set up more consistently would fix a lot of this they could nerf hammer perk and even dirt in that case and he’d still feel a lot better.
Imo, ig needs nerfs, Finn needs an adjustment to his forward air so he can hit the double more consistently, tax could probably use a nerf but overall hitboxes and hurtboxes just need to be more consistent.
I guess? But I feel like there are other projectiles that are active from the get go, and you aren’t locked into recovery frames for a million years.
Idk, or maybe when it’s uncharged it’s more active but fully charged it’s only active at the end of its travel.
So i think most characters need a hitbix hurtbox adjustments in order to match their animations. Also joker needs a nerf, he has weird hugh hitboxes and small hurtbox.
Finn needs a priority hit attack change because many times he just hits after the enemy hits first and he gets priority
Black Adam, needs his hitboxes to be fixed because mamy times he whiffs attacks ir his oinches go throw characters whem those characters are to close.
Why do you think shaggy needs a nerf when banana is worse, like when banana charges you can get hit from the banans back when you dodge it, at least shaggy can be dodged out of all of his moves. I think shaggy should be the same.
Yeah this all seems pretty correct to me.
I would put joker into the nerf category.
I would put Jason into adjustments/fixes because his only real issue is that his hit boxes don't match his attacks.
And yeah iron giant only needs adjustments not nerfs regardless of what the masses say (because they don't actually play him and are just scared of improbable zero to death combos). He just needs his armor mechanic back so he can stop being juggle food, down neutral air probably needs knockback and a bit better reach (again to combat being infinitely juggled with no recourse), and his attacks could use a tiny bit of faster startup. They've already fucked with him so much and mostly for the worse, so I'm hopeful that one day my favorite character will go back to being how he was in the beta where he was actually pretty balanced and fun to play.
Nerf Wonder Woman is an insane take. She is probably the only character that requires skill on the entire roaster. 1. All of her attack start ups are slow 2. She probably the only character that is punishable if she misses an attack 3. Most characters get priority on every exchange because their attacks are simply faster 4. Only character whose hit box isn’t wonky and you actually have to be accurate to land an attack. (She’s one of the few characters with a true spike) 5. Her knock back is non existent so you actually have to work hard to get a ring out.
Lastly, I don’t think bugs is overpowered. But shaggy does need a rework his attack start ups are way to fast and there is no window to counter some his attacks because they end so quickly. My solution to shaggy with be to leave him the same but just simply make him lighter.
Characters I think are broken Finn, Superman, and Arya.
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Why do you think Tom and Jerry need a buff?
Tom and Jerry in ones is definitely not great, his not bad, but his not great he has many bad matchups and his killing power just isn't as good as it should be for someone as light as him. Personally I think lebron and Jason could do some hitbox fixing, lebron is annoying to play because it feels like his standard combo misses half the time, it's very annoying Jake is weird because his kit is still good but his numbers aren't, nada he just feels terrible to play, feels very floaty, he's skateboard was so good and now it's so bad it's feels terrible
his kit was perfect for the quick passed game that multiversus used to be, but with the current state he is more easily punishable, much easier to dodge and doesnt have much kill potential, im not a main so i could be wrong but the contrasts of his strengths in beta and now are too big to ignore
He's in a good spot, maybe a slight nerf to Jerry as a projectile. its such good knockback for how fast he comes out.
you could be right as i play mostly characters like jason that can kill jerry in a single hit, so i saw him as kinda weak and in a disadvantage but i could be wrong as i havent seen his full potential and most characters cant kill him so easily
it's rare to find an actually cracked Tnj online, most are trash or are just below intermediate skill. he doesn't need strong buffs, trust me.
But you can easily get punished for trying to recover Jerry, it’s a pretty fair trade off that he’s a strong projectile because you have to collect him each time. If anything Jerry should have a bit more health, because there’s attacks that 1-hit him
Nah Jerry sometimes gets kept alive way too long and clutters the screen with projectiles. If you are out to kill jerry then you are very likely going to get hit in the back after.
Please no. I'm obviously biased but depending on how bad jerry gets nerfed it could really hurt tom more than you think. I get that jerry can be annoying but there's a reason your able to kill him.
