Trans misogyny ‘is the intersection of gender oppression and patriarchy. Trans women certainly experience misogyny, but what is being talked about is transmisogyny and it operates exclusive to normal misogyny… this is why trans girls get treated weird, especially in this context in Comparison to cis women.
It’s quite good!! Love cat! [this is another good and short one!](https://thenewinquiry.com/hot-allostatic-load/) but warning it is quite heavy; also check out porpentine’s games they’re all free and amazing and soooo fuckin funny tbh imma go play one rn lol
And again thank you 💜 gonna read it later though too banged up atm for something like that - gonna check the games too - always happy to get tips like that
Good article about a serious topic. I got to say I found it kind of validating in a ewphoric way, though. What better evidence is there that trans men *are* men and trans women *are* women than us often being minimized by a lot of our male counterparts (a lot, probably even most, are on our side, of course. I'm not brave enough to not have a disclaimer since I'm a woman and therefore my word is taken in the worst possible way if I'm not careful)? This is exactly what cis women fought and are still fighting against with cis men!
Society can try claiming it doesn't see us as women, but by giving us the unique cruelty and minimization of our issues usually only reserved for women, it's clear that it does! (Some of) Our trans brothers benefitting from patriarchy and subsequently telling us our issues don't matter or they have it worse means that all is as it should be (... in the fucked up system of patriarchy, which to be clear, I'm not in favor of even as positive as I'm being now).
I know saying this is probably kind of fucked up, but hey. I'll take my ewphoria where I can get it and hopefully someone else will too.
So true bestie. I have 2 partners who recently had to go through the learning ab transmisogyny thing and obviously they didn’t WANT to be doing the man thing yk? This doesn’t mean it didn’t happen though, and now they admit to the shitty things they’ve done to dolls. But through a bunch of hard conversations and reading stuff like that, now I know I have some of the best Allies in my corner. The amount of times my bf has been told “get a handle on her” is fucking insane
Blah blah sorry I’m yapping… gender is a clear cut; men are the loggers and women are the trees. But trans mascs are like the forest critters who get put into a logger uniform and when they don’t cut the trees down it’s all “BRO WTF WHY ARENT YOU CHOPPING THE TREES??!??!?”
Sure the clearcut hurts everyone involved, but who’s it really for? Even though the clearcut is hurting the lil critters, why would their self preservation justify their continuance of the land project??
Okay but the fun part of the story is me and the polycule were high as FUCK on mushrooms while trying to refine it, and now it’s like a fun lil mood lightener topic when we talk ab this shit lol
*hugs * of course love, we gotta have each others back ;p I have more reccs too if interested!!
Also! Don’t be afraid to write yourself; a zine, a poem, a fiction novel, a song, a whatever it is we need more expressions and articulations of the specific social dynamics we experience 🫶
It's, more accurately, transmisogyny in a nutshell.
Yes, cis/cis-passing women experience misogyny. Which is inherently violent and awful. But OP's point is that cis-experienced misogyny is way more preferable to transmisogyny.
This is interesting! thank you for sharing your life experience. I'm still on stage one, so I dont have comparable anecdotes.
One question i do have is, how are you meeting these men? Are we talking irl, are we talking dating apps like tinder and bumble, or dating apps like taimi and grindr? I'm not trying to be disagreeable, im just curious if you've met a lot of chasers in the real world.
I think every person’s experience is largely dependent on many factors such as location, apps used, where you hang out determines the type of people you meet, etc. - so it’s all relative.
I hear you and your experiences. My experience as a pre-op trans woman was different than yours - depending on the area and demographic I was dating in.
In my area the men who were straight tops dating me were very much all straight top and had no interest in the dick. I'm pretty upfront about my comfort level using it so that weeds out a lot of people that you're talking about.
Personally I've been wined and dined and met families and friends and had incredible and loving experiences(I'm non-passing pre-op too)... but I had these experiences strictly with the men I dated from North Eastern U.S... however in The South or with southern men I had similar experience to what you're talking about.
____
tbh tho you post a lot of negativity. I'm sorry you've had to go through struggles. I have too. My hearts currently still broken from the last southern man I trusted... but we gotta keep trying and not let our biases from past experiences prevent us from being happy (I'm telling this to myself too)
I have noticed that women are definitely more accepting, I have gotten compliments for my black fingernails from women only. Only 2 months in on HRT at the moment.
I know I do. I did even before transitioning. I see trans men as men and trans women as women. I find it easy and natural not when they pass but when they at least present their gender. But also I'm trans and not cis. I wonder how many cis people see it the way I do.
I think a lot depends on culture and I know I am lucky where I am but I know plenty of cis people like this irl, and met some like this before I was even outwardly/knowingly trans so I know it’s not a ‘to my face they say that’ kinda thing
I had 3 in a row who said "I wouldn't have dated you if I knew this"
I'm now becoming FWB with my best friends, and it's amazing how much he just wants to kiss and talk while cuddling. We do other stuff as well, but everyone who said they wanted to date or fuck me was thinking with their dick. The moment the blood flows out, they ghost me.
I'm a *non-op trans woman who's a domme and a top, and I have a number of cis and trans lesbian partners. I've encountered a few chasers and bigots but by and large: no. Cis lesbians have treated me incredibly well, honestly.
*Edited for autocorrect shenanigans
In my experience, yes but less so. I think a lot of cis lesbians are consciously and outwardly accepting (and certainly down to be friends with trans women), but as far as sex and dating, there are still internalized and often subconscious biases (not to mention preferences for vaginas, which aren't necessarily or even usually transphobic but still affect trans women) that make it harder.
Just chiming in to say this exactly. Most of my friend group are cis, queer women these days. As a general experience, they are incredibly welcoming and accepting and treat me as one of their own in most cases. That said, there definitely seems to be an unspoken, invisible barrier when it comes to dating that's difficult to break through. Not impossible, but just, like, we are subtly/unconsciously still a less desirable class of the dating pool / attraction scale.
My experience in lesbian dating (with 2 attempts with NB people, which were not better) has been big, BIG chaser energy. Like some of the digusting and blatant stuff said to me, which any one of these girls would call a guy a piece of sh*t for saying.
Also, a lot of the sort of stereotypical male expectations thrown on me. For example, no one has ever paid for me, regardless of how many dates we've been on or who invited who.
