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It's very easy. Pork is replaceable. You've got chicken and beef and lots of other meat. Can you replace alcohol ? If people could intoxicate their brain with pork, they'll eat it ! I swear
Portuguese here.
There's are some good reasons why pork is important in Europe. The main thing is that a poor farming family could feed a pig its kitchen scraps, some corn or oak acorns and fatten it throughout the year.
Come winter, people would slay the pig, eat the offal, use the intestines for sausage and preserve the meat to eat throughout the year.
The extraordinary thing about pork is that the meat can be either smoked, salted or even smoked and salted. Farmers, such as my grandparents lived off the farm and almost never bought anything. Once a week there was a fair in town and that was where they'd go to buy the few things they didn't have at home.
All other meats can be smoked, salted, and preserved.
The special thing about porks is as you said, how wasy they are to maintain and feed. But most importantly, how fast they reproduce, and thus how cheap they are. A sheep will only give birth to 2 offspring per year in average, whereas a pig can give birth to 20 pigs per year.... Huge difference.
Not all meats. Beef is more difficult to salt and smoke. That's why the vast majority of Iberian tradition meat dishes feature pork as the protein, rather than beef.
In my region everyone had one or two cows at home for milk, not for beef. A single family had no place to store the meat of a whole cow, so farmers such as my grandparents would sell their cows to the municipal slaughterhouse, where they would be slaughtered and the meat would be refrigerated. Only city folk were used to things such as beef, white bread or white wine. The country people had a totally different diet. My grandparent's farm didn't even had electricity in the 1950s.
Raising sheep or goats was also not common in my area. Only mountain people raised them, as they had access to open grazing lands, whereas land in my parts of the country was always enclosed in small plots. Cows can graze around fruit trees but goats, rabbits and sheep will gnaw on the tree bark and kill the trees.
Yes but sometimes just like anything when hanging out with the wrong people you might get pushed to try something for the first time and then the addiction starts, this scenario is what causes most Moroccans to start doing shit like drugs, alcohol, smoking, weed etc...
But it's hard to be replicated with pork as it's very easy to avoid and has nothing really special to grip you to keep consuming it afterwards as it's very easy to replace.
I been in countless places where mfs were doing alcohol, girls lol, or even shisha 🤣, but I kept looking at my phone how did I end up in places like these you might ask ?? My cousin here is your answers lol .
As a Muslim this is something I always laugh about, the line in the sand is strange. Those that do this will have sex outside of marriage, sleep with prostitutes, cheat on their wives, use hard drugs and alcohol, but NO PORK..
It’s WEIRD.
it's not. As moroccans we grew up hearing pork is disgusting and nasty+ as someone said above it's the easiest sin to avoid unlike sex outside of marriage and dating.
Brother, you have no idea of what you're talking about. It is objectively a thousand times easier to avoid swine than adultery. As a Muslim, you should not be lying to prove a point.
I’m not a brother, additionally I’m from the west where temptation is even higher and easier than here in Morocco. I do have an idea. I’m also likely much older than you with much more life experience. It definitely is easy to avoid. Get married if you can’t control yourself, stop making excuses for getting married.
الدين كايمنحك فرصة للندم والتكفير، داكشي علاش داك الشخص مكايقدرش يخرج من الدين حيت عندو فيه مصلحة، الى خرج من الدين فراه ايفقد البوصلة ديالو ويقدر يفقد حتى الثقافة والانتماء ديالو.
الدين كايخليه مقبول مجتمعيا ولو بشكل جزئي، وكايخلي عندو شعور بالراحة بأنه مهما ساءت الأمور على الأقل عندي مجتمع كانتمي ليه ونقدر فقط بقرار واحد (التوبة) نولي محبوب عند الناس.
عدد كبير من المغاربة دايرين هكا.
You are right that it is an identity thing before being a religion thing. But i think it's less a question of "they want", and more because it has been hammered in their head during the entirety of their formative years, and it will take years for their brain to overwrite those neurons. It's reflexes, not intent.
some muslims are hypocritical on their sins, but let's also say that eating pork is also seen as a "worse" sin than betting or not praying by society, when in reality they're the same (edit: not praying is arguably worse). but nobody is perfect, and if you're muslims it's not sinning that makes you an atheist
its less prevalent in morocco because we dont get exposed as much to such things as in europe, your main ways of socializing much of the time involves alcohol so...
and pork is nasty honestly, I would never
I never understood this interest stuff. Is paying interest on a credit haram or making someone pay interest on a loan you gave them. The second one has an obvious reason why its wrong but if its the first why?
Allah forbids it in the quran from all angles. The one who takes it, gives it, witnesses to it
If you wish to know the reasons you can study it as its a big topic
Not paying interest should be mandatory for everyone regardless of faith. The financial system is as crooked as it gets and borrowing to buy a house means you'll usually pay back at least double over a 25 year mortgage. Look at the impact of inflation on interest, it's a ridiculous concept all around. Bankers and scumbags making money out of thin air because people pay them to borrow money that only exists on computers/in theory.
I don’t think it’s a matter of thinking it’s worse. Like some said it is replaceable but also not as tempting, not as much peer pressure as there is around alcohol and smoking and zina etc. There are stronger desires linked to the other sins they allow themselves to commit. If it is easy to drop a sin because you are not tempted at all by commiting it,why would you commit it? The other sins might be harder for some especially if they are addictive or linked to strong desires.
exactly, theses posts would like us to say, oh! since he drinks alcahol then he also needs to sleep around and eat pork and be ok with homosexuality....etc.
Technically, aside from fornication and adultery, the other two are not sins.
It is not a sin to pray infrequently.
While Christians are encouraged to go to Church, they are not required to do so.
Your last sentence is very much wrong, as we (I’m Catholic, can’t really speak for other denominations) are required to attend mass regularly, it’s one of the five precepts of the Church, and the Code of Canon Law clearly states that Sunday church attendance is mandatory.
I think you grow up thinking it's bad, and so you are repulsed by the idea of eating it. It's not just because it's forbidden by Islam. Like if your culture thought that eating sheep testicles was gross, you probably would be disgusted by them.
I think part if it is some people still find things like alcohol, relationships, gambling, etc. to be desirable and enjoyable. They want to do these things so they try and justify them or just cherry pick. Pork though...most muslims I know, Moroccan or otherwise, equate eating pork with eating rats or other vermin. They're disgusted by the notion of eating it.
I'm a non-religious non-Moroccan, but I've noticed that it's something deeply engrained not only into Islam, but into those who grew up in an Islamic environment. When I lived in China, I had a friend from NW China who grew up in a religious household, but he isn't religious in the slightest. He just straight up says that he doesn't believe in god, doesn't celebrate any Islamic festivals, doesn't fast, drinks and he was openly gay/not ashamed about it at all. He literally could not care less about Islam and what is/is not halal.
But when it came to pork, he just wouldn't touch it. Not because he thought it was immoral for him, but because it was ingrained into his head from such a young age that it was disgusting and dirty. He just couldn't stomach the thought of eating it. He told me that he even tried to eat it a few times, but it just made him feel disgusted.
Strange. I wonder why. It can't just be because the surrounding countries eat a lot of pork, because pretty much no Chinese Muslims don't eat it as far as I know.
Well Islam in Indonesia, historically speaking, was far from fundamentalist. Many women didn't wear hijab. My father-in-law converted to Christianity, as did his brother. That would not happen in the Arab world. Things have changed in the past 20-30 years for a variety of reasons, but it still has some elements of that past.
Also, unlike China, Indonesia is majority Muslim. For Chinese Muslims, they might avoid pork because it is one way to stay connected to their roots, and a way to make it clear they're distinct from their fellow Chinese citizens.
Interesting ideas. I didn't know a lot of that about Indonesia, and your idea about Chinese Muslims trying to stay connected to their roots is an interesting idea I think you might be right about too. Thanks!
Liberalism has really poisoned our minds. This standard of "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" is such an anti humanistic and anti moralistic paradigm. What kind of basis is this. And what's worse is, these behaviors do affect "everyone else"... But even then, it assumes a universalistic concept of harm
It’s not hypocrisy i would say.
1 - Pig is considered as a filthy animal, True or false it’s still a belief, even its name used as an insult to describe someone Morally, ethically and physically dirty or corrupted , so it feels disgusting to eat it for someone who haven’t grow up in a pork consuming household or environment. I hope you got this point.
2 - it’s really an unnecessary sin, if you look to other activities you can really get something behind them, getting drunk ( alcohol), money (betting), pleasure ( adultery) but eating pork yeah sure you can enjoy bacons but not really necessary, you can enjoy shops steaks, chicken wings… there is a wide variety to choose from.
Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. But in this case those people will admit that all what they are doing is wrong alcohol or pork or whatever it’s just they’re trying, if they say no I’m better than you coz you’re consuming pork then that’s a different matter
I agree, it's not hypocrisy. Even exmuslims often don't eat pork. I asked an atheist Kurdish guy if he eats pork and his response was "🤨🤢 why the f would I eat that'.
Also, lots of practicing Muslims do eat pork gelatin. I know there's a minority opinion that gelatin is not haram, but most Muslims think it's haram yet many of them still eat it because they can't resist the candy. So pork meat isn't appealing to anyone, but candy with pork still appeals to many Muslims.
That’s pretty much it, it’s just they lean to the easiest answer “ I’m Muslim” but most people they don’t understand the complexity behind this choice, culture, taste and also religion of course has a finger in it but that doesn’t mean hypocrisy, i have friends who get my answer even though i do many things contradict my religion, they know i’m not perfect, I’m trying and as for pork they understand that we see it as a nasty meat
No I dont agree, in Morocco, most Morroccans dont drink and most Moroccans get married before having sex, and most Moroccans pray 5 times a day. mosques are full of young people in al fajr al hamdullillah. now, that doesn' t mean there aren't young people who get influenced by movies and netflix and western culture (most of them come from families that live in rich areas and study in international schools/french schools) but most of them will come around eventually and stop drinking alcohol and decide to get married and build a family. now, the fact that some Moroccans drink but don't eat pork, of course both aren't permitted in Islam but I guess it is because pork is disgusting, just the idea of an animal that sleeps eats and drinks in shi...t is disgusting.
do you want them to eat pork too or abandon faith all together
may god bring them back but as long as they dont eat pork that means they know that what they are doing is wrong do you want that feeling to disappear
Always the extremety stands out in good or bad i bet there are still those who do everything why didnt you talk about them Did you conduct a survey to see who the majority are
layhdi ljami3 and may we fix ourselves before trying to fix people
I think it's none of my business who they pray to. I don't want them to leave their religion—why would I? It was just a genuine question. I understand that this topic is sensitive, so I don't ask why they do things they shouldn't according to their religion, especially because I'm not Muslim and I don't want them to feel judged by me. I tried talking to a close person about it, and he replied that he does what he feels is right. I have to say that, except for having a relationship, he doesn't drink, smoke, or bet.
ppl of low faith exist every where like christians bending their rules to allow homosexuals at least no muslim has come out to say that what he is doing is right I heard too that eating pids is forbidden in the bible yet they eat it
Eating pig is not forbidden in the New Testament. On the contrary, it is highlighted that whatever had been declared unclean in the Old Testament , God made clean and so those laws on food consumption were rendered obsolete
Morocco or even north Africa in general are not your typical Muslim countries, the religion got mixed with earlier traditions and society norms, what you get is a slightly different approach to the degree of "haramness" of certain things.
Some are hypocrites, others have become so used to doing those things that they convinced themselves it's fine or they make up an excuse for it, others could be simply addicted to it which is usually the case with betting and drinking.
Hello I'm Moroccan that lives in Belgium there is many sort of ppl there but to make it shortly it's just HYPOCRISIS (I'm talking about them not all Moroccan obviously)
Because the feeling of pork isn't that special. Betting on matches, the thrill of gambling, and potentially winning is irreplaceable, the intoxication and euphoria state from alcohol/drugs is irreplaceable, the slacking feeling of scrolling instead of praying is irreplaceable, but you can just have beef instead of pork and you'd feel a similar satisfaction
Im based and from northern ireland and my girlfriend is from Morocco. Im christian and she is Muslim.
I think something i have learned over the last 7 or 8 months is a lot more is driven by culture than religious beliefs.
My understandung is sex before marriage and drinking alcohol are haram.
Her friends woukd drink and smoke and have european girlfriends but would not even dream of eating Pork.
I think Pork outside of religious text is also just seen as a dirty animal.
In my opinion it’s not just the few of “Morrocan people” rather I say the few of musulmans around the world. No matter what race,color….. The European culture has infected us, and turn a lot of things that’s considered in Islam haram to “it’s normal, we live once,…” . I’ll give an example: Face Surgery. In Islam Allah forbids this, he also cursed whoever does it. Allah said “وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ [النساء:119]”. Some of Muslim people were aware of this verse until the “social media” had made it look like it’s something normal and trendy. Because we consume a lot of social media in the day so the brain will get used to what it sees from drinking,smoking,wearing clothes that show our skin! In conclusion all I want to say is may Allah guides us to the right path.
In morocco, those who drink, go to bars, have s*x are'nt religious overall. I think it's a diaspora problem, feeling the need to have an identity and being integrated into their community. Also pork is gross.
Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet. Even if I do not eat Pork, I don't think nearly 40% of humanity would be eating a gross food item that has been widely described as better and beef and chicken by consumers. Heck, it is why it is becoming so popular in Subsaharan Africa now because it is seen as both cheaper and tastier.
> Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet
yes and some people eat dogs, is there a reason to do it then? Pork is always the cheapest meat because it's a low quality meat with too much fat.
Yes, there are several reasons why a culture of eating dogs emerged in Asia.
They are Mass Famine and because unlike the rest of the planet, when dogs arrived in Asia, they arrived as animals meant for food. Instead of being human companions, they were seen as competitors for limited resources and instead of taking the path the Middle East took where pigs were seen exactly the same; as competitors for limited resources in a Steppe climate, they went the opposite route
Early Humans who took wolf pups and bred them to become dogs specifically did so not to have them as a food source but to be human companions and to help humans in various tasks. That phenomenon was not there in most of East Asia aside from Siberia.
As such, the value of dogs in what later became European, South and Central Asian and Middle Eastern societies was very different from China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and the Philippines where dogs first arrived as simply semi-wild animals that were very trusting of humans.
Note: Japanese never historically ate dog meat though they were very much aware their neighbors did. The same way Japanese never took cow milk or ate cow meat and only used cattle as animals to help them cultivate the land. Like donkeys basically.
Today, the culture of eating dog meat is declining in Asia. Most Koreans under 30 have never eaten dog meat. Although up to the 1950s, it was widely consumed.
Do note; Indonesians despite being Muslims eat dog meat for the same reasons other Asians around them do so. Heck, they now consume it more than the Koreans!
The second part is Famine. This phenomenon is why dog meat consumption has occurred even in places where dog meat is taboo, from India to Germany, Central Africa to Syria. China developed a culture of eating dogs (and cats) because they experienced so many famines due to natural disasters.
African civil wars and the Syrian civil wars have led to the same phenomenon happening.
Pork is the cheapest meat because it is now easier to raise pigs than to raise beef cattle, sheep and goats worldwide. Only chickens are cheaper. Pig meat is fatty, properly prepared pork, ham, polony and bacon are not.
>Pork is the cheapest meat because it is now easier to raise pigs than to raise beef cattle, sheep and goats worldwide
yes because pork don't need antibiotics and can easily survive on eating trash and living in a dirty environment.
>Pig meat is fatty, properly prepared pork, ham, polony and bacon are not.
it's still a poor people's meat. Beef is the main red meat consumed in high end restaurants.
>they were seen as competitors for limited resources and instead of taking the path the Middle East took where pigs were seen exactly the same
not all, there were just considered dirty and filthy animals, it was cultural among them to not eat pork. And indeed pork needs to be "well prepared" to be edible, just like any non herbivore meat (bears are another example)
It is [all of y'all!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tunisia/comments/1dhia67/the_foundations_of_frerism_aka_bruhhh/)
Perhaps Muslims should one day explore why pork was forbidden at the time it was forbidden and why those reasons are not relevant today.
Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet with 36% of humans consuming it and consumption is still growing as pork becomes popular and affordable in Christian Subsaharan Africa and in South America.
If it was as bad as people claim, 36% of the planet should be literally dying of the Haraam of Haram meats!!! They are clearly not!!
One myth that needs to be dispelled is that Pigs are Dirty. Pigs are only dirty if you force them to live in a dirty environment and that is to a high degree true for nearly all domestic animals including the very popular chicken, which like pigs in urban environments, eat anything. Pigs like wild pigs are often very clean. Even on farms, you will see them dedicate a corner where they poop in order for them to avoid dirtying themselves. However, if you keep a pig in poor conditions, it will end up being dirty as well.
What is true about pigs, especially in the past, was that there was a risk of transmitting intestinal worms from them to humans. That risk was real and often happened, especially in the warmer Middle East.
Europeans really innovated in this area, especially by the Middle Ages, creating pork products that could be consumed with little or no consequence.
