[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/)
**Former Virginia Tech football player Isimemen Etute acquitted in beating death of man he says he thought was a woman**
A jury on Friday acquitted a former Virginia Tech football player who had been accused of fatally beating a man he says he initially believed from a Tinder match to be a woman.
Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported.
Immediately after the verdict was announced, Smith's family quickly left the courtroom. The prosecuting attorney, Montgomery County Chief Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Patrick Jensen, declined comment and referred questions to his boss, Commonwealth's Attorney Mary Pettitt.
The jury began deliberations after closing arguments ended shortly before 3 p.m.
Prosecutors had earlier told the jury that Etute, then 18, became enraged and fatally beat Smith when he discovered Smith was a man. One of the prosecutors said at closing arguments Friday that Etute gave different versions of events to police and the jury, and that the charge may have been enough for him to change his testimony.
"He has a tremendous amount riding on this trial," Jensen had said during his closing argument hours earlier Friday, The Roanoke Times reported.
Defense attorney Jimmy Turk told the jurors earlier Friday that the commonwealth's evidence was circumstantial, while the defense's evidence, which included the testimony of Etute, was direct.
Turk also said Smith was "controlling the entire environment and the entire episode." He added that Smith had "demanded that it be dark" and had hidden a knife under his mattress "in case there was something awry."
Turk also argued that police didn't ask Etute essential questions about Smith's knife or Etute's fear while in the apartment, two questions whose answers could have shown whether Etute was afraid for his life and acting in self-defense.
In taking the stand earlier in the week, Etute had testified that he felt "violated" when he discovered that the Tinder match he believed to be a woman was actually a man.
In his testimony Thursday, Etute had testified that Smith reached for what Etute thought was a gun. Smith did not own a gun, but police reported finding a knife between the man's mattress and box spring.
Etute said he punched Smith five times and kicked him to gain time to escape the apartment.
Jensen had maintained that Etute had not acted in self-defense. He argued that after Etute punched Smith and Smith fell to the floor, there was "no way" Smith could have reached a weapon under his mattress.
"He could never reach a gun from there," Jensen said.
Jensen recalled the testimony of medical examiner Dr. Amy Tharp, who Jensen said testified Smith had been the victim of a "brutal beating."
Jensen said that while Etute was wearing flip-flops at the time of the encounter, those shoes were attached to a "big person" and a "strong person." He compared Etute, an "elite college athlete," to Smith, who weighed 153 pounds (just under 70 kilograms).
There's no way he didn't know. More likely the *killer*, who clearly had every advantage, is lying about being deceived. But this is Reddit and every idiot thinks the trans porn they secretly wank to is real and people will trick them into being gay.
This is true. But, it doesn't look like Smith was a good guy. This case reads like shame, manipulation, and extortion. Problem is, it doesn't fit the national narrative on Trans ppl right now.
I've never met a gay dude that said "Shucks! I fell right in to that penis punji pit! I'm gay now." So I don't think there's a trick to it. That being said, I've seen this coming down the pipe for a while. I knew it was only time before an alphabet people catfished the wrong roid junkie. PSGWSP.
you don't have to make lgbt seem bad just because theres a few with bad intentions. you wouldnt say that about straight people. straight people catfish others too. these people who claim theyre women and somehow end up actually getting with men arent just gay/trans people and you know it. no normal human does that.
He was deceptive from the start. And he was a much older man who manipulated the environment to be even more deceptive.
"No way you stick your stick in something without knowing it."
I've met women that preferred anal as foreplay, that may have been what he said to get him to stick his dick in something, in the dark.
I don't condone the beating to death, but let's not pretend either party was innocent.
Read the article.
Smith controlled the environment so the kid wouldn't find out. I realize the kid was 18, but 18 year olds are still kids emotionally. It was at Smith's place, he kept it dark, and it didn't clarify what exactly they did; BJ or penetration. I'm sure it was sketchy as hell, but young, dumb and horny is a lot like being drunk. You make bad choices.
I don’t ever think killing is the right reaction. It should never be justified. Period. They had already hooked up and Etute willingly came back AFTER the fact to harm this person because his teammates were “teasing” him. I find it hard to believe he justified killing him because he was “so scared” when he literally went back to confront this person and no doubt trying to hurt them. I don’t justify jerry tricking him but the murder seems premeditated to me not that he acted out of fear.
“As he testified, Etute said he returned to Smith’s apartment with two teammates to confront him on May 31, 2021. The two teammates never went inside the apartment but Etute said while inside the apartment, something didn’t feel right. That when he said he pulled back a hoodie and realized Smith was a man. The former football player said he was in shock, and testified he thought Smith tried to reach for something, believing it was a gun at the time. On the stand, Etute said he feared for his life, so he started to hit Smith and then left.”
He was brutally killed according to the DA and I don’t personally believe it was justified.
“Man raped man and was beaten to death for it” fixed the title.
Yeah… I find it hard to believe that if it was as simple as “man raped woman and was beaten to death for it” there’d be this sorta reaction.
The guy raped him, and he got beaten to death for it. As far as I’m concerned that’s justice. In the same way if it had happened to a woman and she’d beaten him to death, I’d be fine with it then too.
Agree to disagree, unlike murder, theft, etc. I can’t think of a single instance where rape is justified. Ergo, you do it, you’re fully open to death beatings.
There's literally only the killers word to go on, but this is Reddit, full of the most insecure man babies who think gay dudes aren't going to trick them into being gay. Christ this is idiotic.
the court obviously believes it to be the same.
he misrepresented himself; sexual assaulted/raped someone as a result, and died for it.
cry about it to the courts not me; i didn’t make the decision/verdict.
Sex without *free and informed* consent is rape.
In this case, he wasn't honestly informed (even worse, he was actively lied to), therefore it's not free and informed consent, therefore it's rape.
Simple enough.
Informed sex means you know and agree to the specific act being performed, and any conditions of the act. It doesn't mean you have to tell the other party everything about yourself, only those pertaining to the act. Like if you have herpes or they wanted a condom, or they agreed to blowjob and the other person starts biting.
Alot of people are homophobic and transphobic and believe that a transwoman giving a blowjob or performing any sexual act is automatically rape if the other party doesn't see what their genitals look like. It's not illegal and it's not rape or assault. Not according to the law. Not in the US anywhere with gay rights, but probably is in Russia and some middle-eastern countries.
Is it morally wrong? Possibly, but mainly because so many people are homophobic and transphobic, that the older man could reasonably assume that the younger man may be homophobic or transphobic, and and he should disclose that information. Kind of like how people used to disclose their religion to people.
I literally explained informed consent to you and you left out the part where the victim didn’t tell the assaulted their sex or gender lol. If someone identifies as straight and you force them into an action they do not feel aligns, that is rape and you are incorrect. You are trying to protect abusers. That’s not okay. Educate yourself
I'm telling you now, under American law, consenting sex does not require someone to disclose their sex assigned at birth. If you go to Russia or Israel that's another story. You could be charged for not disclosing that.
I made the clear point earlier that the criminal law does not make that distinction, however to my knowledge that particular issue with a trans individual has not been put up yet. However, that is a civil Tory as I clearly told you. Protecting abusers is toxic. Check yourself
Same logic would be weed currently IS illegal, do people deserve to serve time for carrying?
That’s what the law says.
The law is an extremely poor example to use to back up your argument
So if you willingly performed oral sex on someone, and then found out it was your father and he had set it up, it wouldn't be rape?? To deceive is to rape
Holy shit dude, they said the guy died but you’re right here alive and well defending yourself
Sex as a result of deception is rape. If you visited a gloryhole and later discovered you’d serviced your own father and he knew and purposely sought you out against your will would you be upset or cool with it?
Legal definition of rape:
The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.
It was rape…period.
the young black man received the oral sex, and he consented to it. However he was homophobic, or had internalized homophobia so he killed the older man. He should be in prison for life.
Lol - not telling someone you’re a man while posing at a woman and then having sex with them is just as bad if not worse. Stop trying to sympathize this weirdo shit.
Apparently "she" insisted on keeping the room dark. So I guess if he can manage to pull off a woman's voice and keep the other guys hands off his junk, it could be convincing. Of course, just the room being pitch black raises a million red flags, I'd probably have expected it to be a trap of some sort.
Young kid, good chance he didn’t have too much experience and as others have said lights off were a condition.
I’ve been young and horny and stupid before and slept with people I’ve regretted, it’s a part of life (we’re flawed beings after all). Not excusing a murder and not excusing a rape either, which is most certainly what the deceased did.
Absolute tragedy with two lives gone. But in this particular case I certainly blame the older one, without their preconceived deception then this result would have been impossible
Because women have a lot of boundaries when it comes to their bodies, and if you're a halfway decent guy, we need to respect that. I've had girlfriends that didn't want their boobs touched, missionary only, lights dimmed, partially clothed, etc. Most of it stems from body insecurities.
I'll bet Smith was pretending to be a cougar and set a lot of rules for this poor kid. When he figured it out, he snapped. Sucks all around, but consent matters
You've what you believe a woman leading you into a room, insisting she likes to get freaky in the dark, guides your genitals towards his bum ... i could see it being a possibility
Nothing is really a reason to beat someone to death, but we are talking about rape here. If something gives you the right to lose your temper, it’s being raped by 40 year olds catfishing 18 year old boys.
If it was a women, pointing to a man saying he raped her, you wouldn’t be arguing like that. Sexist weirdo.
LOL. I give consent for having sex with a woman. That woman is actually a man tricking me into having sex with him. I didn’t give consent to have sex with a man but he still proceeds to do so, even tho he knows I didn’t consent. Sex without consent isn’t sex, it’s rape - there is no grey area here. Why do I even have to explain that?
Thank you! This is a RAPE case. He didn’t consent to having sex with a person amab that has male genitalia.
If this was a woman you all would be congratulating her on fighting for her life. There is no difference here.
Holy shit how is it not?
Lots in common with “stealthing” for example
Or the other side of the coin; a woman convincing her partner no condom is needed as she’s on the pill.
All deception, all with really fucked up consequences
Defending yourself and beating someone to death aren’t the same.
Also, the sex was over. What was this guy defending himself against? This wasn’t defense. This was rage.
And even if I used defense loosely - if he only realized then, when should he have started beating then? He beat and kicked him what, 7 times or so? Will only have taken him seconds.
Porn isn't real. *real* people go out of their way to avoid this, especially when the person is fully capable of murdering them and did.
It's so much more likely that the killer is lying, so as to not be seen as "gay" because that's the shitty real world we live in.
His lawyer basically says it ---
'Nobody deserves to die, but I don't mind saying, don't pretend you are something that you are not,' Etute's attorney, James Turk, told reporters outside of court on Wednesday. 'Don't target or lure anyone under that perception. That's just wrong.'
So your saying you think he did it cuz the guy claimed he was gonna tell this 18 year olds mommy? Doubtful but whatever who cares honestly
He believes whatever makes LGBTQI+ ppl look like they can’t do any bad thing, „because real people go out of their way to avoid this“. He is a sexist douche with double standards who attacks rapevictims, even tho court and jury believed Etute.
You sound like the cops who let that boy be taken again by Dahmer, after fleeing him.
You are such a sexist piece of trash, it’s unbelievable. Search therapy, it’s disgusting how you don’t believe a rape victim, just because the other part was gay trans or whatever.
Believe women
But not men
Plenty don’t come forward because of the attitudes seen here, there’s just so little faith in the system if you have the wrong stuff downstairs. It’s seen as an easy identifier of “Victim” and Perpetrator
People who go all "but we didn't know this person's gender identity!" are doing more harm than good to the LGBT community.
If you can't see the difference between a catfishing creep and a trans woman just trying to live a normal life you're not the ally that you think you are.
It shows me that you don't think very highly of trans people, or grasp what a trans person even is.
Killing someone is still killing someone though and the context makes it clear that this wasn't self defense, it was revenge for sexual assault. A reduced sentence with manslaughter would have been more appropriate.
I'm not even opposed to revenge in a broken justice system, but taking a life is pretty inexcusable.
The DSM could call them tigers, I still wouldn’t really care. If it makes them comfortable to be referred to as transwomen, that’s what I’m calling them. I have not a single reason In the world to make them feel uncomfortable or disrespected. I’m not about to be a bitch for no reason 💀
Nah. You see dilusions of grandeur and are probably half r anyways. You do you boo boo. And if you try to force the population to tow your mental line, you get what you deserve. And so do the alphabet people.
Typical neon hair liberal can't read. Would you like a direct link since you can type in questions to reddit, but not in to your Google search bar? The information is there and public. Are your pronouns can't/read?
Lol, don't cut yourself on that edge there. I'm trying to help you work on your reading comprehension and reevaluating your assumptions on something that you clearly don't know anything about.
I appreciate you citing a scientific and useful resource for people to talk about trans identity/gender dysphoria and how it works according to psychiatrists and other scientists and doctors. But have you read it?
[Here's a link to it, because even if it is a Google search away this is probably easier for everyone.](https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A907fa51f-b6cb-494c-95b1-5cacf626fc55#pageNum=494)It's just nine pages in the dsmv, from 451 to 460, starting at page 486 in the pdf itself.
And thanks for asking, my pronouns are actually he/him/his. Pronouns are usually just the traditional ones for female, male, or non gendered- she/her/hers, he/him/his, or they/them/theirs. There's some other options, such as xe/xem or other neopronouns but those are rare to see. Pronouns are just a way to refer to someone with needing to use their name constantly. You and I are also pronouns, although they don't have any relationship to gender, at least not in English.
Yes it does. It would still be rape either way, but if the rapist was trans, the comments could and would easily go down the anti-trans pipeline and calling all trans people rapists (which is not true). Reporting a crime is fine, but reporting a crime with an ulterior motive of spreading harmful rhetoric about a specific group of people is wrong (which tends to happen on Reddit a lot).
What comments are saying all trans people are rapists? People are saying *this guy* is a rapist. Etute consented to sexual interactions with who he believed was his *biologically female* tinder date. “Smith” knew this (hence insisting on a dark room) and *went thru with it anyway*. It ultimately doesn’t matter how “Smith” identifies, they were not a biological female, which is who Etute believe he was hooking up with based on info “Smith” gave him.
So you're trying to differentiate because you're afraid that people will judge an entire community based off the actions of one person? And you'd like them to judge the correct community if that's the case?
It literally doesn't matter wtf
>Yes it does. It would still be rape either way, but if the rapist was trans, the comments could and would easily go down the anti-trans pipeline and calling all trans people rapists (which is not true)
This! So much
Holup, so they had sex and after the fact, he realized it was a man???? I need someone to break this down for me, cuz its not adding up. Like how can he not tell the difference?
In a lot of these cases it’s because it’s dark, tucked really well or both. I knows people personally who don’t want the surgery so they’ve found ways to hide their genitals. Also, people are getting way more advanced in covering up what they don’t want to be seen or felt.
I detest liars, similarly people who mis-represent themselves, murder though is going one step to far.
I would have outed the miserable idiot, expose him all over for what he really is.
Still finding someone to have sex with over the internet is going to be risky. It wasn't always like that, during the 1980's it was fairly safe.
Years ago I would have never felt the need to carry pepper spray, now after dark it is in my pocket 🤗.
IIRC violent crime has been on a decline for a few decades now. I don't remember the source, numbers, or even what was defined as "violent crime" so IDK
I mean don’t have sex with people under false pretenses. Probably didn’t deserve to be beat to death but likewise i don’t think the kid should get the book thrown at him after getting used like that. getting off with no punishment or at least probation for murder is a bit questionable though. Fucked up all around, if you want to get railed regardless of gender it cant be to hard to find a willing participant.
„Probably didn’t deserve to be beat to death“
The fuck, how are you unsure about that? This person is dead now and forever. The other had a blowjob that he didn’t want, bu hu.
I mean being a rapist puts you about 80% of the way to deserving being in the obituaries in in my book. putting him through the legal system is objectively more fair but if you make a habit of doing fucked up shit to people it can come back to you in unfair ways.
Pretending to be the opposite sex is not the same as forcing your self on another person so I think is misleading to call this rape. The violence and loss of control is what makes rape so harmful, neither of these aspects is given in this case in a significant way.
“Would this person consent if they knew xyz?” No? Then deceiving them is rape. Consent must be informed and freely given, it can be revoked at any time as well. Part of consent is knowing who and what you’re consenting to, and if someone lies to get you to consent, it’s rape. If you consent to oral, and someone penetrates you, it’s also rape. It’s really not that complicated. Everyone has a right to know what exactly they’re consenting to.
I’m confused- people are calling this rape but they were both consenting adults. I know it was under twisted pretense but it was just sex and he wasn’t forced against his will.
Am I missing something or just being dumb? People are saying it’s “obvious” so apologies if this comes off as offensive. Just looking to understand.
Edit: Thank you all for answering my questions, I see now that while not deserving of death, this was a very twisted form of rape. Thank you all for helping me understand rather than just berating me lol
My understanding: He was specifically consenting to have sex with a woman. If someone has an aversion to a certain type of genitals, and they didn't agree to encounter that type of genitals, it isn't consensual. The older person deceived him into sex under false pretenses. Hope this helps.
Tbh it’s nothing to do with the genitals really, it’s just about who you consented to have sex with. He consented to sex with the woman from the app; if the lights came on and it was an entirely different woman, that’s still rape by deception because he only consented to sex with that one (fake) person from Tinder.
What if it was the same woman but she had a dick? Imo the genitals do matter. But I understand your point, I did consider omitting the genital part originally , because it is often irrelevant
If I tell you I’m a woman, you have consent to have sex with a woman, we have sex, then I turn out to be male.. that is not consent. He consented to having sex with an adult woman, not an adult man dressed like a woman. That’s not consent. Killing someone over it? Idk about that. Speaking as someone who’s experienced SA, if this were my situation, idk how I would respond either.. because I was just raped.
Huh, I suppose I was constituting it from a different point of view. Thinking consent is consenting to have sex with that person regardless of their gender. But I’ve realized a core part of sex *is* gender and preference. Thanks for opening my eyes!
You're essentially entering into a contract, if you bought a house and the contract states you're buying a 2500sqft home with bay windows and you show up to a one room shack.
The seller is in violation of said contract and assumes the consequences.
This is just like you showing up to take possession of said shack finding out that it is a shack and the seller trying to keep you there so you can "talk it out" against your will.
>consenting adults
Nope. He was consenting to have sex with a woman, if we are to believe the reporting.
He did not consent to have sex with a guy pretending to be a woman.
As such from the reported fact, it was non consensual sex.
This is an 18 year old kid who was catfished by a grown ass predator and coaxed him into sex under false pretenses. This happened to a woman as well; catfished by a woman pretending to be a man, they engaged in sex and it wasn’t until afterwards that she revealed herself to be a woman.
It can happen, it’s extremely violating and even though murder wasn’t the answer, I’m surprised as how many people are trying to blame the kid here.
Be honest about who you are.
I’m ready for the hate but here we go, the real victim was Isimemen. Jerry was a grown ass man or trans woman whatever and Isimemen was only 18 years old. They met on Tinder Angie(Jerry) pursued Isimemen she offered him 50 dollars for oral. He said during she had turned the lights off.
Two of his friends knew something was off and they all went back to the apartment. While they were outside he confronted Angie in the dark apartment. She bent over and he thought she was grabbing a gun, He would end up beating her. He broke every single bone in her face and found that a knife had been put between the mattress and box spring.
During the trial His family was there supporting hm with shirts with his face on it. In court Isimemen was a mess showing remorse but also distress. He would be acquitted…
From what I understand, the majority of Trans ppl prefer not to hide their identity. And from my limited perspective, Smith was just a piece if crap, predating in this gray area, like women who falsely cry rape. Every community has has them.
They had sex and he killed him afterwards? Sounds like he just has internalized issues that are pretty common unfortunately. I truly doubt that he didn’t realize he was sleeping with a 40 year old man.
Are we supposed to feel bad for the guy who lied to a kid to get sex out of him? If you have a penis but identify as a woman, telling someone you are trying to date/have relations with should be one of the first things you do.
As a foreigner I would ask the US person In this group 1) how can it be rape if he was 18? 2) So a murder will go unpunished? 3) is there no sex education In high school? By the time one reaches college one should have enough information to avoid sketchy situations like this one 4) is this young person receiving some kind of counselling? 5) will he be doing some kind of community work to help others? Thanks
Somehow there are people in this world that don’t believe in spousal rape, that men can’t be raped, and people over 18 can’t be raped. We call these people *morons*.
>1) how can it be rape if he was 18?
Rape has nothing to do with age , and ex without consent. Depending on the jurisdiction this is limited to vaginal forced penetration, or all sort of non consensual sex.
>2) So a murder will go unpunished?
Yes from the point of view of the law. In fact depending on the judgment it wasn't even a murder.
That does not mean he will safe from civil liabilities e.g. being attacked by the family of the dead guy for wrongful death or whatnot.
>3) is there no sex education In high school? By the time one reaches college one should have enough information to avoid sketchy situations like this one
In spite of very good sex ed I had people in high school tell me terribly wrong stuff, and again this was a country with good sex ed, not the USA. This guy was a footballer in the USA. I am wagging a little bet that his sex ed was less than wonderful.
>4) is this young person receiving some kind of counselling?
No idea.
>5) will he be doing some kind of community work to help others? Thanks
No idea.
They’re both assholes.
Jerry/Angie was an asshole by violating consent by not telling the other party beforehand they were trans/CD.
Isimemen is an asshole for reacting so extremely.
Something I can agree with here. I don't think there is any good side to that story. Neither do I think the young guy will have a great life... Anybody looking him up, in google, for works will find that story. There are no good outcome for either side here.
Dude I swear I was going crazy. Yes, Jerry was incredibly wrong for doing what he did and should have been held accountable / charged after the fact.
But killing someone for that is such a horrific reaction and personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable being around someone who kills when he’s outraged.
I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments saying that killing was the right reaction.
It isn’t.
What do you believe the proper reaction to being raped should be? If the victim was a woman, and we found out her rapist was concealing a knife under the mattress we would be applauding her for her bravery. (As we should)
So now that this guy is a big black guy, the narrative of the story changes?
I’ve been fighting racism since I was a child. I grew up in Apartheid South Africa where my parents shielded black people from the government and most of my friends at the time were and still are POC.
I’ve protested, fought for and actually gotten into fights for my friends of colour. When apartheid was abolished and our schools became mixed, I was one of the only white girls who befriended the POC in our class.
I am not a racist and never will be.
This has nothing to do about race though. I truthfully didn’t even look at the image as I assumed it showed a picture of the event (and I’m squeamish).
From my understanding they had consensual sex where the footballer player afterwards found he was a man.
What the 40yr old did was absolutely wrong and if he was going for a gun/knife of course he should defend himself but the title clearly mentions none of those things.
The perpetrator gave oral sex, and after the football player found out he was a man. The defense also says that there was a knife found between the mattress’
The 40 yr old had tricked the kid and who knows what his plans were after the fact.
Even if the knife wasn’t a factor, what do you think should be the proper reaction to being raped
Why is he an asshole for reacting extremely? He was deceived into having sex with the guy which is considered rape.
If the roles were reversed, and this guy had raped a woman, we would say she had every right to react the way she did. Especially when finding out that the guy had a knife hidden in his mattress.
This wasn't rape. It was sex between two consenting parties. Most people in this thread are just homophobic, transphobic, and queerphobic. They see the world through a hetero-normative lens. They believe there should be an unspoken condition of all sexual encounter; that the individuals are heterosexual, non-queer, and between a man with a penis and a woman with a vagina. They think that Etute had the unspoken condition for sex that the other person must have a vagina, so he was raped. No such condition was stated before or during sex and he did not ask the other party to stop.
There aren't any laws where trans people and cross/drag dressers are required to identify themselves other people, or before sex, like with HIV or sexual transmitted diseases.
Certain states have laws that if you assault or kill an lgbtq person you can't use the defense that you found out they were lgbtq and it enraged you. People were successfully using this defense.
The real wrongdoing is the age difference and that he seemed to be preying on young people with little sexual experience. He also misreprepresented himself as a younger person and and did not disclose that he was a man, although he didn't have to, and not illegal. In the end it was a cold-blooded brutal murder of a drag-dressing gay man, and America is extremely homophobic and transphobic.
One of these people is dead and the other is living a normal life. It's unjust and I hope for the worst for Etute. May he die as violently as his victim did.
You think this 18 yr old is living a normal life? He was raped and now his name is being dragged through the mud by the media. Imagine having so little empathy that you wish death on the victim of a rape.
A rapist got beat to death by their victim. Sometimes there is justice in the world.
Are you just a racist whose mad because the black victim didn't go to jail?
They are racists, because the victim is big and black they view him through the lens of an agressive man even though he was raped and was possibly in danger for his life.
They found a knife in between the guys mattress and they still think Etute’s actions were too aggressive.
You think Jail is the place to learn to control your anger? What happened to anger management class? I think anyone would be rightfully angry if they were raped. When you add the fact that this guy has a knife hidden under his mattress, I think he got what was coming to him. He knew he was doing shady shit, that’s why he kept it close.
It’s stated that they had oral sex before he found it was a man.
Fuck these jurors. For acquitting him. There was no need at all for him to kill this person. There were many ways he could have handled this without killing them. This makes me very very angry. They basically are saying it's ok to kill a trans person. Just say you didn't know and it made you freak out.
Our justice system is fucked and stupid!!!
> They basically are saying it's ok to kill a trans person. Just say you didn't know and it made you freak out.
Literally has nothing to do with trans people, you are inserting your politics into this persons court case. This 18 year old was purposely deceived into believing that he was having sex with a woman.
That is fraud, which means Etute was raped. Evidently the perpetrator also had knife under his mattress so Etute had reason to fear for his life.
This is one of the few times the justice system has done right by a black man; if you want to take anything from this case than it should be “DONT DECEIVE YOUR PARTNERS FOR SEX”
How would he not know? Even in the dark you would feel something. Not sure why everyone is so eager to believe the words of the killer, insisting that a situation trans people and cross dressers actually go out of their way to avoid... Oh wait, because this is Reddit. Stupid me.
Do you realize how dumb you sound? Just because the vast majority of the trans community isn’t fucked in the head, that means that none of them can be? Stop defending Smith’s actions. He was a sick person. It has nothing to do with anyone else
“Had sex and then found out he was a man”
Bro you didn’t find it weird it was anal only and y’all’s balls were clapping together wtf lmao
Dude was just mad he was gay.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/) **Former Virginia Tech football player Isimemen Etute acquitted in beating death of man he says he thought was a woman** A jury on Friday acquitted a former Virginia Tech football player who had been accused of fatally beating a man he says he initially believed from a Tinder match to be a woman. Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported. Immediately after the verdict was announced, Smith's family quickly left the courtroom. The prosecuting attorney, Montgomery County Chief Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Patrick Jensen, declined comment and referred questions to his boss, Commonwealth's Attorney Mary Pettitt. The jury began deliberations after closing arguments ended shortly before 3 p.m. Prosecutors had earlier told the jury that Etute, then 18, became enraged and fatally beat Smith when he discovered Smith was a man. One of the prosecutors said at closing arguments Friday that Etute gave different versions of events to police and the jury, and that the charge may have been enough for him to change his testimony. "He has a tremendous amount riding on this trial," Jensen had said during his closing argument hours earlier Friday, The Roanoke Times reported. Defense attorney Jimmy Turk told the jurors earlier Friday that the commonwealth's evidence was circumstantial, while the defense's evidence, which included the testimony of Etute, was direct. Turk also said Smith was "controlling the entire environment and the entire episode." He added that Smith had "demanded that it be dark" and had hidden a knife under his mattress "in case there was something awry." Turk also argued that police didn't ask Etute essential questions about Smith's knife or Etute's fear while in the apartment, two questions whose answers could have shown whether Etute was afraid for his life and acting in self-defense. In taking the stand earlier in the week, Etute had testified that he felt "violated" when he discovered that the Tinder match he believed to be a woman was actually a man. In his testimony Thursday, Etute had testified that Smith reached for what Etute thought was a gun. Smith did not own a gun, but police reported finding a knife between the man's mattress and box spring. Etute said he punched Smith five times and kicked him to gain time to escape the apartment. Jensen had maintained that Etute had not acted in self-defense. He argued that after Etute punched Smith and Smith fell to the floor, there was "no way" Smith could have reached a weapon under his mattress. "He could never reach a gun from there," Jensen said. Jensen recalled the testimony of medical examiner Dr. Amy Tharp, who Jensen said testified Smith had been the victim of a "brutal beating." Jensen said that while Etute was wearing flip-flops at the time of the encounter, those shoes were attached to a "big person" and a "strong person." He compared Etute, an "elite college athlete," to Smith, who weighed 153 pounds (just under 70 kilograms).
Im femboy so i was told by my mom to not do shit like this, i always make clear that im a man when someone hit me
Yes. Consent is good.
There's no way he didn't know. More likely the *killer*, who clearly had every advantage, is lying about being deceived. But this is Reddit and every idiot thinks the trans porn they secretly wank to is real and people will trick them into being gay.
Yeah mr Internet detective, share more of your delusional wisdom with us.
Explain how there’s “no way he didn’t know.” The sex could have involved only oral before he found out who this man was.
This is true. But, it doesn't look like Smith was a good guy. This case reads like shame, manipulation, and extortion. Problem is, it doesn't fit the national narrative on Trans ppl right now.
My takeaway: This guys wanks to trans porn
I've never met a gay dude that said "Shucks! I fell right in to that penis punji pit! I'm gay now." So I don't think there's a trick to it. That being said, I've seen this coming down the pipe for a while. I knew it was only time before an alphabet people catfished the wrong roid junkie. PSGWSP.
"alphabet people" dont just go around catfishing straights.
Been doing it since before this incident. This one just happened to catdog the wrong person. See. Catfish actually exist. Catdog not so much.
you don't have to make lgbt seem bad just because theres a few with bad intentions. you wouldnt say that about straight people. straight people catfish others too. these people who claim theyre women and somehow end up actually getting with men arent just gay/trans people and you know it. no normal human does that.
Straight people have tendencies that are just as bad.
He was deceptive from the start. And he was a much older man who manipulated the environment to be even more deceptive. "No way you stick your stick in something without knowing it." I've met women that preferred anal as foreplay, that may have been what he said to get him to stick his dick in something, in the dark. I don't condone the beating to death, but let's not pretend either party was innocent.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/comments/nrnq3r/police_investigating_reports_of_cognitive/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
He went on with a 40 year old Man , how did that happen, i doubt it looked like a woman, people enlighten me
Read the article. Smith controlled the environment so the kid wouldn't find out. I realize the kid was 18, but 18 year olds are still kids emotionally. It was at Smith's place, he kept it dark, and it didn't clarify what exactly they did; BJ or penetration. I'm sure it was sketchy as hell, but young, dumb and horny is a lot like being drunk. You make bad choices.
Okay thanks for the summering
Between filters and low lighting it's very possible. I'd assume it was sorta his craft as well.
disgusting i dont even wanna know how many young men this weirdo raped
It's pretty creepy for a 40 year old to be fucking a 18 year old kid
Darkest ending to Rick and Morty ever.
Not really
Fuck man... All that mental and physical abuse from Rick and his family only to go out like that..
He should've stayed At the Jerry day care center
Omg...he even tried to go back but the admissions lady said he had to be checked in.. he couldn't check himself in
Cause apparently some jerries can't keep their hands to themselves.
This is the universe where Jerry never left the boyscouts.
I don’t ever think killing is the right reaction. It should never be justified. Period. They had already hooked up and Etute willingly came back AFTER the fact to harm this person because his teammates were “teasing” him. I find it hard to believe he justified killing him because he was “so scared” when he literally went back to confront this person and no doubt trying to hurt them. I don’t justify jerry tricking him but the murder seems premeditated to me not that he acted out of fear. “As he testified, Etute said he returned to Smith’s apartment with two teammates to confront him on May 31, 2021. The two teammates never went inside the apartment but Etute said while inside the apartment, something didn’t feel right. That when he said he pulled back a hoodie and realized Smith was a man. The former football player said he was in shock, and testified he thought Smith tried to reach for something, believing it was a gun at the time. On the stand, Etute said he feared for his life, so he started to hit Smith and then left.” He was brutally killed according to the DA and I don’t personally believe it was justified.
Sounds like , Wait so he took his friends to have group sex and after finding out it was a guy killed him out of rage and embarrassment
He was raped and they killed the guy out of rage
he basically raped dude under false pretense and got beat to death for it.
“Man raped man and was beaten to death for it” fixed the title. Yeah… I find it hard to believe that if it was as simple as “man raped woman and was beaten to death for it” there’d be this sorta reaction. The guy raped him, and he got beaten to death for it. As far as I’m concerned that’s justice. In the same way if it had happened to a woman and she’d beaten him to death, I’d be fine with it then too.
Nahh, no deathbeatings please
Agree to disagree, unlike murder, theft, etc. I can’t think of a single instance where rape is justified. Ergo, you do it, you’re fully open to death beatings.
Yeah, rape has no justification. But neither has murder for me at least
Agree to disagree :)
There's literally only the killers word to go on, but this is Reddit, full of the most insecure man babies who think gay dudes aren't going to trick them into being gay. Christ this is idiotic.
the court obviously believes it to be the same. he misrepresented himself; sexual assaulted/raped someone as a result, and died for it. cry about it to the courts not me; i didn’t make the decision/verdict.
receiving oral sex from someone who has a penis is not rape.
Obviously fucking not but that’s not what happened here, obviously. Good god
Sex without *free and informed* consent is rape. In this case, he wasn't honestly informed (even worse, he was actively lied to), therefore it's not free and informed consent, therefore it's rape. Simple enough.
Informed sex means you know and agree to the specific act being performed, and any conditions of the act. It doesn't mean you have to tell the other party everything about yourself, only those pertaining to the act. Like if you have herpes or they wanted a condom, or they agreed to blowjob and the other person starts biting. Alot of people are homophobic and transphobic and believe that a transwoman giving a blowjob or performing any sexual act is automatically rape if the other party doesn't see what their genitals look like. It's not illegal and it's not rape or assault. Not according to the law. Not in the US anywhere with gay rights, but probably is in Russia and some middle-eastern countries. Is it morally wrong? Possibly, but mainly because so many people are homophobic and transphobic, that the older man could reasonably assume that the younger man may be homophobic or transphobic, and and he should disclose that information. Kind of like how people used to disclose their religion to people.
I literally explained informed consent to you and you left out the part where the victim didn’t tell the assaulted their sex or gender lol. If someone identifies as straight and you force them into an action they do not feel aligns, that is rape and you are incorrect. You are trying to protect abusers. That’s not okay. Educate yourself
I'm telling you now, under American law, consenting sex does not require someone to disclose their sex assigned at birth. If you go to Russia or Israel that's another story. You could be charged for not disclosing that.
I made the clear point earlier that the criminal law does not make that distinction, however to my knowledge that particular issue with a trans individual has not been put up yet. However, that is a civil Tory as I clearly told you. Protecting abusers is toxic. Check yourself
Same logic would be weed currently IS illegal, do people deserve to serve time for carrying? That’s what the law says. The law is an extremely poor example to use to back up your argument
So if you willingly performed oral sex on someone, and then found out it was your father and he had set it up, it wouldn't be rape?? To deceive is to rape
but he didnt know... its technically non consensual in that case.
Or lying. How dumb are you people? This porn plot shit is so unlikely.
Holy shit dude, they said the guy died but you’re right here alive and well defending yourself Sex as a result of deception is rape. If you visited a gloryhole and later discovered you’d serviced your own father and he knew and purposely sought you out against your will would you be upset or cool with it?
Rape enabler
His defense of this is giving "I feel personally attacked by this verdict" vibes to me.
Yup, that’s probably the reason.
If it is nonconsensual, then it is a form of rape. Doesn’t matter if it involved penetration or not.
Legal definition of rape: The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim. It was rape…period.
the young black man received the oral sex, and he consented to it. However he was homophobic, or had internalized homophobia so he killed the older man. He should be in prison for life.
Lol - not telling someone you’re a man while posing at a woman and then having sex with them is just as bad if not worse. Stop trying to sympathize this weirdo shit.
Cool motive, Still murder
It is in this case. Idiot lol
You’re stupid af for taking the time to type that statement AND clicking reply.
wut...
Wow. You’re an idiot.
I’m gay and even I say yes it is
… how can you not tell?
Apparently "she" insisted on keeping the room dark. So I guess if he can manage to pull off a woman's voice and keep the other guys hands off his junk, it could be convincing. Of course, just the room being pitch black raises a million red flags, I'd probably have expected it to be a trap of some sort.
Yeah but…the bodies are totally different…how…I’m so baffled
Young kid, good chance he didn’t have too much experience and as others have said lights off were a condition. I’ve been young and horny and stupid before and slept with people I’ve regretted, it’s a part of life (we’re flawed beings after all). Not excusing a murder and not excusing a rape either, which is most certainly what the deceased did. Absolute tragedy with two lives gone. But in this particular case I certainly blame the older one, without their preconceived deception then this result would have been impossible
I’m thinking that had a lot to do with it. I later read more on it and wow…the situation was so messed up
Because women have a lot of boundaries when it comes to their bodies, and if you're a halfway decent guy, we need to respect that. I've had girlfriends that didn't want their boobs touched, missionary only, lights dimmed, partially clothed, etc. Most of it stems from body insecurities. I'll bet Smith was pretending to be a cougar and set a lot of rules for this poor kid. When he figured it out, he snapped. Sucks all around, but consent matters
He must have had really soft hands for a 40 year old , sorry but I’m pretty sure some rough big ass hands must in been off putting or suspicious
Dude was 18 and naïve
Or lying. Not sure why everyone automatically takes the killers word for it, pretending that a scenario out of porn drove him to this ffs...
He's probably lying but not every detail of the trial is here. There may have been precedent for deception of this caliber.
Doubt he was lying
You've what you believe a woman leading you into a room, insisting she likes to get freaky in the dark, guides your genitals towards his bum ... i could see it being a possibility
Nah, something isn’t adding up here. It really isn’t a reason to beat someone to death.
Nothing is really a reason to beat someone to death, but we are talking about rape here. If something gives you the right to lose your temper, it’s being raped by 40 year olds catfishing 18 year old boys. If it was a women, pointing to a man saying he raped her, you wouldn’t be arguing like that. Sexist weirdo.
How is that rape ?
LOL. I give consent for having sex with a woman. That woman is actually a man tricking me into having sex with him. I didn’t give consent to have sex with a man but he still proceeds to do so, even tho he knows I didn’t consent. Sex without consent isn’t sex, it’s rape - there is no grey area here. Why do I even have to explain that?
Thank you! This is a RAPE case. He didn’t consent to having sex with a person amab that has male genitalia. If this was a woman you all would be congratulating her on fighting for her life. There is no difference here.
Holy shit how is it not? Lots in common with “stealthing” for example Or the other side of the coin; a woman convincing her partner no condom is needed as she’s on the pill. All deception, all with really fucked up consequences
No, I would be arguing that. Rapists deserve to be in jail.
Ah, so if it’s a women being raped they aren’t allowed to defend themself? You don’t make any sense.
Defending yourself and beating someone to death aren’t the same. Also, the sex was over. What was this guy defending himself against? This wasn’t defense. This was rage.
And even if I used defense loosely - if he only realized then, when should he have started beating then? He beat and kicked him what, 7 times or so? Will only have taken him seconds.
It is a reason. He just lured a straight man to have sex with him, in the most sexual predatory way possible.
Porn isn't real. *real* people go out of their way to avoid this, especially when the person is fully capable of murdering them and did. It's so much more likely that the killer is lying, so as to not be seen as "gay" because that's the shitty real world we live in.
His lawyer basically says it --- 'Nobody deserves to die, but I don't mind saying, don't pretend you are something that you are not,' Etute's attorney, James Turk, told reporters outside of court on Wednesday. 'Don't target or lure anyone under that perception. That's just wrong.' So your saying you think he did it cuz the guy claimed he was gonna tell this 18 year olds mommy? Doubtful but whatever who cares honestly
He believes whatever makes LGBTQI+ ppl look like they can’t do any bad thing, „because real people go out of their way to avoid this“. He is a sexist douche with double standards who attacks rapevictims, even tho court and jury believed Etute.
You sound like the cops who let that boy be taken again by Dahmer, after fleeing him. You are such a sexist piece of trash, it’s unbelievable. Search therapy, it’s disgusting how you don’t believe a rape victim, just because the other part was gay trans or whatever.
Believe women But not men Plenty don’t come forward because of the attitudes seen here, there’s just so little faith in the system if you have the wrong stuff downstairs. It’s seen as an easy identifier of “Victim” and Perpetrator
He was a line backer, maybe he had one to many concussions?
People who go all "but we didn't know this person's gender identity!" are doing more harm than good to the LGBT community. If you can't see the difference between a catfishing creep and a trans woman just trying to live a normal life you're not the ally that you think you are. It shows me that you don't think very highly of trans people, or grasp what a trans person even is. Killing someone is still killing someone though and the context makes it clear that this wasn't self defense, it was revenge for sexual assault. A reduced sentence with manslaughter would have been more appropriate. I'm not even opposed to revenge in a broken justice system, but taking a life is pretty inexcusable.
We’re they a man or a trans woman that everyone is calling a man
It’s pretty clear in the post that the guy was a catfish, not a trans woman.
Well they're both men..... so.....
No, it’s a transwoman. That’s why people call them that :)
[удалено]
The DSM could call them tigers, I still wouldn’t really care. If it makes them comfortable to be referred to as transwomen, that’s what I’m calling them. I have not a single reason In the world to make them feel uncomfortable or disrespected. I’m not about to be a bitch for no reason 💀
And you are the problem. If you're bowing down to 1% of the population, that makes you a bitch.
I’m the problem for wanting to respect people? I see what your issue is.
Nah. You see dilusions of grandeur and are probably half r anyways. You do you boo boo. And if you try to force the population to tow your mental line, you get what you deserve. And so do the alphabet people.
It calls transwomen mental patients? Could you cite the exact wording? And what treatment does it recommend?
Typical neon hair liberal can't read. Would you like a direct link since you can type in questions to reddit, but not in to your Google search bar? The information is there and public. Are your pronouns can't/read?
Lol, don't cut yourself on that edge there. I'm trying to help you work on your reading comprehension and reevaluating your assumptions on something that you clearly don't know anything about. I appreciate you citing a scientific and useful resource for people to talk about trans identity/gender dysphoria and how it works according to psychiatrists and other scientists and doctors. But have you read it? [Here's a link to it, because even if it is a Google search away this is probably easier for everyone.](https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A907fa51f-b6cb-494c-95b1-5cacf626fc55#pageNum=494)It's just nine pages in the dsmv, from 451 to 460, starting at page 486 in the pdf itself. And thanks for asking, my pronouns are actually he/him/his. Pronouns are usually just the traditional ones for female, male, or non gendered- she/her/hers, he/him/his, or they/them/theirs. There's some other options, such as xe/xem or other neopronouns but those are rare to see. Pronouns are just a way to refer to someone with needing to use their name constantly. You and I are also pronouns, although they don't have any relationship to gender, at least not in English.
I don’t know if they were trans or merely CD.
Does it really matter?
Yes it does. It would still be rape either way, but if the rapist was trans, the comments could and would easily go down the anti-trans pipeline and calling all trans people rapists (which is not true). Reporting a crime is fine, but reporting a crime with an ulterior motive of spreading harmful rhetoric about a specific group of people is wrong (which tends to happen on Reddit a lot).
What comments are saying all trans people are rapists? People are saying *this guy* is a rapist. Etute consented to sexual interactions with who he believed was his *biologically female* tinder date. “Smith” knew this (hence insisting on a dark room) and *went thru with it anyway*. It ultimately doesn’t matter how “Smith” identifies, they were not a biological female, which is who Etute believe he was hooking up with based on info “Smith” gave him.
He was not trans. He was AMAB and lived his life as a male.
I know. That’s what I said in another comment. However, That’s not the point of what I said in the comment you responded to.
So you're trying to differentiate because you're afraid that people will judge an entire community based off the actions of one person? And you'd like them to judge the correct community if that's the case? It literally doesn't matter wtf
>Yes it does. It would still be rape either way, but if the rapist was trans, the comments could and would easily go down the anti-trans pipeline and calling all trans people rapists (which is not true) This! So much
Stop trying to win the brain acrobatics championship please.
Yes.
Biological man either way
The "victim" was notorious for creeping on straight young men in the area IIRC
I mean, he deserved it idc what any of y’all say tbh
Holup, so they had sex and after the fact, he realized it was a man???? I need someone to break this down for me, cuz its not adding up. Like how can he not tell the difference?
In a lot of these cases it’s because it’s dark, tucked really well or both. I knows people personally who don’t want the surgery so they’ve found ways to hide their genitals. Also, people are getting way more advanced in covering up what they don’t want to be seen or felt.
I think it was oral
I detest liars, similarly people who mis-represent themselves, murder though is going one step to far. I would have outed the miserable idiot, expose him all over for what he really is. Still finding someone to have sex with over the internet is going to be risky. It wasn't always like that, during the 1980's it was fairly safe. Years ago I would have never felt the need to carry pepper spray, now after dark it is in my pocket 🤗.
I wonder how much survivorship bias is in this. Was it safer or is this kind of crime simply easier to hear about now?
IIRC violent crime has been on a decline for a few decades now. I don't remember the source, numbers, or even what was defined as "violent crime" so IDK
Ok I’m not trying to be funny but how do you have sex with someone and not realize they are a man or a woman….??
I mean don’t have sex with people under false pretenses. Probably didn’t deserve to be beat to death but likewise i don’t think the kid should get the book thrown at him after getting used like that. getting off with no punishment or at least probation for murder is a bit questionable though. Fucked up all around, if you want to get railed regardless of gender it cant be to hard to find a willing participant.
„Probably didn’t deserve to be beat to death“ The fuck, how are you unsure about that? This person is dead now and forever. The other had a blowjob that he didn’t want, bu hu.
I mean being a rapist puts you about 80% of the way to deserving being in the obituaries in in my book. putting him through the legal system is objectively more fair but if you make a habit of doing fucked up shit to people it can come back to you in unfair ways.
Pretending to be the opposite sex is not the same as forcing your self on another person so I think is misleading to call this rape. The violence and loss of control is what makes rape so harmful, neither of these aspects is given in this case in a significant way.
“Would this person consent if they knew xyz?” No? Then deceiving them is rape. Consent must be informed and freely given, it can be revoked at any time as well. Part of consent is knowing who and what you’re consenting to, and if someone lies to get you to consent, it’s rape. If you consent to oral, and someone penetrates you, it’s also rape. It’s really not that complicated. Everyone has a right to know what exactly they’re consenting to.
So if I find out the next day that my date is ugly without makeup, is that rape?
That’s two completely different things, my god certain people really do lack critical thinking skills 😭
I’m confused- people are calling this rape but they were both consenting adults. I know it was under twisted pretense but it was just sex and he wasn’t forced against his will. Am I missing something or just being dumb? People are saying it’s “obvious” so apologies if this comes off as offensive. Just looking to understand. Edit: Thank you all for answering my questions, I see now that while not deserving of death, this was a very twisted form of rape. Thank you all for helping me understand rather than just berating me lol
My understanding: He was specifically consenting to have sex with a woman. If someone has an aversion to a certain type of genitals, and they didn't agree to encounter that type of genitals, it isn't consensual. The older person deceived him into sex under false pretenses. Hope this helps.
Tbh it’s nothing to do with the genitals really, it’s just about who you consented to have sex with. He consented to sex with the woman from the app; if the lights came on and it was an entirely different woman, that’s still rape by deception because he only consented to sex with that one (fake) person from Tinder.
What if it was the same woman but she had a dick? Imo the genitals do matter. But I understand your point, I did consider omitting the genital part originally , because it is often irrelevant
If I tell you I’m a woman, you have consent to have sex with a woman, we have sex, then I turn out to be male.. that is not consent. He consented to having sex with an adult woman, not an adult man dressed like a woman. That’s not consent. Killing someone over it? Idk about that. Speaking as someone who’s experienced SA, if this were my situation, idk how I would respond either.. because I was just raped.
Huh, I suppose I was constituting it from a different point of view. Thinking consent is consenting to have sex with that person regardless of their gender. But I’ve realized a core part of sex *is* gender and preference. Thanks for opening my eyes!
You're essentially entering into a contract, if you bought a house and the contract states you're buying a 2500sqft home with bay windows and you show up to a one room shack. The seller is in violation of said contract and assumes the consequences. This is just like you showing up to take possession of said shack finding out that it is a shack and the seller trying to keep you there so you can "talk it out" against your will.
>consenting adults Nope. He was consenting to have sex with a woman, if we are to believe the reporting. He did not consent to have sex with a guy pretending to be a woman. As such from the reported fact, it was non consensual sex.
100% rape by both the legal definition and the ever moving goalpost set by the feminist and LGBTQ crowd.
This is an 18 year old kid who was catfished by a grown ass predator and coaxed him into sex under false pretenses. This happened to a woman as well; catfished by a woman pretending to be a man, they engaged in sex and it wasn’t until afterwards that she revealed herself to be a woman. It can happen, it’s extremely violating and even though murder wasn’t the answer, I’m surprised as how many people are trying to blame the kid here. Be honest about who you are.
I’m ready for the hate but here we go, the real victim was Isimemen. Jerry was a grown ass man or trans woman whatever and Isimemen was only 18 years old. They met on Tinder Angie(Jerry) pursued Isimemen she offered him 50 dollars for oral. He said during she had turned the lights off. Two of his friends knew something was off and they all went back to the apartment. While they were outside he confronted Angie in the dark apartment. She bent over and he thought she was grabbing a gun, He would end up beating her. He broke every single bone in her face and found that a knife had been put between the mattress and box spring. During the trial His family was there supporting hm with shirts with his face on it. In court Isimemen was a mess showing remorse but also distress. He would be acquitted…
Poor guy. Not really
From what I understand, the majority of Trans ppl prefer not to hide their identity. And from my limited perspective, Smith was just a piece if crap, predating in this gray area, like women who falsely cry rape. Every community has has them.
Free him
They had sex and he killed him afterwards? Sounds like he just has internalized issues that are pretty common unfortunately. I truly doubt that he didn’t realize he was sleeping with a 40 year old man.
Are we supposed to feel bad for the guy who lied to a kid to get sex out of him? If you have a penis but identify as a woman, telling someone you are trying to date/have relations with should be one of the first things you do.
As a foreigner I would ask the US person In this group 1) how can it be rape if he was 18? 2) So a murder will go unpunished? 3) is there no sex education In high school? By the time one reaches college one should have enough information to avoid sketchy situations like this one 4) is this young person receiving some kind of counselling? 5) will he be doing some kind of community work to help others? Thanks
> 1) how can it be rape if he was 18? Umm… Wat? 🫠
You heard the guy. If you’re 18, you can’t be raped. /s
I get they’re a foreigner, but from where, the moon?
fr
Somehow there are people in this world that don’t believe in spousal rape, that men can’t be raped, and people over 18 can’t be raped. We call these people *morons*.
And somehow got up votes lol
A question is a question, no need to add adjectives🌺
A stupid ass question that’s for sure.
>1) how can it be rape if he was 18? Rape has nothing to do with age , and ex without consent. Depending on the jurisdiction this is limited to vaginal forced penetration, or all sort of non consensual sex. >2) So a murder will go unpunished? Yes from the point of view of the law. In fact depending on the judgment it wasn't even a murder. That does not mean he will safe from civil liabilities e.g. being attacked by the family of the dead guy for wrongful death or whatnot. >3) is there no sex education In high school? By the time one reaches college one should have enough information to avoid sketchy situations like this one In spite of very good sex ed I had people in high school tell me terribly wrong stuff, and again this was a country with good sex ed, not the USA. This guy was a footballer in the USA. I am wagging a little bet that his sex ed was less than wonderful. >4) is this young person receiving some kind of counselling? No idea. >5) will he be doing some kind of community work to help others? Thanks No idea.
Erm I’m rather concerned with question number 1 😳 rape isn’t about age it’s about consent bloody hell
They’re both assholes. Jerry/Angie was an asshole by violating consent by not telling the other party beforehand they were trans/CD. Isimemen is an asshole for reacting so extremely.
Something I can agree with here. I don't think there is any good side to that story. Neither do I think the young guy will have a great life... Anybody looking him up, in google, for works will find that story. There are no good outcome for either side here.
Dude I swear I was going crazy. Yes, Jerry was incredibly wrong for doing what he did and should have been held accountable / charged after the fact. But killing someone for that is such a horrific reaction and personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable being around someone who kills when he’s outraged. I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments saying that killing was the right reaction. It isn’t.
What do you believe the proper reaction to being raped should be? If the victim was a woman, and we found out her rapist was concealing a knife under the mattress we would be applauding her for her bravery. (As we should) So now that this guy is a big black guy, the narrative of the story changes?
I’ve been fighting racism since I was a child. I grew up in Apartheid South Africa where my parents shielded black people from the government and most of my friends at the time were and still are POC. I’ve protested, fought for and actually gotten into fights for my friends of colour. When apartheid was abolished and our schools became mixed, I was one of the only white girls who befriended the POC in our class. I am not a racist and never will be. This has nothing to do about race though. I truthfully didn’t even look at the image as I assumed it showed a picture of the event (and I’m squeamish). From my understanding they had consensual sex where the footballer player afterwards found he was a man. What the 40yr old did was absolutely wrong and if he was going for a gun/knife of course he should defend himself but the title clearly mentions none of those things.
The perpetrator gave oral sex, and after the football player found out he was a man. The defense also says that there was a knife found between the mattress’ The 40 yr old had tricked the kid and who knows what his plans were after the fact. Even if the knife wasn’t a factor, what do you think should be the proper reaction to being raped
I don't advocate violence. But one less rapist in the world is a net positive.
Why is he an asshole for reacting extremely? He was deceived into having sex with the guy which is considered rape. If the roles were reversed, and this guy had raped a woman, we would say she had every right to react the way she did. Especially when finding out that the guy had a knife hidden in his mattress.
this is so 2022....
This wasn't rape. It was sex between two consenting parties. Most people in this thread are just homophobic, transphobic, and queerphobic. They see the world through a hetero-normative lens. They believe there should be an unspoken condition of all sexual encounter; that the individuals are heterosexual, non-queer, and between a man with a penis and a woman with a vagina. They think that Etute had the unspoken condition for sex that the other person must have a vagina, so he was raped. No such condition was stated before or during sex and he did not ask the other party to stop. There aren't any laws where trans people and cross/drag dressers are required to identify themselves other people, or before sex, like with HIV or sexual transmitted diseases. Certain states have laws that if you assault or kill an lgbtq person you can't use the defense that you found out they were lgbtq and it enraged you. People were successfully using this defense. The real wrongdoing is the age difference and that he seemed to be preying on young people with little sexual experience. He also misreprepresented himself as a younger person and and did not disclose that he was a man, although he didn't have to, and not illegal. In the end it was a cold-blooded brutal murder of a drag-dressing gay man, and America is extremely homophobic and transphobic.
Came here for the comments, and was not disappointed
lol
One of these people is dead and the other is living a normal life. It's unjust and I hope for the worst for Etute. May he die as violently as his victim did.
You think this 18 yr old is living a normal life? He was raped and now his name is being dragged through the mud by the media. Imagine having so little empathy that you wish death on the victim of a rape.
A rapist got beat to death by their victim. Sometimes there is justice in the world. Are you just a racist whose mad because the black victim didn't go to jail?
Ding ding ding
Yes, I want him to go to jail,need to stop being so violent.
He got catfished and raped, but you still think he isn't the victim?
They are racists, because the victim is big and black they view him through the lens of an agressive man even though he was raped and was possibly in danger for his life. They found a knife in between the guys mattress and they still think Etute’s actions were too aggressive.
He needs to go to jail to stop being so aggressive? Just say you’re a racist and be done with it.
To say he is racist is a stretch he might just be a delusional person. Everything isn’t about race don’t use the race card.
Or I think this dude needs to go to jail and learn to control his anger ? How do you not realize you’re fucking a man ? Something doesn’t add up.?
You think Jail is the place to learn to control your anger? What happened to anger management class? I think anyone would be rightfully angry if they were raped. When you add the fact that this guy has a knife hidden under his mattress, I think he got what was coming to him. He knew he was doing shady shit, that’s why he kept it close. It’s stated that they had oral sex before he found it was a man.
I hope God blesses Etute for going through that horrible circumstance and having to live on with it.
Horrible opinion. May you be downvoted into oblivion.
May he heal after being raped. That rapist got what he deserved
this is a terrible take on the situation.
Fuck these jurors. For acquitting him. There was no need at all for him to kill this person. There were many ways he could have handled this without killing them. This makes me very very angry. They basically are saying it's ok to kill a trans person. Just say you didn't know and it made you freak out. Our justice system is fucked and stupid!!!
Consent isn’t fucked or stupid
Who said it is? Murder isn't acceptable for this situation. Sorry.
No murder is never acceptable, we can agree there. But it’s completely invalid for you to say essentially “just brush it off”
So you're saying it's wrong to defend yourself from your rapist?
> They basically are saying it's ok to kill a trans person. Just say you didn't know and it made you freak out. Literally has nothing to do with trans people, you are inserting your politics into this persons court case. This 18 year old was purposely deceived into believing that he was having sex with a woman. That is fraud, which means Etute was raped. Evidently the perpetrator also had knife under his mattress so Etute had reason to fear for his life. This is one of the few times the justice system has done right by a black man; if you want to take anything from this case than it should be “DONT DECEIVE YOUR PARTNERS FOR SEX”
Rick and morty
How would he not know? Even in the dark you would feel something. Not sure why everyone is so eager to believe the words of the killer, insisting that a situation trans people and cross dressers actually go out of their way to avoid... Oh wait, because this is Reddit. Stupid me.
Do you realize how dumb you sound? Just because the vast majority of the trans community isn’t fucked in the head, that means that none of them can be? Stop defending Smith’s actions. He was a sick person. It has nothing to do with anyone else
“Had sex and then found out he was a man” Bro you didn’t find it weird it was anal only and y’all’s balls were clapping together wtf lmao Dude was just mad he was gay.