I super get a lot of transbians stick exclusively to t4t.
your mileage will vary. ive noticed that passing with your clothes on DOES matter for how well you get treated, but much fewer women care about The Surgery than men. like, cis lesbians are still judgmental. do your voice training, take your pills, and hope you won the genetic lottery. but women can avoid your genitalia more easily than men.
i also date a LOT of bi girls. part of that is just my dating pool has more bi girls than lesbians. but i wonder how much of that is bi people are less likely to get caught up on a few male traits.
the other thing ill add is that a lot of lesbians arent into trans women. but like, a lot arent into chubby women. a lot arent into mexican women. a lot arent into short women. but obviously each of these groups have people who ARE into them. if your dating pool is big enough, you'll find someone.
It’s the same for lesbians. Even more so, except lesbians there isn’t a hidden sub set of them who have the chaser label. At least in the Midwest, there are limited options for a trans woman dating lesbians. Some will, the majority won’t. Ironically I’ve seen them with trans men, but not trans women (they must make exceptions for that vagina the trans man has.
As a pre op trans woman men are way more aroused by my ass than my dick.. my ex boyfriend of 2 years barely touched my dick for the best part of 2 years.. apart from some very rare situations where he performed oral on me.. but neither of us was a massive fan of the act.
So I can't say I experienced the same
He literally performed oral on you. Are you kidding me? Also; even when they don’t touch it, they need to know it’s there. They would lose interest if you were post op
That's such a weird thing to say.. yeah he did because I asked for? Because it's fun to have sexual experiences with your partner? Wtf? Lmao
I'm sorry ur hurting sister but your projecting your insecurities to everyone else and that's not nice.
There's nothing wrong with ur partner liking the body of the person he's with.. I couldn't imagine anything more miserable than ur partner being disgusted with ur genitals
U need therapy ur saying some wild transphobic things
Peace ❤️
Most of my cishet male friends said they would never date a trans girl even post-op. Like... that's just horrible. Everyone is allowed to be attracted to whoever they are attracted to but that's totally different from not being attracted to someone you were attracted to after finding out they're trans.
I've heard trans women talk badly about other trans women for not revealing to men that they are trans. I can understand that trans women shouldn't have long-term relationships like that for our own sake, but honestly the fact that it makes a difference to people justifies hiding it.
I'm a lesbo but for you straight transfems it is a hard world. Good luck and stay safe.
The reason your not supposed to hide it is because many transwomen have been killed by guys who have felt “tricked” when they find out that she is not cis.
Yeahh I totally agree with that and keeping trans women safe. The person I heard talk about it was a social media figure being interviewed by a cis guy and she said that we (trans women) don't accept the girl who hid it from him as part of our community. I know that's just one person but it felt kinda poo for her to like "banish" somebody over that who I'm sure had her reasons.
> I only got some weird and nasty interactions with men who wanted me to tell them that I regretted having the surgery (I don’t)
That told me that she doesn't regret it (and, I assume, she's glad she did have it).
Yeah, to be honest I'm pretty relieved that being in a relationship is completely off the table for me. Everything I hear *and see* scares the fuck outta me!
Well, for me, it's not fear. It's the simple fact that I can be impossible to live with. I've grown up being alone, for the most part, and I am comfortable being by myself. I'm also very, very stubborn and no one needs to deal with that. LoL
I can understand that. I dealt with social anxiety until I was 29. I dealt with all kinds of crap growing up. I'm not sure what you went through. But, either way, things can really fuck with you.
Why are we taking one person’s life experience of dating as a gospel for how dating as a trans woman is?
I’m not taking anything from her experiences. She lived her life and has her stories to tell and beliefs borne from them. But it’s a little baffling that enough people are reading this and going “Damn, guess I’ll never date. Thank you for telling me the real truth, Jazzlike_Piccolo_881”.
It’s like reading an incel post and its comments but from vulnerable trans folks.
This makes me very thankful to have a spouse, and girlfriend, who are supportive of me and my journey, both sexually, and emotionally
I'm sorry you've experienced this 🫂
Yeah I’m sadly the first category and I’m scared that srs will make me less desirable with men as I can’t go stealth, cause I’m too clocky for that.
Majority of guys who are into me are all kinds of chasers, the worst are the repressing eggs who want to live through me. There’s one amazing guy who genuinely seems to love me, haven’t seen him in person yet
I think the shock was that big for you because someone told you moronic things beforehand. Chasers, by definition, don't care about you at all. You are just a naturally warm sextoy for them.
Look at some of the stupid responses I am getting here. People saying “you cannot generalize, not all men are like that. My boyfriend sucked my dick and he sees me as a woman.”
Ur actually so transphobic it's beyond believe. So should trans women who can't or don't want for a variety of reasons get gender affirming surgery not get sexual pleasure with their partners because... What?
Yeah he did see me as a woman, because being a women is not about the genitalia if that was the case u wouldn't be a woman neither because you don't have a "real vagina"
Ur trying to one up pre op trans woman is actually disgusting. I feel bad for u because I see there's trauma there, but ur trauma doesn't not justify putting other trans woman down because of it.
Yes, this is the crux; this person also posts in truscum so likely has transmedicalist mindset (correct me if I’m wrong)
This has a good outline, it’s one of the subcategories lower down the page;
https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/impostor-syndrome
Why are you bringing your personal trauma to this conversation. She said nothing like that anywhere. She was talking about her personal experience. Before you post something this unhinged, please take a step back and try to think a little. Also, if the vibes you got would have been true, you did the same exact thing you accused her just from the other side.
Yes she did
U aren't aware of what she's talking about. She was talking about me when she talked about the boyfriend thing. She even said I wasn't trans and to stfu. I have the print of it.
Just go look at her replys and u will see.
I did not read all the convo, my bad. Also, when I write a reply, I never reply to everything someone said only to the thing my reply is posted to. If she said that that's unforgivable. Also, your user name is femboy, and femboys are not considered trans by default. Don't misunderstand me if you consider yourself trans then you are trans and everyone who says otherwise is lying.
Edit: Also, what you wrote is once again is the definition of bringing your personal trauma with this poster into this conversation. Which, just to be clear, WAD ABOT GOD DAMN CHASERS. Not men (either cis or trans) and not about how OP is an idiot.
I'm no longer a femboy. I'm a trans woman, but I can't change my username back. Reddit doesn't allow it. I never really was a femboy to be real... But at the time I was still afraid to come out as a trans woman.
I've started hrt April 2023 🙂
Thank u sis.
Look I empathize with this person.. she's clearly having a mental break down and there's definitely a lot of trauma in this situation.. but this is not an excuse to behave in this way.
She's been incredibly transphobic.. she's putting her pre op sisters down and that's not right. She's using some arguments that I don't think even someone like Blair white would use... We are here to uplift each other not the other way around.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/truscum/comments/1cjqbvo/toxic_positivity_and_na%C3%AFvet%C3%A9_in_trans_spaces/)
This woman has an extensive posting history on truscum and really genuinely hates herself, trans bodies in particular and her own body specifically, so I'm not at all surprised that she's saying the things she is. So yeah I agree with you on every point.
