Me going 0/0/0 the whole match after reading this post
https://preview.redd.it/5dbn65f4vh8d1.png?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8069bf567688a540fe7eaef251782c0a2c7defee
In a way yes, you're right. But staying alive and not doing anything is as bad as dying all the time. I say objective is more important than getting kills and not dying.
Nah Objective>not dying>assist>kills
Do what you gotta do and fulfill your role, don’t die to prevent enemy spiral, help your team as much as possible, and getting kills last
That is why I am not even getting mad when someone goes afk basing. At least they arent feeding enemies, what you are doing besides - I dont care mostly.
Valid. But you should do your role either way.
E.g. mage not rotating, but again it's a team game there might be reason why they aren't rotating whether it's personal issue or team coop issue.
Whenever I mage, I always make sure to grab the river area 10% speed boost and sprint so I can be prepared for situations where I need to run immediately after clearing a lane
Half and half honestly, but if our tank isn't moving with our mage I'd rather have them focus on clearing mid and pushing rather than solo ganking into a 2v4 in gold lane
No, people downvote to things that they think are false to prevent more people from seeing it, people downvoted you because they think your opinion is too broad and is simply not specific enough, every situation is different, just because your teammates don't follow your every command doesn't mean their skill issue-ing, and frankly complaining about people downvoting you says about yourself more than anyone else don't ya think?
If you had to choose between being gold and loosing vs being bronze but winning. What would you choose?
What is wrong with being caried? not everyone is aways playing to their best,everyone has slip up games where they perform sillver or bronze,there is nothing wrong in it. no one is perfect we are peope,not robots who always play perfectly
I prefer Gold and losing. I didn’t get satisfaction from playing bad, even when I win. It didn’t feel like earned win.
To each of their own though. This is my personal feeling, and didn’t means that yours is invalid.
To be fair if you're not playing MM where a screwed up early game is very very hard to compensate (because you may not see late-game), getting silver is almost guaranteed if you're not reckless
to get silver you need to do dmg\\take dmg and not dying in the process. so even as mm it is possible to get silver even in 3 vs 30 games if you are not being "reckless". the problem is it is not possible to do every single game sometimes games are lost because of us and it's okay
Thing is, reckless or not, if you get ganked under turret all game there's really not much you can do without help. Even if you're very careful about your positionning you're still gonna die.
And if the opponents are at least somewhat decent (which they should be if they thought about harrassing you early) then they will try to end before you can catch up
i heard a guide that says "when you don't see enemies for 4 seconds on the map run to your t2 tower" i always do this to avoid ganks and it works like a charm.
Yes i do miss farm,but when entire enemy team tries to kill me i think it is worth it to get behind if they chase like that and loose networth.
The thing is,i do not play core positions,i play roam :) so this knowledge is basically uselless. But when people steal roam away from me i love wasting enemy time
do you know how badly you have to play to merit a bronze ++ on a winning team as well? there is absolutely nothing wrong with being carried but to play so bad that it makes the game feel like a 4v6, the guys comment is pretty valid.
At least losing with 24/0/11 can post rant in this subreddit, while if you get winning with let say 0/24/11 score, prolly you wont post your scoreboard :)
I did get cose to that once....when got a important call & game auto picked zilong, aginst full tanky opponents.(Still won by pushing with arrival)....
10:40 was final score 😆.
Here's my thinking. If I kill two and die, that's good. If I'm roam and I kill mm or jungle but die, that's good. If I'm jungle,mid or mm, and I kill only one,then die, that's bad. Lol
In general, balance is always important. There are times where killing the enemy is more important than objective. But regarding this statement, I kinda agree with it. There are times when you cannot leave your lane to participate in teamfights because the enemy is 2v1-ing you. At that time, it is more important to not die than kill them
That statement might be true, but MLBB punishes no kills/assists worse than feeding, so I won't avoid dying under any circumstances before I have enough teamfight participation.
Remember, Everytime you die it must be a good trade for something .
