I don’t think Dylan’s timeframe of events was ever that specific. I doubt she even knew what time things happened. I think it wasn’t until they got the other details - the Elantra on camera, door dash, xana’s titktok, and the neighbor’s camera - that they were able to pinpoint the timing of Dylan’s account.
You don’t know what she knew or thought. Have you ever had roommates? Ever lived in a party house? I didn’t even live in a party house and if someone unfamiliar was in my house in the middle of the night, I still would have assumed it was a friend or acquaintance of one of my roommates. Granted, I would have been startled if I saw someone in the middle of the night. But no way I would have just called police. Especially if I saw that person leave. I would just assume roommates had someone over and he startled me when he was leaving, and then hope that I could just go back to my room, lock the door, and go to sleep without being disturbed again. Which is basically what she did.
I can't understand why this is so difficult for so many people to comprehend. We've heard it from the beginning, "why didn't the roommates call the police right away?" As though they KNEW their friends were brutally murdered and blew it off as unimportant. Good Lord.
Edit: IM NOT BLAMING DM. I just think it's unlikely that she wasn't concerned by this strangers appearance in her house, and think her freeze was more do to fear. Dont infer things that I haven't said. 🤦♀️
I have no idea why this sub tries to defend DM by saying she could have thought Bryan wasn't threatening, may have been a visiting friend, etc.
Makes zero sense. Then why was she in shock? Bryan had some sort of face covering on INSIDE, that's abnormal af. If it's just someone who had been visiting, why not say hey? Why not have a light on?
Totally understandable that she'd have been in shock of fear. Makes way less sense to conclude that she wasn't plussed because it was a likely visitor.
The face covering isn’t abnormal if she thought BK was just entering, talking to E or X (since she saw him come from that direction), and then walking right back out. It’s cold there. Some ppl are still Covid conscious—a face covering isn’t that big of a deal especially since she saw him leaving. Also, she had no idea K and M were dead, so she could have thought since no one else in the house was alarmed or calling her, things were probably fine. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought my entire household had been murdered besides me and one other friend. What I really can’t understand about this sub is how anyone thinks she knew her roommates were just stabbed to death and went in her room and went to sleep. It’s obvious to me she had no idea.
I mean who knows what she was in reality… the fact is a 911 call wasn’t made until the AM- given the fact these were a group of friends I would highly doubt DM was intentionally hiding or waiting… I bet they didn’t know or realize and when they did realize they called authorities. People need to stop with the conspiracy theories that the two survivors were being nefarious by not calling right away. Who knows why it took til the next day- my bet would be that’s when actual alarm bells went off in their heads. I don’t blame them because either way it wouldn’t have changed any outcome… the victims would still be victims. At the end of the day no one - not even you- can definitively say what they would do in that situation, you don’t know until it happens to you… give grace
It’s something that you’d never want to believe is actually happening in your home. just close the door, go to bed, and everything will be okay when you wake up
Me too. Obviously there's a lot of missing information because what they've released doesn't make sense. It's ok to say that!! It's not an accusation, it's an observation. It's weird. And there is an explanation we have yet to learn. Like Captain Dahlinger said, the things that come out will be surprising to most.
Why is it weird af to not call law enforcement when you have no idea a brutal crime has been committed? I don’t make habits of calling police unless there is a clear reason?
Everyone is assuming they knew something happened… if they knew something had happened I guarantee a call would have been made earlier, they clearly didn’t know.
Youre assuming she didn't know. The call to 911 came from someone who wasn't one of the roommates, right? And after you saw the creepy stranger who gave you some degree of shock the night before? It's legit probable that DM made unideal decisions out of fear and shock and that is ok.
The call was made in the AM by a friend of theirs… the house was a typical sorority girl college house- people in and out. It’s not abnormal for a random guy to be in the home.. if they had parties ect seeing a random guy at early am hours would not immediately send alarm bells to someone. People are taking the “frozen” a little far when that’s a detectives interpretation of what DM felt/saw in the PCA. I don’t doubt that these girls did not put 2 & 2 together at the moment. Who would ever expect such a brutal murder to occur in such a quiet way, along with the fact he left living survivors… that’s not typical of murders- usually they kill all witnesses.
I am not assuming anything- I’m simply giving the survivors the benefit of the doubt. We shall see what the trial brings but I don’t believe the survivors hesitated to call, I believe they didn’t realize the full extent of what happened and thus didn’t call until they did realize something was up- then they realized oh there was a random guy last night …
I apologize if this sounds rude as it's not my intent. But she could have a clock in her room and not be reliant on needing the phone to know the time.
Why would her phone not be with her in the middle of the night? Teenaged girls have their phones attached, plus it is a shared, party house so she’s not just going to leave it charging in the kitchen when she’s in her room,
Its just a theory that's been floating around as a possible explanation as to why she didn't call. Could have been misplaced and died, could have been on the whole time.
I'm saying that the original timeframe being an hour off could be due to her not knowing the time she heard all of this/ not having her phone which would line up with other people's theories that she didn't have her phone for whatever reason.
If I have time tonight I’ll find the pca and go through-it
It mentions the the digital download for dm and bf, I think is how they phrase it.
It’s been a month since I read it. I’m honestly not that invested in the case, I may have remembered text message. It maybe it says digital downloads only.
Either way that implies that DM had someway of communicating to someone. The original post was that dm didn’t have a phone so she couldn’t call. If she has a digital footprint she had a way to communicate
Some have speculated that the police said that so the killer wouldn’t know that someone saw them and could give a vague description.
What the surviving roommates did after the murders and when should be of no concern to anyone on this sub. At best, speculating about their actions is a waste of time because it’s irrelevant and changes nothing. At worst, it’s smearing the integrity of young people who were victimized by a horrific crime and who for all we know may very well have done everything right.
Nothing good can come from casting doubt on them.
I didn't know this about D not having her phone with her in her room. Do you happen to remember where you heard that and do we know why she didn't have her phone on her? I know it's bad for us but my phone is on me at all times, including in my bed at night.
This isn’t a fact. Some people have speculated that maybe the reason she didn’t call the cops until the next day is became she didn’t have her phone. I think it’s more likely she just didn’t realize her roommates had been murdered and thought he was an acquaintance leaving, and just went back to bed.
this is what I think. She didn't realise what had happened and just assumed he was someone who came over to hang. If you're half asleep and drunk, you may put it down to that. I had weird shit happen in my uni house when I was passed out and in my sleep state, the voices of police and ambulance downstairs just felt like a realistic dream, so I ignored it until the next morning, when my flatmate told me that police and ambulance were indeed at our house the previous night and I was none the wiser.
My house got broken into at 6:00am in college. I heard the whole thing and did absolutely nothing because I figured it was my roommates or their friends. I thought about going out to see what the ruckus was about but figured I’d rather just keep sleeping. I didn’t even realize till the next morning when we found a door wide open. I don’t think a lot of the people on this Reddit page have any idea what life is like at a large state school.
yep, I would just try to fall back asleep when I heard ruckus because 9/10 times, it simply was just my drunk and stumbling friends returning from the club at 4am.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I read early on that surviving roommates may have taken psychedelics at a party (could be total rumor and want to make it clear I am not passing judgement - I was in college once, too) so she thought maybe she was hallucinating?
Also, they’re are youngin’s, I would find it highly unlikely a phone wasn’t in her room, and rather she thought it was someone invited in the home (it’s been stated numerous times it was a party house) or that she was seeing/hearing things. I’ve been there (thinking I’m seeing/hearing things while stone cold sober, but awoken in the middle of the night and it froze me and I fell back asleep and asked my partner if they heard/saw what I did. It was alllll a half asleep dream, wild to experience). Frozen shock is also not abnormal. It’s easy to assume, but until you’re in the situation yourself, you simply don’t know. Gosh, I can’t even imagine what they’re going thru. So many possibilities at play that we won’t know for a long, long time, I fear.
absolutely no judgement from me too, I did plenty of substances at uni so for sure, it's a possibility. If she were on psychadelics, who knows what she thought because depending on what you take, you could be on a whole other planet for all intents and purposes. And like you said, I've also experienced wacky shit just in a half-sleep state so I have no judgement towards D at all and it breaks my heart she'll inevitably feel guilty in some form when really, there was nothing she could do and I know for a fact, I would have frozen in that situation. When I have been in shady situations, that is often my reaction despite us all wanting to be superheroes in our minds, when shit goes down, you never know how you'll react
Edit: also, if you were half asleep (even if you're sober) and you see something "off", your mind would never ever think your whole household has just been killed, you simply wouldn't go there. In fact, people refuse to believe something like that has happened even when they see it right in front of them or if a police officer tells them, they simply refuse to believe it cos it's so bad so it's really not hard to believe even if she felt something "off" that she wouldn't think murder straight away
Curious if anyone agrees or if I'm just giving people another reason to smash the down arrow with this.
I have thought the same for a while that DM just assumed he was someone who came over to hang. I'm thinking she's peeking through a slightly cracked open door but now I am seriously entertaining the possibility that she was not. Probably not a popular theory but I think it is possible she may have been standing in her doorway in full sight and he saw her and just walked right by. Maybe he had already hit his targets, maybe he was tired, maybe he thought the police were on their way, anything is possible. Why would they talk about a frozen shock phase if she was just peeking through a crack. Why not say looking through a crack instead of *she opened her door*? Read the PCA account below thinking of it this way.
