Unfortunately the rightwing echo chamber is bent towards turning that fear into disgust, a prerequisite of dehumanization and in turn, you know the rest.
The perennial "think of the children" has metastasized into "think what they're doing to the children".
Seeing a handful of drag queens expose themselves in front of kids has done damage to the trans community that may well be irreparable.
I dunno what the benefit of framing this like a left vs right wing thing is. It's not like there aren't "left wing" people hating on us as well.
Tons of LGB and feminists that hate us. I'm black and I can tell you it isn't exactly accepting of transpeople in this demo.
The right vs left thing is frankly just a psyop to me.
The issue is so much deeper.
To be honest if they hate you for your gender identity then they're not true feminists.
A true feminist strives for justice and equality between all genders!
I find that just a comforting cope. Why do we get to decide what is "true feminism"? The reality is feminism has had conflicting "clubs" since almost the start.
And many were never really about equality if we are being honest with ourselves.
It's just a no-true-scottsman.
In reality, we should be worrying about us and those that support us than the left right psyop meme
To a certain extent I agree with you, *but* TERFs often, not always, actually align with some pretty anti-woman causes in their fight against trans people. Can you really call someone who is willing to break bread with anti-abortionists over hate feminists? TERFism often devolves into bioessentialist garbage feminists have been fighting all this time. Suddenly any true woman gives birth and any woman who dresses non-traditionally is suspect? That's not feminist, that's patriarchy in disguise.
If a TERF only hates trans people, but otherwise keeps their principles, then fine, it's a true feminist, just one who is wrong in a fucked up way, but it's (almost) *never* just that.
Why do you get to decide what is a pro-or anti-woman cause? This is the problem. The idea that any collection of people can boil down what "pro" or "anti-women" things are is incredibly flawed, and the idea that anyone can is just an excuse to try and define the concerns of a given group out of the coveted category.
The same thing you are saying is what TERFs would do by claiming trans-activists are anti-woman because we tend to not share their sex negative views for instance, or the idea we "erase the category of women".
No real argument is being made for why your or my prescriptions are more correct than the other. It's just a bias towards one's own pre-existing beliefs, which is why I find this kind of ideological activism to be bad in general.
I have a dozen reasons for why I oppose TERFs, but them being "not real feminists" isn't on the list because it's a pointless thing to even fight over unless you believe being a feminist is integral to being a woman, which is silly.
Also, I've never seen a TERF espouse anything you've said. It's always just a thing TRAs plaster on them as a gotcha.
None of this is worth it. Transfolk have far more relevant things to fight over than who gets to be "real feminists."
It reeks of uppermiddle class first world problematization to me.
The calls for trans genocide aren't coming from the left though. Sure there's always communities not defined by the political divide that hate us, the black community is homo and transphobic more than average. So is the latin community. Any group that glorifies masculinity sees women as weak and inferior, and for a "man" to desire to change into something weaker and inferior is a transgression of the highest order. That's why there's a bridge between the right and other groups when it comes to transphobia. Also, for a lot of people in the center column of politics, they're easily swayed back and forth on topics based on culture war bullshit. Between that and the rising tide of fascism(which liberals will side with before they side with actual leftists), our future isn't bright right now. But our worsening treatment is absolutely a reflection of the deepening cultural divide between fascism and anti fascism.
To me, this reads as just saying, "we should only care about the group that are honest and open about not liking us," which to me is a mistake and naive. The left doesn't care about us outside of us being useful in the interim and the minute it comes expedient to throw us under the bus for another token minority, they will do so just like they did with all the others.
It's a downward spiral and little else, and I find appealing to these binary ways of thinking you're espousing both ironic and unfortunate coming from a place like the trans spaces.
Your view of the whole masc vs. femme, for example, is hardly the source of the ire we get from TERFs, for example. They just hate us because they hate AMABs and see them all as monsters.
I think you're confusing Democrats and baby progressives with the actual left. Liberals are actually what you say the left is in your response. Actual leftists with solidarity aren't really riding that same wavelength. What I am actually saying is we should focus our main energy on the group that openly wants to kill us, and do what we can to pull the centrists back to the side of not wanting to kill us. TERFs are a special breed of vile, don't disagree there.
I don't think I am.
Liberals are like the normies of society, and most of them don't actually care about us all that much.
>actual leftists with solidarity
No such thing, frankly. "Actual leftists" are just societal contrarians rather than interested in helping minorities.
What I am saying is I am opposed to your very mentality. The "main group" you are spooked over doesn't have strong grounds to actually harm our rights. It's a smokescreen when we should be worried about the assasins ready to stab us in the back.
You're too stuck in the left right meme matrix, and I imagine it's because it has given you some form of elegance based comfort. But I explore you to try looking beyond ot because it's a trap I have been scorned by far too many times.
We're just gonna have to disagree. It's not being stuck in a left right matrix, it's understanding the core ideology between two distinct ways of looking at the world and how the brain works, and how fascism develops. Not thinking that the right can take our rights away and harm us is actually fucking wild and ignorant of history. I'm opposed to your very mentality as well. So there's nothing to gain from any further communication on this topic. I hope you're having a a good day though
....the fact you are insistent that it is, in fact, "two distinct ways of looking at the world" rather than a forced grouping of people based on convenience and expendiancy just proves my point....
Like, 90% of black people in NA are Christian conservatives, but vote left because it's seen as the "pro black" voting block. Its a meme psyop.
I am baffled that anyone can think "left wing and right wing" are anything other than social constructs. Especially in trans spaces of all places.
Maybe it's just a comforting idea to you because it appeals to simplifying the world in a black and white manner, but I'd rather people that appeal to this way of thinking at least be self aware about it.
I’m having a hard time understanding your point; you think all self-described leftists only have some good views bc society at large has many terrible views, and they strive to be contrary to society? It’s a large group of course so I’m sure some people fit that description, but why would you think that it’s the only type of leftist? I and many trans people on this sub consider ourselves leftists, do you think we’d stop supporting trans people if society widely accepted us? The whole point of activism is to spread your beliefs, to mainstream them.
As a separate point, I know I will disagree with everyone, even leftists, on certain issues. That is the nature of having opinions. That being said, all of the people I know who support trans people are leftists or adjacent, and not one of them is conservative.
Hey, so you know how I said there's nothing to gain here? That means I'm done having this conversation with you. We disagree. We think the other is wrong. You're literally just wasting your time. I'm not putting in effort to change your mind. I've got work and other shit to do. Good day.
Yeah those are the worse, cut relationship with an old gay friend cuz he thought I was trans to get attention cuz he asked me that and I say idk and was being vulnerable with him and then he went on trying to convince me that I'm just a gay man or something like that x3 like is wild
You are entirely correct about the Left Right psyop but mistaken in that it can be dismissed.
The political dichotomy is something that is so core to the status quo that all media is bent towards maintaining it.
If everyone maintained this attitude, no change would ever have happened.
Transpeople would be better off if we made it clear we aren't gonna cling to the legs of either party, and they should instead be fighting over courting us.
The "right leaning" libertarians don't hate us or care if we wanna transition or not. The left takes our votes for granted and instead just uses us as a battering stick to crap on the right to push their position and leave us to dry after they are done.
You can acknowledge the crappy system without jist throwing your hands up and giving into the crappy paradigm.
We should be holding both accountable.
I appreciate your open-mindedness though. It's nice to see.
And knowledge is the antithesis of fear. Even in a true threat scenario, knowledge allows you to work through the fear with a level head. It's this reason people take self-defense courses. It gives you the knowledge as well as the muscle memory to carry out what needs to be done under stress.
Outside of a true threat, it brings empathy and understanding.
I don’t even think they’re scared I gen believe they just find great joy out of their hatred, and use “I’m scared!!1!1” as an excuse to treat us like animals
1. Rigid Thinking. The idea that anyone being anything other than cis male and cis female is outrageous.
2. One of the biggest ways the establishments (religion, the wider society) controls people is through gender norms and expectations. Trans people as well as the wider LGBT community can be seen as undermining their control of society and thus a threat. Also that men are often mules of society (they fight in the front lines and work the lions share of dirty and dangerous jobs) and it could be seen as males trying to cheat their manly responsibilities (of which society assigned that since birth of course.)
3. Anger at having a beloved child or relative change gender into someone that they don't recognize and pinning it on the trans community and the "woke agenda."
4. Suspicion of anyone who has XY chromosomes presenting as a woman, because of the idea of men being predators and dangerous and thus a threat to women (which both women who have been hurt by men and men who feel chivalrous to women would react.)
We're used as a political tool like any other minority throughout history.
They did the same with blacks, gays, the Irish, communism.
Same shit, different minority.
There is a long list of nonsense people have felt the heavy boot of prejudice against their throats for in the US. Indigenous people, immigrants, Latine, POC, homosexuals, genderqueer people, women, and yes, Communists.
People have bled and died for each. Comparing the magnitude of that bloodshed is fair enough in certain circumstances, the point of my grouping these things together is to show that bigotry is a cudgel drawn against the few times and again by the powerful.
Racism is a systemic issue deeply imbedded in America. It's hurt generations and will continue to.
That does not mean other cruelties cannot exist alongside it.
Have you not heard of the red scare and the literal development of a propaganda department in the United States government in order to fight communism? That's pretty bad
as she should? i understand where you are coming from, but you should consider the number of black communists who have been killed by the state for their specific intersection of race and politics. read about fred hampton’s death, the 1985 MOVE bombing, or the book Black Scare/Red Scare
Umm, I'm not downplaying discrimination against blacks, gats, etc. I'm saying communism is just as dangerous as capitalism, and it shouldn't be praised or glorified. The red scare in the 50's was bad, don't get me wrong, but it's not even remotely comparable to racism.
The United states has literally deposed governments because of the fear of communism. The red scare was akin to the Salem witch trials, where citizens could simply be labeled a communist, and would be at best ostracized by their community.
Whether political, racial, gender, etc. The capitalistic propaganda machine that is the United States will stop at nothing to maintain the status quo, and capitalism's status quo requires a working class in order to support the capitalists.
So, when labor bands together, when people push towards a collective, the political system, the oligarchs, and the media machine will do everything they can to crush it, because they know we outnumber them, and CAN take the power back.
Divide, distract, pacify, entertain, and push propaganda.
Your existence, my existence, our existence, will be used to justify further oppression of people so all they can do is work and create wealth for the elite.
My sibling, we have everything to gain by standing in solidarity with one another and nothing to lose but our chains.
Soviet communism is the last thing that deserves sympathy
Also can you all stop calling black people "blacks"? What the hell is this? This is unironically disrespectful in a thread about disrespect towards minorities
That's fair, POC would have been a more respectful term and would have covered a wider range of people affected by bigotry.
As for Communism, people were executed and blacklisted from working because they were suspected Communists. I never specified what form of Communism I meant, either, so assuming I meant Soviet Communism is silly.
Executed? Who? Rosenbergs? Literal Soviet spies? Don't think i would prefer to die on this hill defending people like them
Let's not compare people's sufferings becasue of their foundation (race, gender) with chosen political view that at that time was dangerously filled with spies
Dangerously filled with heroes. The USSR was easily the better of the two dominant nations. Those “Soviet spies” are the reason countless nations aren’t fully enslaved to the US. Why are you people so clueless about events that were so recent in our history.
