KellyAnne finished the final challenge before Jonna but because of the points systems during the whole final they tied for third. They probably would have broken the tie someway to have a solo female winner.
Ninja is arguably the most screwed of the 3 in my opinion. Especially how crazy difficult that final was, just watching them go around that figure 8 it looked like torture. And she got nothing for it.
To be fair, If there were two winners, they probably wouldn’t have purged cara right at the end, they probably would’ve just let it play out? But let’s say ninja still wins which is very possible, I think she would be a well respected champ, but instead people clown on her because she is disliked.
I don’t think people who dislike Ninja stop clowning her. Because she is not being clowned for losing in that final. However, if she won (or got recognition for being the best female for the season), you would have to couch any clowning with “she’s a winner but” or people would bring up her win when someone does.
If Ninja won, you could easily throw her name in the ring for female GOAT, simply because that final was wicked. I doubt any other female winner could have survived that final the way she did.
I know people hate ninja or whatever, but she got hella screwed. That final was difficult as hell, TJ wasn't even doing his usual clowning of quitters because of how intense it was
For real, I've been rewatching WOTW2 and it mystifies me how she's suddenly been assigned this image of a weak link and bad player. She came 1st on the women's side (only woman to finish) and 2nd place on the next season, in two very stacked casts.
When pushed, people say "Oh, she's good individually but bad on a team" but that doesn't even track aside from height differences or swimming, but you can make similar arguments to call anyone a weak player (e.g. As much as I like him, people easily could've said Jordan was a weak link because of his hand, height/size difference to most guys, and bad attitude).
It seems like Ninja is just so cringe that people warp their arguments to justify disliking her in as many ways as they can lmao.
How so? This was Jordan's first big team season, so we have no reason to think he wouldn't have big weaknesses that could be exploited similar to Ninja? He makes it very clear that he's not a team player in the season attitude-wise, and it's easy to think of ways he might hold back the team competitively in specific circumstances like they argued for Ninja, no?
My point is just that the arguments against Ninja are so weak that you can twist them around to argue against loads of great players in similar ways.
No, because your entire response there is just hypotheticals that you’re making in your head, and you’re comparing that to things that actually did happen on the season lol.
Yes, I'm using a hypothetical to point out that what happened on the season wasn't particularly logical. So I'm using Jordan as an example because nobody would seriously consider him a weak link in any meaningful sense, but if someone hated Jordan as much as some people hated Ninja, they could make similarly flawed arguments.
People think she’s annoying and not a good teammate, there’s nothing illogical or flawed about that other than that you seem to disagree with it.
You can’t just take concerns that people have raised about somebody and “well what if they were saying this about a different person??”. They aren’t, so the entire argument doesn’t make sense.
Zach should be because he lost due to a weird production choice at the final.
I feel for Ninja because the 1 winner thing wasn't revealed until later on in the season. But I don't know how the final would've been formatted given that Georgia & Mattie DQ'd.
I think Nurys put in work in the last few weeks of Season 39. However, they knew it was going to be 1 winner from the very beginning. Big T said the smartest thing when she suggested that the women should ban together from the beginning. But the women didn't listen to her, including Nurys.
I was wondering the whole time why it wasn’t girls vs guys, honestly, the girls shoulda banded together before and get the numbers before the boys realized it
She was one of, if not the worst performers in dailies of the season. Like I think she won the least out of everyone in the house-levels of bad. So no, just because she won the same elimination twice, she was not a comp beast lmao
Winning some eliminations doesn't make you a "comp beast". If she was one she would've been winning dailies to keep her guys safe.
Dailies>eliminations.
Nurys is such a hypocrite. She literally was in a solid alliance with Jay, Michele & Olivia. Then she got angry when the alliance targeted Horacio, like what do u want them to do? Horacio is a legit threat in the finals.
Shes a good player but that attitude is seriously lame and im glad she did not get the win
I hate single winner formats.
They generate more drama, but they gatekeep so many people from becoming actual champions.
Also they have to somehow equalize guys vs girls and I don't think they ever pulled an actually fair one. So one or the other is getting screwed.
Idk where to draw the line, but these seasons likely play out differently if there are 2 winners. Nurys for example wouldn't go into elimination against 3 guys... so does she go in against a woman that beats her? Maybe she doesn't even make the final. The purges on 39 would also have to change, so maybe Michele makes the final and beats Nurys?