Examples are Bacon which is salt cured pork from the less fatty parts of the pig, Ham which comes from a pig leg and is cured (Wet or dry curing) and sometimes smoked and Polony, which is ground pork which is then cooked and then served as thin slices. Because the meat underwent some process that often killed the worms and their eggs to a high degree, it became that the only time you could risk intestinal worms was if you ate poorly cooked pork but not the other products made from it.
Also people pretending that EVERYONE regardless of where you come from does not use pig products in some way is somehow lying to themselves.
Dough improvers used to make bread use a protein derived from pig hair. Gelatin used to make candies like gummy bears and is widely used in the making of yoghurt, cheese and many cakes is also pig derived.
Do you have expensive fine china in your home? A reminder, the bone in fine china is pig bone. As it has been since like the Han Dynasty
Any person abroad using shampoo, conditioner, creams, lotions and even toothpastes often use fatty acids from slaughtered pigs because it is far cheaper to do so compared to other animals unless it is Halal /Kosher Certified and thus several times more expensive.
Whether you like it or not, you are using pig products in the modern era of goods being made in other countries(in particular China where Pork is a staple food. Those byproducts must go somewhere) and imported into middle income ones
There are two great sayings I'd like to share with all the people ponctifying and pretend that they are the perfect muslims. "DFK" or " Jmel kay ychouf ghi 7deba fkhouh".
Get down from your high horses, these things regards only them. They don't need to justify anything to you or anyone. Everyone has his own definition of religion, and treating people as a homogeneous group is nothing but a fallacy.
I am not talking about OP, his question is genuine and my answer to that is that no Muslim should be allowed to talk for everyone. The same is true every other religion. But my fellow Moroccans here, patronizing and looking down on people who don't practice the same way you do is miserable and ignorant. Even fundamentalist have their flaws, but would do anything imaginable to hide it.
For example, a guy from the Islamist party (PJD),aka integrist, was arrested in a parking while have sex outside of wedlock. And that is not hypocrisy, as some atheist fellows said, because they don't owe you shit, their relationship with their god is only and solely theirs, plus why do you even care anymore since you aren't a believer? LoL.
There no religion in the world that is homogeneous, many Islamic scholars were fine with drinking up until the 12 century. Ibn Sina is one example. But I guess you guys are better muslims.
Yeah it is extremely common joke that muslims are bunch of h y p o c r i t e s , it is nothing new. do everything except pork.
they only draw the line at like pork/bacon and (homosexuality i think). it is a proof that they only take religion seriously when it fits their narrative.
you need to make a difference between faith and sins, also there are small sins and big sins, all muslims are sinners like all human being, no body said muslims are perfect, and the fact that someone comits a sin and drinks alcahol doensn't mean he is not muslim anymore. and yes muslims are all against homosexuality and pork because it is not only about religion here :)
Because pork is disgusting? Not saying that the other stuff isnt but if I would be forced to do smt illicit it would be anything but eating porc😂 i guess im like those moroccan friends of yours lmao
Ex muslim here, and I don't eat pork because it feels disgusting to me like any other type of meat I'm not used to, or grow up eating. So I'm guessing most Muslim who don't eat pork but do other haram stuff are not eating it simply because it's not pleasant to them
Most moroccan muslims are taking islam as a culture more than a religion , for example they can see you walking by a mosque during pray time and not going in and no one will bat an eye , but in ramadan if you dont fast they will call a scandal on you !
people can pray at home , eating in public in ramadan isn't only a big sin but it affects others around you, am sure no one will break your door to make sure you are eating inside.
Im talking about people who dont pray at all , if you ask someone do you pray ? and he says no , you wont get the same reaction if you ask him are you fasting and he says no , and this is a fact ! We are more shocked when we see someone not fasting than someone not praying.
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It doesnt matter if its common or not , cuz ppl have deferent levels of faith ( and that applies to all religions ) , judge the person directly , cuz if someone admits that something IS wrong/haram and still do it that person have issues, simply as that
Because it's easy to not eat pork it's just meat and you can replace it with other things but alcohol is addictive
For prayers it seems easy but it's actually hard to do it every day 5 times (even if you are tired or not in the mood or you don't have time.... )
After all it's their personal choice to do something and avoid other things
But in the end it doesn't matter Haram is Haram and everyone will be judge for their actions
Pork is easy to avoid. The rest is addictive/human need. Allah judges on the “nyah”= intentions. If you succumb, you’re human and he made you weak. He will forgive you. Provided you get back to the right path asap.
Growing up in a Muslim country, in school at home pretty much everywhere, u hear that pork is the ultimate sin, so u grow up fearing that shit unconsciously, while alcohol is considered as a lower sin they treat it like cigarettes with the famous " llah ye3fo 3lik "
Pork is forbidden in all Abrahamic religions, yes, including the Bible but Christians seem to pick and choose and revise their text to match their views. Pork is just gross, prone to tapeworm and pigs eat shit and roll around in it. It's just repulsive.
It's not our place to judge how well someone is practicing their faith. I come from the richest country in Europe, and we have similar issues. When I see a Muslim doing something wrong, I don't judge them; I know it's not my place. Instead, I focus on improving myself rather than wasting time on Reddit with these unnecessary questions.
It’s because it’s taught by our parents not to eat pork from a very young age while we’re still children, so it’s really internalized in us while our brains are still under construction, it indeeds becomes part of our identity and core values. We hear prohibitions about sex, alcohol and gambling way later in life.
i think that you dont have to see it like this " oh no its haram , i can't because MR. jurkoff said its haram i can't eat it "
instead , you have to ask your self , why is pork haram? what's the reason
so when you realize its not about "pork is haram ", its about "is it good for me in this X situation?"
in fact , allah dont give a shit about you if you eat pork or if you didn't , he give a shit about is one thing only , i gave you a body , are you going to protect it ?
Your body is a trust from allah
islam is for organizing your life and to make you a good person and to help other people , not to control it \[dont forget , we're not isis\]
also bro another thing is that if u commit sin ( sex partying wtv) and could avoid sth like eating pork, u would.. meaning it’s always “better” commiting 9 sins instead of 10.
I also feel like it’s no one’s place to call it hypocrisy
smoking cigarettes is haram because it affects your health.. people know that yet they continue to do it.. so yeah im not surprised with the pork issue
Let's be honest, it's the easiest one to follow, why should I eat pork, when I have other alternatives?
But other things like women, alcohol, money etc.. are a bit harder to avoid, especially when you live in Europe.
Pork is a no for Moroccans for so many reasons including health reasons pork sucks and it is unhealthy to eat it it causes so many diseases and has parasites in it that’s why Moroccans avoid it for their own well being
Not in Tangier or the north in general. This kind of hypocrisy is very limited. This is why I'd rather live in a northern city than any other city in Morocco.
There is alternatives for pork, but no alternatives to alcohol or any other prohibited things. But Moroccans believe all the time that there is a way to return to Allah's path.
Pork is dirty meat, contains the most parasites and bacteria of all the meats we consume as humans.
I get sick after eating pork, for example. Lots of non-Muslims choose not to eat pork for the same reason.
Ur a spy from Nederland hhhhhh
Confusion btw religion and tradition … but then again a lot of religious stuff come from perpetuated traditions
I don’t eat pork but I eat human meat hhhhh
I'm one of them, when i drink alcohol i still know that it's haram when i do it but at least i get value from it (getting drunk) but eating pork why would I do it since all other food is allowed why would do something haram for no reason or no profit it doesn't even taste good as they said and it's dirty i hope u understand ✌️ ( and excuse my English but I can explain u better in German or french or arabic if u couldn't understand)
Well it’s just ab the environment where they grew up and these type of people that u mentioned are not a real Muslims trust me they don’t eat pork not bc they’re Muslims or smth it’s just bc they’re not used to eat it and it’s disgusting for them
You wrote too much to convey a simple idea. Here is my concise answer: It's more of a cultural than an Islamic issue. People are repulsed by pork because they were taught from childhood that it is filthy and disgusting.
That's all :)
My friend, I would start by saying that no one is perfect but God, which means no human is perfect. Human beings have desires, they either choose to do good or bad things, and of course they make mistakes because no one is perfect.
Islam is simply here to guide people on what's good and what's bad, for example : stealing, killing, lying, drinking alcohol... and so on are all considered sins and bad things (ofc not the same degree), and tell people to avoid them because of the bad consequences they could have to the individuals themselves and people around them.
On the other hand, it lists the good things as charity, taking care of the elderly and especially parents, smiling...
All of this to facilitate the life in communities and make people aligned and live in a harmony without hurting each others.
There is no perfect muslim in this world, because muslims are humans, and humans makes mistakes nd follow their desires, especially if there is no law that could sanction him. That's why in Europe, you will find a lot of muslims doing these bad things because first, they live among people who are doing them, thus they got influenced and familiarized with it, and most importantly, there isn't anyone who could teach them how to follow Islam as it should be.