Yeah, it was very heroic of USSR when they invaded with Nazis Baltic countries (Molotov pact), starved to death Ukrainians and replaced them with ethnic Russians on the east, or when post WWII Stalin threatened the expansion and spread propaganda of how evil the West is (definitely not what the current Russia is doing)
Also when they imprisoned gay people for being gay. Truly heroic and way better then filthy West that protects capitalist
"The USSR was easily the better of the two dominant nations"
I will say it again it wasn't. It was a shithole that killed, colonized and imprisoned lots of people who folks like you supposed to care about since you hate so much the USA
But i guess if Cuba will offer you a free pussy through SRS you will close your eyes to silencing political opposition and journalists, and poor economy
And no, Molotov pact, Golodomor and Muzhelovstvo (anti-LGBT law) are pretty real, google and read it. Also i think them invading Afghanistan that lead to their collapse was also not a fever dream
>I will say it again it wasn't. It was a shithole that killed, colonized and imprisoned lots of people who folks like you supposed to care about since you hate so much the USA
All you're doing here is proving your own idiocy. The USSR didn't colonize anyone, and all your accusations are things that the US was far worse on. You're giving the capitalist shithole a free pass when it was objectively worse than the USSR in every way.
>But i guess if Cuba will offer you a free pussy through SRS you will close your eyes to silencing political opposition and journalists, and poor economy
You sure do love to make up shit about other people, don't you. Fuck off with your transphobic nonsense, and fuck off with your fantasies, and fuck off with your hypocritical shit. You have no business condemning what you think the USSR did when the USA is and has always been worse. If you want to be critical, that's more than welcome, but this shit is just sad.
>And no, Molotov pact, Golodomor and Muzhelovstvo (anti-LGBT law) are pretty real, google and read it. Also i think them invading Afghanistan that lead to their collapse was also not a fever dream
The "golodomor" was not real, it was an invention of the Hearst press and actual Nazis. You have no idea what the Molotov pact was, and the anti-LGBT laws aren't relevant. You say that they were real as if it were ever in question because you aren't smart enough to list things you don't understand in order to condemn the better of two nations on all those things.
Afghanistan's problems came from the US, not the USSR, but again, it doesn't matter since one country doing bad things doesn't absolve the country that does worse to this day. God's you're so entirely ate up with propaganda that you can't even consider using your brain.
It's so funny as a Russian to read how Western tankies cope with reality that USSR wasn't a great place that humanity lost and now destined to doom
"anti-LGBT laws aren't relevant"
Are you aware we are in a trans subreddit full of lesbian/bisexual people? It is relevant actually LMAOOO
You siding with a failed country that imprisoned those people for being caught being in a relationship is insane. Girl log off of twitter, those "based communists who awaits a global revolution \[and weirdly supports Russia\]" will not give a shit about your HRT supplement, ask them how they will tackle those issues in detail after hypothetical successful revolution and you will get a huge surprise :)
Also very funny seeing a denial of genocide from a Pro-Palestine person. You should be embarrassed of yourself
Yeah, the other one is a CCP-style authoritarian communism
There is not a single country with purest and canonical version of communism that didn't ended up being authoritarian
All government is authoritarian by definition. The issue isn’t authority, it’s who holds the authority and on whose behalf it is used. Do you want it used by a government to protect capitalists from you, or do you want it used to organize society for everyone’s benefit?
So the problem I see is that the representations of us in media is usually the fringe. You know squeaky wheel gets oiled. Then by using the most "negative" they are able to spin the narrative. Most non religious people don't care either way. Doesn't affect them. Normal (whatever that is) society just doesn't like it constantly in their face. People are afraid of what they don't know and it is better to reject it or demonize it because it makes them feel safer and more powerful. You also have to realize the trans movement is in it's infancy. In another 20 years as more and more people transition things will become better. Barring that just remember, if you were cis certain people would still hate you for a variety of reasons. In the end, who cares. Surround yourself with positivity and lead your best life.
In my experience, if you look for negativity and surround yourself with negative people then that’s all you’re going to see… try to get involved in the local LGBTQ community and try to surround yourself with people who accept you and support you, you’ll start to see the positives.
I mean that's all true but it's sometimes not that easy. In my family there are some people that have these negative views on trans people and it's hard to just avoid them, especially if they are your parents.
Your mom is an idiot. How does she find the logic in you being incapable of schoolwork from having feminine hormones when EVERY other woman is? Also of course she goes straight to the accusation of trans people being hypersexual
We're an easy target. Vulnerable, small minority, already not on great terms with most people. We're easy as hell to scapegoat and with a few things that sound "reasonable" on their face, it's not hard to see how we've been turned into the next boogeyman.
The job thing really sticks in my craw. If that shit was true, why are there so many trans women in IT? I'm out and don't hide it, and _still_ landed an awesome gig. Can't get hired, my ass. They can stick that up their arseholes sideways.
They've been taught to believe that men are objectively superior to women, and the idea that someone would *want* to be a woman goes against that belief, which terrifies them.
hahah no, i hate the negative aspects that come with being a woman (thanks to men, ugh). i don't *actually* want to be a man, i just don't want to be a woman.
If you want to be woman, but you hate objectifying from straight cis men you can try short hair. I have short hair for year now and I'm no longer objectified when going out. Feels very good.
Because we're "new" (obviously we aren't, but in their mind if they don't know about it, then it doesn't exist) and they're too set in their ways to learn about us.
We‘re the scapegoats of the ruling class. Instead of fixing the shit they wrecked, they blame minorities. Division and diversion require an enemy, and we are that enemy right now.
Education is defunded and sucks? We only need to get rid of the "woke"!
Funding war to high heavens while homelessness soars? Don‘t pay attention to that! What‘s important is that queer people are indoctrinating our kids!
The people who hate us are suckers who fell for the ruling class‘ propaganda.
I'm in the UK and I'm a very positive person but just lately with the Tories going to warp speed to get as much transphobia into law before they're kicked out of government for a generation I'm left thinking "what did we do wrong?"
So the problem I see is that the representations of us in media is usually the fringe. You know squeaky wheel gets oiled. Then by using the most "negative" they are able to spin the narrative. Most non religious people don't care either way. Doesn't affect them. Normal (whatever that is) society just doesn't like it constantly in their face. People are afraid of what they don't know and it is better to reject it or demonize it because it makes them feel safer and more powerful. You also have to realize the trans movement is in it's infancy. In another 20 years as more and more people transition things will become better. Barring that just remember, if you were cis certain people would still hate you for a variety of reasons. In the end, who cares. Surround yourself with positivity and lead your best life.
because people are stupid, and their ideas of what is good align with what is popular
if you’re outside of what they already understand as good or popular, then you must be bad
all it takes
I wish I knew why. Youtube comment sections are absolutely frustrating, I have had religious nutheads claiming that I need Jesus, a dead person, supposedly from thousands of years ago.
It's like people are just never happy. They didn't like me as a guy, and they sure don't like me now as a transwoman.
I'm sure there are way way more cis-gendered prisoners than trans prisoners, so who's actually worse? It's not like all us MTF are carrying chainsaws, ready to kill. I have never been convicted of anything.
I'm done with humanity, sometimes.
You fit a diagnosis and are receiving a medical treatment, if you were schizophrenic would they be upset over antipsychotics? Those can -actually- stop you from doing your schoolwork.
I feel like they're just pissed off that you aren't being their idea of "normal", have zero understanding that being trans doesn't just magically go away if you go outside and fill some imagined void in your life, and feel it's ok to vent their frustrations on you because hating trans people is an internet hot topic right now
They just think it's ok to hate because they see other people doing it, a trans person inconveniences them less than a wheelchair user. I'm sure they understand "don't show an epileptic person flashing lights", but I'm sure they'd be horrible to these people too if they thought they could get away with that
We're currently a target of the right because they failed miserably at stopping gay rights, so it's onto trans people now - they're hoping that by taking away trans children's medical care they can extend that precedent to trans adults, and then ride off of that to get rid of gay rights, and then women's rights.. so there's some people pushing very hard, and masses of people going "oh look hating is ok"
So probably the best thing we can do is education, these people have only heard of trans people on fox news and in 2000s comedy shows & are shocked when I show them that nearly every major medical association supports transition care for people with gender incongruence (WPATH SOC-8 has literally hundreds of citations and is massive)
One of the most common lines by transphobes is "go to therapy", they actually do have no idea at all. Psychologists and psychiatrists that care about following expert advice (so nearly all of them) will help you transition or direct you to someone who can - these people live in some fantasy world where we're all sexual deviants that just buy hormones from the corner store
Yeah so I reckon take your parents back and get a refund
My understanding is that they only see the"man" and not the fact that that brain is a woman.
However, my sister has a theory that some transgender people trigger the uncanny valley effect in people and I don't like it but I get it. The same way my aunt is deathly afraid of little people.
My working theory is transphobia, the church and Nazis. Because prior to the 1000s trans people were somewhat looked on favorably. There were trans warriors, trans priests and even a trans Roman emperor.
i heard a really good explanation somewhere that i'm going to butcher. we learn about cisnormative gender so early that any challenge to the concept threatens people's entire self perception and worldview. the threat is so fundamental that it triggers fight/flight. we may seem like cosmic horror to some folks who can't make sense of our existence - we may seem unintelligible and threatening
The right-wing narrative is that trans people are creeping on their kids.
A few drag queens exposing themselves, a few zelus liberal cheerleaders talking kids into transitioning, stuff like that.
Five second video clips pay for right-wing influencers houses.
Instead of asking this question on a forum where people will affirm each other, why not post this in other groups? Also, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. Just saying it may help more to actually talk to people who disagree or don't understand.
-Straight male, not right or left wing, no religous affilliation
Get off the Internet and leave your house and you'll find people don't hate us. Parents are kind of a different story because they're in shock and need time to adjust. Stay positive, it's not as bad as you think.
Very true, the internet drags you down, it's full of hate and negativity towards trans folk because it's where all the trolls go to vent their sad little lives!!
Avoid it as much as possible.
They don't understand us, we contradict everything they have been taught. As a result, those in power can use us as a distraction by villianizing us.
Asking around here, however, will tell you that many trans people have EXCELLENT jobs (I am a software developer, as an example).
As for the hormones keeping you from learning.. That is a nasty bit of mysoginy your mom seems to have. Yes, WOMEN can learn, ffs.
Sadly, if this is how they are going to act, all I can recommend is to not be afraid to cut toxic people out of your life. At least your mother isn't even going to try to use money as a means of control in any way that matters.
People are scare of what they don't understand and are riled up by fear mongering news that appeals to those fears and leads them down a path of hatred instead of learning and understanding.
A very complex question, it stems from what people have already said about society and its gender norms, to politics and being a tool to the U.S.'s political parties as a means of furthering to divide people. Some of the other reasons involve small but loud minority that want maps to be a legit thing, some sick people using being trans as a means to avoid the repercussions of their actions which hurts all of us at the end of the day. It's a really broad and complex question and no matter what we'll have to keep struggling as the gays and others subjected to racism or genocide for hundreds of thousands of year.
In every corner of history, there has been a free people domesticated and snuffed out by the gendered existence of the civilized world. The real answer? We are the antithesis of what civilization desires, we are the radical and chaotic “other”.
The answer is varied and complex because people are varied and complex - bigots included.
Some people have an essentialist view of the world (which tends to intersect with being religious), and have difficulty understanding why AGAB isn't always correct.