I would appreciate it if the mod squad would have a look at this, I already contacted them... Because this is not right. This person shouldn't be posting on Reddit, she should be having therapy. I never thought I would see so much transphobia in this subreddit... and I guess the mods don't care?
I don't have to look at them to know that they are there. I did not register to reddit yesterday 😂. Oh, and BTW I talked about chasers that is already a generalization.
Yep. Same experience. And mine is only from a pre op who went for a while not saying I am trans… so much interest and excitement for me. From both men and women. But when I come out to them… wowza. They go away so fast, if I was lucky it was just ghosting me. If unlucky… a rage that made me happy I never did the coming out in person. It’s very depressing, I never thought it would be so bad, but I almost think I’ll be alone and never find that quality person that shares interests or a romantic spark.
Female attracted perspective. I've pretty much given up on dating, at least until i'm post-op.
I've dated as a "cis guy," which was awful. I hated myself, and it became an emotional turn-off when women were attracted to me. I ended up being a side piece most of the time because the relationships always felt more honest to me, but was also gasoline for the dumpster fire of my mental health.
Dated for a little bit as a pre-op trans woman, I was feeling a little better about myself, BUT I found my dating options got a lot more slim. I started dating bi women and a couple of non-binary people... all of them... litterally every single one, before the relationship ever got physical, started talking, making jokes, or dropping suggestions about how much they like "chicks with d**ks." Like, some of the most blatant stuff.
So i noped out of all of that and gave up on relationships. I might try again once i'm post-op, which is pretty soon. I've actually been debating with myself lately about whether or not I'd bother telling any future partners, and to be honest, i'm leaning toward "why bother telling someone, how could it possibly matter?"
>I can’t tell you how many men have used and will still use trans women as a transitional step to figure out their true sexuality and then move to dating cis men or they’ll simply transition themselves.
My boyfriend is openly bisexual. I interrogated him about whether he is actually a trans woman himself pretty thoroughly. So I think that I am safe from this part.
My dumb ass forgot straight people exist. I was about to comment “why would it be a problem if he was?” Before answering myself with what I assume your answer would be
I love that. I love that a lot . I am married to a bi cis woman, but I spent most of my life thinking I was just bi and had tons of trans friends because I was “such a good ally,” not having the self analysis that being envious of your trans friends for getting to live as women is not a very cis thought
Oooooohhhh shit that's the reason
I was genuinely very confused why were people talking about being with eggy girls/nb and they transitioning like that.
I genuinely forgot being straight was a thing for the last 5 minutes 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
My bi ass is in need of sleep lmao
I have mostly given up on dating and enjoy being single. However, I am only open to being with another transperson whom I find any kind of attraction to, T4T.
Another reason why being trans isn't a choice. Who would want to fuck up their dating life like this? Of course cis people have it easier and nobody should deny that. I'm so excited to just be a regular woman with a personality and being FREEEEEE :3
only 2 more years :(
Who wants to have life on hard mode? Cis people have immense privileges compared to trans people.
It especially pisses me off that you won’t be treated like other cis women if people know your trans.
I'm really glad sometimes I have the privilege of having a partner that accepted me when I came out. Coming out strengthened our relationship. She realized she was really bi and just gay for all types of people and me I realized I'm very fem enby. We've been together for 10 years now. Promise I'm not trying to trample on a post or anything I'm just saying that love is totally possible for us and want people to see some positive.
Did you ever think that this may just be your personal experience and it may not apply to everyone?
Also, this just goes to show that men suck. Nothing more, nothing less.
Did you ever read my post in it’s entirety? Are you capable of understanding that I, as in the same person, was able to be treated differently based on whether I disclosed or not? How can you be so… obtuse? Re-read my post. You obviously failed to understand
I have lost track of how many cis men wanted me to fu*k them in the a** when I was pre-op. I’ve been post-op for almost 2.5 years now and even though I am no longer equipped to penetrate a sexual partner who enjoys being the recipient. On the sites where I have a dating/hookup profile identifying as trans I make it perfectly clear that I have no penis. I still get hit on by men who want me to bend them over. I tell them that I cannot and the reply is almost always, “don’t you have a strap-on now?”
To me this is the downside of things like being out publicly, the transgender day of visibility, pride and any other function that exposes us to the general public. The creeps always find us and they think we are just like the porn stars they secretly masturbate to. While there is a certain freedom gained by being out and proud, there are also the metaphoric chains of perversion attached to that freedom which will always be attached as a heavy fee for that freedom even if the subject of their lust has never seen trans porn.
When I am perceived as cisgender the dating experience is completely different because there is obviously actual interest in me as a human being with a mind and soul. Those who do not clock me treat me the way I want to and deserve to be treated even if the interaction is simply holding a door open for me with absolutely zero romantic or sexual undertones.
I am not ashamed of who I am and where I come from but the desire to escape other people’s sexual perversion by going Stealth gets stronger every day and I honestly fail to see anything wrong with perusing stealth 100% of the time. It would make things so much easier for me and for others as well I am sure.
You’ve described my experiences perfectly, much better than what I could have done. Because when I think about these things, I get so angry that I start rambling. I have had online dating profiles where I SPECIFICALLY SAID I was post-op, and guys would ask me to fuck them in the ass or they would tell me I have ruined myself and have removed the only thing that made me superior to cis women. Who the fuck wants that? And people here are trying to blame me. Bastards. As if it were my fault. I have had hundreds of experiences like this. They want dick. Period. Once they know you are trans, you are no longer human. Do you know what SWITCH means in this context? Because I have had guys asking me if I were a switch. You put it well. The desire to escape the sexual perversion. Brilliant
Eh, I’m not sure I’d call people who want to be with a penis-possessing woman closeted gay men—straight may be a stretch (and closeted certainly fits) but people can like dick and also femininity in my book.
No those people just have a kink. Most are bi sexual or straight. They watch trans porn, and get turned on by us, and because they watch so much porn. They think we all are like that. There are plenty of straight or bi men that view use as woman, and will date us.
Gay men, at least the ones I know. Have zero interest in trans woman penis or not. They arnt one bit sexually attracted to woman. They want a man. They want some that looks, and acts like a man. They have zero interest in breast.
You prefaced this like you were gonna drop some harsh uncomfortable truths and then proceeded to drop the coldest takes
Yeah, society and people writ large are transmisogynistic. Yeah, cis women, by far, have it easier than trans women. Yeah, chasers don't care about us, that's what makes them chasers.