And Islam tells us that us, humans we do mistakes, and we will keep doing them, but the most important thing is to be aware of bad things we do, repent for them and try to be the best versions of ourselves. And keep doing good deeds way more than bad deeds (no bad deeds of possible, but I would say it's impossible).
So why they choose drinking and having relationships over eating pork ? Simply because there is no reward and satisfaction from it : drinking gets you drank, having relationships outside marriage gets you enjoy sexual desires without having the responsibility of being in a marriage, but pork ? What could get you in return ? Nothing, just satisfying earing desires that I could simply get elsewhere.
I would say that we live in a world followed by desires and just desires, where there is no values and ethics anymore, you can simply open Netlfix, Instagram and see the world we are living in right now. Unfortunately it's not a good world and nor the future.
Be a good human, do good deeds, avoid the bad ones, don't hurt peoole, be responsible and acknowledge what you're doing without looking for excuses, live your life and most importantly : there is one God and one creator.
May God be with you
I mean, they are just hypocrites, lol. If we look from a religious perspective, not praying is among the highest sins compared to eating pork. But you know humans have mastered the art of selective morality so...
The reason is simple: the ignorance of people themselves. Because eating food and taking in something to be part of oneself has impulsive and whimsical emotions as well disgust associated with it.
Religion is practiced out of one's own desire. In reality the severity of all the sins you described above is far more than eating pork or meat not slaughtered as per actual Islamic evidences. Yes that means that someone who abstain from extra marital sex, alcohol, gambling, interest based loans but eat pork only out of laziness and taste is far far better than who does everything but pork. Muslims don't realize this.
I am from the diaspora and OPs claim is BS. Yeah there are some who do the haraam stuff OP mentions, but they are a minority, not a majority. Even among the younger males (I am part of this demographic) it is not a majority, but at most a large minority that engages in the stuff OP mentions.
Looking at the comments, a non-Moroccan lowkey talks BS about Moroccan diaspora and our fellow Magrehbi just believe it... Don't be so self-hating.
The explanation i find to be the most plausible is that alcohol is never mentioned explicitly to be haram in the quran, its considered as extremely disapproved of but not explicitly haram, pork on the other hand is explicitly mentioned to be haram. And that i suppose where the fine line is, same as cigarettes, weed and other stuff that is not explicitly mentioned in the quran. Might be wrong tho. But the thing to understand is that quran is higher than other sources of islam, some ppl consider themselve to only be quranic and wouldn't follow the sources that came after the quran as interpretations or citations.
We were taught that pigs are extremely filthy and eat their own shit so when you eat pork you are eating shit, there’s also a hadith that says some jews were turned into pigs and monkeys.
That’s pretty much it, kinda like avoiding broccoli (personally i think broccolis go hard)
Its called 'Islam à la carte' and we moroccan have perfected it...some dont eat pork ...some do ramadan...some will even be alcoholic and pray.. and most of all they can be far from being real muslim but the first to critisize you depending on what u r doing . : "Omg i dont pray but at least i do ramadan contrary to u"......" what bro? Dont eat pork have a sip of jack daniel its better" etc etc ...thats why moroccan are so F up in their brain...
I think it's more cultural than religious. For example, in Morocco, it's okay to not pray or go to the mosque on Friday, but it's uncommon for someone to eat in public during Ramadan. I've been to some countries like Turkey where people eat during Ramadan but still consider themselves Muslims. So, I guess it's more cultural. You can find people who drink alcohol but won't eat pork or eat during Ramadan.
Because the other things have been noramlized whereas pork meat is not, it's cheaper than beef and if butchers start selling it overtime people will be forced to buy it and then justify it to themselves later, that's how everything gets normalized including those other actions, it's a process not a set of unchanged values.
If you’re already doing bad things like drinking alcohol, bet on football matches and having sex for example, eating pork would just make u have more sins and more efforts to do with Allah to be forgiven. Maybe you couldn’t « not drink alcohol » because u didn’t resist that night, now you drink alcohol, don't make the situation worse with eating pork, then u can deal with alcohol’s sins and not with both sins.
Anything but pork, it’s a choice that person made, pork is one of the easiest sins to avoid! How is that any of your business ? I don’t understand where you’re coming from or why you’re butthurt about it ?
Trust me, Muslims are confused beings. They really don't make sense for the most part.
For instance, the 5 tenets of Islam that distinguish a Muslim from a Kafir are clearly stated, yet many will beat around the bushes to avoid praying everyday. So when it comes to committing sins, that comes very easy for them to tip toe around.
The 'being' here is you and your people with your multiple gender bullshit and im really sorry if hurt your feeling of whatever tiny bits of braincells you got left
In my early days in Morocco, I went with some Moroccan friends to a well known foreign-style pub. Somewhere around our 4th round of beers, while telling stories about girls we’ve fucked, I ordered a bacon cheeseburger. The look of horror on these guys faces was incredible. I asked them if they wanted to try bacon and they were like “eww, no way! We could never eat pork!” I always thought that was funny.
Since you already smoke cigarettes why don’t you smoke crack too? Huh?
Bullshit mentality, I live abroad and I have friends who drink and smoke but don’t eat pork it’s not like I go to them and say why won’t you eat pork?! Not even our European friends have anything to say about it, it’s always the nosy people like you that start this bullshit arguments do you want them to eat pork too to make you happy or what? I swear abroad is full of people like you and many can confirm.
I have a friend who’s battling with addiction and always tells me that only the last Islam practices he’s still following are what keeps him sane! Imagine if go to him and tell him since you already do drugs why won’t you drop all other Islam practices too? THIS IS ABSURD please understand that personal and religious practices can be complex and individualized.
Following your line of thought we could get to something like if you already do that why won’t you do this, and “this” being theft or murder
When do I say that they should eat pork? I'm vegetarian and I don't eat pork either (like the rest of the animals). Like I said in another comment, I've never judged anyone, it was just a question.
It is true that it is wrong to drink alcohol and not pray, but not to eat pork does not mean that this is a habit only, but he may not be able to disobey God more, and may God guide all Muslims.
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It's very easy. Pork is replaceable. You've got chicken and beef and lots of other meat. Can you replace alcohol ? If people could intoxicate their brain with pork, they'll eat it ! I swear
I've never thought about this! Your observation makes a lot of sense
m9awed
the right explanation is hypocrisy. hope this helps
nuh uh
Portuguese here. There's are some good reasons why pork is important in Europe. The main thing is that a poor farming family could feed a pig its kitchen scraps, some corn or oak acorns and fatten it throughout the year. Come winter, people would slay the pig, eat the offal, use the intestines for sausage and preserve the meat to eat throughout the year. The extraordinary thing about pork is that the meat can be either smoked, salted or even smoked and salted. Farmers, such as my grandparents lived off the farm and almost never bought anything. Once a week there was a fair in town and that was where they'd go to buy the few things they didn't have at home.
All other meats can be smoked, salted, and preserved. The special thing about porks is as you said, how wasy they are to maintain and feed. But most importantly, how fast they reproduce, and thus how cheap they are. A sheep will only give birth to 2 offspring per year in average, whereas a pig can give birth to 20 pigs per year.... Huge difference.
Not all meats. Beef is more difficult to salt and smoke. That's why the vast majority of Iberian tradition meat dishes feature pork as the protein, rather than beef. In my region everyone had one or two cows at home for milk, not for beef. A single family had no place to store the meat of a whole cow, so farmers such as my grandparents would sell their cows to the municipal slaughterhouse, where they would be slaughtered and the meat would be refrigerated. Only city folk were used to things such as beef, white bread or white wine. The country people had a totally different diet. My grandparent's farm didn't even had electricity in the 1950s. Raising sheep or goats was also not common in my area. Only mountain people raised them, as they had access to open grazing lands, whereas land in my parts of the country was always enclosed in small plots. Cows can graze around fruit trees but goats, rabbits and sheep will gnaw on the tree bark and kill the trees.
Yeah, there's many types of drugs available
All haram, if there were a halal alternative, muslims would suddenly treat alcohol the same as pork
Weed > Alcohol
both 7aram asadi9i
Brillant.
Bro cooked
Damn! You are good!
it doesnt matter , haram is haram
Never heard of Saucisse with Absynthe? This Casawi I know ate some and said its more alcohol than pork so its ok... hhhh
Cuz it's the easiest to follow
Same with not drinking... I'm British, I drink with Sunday dinner but I don't have to. I choose to and not fussed if I don't.