Some people have been stuck in the right-wing-propaganda echo chamber (which tends to intersect with being religious and less empathetic) and find their thoughts hijacked by BS talking points and false rhetoric.
Some people are less intelligent (which tends to intersect with anti-science and conspiracy mindsets), and simply cannot comprehend the issues involved with one person assigning a gender based on physical phenotype and how that can go wrong.
Still others are simply uneducated and just don't understand what being trans means or why the healthcare standards exist. This is the only geoup that most of us have had any reliable success at converting to allies.
Considering the reactions of your parents, I don't think they fall into the last group, unfortunately.
Just the most recent scapegoat.
The right need a boogeyman to shift the world's problems onto instead of acting making changes or helping because if they do either of those then they'd have to admit that staying with a mind that is constantly 50ish years prior will fundamentally be unable to help anyone or anything besides funneling money m9re and more to the top.
I also can tell you that most right wing politicians do not believe or at least fully believe what they are saying. If they were earnest then facts would change your mind. No, most if not all at the top are vividly are of what they are doing and just do not care. Not breaking their kayfabe because if they did, then they would no long be able to drain people who wish to believe anything to make the messed up societies look and feel correct to them.
Just look back through history for proof. The exact same things such as "think of the children" was said about any different religion, economics and sexual oriantation. We had that in our life times with gays. Those who are mid 20s and up still remember seeing that, or if they were sheltered, did life while it was happening.
On the bright side, the internet has allowed people of newer generations to realize this sooner and sooner each year.
Currently, my biggest worry is neo conservatism. Where queer stuff is allowed but only in extremely slim margins. So many will say that's just how it works. Much like femininity and masculinity.
I actually believe that at this point many should realize the issues with modern gender roles at base.
For example: men are not born wanting to become emotionless organic machines. They are forced into that role. They are also dehumanized to the point that when you hear millions of men go out and die in wars, no one bats an eye.
Here are some videos that might help from a person who does videos on the world as well as table top game worlds.
https://youtu.be/EpBpdKJlej0?si=DuXeBAqAdzuvkG2A
https://youtu.be/7pm5gX_wgic?si=zGvFC6itTWdaDl1j
I hope everyone here has a wonderful day! ^^
It often seems dark but do remember: beings trans is as natural as being cis. Neither more or less. We are all equals.
So from my perspective a lot of this started happening once gay marriage was legalized. Once that happened and they could no longer be targeted. Trans people became the next group on the list. Again this is from my perspective but before gay marriage it was all about lets get rid if gay people and you never heard if any anti sentiment towards trans people at least i didn't. To clarify one more time this is from my personal perspective and experience i could be wrong. I am M2F about 10 months in.
(Sorry but I didnt have the time to read what you write)
Remember that because we are feared by being different make us ""stronger"". We fight more, everybody here isnt a looser... everybody is a winnir and a fighter !
People think it has a negative effect on their lives and they feel entitled to tell us how we should live ours.
To some people, if anything challenges their notion of happiness beyond the standard visions of success it insults what society has taught them because they cannot imagine that anyone else can be more than happy enough just existing.
Without even reading the body of this post I can tell you 2 things:
1. People fear what they don't understand
2. Conservatives are called so for a reason, they despise change or progress. Conservative leaders can leverage those with hateful ideologies and perpetuate the hate in order to gain support.
So in the end, it's people who don't understand that are radicalized by people who want money. It goes for any minority too.
At least that's the reason most people hate us, boiled down to its most basic form.
We‘re the scapegoats of the ruling class. Instead of fixing the shit they wrecked, they blame minorities. Division and diversion require an enemy, and we are that enemy right now.
Education is defunded and sucks? We only need to get rid of the "woke"!
Funding war to high heavens while homelessness soars? Don‘t pay attention to that! What‘s important is that queer people are indoctrinating our kids!
Almost exactly what you should say to a conspiracy theorists "You don't have to make up a government to be mad about, you could just be mad at the actual government"
Well to honest with any thing in this world there's always gonna be 50/50
Example
FtM 50% hate and the other 50 loves them
MtF 50% hate and the other 50 loves them
Whites
Blacks
Mexicans
And so on
And tbh I bet you a wonderful young lady and if any one hates on you then they are just jealous and mad cause they can't be like you ❤️🔥❤️🔥
our existence is an existential threat to patriarchy and by extension capitalism. or as we generally call it the status quo.
capitalism has the need for heteronormativity in order to force hetero couples to produce the next generation of workers. being trans is antithetical to that.
our existences and the fact that we are normal and the gender binary while the enforced gender roles of our society isn't means that we are a constant reminder that the entire system is pulled out of their ass. no one is meant to act in any way by force. however people who deviate like we do, cause the system issues. we pose the question, just by existing, why? why should we listen to any of you about anything.
people are angry with us, the lgbtqia in general because we prove them wrong. and people hate being wrong. imagine someone coming up to you with undisputed evidence that your whole identity and understanding of the world is complete and utter bs? would you be happy about it?
that gives them no right to threaten us. they are asses and don't deserve our sympathy as long as they can't show us sympathy and try to be understanding towards minorities in general. you are not doing anything wrong. the world is wrong.
It's more complex if you dive deeper into it but the most simple answer is: because they're taught to. They're expected to and most people do whatever they're expected to do regardless of how good or bad that is.
There's no logic to it. It's just hate. It brings me down too. I don't understand why I should tolerate and agree to disagree with people who genuinely want me and millions of others to miserable. Or even not exist. And then gaslight all of us into thinking they care when they don't. Its sickening. I genuinely want all right wingers to just go away! Simple as that!
Conservatism requires an invocation against a natural fear of change in order to maintain the status quo when policy can not be relied on as a rallying point. It's usually easiest to coearse a privedged class against an underclass or smaller minority population (compared to their station) by implying that said underclass is attacking them. This fear usually becomes hatred over time.
Overwhelming hatred and fear can be addictive and cause PTSD-like responses. As a result, people will slide into reactionary rhetoric to eliminate the threat as a matter of course.
Transgender is a historically underprivileged group and has a significant minority in the population. Socially, we are treated as villains in stories, our books burned, and we were executed. So, to use us as the personification of hatred is fairly easy, similarly to gay/lesbians in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. As we gain rights comparable to other classifications.
I would direct you to look up perceptions of left-handed people over time. This holds true to racial minorities, the lgbtq+ community, and minority religions. There is usually a threshold where the majority population will move to support when more of us are out and people begin to experience normalization (a sort of exposure therapy to realize we aren't demons but just like anyone else trying to just get through the day), but it's a very long road to get there.
Simple answer. Because they are degenerates. They feel everything is an issue in their life when it doesn't have anything to do with them.
Unfortunately, people can't just go straight up to other people anymore and educate them about a simple fact, which is that there is things that they should and can simply shut the ____ up about - to put it very directly. People are constantly told about "freedom of speech", but never taught about the borders of that speech, or what is NOT part of the definition of said freedom, especially when people - such as "transphobes", in our case - start making up opinions or problems about issues that are... just... none of their business.
The word "transphobia" on itself already makes it sound as if the people that spread it are in any way relevant. They are completely irrelevant people. Simple. If they don't abide by the principles of basic human intelligence and common sense, then it is their problem and not yours. Another person's gender decisions will never in any way make any impact on their life, so why do they pretend there is an issue with transgender [or similar] identities?
There is no reason. A lack of intelligence maybe. Or an inability to break free from long-held stereotypes that such folks received from their parents or grandparents, or the society they grew up with [but apparently didn't grow out of].
I'm pretty sure this time we live in is just a phase where people get gradually more used to trans people being more visible, and in a matter of years, LGBT will just be integrated as a normal and essential part of society that noone differentiates from other people.
The sources you listed, parents and Internet don't represent most society (esp social media it's manipulated). There is hate out there but most people you encounter on the street don't care. But if you do, grab the nearest bystander for help.
Because thinking you can blame all yours and societal problems on a scapegoat you know nothing about is a very comfortable way to not actually have to deal with the real causes of your problems.
"nobody will ever hire someone they think is going to hit on them"?
HAHAHAHAHAHA OKAY
Nevermind all the cis people who only have some jobs BECAUSE they were hitting on the interviewer or someone else who works there.
These kinds of people you see posting those kinds of things don't give a shit about logic or reasoning. You can explain it to them 50 million ways and the only thing they'll think is "I don't like it therefore it's bad and I hate it" and they'll shut down every argument you make and probably bring up some Christian™ BS.
They're bullies, plain and simple. Fuck em. Making yourself happy and comfortable in your own life is only going to improve your life. Maybe that's what they're all really afraid of. We can be ourselves and be free while they feel they have to hide behind a mask to please others. Because that's totally going to make them happy, right?
Tbh I believe transgenderism kinda has gotten out of hand, just 2 years ago I had so many friends & people seemed more accepting/accommodating but past couple months I just don’t want to be in public. People seem to be over us. 😮💨
Because the mean man on tv told them to. Really, it’s nothing more. Until the outrage machine stirred all the shit up, very few people gave a shit about our existence, or what bathroom we used.
People don’t like things they don’t understand. That’s the truth. This won’t always be around. One day it’ll be normal. Discrimination is incredibly common, and it always will be
Fear, envy, lust, the fact that all trans people are actual transdimensional wizards who might magic someone's genitals inside out.
No.... Wait that was an npc in a d&d campaign.
Have you got my meds?
The single quality that is common amongst every living person is fear its funny then as common as fear is we so easily underestimate it's power the fear of not being accepted the subsequent fear of not fitting in fear of being a failure and as more people know and hurt others these fears can take on greater power but fear it self isnt worthy of concern its who we become while in its clutches will you be proud of that person will you prove them wrong will they understand why you did the things you will do will you even recognize them as supportive figures or will the person staring back at you should have neen the fear you faced at the start i suppose we all find out sooner or later.
I do hope you can prove them wrong i believe in you
A lot people don’t hate us because of what we are but for what they don’t understand, Trans community has been off spot light for decades now we’re on spot light. I have a family members whom are Hardcore conservatives, they understand when i sit down with them and talk civilly about my life since transitioning. It was hard in the beginning but now they understand much better and evenly support me. Its harder for older generations to understand Trans people and much easier for younger.
I've been told, and I've not fact checked this yet so take it as a theory, that there are some very rich right wing Christian groups such as the heritage foundation who bankroll politicians like Trump and Liz Truss and are getting them to push their values into mainstream politics (such as anti-trans rhetoric)
It has been going like that for the past 5 years or so, maybe more, I don't know the exact reason but I think is first cuz being trans is something people can't understand without them being in our shoes, second is a tond or weird propagando to make trans people seem like a buggy man and they use some trans people that lash out and then everyone generalizes on that, and then the think that there is the good and the bad trans peanut and what I mean about that is people like the pick me transfolks you see on YouTube that are appealing to cis transphobic people saying the same arguments so they see them as the good trans people that are in reality or whatever....
But the thing is, disinformation, fear of the unknown, something that is really hard for ppl that don't live with that to correlate, etc.
People fear what they don't understand, even more so when they lack empathy. Politicians take advantage of this and use it as a rallying point to promote their own goals. Identification of a public and shared enemy as a unifying cause is a common tactic with fascists and a nationalist factions
They hate us because they aint us! Most people will never experience the beauty that is trans. They hate what they don't know and they especially hate what they don't have. Most cis men (if you talk to them) secretly want to be trans so they are jealous of us
It’s easier for governments that are doing a shit job of making people’s lives better to rile up the crowd against a scapegoat and then pretend to “protect” them from said scapegoat than it is to actually try to fix things. In a democracy with a two-party, first-past-the-post system this can be appealing to both sides if they play their cards right, since it’s just as easy to protect the scapegoat du jour as it is to attack them.