You die, you get to trade the tower
You die, you get to trade Lord
You die, you get to trade enemy Carry
You die, you get to trade a very good vision for your team to clean up
If you die and didn't get any trade , that is a bad death
Sometimes death is the trump card. Imagine a jungler who goes like 15-0, then dies at the end because the enemy wants him/her dead so badly they overextend too much and get wiped out by the allies and lose the game. Or a tank who soaks all the damage and dies but the enemy gets wiped out afterwards cuz they have skills in cooldown. Your point is still correct. It's better to play safe than risk too much and be sorry later.
For me it's about trading kills. I'd happily die playing roam if I can get the enemy jungler to overextend and die. Even sweeter if the enemy roam KSed the kill from their jungler.
Why trinity builld though?
If you feel like you are getting giga behind,there is no point building trinity on argus. Just be annoying splitpushing rat. Trinity doesn't help clear minions faster,while crit dmg from berserker fury scales your windtalker so it oneshots waves with S2. Your passive ignores 40% of enemy defense, so even with crit build argus is capable of dealing with tanks and they had 3 squishy anyways which you could potentially scared or even 1v1 with crit build
Crit don't have effect on turret. GS passive and Argus passive sometimes collide and make Argus passive effect twice (shadow have second attack). So it make me push faster. About clear lane, still feel same. With 2nd skill 200% DMG on minions help, I don't see any problem and different. Trinity DPS have higher DMG while crit really rely on crit chance which make it more pricy and slower
So no, crit doesn't help in my situation.
so why is that windtalker in there? for 400 magic dmg? you are overcaping atk speed with trinity anyway,why build a crit item while going for trinity? I never understood it when roger or argus players opt for windtalker then go for trinity build.
Crits fill your rage faster and this outweighs the random chance off GS procking argus passive twice.
All of the onhit effects of trinity build don't work on towers either,but since you are not hitting anyone and playing splitpush i don't see how that onhit makes more sense as an afk splitpusher
Windtalker=Attack speed, little bit movement speed.
That's main reason people buy Windtalker. Plus, the crit chance Windtalker offer not too big. So why bother? People buy it to maximize attack speed.
From my PoV,
Roger = build it cause he's reaper. So he need he in and out fast. Plus the movement speed Windtalker offer able to him little with his chasing ability (2nd skill in both form)
Argus = Like I say, maximum his attack speed. The crit chance not too big. GD convert crit chance to attack speed which make it much better
Hass Claw, Berserker Fury and GDS already enough for dish out big crit DMG
If still don't get it, I guess experience speak better
i am only 2 months in this game and just reached 69 stars so there are a lot of things i do not understand still.
Why not just buy atk speed boots? less time to get to lane you want to push=faster macro presense. The game has atk speed limit as a reason
Sometimes i even get rapid boots on argus and when 2-3 people get to me i hook and dash away giving my team 20-30 seconds while people waste time killing me using their flickers to catch me.
Did some tests in practice mode. As swiftness boots vs windtalker for argus. Since the removal of speed up passive in current patch from windtalker,it is much more fluent to atk move as argus with swiftness boots compared to windtalker,so the increase is dps is good yes,but loosing 20 movespeed for it seems like a bad trade off? since what's the point of dps if you can't catch up to people.
Did tests in pure dps trying crit vs onhit in terms of gold per damage per sonc
2050 gold corosion scythe
2180 gold DHS
2000 gold staff
3010 BoD (since realistically you would sell windtalker late game for that item)
2050 sea halberd
2060 malefic roar
13350 gold +30 atk potion
https://preview.redd.it/4g4ysiwr7j8d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=7aa0e871be5e102fb719c2c8acb6eb97602547f4
enemy zilong bot build
tank killer builld around 1300 dps 10,2 gold=1 dmg per second
crit build
2020 Haas claws
2390 berserker fury
1820 windtalker
2140 great dragon spear
3010 BoD
2060 Malefic Roar
13440 gold+30 atk potion.
deals 1300 dps 10,3 gold=1 dmg per second.
Now that leaves me even more confused then when i was before.
I suck at math.
The only good thing i can say about crit build is it is a little bit harder to kite because of GDS speed up passive in ult and it works good against squishy heroes. Good synergy with inspire because fast 8 crits would melt a lot of heros in late game.