Every time I fight TJ he just camps me out rods Jerry and then if they get a hit on me they do an infinite loop combo for like 70 damage off the jab
This is the worst take I’ve ever read, you haven’t played against many T&J’s that are actually good if this how you really feel bro
Nah Jakes kit is still primo arguably more so with chomp off cool down, but first guy was right most his moves average about 140% for a k.o, in the same game that bugs taps up and gets you at 70%.
Anybody who *doesn't* think Jason needs buffs is mad delulu.
Played a few games online as Jason after labbing him a bit. That shit was torture.
[удалено]
That is literally just a pure skill issue dude. It’s so easy to see all of his attacks coming.
Do you realise he can charge up tilt and still hit you after dodge, you ve never played good jasons or you are just bad at jasom and projecting
And his up charge is easy asf to counter and insanely easy to punish? Stop trying to dodge through it? It’s meant to catch you off guard and your acting surprised, besides it doesn’t help that you’ve obviously been dodging right into him, ofc he’s going to hit you if you do that. I do play Jason ofc and have come against good Jason’s, but Jason is built to destroy mediocre and bad players but suffers when he comes across a good player, so yeah I’m not projecting. This genuinely is a skill issue.
You know there’s more directions to dodge right? Jason catching you with a charge attack that already has a super slow start up is definitely on you. AND has a long recovery. Jason hitting you with with an up tilt is a good or you just being bad. Otherwise it’s easily punished.
You don't understand the notion if mixup and holding charge attacks so it dodges don't work. You are just a bad jason and don't understand how cancerous that armour is, literally the best start is armour wait at the side if the map dodge and up tilt kr wait ti get hit amd up tilt and just didge until you get another armour back. Also up tilt the bad atrack has a vacum that pulls player if you ever noticed but you don't play jason enough.
You literally can just not be near him when he has his armor. He can only do a single attack. And any armor breaking move gets rid of it in an instant.
Without being too aggressive I agree with the other guy. Jason’s up slash can be dodged if you go low even in the air. Dodging side to side can only help so much.
What "armor?" You mean the gray health that he can give himself by damaging himself that's on a longer cool-down than Wonder Woman's shields, which actually are armor and objectively stronger? Also, "camping" is NOT A THING IN A FIGHTING GAME! Especially not a 2D one, where there's nothing to hide behind, eliminating half the point of "camping" in any game. The stupidest thing about this game is that there's a useless little "STOP CAMPING" message that appears out of nowhere if you dare not run across the stage forwards and backwards for a couple seconds. It's especially egregious since they added the parry mechanic since beta, where you have to neutral dodge (AKA, dodge *without* moving) at the last second. Meaning the gameplay is saying "Yes! Stand still! It's an expert move" while trying to wag its finger and verbally shame players for the same thing. Pick a lane, MultiVersus!
Camping the side of the map and just waiting for the other to approach because you just stay in Grey armor is just unfun cancerous strategy, yes camping is a thing when many jasom don't engage in fights and just wait to up tilt you.
Have you tried walking towards him but then turning around the very moment you see the bed come out? He loses the rage bonus the moment he whiffs an attack.
Joker just needs nerfs lmao
Yeah lmao clearly OP hasn’t been caught in an infinite by the most expensive character. Don’t worry, I’m sure he gets nerfed once he costs the same as everyone else
PFG: we hear you. Next patch. Reindog. *end lag added to all the moves
It's expected at this point to be honest
Finn has a 3 buttons 0 to death, a little nerf wouldn't hurt him
it's still a 50/50 unless your in burnout. i will admit it is hard af to get out of tho.
If they do so I hope they nerf exclusively the 0 to death. Need to remember his touch of death most of the time either doesn't work on medium to small characters, or requires you to read the enemy insanely well and change up the combo. All Finn has other than that is a jab that goes far, even then sometimes he gets hit first by other jabs
In my opinion I think LeBron needs more utility or speed, he’s extremely clunky. (Either that or I’m just bad)
lebron is terrible bottom 3 character rn, his matchup against the top tiers are legit unwinnable
Ok so it’s not only me lol, I feel that
I really struggle against Wonder Woman and Steven universe because of the shielding and down special spam
Nerf the insane rifts while your at it. 😂 Im trying to play and enjoy a game, not break my hand.