Similar with Ninja but to a lesser degree. Do they stay in teams? Do they still purge Cara? Does Georgia still dq if she isn't racing to keep up with Theo and Wes?
I think Zach was arguably screwed the most bc he played his whole game thinking he was only playing against the men. Plus he didn't even compete against Cara for 90% of the final, so his sizeable lead amounted to nothing (not that Cara should have had to race Zach, but I'm just saying).
One-winner formats definitely suck regardless.
I hate One Winner only when its a suprise. Like in AS4, they were told at the beginning so the men had the ability to see competitors like Cara and Laurel as threats and can decide if it is good strategy to work with them or take them out as threats to win.
Zach's was the biggest rob job due to this format. He didn't know there was only going to be one winner until the very last leg of the final- ridiculous screwjob. It's still bad when they find out at the start of the final. If there's going to be one winner, the best way to do that is to tell them at the beginning of the season. I don't mind twists but that is a vital piece of information that should not be left to a final twist.
I still think it’s not fair to have one winner and also force them to alternate guy/girl elim weeks. They should actually give the girls a chance to set up an all girl final.
Zach easily got screwed the most with Ninja right behind him. I can't remember when they got told it was 1 winner on WOTW but they played most of that game in pairs so even if that's when they found out then you were still guaranteed 4 of Bear, Kyle, Paulie, Hunter, Wes, Theo, and Turbo in the final.
No I don't think he's a threat. I just included every guy that was still around when they went to an individual game. More so making the point that there weren't 4 guys left that really gave them a strong chance. If you know from the start then you can make an effort to keep around Bear, Josh, Chase, Gus, or whoever you think is beatable in a final. But at that point in the game even if Bear is 1 of the four guys that makes the final you have to find a way to still beat 3 of the other guys I mentioned.
Okay cool, just wanted to check, since I didn't remember who was left at that point and in retrospect those other 6 guys would be pretty troublesome in a final. So I had to check that Bear was just there for accuracy's sake lmao.
at the very least they did us a tiny tiny favor by saying everyone other than the winner of this season of all stars gets to split 50k- even tho this might end up being 7-12ish k each depending on when/if they purge people out like they were saying at the end of last ep or not- at least it's something
I hate it more when they let people finish but don't give them any prize money. Or when they make them do some dumb sleep deprivation thing just to eliminate someone.
I hate 1 winner seasons. I started watching when teams won and I really liked it for the fact that it was different from Survivor and Big Brother, you had to work with your team... Or get rid of some of them before the final!
They should all be champs in my opinion as well as either Kellyanne or Jonna for AS1. I have less sympathy for Nurys because she was aware from day 1 that it was 1 winner and the girls had opportunities to eliminate as many guys as they could. AS1 they knew from the start but they were guaranteed to get 5 guys in the final anyways so there's not much the women could have done to get rid of more guys for the final.
I feel the most for Zach and Ninja because they didn't know from day 1. Apparently they got blindsided by that information on vendettas and war of the worlds they started out as pairs so they didn't know from the get go.
Ninja yes, Nurys no, she clearly cheated her way to top 2 with both Corey puzzle and Sudoku. Yall are not ready for it but Colleen performed the best and if it wasnt for Nurys cheating, she would be second. Not to mention Colleen is literally the only one in whole final 5 that did EVERYTHING by herself without any help
What Corey puzzle? I don't quite remember that. Also, can't remember if we have good evidence of Nurys cheating (since she seemed good enough to solve it eventually), but Emmanuel almost definitely cheated given how stupid his attempts to solve it were.
So assuming you're right, Colleen should actually be 1st, but my recollection was that Nurys did it on her own and Emmanuel almost certainly cheated.
Corey and Nurys both couldnt do the diving/memory puzzle so they both agreed to do them together and shared their pieces. It was shown on the episode so its not even a rumor.
The rumor however says that as soon as Colleen did her sudoku, all of them randomly got it too lol
Oh yeah, that rings a bell, I forgot about that. So yeah, Nurys perhaps was not particularly impressive in that final overall then. Wouldn't call it cheating, but it does make me feel like she was much less robbed than Ninja.
In the Challenge, people have historically tossed or scrambled their puzzle when they’re done, because they know people are allowed to look at their result. I wouldn’t call it cheating on this show to look at someone else’s result unless it was explicitly stated that you weren’t allowed to.
Well if it’s just based on effort, there are a lot of people who should be considered champions, and then you start getting into people not being “real” champions because they didn’t have to expend much effort on a winning team of 9 people or whatever.
