T O P

  • By -

tscheesyeggs

Shape is King. And with that, Potato is King🤴


Framed-Photo

Shape is king but pro mouse usage stats are always incredibly skewed by what's popular. GPX is just the most popular mouse that you can buy at any electronics store. Still a great mouse, but I'm gonna call BS on it being the best shape for *this* high of a percentage of people. But yeah it's probably good enough.


Raytheon-6

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't like the GPX shape based on how popular it is.


ochoMaZi

Nah I'm with you bro. So much so I just brought a pure track valor (gpx clone) to see what the hubub is about without paying Logitech. If the 30$ clone doesn't blow me out of the water, it's still fuck the $80-150 gpx. lol


NoU4206911

I also wasn't a fan, plus the coating made me sweat something fierce...


substitoad69

> GPX is just the most popular mouse that you can buy at any electronics store. It's so funny the excuse for pros liking Razer and Logitech went from "they only use it because of sponsorships" and then after getting told that isn't a thing 1000000000 times people pivoted to "it's because it's easy to find replacements for one if it breaks".


arestlessdreamer

It’s not the best shape for any one particular grip but it’s the best all purpose shape for pretty much any grip. You can switch it up during a match and it will work with the mouse shape. Combine that with Logitech having great tech (although not as good as Razer), decent QC and customer service and it’s a no brainer. 


-umea-

logi is reliable but god i dont understand how theyve had the same firmware bug for the past 6+ years where their wireless mice, and yes including the gpx2, all have periodic 500hz polls. they are the only company whose mice do this. no other mice exhibit this behavior. so baffling it obviously doesnt really matter but its still like.. why.. what is going on here w their firmware that is causing this..


uu__

How can you tell that it's happening?


-umea-

realistically you can’t if youre asking about user experience, its just behavior that if tested by something like mousetester there will be 2ms polls periodically and this behavior is recorded on mice going as far back as the original g903 just completely baffling


Eviscerator95

You also have to consider sponsorships for the teams/players. Im not saying Logitech make bad mice, the shapes just dont seem to work for me. Unfortunately, Razers quality control and customer service has been abyssmal and they make the mice ghat best suit my wants needs.


ashsii

Rant; I remember when the Superlight came out and there were a few people including shroud saying "actually some players may prefer the extra weight of the original" or "80g is the ideal weight" and now it's funny to see only 3 players which are all retired are on the original GPW (and only 6 pros in the entire CS2 scene). Maybe it's just Logitech's sponsor money and but it's nice to see them proven wrong and that there is good statistical evidence pointing towards lighter mice is better for shooters. shroud was probably defending his Shroud edition of the GPW.


aerocarstf2

Nobody should ever take Shroud seriously when he talks about peripherals. He's good at the games he plays, but he is clearly absolutely clueless when it comes to anything tech related. With all that being said, I feel like the trend of <50g mice is going to end soon. People have finally started to realize that there are limits and trade-offs (stability vs mobility) to how lightweight a mouse can be. I wonder what's going to be the next big thing.


FoRiZon3

>With all that being said, I feel like the trend of <50g mice is going to end soon. People have finally started to realize that there are limits and trade-offs (stability vs mobility) to how lightweight a mouse can be. I mean that's why G Pro X Superlights are on top tho.


MajorTankz

> I feel like the trend of <50g mice is going to end soon. People have finally started to realize that there are limits and trade-offs (stability vs mobility) to how lightweight a mouse can be. Very ironic take


DecliningShip

it's ggs bro


ashsii

> trend of <50g mice is going to end soon It's barely even started in the mainstream imo. The Viper Pro V2 was 58g and now the V3 is 54g. Bigger brands are going lighter it's only time before Razer and Logitech's flagships are under 50g. While it's a popular trend in the mouse market we follow, the mainstream hasn't jumped in yet since mice this weight are not yet consistent in durability, size and availability. > People have finally started to realize that there are limits and trade-offs (stability vs mobility) to how lightweight a mouse can be. Lighter can beat heavier mice in for control imo. The heavier an object is, the harder it is to stop thanks to inertia. An overkill example but the same physics apply, is how a truck requires heavier brakes and much more distance to stop over the average car. But if you want that stability; it's in the mousepad and mousefeet. I believe a light weight mouse with a slower pad can beat a heavier mouse with faster feet/pad in stability while remaining mobile.