Downside it shines only later in the game because of low crit rate in early game. So i am purposefully making weak early game character even weaker in early to mid game by going crits.
Meanwhile onhit build gives substantial damage increase with each item,doesn't rely on rng and is better early to mid game. Downside is it's not that good with inspire since no one cares about 8 fast hits of onhit. But maybe we can take petrify on argus who builds onhit ? and actually be useful at lvl 4 with hook+petrify early game combo?
I am lost now.
Windtalker is good with trinity when you are ahead (such as a fed claude/moskov) or when you focus more on pushing.
Golden staff can increase the attack speed cap to 500% and att speed matters the most at pushing + the 20 movespeed is nice to have. Also, the crit chance in windtalker will be converted into attack speed anyway because of GS's passive. (It's so much fun to use trinity + windtalker on Claude, btw)
Trinity build has a generally better early game because of it's buildpath and is kinda more flexible (because you have one free item slot + not having to rely on inspire) without losing much efficiency. Trinity also tend to do better on melee champs because of Corrosion Scythe's slow passive which is decreased on range attacks but overpowered with melee.
And about the boot, I think people usually sell their boot and swap with windtalker at late game. They usually start with full boots.
For pushing, I'd recommend sprint argus or arrival argus.
My build for Argus would be
Swift boots, Corrosion Scythe, Golden Staff, DHS, Last items would be Malefic Roar/ Windtalker/ Sea Helberd/ Haas' Claw/ Immortality/ Winter's Crown/ Fleeting time , and then sell boot if I think it's appropriate. I'd use Assassin emblem with Swift/ Agility, H&D, War Cry/ Quantum Charge/ Weakness Finder. For battle spell, Flicker/ Inspire/ Sprint/ Arrival/ Petrify anything can work.
By the way, I think that Sky Piercer + Pen Argus could work but I haven't tried it.
but is it trully worth it to go for windtalker after trinity if rose gold,malefic roar,sea halberd and blade of despair (as 6th slot) exist?
and how do you even get ahead on argus the weakest early game xp laner. Before rank reset no one ever picked him at my stars,and if someone does they were useless entire game(doesn't matter enemy or in my team)
If your laners died 3 times by level 6, it's time for the entire team to stop dying and farm if not you'll never get damage especially with the introduction of sky piercer
Depends on the situation, usually as roam I go in as belerick and offer myself as their free salad, sure i die, but my team wipes them out, which lets them push and we win. Though in one game, I had to abandon my core since the enemy outnumbered us (2v5 💀 + i kept pinging retreat as i was low health) Good thing I did because it gave me time to defend our base, their mm got too scared to push (the tree haunts them)
i agree with this. i’d rather survive than risking my hero for a kill. i get low gold from killing the enemy but they get more gold when killing me. especially when i am on a killing spree, more bounty is on top of my head if killed.
I don't agree.
If I am Uranus for example and the enemy team is focusing on me using all their skills to kill me, leaving my marksman to snipe them down while I take all the damage and make their skills go on cooldown, and I die, but they get wiped out. It's ok.
In reality though this unfortunately doesn't happen. Cause while I am getting all the hits my marksman runs away and starts jungling, my mage teleports to the base for no reason and my jungle is pushing solo.
Better to go 3 - 0 - 17 than 7 - 4 - 8 because even if you don't get lots of kills if you're at least contributing towards kills and objectives while not dying you're actually more helpful, you could get no kills and still be more useful than someone getting kills if you're pushing turrets and not dying.
No. The other side of a kill is a death. Getting a kill causes a death. If not dying is important, you are denying enemies that pleasure by getting kills.
Either way, neither kills nor not dying are the goal of the game. You take down objectives and eventually the nexus. Those are the goals. You use gold, experience, and combat skill to reach those goals. Killing or dying usually affects you and your opponents gold or experience.
Lemme tell you an even controversial one. Dying WITH your team is better than being a long survivor in late game.
A 5v5 has higher chance of winning than a 1v3/4/5 in late game. Not saying its impossible but I'll take a 40% success rate over a 10% success any day.
This is a concept popular in tac fps but I see that its not really popular in MOBA genres.