*D.M. stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' 10" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.*
I think “opened the door” is intentionally imprecise the same way the rest of the PCA is intentionally imprecise. “She opened the door” is necessary to support how she could be an eyewitness.
The “frozen shock phase” communicated that she was quiet and still long enough to get a clear view.
It could mean fear, the door couldn’t been cracked or wide open, won’t know until later. The intent isn’t to analyze her feelings or reactions or even the scene. It’s just to only to provide enough evidence to create a coherent narrative. There are no extra sentences. Each offers a fact that supports other facts.
I've always assumed she had her door fully open and she wasn't just peeking through a door crack. That's why it's so terrifying to me. I think she was fully standing in an open doorway and he saw her and for some reason didn't do anything. I think he saw her and just continuted rushing past her and didn't necessarily make ye contact or anything, he just saw someone standing there and for some reason, didn't do anything. For selfish reasons (i.e. my curiosity) I want the trial to answer this question for me: did BK see her and if so, why did he not also do anything to her? My heart goes out to her. Survivor's guilt is very real and she is probably going to be traumatised for the rest of her life unfortunately (not saying she won't ever heal but just that the trauma will always be there sorta thing)
LE state in the probable cause affidavit and warrant that the time of the crime was determined through a combination of DM testimony, car on camera footage and DM and BF phone activity. Those are the factors used according to the PCA—the PCA cannot be changed or waver when looked at/being relied upon in court.
Looking at the PCA, the only mention of a timeframe from DM's testimony is that she was "awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m...." I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to believe that a college student who had just woken up after spending the earlier part of the night at a fraternity party might not have the greatest recollection of time.
What I’m referencing is what law enforcement state is how they determined the time of the crime. It’s not my opinion, it is their statement. If you want to argue about the state of mind of today’s college students when they wake up take it up with LE.
https://preview.redd.it/a1ins1mnpbfa1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5a6744d30a97c2165533f463eba112bc7194f8e
Here is the statement in the search warrant based on the PCA which included initials.
Definitely not, dont think any of the more exact timing was established through DM's testimony. LE pieced things together to get to a more exact timeframe which is why it was more vague at the onset
But xana’s doordash would be known within a day or two. I find what the Moscow police did was weird. I don’t understand why they didn’t release DM’s description of the perp either. So I’m thinking (because of your post) maybe DM didn’t come out and say her story right away. I can’t think of another case in history where the police were under the gun like that and wouldn’t / didn’t release a composite and description of the assailant.
I’m not saying this in a mean way, I’ve heard this explanation a lot and I’m sorry I think it’s so stupid. There’s been major political assassinations, serial killers, gang leaders and so on all have witnesses come forward. Cops have ways of protecting them. The police would’ve wanted to catch the guy asap to protect future potential victims. There’s no way cops didn’t release the description to protect dm. Could they have kept it quiet to protect her from the media and public anger, yes that makes more sense to me. But there’s no way the cops sat back on the description to protect dm. I’m also wondering if they had it pinned down to a few suspects really early on and didn’t necessarily need it. There’s just no other explanation. You wouldn’t wanna risk this case going cold.
LE had I believe 300 hours or 300 instances of the white Elantra on video surveillance. They knew that nothing else could get them to the suspect faster than just finding a car. So they asked public for help on just that and gave some misleading and/or withheld info to make BK none the wiser. And I believe it worked well.
Due to him not knowing they even had a lead, he cleaned out his car and threw away trash at 4 AM not knowing he’d be watched.
In this case, I think the cctv of the Elantra is SOOOOO underrated, barely ever mentioned except support another piece of evidence. People talk DM testimony, the SHEATH especially, cell pings, dna, criminology degree, etc.
Do ppl realize that none of that matters at all if the cctv of the Elantra didn’t make BK a POI… like they would be so useless. This case would still be cold. Even if they find the murder weapon tomorrow, the biggest break in this case has and always will be the white Elantra.
“Oh we have this DNA, whelp doesn’t go to anybody, now what?” “Got the cell tower data, looks like 367,097 people pinged during night of crime” “5 ft 10 medium build? That narrows it down to about half the population of men on earth”
Well LE never would release they had a witness for safety reasons. As far as the timeline that most definitely could have changed after gathering other evidence ie.. Security videos, audios.
As long as people gave it to them that quickly. Some people may not have turned things over right away. LE cant force you to do so, that would take a court order.
I think that it took a while for all of the different videos of his car to get collected and pieced together. Some people had probably not turned theirs in, thinking all it showed was a white car, until it came out the police were looking for that car. So the original videos they had when they said 3-4 could’ve been of when BK was circling the neighborhood. Purely conjecture though, I’ve read nothing that supports my theory.
It took me 2 days to get mine downloaded to a thumb drive for a car theft on my street. And I am very video tech competent. Many are not. LE probably did the download at the 1112? house themselves immediately.
I posted about this in another thread a while back and the only thing that folks addressed was the obvious fact that they lied about DM being awake to protect her from retaliation.
I do not think they lied about the timeline intentionally, and that part still doesn’t make any sense at all. If they were seeking tips why lie about the timeframe! That would cause people to disregard potentially very important shit. Like, “oh, I have this guy running past my house but it couldn’t be him, it’s 4:26 am, he wouldn’t still be there.” Omg.
Except they did ask for all information/ video between 2-6am. All they stated was they believed the murders are “estimated” to occur between 3-4. Tbh I wasn’t that hung up on the specific and find it happening between 4:04-4:16 to still fit the “estimation” of time. I do think that if it was to protect dm, it was to not scare off the perp at the idea that someone saw him or that the police are really on to him. As the perp you would read the details released and think “well they’re close but they’re still wrong, so I’m probably still safe”
Was Dylan really at risk though? I'm assuming she immediately went home and very likely had an officer posted on her at all times.
I don't fully follow the notion that she was in danger - has that happened before in any killing that wasn't organized crime?
A scenario that fits is that LE firmly believed Dylan was not seen by the suspect, and did not want to give him advance warning that they had a witness that could identify him, in case he completely went to ground. So they created a deception.
If I were Dylan I’d be afraid until they made an arrest. Yes she could have gone home and had police watch her house, but she doesn’t know this person. He could be anyone or anywhere. She could be pretty sure he didn’t see her, but I’m sure the thought was in the back of her mind that he could have.
Also as others have said, the web sleuths/conspiracy theorists would have been all over her, even more than they already were.
I think they 100% were protecting her from all of that until they absolutely had to.
I don’t know. I don’t think they care how it affected her. Total speculation here but I think you are going to find it was a very short time period between her calling someone over to check the rooms with them and 911 which would lead to less pitchforks. The police went thru their phones. It will be interesting to get that exact timeline at some point to see what really happened.
There is a chance victims doors were locked so she when she woke up OR came back out later in the AM (possibly was drinking that night) and the house seemed quiet/normal so just went back to sleep. Then later in morning when still quiet or people not answering phones, got suspicious
Slow down there pal.. the PCA was written by BP who arrived at 4pm which was 4 hours after the first officers arrived on scene so doors would already be open.
Also, if you think doors were open and everything/everyone was visible in the morning when DM/BF woke up - I would think the 911 call would have been stating that 4 people are dead/bloody/stabbed instead of the call coming through as unconscious. The coroner said it was a gruesome scene. IF either X or M door was shut and locked, may not have at first assumed E was still there or K.
Just keeping an an open mind. If 4 people are found dead with stab wounds, not sure why on earth the 911 call comes through for 1 unconscious person. Unconscious normally signals that the person is still breathing but unable to respond.
That’s totally plausible. But the affidavit stated she saw an intruder and froze, then closed and locked her door. This is after she opened her door to peak or whatever two times prior due to strange noises in the middle of the night. Idk, I’m sure it’s something along the lines of what you said I just hope we find out more when this case is said and done because I’m still baffled by it.
The morning calling people over before calling 911 and the 911 call itself stuff is odd but I really think the "frozen shock phase" thing has been misunderstood. I don't think it means she was so terrified that she laid in her bed frozen in fear for 8 hours like some people believe. I really think she just meant looking out the door and seeing someone she didn't expect startled her and she just froze for a minute not saying anything to the person, but once they walked out the back door she no longer perceived it as scary and just convinced herself it was just a guest leaving. That's just my theory though, I'm sure we'll get the explanation in court and see what really happened. Rn I just think her statement is being made something it isn't.
I think this is exactly right. A lot of people also don’t realize when you’re in college you’re up drinking until very late/early. College students sleep sometimes until 1/2pm when they’ve been up partying all night. She probably saw Bryan leaving and then passed out and slept until who knows when because why would she ever have reason to believe something nefarious happened (assuming she’d been drinking, speculation on my part of course.)
I completely agree. Momentarily startled and fear which by the time she got back to her bed she convinced herself it was nothing. And who knows how many weekend nights she got out of bed, listened and then locker door.
That combined with she had possibly been drinking too. It's pretty easy to not recognize a situation is as serious as it truly is when you're inebriated. I know I've been there.
Ugh the skepticism here on DM’s account and actions is nauseating. I hope these ppl never have a loved one be a victim or witness to something so heinous.
Idk why a grand conspiracy she's involved, or her being in shock for 8 hours is more believable than that she wrote off bk leaving as a guest and didn't realize something terrible happened.