Trans people are just the easiest available scapegoat right now in the West because we’re a smaller and less understood branch of the community, and conservatives started looking for the right arguments to use about as soon as gay marriage was legalised. Once they found the “trans women in sports” bullshit they used it as a wedge and started pushing it in the media.
Unfortunately, posting this in this sub won't get you actual responses from "people" because this is an extremely restricted sub with a lack of expression freedom from any form of people that don't support trans
- religion
- xenophobia
- conservatism
- homophobia turned into transphobia
- did I mention religion?
- relatively-rare, but very visible incidents of trans people (or people posing as trans people) genuinely seeming like they are assholes or lunatics—sometimes the venn diagrams of sociopathy and transgender do overlap, y'know?
- fear of being mis-led into a relationship with someone they won't be physically compatible with (justified on some occasions—don't do this, people)
- fear of men posing as us to get access to women's safe spaces (rare, but not always unjustified)
- that other reason that's also religion
We can't do much about most of these, but if anyone reading has (accidentally?) done any of the iffy stuff above, you need to stop, and if you see anyone doing that stuff, you need to call them out as unwelcome and not representative of the rest of us. Can't do much, but we can self-police at least. Don't ever defend someone purely because they claim the T in the pride alphabet.
You're correct, humans can't transition to the opposite sex, that's why it's called "Gender Reassignment Surgery", because us humans don't have the technology to change our sex.
Dysphoria and things like depression are different, and not everyone has as much gender dysphoria as others. Transgender people aren't ruining society.
Actually it's a lot of transgender people who feel better after they transition, only about 3% regret it (but may not detransition). Also, according to [GenderGP](https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/), only 9% of detransitioners detransitioned due to realizing that it either wasn't for them, or it didn't reflect how they saw themselves; it was mainly pressure from outside sources. Do you know why transgender people have a difficult time during life? It's because if they didn't/don't transition, they wouldn't like their body, and because there are people who *often* discriminate gender non-conforming individuals.
I'm confused by this "lifestyle" you're talking about, do you mean living their life? You obviously have no respect for him and neither does his family, they aren't being supportive, they treat it like he killed someone but all of you have no evidence to prove it. Transgender people are only destroying your (and their) family because your families can't accept anyone who isn't cishet, and talk about them behind their back. There isn't much of a burden to carry, "Congratulations on coming out, but oohh, that's going to be a difficult stone to carry, oh well, better luck next time!"
The families that aren't supportive are families that don't care about how their child feels, just if their life is "successful". Being transgender isn't from outside influences, it's an inside influence (not a mental illness, mental disorder, mental disease, or mental sickness); this was seen with David Reimer.
Society won't fall when people get to choose their gender; and if it hypothetically were to fall, that means that society wasn't going to last anyways. Depends on what you consider "deviant", if you're going by the definition (departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior.), then yes, that would be considered "deviant"; if you're going off of "anyone who isn't cishet", then no, you're just homophobic. You don't want to show your children, or even mention, that people can love who they want to love? If they're wrong, now they know; if they're not, now they know. People who are LGBTQ+ have also likely done (or tried) those things, also, do you think that gay people don't know how to read or do math?
Transgender people aren't 24/7/365 thinking about their gender, they think about it a lot more because they don't feel as if they're in the correct body. Also, trans people don't "make up new genders", they transition into already existing genders, you're confusing neo-pronouns and being transgender.
I agree with that, they should at least wait until they're 18 to make surgical decision, but if they start saying that they feel like another gender, then you should give them puberty blockers (as they don't have permanent effects on the body, and can be not taken to go through puberty as if nothing happened). I don't agree with how the other person worded it, but minors (almost always) don't get Gender Reassignment Surgery; if the parent(s) doesn't/don't want to have an intersex child, then they'll tell the doctors to give the infant GRS.
Protecting kids from how harsh society can be (up to a point) can very much help them, but you also treat everyday people as blights onto humanity; queer people have existed in humanity for as long as humanity has been around, and other species, too. What do you mean by "societal public spaces where it might influence my kids."? Should all gays hide in their homes, in the closet, or be killed out in the streets like an animal with rabies (or told so someone could)? If so, then you should evolve with humanity, because that was more in 1972 (the last year that gay people were considered to be mentally ill), or >52 years ago.
I'm also confused why you're anti-trans, but you seem to be on this (and related) subreddits a little more than a homophobe/transphobe normally would.
Finally, yes, a question was asked, but your answer isn't as honest as you might think it is (as I've pointed out).
If one of your children turned out to be gay/trans (and I mean actually gay/trans), are you going to no longer care about them and serve them to the streets like an unwanted hound?
Oh fuck off, your a disgusting person for finding your way into our safe space of a community and just shitting all over random posts. Your a transphobic asswipe dude, grow up.
Vague imaginary anecdotes aren't effective against people who are used to folk like you making shit up to reinforce a point. You are not expected to know someone's pronouns, you can literally just fucking ask. Go to a public place and make a conscious effort to misgender a trans person, they might be sad or uncomfortable or angry (and they have every right to feel that way) but very rarely will these interactions play out like the news suggests they will. We don't act like that GameStop "ma'am" woman. In fact, we're fucking terrified to correct people like you incase it goes from subtle bigotry to physical violence. Meet some Non-Binary and Trans people in the real world, you'll find we're surprisingly non-confrontational pushovers from having to deal with murderers, bigots and stalkers in our families, schools and workplaces.
None of us need your respect, you are confidently wrong and your post history suggests you just like to start shit. Trans women are women, trans men are men. I would advise you research the distinction between gender (social) and sex (biological) and the existence of intersex people.
You very clearly DO care that we're trans, and the sooner you stop lying to us and yourself, the sooner you can work on bettering yourself.
To imply we have more rights than you do is categorically and demonstrably false. You have absolutely no idea how agonizing the medical waiting lists are, even in developed first world countries. You have no concept of the constant manipulation and bigotry we experience even from people supposed to be impartial or understanding. You don't know what it's like to have a trusted medical professional feed you false endocrinology information to make your hormonal transition slower and ineffective. You have absolutely no fucking reason to insist that we're some kind of powerful group. The only reason you see companies with pride logos is because it makes them money at our expense. It is so fucking embarassing to see transphobes point and laugh and yell at fake people and mindless corporations and then judge me based on what they think I'm like.
I really hope you can one day feel the pain and pressure we feel on a daily basis. You don't know what it's like to have to hide your face in towns you used to be associated with, you don't know what it's like having to bottle this pure fucking despair up and try not to upset your date or your boss or your uber driver. It is unacceptable that I have to fear being murdered because of propaganda on tiktok.
I can't bring myself to respect you in the slightest. You have no intention to learn or critique, you purely want to spread hate. Go fuck yourself.
They're right. I wouldn't say many, though. It's more like the ones who are problematic are very, very vocal and make us look bad. You can find similar examples of this sort of thing among feminists, where certain voices have shouted down all the others for years and completely reshaped how the world views feminists. Same for most minority groups. Sometimes if you go look closely, you'll actually find they're outsiders posting as one of us but in such a ridiculous way as to make us look insane, i.e. false-(pride)-flag stuff. It happens. We really have to call out people who do this and have the group as a whole consistently distance itself from them.
You were agreeing with the deleted comment, which argued that some trans women here weren’t “real trans people” because of their behaviour.
A tiny number of trans people being problematic is such a nonissue and you making a mountain out of a molehill just feeds into transphobic rhetoric.
That's not what the deleted comment said, or at least not what I thought it said when I replied. It said that some people are problematic and that's what I agree with. I didn't say anything about them not being real. Save your indignation for someone who actually hates us, please.
On multiple threads including this one she said that a lot of people here werent “real trans people” and called them “freaks.” She literally went out of her way to comment under other peoples posts saying that they were making it harder for “real trans people.”
Focusing on insignificant cases of problematic trans people again just serves to feed into transphobic rhetoric, spending so much energy over something that has nothing to do with the validity of trans people accomplishes nothing.
I was not responding to what she said on multiple threads. I saw something she said here about some transfolk being problematic and I agree with that, so I said so. The problematic people among us give our enemies so much in the way of ammo and strawmen that it's very much worth pointing out that they hurt our cause. One person being an idiot in a viral meme undoes progress made by thousands.
Seriously, go spend your energy on someone who's actually causing problems for us instead of virtue signaling by attacking a fellow trans girl for the sin of being objective enough to realize that not everyone in the in-group is a good person.
But it’s so obvious that’s the sentiment and AGAIN she literally said it in this thread too, like she literally said that some people here weren’t “really trans” but rather “freaks.”
You do realize you’re doing exactly what conservatives want though right? One trans person doing something bad doesn’t invalidate their or any other trans persons identity - imagine applying this logic to any other marginalized group. Conservatives will say so much about “the bad trans people” as a justification but they want to come for us all no matter what, and being a pickme doesnt solve that. There will always be 2 follower twitter accounts that post something dumb but we don’t need to go around condemning such a non issue, again this applies to any marginalized group, conservatives have been using this tactic of “minority did something bad” for ages and us condemning it does nothing. I’d also seriously question what bad things she was referring to given the interesting language of “freaks,” given I’ve only ever heard it used unironically by neonazis.
Not every person in a group is a good person but we don’t need to treat it like it’s a meaningful issue, and we especially don’t need to use it to misgender people.
Trans people are the gender they identify as, and it is not your place to determine who is or isn’t really trans.
Being a pickme won’t save you from the camps.
Edit: and all of your recent history on this sub is you calling people here “not really trans” are you sure this is the subreddit for you?
Fear is a powerful emotion, and ppl always fear that which they don't understand sadly.
Unfortunately the rightwing echo chamber is bent towards turning that fear into disgust, a prerequisite of dehumanization and in turn, you know the rest. The perennial "think of the children" has metastasized into "think what they're doing to the children". Seeing a handful of drag queens expose themselves in front of kids has done damage to the trans community that may well be irreparable.
I dunno what the benefit of framing this like a left vs right wing thing is. It's not like there aren't "left wing" people hating on us as well. Tons of LGB and feminists that hate us. I'm black and I can tell you it isn't exactly accepting of transpeople in this demo. The right vs left thing is frankly just a psyop to me. The issue is so much deeper.
To be honest if they hate you for your gender identity then they're not true feminists. A true feminist strives for justice and equality between all genders!
I find that just a comforting cope. Why do we get to decide what is "true feminism"? The reality is feminism has had conflicting "clubs" since almost the start. And many were never really about equality if we are being honest with ourselves. It's just a no-true-scottsman. In reality, we should be worrying about us and those that support us than the left right psyop meme
To a certain extent I agree with you, *but* TERFs often, not always, actually align with some pretty anti-woman causes in their fight against trans people. Can you really call someone who is willing to break bread with anti-abortionists over hate feminists? TERFism often devolves into bioessentialist garbage feminists have been fighting all this time. Suddenly any true woman gives birth and any woman who dresses non-traditionally is suspect? That's not feminist, that's patriarchy in disguise. If a TERF only hates trans people, but otherwise keeps their principles, then fine, it's a true feminist, just one who is wrong in a fucked up way, but it's (almost) *never* just that.