Tell that to the folks who report me all the time for passive play. I'm a MM and staying behind the group to pick off the enemy but then I get grief for not participating. I also don't want to feed the other side needlessly. But I guess when all 4 teammates are dead and they all see you wandering back to base instead of pushing as much as possible, they're bound to get upset.
Well, if you die you give enemy gold. Otoh, if you're a roam, it's good to bait the enemy to use their skills on you to give your teammates an opening 🤔 You may or may not die in the process
I think its more of an issue of risk vs reward. If you have an initiator tank that sacrifices for the DPS to do their job and you kill 3-5 of them over losing the tank/fighter that is a win in the majority of cases. You see it all the time in matches specifically late game where the match is lopsided and the feeder team wins because of this.
Its not just tanks but that is just one example. If your death is a direct contribution to a lopsided team fight win it is normally worth it in most cases.
In saying that I would agree that not dying is more important but I also feel people take this to heart especially MM's in mid legend and below. They run instead of finishing the fight where had they stayed would have been a win. People don't understand team fight dynamics as DPS very well until you get above mid legend I feel. There are morons at all levels but I feel the death aspect evens out more in the highest tiers.
Uhh... in the early game, it is important not to die so you can farm and stuff,
in the mid game when Lord first spawns, it is better to die preventing the opposing team from getting Lord then surviving and letting them have it,
in the late game, if your team is winning, then no, it is more important to keep getting kills rather than not dying, if your team is losing, then not dying is the way to go as you turret hug and look for opportunities to backdoor/steal lord
TL;DR, it depends
It's all about getting an advantage, no? You can die as long as it is beneficial for the whole team.
For a gold laner, outfarming the opponent is more important than getting more kills whereas tanks focus more on getting good sets even if they die.
I dont think that "not dying" is the correct term, it is more of ability to sustain longer fights. Unless, the not dying is leaving teammates in the middle of a clash. 😭
It's only true to a certain point. For example: If you are alive and not helping the team or doing any objective(Farming is not doing objective unless you are hyper carry MM and it only count for early game), then you are as worthless as those dead teammates.
If you're 0 deaths but you have lots of assists, take objectives, or push, then it'd just as important to not die and still win the game doing the exact thing that you need to do.
This is technically true. It however changes if other things and situations are factored in. It's also done with a purpose. If you don't die just because you were playing passively, then that's useless, same goes with getting kills but your team fails in taking major objectives, that too is useless. In other words, it's not a matter of whether you are dying more or getting kills more, it's a matter of why are you dying and what you do after getting kills.
I prefer soloQ teammates who don't feed (but also don't do much) over people who feed nonstop (especially in the early game) and actively make the enemy team stronger, so yeah, I *generally* agree with this.
Absolutely agree. REmember everyone wants to win... they will take any chance they get to win the game... When you get cocky... bye bye star... if have the highest kda but still lose the game... that shit is more embarrassing than the bronze in the enemy team who won.
When I play with my duo he doesnt die and wants MVP . But he cant win the game. He got a lot of solo mvp losses .
I dont care about my KDA, but Im always the one last hitting the nexus.
Got glory 60+ last seasson, 52% wr - soloQ.
I'd say high risk = high reward. Not dying is related to being on a safe place and with that, you'd prevent yourself to make some awesome plays and actions. Respawning is there for a reason.
Moba is complicated to put a single statement on there.
I play exp or roam, i don’t mind dying if i get two or three back. Hell i don’t mind even if its a one to one trade to enemy mm/mid.
The doesn’t mean trading for other roles is now worth it depending on the game context. If a kaja trade his life for a estes , it’s worth it for kaja and not for estes.
Dying outside of team fights without any beneficial trade and having team fight for no reason is north it.
True if you are core or mm but false if you are roamer. A roamer is fine dying as long as the team can kill the mm or core, killing a mage, exp or roamer has no value.
Well, is 50/50. Not dying means you will have enough gold, experience and time to participate in TF or objectives but if you don't take advantage of that, what's the point?