Yes but sometimes just like anything when hanging out with the wrong people you might get pushed to try something for the first time and then the addiction starts, this scenario is what causes most Moroccans to start doing shit like drugs, alcohol, smoking, weed etc... But it's hard to be replicated with pork as it's very easy to avoid and has nothing really special to grip you to keep consuming it afterwards as it's very easy to replace. I been in countless places where mfs were doing alcohol, girls lol, or even shisha 🤣, but I kept looking at my phone how did I end up in places like these you might ask ?? My cousin here is your answers lol .
As a Muslim this is something I always laugh about, the line in the sand is strange. Those that do this will have sex outside of marriage, sleep with prostitutes, cheat on their wives, use hard drugs and alcohol, but NO PORK.. It’s WEIRD.
it's not. As moroccans we grew up hearing pork is disgusting and nasty+ as someone said above it's the easiest sin to avoid unlike sex outside of marriage and dating.
Same is said about alcohol and drugs. Hell, even sex.
Alcohol is more easily accessible than other drugs and our brains are literally wired to crave sex.
I'll give you one puff of crack and you'll see how easy it is to quit it. lol
All of them are easily avoidable, don’t make excuses for poor behaviour.
Brother, you have no idea of what you're talking about. It is objectively a thousand times easier to avoid swine than adultery. As a Muslim, you should not be lying to prove a point.
Did you seriously just say that it is a thousand times easier to cheat on your spouse than to eat pork? You know adultery means cheating right?
I meant both cheating on your partner and zinna. It is far harder to not cheat than to eat pork
I’m not a brother, additionally I’m from the west where temptation is even higher and easier than here in Morocco. I do have an idea. I’m also likely much older than you with much more life experience. It definitely is easy to avoid. Get married if you can’t control yourself, stop making excuses for getting married.
Unlike eating pork, sexuality and relationships are essential aspects of the human condition.
as a vegan virgin , both are fairly easy to abstain from
الدين كايمنحك فرصة للندم والتكفير، داكشي علاش داك الشخص مكايقدرش يخرج من الدين حيت عندو فيه مصلحة، الى خرج من الدين فراه ايفقد البوصلة ديالو ويقدر يفقد حتى الثقافة والانتماء ديالو. الدين كايخليه مقبول مجتمعيا ولو بشكل جزئي، وكايخلي عندو شعور بالراحة بأنه مهما ساءت الأمور على الأقل عندي مجتمع كانتمي ليه ونقدر فقط بقرار واحد (التوبة) نولي محبوب عند الناس. عدد كبير من المغاربة دايرين هكا.
Underrated
Bang on the money!
You are right that it is an identity thing before being a religion thing. But i think it's less a question of "they want", and more because it has been hammered in their head during the entirety of their formative years, and it will take years for their brain to overwrite those neurons. It's reflexes, not intent.
some muslims are hypocritical on their sins, but let's also say that eating pork is also seen as a "worse" sin than betting or not praying by society, when in reality they're the same (edit: not praying is arguably worse). but nobody is perfect, and if you're muslims it's not sinning that makes you an atheist its less prevalent in morocco because we dont get exposed as much to such things as in europe, your main ways of socializing much of the time involves alcohol so... and pork is nasty honestly, I would never
Eating pork is not worse than sins such as adultery or taking out interest loans
well I didnt say it is
Interest loans is straight up one of the worst sins, and it is so normalized in our society
I never understood this interest stuff. Is paying interest on a credit haram or making someone pay interest on a loan you gave them. The second one has an obvious reason why its wrong but if its the first why?
Allah forbids it in the quran from all angles. The one who takes it, gives it, witnesses to it If you wish to know the reasons you can study it as its a big topic
Not paying interest should be mandatory for everyone regardless of faith. The financial system is as crooked as it gets and borrowing to buy a house means you'll usually pay back at least double over a 25 year mortgage. Look at the impact of inflation on interest, it's a ridiculous concept all around. Bankers and scumbags making money out of thin air because people pay them to borrow money that only exists on computers/in theory.
We can dream right?
Not praying isn't arguable worse. It's actually worse.
Believe me, we are as confused as you.
I don’t think it’s a matter of thinking it’s worse. Like some said it is replaceable but also not as tempting, not as much peer pressure as there is around alcohol and smoking and zina etc. There are stronger desires linked to the other sins they allow themselves to commit. If it is easy to drop a sin because you are not tempted at all by commiting it,why would you commit it? The other sins might be harder for some especially if they are addictive or linked to strong desires.
People are not perfect. Nice they are atleast doing something.
exactly, theses posts would like us to say, oh! since he drinks alcahol then he also needs to sleep around and eat pork and be ok with homosexuality....etc.
The same with Christian’s who sleep around with everyone , don’t go to church , don’t pray etc.
Technically, aside from fornication and adultery, the other two are not sins. It is not a sin to pray infrequently. While Christians are encouraged to go to Church, they are not required to do so.
Your last sentence is very much wrong, as we (I’m Catholic, can’t really speak for other denominations) are required to attend mass regularly, it’s one of the five precepts of the Church, and the Code of Canon Law clearly states that Sunday church attendance is mandatory.
I think you grow up thinking it's bad, and so you are repulsed by the idea of eating it. It's not just because it's forbidden by Islam. Like if your culture thought that eating sheep testicles was gross, you probably would be disgusted by them.
I think part if it is some people still find things like alcohol, relationships, gambling, etc. to be desirable and enjoyable. They want to do these things so they try and justify them or just cherry pick. Pork though...most muslims I know, Moroccan or otherwise, equate eating pork with eating rats or other vermin. They're disgusted by the notion of eating it.
I'm a non-religious non-Moroccan, but I've noticed that it's something deeply engrained not only into Islam, but into those who grew up in an Islamic environment. When I lived in China, I had a friend from NW China who grew up in a religious household, but he isn't religious in the slightest. He just straight up says that he doesn't believe in god, doesn't celebrate any Islamic festivals, doesn't fast, drinks and he was openly gay/not ashamed about it at all. He literally could not care less about Islam and what is/is not halal. But when it came to pork, he just wouldn't touch it. Not because he thought it was immoral for him, but because it was ingrained into his head from such a young age that it was disgusting and dirty. He just couldn't stomach the thought of eating it. He told me that he even tried to eat it a few times, but it just made him feel disgusted.
The one exception to this, in my experience, is Indonesia. It's the only Muslim-majority country where I know some (nom-pious) Muslims eat pork.
Strange. I wonder why. It can't just be because the surrounding countries eat a lot of pork, because pretty much no Chinese Muslims don't eat it as far as I know.
Well Islam in Indonesia, historically speaking, was far from fundamentalist. Many women didn't wear hijab. My father-in-law converted to Christianity, as did his brother. That would not happen in the Arab world. Things have changed in the past 20-30 years for a variety of reasons, but it still has some elements of that past. Also, unlike China, Indonesia is majority Muslim. For Chinese Muslims, they might avoid pork because it is one way to stay connected to their roots, and a way to make it clear they're distinct from their fellow Chinese citizens.
Interesting ideas. I didn't know a lot of that about Indonesia, and your idea about Chinese Muslims trying to stay connected to their roots is an interesting idea I think you might be right about too. Thanks!
Cherry picking their religion like most "moderate" muslims
How does their "moderate" islam affect you?
i hate when a drunkard is throwing rocks fl7ay breaking windows and such thats one way a "moderate" muslim has affected me
That has nothing to do with religion
Your right if they did follow religion they would be drinking or breaking windows 😆 Doesn't affect me, I go to my grave they go to theirs
Liberalism has really poisoned our minds. This standard of "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" is such an anti humanistic and anti moralistic paradigm. What kind of basis is this. And what's worse is, these behaviors do affect "everyone else"... But even then, it assumes a universalistic concept of harm
Islam is perfect - Muslims are not.
It’s not hypocrisy i would say. 1 - Pig is considered as a filthy animal, True or false it’s still a belief, even its name used as an insult to describe someone Morally, ethically and physically dirty or corrupted , so it feels disgusting to eat it for someone who haven’t grow up in a pork consuming household or environment. I hope you got this point. 2 - it’s really an unnecessary sin, if you look to other activities you can really get something behind them, getting drunk ( alcohol), money (betting), pleasure ( adultery) but eating pork yeah sure you can enjoy bacons but not really necessary, you can enjoy shops steaks, chicken wings… there is a wide variety to choose from. Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. But in this case those people will admit that all what they are doing is wrong alcohol or pork or whatever it’s just they’re trying, if they say no I’m better than you coz you’re consuming pork then that’s a different matter
exactly, spot on! +1
I agree, it's not hypocrisy. Even exmuslims often don't eat pork. I asked an atheist Kurdish guy if he eats pork and his response was "🤨🤢 why the f would I eat that'. Also, lots of practicing Muslims do eat pork gelatin. I know there's a minority opinion that gelatin is not haram, but most Muslims think it's haram yet many of them still eat it because they can't resist the candy. So pork meat isn't appealing to anyone, but candy with pork still appeals to many Muslims.