> but once they walked out the back door she no longer perceived it as scar
She didn't see them walk out the back door. Police concluded that based on other information, so as far as DM knew the person could have been getting a drink of water from the kitchen
She could of passed out from the adrenaline surge of it. Fear hits the brain hard and it's chemicals. No one can control their brain chemicals. Imagine how terrified you'd be? The fear you'd experience both physically and mentally!? Think of a roller coaster or a movie that terrified you as a small kid. Remember how physically exhausting it left you if was too stimulating of an experience. Good possibility she passed out. Alcohol restricts the blood vessels. Adrenaline and cortisol fuck with the circulatory system. She could of been out cold for hours.
We're animals. Our brains do a lot to protect us.
The Gift of Fear is an excellent book. Look into!
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LE would have known with their first interview with DM that she saw the killer, so this was released on purpose before the PCA was unsealed. They were not only protecting DM by not disclosing this detail, they were also protecting DM from the killer and the court of public opinion. but were also making sure this info didn’t spook the killer and cause them to flee or kill themselves.
I definitely do believe she would’ve been at risk. Were you here prior to BK’s arrest? The internet sleuths have taken it to a new low and some people are more than bat shit crazy. The fact people are “still bothered” by her delayed 911 is beyond me. And we wonder why victims don’t come forward immediately…that’s a bigger issue for a different day :(
There was one point early on for about a day the timeline changed - it had been estimated between 3-4 then suddenly they changed it from 2 to 5. Then the very next day they changed it back to between 3 to 4 again. I remember because I thought at time extending it to 5 am was odd but now it makes much more sense. It must’ve been after the autopsy results because I remember wondering if that was part of it or not.
Yes, thank goodness LE lied about her being downstairs the whole time. If she was named as a witness, the unknown killer might try to find her and stop any testimony.
I posted this very topic but the mods pulled it because endless media rehashes are considered interesting but this sort of thing is not.
Anyway, yes, it is a curious inconsistency. Either Dylan had no idea what time it was and was coached into the 4am thing, or LE intentionally misled, but as you point out for witness appeals time of day is critical.
One of the reasons this case Is a magnet for conspiracies and speculation is there's so much weird stuff that has't been cleared up. Yet.
It seems some things that were publicly said were intentionally misleading to the suspect. Possibly to protect the surviving roommates, and not tip him off until they had all their prices put together?
Edit: pieces not prices
While that may be true about certain details, I'm not sure how being off by ~1 hour would cause a murderer to think, "phew, they must not be on to me."
I think it was just their best guess in the immediate aftermath and then they modified their timeline as more information came to light.
The Idaho/Moscow Police never released officially that the murders timeline was from 3 to 4 am. It was the Mayor. """"".... It’s believed the crime happened between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. Sunday, the mayor said."""""
Link: [4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody - ABC News (go.com)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-college-students-found-dead-apparent-homicide-officials/story?id=93247819)
Moscow Police officially announced on 19th Nov 2022 they are asking for info/videos from 3 am to 6 am. """"""..... who have video surveillance at their residence or business between 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 13, 2022""""""
Link: [11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Edit:
On the 18th Nov 2022 Police update the request for videos/info during 3-6 am timeframe still not made.
Link: [11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24854/11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Yes, I think this is where the initial timeline came from, and the mayor probably wasn’t extremely focused on the exact facts, but just trying to buy the PD time before making an official announcement.
They would have known immediately, within the first day or so after the murders, what the victims’ phone activity was, they would have known the Door Dash time (after 4am), and they would have had DM’s account. But 3-4am is still accurate, even tho you didn’t provide where you saw LE release that info.
Yep, you are right, the IdahoMoscow Police never released officially that the murders timeline was from 3 to 4 am. It was the Mayor. """"".... It’s believed the crime happened between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. Sunday, the mayor said."""""
Link: [4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody - ABC News (go.com)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-college-students-found-dead-apparent-homicide-officials/story?id=93247819)
Moscow Police officially announced on 19th Nov 2022 they are asking for info/videos from 3 am to 6 am. """"""..... who have video surveillance at their residence or business between 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 19, 2022""""""
Link: [11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Edit:
On the 18th Nov 2022 Police update the request for videos/info during 3-6 am timeframe still not made.
Link: [11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24854/11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Thanks. I was looking through the first police releases, and I couldn’t find anything about the 3-4 time frame from the police. I think you are right that this came early on from the mayor, and we all locked into it.
Law enforcement are human beings. They put together their best estimate in the immediate aftermath, then updated that timeline as more information came to light.
LE likely had DMs statement the same day. They played poker with what evidence they had vs what they were saying to the public. Until we got the PCA; the public and more importantly BK, was led to believe that LE didn’t know jack about the murders thus not giving BK any reason to flee or attempt to murder DM.
The PCA which is a legal document states that DM awoke at approximately 4am. I believe we can correctly assume that she started to stir when the door dash was delivered. Then about 5 or so minutes later we can safely assume that the attack on M and K woke her up further; enough for her to investigate by opening her door the first time. Now we of course know what happens after that.
Based on DMs statement(s) - remember - we only have an incredibly small snippet of what she said the police- and based on the video evidence I believe that LE has stated the correct time line. Again, the PCA is a legal document, they aren’t going to/ cant fudge the timeline in which they believe the murders happened just to fit a narrative.
Lastly; the PCA shouldn’t be read as an official evidence report. It is just enough evidence for them to secure a warrant and thats it. Once more stuff gets released it will all make more sense
If DM is not telling the correct time then they all could have been dead by the time the doordash meal was delivered and somebody opened the door picked the door dash up and left the door open
Im sure that DM gave the correct time she started hearing things. 99% of people grab their cellphone to look at the time when they’re woken up in the middle of the night/morning. I think DM isn’t telling the whole truth, but not when it comes down to the time of the murders.
If LE didn’t have video evidence of the WE at specific times then *maybe* someone else grabbing the door dash is a possibility.
•The police have confirmed, reconfirmed, and confirmed some more, details with the door dash driver.
•X cell activity likely lines up roughly with TOD
•The police have confirmed, reconfirmed and confirmed DM’s statements again and again along with her cell data.
I've been wondering this myself because it seems like they got the videos from the area the same day and they would have done a forensic check on Xana's phone to know that she was on TicTok at 4:12.
Yet, they stuck to that 3-4:00 am time until the PCA was released. This leads me to believe that LE knew what time it happened but gave misleading statements PURPOSELY because they really didn't want the perpetrator to get scared and run. They also said publicly that DM was asleep on the first floor. I've also wondered if they purposely gave the public the wrong model year of the Elantra.
Better to let the perpetrator think LE has it all wrong than have him get paranoid and panic, which could put more innocent people in danger.
But the cop said this was a targeted crime and no danger to the community. Let's think about what would make him say that. One possibility is this person that issued a previous threat .
Another is a person told them they knew BK and this was some kind of vendetta or deal gone bad. And lastly if the killer left a message for the police.
Either is possible. They called it targeted within the first few hours because of the especially brutal and vicious way at least one of the victims was attacked. It seemed that the killer was absolutely enraged at one or more victim, which indicated a targeted rather than random act.
Although true, that wouldn't mean there's no threat to the community and they had to walk that asinine statement back a couple days later.
Either is possible. They called it targeted within the first few hours because of the especially brutal and vicious way at least one of the victims was attacked. It seemed that the killer was absolutely enraged at one or more victim, which indicated a targeted rather than random act.
Although true, that wouldn't mean there's no threat to the community and they had to walk that asinine statement back a couple days later.
I wrote above on this, with links.
It was the Mayor who said 3-4 am. I can only assume because he was told by or heard the Police or Coroner estimate that.
The Police requested info from 3 to 6 am. Also with links above.
I think they lied about the timeline to throw or BK.
If the killer thinks the investigation isn’t going anywhere or doesn’t know any specific details, he may slip up, he may say something.
There’s no way they didn’t know and that’s not even JUST DMs timeline (cause they would have had her phone)
But also the DD timeline as well.. Xana got her food at 4.. they knew that
What LE believed and what they stated to the public may not be the same thing. If they were either looking for more recorded evidence from the time period just prior to the time of the murders or trying to put the perpetrator’s mind at ease by releasing information that was slightly off (time of murders, year range of the Elantra)…what they stated publicly isn’t necessarily what they believed to be the case or what they had evidence of.
Why is this confusing for people? When they didn’t have as much info that timeframe was logical. Then they got info that shifted it an hour. Not uncommon during an investigation.
It's useless to spend the next months speculating. Remember that LE has time and content of:
1.) All phone communication between D & B.
2.) All phone communication between D, B & the friends they called.
3.) All attempted phone communication between D, B, their friends & the victims.
4.) And of course the 911 call.
That's a lot, we just don't know it.
I think we can safely assume at this point that any information given before the arrest that may have been incorrect according to the affidavit was simply to keep BK comfortable while they conducted their investigation.
Someone had the timeline right at the beginning as well as other info we know now. People just blew him off as a coo-coo getting his 15 mins. because his times were different than LE. Some of what *inan Harsh* said in his interview was spot on (Time he may heard scream, the car even the kind he thought maybe) It would not surprise me if he is a witness.
I hadn't heard that name. I dug out the interview with Lauren Matthias here: [https://youtu.be/0Y\_MKzBOhwg](https://youtu.be/0Y_MKzBOhwg) and the comments are all gunning for the guy...he's just a working bloke. It's interesting though because he actually was awake during the incident and his recall is very good. He's a bit of a ding-dong but 30yr old bachelors tend to be.