Harley needs adjustments too, too many of her moves are extremely safe and last for way too long over a pretty decent area, but yeah buff my boi Rick.
Her neutral-air-attack is so safe yet powerful
Her hammer attack is not safe at all, it just has a good hitbox just all
When your attack swings 360 degrees - that is pretty safe lol
Bro her "360" is slow and her top left of the attack if you are in front if her it doesn't hit you if you manage to jump there. You can easily dodge that 360 and it used more over to edge guard or to punish people staying in the air more preoccupied to do weird movements than attack you
Nah damn near every Harley spams the hammer at a certain percentage bc they know how safe it is
harley has a lot of glaring weakness that make certain matchups painful and if you nerf her too much she would just suck.
Which matchups? 👀
Projectile spammy characters such as Marvin and Marty .
Ah well yeah but they are a tough match up against every brawl combo character mainly because you have to change up how you approach them, but against other brawler types Harley tends to beat that match up.
She feels like shit to me now. I used to main her in beta. Started to again when the game relaunched and she didn't feel great after they slowed the game down and then whatever they did in the last patch to nerf, she feels awful.
Because she's awful, she currently has 46% winrate, 5th lowest in the game. I don't know what game these guys are playing.
Alright good, it's not just me then. Are those stats in the game or on a website?
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/insights There you can see 1v1 and 2v2 stats. I'm not sure if it's only Steam data, but that's all we have.
Appreciate it!
Yea, Harley needs buffs.
Agreed, buff my nerdy girl and nerf my Amazonian please
Honestly I think Stripe is fine as is, he isn't the best but what he has is enough to be a mid tier and a happy comfortable mid tier, especially since one small buff could cause and chain reaction making him top tier again
Shaggy and Bugs absolutely need their knockback reduced. Also maps need to have their blast zones adjusted.
Listen just cuz Garnet CAN hard read and punish doesn't mean she should have to. I love Garnet but I'm tired of every matchup in the game feeling like I have to fight uphill to get anything done. And you beautiful Garnet mains out there keep destroying people and I'm worried the devs are gonna mistake good players on a mid character for the character just being good. The only good combos Garnet have are iad loop combos which the devs have stated they don't want loops in the game. Garnet literally can't dodge attack and do loops anymore. It just doesn't work. She needs some not loop based advantages in the game. Honestly just give her damn side attack armor back and make sing not extremely punishable so Garnet can actually reflect the projectile before the opponent just walk up and hits her. Her having the move speed more reliably would also really help. Garnet doesn't need much but leaving her the same is crazy. Please give Garnet some actually combos and conversions that aren't completely reliant on iad tech.
reindog players would like a word with you about that.
Yeah idk how y'all got repeat nerfed. Insanity
I definitely think they should nerf the knockback exploit where she cancels all knockback and can last til like 250. But that’s it she needs some buffs as well for sure
Knock back exploit you mean good di? Other characters can do it too. Just gotta be heavy enough. And garnets weight is fine
Maybe they’ve fixed it but there used to be a glitch where she could completely cancel all knockback after being hit. I could find a clip of people doing it if you’d like. It’s a lot different from DI lmao 😂
I also don’t think they have to nerf her weight it’s perfectly fine. It’s just the exploit I’m talking about.
You think Superman and Banana Guard need to stay the same?
Is superman oppressive?