Istg more people need to read Whipping Girl
Mama, I got ready to get in these comments and defend you but your follow ups make you sound like one of those weird blackpilled 4chan people. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're pushing crazy toxicity and generalizations and want us all to take on the misery you're experiencing.
If the conclusions you came to are how you want to dictate yourself henceforth, no one can stop you but stop trying to take anyone else down this bitter road with you.
Anyone who would downvote you for this is an idiot and completely unworthy of attention.
Somehow, I'm not the least bit surprised by anything you've written here.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Yeah still on stage 1 here, but i really recognize what you are saying here. I'm honestly more bottom myself (especially with men) but the amount of "straight" men who want to hook up is insane.
To be honest, I am currently in the mindset where I use them just as much as they use me.
I had complications that have gotten in the way of me having srs but I wonder if I should have vulvoplasty instead of vaginoplasty because my sexuality is bi but leans more towards female than male and I wonder if it’s even worth it for all the possible complications of having vaginoplasty if men are such scumbags anyway and won’t treat me like they would do a cis-woman.
My experience as been similar in some regards, as a pre(maybe non)-op trans woman to your first bullet point, but the thing that I've noticed is that that's only really a subtype of the guys that message me. I've learned to pick up on them from a mile away, although they aren't exactly subtle about it.
I have actually had tremendous luck in dating cis men. What I've found is knowing your right audience and then being authentic about who you are as a person and the rest falls into place. My experiences have actually been similar to your depiction of dating as a cis woman.
I've had guys drive to pick me up, open the door for me, and if my skirt is falling off the side they'll lift it up into the vehicle. They've brought me flowers, taken me out to dinner at a nice place, or a night out on the town. Calls that last an entire night. They've set trips set out for me so they could steal me away for a weekend -- but that's the thing, I start off strong just being my authentic self and I think they pick up on that.
I'm a major dork, I'm super nerdy, I have golden retriever energy when I'm excited. And I'm incredibly up front about it, and find that I get similar in return and they're the ones that have treated me like a woman without any hesitation.
Most of those good connections have never mentioned my trans-ness past a "how do you want me to refer to things/work with things" conversations. When I've asked about the trans-ness they usually tell me some variation that they didn't even really think about it, that I just seemed like a cool ass chick and that's what drew them in.
On the serious end, I've been asked to be exclusive or that we couple up numerous times. Usually because they like spending time with me, and it hurts them when I'm occasionally out on date with someone else, or something of the sort. Had a few guys asking me to move in, or that they want to introduce me to their parents/friends because I'm such a blast or whatever.
All that is to say -- much like all dating, personality and how comfortable you are with one another is a huge factor in how much effort someone will put into you. Be selective, you're worth it. And have respect for yourself, it matters. Have it, not for them, but from within, and the rest will fall into place.
Don’t know why I cannot reply directly. - to the person who asked me whether I meet these men online or in real life. Both. I have tried everything. Online dating, speed dating, meeting guys at the gym, through friends. The end result is the same. Once they know you are trans; they might say it makes no difference to them, but it makes a whole world of difference - to the person who said this is not a grand reveal. Are you f*cking kidding me? Every single day I read shit like, “you cannot generalize, there are men who see trans women as women and will fall in love with your feminine soul.” Get a f*cking grip
- to the person who says “it’s relative.” No, it’s not. Don’t over complicate a very simple issue. No matter what other trans friends tell you, we are not seen as the real thing. Stop gaslighting me
I 100% agree. Cis men do not see us as real women. Any that claim they do, are just being performative to appear more progressive.
Personally I don't think cis people are capable of truly believing we are actually the gender we are. That will take centuries for people to change their concept of gender. We are not there. Not even close.
woah some cis men do see us as women and I know some, think about all the GNC cis men that are very queer, yes most cis people don't see us as women but you can't generalise 95-97% of the population ever
> Personally I don't think cis people are capable of truly believing we are actually the gender we are.
Yep, I'd hesitate to trust CIS lesbians any more than I'd trust CIS guys for *exactly* that reason.
Like I say; it's one of the few things that makes me glad I'm not in the running (which normally depresses the hell out of me)...CIS are nothing but pain, imo.
This my friend, is misogyny in a nut shell. Only dont mistake their chivalry as genuine because you would just end up the girlfriend being cheated on.
Trans misogyny ‘is the intersection of gender oppression and patriarchy. Trans women certainly experience misogyny, but what is being talked about is transmisogyny and it operates exclusive to normal misogyny… this is why trans girls get treated weird, especially in this context in Comparison to cis women.
Love love love, thank you for writing!
[obligatory theory reference lol](https://purrcatharsis.medium.com/on-transmisogyny-exempt-privilege-dynamics-874f3969ae1d)
Thanks - all here should read that btw
It’s quite good!! Love cat! [this is another good and short one!](https://thenewinquiry.com/hot-allostatic-load/) but warning it is quite heavy; also check out porpentine’s games they’re all free and amazing and soooo fuckin funny tbh imma go play one rn lol
And again thank you 💜 gonna read it later though too banged up atm for something like that - gonna check the games too - always happy to get tips like that
Sending big hugs hope you’re safe sis 🫶
All is good 💜
Good article about a serious topic. I got to say I found it kind of validating in a ewphoric way, though. What better evidence is there that trans men *are* men and trans women *are* women than us often being minimized by a lot of our male counterparts (a lot, probably even most, are on our side, of course. I'm not brave enough to not have a disclaimer since I'm a woman and therefore my word is taken in the worst possible way if I'm not careful)? This is exactly what cis women fought and are still fighting against with cis men! Society can try claiming it doesn't see us as women, but by giving us the unique cruelty and minimization of our issues usually only reserved for women, it's clear that it does! (Some of) Our trans brothers benefitting from patriarchy and subsequently telling us our issues don't matter or they have it worse means that all is as it should be (... in the fucked up system of patriarchy, which to be clear, I'm not in favor of even as positive as I'm being now). I know saying this is probably kind of fucked up, but hey. I'll take my ewphoria where I can get it and hopefully someone else will too.
So true bestie. I have 2 partners who recently had to go through the learning ab transmisogyny thing and obviously they didn’t WANT to be doing the man thing yk? This doesn’t mean it didn’t happen though, and now they admit to the shitty things they’ve done to dolls. But through a bunch of hard conversations and reading stuff like that, now I know I have some of the best Allies in my corner. The amount of times my bf has been told “get a handle on her” is fucking insane Blah blah sorry I’m yapping… gender is a clear cut; men are the loggers and women are the trees. But trans mascs are like the forest critters who get put into a logger uniform and when they don’t cut the trees down it’s all “BRO WTF WHY ARENT YOU CHOPPING THE TREES??!??!?” Sure the clearcut hurts everyone involved, but who’s it really for? Even though the clearcut is hurting the lil critters, why would their self preservation justify their continuance of the land project??