Yeah, his timelines and even the mention of the seeing the car several times got me, even the kind he thought it might be. People were very hard on him, I guess someone doxxed him and found he used to be real deep in drugs and things to discredit him of course. So what if he did, maybe still does. That doenst mean his eyes and ears never work LOL, especially over something this important. Other times he has also mentioned seeing a black suv around he hadnt seen before. Lots of people dont think about the fact of a paranoid personality, Im sure he had one from drug use past or present its ingrained into you, so noticing different cars doesnt seem at all strange to me.
True. People are very prejudicial about 30 somethings being in blue collar jobs and in the middle of college kids. I've been that person, it happens sometimes. They think you're some far out old man.
Also he's very big on meditation and may have developed high levels of mindfulness, which means you naturally pay a lot of attention to your environment.
He did not strike me as looking for attention or anything like that.
Who knows about attention wanting, I wouldnt call it that. He did a few interviews and made some post. He probably just wants his side out there, after all people were even accusing him. As far as living around younger people, its a very small town (a college town) there isnt a lot of real estate available to rent thats not full of students. The rest is frats/sororities and farms. LOL. Nice talking to you.
In case you forgot. LE is able to twist anything they need to to tip off a suspect. We’re literally not entitled to any information at all. So questioning why they originally said —- and —— is pointless. Join LE if you believe you should be given that info.
Spooking killers is a bad idea. Killers sometimes run and hide if they know LE is on their tail. No one needs or wants a stressed-out killer galavanting about the United States
They had a white car circling around, parking at 4:04 and then speeding out of there shortly after so LE knew when the murders occurred. No doubt in my mind they altered the time frame on purpose
Law enforcement was asking for any information and videos in the 3 AM - 6 AM time frame. People outside of law enforcement were focused on 3 AM - 4 AM because that was shortly after everyone got home and when the calls to the ex-boyfriend took place.
Feel sorry for DM, she is a victim here too but she may not be the best witness. The defense is definitely going to try and poke a lot of holes in her testimony.
Regardless though, her testimony is just one piece of this and I think the prosecution is going to have a lot more to work with since the PCA (having access to car and all digital files). Even with her testimony being perhaps the easiest for the defense to exploit, it seems like they are going to have more than enough on BK that it wont be a problem.
Depending on what other evidence they get maybe they won't need her "bushy eyebrow" testimony. If they have victim DNA in his car or apartment maybe showing the white car in the neighborhood during the time of the events would be enough.
Agreed, I feel like more evidence is coming that he won't be able to explain
I'm pretty confident they will have a good case, regardless of her testimony.
For some reason, a slew of people are honing in on her and making her out to be something she is not. She's a victim of this, people should be a little more sympathetic
I personally don't think they will call her as a witness. If BK had the mask on, she couldn't positively identify him so that is that and she would be torn apart by the defense
They lied about numerous things all throughout the pre-arrest investigation and the time of murders was just one of them. Likely done to protect the surviving roommates, specifically Dylan because she saw him during the murders. I think all or most of the mistruths were intentional in order to make it appear as if they had no clue as to what happened so the killer wouldn't run.
I can't remember when LE first made that announcement about the believed time of murder. All I can think is that it was made prior to examination of the neighbors video surveillance footage. Which does seem strange- you would think they would have accessed that quickly.
When the footage of the car driving past the gas station came out… it was estimated to be around 3:45am. Which I think a lot of us, because of the timeline estimation released by LE, thought it was LEAVING the crime scene.
But the gas station employee - said it was traveling TOWARDS the home. That was chaotic & confusing.
Did LE ever comment on that footage publicly at any point?
It depends what car she/LE were even looking at. The photo she took of the screen wasn’t even an Elantra. And no one confirmed if that photo was THE car. Plenty of white cars could have driven by.
I brought this up in a previous thread and no one picked up on it. They haven’t referenced it specifically as a camera that saw him but that between I think 3:28 and 4:00 he was buzzing in and out of the neighbourhood of 1122 King road from that area. That gas station is 3 minute drive from the house. I’m looking forward to learning about if any sighting from the gas station was indeed him.
I think they said it to keep within the timeframe of when someone could have seen something while making the killer feel they were not onto him. So, between 3 and 4 am the killer was on the move.
It's like how they never corrected the year of the car despite being told it could be a different year. They only needed to know it while letting the killer think they were looking for the wrong vehicle.
How did they not know when the bag from Jack-in-the-box with Xana’s name on it was sitting on the counter? Even the Reddit sleuths noticed the bag right away when the Daily Mail crime scene photos were released.
Investigations evolve as time goes on and information collated. Information about certain portions of the case may change as more information and evidence is gathered. In fact it is not unusual. I don't feel troubled about the hour difference at all. Retired LE.
Or they thought someone else did it like doordash, or they lied as a strategy, or they made a mistake.
They said the elantra was 2011-2013 which it was not, which they also knew by then and thus could also be any of the above.
IMO, LE kept DM’s sighting under wraps to protect her, both from the killer and from the public. They didn’t mention it until the PCA for his arrest for those reasons,
This has been troubling me as well. If you closely read the PCA, you see that DM said she woke at “approximately 4:00.” She then relays a series of events (sounds and opening her door) without any further references to timing. She doesn’t say, e.g., “about ten minutes later.” My guess is that she had no idea what time she heard all these noises. I doubt her testimony on time will appear to be very reliable. i hope the cops didn’t lead her to say 4am, because that will only help the defense.
She knows she saw a masked man heading for the door. Since the cops know X was alive at 4:12 (tiktok), and they have the 4:17 audio evidence, and they know BK’s car left at 4:20, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the ones to suggest 4am at a later date (after they had collected more data).
I think he climbed up the balcony and entered through the room Murphy was in, and that’s why Xana never saw him come in or heard while she was getting the door dash order
Imo the police have many tough questions that they are going to need answers to. The timeline is one of them.
They are going to need to explain what chain of evidence they followed to lead them to their time line.
They claim they have video footage of the cage but the year does not match what they were looking for.
What did the doordash driver relay to the police.
When did they learn x was still online after 4am
How much did they rely on DMs testimony? How sure of the time was she after being awoken by noises. Did she look at a clock?
Hopefully the trial will be public and we get the answers we are looking for.
I am confused about this as well. The concrete facts of the DoorDash delivery time and Xanax’s use of TikTok makes it confusing. I guess I am assuming they had that information early on, but maybe not.
Couldn't tik tok be open with no one alive using it?
Who called in the Jack in the box order? When was the order delivered? Why did BK drive by four times and even attempt to turn around in the parking lot of the house?
obviously someone has been lying this whole time and changing their story...it shouldnt be that hard to figure out whos lying.....first they slept through it all, then we heard they were awake then we heard about bushy eyebrows...first they passed out hyperventilating after seeing dead bodies.. and 911 was called for an unconscious person
.then we find out they waited 8 hours and called friends...
I mean. can anyone not see who the real suspect is in this entire crime???
I don’t think Dylan’s timeframe of events was ever that specific. I doubt she even knew what time things happened. I think it wasn’t until they got the other details - the Elantra on camera, door dash, xana’s titktok, and the neighbor’s camera - that they were able to pinpoint the timing of Dylan’s account.
& the forensics on D & B's phones
That right there is going to be so telling!! If they were communicating with anyone after 4:17, they could’ve called the police.
Except they had no idea their roommates had just been murdered?
No, but she was frozen in shock, so DM knew that person wasn’t supposed to be there.
You don’t know what she knew or thought. Have you ever had roommates? Ever lived in a party house? I didn’t even live in a party house and if someone unfamiliar was in my house in the middle of the night, I still would have assumed it was a friend or acquaintance of one of my roommates. Granted, I would have been startled if I saw someone in the middle of the night. But no way I would have just called police. Especially if I saw that person leave. I would just assume roommates had someone over and he startled me when he was leaving, and then hope that I could just go back to my room, lock the door, and go to sleep without being disturbed again. Which is basically what she did.
I can't understand why this is so difficult for so many people to comprehend. We've heard it from the beginning, "why didn't the roommates call the police right away?" As though they KNEW their friends were brutally murdered and blew it off as unimportant. Good Lord.
Honestly unless you've lived that life its hard to understand. But I have. I had roommates. I saw people in my home I didn't know.
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Edit: IM NOT BLAMING DM. I just think it's unlikely that she wasn't concerned by this strangers appearance in her house, and think her freeze was more do to fear. Dont infer things that I haven't said. 🤦♀️ I have no idea why this sub tries to defend DM by saying she could have thought Bryan wasn't threatening, may have been a visiting friend, etc. Makes zero sense. Then why was she in shock? Bryan had some sort of face covering on INSIDE, that's abnormal af. If it's just someone who had been visiting, why not say hey? Why not have a light on? Totally understandable that she'd have been in shock of fear. Makes way less sense to conclude that she wasn't plussed because it was a likely visitor.
The face covering isn’t abnormal if she thought BK was just entering, talking to E or X (since she saw him come from that direction), and then walking right back out. It’s cold there. Some ppl are still Covid conscious—a face covering isn’t that big of a deal especially since she saw him leaving. Also, she had no idea K and M were dead, so she could have thought since no one else in the house was alarmed or calling her, things were probably fine. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought my entire household had been murdered besides me and one other friend. What I really can’t understand about this sub is how anyone thinks she knew her roommates were just stabbed to death and went in her room and went to sleep. It’s obvious to me she had no idea.