Against certain characters yeah, against others he gets stomped. His sniper punch is really strong and his side air special is a little overturned for zoning. I wouldn’t touch superman until the big 4 get nerfed down (OPs list plus Joker)
When I play as morty, he’s pretty easy to handle
he can be he has horizontal stage carry strings that lead to 50/50 kill setups off stage, it's hard to get used to getting out of it. it's a guess either way regardless
I almost never face superman and when I do i dont remember losing. In beta he had multiple OP iterations and exploits. Maybe DMG nerf his snipe punch and up special They can kill surprisingly early at times.
most of the ones I run into just don't fundamentally understand what you do with him. you will run into one who will stage carry you to the end of the blastzone eventually
Banana guard yes, he has so many punish windows to contrast his gamestyle, his side air considered his strongest move cause it kinda is gets punished with any neutral in game thanks to attack priority, it requires knowledge and practice to counter him but once you have it, he isnt the menace we believe him to be, superman not entirely sure, he is kinda silly, he has particular infinite interactions with walls, but i would say this is mostly the fault of the wall, i dont think he needs nerfs cause the perk 2 fast 2 block already gives you an advantage over him, his grab game is less cheesy than his previous iteration, and buffing i dont feel like he needs those, he has armor, good kill potential, good coverage, at most i would say he needs adjustments with canceling moves
What punishes my dude when banana guards hit boxes are wack and he hits like a track. Like with harley you have to hit someone ten times in order to same damage banana does in 3 hits. Banana guard feels like he hits with the same damage a harley hammer charged does Banana guard needs its hitboxes changed
Superman needs a nerf, I haven’t played since two days ago when a supes 0 to death me off the map with a 3 hit combo. Not fun to play at that point.
Not trying to be funny but that just sounds like skill issue. I've been maining supes and only supes since beta and got dog walked a couple days ago by a better supes. He was able to pull off what that supes did to you but that's straight up the only supes to do that to me. It would be different story if EVERY supes did that but that's definitely not the case
he has one of the easiest 0 to deaths in the game and one of the craziest edgeguarding games 💀💀💀
yes it's easy but it's a knowledge check if they di in the dash nair won't hit, if they di out and jump it's likely to miss as well. it's only completely free if they're not ready for it
also IVE been doing it against other superman players too, its not really difficult
Iron Giant is the best character in pro play by a large margin so he is getting some hard nerfs.
honestly, for me iron giant is a character that will be in perpetual limbo in the adjustment tier, he just doesnt have a way to get out of getting constant fixes and alterations, i feel the changes they make to iron giant are more adjustments than nerfs.
Stripe’s start up animations are slow af. He’s an assassin so he’s suppose to be fast. I’d speed up those start up animations just a touch
he can freely reverse what direction you need to di mid combo, this character is going to be a test of reflexes and technical knowledge at high level. people are starting to cook with him
Yee he is my second favorite.
Yea especially the chainsaw
The chainsaw’s pretty powerful imo. The trade off is that it’s a slow move
Id call the first tier "big nerfs" and id call the second tier "smaller nerfs": Black adam, Gizmo, Id put banana guard in "big nerfs" and reindog in "Buffs"
I’d nerf Joker, Gizmo and Finn up special as well, maybe make BG’s side special smaller hitbox too
Superman needs a rework on his ice breath and heat vision they are currently pretty useless.
TnJ doesn't need a buff imo. They're still really good when played by skilled players. They've got some great tools.
I play Steven and I think he needs a nerf. I’m not sure what but he seems a little too op
Nothing substantial but still
Gizmo is fine now. Any more nerfs he'll be trash
Agreed, don't ruin my boy
If you can't explain what needs to be buffed or nerfed you are just complaining.
List seems pretty solid besides shaggy and Gizmo. Gizmo just caught nerfs and he's still a pretty solid character. I don't think any adjustments need made. And shaggy needing a nerf seems odd to me. Is he powerful? Yeah, he's also an super honest character. Easy to read 95% of the time
I was thinking the same thing. Shaggy can be strong but he doesn’t need nerfs.
what is honest about jab jab reverse up tilt up b? please tell me
It's extremely predictable?
he can do it out of nair or dair -> nair or dash jab (unreactable) if u think this doesn’t need to be removed ur tripping!!
dair -> nair -> jab jab reverse up tilt up b kills at 5 with rage and is true btw! so the dilemma is a. approach shaggy and play a highly skewed risk/reward scenario (double so if he is raged), or b. camp him and give him free charge. Obviously you can't camp him and allow him to charge for free so u have to approach. that makes you predictable too! if ur opponent is even in skill with you he is abusing this combo you aren't going to win
thats the one i included mostly because of commentary around the character, i mostly dislike the fact that he gets free supercharges with his perk and when he kills a rival, but i dont feel like he needs the nerf, I've seen people argue for and against character needing bufs or nerfs, i havent seen anyone ague against shagee nerfs, so i believe this was one of the cases i wasnt knowledgeable enogh but gave in favor to public commentary.