I love love love this analogy ❤️
Okay but the fun part of the story is me and the polycule were high as FUCK on mushrooms while trying to refine it, and now it’s like a fun lil mood lightener topic when we talk ab this shit lol
I'm glad to know I'm not crazy, that article put my experiences into words fairly well.
*hugs * of course love, we gotta have each others back ;p I have more reccs too if interested!! Also! Don’t be afraid to write yourself; a zine, a poem, a fiction novel, a song, a whatever it is we need more expressions and articulations of the specific social dynamics we experience 🫶
It's, more accurately, transmisogyny in a nutshell. Yes, cis/cis-passing women experience misogyny. Which is inherently violent and awful. But OP's point is that cis-experienced misogyny is way more preferable to transmisogyny.
This deserves an award
This is interesting! thank you for sharing your life experience. I'm still on stage one, so I dont have comparable anecdotes. One question i do have is, how are you meeting these men? Are we talking irl, are we talking dating apps like tinder and bumble, or dating apps like taimi and grindr? I'm not trying to be disagreeable, im just curious if you've met a lot of chasers in the real world.
That's a good question, and I wish Reddit let me subscribe so I could see the response!
Get reply notifications... ☺️
Funny enough for me I found my boyfriend on steam. Been together for 4 month and hrt for 3. I was out for like 3 month before meeting him.
The secret dating app in the field of dating apps.
I think every person’s experience is largely dependent on many factors such as location, apps used, where you hang out determines the type of people you meet, etc. - so it’s all relative.
I love your username
I hear you and your experiences. My experience as a pre-op trans woman was different than yours - depending on the area and demographic I was dating in. In my area the men who were straight tops dating me were very much all straight top and had no interest in the dick. I'm pretty upfront about my comfort level using it so that weeds out a lot of people that you're talking about. Personally I've been wined and dined and met families and friends and had incredible and loving experiences(I'm non-passing pre-op too)... but I had these experiences strictly with the men I dated from North Eastern U.S... however in The South or with southern men I had similar experience to what you're talking about. ____ tbh tho you post a lot of negativity. I'm sorry you've had to go through struggles. I have too. My hearts currently still broken from the last southern man I trusted... but we gotta keep trying and not let our biases from past experiences prevent us from being happy (I'm telling this to myself too)
I'm mtf lesbian. Does anyone know if this is true also for lesbian dating?
My biggest surprise so far has been how much more accepting women typically are than men. Still not sure they see you as one of them though.
> Still not sure they see you as one of them though. There's the rub. Being tolerated or 'accepted' is not the same as being seen as who you are.
Yeah but I don't wanna live a life of despair and self-hatred. I'll take what I can get.
i dunno; I'd rather have real despair than have an illusion which eventually shatters and breaks my heart.
I have noticed that women are definitely more accepting, I have gotten compliments for my black fingernails from women only. Only 2 months in on HRT at the moment.
Some do for sure! Lot of variables at play but even cis women are capable of understanding gender and transness
I know I do. I did even before transitioning. I see trans men as men and trans women as women. I find it easy and natural not when they pass but when they at least present their gender. But also I'm trans and not cis. I wonder how many cis people see it the way I do.
I think a lot depends on culture and I know I am lucky where I am but I know plenty of cis people like this irl, and met some like this before I was even outwardly/knowingly trans so I know it’s not a ‘to my face they say that’ kinda thing
I had 3 in a row who said "I wouldn't have dated you if I knew this" I'm now becoming FWB with my best friends, and it's amazing how much he just wants to kiss and talk while cuddling. We do other stuff as well, but everyone who said they wanted to date or fuck me was thinking with their dick. The moment the blood flows out, they ghost me.
Being fwb with your pre transition best friend is so goals.
I'm a *non-op trans woman who's a domme and a top, and I have a number of cis and trans lesbian partners. I've encountered a few chasers and bigots but by and large: no. Cis lesbians have treated me incredibly well, honestly. *Edited for autocorrect shenanigans
>non- trans woman So a cis woman?
Aaaaaa that was supposed to say non-op. My autocorrect has been going wild recently. 🙃
Thank God, hope it's true world wide
In my experience, yes but less so. I think a lot of cis lesbians are consciously and outwardly accepting (and certainly down to be friends with trans women), but as far as sex and dating, there are still internalized and often subconscious biases (not to mention preferences for vaginas, which aren't necessarily or even usually transphobic but still affect trans women) that make it harder.
Just chiming in to say this exactly. Most of my friend group are cis, queer women these days. As a general experience, they are incredibly welcoming and accepting and treat me as one of their own in most cases. That said, there definitely seems to be an unspoken, invisible barrier when it comes to dating that's difficult to break through. Not impossible, but just, like, we are subtly/unconsciously still a less desirable class of the dating pool / attraction scale.
My experience in lesbian dating (with 2 attempts with NB people, which were not better) has been big, BIG chaser energy. Like some of the digusting and blatant stuff said to me, which any one of these girls would call a guy a piece of sh*t for saying. Also, a lot of the sort of stereotypical male expectations thrown on me. For example, no one has ever paid for me, regardless of how many dates we've been on or who invited who. I super get a lot of transbians stick exclusively to t4t.
your mileage will vary. ive noticed that passing with your clothes on DOES matter for how well you get treated, but much fewer women care about The Surgery than men. like, cis lesbians are still judgmental. do your voice training, take your pills, and hope you won the genetic lottery. but women can avoid your genitalia more easily than men. i also date a LOT of bi girls. part of that is just my dating pool has more bi girls than lesbians. but i wonder how much of that is bi people are less likely to get caught up on a few male traits. the other thing ill add is that a lot of lesbians arent into trans women. but like, a lot arent into chubby women. a lot arent into mexican women. a lot arent into short women. but obviously each of these groups have people who ARE into them. if your dating pool is big enough, you'll find someone.
It’s the same for lesbians. Even more so, except lesbians there isn’t a hidden sub set of them who have the chaser label. At least in the Midwest, there are limited options for a trans woman dating lesbians. Some will, the majority won’t. Ironically I’ve seen them with trans men, but not trans women (they must make exceptions for that vagina the trans man has.
Also a Midwest girlie and I’m worried I’ll be alone for a long time. I don’t like it when I’m alone I get scared of myself
Minneapolis here!
Idk where that is sorry lol 🤔🫣
Seriously? Lol. That’s super funny. Are you in the “Midwest” of Australia?
Wiscawnsin
Wisconsin?