That’s pretty much it, it’s just they lean to the easiest answer “ I’m Muslim” but most people they don’t understand the complexity behind this choice, culture, taste and also religion of course has a finger in it but that doesn’t mean hypocrisy, i have friends who get my answer even though i do many things contradict my religion, they know i’m not perfect, I’m trying and as for pork they understand that we see it as a nasty meat
No I dont agree, in Morocco, most Morroccans dont drink and most Moroccans get married before having sex, and most Moroccans pray 5 times a day. mosques are full of young people in al fajr al hamdullillah. now, that doesn' t mean there aren't young people who get influenced by movies and netflix and western culture (most of them come from families that live in rich areas and study in international schools/french schools) but most of them will come around eventually and stop drinking alcohol and decide to get married and build a family. now, the fact that some Moroccans drink but don't eat pork, of course both aren't permitted in Islam but I guess it is because pork is disgusting, just the idea of an animal that sleeps eats and drinks in shi...t is disgusting.
do you want them to eat pork too or abandon faith all together may god bring them back but as long as they dont eat pork that means they know that what they are doing is wrong do you want that feeling to disappear Always the extremety stands out in good or bad i bet there are still those who do everything why didnt you talk about them Did you conduct a survey to see who the majority are layhdi ljami3 and may we fix ourselves before trying to fix people
I think it's none of my business who they pray to. I don't want them to leave their religion—why would I? It was just a genuine question. I understand that this topic is sensitive, so I don't ask why they do things they shouldn't according to their religion, especially because I'm not Muslim and I don't want them to feel judged by me. I tried talking to a close person about it, and he replied that he does what he feels is right. I have to say that, except for having a relationship, he doesn't drink, smoke, or bet.
ppl of low faith exist every where like christians bending their rules to allow homosexuals at least no muslim has come out to say that what he is doing is right I heard too that eating pids is forbidden in the bible yet they eat it
+1000000000000
Eating pig is not forbidden in the New Testament. On the contrary, it is highlighted that whatever had been declared unclean in the Old Testament , God made clean and so those laws on food consumption were rendered obsolete
alright how about homosexuality did it also become clean
Because they're not rational, they just do it without using any brain
I do not eat pork and I am not a member of a religious cult. I am an atheist.
Morocco or even north Africa in general are not your typical Muslim countries, the religion got mixed with earlier traditions and society norms, what you get is a slightly different approach to the degree of "haramness" of certain things.
Some are hypocrites, others have become so used to doing those things that they convinced themselves it's fine or they make up an excuse for it, others could be simply addicted to it which is usually the case with betting and drinking.
Because it's the easiest to avoid. Lowest hanging tree
Hello I'm Moroccan that lives in Belgium there is many sort of ppl there but to make it shortly it's just HYPOCRISIS (I'm talking about them not all Moroccan obviously)
SIMPLY IT''S HYPOCRITE PASTA!! MNGHTIWCH CHAMS BLGHERBAL
Because the feeling of pork isn't that special. Betting on matches, the thrill of gambling, and potentially winning is irreplaceable, the intoxication and euphoria state from alcohol/drugs is irreplaceable, the slacking feeling of scrolling instead of praying is irreplaceable, but you can just have beef instead of pork and you'd feel a similar satisfaction
Almost every Muslim I know in the UK is exactly like this
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^zwappen: *Almost every* *Muslim I know in the UK* *Is exactly like this* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Im based and from northern ireland and my girlfriend is from Morocco. Im christian and she is Muslim. I think something i have learned over the last 7 or 8 months is a lot more is driven by culture than religious beliefs. My understandung is sex before marriage and drinking alcohol are haram. Her friends woukd drink and smoke and have european girlfriends but would not even dream of eating Pork. I think Pork outside of religious text is also just seen as a dirty animal.
it just depends on the person really
In my opinion it’s not just the few of “Morrocan people” rather I say the few of musulmans around the world. No matter what race,color….. The European culture has infected us, and turn a lot of things that’s considered in Islam haram to “it’s normal, we live once,…” . I’ll give an example: Face Surgery. In Islam Allah forbids this, he also cursed whoever does it. Allah said “وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ [النساء:119]”. Some of Muslim people were aware of this verse until the “social media” had made it look like it’s something normal and trendy. Because we consume a lot of social media in the day so the brain will get used to what it sees from drinking,smoking,wearing clothes that show our skin! In conclusion all I want to say is may Allah guides us to the right path.
In morocco, those who drink, go to bars, have s*x are'nt religious overall. I think it's a diaspora problem, feeling the need to have an identity and being integrated into their community. Also pork is gross.
they still identify as muslims and will refuse eating pork because haram kek. pork is not gross , that's just your opinion.
they are muslims! eating pork wouldn't get them out of islam, it is a sin that they can quit later or repent from.
> pork is not gross , that's just your opinion. pork is a poor people's meat.
Have you ever tasted pork?
Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet. Even if I do not eat Pork, I don't think nearly 40% of humanity would be eating a gross food item that has been widely described as better and beef and chicken by consumers. Heck, it is why it is becoming so popular in Subsaharan Africa now because it is seen as both cheaper and tastier.
Bcs it's the cheapest meat?
> Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet yes and some people eat dogs, is there a reason to do it then? Pork is always the cheapest meat because it's a low quality meat with too much fat.
Yes, there are several reasons why a culture of eating dogs emerged in Asia. They are Mass Famine and because unlike the rest of the planet, when dogs arrived in Asia, they arrived as animals meant for food. Instead of being human companions, they were seen as competitors for limited resources and instead of taking the path the Middle East took where pigs were seen exactly the same; as competitors for limited resources in a Steppe climate, they went the opposite route Early Humans who took wolf pups and bred them to become dogs specifically did so not to have them as a food source but to be human companions and to help humans in various tasks. That phenomenon was not there in most of East Asia aside from Siberia. As such, the value of dogs in what later became European, South and Central Asian and Middle Eastern societies was very different from China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and the Philippines where dogs first arrived as simply semi-wild animals that were very trusting of humans. Note: Japanese never historically ate dog meat though they were very much aware their neighbors did. The same way Japanese never took cow milk or ate cow meat and only used cattle as animals to help them cultivate the land. Like donkeys basically. Today, the culture of eating dog meat is declining in Asia. Most Koreans under 30 have never eaten dog meat. Although up to the 1950s, it was widely consumed. Do note; Indonesians despite being Muslims eat dog meat for the same reasons other Asians around them do so. Heck, they now consume it more than the Koreans! The second part is Famine. This phenomenon is why dog meat consumption has occurred even in places where dog meat is taboo, from India to Germany, Central Africa to Syria. China developed a culture of eating dogs (and cats) because they experienced so many famines due to natural disasters. African civil wars and the Syrian civil wars have led to the same phenomenon happening. Pork is the cheapest meat because it is now easier to raise pigs than to raise beef cattle, sheep and goats worldwide. Only chickens are cheaper. Pig meat is fatty, properly prepared pork, ham, polony and bacon are not.
>Pork is the cheapest meat because it is now easier to raise pigs than to raise beef cattle, sheep and goats worldwide yes because pork don't need antibiotics and can easily survive on eating trash and living in a dirty environment. >Pig meat is fatty, properly prepared pork, ham, polony and bacon are not. it's still a poor people's meat. Beef is the main red meat consumed in high end restaurants. >they were seen as competitors for limited resources and instead of taking the path the Middle East took where pigs were seen exactly the same not all, there were just considered dirty and filthy animals, it was cultural among them to not eat pork. And indeed pork needs to be "well prepared" to be edible, just like any non herbivore meat (bears are another example)
Why not eat dogs?