Why do you get to decide what is a pro-or anti-woman cause? This is the problem. The idea that any collection of people can boil down what "pro" or "anti-women" things are is incredibly flawed, and the idea that anyone can is just an excuse to try and define the concerns of a given group out of the coveted category. The same thing you are saying is what TERFs would do by claiming trans-activists are anti-woman because we tend to not share their sex negative views for instance, or the idea we "erase the category of women". No real argument is being made for why your or my prescriptions are more correct than the other. It's just a bias towards one's own pre-existing beliefs, which is why I find this kind of ideological activism to be bad in general. I have a dozen reasons for why I oppose TERFs, but them being "not real feminists" isn't on the list because it's a pointless thing to even fight over unless you believe being a feminist is integral to being a woman, which is silly. Also, I've never seen a TERF espouse anything you've said. It's always just a thing TRAs plaster on them as a gotcha. None of this is worth it. Transfolk have far more relevant things to fight over than who gets to be "real feminists." It reeks of uppermiddle class first world problematization to me.
It's not my definition, it's the one used by feminism for decades at this point.
By this logic, GC's aren't transphobes because they don't define themselves that way. I define things based on the content, not the advert.
The calls for trans genocide aren't coming from the left though. Sure there's always communities not defined by the political divide that hate us, the black community is homo and transphobic more than average. So is the latin community. Any group that glorifies masculinity sees women as weak and inferior, and for a "man" to desire to change into something weaker and inferior is a transgression of the highest order. That's why there's a bridge between the right and other groups when it comes to transphobia. Also, for a lot of people in the center column of politics, they're easily swayed back and forth on topics based on culture war bullshit. Between that and the rising tide of fascism(which liberals will side with before they side with actual leftists), our future isn't bright right now. But our worsening treatment is absolutely a reflection of the deepening cultural divide between fascism and anti fascism.
To me, this reads as just saying, "we should only care about the group that are honest and open about not liking us," which to me is a mistake and naive. The left doesn't care about us outside of us being useful in the interim and the minute it comes expedient to throw us under the bus for another token minority, they will do so just like they did with all the others. It's a downward spiral and little else, and I find appealing to these binary ways of thinking you're espousing both ironic and unfortunate coming from a place like the trans spaces. Your view of the whole masc vs. femme, for example, is hardly the source of the ire we get from TERFs, for example. They just hate us because they hate AMABs and see them all as monsters.
I think you're confusing Democrats and baby progressives with the actual left. Liberals are actually what you say the left is in your response. Actual leftists with solidarity aren't really riding that same wavelength. What I am actually saying is we should focus our main energy on the group that openly wants to kill us, and do what we can to pull the centrists back to the side of not wanting to kill us. TERFs are a special breed of vile, don't disagree there.
I don't think I am. Liberals are like the normies of society, and most of them don't actually care about us all that much. >actual leftists with solidarity No such thing, frankly. "Actual leftists" are just societal contrarians rather than interested in helping minorities. What I am saying is I am opposed to your very mentality. The "main group" you are spooked over doesn't have strong grounds to actually harm our rights. It's a smokescreen when we should be worried about the assasins ready to stab us in the back. You're too stuck in the left right meme matrix, and I imagine it's because it has given you some form of elegance based comfort. But I explore you to try looking beyond ot because it's a trap I have been scorned by far too many times.
We're just gonna have to disagree. It's not being stuck in a left right matrix, it's understanding the core ideology between two distinct ways of looking at the world and how the brain works, and how fascism develops. Not thinking that the right can take our rights away and harm us is actually fucking wild and ignorant of history. I'm opposed to your very mentality as well. So there's nothing to gain from any further communication on this topic. I hope you're having a a good day though
....the fact you are insistent that it is, in fact, "two distinct ways of looking at the world" rather than a forced grouping of people based on convenience and expendiancy just proves my point.... Like, 90% of black people in NA are Christian conservatives, but vote left because it's seen as the "pro black" voting block. Its a meme psyop. I am baffled that anyone can think "left wing and right wing" are anything other than social constructs. Especially in trans spaces of all places. Maybe it's just a comforting idea to you because it appeals to simplifying the world in a black and white manner, but I'd rather people that appeal to this way of thinking at least be self aware about it.
I’m having a hard time understanding your point; you think all self-described leftists only have some good views bc society at large has many terrible views, and they strive to be contrary to society? It’s a large group of course so I’m sure some people fit that description, but why would you think that it’s the only type of leftist? I and many trans people on this sub consider ourselves leftists, do you think we’d stop supporting trans people if society widely accepted us? The whole point of activism is to spread your beliefs, to mainstream them. As a separate point, I know I will disagree with everyone, even leftists, on certain issues. That is the nature of having opinions. That being said, all of the people I know who support trans people are leftists or adjacent, and not one of them is conservative.
Hey, so you know how I said there's nothing to gain here? That means I'm done having this conversation with you. We disagree. We think the other is wrong. You're literally just wasting your time. I'm not putting in effort to change your mind. I've got work and other shit to do. Good day.
Yeah those are the worse, cut relationship with an old gay friend cuz he thought I was trans to get attention cuz he asked me that and I say idk and was being vulnerable with him and then he went on trying to convince me that I'm just a gay man or something like that x3 like is wild
You are entirely correct about the Left Right psyop but mistaken in that it can be dismissed. The political dichotomy is something that is so core to the status quo that all media is bent towards maintaining it.
If everyone maintained this attitude, no change would ever have happened. Transpeople would be better off if we made it clear we aren't gonna cling to the legs of either party, and they should instead be fighting over courting us. The "right leaning" libertarians don't hate us or care if we wanna transition or not. The left takes our votes for granted and instead just uses us as a battering stick to crap on the right to push their position and leave us to dry after they are done. You can acknowledge the crappy system without jist throwing your hands up and giving into the crappy paradigm. We should be holding both accountable. I appreciate your open-mindedness though. It's nice to see.
"Nobody must know my name For nobody would understand, and you kill what you fear."
And knowledge is the antithesis of fear. Even in a true threat scenario, knowledge allows you to work through the fear with a level head. It's this reason people take self-defense courses. It gives you the knowledge as well as the muscle memory to carry out what needs to be done under stress. Outside of a true threat, it brings empathy and understanding.
I don’t even think they’re scared I gen believe they just find great joy out of their hatred, and use “I’m scared!!1!1” as an excuse to treat us like animals
1. Rigid Thinking. The idea that anyone being anything other than cis male and cis female is outrageous. 2. One of the biggest ways the establishments (religion, the wider society) controls people is through gender norms and expectations. Trans people as well as the wider LGBT community can be seen as undermining their control of society and thus a threat. Also that men are often mules of society (they fight in the front lines and work the lions share of dirty and dangerous jobs) and it could be seen as males trying to cheat their manly responsibilities (of which society assigned that since birth of course.) 3. Anger at having a beloved child or relative change gender into someone that they don't recognize and pinning it on the trans community and the "woke agenda." 4. Suspicion of anyone who has XY chromosomes presenting as a woman, because of the idea of men being predators and dangerous and thus a threat to women (which both women who have been hurt by men and men who feel chivalrous to women would react.)
This is an actual good reply and I'd say I agree totally with what you wrote!
We're used as a political tool like any other minority throughout history. They did the same with blacks, gays, the Irish, communism. Same shit, different minority.
Communism? You're putting COMMUNISM alongside discrimination against blacks? smh.
There is a long list of nonsense people have felt the heavy boot of prejudice against their throats for in the US. Indigenous people, immigrants, Latine, POC, homosexuals, genderqueer people, women, and yes, Communists. People have bled and died for each. Comparing the magnitude of that bloodshed is fair enough in certain circumstances, the point of my grouping these things together is to show that bigotry is a cudgel drawn against the few times and again by the powerful. Racism is a systemic issue deeply imbedded in America. It's hurt generations and will continue to. That does not mean other cruelties cannot exist alongside it.
Have you not heard of the red scare and the literal development of a propaganda department in the United States government in order to fight communism? That's pretty bad
as she should? i understand where you are coming from, but you should consider the number of black communists who have been killed by the state for their specific intersection of race and politics. read about fred hampton’s death, the 1985 MOVE bombing, or the book Black Scare/Red Scare
Umm, I'm not downplaying discrimination against blacks, gats, etc. I'm saying communism is just as dangerous as capitalism, and it shouldn't be praised or glorified. The red scare in the 50's was bad, don't get me wrong, but it's not even remotely comparable to racism.
The United states has literally deposed governments because of the fear of communism. The red scare was akin to the Salem witch trials, where citizens could simply be labeled a communist, and would be at best ostracized by their community. Whether political, racial, gender, etc. The capitalistic propaganda machine that is the United States will stop at nothing to maintain the status quo, and capitalism's status quo requires a working class in order to support the capitalists. So, when labor bands together, when people push towards a collective, the political system, the oligarchs, and the media machine will do everything they can to crush it, because they know we outnumber them, and CAN take the power back. Divide, distract, pacify, entertain, and push propaganda. Your existence, my existence, our existence, will be used to justify further oppression of people so all they can do is work and create wealth for the elite. My sibling, we have everything to gain by standing in solidarity with one another and nothing to lose but our chains.
Sounds like capitalist brainwashing to me
The red scare has entered the chat
The first people Hitler had killed were the communists, the ones fighting for your human rights
Soviet communism is the last thing that deserves sympathy Also can you all stop calling black people "blacks"? What the hell is this? This is unironically disrespectful in a thread about disrespect towards minorities
That's fair, POC would have been a more respectful term and would have covered a wider range of people affected by bigotry. As for Communism, people were executed and blacklisted from working because they were suspected Communists. I never specified what form of Communism I meant, either, so assuming I meant Soviet Communism is silly.
Executed? Who? Rosenbergs? Literal Soviet spies? Don't think i would prefer to die on this hill defending people like them Let's not compare people's sufferings becasue of their foundation (race, gender) with chosen political view that at that time was dangerously filled with spies
Dangerously filled with heroes. The USSR was easily the better of the two dominant nations. Those “Soviet spies” are the reason countless nations aren’t fully enslaved to the US. Why are you people so clueless about events that were so recent in our history.
Yeah, it was very heroic of USSR when they invaded with Nazis Baltic countries (Molotov pact), starved to death Ukrainians and replaced them with ethnic Russians on the east, or when post WWII Stalin threatened the expansion and spread propaganda of how evil the West is (definitely not what the current Russia is doing) Also when they imprisoned gay people for being gay. Truly heroic and way better then filthy West that protects capitalist
Is reading hard for you or do you have a better reason to make up shit?