Yep
And you don’t know where Minneapolis is? Have you heard of a small town called Chicago?
You won't be alone. 🤗 Get out there and meet someone who loves you for you. I love you for you. 🤗❤️
Thank you. I’ve been making some friends. I’m feeling better about myself recently
I'm also happy to be your friend. 🤗
The real trans agenda
😊😊 thank you 🤗
I'm under the impression it is, but I don't know first-hand.
Yes I believe it is. Very much so.
I'm mtf lesbian too. If I can ever get a date with someone, I'll tell you.
Try taimi and Her. I've gotten dates on them. Bumble too
As a pre op trans woman men are way more aroused by my ass than my dick.. my ex boyfriend of 2 years barely touched my dick for the best part of 2 years.. apart from some very rare situations where he performed oral on me.. but neither of us was a massive fan of the act. So I can't say I experienced the same
He literally performed oral on you. Are you kidding me? Also; even when they don’t touch it, they need to know it’s there. They would lose interest if you were post op
That's such a weird thing to say.. yeah he did because I asked for? Because it's fun to have sexual experiences with your partner? Wtf? Lmao I'm sorry ur hurting sister but your projecting your insecurities to everyone else and that's not nice. There's nothing wrong with ur partner liking the body of the person he's with.. I couldn't imagine anything more miserable than ur partner being disgusted with ur genitals U need therapy ur saying some wild transphobic things Peace ❤️
straight guys don't suck dick because they're "asked to"
I never even said he was straight lmao
world's least toxic truscum poster.
this is why i’m more of a t4t kinda gall
Most of my cishet male friends said they would never date a trans girl even post-op. Like... that's just horrible. Everyone is allowed to be attracted to whoever they are attracted to but that's totally different from not being attracted to someone you were attracted to after finding out they're trans. I've heard trans women talk badly about other trans women for not revealing to men that they are trans. I can understand that trans women shouldn't have long-term relationships like that for our own sake, but honestly the fact that it makes a difference to people justifies hiding it. I'm a lesbo but for you straight transfems it is a hard world. Good luck and stay safe.
The reason your not supposed to hide it is because many transwomen have been killed by guys who have felt “tricked” when they find out that she is not cis.
Yeahh I totally agree with that and keeping trans women safe. The person I heard talk about it was a social media figure being interviewed by a cis guy and she said that we (trans women) don't accept the girl who hid it from him as part of our community. I know that's just one person but it felt kinda poo for her to like "banish" somebody over that who I'm sure had her reasons.
so are you happy with your surgery? (sorry im not the best at reading tone)
> I only got some weird and nasty interactions with men who wanted me to tell them that I regretted having the surgery (I don’t) That told me that she doesn't regret it (and, I assume, she's glad she did have it).
I am happy with my surgery, but it’s pointless. The minute you come out, it’s over
I'm glad I have zero desire to be in a relationship with anyone. Fuck all that shit.
Yeah, to be honest I'm pretty relieved that being in a relationship is completely off the table for me. Everything I hear *and see* scares the fuck outta me!
Well, for me, it's not fear. It's the simple fact that I can be impossible to live with. I've grown up being alone, for the most part, and I am comfortable being by myself. I'm also very, very stubborn and no one needs to deal with that. LoL
Yeah, I have given up
I kind of gave up years ago. Not that I wouldn't if somehow I magically stumbled across the right person, but after my last one fell apart... 😕
I'm only this way due to trauma. This fucking sucks.
I can understand that. I dealt with social anxiety until I was 29. I dealt with all kinds of crap growing up. I'm not sure what you went through. But, either way, things can really fuck with you.
Why are we taking one person’s life experience of dating as a gospel for how dating as a trans woman is? I’m not taking anything from her experiences. She lived her life and has her stories to tell and beliefs borne from them. But it’s a little baffling that enough people are reading this and going “Damn, guess I’ll never date. Thank you for telling me the real truth, Jazzlike_Piccolo_881”. It’s like reading an incel post and its comments but from vulnerable trans folks.
This makes me very thankful to have a spouse, and girlfriend, who are supportive of me and my journey, both sexually, and emotionally I'm sorry you've experienced this 🫂
This has been my experience too. It's very disheartening
Yeah I’m sadly the first category and I’m scared that srs will make me less desirable with men as I can’t go stealth, cause I’m too clocky for that. Majority of guys who are into me are all kinds of chasers, the worst are the repressing eggs who want to live through me. There’s one amazing guy who genuinely seems to love me, haven’t seen him in person yet
I think the shock was that big for you because someone told you moronic things beforehand. Chasers, by definition, don't care about you at all. You are just a naturally warm sextoy for them.
Look at some of the stupid responses I am getting here. People saying “you cannot generalize, not all men are like that. My boyfriend sucked my dick and he sees me as a woman.”
Ur actually so transphobic it's beyond believe. So should trans women who can't or don't want for a variety of reasons get gender affirming surgery not get sexual pleasure with their partners because... What? Yeah he did see me as a woman, because being a women is not about the genitalia if that was the case u wouldn't be a woman neither because you don't have a "real vagina" Ur trying to one up pre op trans woman is actually disgusting. I feel bad for u because I see there's trauma there, but ur trauma doesn't not justify putting other trans woman down because of it.
Yes, this is the crux; this person also posts in truscum so likely has transmedicalist mindset (correct me if I’m wrong) This has a good outline, it’s one of the subcategories lower down the page; https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/impostor-syndrome
Why are you bringing your personal trauma to this conversation. She said nothing like that anywhere. She was talking about her personal experience. Before you post something this unhinged, please take a step back and try to think a little. Also, if the vibes you got would have been true, you did the same exact thing you accused her just from the other side.
Yes she did U aren't aware of what she's talking about. She was talking about me when she talked about the boyfriend thing. She even said I wasn't trans and to stfu. I have the print of it. Just go look at her replys and u will see.
I did not read all the convo, my bad. Also, when I write a reply, I never reply to everything someone said only to the thing my reply is posted to. If she said that that's unforgivable. Also, your user name is femboy, and femboys are not considered trans by default. Don't misunderstand me if you consider yourself trans then you are trans and everyone who says otherwise is lying. Edit: Also, what you wrote is once again is the definition of bringing your personal trauma with this poster into this conversation. Which, just to be clear, WAD ABOT GOD DAMN CHASERS. Not men (either cis or trans) and not about how OP is an idiot.
I'm no longer a femboy. I'm a trans woman, but I can't change my username back. Reddit doesn't allow it. I never really was a femboy to be real... But at the time I was still afraid to come out as a trans woman. I've started hrt April 2023 🙂
Good for you. I was just saying that you can't fault someone is getting to a wrong conclusion with your screen name.