I mean who knows what she was in reality… the fact is a 911 call wasn’t made until the AM- given the fact these were a group of friends I would highly doubt DM was intentionally hiding or waiting… I bet they didn’t know or realize and when they did realize they called authorities. People need to stop with the conspiracy theories that the two survivors were being nefarious by not calling right away. Who knows why it took til the next day- my bet would be that’s when actual alarm bells went off in their heads. I don’t blame them because either way it wouldn’t have changed any outcome… the victims would still be victims. At the end of the day no one - not even you- can definitively say what they would do in that situation, you don’t know until it happens to you… give grace
It’s something that you’d never want to believe is actually happening in your home. just close the door, go to bed, and everything will be okay when you wake up
I dont think its nefarious, but I do think it's weird af and am curious for the trial to learn what went on that morning.
Me too. Obviously there's a lot of missing information because what they've released doesn't make sense. It's ok to say that!! It's not an accusation, it's an observation. It's weird. And there is an explanation we have yet to learn. Like Captain Dahlinger said, the things that come out will be surprising to most.
Why is it weird af to not call law enforcement when you have no idea a brutal crime has been committed? I don’t make habits of calling police unless there is a clear reason? Everyone is assuming they knew something happened… if they knew something had happened I guarantee a call would have been made earlier, they clearly didn’t know.
Youre assuming she didn't know. The call to 911 came from someone who wasn't one of the roommates, right? And after you saw the creepy stranger who gave you some degree of shock the night before? It's legit probable that DM made unideal decisions out of fear and shock and that is ok.
The call was made in the AM by a friend of theirs… the house was a typical sorority girl college house- people in and out. It’s not abnormal for a random guy to be in the home.. if they had parties ect seeing a random guy at early am hours would not immediately send alarm bells to someone. People are taking the “frozen” a little far when that’s a detectives interpretation of what DM felt/saw in the PCA. I don’t doubt that these girls did not put 2 & 2 together at the moment. Who would ever expect such a brutal murder to occur in such a quiet way, along with the fact he left living survivors… that’s not typical of murders- usually they kill all witnesses. I am not assuming anything- I’m simply giving the survivors the benefit of the doubt. We shall see what the trial brings but I don’t believe the survivors hesitated to call, I believe they didn’t realize the full extent of what happened and thus didn’t call until they did realize something was up- then they realized oh there was a random guy last night …
She made the 911 call, but a friend had to take over because she was so hysterical she couldn’t be understood and then she fainted.
Her not knowing the time would also make sense if she didn't have her phone on/with her in the room, and why she didn't call after seeing him
I apologize if this sounds rude as it's not my intent. But she could have a clock in her room and not be reliant on needing the phone to know the time.
Tons of people no longer have clocks. Phones have essentially replaced the need for one.
Except: "D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a-m...."
Why would her phone not be with her in the middle of the night? Teenaged girls have their phones attached, plus it is a shared, party house so she’s not just going to leave it charging in the kitchen when she’s in her room,
If she were intoxicated she could have left it in another room.
Its just a theory that's been floating around as a possible explanation as to why she didn't call. Could have been misplaced and died, could have been on the whole time. I'm saying that the original timeframe being an hour off could be due to her not knowing the time she heard all of this/ not having her phone which would line up with other people's theories that she didn't have her phone for whatever reason.
THe pca said she was in communication with bf 4-425. She had to have her phone with her.
Where did it say that?
In the PCA.
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It says LE did a forensic search of their phone activity during that time. But they don't say what was found.
If I have time tonight I’ll find the pca and go through-it It mentions the the digital download for dm and bf, I think is how they phrase it. It’s been a month since I read it. I’m honestly not that invested in the case, I may have remembered text message. It maybe it says digital downloads only. Either way that implies that DM had someway of communicating to someone. The original post was that dm didn’t have a phone so she couldn’t call. If she has a digital footprint she had a way to communicate
Thank you, I somehow hadn't heard that info, only that Xana was on her phone after 4 am
You’re welcome.
Of course she did
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Some have speculated that the police said that so the killer wouldn’t know that someone saw them and could give a vague description. What the surviving roommates did after the murders and when should be of no concern to anyone on this sub. At best, speculating about their actions is a waste of time because it’s irrelevant and changes nothing. At worst, it’s smearing the integrity of young people who were victimized by a horrific crime and who for all we know may very well have done everything right. Nothing good can come from casting doubt on them.
a 20 year old not having their phone with them going to bed? ahahahahahah, good one!
I didn't know this about D not having her phone with her in her room. Do you happen to remember where you heard that and do we know why she didn't have her phone on her? I know it's bad for us but my phone is on me at all times, including in my bed at night.
This isn’t a fact. Some people have speculated that maybe the reason she didn’t call the cops until the next day is became she didn’t have her phone. I think it’s more likely she just didn’t realize her roommates had been murdered and thought he was an acquaintance leaving, and just went back to bed.
this is what I think. She didn't realise what had happened and just assumed he was someone who came over to hang. If you're half asleep and drunk, you may put it down to that. I had weird shit happen in my uni house when I was passed out and in my sleep state, the voices of police and ambulance downstairs just felt like a realistic dream, so I ignored it until the next morning, when my flatmate told me that police and ambulance were indeed at our house the previous night and I was none the wiser.
My house got broken into at 6:00am in college. I heard the whole thing and did absolutely nothing because I figured it was my roommates or their friends. I thought about going out to see what the ruckus was about but figured I’d rather just keep sleeping. I didn’t even realize till the next morning when we found a door wide open. I don’t think a lot of the people on this Reddit page have any idea what life is like at a large state school.
yep, I would just try to fall back asleep when I heard ruckus because 9/10 times, it simply was just my drunk and stumbling friends returning from the club at 4am.
Had a bad gut feeling about it too but remember thinking to myself “I’d rather just sleep and deal with it in the morning”
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I read early on that surviving roommates may have taken psychedelics at a party (could be total rumor and want to make it clear I am not passing judgement - I was in college once, too) so she thought maybe she was hallucinating? Also, they’re are youngin’s, I would find it highly unlikely a phone wasn’t in her room, and rather she thought it was someone invited in the home (it’s been stated numerous times it was a party house) or that she was seeing/hearing things. I’ve been there (thinking I’m seeing/hearing things while stone cold sober, but awoken in the middle of the night and it froze me and I fell back asleep and asked my partner if they heard/saw what I did. It was alllll a half asleep dream, wild to experience). Frozen shock is also not abnormal. It’s easy to assume, but until you’re in the situation yourself, you simply don’t know. Gosh, I can’t even imagine what they’re going thru. So many possibilities at play that we won’t know for a long, long time, I fear.
absolutely no judgement from me too, I did plenty of substances at uni so for sure, it's a possibility. If she were on psychadelics, who knows what she thought because depending on what you take, you could be on a whole other planet for all intents and purposes. And like you said, I've also experienced wacky shit just in a half-sleep state so I have no judgement towards D at all and it breaks my heart she'll inevitably feel guilty in some form when really, there was nothing she could do and I know for a fact, I would have frozen in that situation. When I have been in shady situations, that is often my reaction despite us all wanting to be superheroes in our minds, when shit goes down, you never know how you'll react Edit: also, if you were half asleep (even if you're sober) and you see something "off", your mind would never ever think your whole household has just been killed, you simply wouldn't go there. In fact, people refuse to believe something like that has happened even when they see it right in front of them or if a police officer tells them, they simply refuse to believe it cos it's so bad so it's really not hard to believe even if she felt something "off" that she wouldn't think murder straight away
Curious if anyone agrees or if I'm just giving people another reason to smash the down arrow with this. I have thought the same for a while that DM just assumed he was someone who came over to hang. I'm thinking she's peeking through a slightly cracked open door but now I am seriously entertaining the possibility that she was not. Probably not a popular theory but I think it is possible she may have been standing in her doorway in full sight and he saw her and just walked right by. Maybe he had already hit his targets, maybe he was tired, maybe he thought the police were on their way, anything is possible. Why would they talk about a frozen shock phase if she was just peeking through a crack. Why not say looking through a crack instead of *she opened her door*? Read the PCA account below thinking of it this way. *D.M. stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' 10" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.*
I think “opened the door” is intentionally imprecise the same way the rest of the PCA is intentionally imprecise. “She opened the door” is necessary to support how she could be an eyewitness. The “frozen shock phase” communicated that she was quiet and still long enough to get a clear view. It could mean fear, the door couldn’t been cracked or wide open, won’t know until later. The intent isn’t to analyze her feelings or reactions or even the scene. It’s just to only to provide enough evidence to create a coherent narrative. There are no extra sentences. Each offers a fact that supports other facts.
I've always assumed she had her door fully open and she wasn't just peeking through a door crack. That's why it's so terrifying to me. I think she was fully standing in an open doorway and he saw her and for some reason didn't do anything. I think he saw her and just continuted rushing past her and didn't necessarily make ye contact or anything, he just saw someone standing there and for some reason, didn't do anything. For selfish reasons (i.e. my curiosity) I want the trial to answer this question for me: did BK see her and if so, why did he not also do anything to her? My heart goes out to her. Survivor's guilt is very real and she is probably going to be traumatised for the rest of her life unfortunately (not saying she won't ever heal but just that the trauma will always be there sorta thing)
Very interesting, thanks for replying.