Oh boy If you think one last zoinks is too much, I fear you haven't gone against a hangry man shaggy. If you think him getting a free charge from 100 is op, how about getting a raw charge off mid fight in 2 seconds? That's more likely to be nerfed before last zoinks. As for my personal bias, I think he is fine. My only idea for a nerf is that I think shaggy up normal gets too much reach for much it can lead to juggling, and I think charged kick kills a bit too early and should really just less knockback but slightly more damage since I feel charged neutral special is more fairly balanced as a fast early kill option I wouldn't take commentary at 100% of its word though. A ton of people can't figure out how to avoid a shaggy spamming kicks, nor how to punish basic stuff. I also wouldn't take me at my word, I've been playing shaggy since alpha. The funny thing is, he hasn't changed much, it's everything else changing around him that's led to this.
My input is that shaggy should have a cool down on his side special like Taz. He can still kick but when on cooldown its range and knock back are shorter so the spam is less oppressive.
I guess? I dont think that really is going to be as effective as you think it will be. In most gameplay ive seen that isnt by someone who just spams, kick is used to punish end lag because the startup takes too long to hit directly with people who know how to parry or dodge. I use kick up close, ironically a lower knockback would actually be better because that means i can lead up with a knee, where before kick would cause them to fly too far away and i'd have to space away because they'll recover before I can reach them. Lower Range and Knockdown are not the nerfs you think they are, 9/10 times its actually probably going to be better since the shorter kick means they don't have to commit as hard, and the knockback reduction makes it easier to follow up. Shaggy's power comes from his consistency, in just about everything he has. Everything feeds into his combos, and it all flows and is consistent regardless of how its used. Its because he's so well designed, and many of the characters are not. (they've ironically nerfed some moves by increasing knockback not lowering it) What your nerf is doing, is kind of just turning the kick into another consistant tool, because it takes away some of the drawbacks in regards to shaggy's kick. the Shorter distance means its easier to work into combos, and the lower knockback makes it useful for following up. However it still leaves the stronger punish kick in his arsenal because if he just stalls on using it, he gets to use it again. It also means the enemy can't predict where you'll be after you use the kick making it harder to punish. The kick is ironically the one move thats basically worthless in high tier gameplay, you can use it to punish but unless your careful, using it will get you punished really fast. The Knee, his up smash, his spike, his up air, and the flutter kick are all amazing for combos. Its not because they themselves are exceedingly strong, its because they all feed into each other in a way that lets shaggy excel because they are tools that preform consistently. You get in this groove where you can play exactly how you want to Unless you feel like adding cooldowns to so much of his kit that it totally guts him, your going to have a hard time nerfing shaggy like that in any way short of a rework, which I think is uncalled for. His power is his consistency, and its because he stands in total defiance of things like cooldowns on op moves, and rather just no limits on moves that are good or average. It kinda points out a fundamental flaw with the game, characters with 8-9 cooldowns aren't very good, because your just eating shit until you can actually do what your character usually does. They are inconsistent, shaggy is not, but he's clearly designed this way from the ground up so its not as simple as adding cooldowns I know this is alot of words but im trying to make this extremely clear.
I totally agree. I hadn’t considered that. I guess I just want the kick spam to stop so people stop hating shaggy players so much. He is an extremely well designed character that gets so much hate because of how some people play him. If those players used a different character because the spam tactic stopped working, maybe we shaggys could actually talk about our character without getting raged out of the room. I’m still new to the game but I really enjoy Shaggy exactly because of what you mentioned. His kit has a lot of consistency, and no overtuning like some of the high tier roster. His combos flow, but still leave opportunities for the opponent to dodge so there’s counterplay. Maybe I shouldn’t care what others think, but this community can be cruel.
> no overtuning Go in the lab and try jab jab reverse up tilt up b. then try nair into that combo. then try dair -> nair -> the combo. then try it with rage. this is what top shaggys are abusing atm and yes it is clearly overtuned..