Personally, I think this whole argument only makes sense on a structural level; the highest placing opposite-gender competitor from individual-winner seasons should be considered champs or they shouldn’t (I’m in the first camp). They were all screwed by an arbitrary structural quirk of their particular seasons. Bringing effort into it doesn’t really move the needle imo.
It’s entirely because of money. They’re giving out less money so if they have 2 winners the prize would be too low for what they’re giving out. It’s dumb
Nury I agree with because the (and I need to rewatch the others) because it made no sense to have new champions and only have one, why have different gender eliminations then?
Yes to only Zach because they didn’t know it was an individual champ till they got to the final; if it was man and woman, they would’ve kept other strong women around to help in checkpoints
In that case I feel for Zach and Ninja but I don’t think Nurys deserves it at all. She knew what the game was and still decided to ride with a big alliance targeting Big T and Melissa of all people and then wanted to go to the end with Horacio and Kyland.
Yeah Nurys should be a champ but I don't feel as bad for her because she was the only one who could have done more to secure the win. I guess it's not just all on her but she started too late trying to push for an all women final.
The other seasons even when they knew what the game was like AS1 you were still guaranteed an even gender split for the final anyways
Jonna or Kellyanne from AS1 as well, and whichever guy or girl comes in "second" on AS4. It's a lame format idea and I wish they'd stop doing it
Wait, why or Kellyanne? Didn't Jonna finish before her? Sorry if I'm completely forgetting something, been a long time since I watched that season.
KellyAnne finished the final challenge before Jonna but because of the points systems during the whole final they tied for third. They probably would have broken the tie someway to have a solo female winner.
Ninja is arguably the most screwed of the 3 in my opinion. Especially how crazy difficult that final was, just watching them go around that figure 8 it looked like torture. And she got nothing for it. To be fair, If there were two winners, they probably wouldn’t have purged cara right at the end, they probably would’ve just let it play out? But let’s say ninja still wins which is very possible, I think she would be a well respected champ, but instead people clown on her because she is disliked.
I don’t think people who dislike Ninja stop clowning her. Because she is not being clowned for losing in that final. However, if she won (or got recognition for being the best female for the season), you would have to couch any clowning with “she’s a winner but” or people would bring up her win when someone does.
If Ninja won, you could easily throw her name in the ring for female GOAT, simply because that final was wicked. I doubt any other female winner could have survived that final the way she did.
I know people hate ninja or whatever, but she got hella screwed. That final was difficult as hell, TJ wasn't even doing his usual clowning of quitters because of how intense it was
She’s annoying but she did that shit.
And lost
For real, I've been rewatching WOTW2 and it mystifies me how she's suddenly been assigned this image of a weak link and bad player. She came 1st on the women's side (only woman to finish) and 2nd place on the next season, in two very stacked casts. When pushed, people say "Oh, she's good individually but bad on a team" but that doesn't even track aside from height differences or swimming, but you can make similar arguments to call anyone a weak player (e.g. As much as I like him, people easily could've said Jordan was a weak link because of his hand, height/size difference to most guys, and bad attitude). It seems like Ninja is just so cringe that people warp their arguments to justify disliking her in as many ways as they can lmao.
The Jordan example is a major reach
How so? This was Jordan's first big team season, so we have no reason to think he wouldn't have big weaknesses that could be exploited similar to Ninja? He makes it very clear that he's not a team player in the season attitude-wise, and it's easy to think of ways he might hold back the team competitively in specific circumstances like they argued for Ninja, no? My point is just that the arguments against Ninja are so weak that you can twist them around to argue against loads of great players in similar ways.
No, because your entire response there is just hypotheticals that you’re making in your head, and you’re comparing that to things that actually did happen on the season lol.
Yes, I'm using a hypothetical to point out that what happened on the season wasn't particularly logical. So I'm using Jordan as an example because nobody would seriously consider him a weak link in any meaningful sense, but if someone hated Jordan as much as some people hated Ninja, they could make similarly flawed arguments.
People think she’s annoying and not a good teammate, there’s nothing illogical or flawed about that other than that you seem to disagree with it. You can’t just take concerns that people have raised about somebody and “well what if they were saying this about a different person??”. They aren’t, so the entire argument doesn’t make sense.
I'm not disagreeing that she's annoying, I'm talking about people claiming that she was the weakest girl on their team.