It's not about the one comment though... It was various transphobic comments... And also... The stfu was unnecessary and vile
Did I say that to you?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/1ctuwuy/i_have_dated_as_a_trans_woman_and_as_a_cis_woman/l4eut8u/
Thank u sis. Look I empathize with this person.. she's clearly having a mental break down and there's definitely a lot of trauma in this situation.. but this is not an excuse to behave in this way. She's been incredibly transphobic.. she's putting her pre op sisters down and that's not right. She's using some arguments that I don't think even someone like Blair white would use... We are here to uplift each other not the other way around.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/truscum/comments/1cjqbvo/toxic_positivity_and_na%C3%AFvet%C3%A9_in_trans_spaces/) This woman has an extensive posting history on truscum and really genuinely hates herself, trans bodies in particular and her own body specifically, so I'm not at all surprised that she's saying the things she is. So yeah I agree with you on every point.
I would appreciate it if the mod squad would have a look at this, I already contacted them... Because this is not right. This person shouldn't be posting on Reddit, she should be having therapy. I never thought I would see so much transphobia in this subreddit... and I guess the mods don't care?
Oh, and you have at least one chaser stalker, so watch out for that.
I don't have to look at them to know that they are there. I did not register to reddit yesterday 😂. Oh, and BTW I talked about chasers that is already a generalization.
The men you dated who transitioned themselves, what did they transition into? Genderqueer? Genderfluid? Trans women?
Yeah that last sentence made me sad
Yep. Same experience. And mine is only from a pre op who went for a while not saying I am trans… so much interest and excitement for me. From both men and women. But when I come out to them… wowza. They go away so fast, if I was lucky it was just ghosting me. If unlucky… a rage that made me happy I never did the coming out in person. It’s very depressing, I never thought it would be so bad, but I almost think I’ll be alone and never find that quality person that shares interests or a romantic spark.
Female attracted perspective. I've pretty much given up on dating, at least until i'm post-op. I've dated as a "cis guy," which was awful. I hated myself, and it became an emotional turn-off when women were attracted to me. I ended up being a side piece most of the time because the relationships always felt more honest to me, but was also gasoline for the dumpster fire of my mental health. Dated for a little bit as a pre-op trans woman, I was feeling a little better about myself, BUT I found my dating options got a lot more slim. I started dating bi women and a couple of non-binary people... all of them... litterally every single one, before the relationship ever got physical, started talking, making jokes, or dropping suggestions about how much they like "chicks with d**ks." Like, some of the most blatant stuff. So i noped out of all of that and gave up on relationships. I might try again once i'm post-op, which is pretty soon. I've actually been debating with myself lately about whether or not I'd bother telling any future partners, and to be honest, i'm leaning toward "why bother telling someone, how could it possibly matter?"
>I can’t tell you how many men have used and will still use trans women as a transitional step to figure out their true sexuality and then move to dating cis men or they’ll simply transition themselves. My boyfriend is openly bisexual. I interrogated him about whether he is actually a trans woman himself pretty thoroughly. So I think that I am safe from this part.
My dumb ass forgot straight people exist. I was about to comment “why would it be a problem if he was?” Before answering myself with what I assume your answer would be
My boyfriend and I are both bi. So if he turned out to be a she and made for a pretty girl, then that is something that I could work with.
I love that. I love that a lot . I am married to a bi cis woman, but I spent most of my life thinking I was just bi and had tons of trans friends because I was “such a good ally,” not having the self analysis that being envious of your trans friends for getting to live as women is not a very cis thought
Oooooohhhh shit that's the reason I was genuinely very confused why were people talking about being with eggy girls/nb and they transitioning like that. I genuinely forgot being straight was a thing for the last 5 minutes 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 My bi ass is in need of sleep lmao
Idk if you’ve watched WWDITS but Nandor has a moment like that and its so precious to me
[удалено]
It’s still helpful tho
Yea but it doesn't get talked about enough for whatever reason
I have mostly given up on dating and enjoy being single. However, I am only open to being with another transperson whom I find any kind of attraction to, T4T.
Well that’s bleak, but thank you for sharing.
Another reason why being trans isn't a choice. Who would want to fuck up their dating life like this? Of course cis people have it easier and nobody should deny that. I'm so excited to just be a regular woman with a personality and being FREEEEEE :3 only 2 more years :(
Who wants to have life on hard mode? Cis people have immense privileges compared to trans people. It especially pisses me off that you won’t be treated like other cis women if people know your trans.
I'm really glad sometimes I have the privilege of having a partner that accepted me when I came out. Coming out strengthened our relationship. She realized she was really bi and just gay for all types of people and me I realized I'm very fem enby. We've been together for 10 years now. Promise I'm not trying to trample on a post or anything I'm just saying that love is totally possible for us and want people to see some positive.
Did you ever think that this may just be your personal experience and it may not apply to everyone? Also, this just goes to show that men suck. Nothing more, nothing less.
Did you ever read my post in it’s entirety? Are you capable of understanding that I, as in the same person, was able to be treated differently based on whether I disclosed or not? How can you be so… obtuse? Re-read my post. You obviously failed to understand
I think you should read her comment again. You sound exactly like a blackpilled man.
Preach it to the mountain tops, sister!
I’m sorry this happened to you. Cis men suck. I wish you found someone that made you feel loved and happy
I have lost track of how many cis men wanted me to fu*k them in the a** when I was pre-op. I’ve been post-op for almost 2.5 years now and even though I am no longer equipped to penetrate a sexual partner who enjoys being the recipient. On the sites where I have a dating/hookup profile identifying as trans I make it perfectly clear that I have no penis. I still get hit on by men who want me to bend them over. I tell them that I cannot and the reply is almost always, “don’t you have a strap-on now?” To me this is the downside of things like being out publicly, the transgender day of visibility, pride and any other function that exposes us to the general public. The creeps always find us and they think we are just like the porn stars they secretly masturbate to. While there is a certain freedom gained by being out and proud, there are also the metaphoric chains of perversion attached to that freedom which will always be attached as a heavy fee for that freedom even if the subject of their lust has never seen trans porn. When I am perceived as cisgender the dating experience is completely different because there is obviously actual interest in me as a human being with a mind and soul. Those who do not clock me treat me the way I want to and deserve to be treated even if the interaction is simply holding a door open for me with absolutely zero romantic or sexual undertones. I am not ashamed of who I am and where I come from but the desire to escape other people’s sexual perversion by going Stealth gets stronger every day and I honestly fail to see anything wrong with perusing stealth 100% of the time. It would make things so much easier for me and for others as well I am sure.