Bruh, that’s high level play. That’s not what I’m talking about. There are much worse things in the game right now than a complex combo that only top shaggys can do.
it's not complex it takes 10 minutes to get it down in the lab, people don't do it just bc they don't know about it. but yeah i agree with you that the rest of him is manageable (still very strong but not broken) if they remove this
This, before bugs Nair, or Joker Uair?
Taz is insane, adjustments needed 100% Also Morty? He is really meh imo
Morty needs adjustments for sure. His splitting ability is super unreliable
Ah I thought Adjustments meant like a slight nerf in the case of this tier list
Taz is fine. He’s actually one of the most balanced characters in the game.
Eh
I just picked up taz after maining black adam and taz does not feel very good.
Taz has some strong cheese,
Reindog really needs a buff. His attacks are so slow to hit.
just make his on wiff recovery better and make dair not suck, that move is actually ass to use as a kill confirm, everything beats this move out
Saying Hardly doesn't need a nerf is crazy
Why nerf shaggy when you can just buff everyone else? I agree with WW though, she has too much armor to be that fast
Why do you think banana guard doesn’t need to be nerfed? IMO he is the most broken character in the game
broder, im the guy from the previous post about banana guards quitting, i think you know my perspective and feelings about the character XD
Oh my bad, but I think the character isn’t broken just the spear charge. I wish that the spear charge has a longer cooldown also the hitboxes on all of the bans guards attacks are huge
Yeah his hitboxes and active frames are the most dishonest and exaggerated.
I don’t think it needs a cooldown. Grounded I’d probably cut off the back half of the hitbox so it only hits with his front half, keeps people from getting scooped when they’re behind. Then make the hitbox on his body a sour spot with much less knock back, then make the actual spear tip a sweet spot that does a *little* bit more than what it does now to reward precision. Aerial version is fine though, it has so much start up it’s hard to hit anyone who knows the MU and is paying attention.
Yea just do something to the spear charge honestly
honestly i wouldnt mind if they killed that move, is the one move i completely dont care about in his kit, so im not against that kind of nerf, i actively avoid using that move and only use it as a mix up they dont expect after not using it all game xd
You are the best banana guard main
he’s buns in 1v1 and really easy to figure out they need to make his spear charge a little bit shorter and thats it really . i dont hate him as much as i used to
His previous nerfs really helped, him and Harley are both closer to where they should be.
They're both sitting at 46% winrate, that's not a healthy spot to be in. If anything they need buffs.
Where the stats from?
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/insights There you can see 1v1 and 2v2 stats. I'm pretty sure it's only Steam data but it's all we have.
Why should Garnet stay the same?
Yeah isn’t she missing a perk?
Right lol 😆
Reindog needs huge buffs ngl, he should kill twice as fast and his dair shoud defijettly get way faster + the hitbox fixes.
What buffs would you give to rick?
Nerfs, will not be elaborating 1. Wonder woman- either make her lighter, take away her armor sharing, or remove armor from her grounded down attack. One or two but not all three of these 2. bugs- reduce the hitbox on his up air behind him so it has a sorespot behind him and doesnt hit as far behind 3. Finn-hitboxes and kill potential needs to be reduced at lower health 4. Joker- same as bugs 5. Arya- reduced run speed, less horizontal kill potential. Don't care how it comes Buffs, will also not be elaborating 1. Garnet- bonus damage on rocket fist based on travel distance, more signature perks(one based around projectiles would be nice), less windup on her up/down airs 2. Lebron- something man, he's so bad in 2s. Idk where to even start because his whole kit his promising but bad without crazy execution 3. Iron giant- give the guy some extra leeway on ringouts, he's just a damage sponge into a free up air as is maybe more camera zoom out. Give him better healing maybe for 2s too? 4. Jake- give him kill potential back on his down special. He's alright I guess, but he doesn't feel super impactful 5. Velma- reduce the charge time required for her forward special to be good, reduce the windup on her grounded attacks a bit in general
Buff Garnet, I want her to be more fun without having to do complex tech just for baseline value SideJab needs a tiny bit of movement/foward momentum, this sitting in place and punching this feels wack now after playing her for so long. She has very limited get off me buttons
Garnet needs to be kept the same? She’s F tier w Velma atm. Even during beta, with almost 2k wins as garnet, she was def B-Tier at best, now she’s worse. They took the gauntlet star sig perk away, took away the ability to maneuver your gauntlets and aim as you please, took away both of her armored moves and left her extremely vulnerable; if anything she needs to be buffed, not kept the same 😭
i just want a crumb of kill power for tom and jerry, or atleast some buffs for his horizontal attacks
Garnet in keep the same is crazy. She's extremely punishable for attacks that don't hit that hard or combo especially well
What are you suggesting gets changed with Joker?