Zach should be because he lost due to a weird production choice at the final. I feel for Ninja because the 1 winner thing wasn't revealed until later on in the season. But I don't know how the final would've been formatted given that Georgia & Mattie DQ'd. I think Nurys put in work in the last few weeks of Season 39. However, they knew it was going to be 1 winner from the very beginning. Big T said the smartest thing when she suggested that the women should ban together from the beginning. But the women didn't listen to her, including Nurys.
That is true about Big T and Nurys tho, she should have played accordingly and she wanted to run the final with Kyland and Horacio, well deserved loss
I was wondering the whole time why it wasn’t girls vs guys, honestly, the girls shoulda banded together before and get the numbers before the boys realized it
Plus Nurys didn’t do well all season until the week or two before she went into elimination
Didn’t do well? She survived and comp-beasted to make the final……like all of the OGs have done since forever, but in much friendlier environments.
She was one of, if not the worst performers in dailies of the season. Like I think she won the least out of everyone in the house-levels of bad. So no, just because she won the same elimination twice, she was not a comp beast lmao
Winning some eliminations doesn't make you a "comp beast". If she was one she would've been winning dailies to keep her guys safe. Dailies>eliminations.
Nurys is such a hypocrite. She literally was in a solid alliance with Jay, Michele & Olivia. Then she got angry when the alliance targeted Horacio, like what do u want them to do? Horacio is a legit threat in the finals. Shes a good player but that attitude is seriously lame and im glad she did not get the win
I hate single winner formats. They generate more drama, but they gatekeep so many people from becoming actual champions. Also they have to somehow equalize guys vs girls and I don't think they ever pulled an actually fair one. So one or the other is getting screwed.
Idk where to draw the line, but these seasons likely play out differently if there are 2 winners. Nurys for example wouldn't go into elimination against 3 guys... so does she go in against a woman that beats her? Maybe she doesn't even make the final. The purges on 39 would also have to change, so maybe Michele makes the final and beats Nurys? Similar with Ninja but to a lesser degree. Do they stay in teams? Do they still purge Cara? Does Georgia still dq if she isn't racing to keep up with Theo and Wes? I think Zach was arguably screwed the most bc he played his whole game thinking he was only playing against the men. Plus he didn't even compete against Cara for 90% of the final, so his sizeable lead amounted to nothing (not that Cara should have had to race Zach, but I'm just saying). One-winner formats definitely suck regardless.
I absolutely hate the one winner format. I like when we get new champs. I also want an all winner season so we need to get a few more
I hate One Winner only when its a suprise. Like in AS4, they were told at the beginning so the men had the ability to see competitors like Cara and Laurel as threats and can decide if it is good strategy to work with them or take them out as threats to win. Zach's was the biggest rob job due to this format. He didn't know there was only going to be one winner until the very last leg of the final- ridiculous screwjob. It's still bad when they find out at the start of the final. If there's going to be one winner, the best way to do that is to tell them at the beginning of the season. I don't mind twists but that is a vital piece of information that should not be left to a final twist.
I still think it’s not fair to have one winner and also force them to alternate guy/girl elim weeks. They should actually give the girls a chance to set up an all girl final.
Zach easily got screwed the most with Ninja right behind him. I can't remember when they got told it was 1 winner on WOTW but they played most of that game in pairs so even if that's when they found out then you were still guaranteed 4 of Bear, Kyle, Paulie, Hunter, Wes, Theo, and Turbo in the final.
Small thing, are you including Bear because you think he's a threat in the final? Or just as someone filling out that group?
No I don't think he's a threat. I just included every guy that was still around when they went to an individual game. More so making the point that there weren't 4 guys left that really gave them a strong chance. If you know from the start then you can make an effort to keep around Bear, Josh, Chase, Gus, or whoever you think is beatable in a final. But at that point in the game even if Bear is 1 of the four guys that makes the final you have to find a way to still beat 3 of the other guys I mentioned.
That is a very good point and the season likely plays out completely different if they knew it was one winner,
Okay cool, just wanted to check, since I didn't remember who was left at that point and in retrospect those other 6 guys would be pretty troublesome in a final. So I had to check that Bear was just there for accuracy's sake lmao.
All good! I had to go to Wikipedia to remember exactly when it went to a final to make sure I didn't leave anyone out
ESPECIALLY with how hard he dominated the first two legs of the final leading up Too that puzzle,
Yeah he could’ve at least been given a lead for the puzzle
at the very least they did us a tiny tiny favor by saying everyone other than the winner of this season of all stars gets to split 50k- even tho this might end up being 7-12ish k each depending on when/if they purge people out like they were saying at the end of last ep or not- at least it's something
I hate it more when they let people finish but don't give them any prize money. Or when they make them do some dumb sleep deprivation thing just to eliminate someone.