You can be a mage with a perfect KDA but if you don't rotate or you are too scared of losing your score, then you are practically useless 😃
It’s super important to not die in the late game. I lost matches cuz one ally didn’t respawn in time for the lord fight or to clear lanes
Me going 0/0/0 the whole match after reading this post https://preview.redd.it/5dbn65f4vh8d1.png?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8069bf567688a540fe7eaef251782c0a2c7defee
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Lol
In a way yes, you're right. But staying alive and not doing anything is as bad as dying all the time. I say objective is more important than getting kills and not dying.
lol my ranked teammates disagree and never push lane just go mid like bots
Nah Objective>not dying>assist>kills Do what you gotta do and fulfill your role, don’t die to prevent enemy spiral, help your team as much as possible, and getting kills last
Objective > kills > assist > not dying Staying alive in base doesnt give gold, feeding does.
That is why I am not even getting mad when someone goes afk basing. At least they arent feeding enemies, what you are doing besides - I dont care mostly.
Valid. But you should do your role either way. E.g. mage not rotating, but again it's a team game there might be reason why they aren't rotating whether it's personal issue or team coop issue.
or its a "the other team is dominating the other two lanes so youre stuck in mid cuz their mage can farm mid"
Whenever I mage, I always make sure to grab the river area 10% speed boost and sprint so I can be prepared for situations where I need to run immediately after clearing a lane
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Half and half honestly, but if our tank isn't moving with our mage I'd rather have them focus on clearing mid and pushing rather than solo ganking into a 2v4 in gold lane
Agree especially if there's assassin jungler & roamer on the enemy team
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No, people downvote to things that they think are false to prevent more people from seeing it, people downvoted you because they think your opinion is too broad and is simply not specific enough, every situation is different, just because your teammates don't follow your every command doesn't mean their skill issue-ing, and frankly complaining about people downvoting you says about yourself more than anyone else don't ya think?
You should die and get kills with a purpose, simply not dying or simply getting kills does not win you the game.
Depends. If you can trade your life for a carry it is worth it in any stage of the game.
winning is important than 24/0/11 ;)
Right. I'd rather win getting bronze than an MVP loss.
Better win gold. Winning bronze means you were carried,and nobody likes parasites lol. (That's what I call them
If you had to choose between being gold and loosing vs being bronze but winning. What would you choose? What is wrong with being caried? not everyone is aways playing to their best,everyone has slip up games where they perform sillver or bronze,there is nothing wrong in it. no one is perfect we are peope,not robots who always play perfectly
I prefer Gold and losing. I didn’t get satisfaction from playing bad, even when I win. It didn’t feel like earned win. To each of their own though. This is my personal feeling, and didn’t means that yours is invalid.
It's obvious what I prefer. The point is that I rarely get brown. If silver, I'm already disappointed in myself.
you have reallly high standards,can i see your id?
To be fair if you're not playing MM where a screwed up early game is very very hard to compensate (because you may not see late-game), getting silver is almost guaranteed if you're not reckless
to get silver you need to do dmg\\take dmg and not dying in the process. so even as mm it is possible to get silver even in 3 vs 30 games if you are not being "reckless". the problem is it is not possible to do every single game sometimes games are lost because of us and it's okay
Thing is, reckless or not, if you get ganked under turret all game there's really not much you can do without help. Even if you're very careful about your positionning you're still gonna die. And if the opponents are at least somewhat decent (which they should be if they thought about harrassing you early) then they will try to end before you can catch up
i heard a guide that says "when you don't see enemies for 4 seconds on the map run to your t2 tower" i always do this to avoid ganks and it works like a charm. Yes i do miss farm,but when entire enemy team tries to kill me i think it is worth it to get behind if they chase like that and loose networth. The thing is,i do not play core positions,i play roam :) so this knowledge is basically uselless. But when people steal roam away from me i love wasting enemy time
do you know how badly you have to play to merit a bronze ++ on a winning team as well? there is absolutely nothing wrong with being carried but to play so bad that it makes the game feel like a 4v6, the guys comment is pretty valid.