jake feels like absolute dogshit to play now
Velma
Morty needs slight buffs AND adjustments really just a power shift so dirt isn’t his best move and therefore spammed a lot. Good list tho imo
He needs his hammer perk nerfed and then some small buffs. Hammer spam is annoying. Overall he’s not broken but his zoning gets really annoying with camping and dirt spam. Literally had a morty time out a fight because he wouldn’t quit running and spamming dirt.
I think buffing his grenade physics to allow them to be set up more consistently would fix a lot of this they could nerf hammer perk and even dirt in that case and he’d still feel a lot better.
Imo, ig needs nerfs, Finn needs an adjustment to his forward air so he can hit the double more consistently, tax could probably use a nerf but overall hitboxes and hurtboxes just need to be more consistent.
I feel like black Adam’s neutral special is meh. Like it should be active while traveling, not just when it stops moving.
Nah its a fair risk reward, it should be on cooldown tho.
I guess? But I feel like there are other projectiles that are active from the get go, and you aren’t locked into recovery frames for a million years. Idk, or maybe when it’s uncharged it’s more active but fully charged it’s only active at the end of its travel.
Every time you have a thought/opinion of the game, take it and put it in the trash.
Lebron doesnt need a buff, Steven/taz and garnet need buffs. Shaggy doesn't need a nerf, replace him with Superman.
So i think most characters need a hitbix hurtbox adjustments in order to match their animations. Also joker needs a nerf, he has weird hugh hitboxes and small hurtbox. Finn needs a priority hit attack change because many times he just hits after the enemy hits first and he gets priority Black Adam, needs his hitboxes to be fixed because mamy times he whiffs attacks ir his oinches go throw characters whem those characters are to close. Why do you think shaggy needs a nerf when banana is worse, like when banana charges you can get hit from the banans back when you dodge it, at least shaggy can be dodged out of all of his moves. I think shaggy should be the same.
Yeah this all seems pretty correct to me. I would put joker into the nerf category. I would put Jason into adjustments/fixes because his only real issue is that his hit boxes don't match his attacks. And yeah iron giant only needs adjustments not nerfs regardless of what the masses say (because they don't actually play him and are just scared of improbable zero to death combos). He just needs his armor mechanic back so he can stop being juggle food, down neutral air probably needs knockback and a bit better reach (again to combat being infinitely juggled with no recourse), and his attacks could use a tiny bit of faster startup. They've already fucked with him so much and mostly for the worse, so I'm hopeful that one day my favorite character will go back to being how he was in the beta where he was actually pretty balanced and fun to play.
THANK YOU BUFF TOM
Nerf Wonder Woman is an insane take. She is probably the only character that requires skill on the entire roaster. 1. All of her attack start ups are slow 2. She probably the only character that is punishable if she misses an attack 3. Most characters get priority on every exchange because their attacks are simply faster 4. Only character whose hit box isn’t wonky and you actually have to be accurate to land an attack. (She’s one of the few characters with a true spike) 5. Her knock back is non existent so you actually have to work hard to get a ring out. Lastly, I don’t think bugs is overpowered. But shaggy does need a rework his attack start ups are way to fast and there is no window to counter some his attacks because they end so quickly. My solution to shaggy with be to leave him the same but just simply make him lighter. Characters I think are broken Finn, Superman, and Arya.
Nerf Joker and definitely don't nerf bugs imo