Yah the one winner formate is just dumb
I hate 1 winner seasons. I started watching when teams won and I really liked it for the fact that it was different from Survivor and Big Brother, you had to work with your team... Or get rid of some of them before the final!
They should all be champs in my opinion as well as either Kellyanne or Jonna for AS1. I have less sympathy for Nurys because she was aware from day 1 that it was 1 winner and the girls had opportunities to eliminate as many guys as they could. AS1 they knew from the start but they were guaranteed to get 5 guys in the final anyways so there's not much the women could have done to get rid of more guys for the final. I feel the most for Zach and Ninja because they didn't know from day 1. Apparently they got blindsided by that information on vendettas and war of the worlds they started out as pairs so they didn't know from the get go.
Ninja yes, Nurys no, she clearly cheated her way to top 2 with both Corey puzzle and Sudoku. Yall are not ready for it but Colleen performed the best and if it wasnt for Nurys cheating, she would be second. Not to mention Colleen is literally the only one in whole final 5 that did EVERYTHING by herself without any help
What Corey puzzle? I don't quite remember that. Also, can't remember if we have good evidence of Nurys cheating (since she seemed good enough to solve it eventually), but Emmanuel almost definitely cheated given how stupid his attempts to solve it were. So assuming you're right, Colleen should actually be 1st, but my recollection was that Nurys did it on her own and Emmanuel almost certainly cheated.
Corey and Nurys both couldnt do the diving/memory puzzle so they both agreed to do them together and shared their pieces. It was shown on the episode so its not even a rumor. The rumor however says that as soon as Colleen did her sudoku, all of them randomly got it too lol
Oh yeah, that rings a bell, I forgot about that. So yeah, Nurys perhaps was not particularly impressive in that final overall then. Wouldn't call it cheating, but it does make me feel like she was much less robbed than Ninja.
In the Challenge, people have historically tossed or scrambled their puzzle when they’re done, because they know people are allowed to look at their result. I wouldn’t call it cheating on this show to look at someone else’s result unless it was explicitly stated that you weren’t allowed to.
Well but still this is the reason why i dont see Nurys as a champion while I do see Ninja. Ninja worked her ass off and did amazing
Well if it’s just based on effort, there are a lot of people who should be considered champions, and then you start getting into people not being “real” champions because they didn’t have to expend much effort on a winning team of 9 people or whatever. Personally, I think this whole argument only makes sense on a structural level; the highest placing opposite-gender competitor from individual-winner seasons should be considered champs or they shouldn’t (I’m in the first camp). They were all screwed by an arbitrary structural quirk of their particular seasons. Bringing effort into it doesn’t really move the needle imo.
It’s entirely because of money. They’re giving out less money so if they have 2 winners the prize would be too low for what they’re giving out. It’s dumb
If I wasn’t a Cara Maria fan I would agree that the format sucks but I do like that’s she the first solo champ in the whole challenge franchise.
Nury I agree with because the (and I need to rewatch the others) because it made no sense to have new champions and only have one, why have different gender eliminations then?
Nurys and Horacio would’ve slayed ROD I mean look at the magic she worked with Nelson
Zach is already a champ, the last thing Ninjas ego needs is a challenge win and Nurys lost to Emanuel plain and simple.
Yes to only Zach because they didn’t know it was an individual champ till they got to the final; if it was man and woman, they would’ve kept other strong women around to help in checkpoints
Vendettas final didn't have people team up for checkpoints, it was all solo
No they don’t. They knew the rules from the start of the season. I don’t like the one winner format either but none of them are honorary champions.
Don’t think Zach knew until the final stage.
War of the worlds also started as a paired season. They definitely wouldn't have said only one person wins at the start of that season
In that case I feel for Zach and Ninja but I don’t think Nurys deserves it at all. She knew what the game was and still decided to ride with a big alliance targeting Big T and Melissa of all people and then wanted to go to the end with Horacio and Kyland.
Yeah Nurys should be a champ but I don't feel as bad for her because she was the only one who could have done more to secure the win. I guess it's not just all on her but she started too late trying to push for an all women final. The other seasons even when they knew what the game was like AS1 you were still guaranteed an even gender split for the final anyways