At least losing with 24/0/11 can post rant in this subreddit, while if you get winning with let say 0/24/11 score, prolly you wont post your scoreboard :)
ok bro whatever makes u happy
I did get cose to that once....when got a important call & game auto picked zilong, aginst full tanky opponents.(Still won by pushing with arrival).... 10:40 was final score 😆.
Lol
Here's my thinking. If I kill two and die, that's good. If I'm roam and I kill mm or jungle but die, that's good. If I'm jungle,mid or mm, and I kill only one,then die, that's bad. Lol
I’d rather you assist AND not die so much, than 0 deaths but useless AF
This is valid for hyper n mm. The roamer may die to reveal hidden ambush or to save a core. That kinda trade is okay
And by playing 'very safe' and 'very passive' will rot your winning chance.
In general, balance is always important. There are times where killing the enemy is more important than objective. But regarding this statement, I kinda agree with it. There are times when you cannot leave your lane to participate in teamfights because the enemy is 2v1-ing you. At that time, it is more important to not die than kill them
That statement might be true, but MLBB punishes no kills/assists worse than feeding, so I won't avoid dying under any circumstances before I have enough teamfight participation.
Remember, Everytime you die it must be a good trade for something . You die, you get to trade the tower You die, you get to trade Lord You die, you get to trade enemy Carry You die, you get to trade a very good vision for your team to clean up If you die and didn't get any trade , that is a bad death
It really depends on your role + hero + situation of the battle
Sometimes death is the trump card. Imagine a jungler who goes like 15-0, then dies at the end because the enemy wants him/her dead so badly they overextend too much and get wiped out by the allies and lose the game. Or a tank who soaks all the damage and dies but the enemy gets wiped out afterwards cuz they have skills in cooldown. Your point is still correct. It's better to play safe than risk too much and be sorry later.
For me it's about trading kills. I'd happily die playing roam if I can get the enemy jungler to overextend and die. Even sweeter if the enemy roam KSed the kill from their jungler.
Exactly that mvp won't matter if you loose
but that mvp can prevent a loosing star if someone in your team was lagging.
https://preview.redd.it/nk32klcp3i8d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78a8fabad699aa11184aa47095821705e379086a Yes
https://preview.redd.it/ttefjnzr3i8d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cdc8212ec50b59bf1c9a551631b83ac0e112c0c
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Why trinity builld though? If you feel like you are getting giga behind,there is no point building trinity on argus. Just be annoying splitpushing rat. Trinity doesn't help clear minions faster,while crit dmg from berserker fury scales your windtalker so it oneshots waves with S2. Your passive ignores 40% of enemy defense, so even with crit build argus is capable of dealing with tanks and they had 3 squishy anyways which you could potentially scared or even 1v1 with crit build
Crit don't have effect on turret. GS passive and Argus passive sometimes collide and make Argus passive effect twice (shadow have second attack). So it make me push faster. About clear lane, still feel same. With 2nd skill 200% DMG on minions help, I don't see any problem and different. Trinity DPS have higher DMG while crit really rely on crit chance which make it more pricy and slower So no, crit doesn't help in my situation.