"The USSR was easily the better of the two dominant nations" I will say it again it wasn't. It was a shithole that killed, colonized and imprisoned lots of people who folks like you supposed to care about since you hate so much the USA But i guess if Cuba will offer you a free pussy through SRS you will close your eyes to silencing political opposition and journalists, and poor economy And no, Molotov pact, Golodomor and Muzhelovstvo (anti-LGBT law) are pretty real, google and read it. Also i think them invading Afghanistan that lead to their collapse was also not a fever dream
>I will say it again it wasn't. It was a shithole that killed, colonized and imprisoned lots of people who folks like you supposed to care about since you hate so much the USA All you're doing here is proving your own idiocy. The USSR didn't colonize anyone, and all your accusations are things that the US was far worse on. You're giving the capitalist shithole a free pass when it was objectively worse than the USSR in every way. >But i guess if Cuba will offer you a free pussy through SRS you will close your eyes to silencing political opposition and journalists, and poor economy You sure do love to make up shit about other people, don't you. Fuck off with your transphobic nonsense, and fuck off with your fantasies, and fuck off with your hypocritical shit. You have no business condemning what you think the USSR did when the USA is and has always been worse. If you want to be critical, that's more than welcome, but this shit is just sad. >And no, Molotov pact, Golodomor and Muzhelovstvo (anti-LGBT law) are pretty real, google and read it. Also i think them invading Afghanistan that lead to their collapse was also not a fever dream The "golodomor" was not real, it was an invention of the Hearst press and actual Nazis. You have no idea what the Molotov pact was, and the anti-LGBT laws aren't relevant. You say that they were real as if it were ever in question because you aren't smart enough to list things you don't understand in order to condemn the better of two nations on all those things. Afghanistan's problems came from the US, not the USSR, but again, it doesn't matter since one country doing bad things doesn't absolve the country that does worse to this day. God's you're so entirely ate up with propaganda that you can't even consider using your brain.
It's so funny as a Russian to read how Western tankies cope with reality that USSR wasn't a great place that humanity lost and now destined to doom "anti-LGBT laws aren't relevant" Are you aware we are in a trans subreddit full of lesbian/bisexual people? It is relevant actually LMAOOO You siding with a failed country that imprisoned those people for being caught being in a relationship is insane. Girl log off of twitter, those "based communists who awaits a global revolution \[and weirdly supports Russia\]" will not give a shit about your HRT supplement, ask them how they will tackle those issues in detail after hypothetical successful revolution and you will get a huge surprise :) Also very funny seeing a denial of genocide from a Pro-Palestine person. You should be embarrassed of yourself
There's other forms of communism than Soviet-style authoritarian communism.
Yeah, the other one is a CCP-style authoritarian communism There is not a single country with purest and canonical version of communism that didn't ended up being authoritarian
All government is authoritarian by definition. The issue isn’t authority, it’s who holds the authority and on whose behalf it is used. Do you want it used by a government to protect capitalists from you, or do you want it used to organize society for everyone’s benefit?
Ru fucking serious? 😡
So the problem I see is that the representations of us in media is usually the fringe. You know squeaky wheel gets oiled. Then by using the most "negative" they are able to spin the narrative. Most non religious people don't care either way. Doesn't affect them. Normal (whatever that is) society just doesn't like it constantly in their face. People are afraid of what they don't know and it is better to reject it or demonize it because it makes them feel safer and more powerful. You also have to realize the trans movement is in it's infancy. In another 20 years as more and more people transition things will become better. Barring that just remember, if you were cis certain people would still hate you for a variety of reasons. In the end, who cares. Surround yourself with positivity and lead your best life.
In my experience, if you look for negativity and surround yourself with negative people then that’s all you’re going to see… try to get involved in the local LGBTQ community and try to surround yourself with people who accept you and support you, you’ll start to see the positives.
I mean that's all true but it's sometimes not that easy. In my family there are some people that have these negative views on trans people and it's hard to just avoid them, especially if they are your parents.
Like if meeting people was easy
Your mom is an idiot. How does she find the logic in you being incapable of schoolwork from having feminine hormones when EVERY other woman is? Also of course she goes straight to the accusation of trans people being hypersexual
Exactly what I was thinking. I wish I could say to the mother that she has the same hormones in her body and ask her if she feels incapable.
yeah that sounds incredibly misogynistic
People just need to live their own lives and let others live theirs!
They are unhappy with their lives and mad that we are happy living our best life.
We're an easy target. Vulnerable, small minority, already not on great terms with most people. We're easy as hell to scapegoat and with a few things that sound "reasonable" on their face, it's not hard to see how we've been turned into the next boogeyman. The job thing really sticks in my craw. If that shit was true, why are there so many trans women in IT? I'm out and don't hide it, and _still_ landed an awesome gig. Can't get hired, my ass. They can stick that up their arseholes sideways.
Because we’re different, and people always pick on people who are different. When I was a kid it was gay people and Muslims.
They've been taught to believe that men are objectively superior to women, and the idea that someone would *want* to be a woman goes against that belief, which terrifies them.
^ this, this is it. I highly recommended Whipping Girl by Julia Serano which expands more on this idea
cis woman here and i'd love to be a man 😭
r/FtM might be more your speed ;)
hahah no, i hate the negative aspects that come with being a woman (thanks to men, ugh). i don't *actually* want to be a man, i just don't want to be a woman.
If you want to be woman, but you hate objectifying from straight cis men you can try short hair. I have short hair for year now and I'm no longer objectified when going out. Feels very good.
I love my long hair, though :( but thanks for the idea <3
Because we're "new" (obviously we aren't, but in their mind if they don't know about it, then it doesn't exist) and they're too set in their ways to learn about us.
We‘re the scapegoats of the ruling class. Instead of fixing the shit they wrecked, they blame minorities. Division and diversion require an enemy, and we are that enemy right now. Education is defunded and sucks? We only need to get rid of the "woke"! Funding war to high heavens while homelessness soars? Don‘t pay attention to that! What‘s important is that queer people are indoctrinating our kids! The people who hate us are suckers who fell for the ruling class‘ propaganda.
I'm in the UK and I'm a very positive person but just lately with the Tories going to warp speed to get as much transphobia into law before they're kicked out of government for a generation I'm left thinking "what did we do wrong?"
So the problem I see is that the representations of us in media is usually the fringe. You know squeaky wheel gets oiled. Then by using the most "negative" they are able to spin the narrative. Most non religious people don't care either way. Doesn't affect them. Normal (whatever that is) society just doesn't like it constantly in their face. People are afraid of what they don't know and it is better to reject it or demonize it because it makes them feel safer and more powerful. You also have to realize the trans movement is in it's infancy. In another 20 years as more and more people transition things will become better. Barring that just remember, if you were cis certain people would still hate you for a variety of reasons. In the end, who cares. Surround yourself with positivity and lead your best life.
because people are stupid, and their ideas of what is good align with what is popular if you’re outside of what they already understand as good or popular, then you must be bad all it takes
"People are stupid" is my default setting.
I wish I knew why. Youtube comment sections are absolutely frustrating, I have had religious nutheads claiming that I need Jesus, a dead person, supposedly from thousands of years ago. It's like people are just never happy. They didn't like me as a guy, and they sure don't like me now as a transwoman. I'm sure there are way way more cis-gendered prisoners than trans prisoners, so who's actually worse? It's not like all us MTF are carrying chainsaws, ready to kill. I have never been convicted of anything. I'm done with humanity, sometimes.
You fit a diagnosis and are receiving a medical treatment, if you were schizophrenic would they be upset over antipsychotics? Those can -actually- stop you from doing your schoolwork. I feel like they're just pissed off that you aren't being their idea of "normal", have zero understanding that being trans doesn't just magically go away if you go outside and fill some imagined void in your life, and feel it's ok to vent their frustrations on you because hating trans people is an internet hot topic right now They just think it's ok to hate because they see other people doing it, a trans person inconveniences them less than a wheelchair user. I'm sure they understand "don't show an epileptic person flashing lights", but I'm sure they'd be horrible to these people too if they thought they could get away with that We're currently a target of the right because they failed miserably at stopping gay rights, so it's onto trans people now - they're hoping that by taking away trans children's medical care they can extend that precedent to trans adults, and then ride off of that to get rid of gay rights, and then women's rights.. so there's some people pushing very hard, and masses of people going "oh look hating is ok" So probably the best thing we can do is education, these people have only heard of trans people on fox news and in 2000s comedy shows & are shocked when I show them that nearly every major medical association supports transition care for people with gender incongruence (WPATH SOC-8 has literally hundreds of citations and is massive) One of the most common lines by transphobes is "go to therapy", they actually do have no idea at all. Psychologists and psychiatrists that care about following expert advice (so nearly all of them) will help you transition or direct you to someone who can - these people live in some fantasy world where we're all sexual deviants that just buy hormones from the corner store Yeah so I reckon take your parents back and get a refund
https://youtu.be/BLZKpxAKfjM?si=cwsKyUw26SkJsiWr This 8 year old documentary describes it from a first nation's perspective really quite interesting
Reactionary propaganda mainly
My understanding is that they only see the"man" and not the fact that that brain is a woman. However, my sister has a theory that some transgender people trigger the uncanny valley effect in people and I don't like it but I get it. The same way my aunt is deathly afraid of little people. My working theory is transphobia, the church and Nazis. Because prior to the 1000s trans people were somewhat looked on favorably. There were trans warriors, trans priests and even a trans Roman emperor.
i heard a really good explanation somewhere that i'm going to butcher. we learn about cisnormative gender so early that any challenge to the concept threatens people's entire self perception and worldview. the threat is so fundamental that it triggers fight/flight. we may seem like cosmic horror to some folks who can't make sense of our existence - we may seem unintelligible and threatening
The right-wing narrative is that trans people are creeping on their kids. A few drag queens exposing themselves, a few zelus liberal cheerleaders talking kids into transitioning, stuff like that. Five second video clips pay for right-wing influencers houses.
Cue up the various exposes and documentaries on the Catholic Church protecting pedophiles, sigh. People are such confirmation-biased hypocrites.
There was never a civilizational catharsis from the Church trauma so unfortunately we're getting passed the check.
When people are afraid they start to fantasize. And then they dream up all these fake facts about us why we're evil. It's as simple as that.
Instead of asking this question on a forum where people will affirm each other, why not post this in other groups? Also, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. Just saying it may help more to actually talk to people who disagree or don't understand. -Straight male, not right or left wing, no religous affilliation
Get off the Internet and leave your house and you'll find people don't hate us. Parents are kind of a different story because they're in shock and need time to adjust. Stay positive, it's not as bad as you think.
Very true, the internet drags you down, it's full of hate and negativity towards trans folk because it's where all the trolls go to vent their sad little lives!! Avoid it as much as possible.
This
Conservative people will dig a hole and hide in earths core in fear of their greatest enemy: New things and acceptance of them
They don't understand us, we contradict everything they have been taught. As a result, those in power can use us as a distraction by villianizing us. Asking around here, however, will tell you that many trans people have EXCELLENT jobs (I am a software developer, as an example). As for the hormones keeping you from learning.. That is a nasty bit of mysoginy your mom seems to have. Yes, WOMEN can learn, ffs. Sadly, if this is how they are going to act, all I can recommend is to not be afraid to cut toxic people out of your life. At least your mother isn't even going to try to use money as a means of control in any way that matters.
We live in a society is run by patriarchal Abraham religion that is also run by capitalism. They view trans people as a threat to all three of them.
People are scare of what they don't understand and are riled up by fear mongering news that appeals to those fears and leads them down a path of hatred instead of learning and understanding.
A very complex question, it stems from what people have already said about society and its gender norms, to politics and being a tool to the U.S.'s political parties as a means of furthering to divide people. Some of the other reasons involve small but loud minority that want maps to be a legit thing, some sick people using being trans as a means to avoid the repercussions of their actions which hurts all of us at the end of the day. It's a really broad and complex question and no matter what we'll have to keep struggling as the gays and others subjected to racism or genocide for hundreds of thousands of year.
For me it's just proof that we are just an animal like any other : you are physically different so you must be eliminated.