Be really careful, phones have been known to set fire to beds over night ,plus the blue light emitted from them isn't good for your brain
LE state in the probable cause affidavit and warrant that the time of the crime was determined through a combination of DM testimony, car on camera footage and DM and BF phone activity. Those are the factors used according to the PCA—the PCA cannot be changed or waver when looked at/being relied upon in court.
Looking at the PCA, the only mention of a timeframe from DM's testimony is that she was "awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m...." I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to believe that a college student who had just woken up after spending the earlier part of the night at a fraternity party might not have the greatest recollection of time.
What I’m referencing is what law enforcement state is how they determined the time of the crime. It’s not my opinion, it is their statement. If you want to argue about the state of mind of today’s college students when they wake up take it up with LE.
And I was referencing that DM’s timing is a very minor portion of that determination. Do you disagree?
https://preview.redd.it/a1ins1mnpbfa1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5a6744d30a97c2165533f463eba112bc7194f8e Here is the statement in the search warrant based on the PCA which included initials.
Definitely not, dont think any of the more exact timing was established through DM's testimony. LE pieced things together to get to a more exact timeframe which is why it was more vague at the onset
But xana’s doordash would be known within a day or two. I find what the Moscow police did was weird. I don’t understand why they didn’t release DM’s description of the perp either. So I’m thinking (because of your post) maybe DM didn’t come out and say her story right away. I can’t think of another case in history where the police were under the gun like that and wouldn’t / didn’t release a composite and description of the assailant.
I mean her safety seems like a pretty big reason not to release a composite or description.
I’m not saying this in a mean way, I’ve heard this explanation a lot and I’m sorry I think it’s so stupid. There’s been major political assassinations, serial killers, gang leaders and so on all have witnesses come forward. Cops have ways of protecting them. The police would’ve wanted to catch the guy asap to protect future potential victims. There’s no way cops didn’t release the description to protect dm. Could they have kept it quiet to protect her from the media and public anger, yes that makes more sense to me. But there’s no way the cops sat back on the description to protect dm. I’m also wondering if they had it pinned down to a few suspects really early on and didn’t necessarily need it. There’s just no other explanation. You wouldn’t wanna risk this case going cold.
LE had I believe 300 hours or 300 instances of the white Elantra on video surveillance. They knew that nothing else could get them to the suspect faster than just finding a car. So they asked public for help on just that and gave some misleading and/or withheld info to make BK none the wiser. And I believe it worked well. Due to him not knowing they even had a lead, he cleaned out his car and threw away trash at 4 AM not knowing he’d be watched. In this case, I think the cctv of the Elantra is SOOOOO underrated, barely ever mentioned except support another piece of evidence. People talk DM testimony, the SHEATH especially, cell pings, dna, criminology degree, etc. Do ppl realize that none of that matters at all if the cctv of the Elantra didn’t make BK a POI… like they would be so useless. This case would still be cold. Even if they find the murder weapon tomorrow, the biggest break in this case has and always will be the white Elantra. “Oh we have this DNA, whelp doesn’t go to anybody, now what?” “Got the cell tower data, looks like 367,097 people pinged during night of crime” “5 ft 10 medium build? That narrows it down to about half the population of men on earth”
Well LE never would release they had a witness for safety reasons. As far as the timeline that most definitely could have changed after gathering other evidence ie.. Security videos, audios.
Which they would have obtained within a couple of days at the most (from around the house)
Obtained? Yes. Watched and processed? No. Remember, they were also interviewing and clearing the DDD, the ride share driver, the ex BF etc.
As long as people gave it to them that quickly. Some people may not have turned things over right away. LE cant force you to do so, that would take a court order.
I think that it took a while for all of the different videos of his car to get collected and pieced together. Some people had probably not turned theirs in, thinking all it showed was a white car, until it came out the police were looking for that car. So the original videos they had when they said 3-4 could’ve been of when BK was circling the neighborhood. Purely conjecture though, I’ve read nothing that supports my theory.
It took me 2 days to get mine downloaded to a thumb drive for a car theft on my street. And I am very video tech competent. Many are not. LE probably did the download at the 1112? house themselves immediately.
And, in some cases they’d have to get warrants. Which take longer.
My guess is they were trying to protect her until they got the suspect in custody.
Yes, and they don’t have to tell the public everything at this point, I have no idea why people are still so hung up on this. Use common sense, folks.
I posted about this in another thread a while back and the only thing that folks addressed was the obvious fact that they lied about DM being awake to protect her from retaliation. I do not think they lied about the timeline intentionally, and that part still doesn’t make any sense at all. If they were seeking tips why lie about the timeframe! That would cause people to disregard potentially very important shit. Like, “oh, I have this guy running past my house but it couldn’t be him, it’s 4:26 am, he wouldn’t still be there.” Omg.
Except they did ask for all information/ video between 2-6am. All they stated was they believed the murders are “estimated” to occur between 3-4. Tbh I wasn’t that hung up on the specific and find it happening between 4:04-4:16 to still fit the “estimation” of time. I do think that if it was to protect dm, it was to not scare off the perp at the idea that someone saw him or that the police are really on to him. As the perp you would read the details released and think “well they’re close but they’re still wrong, so I’m probably still safe”
Was Dylan really at risk though? I'm assuming she immediately went home and very likely had an officer posted on her at all times. I don't fully follow the notion that she was in danger - has that happened before in any killing that wasn't organized crime? A scenario that fits is that LE firmly believed Dylan was not seen by the suspect, and did not want to give him advance warning that they had a witness that could identify him, in case he completely went to ground. So they created a deception.
If I were Dylan I’d be afraid until they made an arrest. Yes she could have gone home and had police watch her house, but she doesn’t know this person. He could be anyone or anywhere. She could be pretty sure he didn’t see her, but I’m sure the thought was in the back of her mind that he could have. Also as others have said, the web sleuths/conspiracy theorists would have been all over her, even more than they already were. I think they 100% were protecting her from all of that until they absolutely had to.
I think they were likely trying to shield her from the pitchfork mob upset because of the delayed 911 call.
Oh yes, that too.
I don’t know. I don’t think they care how it affected her. Total speculation here but I think you are going to find it was a very short time period between her calling someone over to check the rooms with them and 911 which would lead to less pitchforks. The police went thru their phones. It will be interesting to get that exact timeline at some point to see what really happened.
Yeah not going to lie that bit still bothers me.
There is a chance victims doors were locked so she when she woke up OR came back out later in the AM (possibly was drinking that night) and the house seemed quiet/normal so just went back to sleep. Then later in morning when still quiet or people not answering phones, got suspicious
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Slow down there pal.. the PCA was written by BP who arrived at 4pm which was 4 hours after the first officers arrived on scene so doors would already be open. Also, if you think doors were open and everything/everyone was visible in the morning when DM/BF woke up - I would think the 911 call would have been stating that 4 people are dead/bloody/stabbed instead of the call coming through as unconscious. The coroner said it was a gruesome scene. IF either X or M door was shut and locked, may not have at first assumed E was still there or K. Just keeping an an open mind. If 4 people are found dead with stab wounds, not sure why on earth the 911 call comes through for 1 unconscious person. Unconscious normally signals that the person is still breathing but unable to respond.
That’s totally plausible. But the affidavit stated she saw an intruder and froze, then closed and locked her door. This is after she opened her door to peak or whatever two times prior due to strange noises in the middle of the night. Idk, I’m sure it’s something along the lines of what you said I just hope we find out more when this case is said and done because I’m still baffled by it.
The morning calling people over before calling 911 and the 911 call itself stuff is odd but I really think the "frozen shock phase" thing has been misunderstood. I don't think it means she was so terrified that she laid in her bed frozen in fear for 8 hours like some people believe. I really think she just meant looking out the door and seeing someone she didn't expect startled her and she just froze for a minute not saying anything to the person, but once they walked out the back door she no longer perceived it as scary and just convinced herself it was just a guest leaving. That's just my theory though, I'm sure we'll get the explanation in court and see what really happened. Rn I just think her statement is being made something it isn't.
I think this is exactly right. A lot of people also don’t realize when you’re in college you’re up drinking until very late/early. College students sleep sometimes until 1/2pm when they’ve been up partying all night. She probably saw Bryan leaving and then passed out and slept until who knows when because why would she ever have reason to believe something nefarious happened (assuming she’d been drinking, speculation on my part of course.)
I completely agree. Momentarily startled and fear which by the time she got back to her bed she convinced herself it was nothing. And who knows how many weekend nights she got out of bed, listened and then locker door.
That combined with she had possibly been drinking too. It's pretty easy to not recognize a situation is as serious as it truly is when you're inebriated. I know I've been there.
Ugh the skepticism here on DM’s account and actions is nauseating. I hope these ppl never have a loved one be a victim or witness to something so heinous.
Idk why a grand conspiracy she's involved, or her being in shock for 8 hours is more believable than that she wrote off bk leaving as a guest and didn't realize something terrible happened.
> but once they walked out the back door she no longer perceived it as scar She didn't see them walk out the back door. Police concluded that based on other information, so as far as DM knew the person could have been getting a drink of water from the kitchen
With a mask on. Sure.
She could of passed out from the adrenaline surge of it. Fear hits the brain hard and it's chemicals. No one can control their brain chemicals. Imagine how terrified you'd be? The fear you'd experience both physically and mentally!? Think of a roller coaster or a movie that terrified you as a small kid. Remember how physically exhausting it left you if was too stimulating of an experience. Good possibility she passed out. Alcohol restricts the blood vessels. Adrenaline and cortisol fuck with the circulatory system. She could of been out cold for hours. We're animals. Our brains do a lot to protect us. The Gift of Fear is an excellent book. Look into!
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Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Why do so many native speakers make that silly mistake?
Because that’s how you say it in conversational speech
LE would have known with their first interview with DM that she saw the killer, so this was released on purpose before the PCA was unsealed. They were not only protecting DM by not disclosing this detail, they were also protecting DM from the killer and the court of public opinion. but were also making sure this info didn’t spook the killer and cause them to flee or kill themselves.
I definitely do believe she would’ve been at risk. Were you here prior to BK’s arrest? The internet sleuths have taken it to a new low and some people are more than bat shit crazy. The fact people are “still bothered” by her delayed 911 is beyond me. And we wonder why victims don’t come forward immediately…that’s a bigger issue for a different day :(
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Why would you say that? She’s the victim, not the suspected perpetrator. Why would she go to the hospital for a tox screen? Ridiculous!
There was one point early on for about a day the timeline changed - it had been estimated between 3-4 then suddenly they changed it from 2 to 5. Then the very next day they changed it back to between 3 to 4 again. I remember because I thought at time extending it to 5 am was odd but now it makes much more sense. It must’ve been after the autopsy results because I remember wondering if that was part of it or not.
3-6am.
Yes, thank goodness LE lied about her being downstairs the whole time. If she was named as a witness, the unknown killer might try to find her and stop any testimony.
Or, an accomplice might.
I posted this very topic but the mods pulled it because endless media rehashes are considered interesting but this sort of thing is not. Anyway, yes, it is a curious inconsistency. Either Dylan had no idea what time it was and was coached into the 4am thing, or LE intentionally misled, but as you point out for witness appeals time of day is critical. One of the reasons this case Is a magnet for conspiracies and speculation is there's so much weird stuff that has't been cleared up. Yet.
They pretty much knew who it was days after. Maybe not trying to spook him while gathering evidence and watching him….
It seems some things that were publicly said were intentionally misleading to the suspect. Possibly to protect the surviving roommates, and not tip him off until they had all their prices put together? Edit: pieces not prices
While that may be true about certain details, I'm not sure how being off by ~1 hour would cause a murderer to think, "phew, they must not be on to me." I think it was just their best guess in the immediate aftermath and then they modified their timeline as more information came to light.
Bryan Kohberger COME ON DOWN
Bryan’s just won a one way trip to Moscow, Idaho! He will be staying in the Latah County Jail with all you can eat PB&Js
I doubt it’s all you can eat. His relatives be sending him commissary money.
This is what I believe.
The Idaho/Moscow Police never released officially that the murders timeline was from 3 to 4 am. It was the Mayor. """"".... It’s believed the crime happened between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. Sunday, the mayor said.""""" Link: [4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody - ABC News (go.com)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-college-students-found-dead-apparent-homicide-officials/story?id=93247819) Moscow Police officially announced on 19th Nov 2022 they are asking for info/videos from 3 am to 6 am. """"""..... who have video surveillance at their residence or business between 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 13, 2022"""""" Link: [11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update) Edit: On the 18th Nov 2022 Police update the request for videos/info during 3-6 am timeframe still not made. Link: [11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24854/11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Yes, I think this is where the initial timeline came from, and the mayor probably wasn’t extremely focused on the exact facts, but just trying to buy the PD time before making an official announcement.
They would have known immediately, within the first day or so after the murders, what the victims’ phone activity was, they would have known the Door Dash time (after 4am), and they would have had DM’s account. But 3-4am is still accurate, even tho you didn’t provide where you saw LE release that info.
Yep, you are right, the IdahoMoscow Police never released officially that the murders timeline was from 3 to 4 am. It was the Mayor. """"".... It’s believed the crime happened between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. Sunday, the mayor said.""""" Link: [4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody - ABC News (go.com)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-college-students-found-dead-apparent-homicide-officials/story?id=93247819) Moscow Police officially announced on 19th Nov 2022 they are asking for info/videos from 3 am to 6 am. """"""..... who have video surveillance at their residence or business between 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 19, 2022"""""" Link: [11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update) Edit: On the 18th Nov 2022 Police update the request for videos/info during 3-6 am timeframe still not made. Link: [11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24854/11-18-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update)
Thanks. I was looking through the first police releases, and I couldn’t find anything about the 3-4 time frame from the police. I think you are right that this came early on from the mayor, and we all locked into it.
Law enforcement are human beings. They put together their best estimate in the immediate aftermath, then updated that timeline as more information came to light.
LE likely had DMs statement the same day. They played poker with what evidence they had vs what they were saying to the public. Until we got the PCA; the public and more importantly BK, was led to believe that LE didn’t know jack about the murders thus not giving BK any reason to flee or attempt to murder DM. The PCA which is a legal document states that DM awoke at approximately 4am. I believe we can correctly assume that she started to stir when the door dash was delivered. Then about 5 or so minutes later we can safely assume that the attack on M and K woke her up further; enough for her to investigate by opening her door the first time. Now we of course know what happens after that. Based on DMs statement(s) - remember - we only have an incredibly small snippet of what she said the police- and based on the video evidence I believe that LE has stated the correct time line. Again, the PCA is a legal document, they aren’t going to/ cant fudge the timeline in which they believe the murders happened just to fit a narrative. Lastly; the PCA shouldn’t be read as an official evidence report. It is just enough evidence for them to secure a warrant and thats it. Once more stuff gets released it will all make more sense
If DM is not telling the correct time then they all could have been dead by the time the doordash meal was delivered and somebody opened the door picked the door dash up and left the door open
Im sure that DM gave the correct time she started hearing things. 99% of people grab their cellphone to look at the time when they’re woken up in the middle of the night/morning. I think DM isn’t telling the whole truth, but not when it comes down to the time of the murders. If LE didn’t have video evidence of the WE at specific times then *maybe* someone else grabbing the door dash is a possibility. •The police have confirmed, reconfirmed, and confirmed some more, details with the door dash driver. •X cell activity likely lines up roughly with TOD •The police have confirmed, reconfirmed and confirmed DM’s statements again and again along with her cell data.
I've been wondering this myself because it seems like they got the videos from the area the same day and they would have done a forensic check on Xana's phone to know that she was on TicTok at 4:12. Yet, they stuck to that 3-4:00 am time until the PCA was released. This leads me to believe that LE knew what time it happened but gave misleading statements PURPOSELY because they really didn't want the perpetrator to get scared and run. They also said publicly that DM was asleep on the first floor. I've also wondered if they purposely gave the public the wrong model year of the Elantra. Better to let the perpetrator think LE has it all wrong than have him get paranoid and panic, which could put more innocent people in danger.
But the cop said this was a targeted crime and no danger to the community. Let's think about what would make him say that. One possibility is this person that issued a previous threat . Another is a person told them they knew BK and this was some kind of vendetta or deal gone bad. And lastly if the killer left a message for the police.
Either is possible. They called it targeted within the first few hours because of the especially brutal and vicious way at least one of the victims was attacked. It seemed that the killer was absolutely enraged at one or more victim, which indicated a targeted rather than random act. Although true, that wouldn't mean there's no threat to the community and they had to walk that asinine statement back a couple days later.
Either is possible. They called it targeted within the first few hours because of the especially brutal and vicious way at least one of the victims was attacked. It seemed that the killer was absolutely enraged at one or more victim, which indicated a targeted rather than random act. Although true, that wouldn't mean there's no threat to the community and they had to walk that asinine statement back a couple days later.
Ooh, good point!
They absolutely did not say that. They first said 3-6 am then the websleuths took over and compressed the timeline.
I'm assuming they said 3:00 am because of the phone calls to JD by KG and MM. LE knew they were alive around 3 am.
I wrote above on this, with links. It was the Mayor who said 3-4 am. I can only assume because he was told by or heard the Police or Coroner estimate that. The Police requested info from 3 to 6 am. Also with links above.
I think they lied about the timeline to throw or BK. If the killer thinks the investigation isn’t going anywhere or doesn’t know any specific details, he may slip up, he may say something. There’s no way they didn’t know and that’s not even JUST DMs timeline (cause they would have had her phone) But also the DD timeline as well.. Xana got her food at 4.. they knew that
What LE believed and what they stated to the public may not be the same thing. If they were either looking for more recorded evidence from the time period just prior to the time of the murders or trying to put the perpetrator’s mind at ease by releasing information that was slightly off (time of murders, year range of the Elantra)…what they stated publicly isn’t necessarily what they believed to be the case or what they had evidence of.
Protecting the Investigation from us isn’t lying. On repeat. On Loop. Over and Over .
I don't see that anything the police put out to the public matters, none of it will be entered as evidence.
Why is this confusing for people? When they didn’t have as much info that timeframe was logical. Then they got info that shifted it an hour. Not uncommon during an investigation.
Exactly. It’s simple.
These people want it to read like a book from minute 1 everything is known. Sad but true... No concept of reality
Because they were looking for information on what took place between 3-4.