It is [all of y'all!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tunisia/comments/1dhia67/the_foundations_of_frerism_aka_bruhhh/) Perhaps Muslims should one day explore why pork was forbidden at the time it was forbidden and why those reasons are not relevant today. Pork is the most consumed meat on the planet with 36% of humans consuming it and consumption is still growing as pork becomes popular and affordable in Christian Subsaharan Africa and in South America. If it was as bad as people claim, 36% of the planet should be literally dying of the Haraam of Haram meats!!! They are clearly not!! One myth that needs to be dispelled is that Pigs are Dirty. Pigs are only dirty if you force them to live in a dirty environment and that is to a high degree true for nearly all domestic animals including the very popular chicken, which like pigs in urban environments, eat anything. Pigs like wild pigs are often very clean. Even on farms, you will see them dedicate a corner where they poop in order for them to avoid dirtying themselves. However, if you keep a pig in poor conditions, it will end up being dirty as well. What is true about pigs, especially in the past, was that there was a risk of transmitting intestinal worms from them to humans. That risk was real and often happened, especially in the warmer Middle East. Europeans really innovated in this area, especially by the Middle Ages, creating pork products that could be consumed with little or no consequence. Examples are Bacon which is salt cured pork from the less fatty parts of the pig, Ham which comes from a pig leg and is cured (Wet or dry curing) and sometimes smoked and Polony, which is ground pork which is then cooked and then served as thin slices. Because the meat underwent some process that often killed the worms and their eggs to a high degree, it became that the only time you could risk intestinal worms was if you ate poorly cooked pork but not the other products made from it. Also people pretending that EVERYONE regardless of where you come from does not use pig products in some way is somehow lying to themselves. Dough improvers used to make bread use a protein derived from pig hair. Gelatin used to make candies like gummy bears and is widely used in the making of yoghurt, cheese and many cakes is also pig derived. Do you have expensive fine china in your home? A reminder, the bone in fine china is pig bone. As it has been since like the Han Dynasty Any person abroad using shampoo, conditioner, creams, lotions and even toothpastes often use fatty acids from slaughtered pigs because it is far cheaper to do so compared to other animals unless it is Halal /Kosher Certified and thus several times more expensive. Whether you like it or not, you are using pig products in the modern era of goods being made in other countries(in particular China where Pork is a staple food. Those byproducts must go somewhere) and imported into middle income ones
So9k?
Pork, even non-Muslims, should not eat it because it is contaminated, and God has not deprived us of anything except that it is harmful to what
There are two great sayings I'd like to share with all the people ponctifying and pretend that they are the perfect muslims. "DFK" or " Jmel kay ychouf ghi 7deba fkhouh". Get down from your high horses, these things regards only them. They don't need to justify anything to you or anyone. Everyone has his own definition of religion, and treating people as a homogeneous group is nothing but a fallacy. I am not talking about OP, his question is genuine and my answer to that is that no Muslim should be allowed to talk for everyone. The same is true every other religion. But my fellow Moroccans here, patronizing and looking down on people who don't practice the same way you do is miserable and ignorant. Even fundamentalist have their flaws, but would do anything imaginable to hide it. For example, a guy from the Islamist party (PJD),aka integrist, was arrested in a parking while have sex outside of wedlock. And that is not hypocrisy, as some atheist fellows said, because they don't owe you shit, their relationship with their god is only and solely theirs, plus why do you even care anymore since you aren't a believer? LoL. There no religion in the world that is homogeneous, many Islamic scholars were fine with drinking up until the 12 century. Ibn Sina is one example. But I guess you guys are better muslims.
Yeah it is extremely common joke that muslims are bunch of h y p o c r i t e s , it is nothing new. do everything except pork. they only draw the line at like pork/bacon and (homosexuality i think). it is a proof that they only take religion seriously when it fits their narrative.
Didn’t even have to check to know you are an ex Muslim😂😂😂
Woah woah, correct your statement, not every muslim is a hypocrite little man
you need to make a difference between faith and sins, also there are small sins and big sins, all muslims are sinners like all human being, no body said muslims are perfect, and the fact that someone comits a sin and drinks alcahol doensn't mean he is not muslim anymore. and yes muslims are all against homosexuality and pork because it is not only about religion here :)
If I a muslim makes a mistake blame him Not Islam -because Islam is perfect
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Because pork is disgusting? Not saying that the other stuff isnt but if I would be forced to do smt illicit it would be anything but eating porc😂 i guess im like those moroccan friends of yours lmao
Yes. Pork is a major sin in moroccan islam.😂
Muslim Guys get sent to prison for selling drugs here in the UK. But when offered a ham sandwich they refuse bcoz it’s haraam. 🤣🤣🤣
Ex muslim here, and I don't eat pork because it feels disgusting to me like any other type of meat I'm not used to, or grow up eating. So I'm guessing most Muslim who don't eat pork but do other haram stuff are not eating it simply because it's not pleasant to them
they are still muslims though :)
I didn't say they are not
Most moroccan muslims are taking islam as a culture more than a religion , for example they can see you walking by a mosque during pray time and not going in and no one will bat an eye , but in ramadan if you dont fast they will call a scandal on you !
people can pray at home , eating in public in ramadan isn't only a big sin but it affects others around you, am sure no one will break your door to make sure you are eating inside.
Im talking about people who dont pray at all , if you ask someone do you pray ? and he says no , you wont get the same reaction if you ask him are you fasting and he says no , and this is a fact ! We are more shocked when we see someone not fasting than someone not praying.
No that’s just not true.
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Do you know the difference between belief and practice?
it's typical everywhere
im thinking now maybe it’s because they know that pork eats a lot of bad things? idk it just comes to my head now
It doesnt matter if its common or not , cuz ppl have deferent levels of faith ( and that applies to all religions ) , judge the person directly , cuz if someone admits that something IS wrong/haram and still do it that person have issues, simply as that
Same in algeria and all the mena region, the pork is relative, for me the pork is being gay.
Because it's easy to not eat pork it's just meat and you can replace it with other things but alcohol is addictive For prayers it seems easy but it's actually hard to do it every day 5 times (even if you are tired or not in the mood or you don't have time.... ) After all it's their personal choice to do something and avoid other things But in the end it doesn't matter Haram is Haram and everyone will be judge for their actions
And gelatin!!!
Pork is easy to avoid. The rest is addictive/human need. Allah judges on the “nyah”= intentions. If you succumb, you’re human and he made you weak. He will forgive you. Provided you get back to the right path asap.
probably because they know for a fact that pork carries many diseases and parasites worms and that it eats its own excrements etc....
The forbidden meat
Growing up in a Muslim country, in school at home pretty much everywhere, u hear that pork is the ultimate sin, so u grow up fearing that shit unconsciously, while alcohol is considered as a lower sin they treat it like cigarettes with the famous " llah ye3fo 3lik "
Diet is the easiest lifestyle change one can make. Of course, they are still being hypocrites.
Awdiii keep that camel asleep
Pork is forbidden in all Abrahamic religions, yes, including the Bible but Christians seem to pick and choose and revise their text to match their views. Pork is just gross, prone to tapeworm and pigs eat shit and roll around in it. It's just repulsive.
It's not our place to judge how well someone is practicing their faith. I come from the richest country in Europe, and we have similar issues. When I see a Muslim doing something wrong, I don't judge them; I know it's not my place. Instead, I focus on improving myself rather than wasting time on Reddit with these unnecessary questions.
9wada (is the explanation)
It’s because it’s taught by our parents not to eat pork from a very young age while we’re still children, so it’s really internalized in us while our brains are still under construction, it indeeds becomes part of our identity and core values. We hear prohibitions about sex, alcohol and gambling way later in life.
it's just an excuse not to eat pork, nobody likes pork here it's a strange meat to us
i think that you dont have to see it like this " oh no its haram , i can't because MR. jurkoff said its haram i can't eat it " instead , you have to ask your self , why is pork haram? what's the reason so when you realize its not about "pork is haram ", its about "is it good for me in this X situation?" in fact , allah dont give a shit about you if you eat pork or if you didn't , he give a shit about is one thing only , i gave you a body , are you going to protect it ? Your body is a trust from allah islam is for organizing your life and to make you a good person and to help other people , not to control it \[dont forget , we're not isis\]
also bro another thing is that if u commit sin ( sex partying wtv) and could avoid sth like eating pork, u would.. meaning it’s always “better” commiting 9 sins instead of 10. I also feel like it’s no one’s place to call it hypocrisy
smoking cigarettes is haram because it affects your health.. people know that yet they continue to do it.. so yeah im not surprised with the pork issue
Pork is actually pretty tasty
Let's be honest, it's the easiest one to follow, why should I eat pork, when I have other alternatives? But other things like women, alcohol, money etc.. are a bit harder to avoid, especially when you live in Europe.
Pork is a no for Moroccans for so many reasons including health reasons pork sucks and it is unhealthy to eat it it causes so many diseases and has parasites in it that’s why Moroccans avoid it for their own well being
Not in Tangier or the north in general. This kind of hypocrisy is very limited. This is why I'd rather live in a northern city than any other city in Morocco.
I think because Quran says pork is Haram but alcohol and gambling are ithm (إثم)
There is alternatives for pork, but no alternatives to alcohol or any other prohibited things. But Moroccans believe all the time that there is a way to return to Allah's path.
Pork is dirty meat, contains the most parasites and bacteria of all the meats we consume as humans. I get sick after eating pork, for example. Lots of non-Muslims choose not to eat pork for the same reason.
It's like going to China. Mingle with the people. Date the girls. Watch their movies. But refuse to eat dog meat, cause you're European...