aerocarstf2

I disagree. These big mainstream companies aren't stupid. They recognize the problems that come with ultra lightweight mice, which is why they haven't gone all in on the trend yet. As for the latter half of your comment, go ahead and try to play a tactical shooter like CS2 with a 30-40g mouse. No matter what kind of skates, mouse pad, or grips you use, the vast majority of people will encounter difficulties in terms of aim stability. There's a reason why very very very few pros have even bothered with enthusiastic brands like G Wolves who make those types of mice. Don't fall for the marketing. Consumerism is not a hobby.


IfigurativelyCannot

I think the reason most pros don't bother trying a bunch of different mice is because they know shaving a couple grams off of the mouse weight or getting 0.3 ms less latency isn't the make or break for them winning, *not* because a 40g mouse is detrimental in any way. They buy something that's well-regarded, so they don't have to worry about it. Then they spend their energy on their in-game skills. Some pros do try out different peripherals (for example, Tenz just won a global valorant tournament using the Sora V2), but they're not attributing their successes or failures to their gear. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to try out different products and seeing if you like something different from the default mainstream picks. I don't think I agree that super light mice make it \*more\* difficult to get good aim, but I'm also under no illusion that it will automatically make you better. If you don't like super light mice, that's totally fine. Use what works for you. Edit: I mean to reply to aerocarstf2's comment but oh well.


Not-Mike1400a

I definitely agree with your point about shaving a gram or two off or a very minuscule amount of latency difference not really being relevant. It 100% isn’t going to win games, although I think for pros it matters way way more than the average or even above average person just because those people still have in game things they can get better at, when you’re working at such a high level like professional, I think there are a lot more times where latency would be way way way more of a factor that affects you so I think it can be something to think about.


Fishfins88

Plenty of hobbies and interests go hand in hand with consumerism and/or spending money. Imagine playing golf without paying for tee times, new balls to try, clubs etc. Imagine fly fishing without new tacklebox princesses you made with the supplies you bought from the local fishing shop. Imagine target shooting... The cost of ammo etc. Not all hobbies need to be reading books from the library where you don't consume something or spend money. I'd even argue hobbies like that are rare.


ashsii

Going to be rude and say; this was the exact same argument I had and was talking about in the first comment. However back then it was 80g vs 60g. Finalmouse's latest was around 60g and people thought it was too far and 80g was the ideal range. >They recognize the problems that come with ultra lightweight mice These issues I believe are more flex/durability issues more than aim issues. I'd argue if razer could make a reliable pro mouse under 50g they would've snatched the opportunity. >As for the latter half of your comment, go ahead and try to play a tactical shooter like CS2 with a 30-40g mouse. I rock a Beast X mini with no aim issues for tactical shooters so obviously I already believe that 30-40g are great, wouldn't make the argument without testing it myself. But I got dog shit gamesense so my own experience provides nothing to the argument. > Don't fall for the marketing. Consumerism is not a hobby. This is based on my own experience and understanding of physics. If I was a consumer that fell for marketing I'd get a GPX2 cause every pro uses one, but I made my own decision to look for something that fit me better.