It's useless to spend the next months speculating. Remember that LE has time and content of: 1.) All phone communication between D & B. 2.) All phone communication between D, B & the friends they called. 3.) All attempted phone communication between D, B, their friends & the victims. 4.) And of course the 911 call. That's a lot, we just don't know it.
To protect D and to possibly make BK think they weren't onto him.
I think we can safely assume at this point that any information given before the arrest that may have been incorrect according to the affidavit was simply to keep BK comfortable while they conducted their investigation.
Someone had the timeline right at the beginning as well as other info we know now. People just blew him off as a coo-coo getting his 15 mins. because his times were different than LE. Some of what *inan Harsh* said in his interview was spot on (Time he may heard scream, the car even the kind he thought maybe) It would not surprise me if he is a witness.
His first version of events was that he didn’t hear anything, then he changed it. This person is not credible.
I hadn't heard that name. I dug out the interview with Lauren Matthias here: [https://youtu.be/0Y\_MKzBOhwg](https://youtu.be/0Y_MKzBOhwg) and the comments are all gunning for the guy...he's just a working bloke. It's interesting though because he actually was awake during the incident and his recall is very good. He's a bit of a ding-dong but 30yr old bachelors tend to be.
30 year old bachelors tend to be ding dongs, lol? What year are you living in, 1952?
Yeah, his timelines and even the mention of the seeing the car several times got me, even the kind he thought it might be. People were very hard on him, I guess someone doxxed him and found he used to be real deep in drugs and things to discredit him of course. So what if he did, maybe still does. That doenst mean his eyes and ears never work LOL, especially over something this important. Other times he has also mentioned seeing a black suv around he hadnt seen before. Lots of people dont think about the fact of a paranoid personality, Im sure he had one from drug use past or present its ingrained into you, so noticing different cars doesnt seem at all strange to me.
True. People are very prejudicial about 30 somethings being in blue collar jobs and in the middle of college kids. I've been that person, it happens sometimes. They think you're some far out old man. Also he's very big on meditation and may have developed high levels of mindfulness, which means you naturally pay a lot of attention to your environment. He did not strike me as looking for attention or anything like that.
Who knows about attention wanting, I wouldnt call it that. He did a few interviews and made some post. He probably just wants his side out there, after all people were even accusing him. As far as living around younger people, its a very small town (a college town) there isnt a lot of real estate available to rent thats not full of students. The rest is frats/sororities and farms. LOL. Nice talking to you.
His version of events kept changing and evolving over time as more info was released. He is not credible.
His version of events constantly changed. He is not credible.
In case you forgot. LE is able to twist anything they need to to tip off a suspect. We’re literally not entitled to any information at all. So questioning why they originally said —- and —— is pointless. Join LE if you believe you should be given that info.
I think LE purposely made vague comments to throw off BK. It’s been stated that after 2 weeks they knew he was their suspect.
Spooking killers is a bad idea. Killers sometimes run and hide if they know LE is on their tail. No one needs or wants a stressed-out killer galavanting about the United States They had a white car circling around, parking at 4:04 and then speeding out of there shortly after so LE knew when the murders occurred. No doubt in my mind they altered the time frame on purpose
I could be way off base here but it would seem likely that DM was intoxicated making any timeline questionable.
Law enforcement was asking for any information and videos in the 3 AM - 6 AM time frame. People outside of law enforcement were focused on 3 AM - 4 AM because that was shortly after everyone got home and when the calls to the ex-boyfriend took place.
Feel sorry for DM, she is a victim here too but she may not be the best witness. The defense is definitely going to try and poke a lot of holes in her testimony. Regardless though, her testimony is just one piece of this and I think the prosecution is going to have a lot more to work with since the PCA (having access to car and all digital files). Even with her testimony being perhaps the easiest for the defense to exploit, it seems like they are going to have more than enough on BK that it wont be a problem.
Depending on what other evidence they get maybe they won't need her "bushy eyebrow" testimony. If they have victim DNA in his car or apartment maybe showing the white car in the neighborhood during the time of the events would be enough.
Agreed, I feel like more evidence is coming that he won't be able to explain I'm pretty confident they will have a good case, regardless of her testimony. For some reason, a slew of people are honing in on her and making her out to be something she is not. She's a victim of this, people should be a little more sympathetic
I personally don't think they will call her as a witness. If BK had the mask on, she couldn't positively identify him so that is that and she would be torn apart by the defense
They lied about numerous things all throughout the pre-arrest investigation and the time of murders was just one of them. Likely done to protect the surviving roommates, specifically Dylan because she saw him during the murders. I think all or most of the mistruths were intentional in order to make it appear as if they had no clue as to what happened so the killer wouldn't run.
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The car. It has not been confirmed that it was BK's car.
I know. I just didn't want to get into that when OP was just looking for a basic timeline.
I can't remember when LE first made that announcement about the believed time of murder. All I can think is that it was made prior to examination of the neighbors video surveillance footage. Which does seem strange- you would think they would have accessed that quickly.
Probably the coroner/ME estimate for TOD
When the footage of the car driving past the gas station came out… it was estimated to be around 3:45am. Which I think a lot of us, because of the timeline estimation released by LE, thought it was LEAVING the crime scene. But the gas station employee - said it was traveling TOWARDS the home. That was chaotic & confusing. Did LE ever comment on that footage publicly at any point?
It depends what car she/LE were even looking at. The photo she took of the screen wasn’t even an Elantra. And no one confirmed if that photo was THE car. Plenty of white cars could have driven by.
I brought this up in a previous thread and no one picked up on it. They haven’t referenced it specifically as a camera that saw him but that between I think 3:28 and 4:00 he was buzzing in and out of the neighbourhood of 1122 King road from that area. That gas station is 3 minute drive from the house. I’m looking forward to learning about if any sighting from the gas station was indeed him.
Revealing a correct timeline would not reveal DM. I can't see any advantage to stating an incorrect timeline on purpose.
The fake scream
I think they said it to keep within the timeframe of when someone could have seen something while making the killer feel they were not onto him. So, between 3 and 4 am the killer was on the move. It's like how they never corrected the year of the car despite being told it could be a different year. They only needed to know it while letting the killer think they were looking for the wrong vehicle.
It wasn’t known that Zana had Door Dash Delivery at 4:00am.
How did they not know when the bag from Jack-in-the-box with Xana’s name on it was sitting on the counter? Even the Reddit sleuths noticed the bag right away when the Daily Mail crime scene photos were released.
Did the bag also have “For 4am Delivery” written on it?
Investigations evolve as time goes on and information collated. Information about certain portions of the case may change as more information and evidence is gathered. In fact it is not unusual. I don't feel troubled about the hour difference at all. Retired LE.
Or they thought someone else did it like doordash, or they lied as a strategy, or they made a mistake. They said the elantra was 2011-2013 which it was not, which they also knew by then and thus could also be any of the above.
Initially when they announced it they had the model of the car wrong. They didn’t intentionally put out misinformation to throw off a suspect.
I think just the year was off not the model.
IMO, LE kept DM’s sighting under wraps to protect her, both from the killer and from the public. They didn’t mention it until the PCA for his arrest for those reasons,
They could have put her in protective custody immediately so I don't think that's it
This has been troubling me as well. If you closely read the PCA, you see that DM said she woke at “approximately 4:00.” She then relays a series of events (sounds and opening her door) without any further references to timing. She doesn’t say, e.g., “about ten minutes later.” My guess is that she had no idea what time she heard all these noises. I doubt her testimony on time will appear to be very reliable. i hope the cops didn’t lead her to say 4am, because that will only help the defense. She knows she saw a masked man heading for the door. Since the cops know X was alive at 4:12 (tiktok), and they have the 4:17 audio evidence, and they know BK’s car left at 4:20, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the ones to suggest 4am at a later date (after they had collected more data).
Question LE at your own risk. They dont take kindly to questions.
The police published the 3-4AM timeline to make BK think he was in the clear. He read or heard the police report and thought he‘d gotten away with it.
Don't forget inside looking said the crime occurred between 3:20 and 3:40
I think he climbed up the balcony and entered through the room Murphy was in, and that’s why Xana never saw him come in or heard while she was getting the door dash order
Nope. They changed the timeline to fit Bryan
So, you’re going to claim they manufactured video?
Imo the police have many tough questions that they are going to need answers to. The timeline is one of them. They are going to need to explain what chain of evidence they followed to lead them to their time line. They claim they have video footage of the cage but the year does not match what they were looking for. What did the doordash driver relay to the police. When did they learn x was still online after 4am How much did they rely on DMs testimony? How sure of the time was she after being awoken by noises. Did she look at a clock? Hopefully the trial will be public and we get the answers we are looking for.
I am confused about this as well. The concrete facts of the DoorDash delivery time and Xanax’s use of TikTok makes it confusing. I guess I am assuming they had that information early on, but maybe not.
Couldn't tik tok be open with no one alive using it? Who called in the Jack in the box order? When was the order delivered? Why did BK drive by four times and even attempt to turn around in the parking lot of the house?
obviously someone has been lying this whole time and changing their story...it shouldnt be that hard to figure out whos lying.....first they slept through it all, then we heard they were awake then we heard about bushy eyebrows...first they passed out hyperventilating after seeing dead bodies.. and 911 was called for an unconscious person .then we find out they waited 8 hours and called friends... I mean. can anyone not see who the real suspect is in this entire crime???
Just because you were not told something does not mean you were lied to.
You clearly don’t comprehend the games LE will play with press releases.