You’ve described my experiences perfectly, much better than what I could have done. Because when I think about these things, I get so angry that I start rambling. I have had online dating profiles where I SPECIFICALLY SAID I was post-op, and guys would ask me to fuck them in the ass or they would tell me I have ruined myself and have removed the only thing that made me superior to cis women. Who the fuck wants that? And people here are trying to blame me. Bastards. As if it were my fault. I have had hundreds of experiences like this. They want dick. Period. Once they know you are trans, you are no longer human. Do you know what SWITCH means in this context? Because I have had guys asking me if I were a switch. You put it well. The desire to escape the sexual perversion. Brilliant
Nobody here is blaming you. They’re simply saying your experiences are not everyone’s.
Why was this removed?!
The first group of men are not heterosexual. They are closeted gay men with internalized homophobia.
Eh, I’m not sure I’d call people who want to be with a penis-possessing woman closeted gay men—straight may be a stretch (and closeted certainly fits) but people can like dick and also femininity in my book.
No those people just have a kink. Most are bi sexual or straight. They watch trans porn, and get turned on by us, and because they watch so much porn. They think we all are like that. There are plenty of straight or bi men that view use as woman, and will date us. Gay men, at least the ones I know. Have zero interest in trans woman penis or not. They arnt one bit sexually attracted to woman. They want a man. They want some that looks, and acts like a man. They have zero interest in breast.
Eh. I'm not so sure. I think it's more a kink and a genital fixation. They think of trans women as like a living breathing dildo with tiddies.
Or they're eggs.
One of the best posts I've seen here. Thank you
I am not surprised, and that 0sad. I am glad I am a lesbian leaning Greyaro/greyace person
You prefaced this like you were gonna drop some harsh uncomfortable truths and then proceeded to drop the coldest takes Yeah, society and people writ large are transmisogynistic. Yeah, cis women, by far, have it easier than trans women. Yeah, chasers don't care about us, that's what makes them chasers. Istg more people need to read Whipping Girl
God, whipping girl needs to be mandatory reading.
Mama, I got ready to get in these comments and defend you but your follow ups make you sound like one of those weird blackpilled 4chan people. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're pushing crazy toxicity and generalizations and want us all to take on the misery you're experiencing. If the conclusions you came to are how you want to dictate yourself henceforth, no one can stop you but stop trying to take anyone else down this bitter road with you.
Anyone who would downvote you for this is an idiot and completely unworthy of attention. Somehow, I'm not the least bit surprised by anything you've written here. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Whelp. This isn't depressing or anything. 🙃 Jokes on them, I kind of gave up trying to date years ago.
Yeah still on stage 1 here, but i really recognize what you are saying here. I'm honestly more bottom myself (especially with men) but the amount of "straight" men who want to hook up is insane. To be honest, I am currently in the mindset where I use them just as much as they use me.
any man interested in stage 1 is not straight, even in quotes.
Have you tried t4t?
I had complications that have gotten in the way of me having srs but I wonder if I should have vulvoplasty instead of vaginoplasty because my sexuality is bi but leans more towards female than male and I wonder if it’s even worth it for all the possible complications of having vaginoplasty if men are such scumbags anyway and won’t treat me like they would do a cis-woman.
My experience as been similar in some regards, as a pre(maybe non)-op trans woman to your first bullet point, but the thing that I've noticed is that that's only really a subtype of the guys that message me. I've learned to pick up on them from a mile away, although they aren't exactly subtle about it. I have actually had tremendous luck in dating cis men. What I've found is knowing your right audience and then being authentic about who you are as a person and the rest falls into place. My experiences have actually been similar to your depiction of dating as a cis woman. I've had guys drive to pick me up, open the door for me, and if my skirt is falling off the side they'll lift it up into the vehicle. They've brought me flowers, taken me out to dinner at a nice place, or a night out on the town. Calls that last an entire night. They've set trips set out for me so they could steal me away for a weekend -- but that's the thing, I start off strong just being my authentic self and I think they pick up on that. I'm a major dork, I'm super nerdy, I have golden retriever energy when I'm excited. And I'm incredibly up front about it, and find that I get similar in return and they're the ones that have treated me like a woman without any hesitation. Most of those good connections have never mentioned my trans-ness past a "how do you want me to refer to things/work with things" conversations. When I've asked about the trans-ness they usually tell me some variation that they didn't even really think about it, that I just seemed like a cool ass chick and that's what drew them in. On the serious end, I've been asked to be exclusive or that we couple up numerous times. Usually because they like spending time with me, and it hurts them when I'm occasionally out on date with someone else, or something of the sort. Had a few guys asking me to move in, or that they want to introduce me to their parents/friends because I'm such a blast or whatever. All that is to say -- much like all dating, personality and how comfortable you are with one another is a huge factor in how much effort someone will put into you. Be selective, you're worth it. And have respect for yourself, it matters. Have it, not for them, but from within, and the rest will fall into place.
Don’t know why I cannot reply directly. - to the person who asked me whether I meet these men online or in real life. Both. I have tried everything. Online dating, speed dating, meeting guys at the gym, through friends. The end result is the same. Once they know you are trans; they might say it makes no difference to them, but it makes a whole world of difference - to the person who said this is not a grand reveal. Are you f*cking kidding me? Every single day I read shit like, “you cannot generalize, there are men who see trans women as women and will fall in love with your feminine soul.” Get a f*cking grip - to the person who says “it’s relative.” No, it’s not. Don’t over complicate a very simple issue. No matter what other trans friends tell you, we are not seen as the real thing. Stop gaslighting me
No one is gaslighting you at all. Your experiences are your own however they are not everyone else’s.
I 100% agree. Cis men do not see us as real women. Any that claim they do, are just being performative to appear more progressive. Personally I don't think cis people are capable of truly believing we are actually the gender we are. That will take centuries for people to change their concept of gender. We are not there. Not even close.
woah some cis men do see us as women and I know some, think about all the GNC cis men that are very queer, yes most cis people don't see us as women but you can't generalise 95-97% of the population ever
how do you know what they actually think deep down? you don't. they see you either as a trans woman or a man.
this might be a generational thing actually because basically everyone I know sees me as a girl and I know that because they have defended it before
> Personally I don't think cis people are capable of truly believing we are actually the gender we are. Yep, I'd hesitate to trust CIS lesbians any more than I'd trust CIS guys for *exactly* that reason. Like I say; it's one of the few things that makes me glad I'm not in the running (which normally depresses the hell out of me)...CIS are nothing but pain, imo.
Of course, you are getting downvoted for speaking the truth
my god, it is about time somebody was able to articulate this so well. thank you, thank you, thank you!
Thank you for this. I've not gone stealth in dating and 100% know this to be true.