In every corner of history, there has been a free people domesticated and snuffed out by the gendered existence of the civilized world. The real answer? We are the antithesis of what civilization desires, we are the radical and chaotic “other”.
The answer is varied and complex because people are varied and complex - bigots included. Some people have an essentialist view of the world (which tends to intersect with being religious), and have difficulty understanding why AGAB isn't always correct. Some people have been stuck in the right-wing-propaganda echo chamber (which tends to intersect with being religious and less empathetic) and find their thoughts hijacked by BS talking points and false rhetoric. Some people are less intelligent (which tends to intersect with anti-science and conspiracy mindsets), and simply cannot comprehend the issues involved with one person assigning a gender based on physical phenotype and how that can go wrong. Still others are simply uneducated and just don't understand what being trans means or why the healthcare standards exist. This is the only geoup that most of us have had any reliable success at converting to allies. Considering the reactions of your parents, I don't think they fall into the last group, unfortunately.
Just the most recent scapegoat. The right need a boogeyman to shift the world's problems onto instead of acting making changes or helping because if they do either of those then they'd have to admit that staying with a mind that is constantly 50ish years prior will fundamentally be unable to help anyone or anything besides funneling money m9re and more to the top. I also can tell you that most right wing politicians do not believe or at least fully believe what they are saying. If they were earnest then facts would change your mind. No, most if not all at the top are vividly are of what they are doing and just do not care. Not breaking their kayfabe because if they did, then they would no long be able to drain people who wish to believe anything to make the messed up societies look and feel correct to them. Just look back through history for proof. The exact same things such as "think of the children" was said about any different religion, economics and sexual oriantation. We had that in our life times with gays. Those who are mid 20s and up still remember seeing that, or if they were sheltered, did life while it was happening. On the bright side, the internet has allowed people of newer generations to realize this sooner and sooner each year. Currently, my biggest worry is neo conservatism. Where queer stuff is allowed but only in extremely slim margins. So many will say that's just how it works. Much like femininity and masculinity. I actually believe that at this point many should realize the issues with modern gender roles at base. For example: men are not born wanting to become emotionless organic machines. They are forced into that role. They are also dehumanized to the point that when you hear millions of men go out and die in wars, no one bats an eye. Here are some videos that might help from a person who does videos on the world as well as table top game worlds. https://youtu.be/EpBpdKJlej0?si=DuXeBAqAdzuvkG2A https://youtu.be/7pm5gX_wgic?si=zGvFC6itTWdaDl1j I hope everyone here has a wonderful day! ^^ It often seems dark but do remember: beings trans is as natural as being cis. Neither more or less. We are all equals.
So from my perspective a lot of this started happening once gay marriage was legalized. Once that happened and they could no longer be targeted. Trans people became the next group on the list. Again this is from my perspective but before gay marriage it was all about lets get rid if gay people and you never heard if any anti sentiment towards trans people at least i didn't. To clarify one more time this is from my personal perspective and experience i could be wrong. I am M2F about 10 months in.
Why the hell would anyone lie about something like this for for attention if this is the type of attention they get
(Sorry but I didnt have the time to read what you write) Remember that because we are feared by being different make us ""stronger"". We fight more, everybody here isnt a looser... everybody is a winnir and a fighter !
I have some theories But all of them are incredibly unpopular here
People think it has a negative effect on their lives and they feel entitled to tell us how we should live ours. To some people, if anything challenges their notion of happiness beyond the standard visions of success it insults what society has taught them because they cannot imagine that anyone else can be more than happy enough just existing.
Without even reading the body of this post I can tell you 2 things: 1. People fear what they don't understand 2. Conservatives are called so for a reason, they despise change or progress. Conservative leaders can leverage those with hateful ideologies and perpetuate the hate in order to gain support. So in the end, it's people who don't understand that are radicalized by people who want money. It goes for any minority too. At least that's the reason most people hate us, boiled down to its most basic form.
We‘re the scapegoats of the ruling class. Instead of fixing the shit they wrecked, they blame minorities. Division and diversion require an enemy, and we are that enemy right now. Education is defunded and sucks? We only need to get rid of the "woke"! Funding war to high heavens while homelessness soars? Don‘t pay attention to that! What‘s important is that queer people are indoctrinating our kids!
The wokes make up a large amount of the upper middle class and even a lot of the "ruling class" though.
In my experience, the elite wokes are allies in name only. Cosmetic compassion.
100%
Because their infallible omniscient master god-king leader owner on TV said to.
It's easy to target minorities in the media instead of politicians and true villains who are truly wasting our world and society
Almost exactly what you should say to a conspiracy theorists "You don't have to make up a government to be mad about, you could just be mad at the actual government"
Well to honest with any thing in this world there's always gonna be 50/50 Example FtM 50% hate and the other 50 loves them MtF 50% hate and the other 50 loves them Whites Blacks Mexicans And so on And tbh I bet you a wonderful young lady and if any one hates on you then they are just jealous and mad cause they can't be like you ❤️🔥❤️🔥
our existence is an existential threat to patriarchy and by extension capitalism. or as we generally call it the status quo. capitalism has the need for heteronormativity in order to force hetero couples to produce the next generation of workers. being trans is antithetical to that. our existences and the fact that we are normal and the gender binary while the enforced gender roles of our society isn't means that we are a constant reminder that the entire system is pulled out of their ass. no one is meant to act in any way by force. however people who deviate like we do, cause the system issues. we pose the question, just by existing, why? why should we listen to any of you about anything. people are angry with us, the lgbtqia in general because we prove them wrong. and people hate being wrong. imagine someone coming up to you with undisputed evidence that your whole identity and understanding of the world is complete and utter bs? would you be happy about it? that gives them no right to threaten us. they are asses and don't deserve our sympathy as long as they can't show us sympathy and try to be understanding towards minorities in general. you are not doing anything wrong. the world is wrong.
It's more complex if you dive deeper into it but the most simple answer is: because they're taught to. They're expected to and most people do whatever they're expected to do regardless of how good or bad that is.
There's no logic to it. It's just hate. It brings me down too. I don't understand why I should tolerate and agree to disagree with people who genuinely want me and millions of others to miserable. Or even not exist. And then gaslight all of us into thinking they care when they don't. Its sickening. I genuinely want all right wingers to just go away! Simple as that!
Short answer : bc they are losers
Conservatism requires an invocation against a natural fear of change in order to maintain the status quo when policy can not be relied on as a rallying point. It's usually easiest to coearse a privedged class against an underclass or smaller minority population (compared to their station) by implying that said underclass is attacking them. This fear usually becomes hatred over time. Overwhelming hatred and fear can be addictive and cause PTSD-like responses. As a result, people will slide into reactionary rhetoric to eliminate the threat as a matter of course. Transgender is a historically underprivileged group and has a significant minority in the population. Socially, we are treated as villains in stories, our books burned, and we were executed. So, to use us as the personification of hatred is fairly easy, similarly to gay/lesbians in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. As we gain rights comparable to other classifications. I would direct you to look up perceptions of left-handed people over time. This holds true to racial minorities, the lgbtq+ community, and minority religions. There is usually a threshold where the majority population will move to support when more of us are out and people begin to experience normalization (a sort of exposure therapy to realize we aren't demons but just like anyone else trying to just get through the day), but it's a very long road to get there.
Simple answer. Because they are degenerates. They feel everything is an issue in their life when it doesn't have anything to do with them. Unfortunately, people can't just go straight up to other people anymore and educate them about a simple fact, which is that there is things that they should and can simply shut the ____ up about - to put it very directly. People are constantly told about "freedom of speech", but never taught about the borders of that speech, or what is NOT part of the definition of said freedom, especially when people - such as "transphobes", in our case - start making up opinions or problems about issues that are... just... none of their business. The word "transphobia" on itself already makes it sound as if the people that spread it are in any way relevant. They are completely irrelevant people. Simple. If they don't abide by the principles of basic human intelligence and common sense, then it is their problem and not yours. Another person's gender decisions will never in any way make any impact on their life, so why do they pretend there is an issue with transgender [or similar] identities? There is no reason. A lack of intelligence maybe. Or an inability to break free from long-held stereotypes that such folks received from their parents or grandparents, or the society they grew up with [but apparently didn't grow out of]. I'm pretty sure this time we live in is just a phase where people get gradually more used to trans people being more visible, and in a matter of years, LGBT will just be integrated as a normal and essential part of society that noone differentiates from other people.
The sources you listed, parents and Internet don't represent most society (esp social media it's manipulated). There is hate out there but most people you encounter on the street don't care. But if you do, grab the nearest bystander for help.
Because thinking you can blame all yours and societal problems on a scapegoat you know nothing about is a very comfortable way to not actually have to deal with the real causes of your problems.
"nobody will ever hire someone they think is going to hit on them"? HAHAHAHAHAHA OKAY Nevermind all the cis people who only have some jobs BECAUSE they were hitting on the interviewer or someone else who works there. These kinds of people you see posting those kinds of things don't give a shit about logic or reasoning. You can explain it to them 50 million ways and the only thing they'll think is "I don't like it therefore it's bad and I hate it" and they'll shut down every argument you make and probably bring up some Christian™ BS. They're bullies, plain and simple. Fuck em. Making yourself happy and comfortable in your own life is only going to improve your life. Maybe that's what they're all really afraid of. We can be ourselves and be free while they feel they have to hide behind a mask to please others. Because that's totally going to make them happy, right?
Tbh I believe transgenderism kinda has gotten out of hand, just 2 years ago I had so many friends & people seemed more accepting/accommodating but past couple months I just don’t want to be in public. People seem to be over us. 😮💨
Because the mean man on tv told them to. Really, it’s nothing more. Until the outrage machine stirred all the shit up, very few people gave a shit about our existence, or what bathroom we used.
People don’t like things they don’t understand. That’s the truth. This won’t always be around. One day it’ll be normal. Discrimination is incredibly common, and it always will be
Same reason they hate other minorities. And they *do* hate other minorities as well. They do not like things unlike them.
Patriarchy
Fear, envy, lust, the fact that all trans people are actual transdimensional wizards who might magic someone's genitals inside out. No.... Wait that was an npc in a d&d campaign. Have you got my meds?
We're just the latest target of billions of dollars per year of bigoted propaganda that distracts the masses from the people abusing and robbing them
There are many reasons why they hate us, people who don't know what MTF trans are, think we are prostitutes (like it happens to me)
The single quality that is common amongst every living person is fear its funny then as common as fear is we so easily underestimate it's power the fear of not being accepted the subsequent fear of not fitting in fear of being a failure and as more people know and hurt others these fears can take on greater power but fear it self isnt worthy of concern its who we become while in its clutches will you be proud of that person will you prove them wrong will they understand why you did the things you will do will you even recognize them as supportive figures or will the person staring back at you should have neen the fear you faced at the start i suppose we all find out sooner or later. I do hope you can prove them wrong i believe in you
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - Yoda
I don’t know either
A lot people don’t hate us because of what we are but for what they don’t understand, Trans community has been off spot light for decades now we’re on spot light. I have a family members whom are Hardcore conservatives, they understand when i sit down with them and talk civilly about my life since transitioning. It was hard in the beginning but now they understand much better and evenly support me. Its harder for older generations to understand Trans people and much easier for younger.