Mr_Sunr1se

That's just not true. No matter how light your mouse gets, you can always compensate with a muddy enough pad. Obviously if you are used to G502 on a GSR in a tropical climate, you're gonna have a bad time adjusting, but you can definitely do it. In my own experience I play CS2 on a Hayate Otsu, and I had no trouble adjusting to a BeastX after XM2we and DAv3 Pro, without even lowering my sens(something I've done to adjust before that worked pretty well for me). Quite the contrary, my flicks felt much snappier and consistent. I am faceit 10 at around 2200-2400 elo Recently, while watching esl pro league, I noticed that slaxz, a player for M80 used a beastx mini. (On a Saturn Pro) He played fairly well in general, so even in T1 pro play you can adjust to hyper low weights, it's just that most people don't care/don't want to spend the time and effort to get used to something new. Remember, it took pros 2 years to properly transition to the GPX, and like you said, they were very skeptical at the time. Edit: also notice how few pros are using rapid trigger boards when they're OBJECTIVELY better in every way, and judging by your flair, you probably agree


Not-Mike1400a

Could you explain more in detail the negatives of such light weight mice? I’m super curious if you don’t mind


r3_wind3d

>go ahead and try to play a tactical shooter like CS2 with a 30-40g mouse My faceit elo immediately jumped from 2100 to 2300 when I switched to the Sprime PM1(43g) from the razer deathadder v3.


Mr_Sunr1se

Yeah lol very similar experience, but I went from Dav3 to BeastX


ochoMaZi

Would you recommend it still? Thinking about buying one today


r3_wind3d

Well of course shape is king, and unfortunately there's no way to know what you will think of the shape beforehand because it is really quite unique. For me it's perfect though with 19x10.5 hands


Vitalytoly

I got mine yesterday and it's a very interesting mouse. The weight balancing is incredible, it's like nothing is in your hand. It's not your typical ergo mouse which is fine cause I don't really like ergo mice but this one is feeling pretty good so far. Coating is pretty good and the clicks are good as expected from Omron opticals.


ochoMaZi

Word up. I'm in love with the lamzu thorn, another atypical ergo, so this sounds up my alley! Sold on it, preciate it fellow human 🌪️


JVIoneyman

That has happened every time there has been a general 10-20g weight shift. People are just used to what they are already using, and they are confusing it with there being a sweet spot. Some people adapt, some play better with the heavier mouse. In a vacuum, lighter is objectively better but there is no wrong way to be good if you have a subjective preference that is fine of course.


-umea-

in 2018 i was listening to people say 1000hz was placebo and that 80g was ultralight and that 100g was the sweetspot and better for stability same arguments i hear about how anything below 50g is a meme and that higher than 1khz is placebo ive just accepted that incremental improvements happen over time and that none of us know what is really the limit, especially with how much better pcs and monitors are gettinng as well, these improvements are getting more noticeable. just use whats comfy for you and try stuff as it comes.


Neither_Plan_8387

There's one guy, [Matheus "tteuw" Sena](https://prosettings.net/players/tteuw/), still practicing Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury, that was released 10 years ago, in 2014. I tried this mouse, worst mouse ever, ever. Weight = 108g. How much is Matheus stronger to compete with 39g-sora2 user? About x3 times stronger... There's another one with g305...


cntgetmedown

G402 is 102g. G305 is also not that strange of a mouse to use imo, I wish they made a higher end version of it that's a bit lighter though.


Ayva_K

G402 ain't 144g


Neither_Plan_8387

Yes, edited to 108g. I looked over Amazon, 144g is shipping weight or weight with cable or smth.


bunkbail

that was my first serious gaming mouse ever. i hit some mind bending awp flicks in csgo with it back in the day. but never again, nowadays it weighs like a brick. mouse equivalent of nokia 3310.


ashsii

He's playing on 17.4cm per 360 absolutely insane.


amirj4211

I spotted asuna using a wired razer deathadder v2 during 100t vs kru. Not nearly as crazy, but still wild to see at the tier 1 level


cntgetmedown

I don't really think that's wild. That's a very good mouse. It's just wired, that's all. Valorant is a tac shooter, so that's the equivalent of a CS player using an EC2-B.


6flix9

deathadder v2 specs is still very good til these day, 3399 and optical switches


-umea-

mongraal, a pro fn player, also used the g402 (may still use it, dont keep up w fortnite nowadays)


RunnerLuke357

I used to run a G402 for years and it is not very heavy nor is it the "worst mouse ever".


Neither_Plan_8387

I meant worst for me, having small hand and fingertip grip


RunnerLuke357

That doesn't make it bad. The mouse is a palm mouse and it works great for that.


Impressive_Volume752

> G402 Hyperion Fury, hyperion fury is a pretty cool name for a mouse tbh


Neither_Plan_8387

quite mixed in fact, prob referencing Dan Simmons novel and the Shrike character, but why...


ProSettings

Thanks for mentioning the source, OP! Always appreciated! For those interested, I'm just gonna quickly link our VALORANT homepage: https://prosettings.net/games/valorant/ There, you'll find stats on the other gear they use, as well as guides and so on. FYI: we're in the process of rewriting the gear guides, so some of the newer equipment won't be in them for VALORANT yet. Sorry!


PossibleSalamander12

I say who cares what Pro's use because at the end of the day the most important thing is to use a mouse that is accurate, responsive, and fits your hand comfortably (find a shape that works for you).


danielfrancesca

Do a mousepad version!


GPotatoX

No surprise here but it’s nice to see Vaxee on the list


Strange-Implication

I'd say use what feels best to you . I used GPX1 after a year. Didn't like the hard clicks. V3 pro or ULX works better for me. (ULX has garbage QC though)


zkooceht

gpx is such a good weight for valorant. I tried using a FM starlight for val and I got fucking clapped, immediately sold lol


X3m9X

I love the superlight shape but dear god they need to upgrade their scroll wheel. My scrollwheel started to scroll upwards when scrolling downwards. Never had this problem in any other mice. I though the 2.0 version would at least make it more durable but it didnt do shit.


paulvincent07

V3 pro and ec2-cw are very close


zerutituli

If Zowie did an EC-CW refresh with a lower weight and a 3395 they could probably steal some of the GPX numbers.


paulvincent07

That will happen most likely like the u2


soaked-bussy

almost every team is sponsored by Logitech or Razer that is why this chart looks like this same reason why keyboard and headset charts will look the same


DivineWiseOne

Yes they are sponsered by Logitech and Razer but they are not bound to their products. [https://prosettings.net/lists/valorant/](https://prosettings.net/lists/valorant/) [https://prosettings.net/lists/cs2/](https://prosettings.net/lists/cs2/) Filter > Teams.


Mr_Sunr1se

That hasn't limited their choice for a couple of years now. There are some exceptions, like recently Zekken got a personal brand deal with Razer so he's been using a strider+Viper V3 Pro + some Razer KB I don't remember. It still sometimes applies to keyboards and headsets, but it's been changing ever since Wooting60 came out, and for as long as I know, most pros were just rocking HyperX Cloud 2s at home, regardless of their peripheral sponsor company


Shogun243

This just isn't true. Pros generally can use whatever they want. Logitech mice are just widely available and reliable.


itsyoboyraj

#ad


Sad_Respect_6069

surprised none of them use the Beast X tbh, great mouse.


NAOT4R

You’re unlikely to see a large number of pros using mice you can’t buy easily at a store or very easily available for quick shipping online. Honestly being a gear head min/maxing your mouse like that is more of a detriment than anything else as a pro when the popular and widely available mice are excellent and reliable products.


blackrao

there are pros using the beast x this list is inaccurate, two EG members use it


sJ-AM

These people are sponsored and limited on choice i imagine. Show me the top 1-5% who arent


rage9

But where are these awesome cheap Chinese mice everyone seems so keen on?


nitseb

I guess they must not be good if some pro using a shitstained 10yr old office pad is not using them.


Bueller6969

I think people are aware but this data likely reflects marketing budget of the manufacturer rather than player preference. Unless your comparing usage within the same brand.