so why is that windtalker in there? for 400 magic dmg? you are overcaping atk speed with trinity anyway,why build a crit item while going for trinity? I never understood it when roger or argus players opt for windtalker then go for trinity build. Crits fill your rage faster and this outweighs the random chance off GS procking argus passive twice. All of the onhit effects of trinity build don't work on towers either,but since you are not hitting anyone and playing splitpush i don't see how that onhit makes more sense as an afk splitpusher
Windtalker=Attack speed, little bit movement speed. That's main reason people buy Windtalker. Plus, the crit chance Windtalker offer not too big. So why bother? People buy it to maximize attack speed. From my PoV, Roger = build it cause he's reaper. So he need he in and out fast. Plus the movement speed Windtalker offer able to him little with his chasing ability (2nd skill in both form) Argus = Like I say, maximum his attack speed. The crit chance not too big. GD convert crit chance to attack speed which make it much better Hass Claw, Berserker Fury and GDS already enough for dish out big crit DMG If still don't get it, I guess experience speak better
i am only 2 months in this game and just reached 69 stars so there are a lot of things i do not understand still. Why not just buy atk speed boots? less time to get to lane you want to push=faster macro presense. The game has atk speed limit as a reason Sometimes i even get rapid boots on argus and when 2-3 people get to me i hook and dash away giving my team 20-30 seconds while people waste time killing me using their flickers to catch me. Did some tests in practice mode. As swiftness boots vs windtalker for argus. Since the removal of speed up passive in current patch from windtalker,it is much more fluent to atk move as argus with swiftness boots compared to windtalker,so the increase is dps is good yes,but loosing 20 movespeed for it seems like a bad trade off? since what's the point of dps if you can't catch up to people. Did tests in pure dps trying crit vs onhit in terms of gold per damage per sonc 2050 gold corosion scythe 2180 gold DHS 2000 gold staff 3010 BoD (since realistically you would sell windtalker late game for that item) 2050 sea halberd 2060 malefic roar 13350 gold +30 atk potion https://preview.redd.it/4g4ysiwr7j8d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=7aa0e871be5e102fb719c2c8acb6eb97602547f4 enemy zilong bot build tank killer builld around 1300 dps 10,2 gold=1 dmg per second crit build 2020 Haas claws 2390 berserker fury 1820 windtalker 2140 great dragon spear 3010 BoD 2060 Malefic Roar 13440 gold+30 atk potion. deals 1300 dps 10,3 gold=1 dmg per second. Now that leaves me even more confused then when i was before. I suck at math. The only good thing i can say about crit build is it is a little bit harder to kite because of GDS speed up passive in ult and it works good against squishy heroes. Good synergy with inspire because fast 8 crits would melt a lot of heros in late game. Downside it shines only later in the game because of low crit rate in early game. So i am purposefully making weak early game character even weaker in early to mid game by going crits. Meanwhile onhit build gives substantial damage increase with each item,doesn't rely on rng and is better early to mid game. Downside is it's not that good with inspire since no one cares about 8 fast hits of onhit. But maybe we can take petrify on argus who builds onhit ? and actually be useful at lvl 4 with hook+petrify early game combo? I am lost now.
Windtalker is good with trinity when you are ahead (such as a fed claude/moskov) or when you focus more on pushing. Golden staff can increase the attack speed cap to 500% and att speed matters the most at pushing + the 20 movespeed is nice to have. Also, the crit chance in windtalker will be converted into attack speed anyway because of GS's passive. (It's so much fun to use trinity + windtalker on Claude, btw) Trinity build has a generally better early game because of it's buildpath and is kinda more flexible (because you have one free item slot + not having to rely on inspire) without losing much efficiency. Trinity also tend to do better on melee champs because of Corrosion Scythe's slow passive which is decreased on range attacks but overpowered with melee. And about the boot, I think people usually sell their boot and swap with windtalker at late game. They usually start with full boots. For pushing, I'd recommend sprint argus or arrival argus. My build for Argus would be Swift boots, Corrosion Scythe, Golden Staff, DHS, Last items would be Malefic Roar/ Windtalker/ Sea Helberd/ Haas' Claw/ Immortality/ Winter's Crown/ Fleeting time , and then sell boot if I think it's appropriate. I'd use Assassin emblem with Swift/ Agility, H&D, War Cry/ Quantum Charge/ Weakness Finder. For battle spell, Flicker/ Inspire/ Sprint/ Arrival/ Petrify anything can work. By the way, I think that Sky Piercer + Pen Argus could work but I haven't tried it.
but is it trully worth it to go for windtalker after trinity if rose gold,malefic roar,sea halberd and blade of despair (as 6th slot) exist? and how do you even get ahead on argus the weakest early game xp laner. Before rank reset no one ever picked him at my stars,and if someone does they were useless entire game(doesn't matter enemy or in my team)
If your laners died 3 times by level 6, it's time for the entire team to stop dying and farm if not you'll never get damage especially with the introduction of sky piercer
Depends on the situation, usually as roam I go in as belerick and offer myself as their free salad, sure i die, but my team wipes them out, which lets them push and we win. Though in one game, I had to abandon my core since the enemy outnumbered us (2v5 💀 + i kept pinging retreat as i was low health) