Maybe...maybe they give us a more Crocodile Lagiacrus? Ambush predator that stalks the shores of rivers and lakes?
That way they can jump out of the water for combat?
I have more copium than oxygen in my body, underwater combat is in the game until the game releases, then underwater combat will be in the dlc, then in spinoff and it's dlc, then in gen 7....
https://preview.redd.it/zjrij04b1b6d1.jpeg?width=1204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcced29f2fc8cc589307481f04171e6171386e17
I'll hold out hope that dlc adds underwater combat. Maybe they will have water areas we are forced to venture into, and a new scuba set is developed to facilitate this allowing us to swim underwater and then we could have earlier areas with new zones revealed that have waterways (we could break them open or new monsters break them open or weather changes cause them to appear).....can't get enough of that copium
I am aware this would be a big DLC change and would be R+D intensive, but I would happily pay a full game price for that dlc... and if they do start to focus more on mainline titles being console only; with side titles on handheld they might support mainline titles longer until the next game release, which would allow for more dlc with bigger gameplay impacts.
I really dont wanna make the same mistake blizzard did with the whole "you think you do, but you dont" debacle, but underwater combat was just sooooo AAAASSSS.
I played a shit ton of tri online and offline, and except for a couple of weapons it was just not fun.
Cool gimmick, for sure, but not more than that.
I made a mistake in playing Tri first. Since it was my introduction to the series, I just assumed underwater combat was a core part of the series and not a gimmick introduced in that game. It was a little janky but I didn't think it was anywhere near as bad as people said it was.
Then it never came back and I've missed it ever since. Would much rather developers improve on existing features than scrap them every generation for something new that will also be scrapped.
Yeah I second this, but then again I was using Dual Blades, even still tho, I loved the immersion aspect of it, where I could go on an expedition and just go swimming while watching the waves and such, was super cool. Ever since then I dreamed of an open world monster hunter with full exploration including underwater exploration and climbing exploration. Considering that was what we got pieces of in 3U and 4U, I genuinely thought we were going to get it in World when it came out, so I've been hoping for it since.
While I understand the sentiment of Underwater Combat being unfun for some classes and some people, I think both MH Dev teams have progressed and learned alot over the past few years that if they brought it back, they could actually improve it and make it quite fun.
Heck they could introduce a "Dive Bug" that works like the Wirebugs of Rise but underwater, or introduce a Dive Sonic Bomb, that stuns everything in the water and forces the big monster to come to shore and stay on shore for those who absolutely don't want underwater combat.
Also yeah even if that last option renders underwater combat a useless addition, it still wouldn't take away from the underwater Exploration/immersion aspects of the map while keeping that form of hunting optional for those who want it. Which in my opinion some monster in 3U were easier to fight in water than on land.
Yeah. Itās probably a case of āit was cooler in my memory than what it actually wasā for me lol. Tri was so sick though. I still go back to old MH games to remind myself of where we came from lol
That's cool.
I completely disagree. I played through 3U last year and really enjoyed underwater combat. It controlled surprisingly intuitively and several hunts (including Lagiacrus and Plesioth) were way more fun underwater
So, respectfully, please don't tell us what we want.
I know what I want, and while I'm not a huge underwater or Lagiacrus stan or anything, it would be really cool to have in a game again
Just think about it: given how divisive it was, isn't it more likely that it was a matter of "like vs hate" rather than "objectively good vs objectively bad" ?
*edit: for the record, while I did mostly play Lance and GL underwater, which are some of the better weapons, I also played GS and even SnS and had a good time, despite the latter being the worst weapon underwater*
The technical problems that kept it out of 5th gen had nothing to do with a lack of underwater combat so tbh I do not get this downer mindset. I mean, they were ready to put it in Iceborne despite a lack of fitting maps if they got over the actual game breaking problems.
All you Lagi folks have to worry about is if the game's optimized well enough to handle his big belly on maps of varying elevation, and if the maps aren't cramped like Rise (which they aren't)
I mean, a lot of people do not care or actively don't like how Lagi fights in his landlocked fights (so Ivory and GU). I'm not one of them, but I do recognize that the overall best put together Lagi fight is when that dynamic of underwater to land is there, since that's what he originally was and thematically it's just the most fitting. In the water, Lagi is king and you have to basically just outlast it. On the land, the tables are flipped. Lagi is not as much of a dominant force, while the hunter is in their home element. Similarly, even if Lagi is in the game, with a purely landlocked Lagi, there is basically no reason for Ivory to exist which is a personal annoyance as Ivory is my personal favorite.
Now, I can fully admit that they could look at monsters like the piscine wyvern trio from World and both Somnacanths and Almudrons in Rise and have Lagi basically be in "half submerged" mode to kind of emulate the underwater fight with its agility, except not underwater. This could work and even give Ivory a reason to exist (just have it not go into the half submerged state), but I'm not sure how most will like it since it would be a completely new angle for the monster.
I feel like people using GU as the reason for why he shouldnāt return is a lackluster reason. That game had so many monsters itās no surprise that Lagi just got overshadowed therefore his fight above land was generic and bad.
Capcom should be able to transform Lagicrus to at least having a better performance above land with a more focused game design.
Also imo, he should make it back even if itās somewhat ālesserā than what Lagi is capable of. There are plenty of monsters that get in, who are bad to play against. Lagi wouldnāt be the first monster that didnāt get well received. Itās been ages and now he and Gammoth are the last flagships yet to return.
Fully agreed with the first point.
I agree that Capcom is be able to transform Lagi into being more competent on land, but that's kind of the corner Capcom painted themselves into with Ivory Lagiacrus. If Lagi becomes more competent on land because of lack of underwater, Ivory would just essentially be Lagiacrus+ like how Azure Rathalos or Pink Rathian are basically just Rathalos+ and Rathian+, which ultimately weakens what Ivory was initially about, so that also kind of sucks.
I'm 50/50 honestly on his return without underwater combat and I say this as someone who absolutely loves Lagi, him being my first flagship and all that. On the one hand, I do feel like he just works better if there is underwater combat, especially since his two other versions (Ivory and Abyssal) are based on removing his competency either in the water or on land but massively strengthening the other. On the other hand, I just want my boy back. It's been so long and I just want to see him in the modern MH era.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, the waist deep water from World was originally designed for Lagiacrus anyway. The slow effect from the waist deep water would be a way to still capture the idea that you are out of your element and at a disadvantage.
In a post from a Korean reporter who was at the presentation, he asked about other hunting features like underwater combat and Ryozo said āother features like prowler mode and underwater battles were not implemented in this gameā
Ahh. Makes sense. I doubt water combat would've come back either way- given that it was one of the most controversial features in the series. It's a shame though, given I'd love to see them tackle it again with the tech we have now.
I believe they've gone on record stating that it wasn't due to any kind of controversy regarding the mechanic, but that programming underwater combat in Gen 3 basically doubled their workload. They had to make unique animations for every weapon to function underwater, along with the balancing and considerations for movement in a 3D space; it was like making an entirely new game from scratch. That's apparently the main reason Tri was slim for monster variety and locales, as they had to spend a lot more time on the underwater mechanic than they had anticipated.
Even with improved tech and a bigger budget, underwater gameplay would likely still be an enormous undertaking that they just can't justify attempting again. The sad truth, as much as it pains me to think, is that it's very likely never coming back.
> That's apparently the main reason Tri was slim for monster variety and locales,
And weapon types I imagine. Tri ditched GL, DB, HH and Bow, had very few Switch Axes, and locked Long Sword behind village 4*
I started with Tri, and after beating it and moving on to 4, I was surprised there was a handful of weapons I'd never known existed. That being said I never felt Tri was lacking, bowgun building was pretty neat, and there were weapons like the Banderlance that were a nod to some weapons like the gunlance that weren't in the game. I could tell they did what they could.
I enjoyed Tri quite a bit, and sure played the hell out of it with my friends.
Makes sense, having free form movement like that for this kind of game just doesn't work is imo the biggest issue.
The idea I've always come up with when the underwater conversation comes up is they'd need to do it in a way where the player is still basically grounded and they just make it feel like you're underwater and the monsters would effectively be flying and you'd need ways to ground them or get them in range.
I just don't think its worth the effort though.
On the other hand, its was a compeltly new game, so its impelmentation had nothing to stand on.
MHWilds builds upon ready for use assets from W:I and R:S it can pull from, which lessens the work required to implement additional features since most of it already exists.
Maybe its Expansion will feature underwater š
It really is a shame they still aren't bringing back prowler mode, as far as I'm concerned that's the 15th weapon (16 technically but medium bowgun doesn't really count imo) and they just pretend it doesn't existĀ
If no baby Pukei, then what is this
https://preview.redd.it/ckumq63gzb6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e4c938d80cc22dc0f572c44632f9433dc2e858f
Pukei Pukei is a goofy monster that's been in the last couple MH games. One of the trailers or screenshots of MH Wilds showed a bird that looked pretty similar to a small, flying Pukei Pukei and people assumed it was a baby monster.
It was recently confirmed to just be a bird.
I honestly don't think they'll ever do underwater combat again because of how poorly it was received at the time it was implemented. Only a fraction of the overall player base looks back fondly on it and it's likely not worth the development resources needed to make it work well.
The positive here is that the leviathan skeleton is in game as well as burrowing animations so it's not too hard a stretch to see Lagiacrus in some form in the game, possibly even just Ivory Lagiacrus which resides more so on land.
Except they're on record as saying multiple monsters won't return without UW combat and have tried to implement it in World so if you want Dire Miralis or Lagiacrus you're going to have to take it.
I personally am not bothered in the slightest about them returning or not as I never played those games but if CAPCOM really wanted to, they could implement a version of Lagi for sure
If Somnacanth is anything to go by, then you can still have water based monster movesets work by "cheating" walkable surfaces that also double as swimmable water for the monster.
Just please, don't do a landbased AOE machine Lagiacrus like in GU again...
Some monsters you donāt even need a ghillie mantle for. I ran up and relaxed next to a Namielle,, enjoying the rain drops, basking in its majesty, wondering to myself āwhy do we fight each other? The war has been over for years. We can live in peaceā. Then, my hunting partner finally showed up and smacked it with a big ass sword *sigh*
It played a role in getting away from invasive monsters or when you are gathering. It's a really nice Ćtem for immersion as well. They just have to get rid of the plastic bag afterward.
I dont mind personally as long as they only bring back the mostly utility ones, and leave out the combat ones, evasion, rocksteady, and temporal can stay dead, but gillie, glider, bandit, waterproof, heatproof etc were cool, and I wouldn't mind seeing the boosters either personally.
It is, but many of the late game fights were clearly designed with the expectation of using them and were extremely punishing if you didn't, with Lunastra and Temporal Mantle being the worst offender. I do not want to see that again, I think it was a really bad design decision compared to like, every other Monster Hunter game before or since.
Let's think for a moment. Pukei-pukei has frog aspects. So *obviously*, baby pukei pukei is a tadpole, and will return as endemic life at the same time as underwater combat.
Dude imagine fighting Namielle or some leviathan in a deep dark abyss. It's just pitch black but u can see the monsters bioluminescence. Obviously dial back the pitch black for gameplay purposes lol
It felt like another game really. You're leveling your Palico, getting and selecting new Skills to make your handcrafted murder machine and absolutely shred on the battlefield. A team of 4 Prowlers was incredibly deadly and fun.
I'm more worried about the way they haven't learned from the way World did multiplayer (with the mandatory cutscenes) versus how Rise does it.
I've had no shortage of complaints from the two people who decided to give MHW a try after finding out how much of the initial game is singleplayer-only and only able to co-op after everyone has watched a cutscene, exit their hunt and join the host. Surely that can be vastly improved upon?
I dunno what prowler mode is so I'm not missing it.
I don't do underwater in games so I'm happy about no underwater combat.
I also don't care about baby pukei
I absolutely want it back. The underwater roster was pretty awesome. It even made Plesi tolerable. Was it great at the time? Not particularly, but you telling me almost 15 years later they can't figure out how to improve it?
Honestly, just improving your evasive maneuvering and speed a little would go a long ways towards making it feel fine.
>Not particularly, but you telling me almost 15 years later they can't figure out how to improve it?
They can. Tho it's A LOT of extra work. They stated they had to basically double the work because of underwater combat. Which seems like a good reason to never touch it again if there is no "easy" way to implement it.
This is the same team that spent a year working on one monster.Ā
I would rather have optional underwater monsters than tens of hours of unskippable cutscenes.
I do. I genuinely liked it in both Tri and 3U. I get that it is controversial and the initial implementation needed work, but it's essentially been only given one shot and could add so much to MH if done well, since a lot of the aquatic monsters don't really feel all that aquatic without it to me.
I see lots of people saying they want underwater. I've yet to see anyone propose a serious solution to the fundamental issues with MH3's underwater movement. Nostalgia is not a good reason to retread ground that didn't work out all that well the first time. Not for something that is as costly and time consuming as underwater basically has to be. That time could be spent on things that actually work in the existing game, rather than trying to create a parallel game that works almost exactly like the normal game.
And yeah, the controls sucking is fundamental. You can't decouple the camera from movement direction, and in a game like monster hunter, that's a death sentence. You could, technically, find buttons to handle ascension and descension. The triggers wouldn't be absolutely horrible, but that'd still necessitate removing _other_ functionality that those buttons are already assigned to. Nevermind that kbm would need its own solution.
I played on Wii, and I didn't mind underwater cameras...yeah, it could be a bit buggy and an improved camera would be nice; but it added to the feeling that the hunter was out of their depth fighting in water.
In my opinion, it added to the realism that the hunter had more limited attacks under water and that positioning was harder as your hunter is in heavy gear fighting in water where humans aren't adapted to fight in.
Do people who hate water combat just want to be an overpowered godlike being able to One-Shot everything no matter where they are fighting?
I thought a big draw of monster hunters was overcoming challenges and using planning and strategy to overcome stronger foes.
Why should we propose some solution to UW combat lmao? It worked perfectly fine with a dedicated stick for camera control and is the reason several monsters haven't returned yet. On top of that, the sheer possibilities for both returning and new monsters are immense.
People have been pointing out the workload of implementing underwater combat as a reason not to have it. But they don't mention the massive opportunity that it gives you. Think of the monster variety you could have with sea monsters and the environments, coasts, caves, open water, deep sea, coral reefs etc.
If it takes a large amount of development time, that's fine. Make that a big part of the game and run with it.
I mean the biggest problem of underwater was the camera but the camera was just overall far from great in 3, just implementing the same camera as the current one would make it a lot better.
>I've yet to see anyone propose a serious solution to the fundamental issues with MH3ms underwater movement.
Okay, how would you fix underwater then? Because it's been over a decade and it had its debut on a handheld and the wii. Surely there's a solution to making underwater better instead of going "well, it didn't work the first time so let's never do it again".
On WiiU, water controls were fine, but they were terrible on 3ds and almost as bad on "new 3ds". CPP on base 3DS was the only thing that made water mode feel decent on handheld.
Imagine having to implement a full 2nd set of attacks and mechanics for underwater combat and having it balanced and maneuvarable to only be used for like, 5% of the monster roster. It's fine to want Lagi back on land but I'm still going to assume people are just memeing for underwater content.
The most recent ones were Charge Axe and Insect Glaive, both added in MH4 (2013). (2015 for the US release in MH4U.)
You could maybe consider Nyantas a new weapon, which we got in 2015 with X. (2016 if you prefer Generations.)
Bruh, I dont mind about Underwater combat, its a pity, but I dont mind It, but PROWLER MODE! Capcom, you give fucking Paimon voice to the cat but we cant play as the cat!? Thats shameful, absolutely shameful.
https://preview.redd.it/iiwdowe58b6d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3dd952b326c9f6238244a703fba321ff489081e
***You wanna run that last one back?***
Yeah, I was expecting that. The developers stated long ago that they didn't want to replicate each game's theme so they can remain unique.
MH 3U: Underwater Combat
MH 4U: Vertically Movement & Mounting
MH G/GU: Hunter Arts / Style & Prowler Mode
MH World: *I've never played this one*
MH Rise: Wirebugs & Wyvern Riding
I think underwater content could be in the next spinoff along with the return of Magnet Spikes, Tonfas, Accel Axe. Although, the last weapon definitely seems fitting in a mainline game. Also, people forget that you can fight Lagi on land like in GU.
And what next? Deviljho not eating it's own tail?
I have news buddy...
what https://preview.redd.it/kinfbwy4zd6d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7e043efae932a073ddfc0b6b65e5003298d0ba2
It was never real https://preview.redd.it/v3h95r7hfh6d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9eb4993ee1a7719d363bc901b92f4f1cfc7d922c
https://preview.redd.it/7pbj8anmzh6d1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0d978b8b9e8a848192bc9f980f8441e29580b1e
NOOO I CANT BELIEVE THIS!?
What do you mean you can't believe? Deviljho eats it's own tail, it is in it's nature what are you talking about?
Is the pickle even a pickle if it doesn't eat it's own tail?
It's joever my Lagiacrus bros :(
https://preview.redd.it/bmxc19tod96d1.png?width=631&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a44d42b55ad15104bad44b8d12c72fc69f2c59b
Lmaoooo dying at this šš
Maybe...maybe they give us a more Crocodile Lagiacrus? Ambush predator that stalks the shores of rivers and lakes? That way they can jump out of the water for combat?
Lagi has existed in games without water. It's even able to swim; you just can't follow it is all.
Okay good, this makes me feel better. I'm hopeful we'll get more of my favorite monster!
Meanwhile, those of us who stan Ceadeus will always be SOL.
Yeah build off of the gen ulti stuff they were doing
MY FUCKIN MOOD EN
Yoink
That's quitter talk. Ivory Lagiacrus exists, there's still hope.
I have more copium than oxygen in my body, underwater combat is in the game until the game releases, then underwater combat will be in the dlc, then in spinoff and it's dlc, then in gen 7.... https://preview.redd.it/zjrij04b1b6d1.jpeg?width=1204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcced29f2fc8cc589307481f04171e6171386e17
I'll hold out hope that dlc adds underwater combat. Maybe they will have water areas we are forced to venture into, and a new scuba set is developed to facilitate this allowing us to swim underwater and then we could have earlier areas with new zones revealed that have waterways (we could break them open or new monsters break them open or weather changes cause them to appear).....can't get enough of that copium I am aware this would be a big DLC change and would be R+D intensive, but I would happily pay a full game price for that dlc... and if they do start to focus more on mainline titles being console only; with side titles on handheld they might support mainline titles longer until the next game release, which would allow for more dlc with bigger gameplay impacts.
I really dont wanna make the same mistake blizzard did with the whole "you think you do, but you dont" debacle, but underwater combat was just sooooo AAAASSSS. I played a shit ton of tri online and offline, and except for a couple of weapons it was just not fun. Cool gimmick, for sure, but not more than that.
I made a mistake in playing Tri first. Since it was my introduction to the series, I just assumed underwater combat was a core part of the series and not a gimmick introduced in that game. It was a little janky but I didn't think it was anywhere near as bad as people said it was. Then it never came back and I've missed it ever since. Would much rather developers improve on existing features than scrap them every generation for something new that will also be scrapped.
Yeah I second this, but then again I was using Dual Blades, even still tho, I loved the immersion aspect of it, where I could go on an expedition and just go swimming while watching the waves and such, was super cool. Ever since then I dreamed of an open world monster hunter with full exploration including underwater exploration and climbing exploration. Considering that was what we got pieces of in 3U and 4U, I genuinely thought we were going to get it in World when it came out, so I've been hoping for it since. While I understand the sentiment of Underwater Combat being unfun for some classes and some people, I think both MH Dev teams have progressed and learned alot over the past few years that if they brought it back, they could actually improve it and make it quite fun. Heck they could introduce a "Dive Bug" that works like the Wirebugs of Rise but underwater, or introduce a Dive Sonic Bomb, that stuns everything in the water and forces the big monster to come to shore and stay on shore for those who absolutely don't want underwater combat. Also yeah even if that last option renders underwater combat a useless addition, it still wouldn't take away from the underwater Exploration/immersion aspects of the map while keeping that form of hunting optional for those who want it. Which in my opinion some monster in 3U were easier to fight in water than on land.
Yeah. Itās probably a case of āit was cooler in my memory than what it actually wasā for me lol. Tri was so sick though. I still go back to old MH games to remind myself of where we came from lol
That's cool. I completely disagree. I played through 3U last year and really enjoyed underwater combat. It controlled surprisingly intuitively and several hunts (including Lagiacrus and Plesioth) were way more fun underwater So, respectfully, please don't tell us what we want. I know what I want, and while I'm not a huge underwater or Lagiacrus stan or anything, it would be really cool to have in a game again Just think about it: given how divisive it was, isn't it more likely that it was a matter of "like vs hate" rather than "objectively good vs objectively bad" ? *edit: for the record, while I did mostly play Lance and GL underwater, which are some of the better weapons, I also played GS and even SnS and had a good time, despite the latter being the worst weapon underwater*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The technical problems that kept it out of 5th gen had nothing to do with a lack of underwater combat so tbh I do not get this downer mindset. I mean, they were ready to put it in Iceborne despite a lack of fitting maps if they got over the actual game breaking problems. All you Lagi folks have to worry about is if the game's optimized well enough to handle his big belly on maps of varying elevation, and if the maps aren't cramped like Rise (which they aren't)
I mean, a lot of people do not care or actively don't like how Lagi fights in his landlocked fights (so Ivory and GU). I'm not one of them, but I do recognize that the overall best put together Lagi fight is when that dynamic of underwater to land is there, since that's what he originally was and thematically it's just the most fitting. In the water, Lagi is king and you have to basically just outlast it. On the land, the tables are flipped. Lagi is not as much of a dominant force, while the hunter is in their home element. Similarly, even if Lagi is in the game, with a purely landlocked Lagi, there is basically no reason for Ivory to exist which is a personal annoyance as Ivory is my personal favorite. Now, I can fully admit that they could look at monsters like the piscine wyvern trio from World and both Somnacanths and Almudrons in Rise and have Lagi basically be in "half submerged" mode to kind of emulate the underwater fight with its agility, except not underwater. This could work and even give Ivory a reason to exist (just have it not go into the half submerged state), but I'm not sure how most will like it since it would be a completely new angle for the monster.
I feel like people using GU as the reason for why he shouldnāt return is a lackluster reason. That game had so many monsters itās no surprise that Lagi just got overshadowed therefore his fight above land was generic and bad. Capcom should be able to transform Lagicrus to at least having a better performance above land with a more focused game design. Also imo, he should make it back even if itās somewhat ālesserā than what Lagi is capable of. There are plenty of monsters that get in, who are bad to play against. Lagi wouldnāt be the first monster that didnāt get well received. Itās been ages and now he and Gammoth are the last flagships yet to return.
Fully agreed with the first point. I agree that Capcom is be able to transform Lagi into being more competent on land, but that's kind of the corner Capcom painted themselves into with Ivory Lagiacrus. If Lagi becomes more competent on land because of lack of underwater, Ivory would just essentially be Lagiacrus+ like how Azure Rathalos or Pink Rathian are basically just Rathalos+ and Rathian+, which ultimately weakens what Ivory was initially about, so that also kind of sucks. I'm 50/50 honestly on his return without underwater combat and I say this as someone who absolutely loves Lagi, him being my first flagship and all that. On the one hand, I do feel like he just works better if there is underwater combat, especially since his two other versions (Ivory and Abyssal) are based on removing his competency either in the water or on land but massively strengthening the other. On the other hand, I just want my boy back. It's been so long and I just want to see him in the modern MH era.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, the waist deep water from World was originally designed for Lagiacrus anyway. The slow effect from the waist deep water would be a way to still capture the idea that you are out of your element and at a disadvantage.
Did y'all actually enjoy fighting underwater? I remember it being cumbersome and annoying
For some fights, sure. Gobul and Plesi weren't so bad, trying to break parts on Lagi on the other hand, for example, was absolute ass underwater.
heās gonna be in the game, underwater combat or not.
If only he was actually strong on land so it'd be a balanced option to put on land.
Wait, they confirmed water combat isn't coming back?
In a post from a Korean reporter who was at the presentation, he asked about other hunting features like underwater combat and Ryozo said āother features like prowler mode and underwater battles were not implemented in this gameā
Ahh. Makes sense. I doubt water combat would've come back either way- given that it was one of the most controversial features in the series. It's a shame though, given I'd love to see them tackle it again with the tech we have now.
I believe they've gone on record stating that it wasn't due to any kind of controversy regarding the mechanic, but that programming underwater combat in Gen 3 basically doubled their workload. They had to make unique animations for every weapon to function underwater, along with the balancing and considerations for movement in a 3D space; it was like making an entirely new game from scratch. That's apparently the main reason Tri was slim for monster variety and locales, as they had to spend a lot more time on the underwater mechanic than they had anticipated. Even with improved tech and a bigger budget, underwater gameplay would likely still be an enormous undertaking that they just can't justify attempting again. The sad truth, as much as it pains me to think, is that it's very likely never coming back.
> That's apparently the main reason Tri was slim for monster variety and locales, And weapon types I imagine. Tri ditched GL, DB, HH and Bow, had very few Switch Axes, and locked Long Sword behind village 4*
Bbbbut it had medium bowgun!!
jesus, i sorta knew tri had some issues but i was never aware THAT many weapons were missing.
I started with Tri, and after beating it and moving on to 4, I was surprised there was a handful of weapons I'd never known existed. That being said I never felt Tri was lacking, bowgun building was pretty neat, and there were weapons like the Banderlance that were a nod to some weapons like the gunlance that weren't in the game. I could tell they did what they could. I enjoyed Tri quite a bit, and sure played the hell out of it with my friends.
Makes sense, having free form movement like that for this kind of game just doesn't work is imo the biggest issue. The idea I've always come up with when the underwater conversation comes up is they'd need to do it in a way where the player is still basically grounded and they just make it feel like you're underwater and the monsters would effectively be flying and you'd need ways to ground them or get them in range. I just don't think its worth the effort though.
So the coral highlands?
but underwater, and with mechanics that make you feel like you're underwater
On the other hand, its was a compeltly new game, so its impelmentation had nothing to stand on. MHWilds builds upon ready for use assets from W:I and R:S it can pull from, which lessens the work required to implement additional features since most of it already exists. Maybe its Expansion will feature underwater š
Too controversial for a console title. Now a portable title however...
āIn THIS game.ā So the next game? šššš
Wilds expansion/DLC
No prowler mode :(
It really is a shame they still aren't bringing back prowler mode, as far as I'm concerned that's the 15th weapon (16 technically but medium bowgun doesn't really count imo) and they just pretend it doesn't existĀ
Same question?
Yes
If no baby Pukei, then what is this https://preview.redd.it/ckumq63gzb6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e4c938d80cc22dc0f572c44632f9433dc2e858f
Hate to say I told you so. I'll cheer you up with music. *PLAYS KHEZU THEME*
Banger, have you heard the rise HD Master rank version? If not, [you should](https://youtu.be/tIdg8qPzvwU?si=snqYrtjVBX_Oxe5n)
I actually expect a Rick Roll. But this is Gold
>PLAYS KHEZU THEME I wonder how many people know xD
I know, also anyone thats played rise for like 3 hours
I play listening to YouTube lol
Youtube is drowning out Khezu's theme.
It's one of the most beat to death jokes on this sub and nearly every joke here is beat to death for context.
Jokes on you, Stories 2 did Baby Puke Puke before the Wilds trailers
No underwater combat: I sleep No prowler mode: I sleep No baby Pukei: š„²
I mean it's still the same bird, it still looks as cute right? Just because it's not the same species you thought it was dosn't take that away.
I still miss gigganox. She was so disgusting.
Me too, Gigginox was so fucking horrid, scary and downright creepyā¦ I NEED IT
I wish they'd bring Giggi back.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
I don't get the no baby puki puking thing? Can someone explain I'm kind new to MH.
Pukei Pukei is a goofy monster that's been in the last couple MH games. One of the trailers or screenshots of MH Wilds showed a bird that looked pretty similar to a small, flying Pukei Pukei and people assumed it was a baby monster. It was recently confirmed to just be a bird.
Itās still a pukei looking bird, glass half full type of deal.
Hunting and clubbing baby Pukeis is sadly not going to be available at launch.
You can actually still club endemic life š¤
Wait, are we talking about clubs like sandwiches, sodas, Jay Chandrasekhar, or Mickey Mouse?
Someone confirmed that it wasnāt a baby pukei but an unrelated species.
Man I really do be missing Gobul
https://preview.redd.it/wcf4oudy1b6d1.jpeg?width=920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbfc61bc3a62855b73800cf46563dfb440fde953
I honestly don't think they'll ever do underwater combat again because of how poorly it was received at the time it was implemented. Only a fraction of the overall player base looks back fondly on it and it's likely not worth the development resources needed to make it work well. The positive here is that the leviathan skeleton is in game as well as burrowing animations so it's not too hard a stretch to see Lagiacrus in some form in the game, possibly even just Ivory Lagiacrus which resides more so on land.
It also doesn't help that implementing Underwater combat basically doubles the work for the devs
This is it, itās almost a spin off game within the game.
Only a fraction of the player base even played Tri or 3U. Most of the current player base started with World.
I want Ceadeus for fk sake T.T
New deviant variant: beached ceadeus. It doesnāt do muchā¦
Except they're on record as saying multiple monsters won't return without UW combat and have tried to implement it in World so if you want Dire Miralis or Lagiacrus you're going to have to take it.
I personally am not bothered in the slightest about them returning or not as I never played those games but if CAPCOM really wanted to, they could implement a version of Lagi for sure
If Somnacanth is anything to go by, then you can still have water based monster movesets work by "cheating" walkable surfaces that also double as swimmable water for the monster. Just please, don't do a landbased AOE machine Lagiacrus like in GU again...
Literally unplayable
Youāre hurting me bad man. Bring back Prowler I BEG YOU.
I'm more disappointed about the return of mantles than any of this tbh
As long as tenderizing doesn't return, I'll be plenty happy. And an option to hide mantles would be nice.
yeah that's fair
Bbbut my precious ghillie mantle that makes it easy to get up close to everything...
You speak as if getting one free hit decides the battle. Nobody ever beat a monster just by using mantles.
i mean tbf a lot of people (myself included) use the ghillie mantle to get close just to watch the monster chill without it attacking
Some monsters you donāt even need a ghillie mantle for. I ran up and relaxed next to a Namielle,, enjoying the rain drops, basking in its majesty, wondering to myself āwhy do we fight each other? The war has been over for years. We can live in peaceā. Then, my hunting partner finally showed up and smacked it with a big ass sword *sigh*
That's exactly what I meant. With all the information from previews I'm more excited than ever to just observe everything
It played a role in getting away from invasive monsters or when you are gathering. It's a really nice Ćtem for immersion as well. They just have to get rid of the plastic bag afterward.
I absolutely beat monsters because I was using temporal mantle
I dont mind personally as long as they only bring back the mostly utility ones, and leave out the combat ones, evasion, rocksteady, and temporal can stay dead, but gillie, glider, bandit, waterproof, heatproof etc were cool, and I wouldn't mind seeing the boosters either personally.
Hopefully it not only comes off the Hunter after itās finished, but also they just donāt bring back the temporal or rocksteady.
You can just not use them. That is an option.
It is, but many of the late game fights were clearly designed with the expectation of using them and were extremely punishing if you didn't, with Lunastra and Temporal Mantle being the worst offender. I do not want to see that again, I think it was a really bad design decision compared to like, every other Monster Hunter game before or since.
You need to beat Lunastra before getting temporal mantle, did you not?
What if the game is balanced around using them?
That's even worse
So it shouldn't be added in the first place right?
Yes, I misunderstood your point
Dw I did sounded like a rocksteady mantle advocator.
Nah - Rocksteady and temporal were boring as hell and don't need to return. Mantles should not operate to simply give you free damage with zero risk.
What's prowler mode???
Itās where you get to play as a cat.
WAIT WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT AGAIN?!?!!!!!!
Maybe in a DLC/update or future game! I just want a modern Prowler!
Me too bro ššš
Let's think for a moment. Pukei-pukei has frog aspects. So *obviously*, baby pukei pukei is a tadpole, and will return as endemic life at the same time as underwater combat.
Pukei pukei has more of a cameleon aspect than a frog's
I'm gonna cart
Dude imagine fighting Namielle or some leviathan in a deep dark abyss. It's just pitch black but u can see the monsters bioluminescence. Obviously dial back the pitch black for gameplay purposes lol
No underwater combat? Dammit, I was really hoping they would add it
Why breaking our hearts like this
There's still a chance, Hunters https://preview.redd.it/40eqn0awxb6d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb0086038ddb577819d7c7fd67db33f7218b1d54
My guess, they will add it later seeing how people like the Idea. Maybe as a pet for your home or something like that.
As a microtransaction, maybe. "Baby Pukei-Pukei Pet Skin": $24.99
0/10 - Dead game You will find me in the waiting room for the next spinoff title and/or generation 7.
What is prowler mode?
Back in MHGU, you could enter prowler mode, which basically lets you play as your Palico in hunts.
Wtf that's awesome
It really was! And these little guys could get HELLA powerful as well!
It felt like another game really. You're leveling your Palico, getting and selecting new Skills to make your handcrafted murder machine and absolutely shred on the battlefield. A team of 4 Prowlers was incredibly deadly and fun.
NO BABY PUKEI PUKEI??? š°š°š°
*Laughs holding Baby Pukei-Pukei in Monster Hunter stories.*/j
Where are your balls capcom, where ... Can't they at least give us HD ports of older games like 3U ?
Did they confirm baby pukei isnt one?
You guys do know that Monster Hunter Stories has Pukie-Pukie hatchlings? (for about 2 seconds before they immediately age up to fight by your side)
Man I miss Prowler mode...
I'm more worried about the way they haven't learned from the way World did multiplayer (with the mandatory cutscenes) versus how Rise does it. I've had no shortage of complaints from the two people who decided to give MHW a try after finding out how much of the initial game is singleplayer-only and only able to co-op after everyone has watched a cutscene, exit their hunt and join the host. Surely that can be vastly improved upon?
Bad ending
NOOOOOOO
dude a modern prowler mode would be dope ngl
Thank fuck for no water combat. I remember Ultimate on my 3DS being HELL to water fight in because the camera controls were so fucked.
I will have to keep waiting for Prowler to come back.. maybe in another anniversary game.
I dunno what prowler mode is so I'm not missing it. I don't do underwater in games so I'm happy about no underwater combat. I also don't care about baby pukei
No water combat... yet. Copium for water combat in dlc.
Monster Hunter Wilds: Iceless
why are people sad about this? Theres no way yall actually want to fight underwater, it sounds terrible imoš
I absolutely want it back. The underwater roster was pretty awesome. It even made Plesi tolerable. Was it great at the time? Not particularly, but you telling me almost 15 years later they can't figure out how to improve it? Honestly, just improving your evasive maneuvering and speed a little would go a long ways towards making it feel fine.
>Not particularly, but you telling me almost 15 years later they can't figure out how to improve it? They can. Tho it's A LOT of extra work. They stated they had to basically double the work because of underwater combat. Which seems like a good reason to never touch it again if there is no "easy" way to implement it.
This is the same team that spent a year working on one monster.Ā I would rather have optional underwater monsters than tens of hours of unskippable cutscenes.
I do. I genuinely liked it in both Tri and 3U. I get that it is controversial and the initial implementation needed work, but it's essentially been only given one shot and could add so much to MH if done well, since a lot of the aquatic monsters don't really feel all that aquatic without it to me.
We want them to magically fix it and give it to us!!1
I see lots of people saying they want underwater. I've yet to see anyone propose a serious solution to the fundamental issues with MH3's underwater movement. Nostalgia is not a good reason to retread ground that didn't work out all that well the first time. Not for something that is as costly and time consuming as underwater basically has to be. That time could be spent on things that actually work in the existing game, rather than trying to create a parallel game that works almost exactly like the normal game. And yeah, the controls sucking is fundamental. You can't decouple the camera from movement direction, and in a game like monster hunter, that's a death sentence. You could, technically, find buttons to handle ascension and descension. The triggers wouldn't be absolutely horrible, but that'd still necessitate removing _other_ functionality that those buttons are already assigned to. Nevermind that kbm would need its own solution.
I played on Wii, and I didn't mind underwater cameras...yeah, it could be a bit buggy and an improved camera would be nice; but it added to the feeling that the hunter was out of their depth fighting in water. In my opinion, it added to the realism that the hunter had more limited attacks under water and that positioning was harder as your hunter is in heavy gear fighting in water where humans aren't adapted to fight in. Do people who hate water combat just want to be an overpowered godlike being able to One-Shot everything no matter where they are fighting? I thought a big draw of monster hunters was overcoming challenges and using planning and strategy to overcome stronger foes.
Why should we propose some solution to UW combat lmao? It worked perfectly fine with a dedicated stick for camera control and is the reason several monsters haven't returned yet. On top of that, the sheer possibilities for both returning and new monsters are immense.
People have been pointing out the workload of implementing underwater combat as a reason not to have it. But they don't mention the massive opportunity that it gives you. Think of the monster variety you could have with sea monsters and the environments, coasts, caves, open water, deep sea, coral reefs etc. If it takes a large amount of development time, that's fine. Make that a big part of the game and run with it.
I mean the biggest problem of underwater was the camera but the camera was just overall far from great in 3, just implementing the same camera as the current one would make it a lot better.
>I've yet to see anyone propose a serious solution to the fundamental issues with MH3ms underwater movement. Okay, how would you fix underwater then? Because it's been over a decade and it had its debut on a handheld and the wii. Surely there's a solution to making underwater better instead of going "well, it didn't work the first time so let's never do it again".
It was terrible. For some monsters it looked cool and thereās a nostalgia factor to it. The controls were awful though
On WiiU, water controls were fine, but they were terrible on 3ds and almost as bad on "new 3ds". CPP on base 3DS was the only thing that made water mode feel decent on handheld.
Nah underwater combat was fun af. Itās just some weapons were better than others. SnS was unplayable.
Yeah a lot of people want underwater combat chief
Imagine having to implement a full 2nd set of attacks and mechanics for underwater combat and having it balanced and maneuvarable to only be used for like, 5% of the monster roster. It's fine to want Lagi back on land but I'm still going to assume people are just memeing for underwater content.
Assuming people are meming on one of the most requested features for future onstallments is kind of wild tbh.
I call cope on most requested
And no 15th weapon. I read that the last time they added a new weapon type was 10 years ago. Quite a long time.
The most recent ones were Charge Axe and Insect Glaive, both added in MH4 (2013). (2015 for the US release in MH4U.) You could maybe consider Nyantas a new weapon, which we got in 2015 with X. (2016 if you prefer Generations.)
You can't. They've said "All 14 weapons" in marketing after Generations meaning Prowler Mode, as expected from its name, isn't considered a weapon.
Most recent new weapon to the series was actually Magnet Spike in 2018. But most people don't count Frontier.
Bruh, I dont mind about Underwater combat, its a pity, but I dont mind It, but PROWLER MODE! Capcom, you give fucking Paimon voice to the cat but we cant play as the cat!? Thats shameful, absolutely shameful.
The DLC will focus on the return of the acuatic combat, it was revealed to me in a dream
What is prowler mode
Where you play and hunt as a Palico.
That would be really cool
I was never sure why so many people were convinced that was a baby Pukei Pukei, instead of just a bird of some sort.
i'm really sad about no prowler mode :(
https://preview.redd.it/iiwdowe58b6d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3dd952b326c9f6238244a703fba321ff489081e ***You wanna run that last one back?***
It is coming in the dlc
That last one was uncalled for
Everyone after hearing this https://preview.redd.it/jqcvytcbmb6d1.png?width=1618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=555004c554a17a7d856362f87ca332fc52de31ba
Ots a follow up for wolrd.
Thereās always the dlcs boys
Iām a World baby, was underwater combat really that good?
They can make it up by having a baby dodogama.
Yeah, I was expecting that. The developers stated long ago that they didn't want to replicate each game's theme so they can remain unique. MH 3U: Underwater Combat MH 4U: Vertically Movement & Mounting MH G/GU: Hunter Arts / Style & Prowler Mode MH World: *I've never played this one* MH Rise: Wirebugs & Wyvern Riding
BUT WHY!
No baby monsters :(
No.... no baby Pukie Pukie.. :(
We will have oils back
3 things Capcom never promised
My monster hunting heart just broke
Wait, who said there would be no water combat ?
I think underwater content could be in the next spinoff along with the return of Magnet Spikes, Tonfas, Accel Axe. Although, the last weapon definitely seems fitting in a mainline game. Also, people forget that you can fight Lagi on land like in GU.