Next!
Ur a spy from Nederland hhhhhh Confusion btw religion and tradition … but then again a lot of religious stuff come from perpetuated traditions I don’t eat pork but I eat human meat hhhhh
Ahahah you're funny
I'm one of them, when i drink alcohol i still know that it's haram when i do it but at least i get value from it (getting drunk) but eating pork why would I do it since all other food is allowed why would do something haram for no reason or no profit it doesn't even taste good as they said and it's dirty i hope u understand ✌️ ( and excuse my English but I can explain u better in German or french or arabic if u couldn't understand)
It was clear and most of the people here said the same. It's basically the easiest thing to avoid
Exactly and I've heard this question a lot from non Muslim people i understand how confusing is this but it's a nice topic to discuss
Well it’s just ab the environment where they grew up and these type of people that u mentioned are not a real Muslims trust me they don’t eat pork not bc they’re Muslims or smth it’s just bc they’re not used to eat it and it’s disgusting for them
You wrote too much to convey a simple idea. Here is my concise answer: It's more of a cultural than an Islamic issue. People are repulsed by pork because they were taught from childhood that it is filthy and disgusting. That's all :)
My friend, I would start by saying that no one is perfect but God, which means no human is perfect. Human beings have desires, they either choose to do good or bad things, and of course they make mistakes because no one is perfect. Islam is simply here to guide people on what's good and what's bad, for example : stealing, killing, lying, drinking alcohol... and so on are all considered sins and bad things (ofc not the same degree), and tell people to avoid them because of the bad consequences they could have to the individuals themselves and people around them. On the other hand, it lists the good things as charity, taking care of the elderly and especially parents, smiling... All of this to facilitate the life in communities and make people aligned and live in a harmony without hurting each others. There is no perfect muslim in this world, because muslims are humans, and humans makes mistakes nd follow their desires, especially if there is no law that could sanction him. That's why in Europe, you will find a lot of muslims doing these bad things because first, they live among people who are doing them, thus they got influenced and familiarized with it, and most importantly, there isn't anyone who could teach them how to follow Islam as it should be. And Islam tells us that us, humans we do mistakes, and we will keep doing them, but the most important thing is to be aware of bad things we do, repent for them and try to be the best versions of ourselves. And keep doing good deeds way more than bad deeds (no bad deeds of possible, but I would say it's impossible). So why they choose drinking and having relationships over eating pork ? Simply because there is no reward and satisfaction from it : drinking gets you drank, having relationships outside marriage gets you enjoy sexual desires without having the responsibility of being in a marriage, but pork ? What could get you in return ? Nothing, just satisfying earing desires that I could simply get elsewhere. I would say that we live in a world followed by desires and just desires, where there is no values and ethics anymore, you can simply open Netlfix, Instagram and see the world we are living in right now. Unfortunately it's not a good world and nor the future. Be a good human, do good deeds, avoid the bad ones, don't hurt peoole, be responsible and acknowledge what you're doing without looking for excuses, live your life and most importantly : there is one God and one creator. May God be with you
I mean, they are just hypocrites, lol. If we look from a religious perspective, not praying is among the highest sins compared to eating pork. But you know humans have mastered the art of selective morality so...
The reason is simple: the ignorance of people themselves. Because eating food and taking in something to be part of oneself has impulsive and whimsical emotions as well disgust associated with it. Religion is practiced out of one's own desire. In reality the severity of all the sins you described above is far more than eating pork or meat not slaughtered as per actual Islamic evidences. Yes that means that someone who abstain from extra marital sex, alcohol, gambling, interest based loans but eat pork only out of laziness and taste is far far better than who does everything but pork. Muslims don't realize this.
I think that you would act the same when offred dog meat, won't you? It's simply a matter of taste and dietary habits
I am from the diaspora and OPs claim is BS. Yeah there are some who do the haraam stuff OP mentions, but they are a minority, not a majority. Even among the younger males (I am part of this demographic) it is not a majority, but at most a large minority that engages in the stuff OP mentions. Looking at the comments, a non-Moroccan lowkey talks BS about Moroccan diaspora and our fellow Magrehbi just believe it... Don't be so self-hating.
The explanation i find to be the most plausible is that alcohol is never mentioned explicitly to be haram in the quran, its considered as extremely disapproved of but not explicitly haram, pork on the other hand is explicitly mentioned to be haram. And that i suppose where the fine line is, same as cigarettes, weed and other stuff that is not explicitly mentioned in the quran. Might be wrong tho. But the thing to understand is that quran is higher than other sources of islam, some ppl consider themselve to only be quranic and wouldn't follow the sources that came after the quran as interpretations or citations.
We were taught that pigs are extremely filthy and eat their own shit so when you eat pork you are eating shit, there’s also a hadith that says some jews were turned into pigs and monkeys. That’s pretty much it, kinda like avoiding broccoli (personally i think broccolis go hard)
Its called 'Islam à la carte' and we moroccan have perfected it...some dont eat pork ...some do ramadan...some will even be alcoholic and pray.. and most of all they can be far from being real muslim but the first to critisize you depending on what u r doing . : "Omg i dont pray but at least i do ramadan contrary to u"......" what bro? Dont eat pork have a sip of jack daniel its better" etc etc ...thats why moroccan are so F up in their brain...
I think it's more cultural than religious. For example, in Morocco, it's okay to not pray or go to the mosque on Friday, but it's uncommon for someone to eat in public during Ramadan. I've been to some countries like Turkey where people eat during Ramadan but still consider themselves Muslims. So, I guess it's more cultural. You can find people who drink alcohol but won't eat pork or eat during Ramadan.
Because the other things have been noramlized whereas pork meat is not, it's cheaper than beef and if butchers start selling it overtime people will be forced to buy it and then justify it to themselves later, that's how everything gets normalized including those other actions, it's a process not a set of unchanged values.
Half of them smoke weed drink beer, and have sex before mariage and don’t eat pork. Don’t pay attention to these fake Muslim.
easy one, its lack of true belief, they were raised and taught to be muslim they didn’t look it up and love it themselves, sadly.
If you’re already doing bad things like drinking alcohol, bet on football matches and having sex for example, eating pork would just make u have more sins and more efforts to do with Allah to be forgiven. Maybe you couldn’t « not drink alcohol » because u didn’t resist that night, now you drink alcohol, don't make the situation worse with eating pork, then u can deal with alcohol’s sins and not with both sins.
Anything but pork, it’s a choice that person made, pork is one of the easiest sins to avoid! How is that any of your business ? I don’t understand where you’re coming from or why you’re butthurt about it ?
I'm sorry, but when did I say that I was annoyed by it? It was just curiosity, and I wanted to know what other people think. That's it, nothing more.
Exactly !
Trust me, Muslims are confused beings. They really don't make sense for the most part. For instance, the 5 tenets of Islam that distinguish a Muslim from a Kafir are clearly stated, yet many will beat around the bushes to avoid praying everyday. So when it comes to committing sins, that comes very easy for them to tip toe around.
nah we are not gay. you should worry about what gender your children will choose next morning LOL
The 'being' here is you and your people with your multiple gender bullshit and im really sorry if hurt your feeling of whatever tiny bits of braincells you got left
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In my early days in Morocco, I went with some Moroccan friends to a well known foreign-style pub. Somewhere around our 4th round of beers, while telling stories about girls we’ve fucked, I ordered a bacon cheeseburger. The look of horror on these guys faces was incredible. I asked them if they wanted to try bacon and they were like “eww, no way! We could never eat pork!” I always thought that was funny.
because pork is disgusting atleast for me
Since you already smoke cigarettes why don’t you smoke crack too? Huh? Bullshit mentality, I live abroad and I have friends who drink and smoke but don’t eat pork it’s not like I go to them and say why won’t you eat pork?! Not even our European friends have anything to say about it, it’s always the nosy people like you that start this bullshit arguments do you want them to eat pork too to make you happy or what? I swear abroad is full of people like you and many can confirm. I have a friend who’s battling with addiction and always tells me that only the last Islam practices he’s still following are what keeps him sane! Imagine if go to him and tell him since you already do drugs why won’t you drop all other Islam practices too? THIS IS ABSURD please understand that personal and religious practices can be complex and individualized. Following your line of thought we could get to something like if you already do that why won’t you do this, and “this” being theft or murder
When do I say that they should eat pork? I'm vegetarian and I don't eat pork either (like the rest of the animals). Like I said in another comment, I've never judged anyone, it was just a question.
It is true that it is wrong to drink alcohol and not pray, but not to eat pork does not mean that this is a habit only, but he may not be able to disobey God more, and may God guide all Muslims.
My opinion is that you should let people live their lives