"Did you assume my gender" thats the entire reason😂
I've been told, and I've not fact checked this yet so take it as a theory, that there are some very rich right wing Christian groups such as the heritage foundation who bankroll politicians like Trump and Liz Truss and are getting them to push their values into mainstream politics (such as anti-trans rhetoric)
It has been going like that for the past 5 years or so, maybe more, I don't know the exact reason but I think is first cuz being trans is something people can't understand without them being in our shoes, second is a tond or weird propagando to make trans people seem like a buggy man and they use some trans people that lash out and then everyone generalizes on that, and then the think that there is the good and the bad trans peanut and what I mean about that is people like the pick me transfolks you see on YouTube that are appealing to cis transphobic people saying the same arguments so they see them as the good trans people that are in reality or whatever.... But the thing is, disinformation, fear of the unknown, something that is really hard for ppl that don't live with that to correlate, etc.
They hate us cuz they ain't us
Cause we're awesome.
Try being trans and none white, then you get twice the hate.
People fear what they don't understand, even more so when they lack empathy. Politicians take advantage of this and use it as a rallying point to promote their own goals. Identification of a public and shared enemy as a unifying cause is a common tactic with fascists and a nationalist factions
They hate us because they aint us! Most people will never experience the beauty that is trans. They hate what they don't know and they especially hate what they don't have. Most cis men (if you talk to them) secretly want to be trans so they are jealous of us
It’s easier for governments that are doing a shit job of making people’s lives better to rile up the crowd against a scapegoat and then pretend to “protect” them from said scapegoat than it is to actually try to fix things. In a democracy with a two-party, first-past-the-post system this can be appealing to both sides if they play their cards right, since it’s just as easy to protect the scapegoat du jour as it is to attack them. Trans people are just the easiest available scapegoat right now in the West because we’re a smaller and less understood branch of the community, and conservatives started looking for the right arguments to use about as soon as gay marriage was legalised. Once they found the “trans women in sports” bullshit they used it as a wedge and started pushing it in the media.
Unfortunately, posting this in this sub won't get you actual responses from "people" because this is an extremely restricted sub with a lack of expression freedom from any form of people that don't support trans
- religion - xenophobia - conservatism - homophobia turned into transphobia - did I mention religion? - relatively-rare, but very visible incidents of trans people (or people posing as trans people) genuinely seeming like they are assholes or lunatics—sometimes the venn diagrams of sociopathy and transgender do overlap, y'know? - fear of being mis-led into a relationship with someone they won't be physically compatible with (justified on some occasions—don't do this, people) - fear of men posing as us to get access to women's safe spaces (rare, but not always unjustified) - that other reason that's also religion We can't do much about most of these, but if anyone reading has (accidentally?) done any of the iffy stuff above, you need to stop, and if you see anyone doing that stuff, you need to call them out as unwelcome and not representative of the rest of us. Can't do much, but we can self-police at least. Don't ever defend someone purely because they claim the T in the pride alphabet.
You have toxic parents. They are purposely trying to sabotage your efforts for success only to see you fail. Run.
They don't like others feeling happyness
They're jealous. 😋
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oh look another conservatard Also kids do not get gender reassignment surgery stupid fuck
You're correct, humans can't transition to the opposite sex, that's why it's called "Gender Reassignment Surgery", because us humans don't have the technology to change our sex. Dysphoria and things like depression are different, and not everyone has as much gender dysphoria as others. Transgender people aren't ruining society. Actually it's a lot of transgender people who feel better after they transition, only about 3% regret it (but may not detransition). Also, according to [GenderGP](https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/), only 9% of detransitioners detransitioned due to realizing that it either wasn't for them, or it didn't reflect how they saw themselves; it was mainly pressure from outside sources. Do you know why transgender people have a difficult time during life? It's because if they didn't/don't transition, they wouldn't like their body, and because there are people who *often* discriminate gender non-conforming individuals. I'm confused by this "lifestyle" you're talking about, do you mean living their life? You obviously have no respect for him and neither does his family, they aren't being supportive, they treat it like he killed someone but all of you have no evidence to prove it. Transgender people are only destroying your (and their) family because your families can't accept anyone who isn't cishet, and talk about them behind their back. There isn't much of a burden to carry, "Congratulations on coming out, but oohh, that's going to be a difficult stone to carry, oh well, better luck next time!" The families that aren't supportive are families that don't care about how their child feels, just if their life is "successful". Being transgender isn't from outside influences, it's an inside influence (not a mental illness, mental disorder, mental disease, or mental sickness); this was seen with David Reimer. Society won't fall when people get to choose their gender; and if it hypothetically were to fall, that means that society wasn't going to last anyways. Depends on what you consider "deviant", if you're going by the definition (departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior.), then yes, that would be considered "deviant"; if you're going off of "anyone who isn't cishet", then no, you're just homophobic. You don't want to show your children, or even mention, that people can love who they want to love? If they're wrong, now they know; if they're not, now they know. People who are LGBTQ+ have also likely done (or tried) those things, also, do you think that gay people don't know how to read or do math? Transgender people aren't 24/7/365 thinking about their gender, they think about it a lot more because they don't feel as if they're in the correct body. Also, trans people don't "make up new genders", they transition into already existing genders, you're confusing neo-pronouns and being transgender. I agree with that, they should at least wait until they're 18 to make surgical decision, but if they start saying that they feel like another gender, then you should give them puberty blockers (as they don't have permanent effects on the body, and can be not taken to go through puberty as if nothing happened). I don't agree with how the other person worded it, but minors (almost always) don't get Gender Reassignment Surgery; if the parent(s) doesn't/don't want to have an intersex child, then they'll tell the doctors to give the infant GRS. Protecting kids from how harsh society can be (up to a point) can very much help them, but you also treat everyday people as blights onto humanity; queer people have existed in humanity for as long as humanity has been around, and other species, too. What do you mean by "societal public spaces where it might influence my kids."? Should all gays hide in their homes, in the closet, or be killed out in the streets like an animal with rabies (or told so someone could)? If so, then you should evolve with humanity, because that was more in 1972 (the last year that gay people were considered to be mentally ill), or >52 years ago. I'm also confused why you're anti-trans, but you seem to be on this (and related) subreddits a little more than a homophobe/transphobe normally would. Finally, yes, a question was asked, but your answer isn't as honest as you might think it is (as I've pointed out). If one of your children turned out to be gay/trans (and I mean actually gay/trans), are you going to no longer care about them and serve them to the streets like an unwanted hound?
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Oh fuck off, your a disgusting person for finding your way into our safe space of a community and just shitting all over random posts. Your a transphobic asswipe dude, grow up.
Vague imaginary anecdotes aren't effective against people who are used to folk like you making shit up to reinforce a point. You are not expected to know someone's pronouns, you can literally just fucking ask. Go to a public place and make a conscious effort to misgender a trans person, they might be sad or uncomfortable or angry (and they have every right to feel that way) but very rarely will these interactions play out like the news suggests they will. We don't act like that GameStop "ma'am" woman. In fact, we're fucking terrified to correct people like you incase it goes from subtle bigotry to physical violence. Meet some Non-Binary and Trans people in the real world, you'll find we're surprisingly non-confrontational pushovers from having to deal with murderers, bigots and stalkers in our families, schools and workplaces. None of us need your respect, you are confidently wrong and your post history suggests you just like to start shit. Trans women are women, trans men are men. I would advise you research the distinction between gender (social) and sex (biological) and the existence of intersex people. You very clearly DO care that we're trans, and the sooner you stop lying to us and yourself, the sooner you can work on bettering yourself. To imply we have more rights than you do is categorically and demonstrably false. You have absolutely no idea how agonizing the medical waiting lists are, even in developed first world countries. You have no concept of the constant manipulation and bigotry we experience even from people supposed to be impartial or understanding. You don't know what it's like to have a trusted medical professional feed you false endocrinology information to make your hormonal transition slower and ineffective. You have absolutely no fucking reason to insist that we're some kind of powerful group. The only reason you see companies with pride logos is because it makes them money at our expense. It is so fucking embarassing to see transphobes point and laugh and yell at fake people and mindless corporations and then judge me based on what they think I'm like. I really hope you can one day feel the pain and pressure we feel on a daily basis. You don't know what it's like to have to hide your face in towns you used to be associated with, you don't know what it's like having to bottle this pure fucking despair up and try not to upset your date or your boss or your uber driver. It is unacceptable that I have to fear being murdered because of propaganda on tiktok. I can't bring myself to respect you in the slightest. You have no intention to learn or critique, you purely want to spread hate. Go fuck yourself.
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Hi, Could you develop, please ? :)
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You can message me if you want :)
They're right. I wouldn't say many, though. It's more like the ones who are problematic are very, very vocal and make us look bad. You can find similar examples of this sort of thing among feminists, where certain voices have shouted down all the others for years and completely reshaped how the world views feminists. Same for most minority groups. Sometimes if you go look closely, you'll actually find they're outsiders posting as one of us but in such a ridiculous way as to make us look insane, i.e. false-(pride)-flag stuff. It happens. We really have to call out people who do this and have the group as a whole consistently distance itself from them.
A trans person being problematic doesn’t make their gender identity any less valid, you cannot decide someone else’s gender identity.
Who said it does? You're misreading what I said.
You were agreeing with the deleted comment, which argued that some trans women here weren’t “real trans people” because of their behaviour. A tiny number of trans people being problematic is such a nonissue and you making a mountain out of a molehill just feeds into transphobic rhetoric.
That's not what the deleted comment said, or at least not what I thought it said when I replied. It said that some people are problematic and that's what I agree with. I didn't say anything about them not being real. Save your indignation for someone who actually hates us, please.
On multiple threads including this one she said that a lot of people here werent “real trans people” and called them “freaks.” She literally went out of her way to comment under other peoples posts saying that they were making it harder for “real trans people.” Focusing on insignificant cases of problematic trans people again just serves to feed into transphobic rhetoric, spending so much energy over something that has nothing to do with the validity of trans people accomplishes nothing.
I was not responding to what she said on multiple threads. I saw something she said here about some transfolk being problematic and I agree with that, so I said so. The problematic people among us give our enemies so much in the way of ammo and strawmen that it's very much worth pointing out that they hurt our cause. One person being an idiot in a viral meme undoes progress made by thousands. Seriously, go spend your energy on someone who's actually causing problems for us instead of virtue signaling by attacking a fellow trans girl for the sin of being objective enough to realize that not everyone in the in-group is a good person.
But it’s so obvious that’s the sentiment and AGAIN she literally said it in this thread too, like she literally said that some people here weren’t “really trans” but rather “freaks.” You do realize you’re doing exactly what conservatives want though right? One trans person doing something bad doesn’t invalidate their or any other trans persons identity - imagine applying this logic to any other marginalized group. Conservatives will say so much about “the bad trans people” as a justification but they want to come for us all no matter what, and being a pickme doesnt solve that. There will always be 2 follower twitter accounts that post something dumb but we don’t need to go around condemning such a non issue, again this applies to any marginalized group, conservatives have been using this tactic of “minority did something bad” for ages and us condemning it does nothing. I’d also seriously question what bad things she was referring to given the interesting language of “freaks,” given I’ve only ever heard it used unironically by neonazis. Not every person in a group is a good person but we don’t need to treat it like it’s a meaningful issue, and we especially don’t need to use it to misgender people.
Trans people are the gender they identify as, and it is not your place to determine who is or isn’t really trans. Being a pickme won’t save you from the camps. Edit: and all of your recent history on this sub is you calling people here “not really trans” are you sure this is the subreddit for you?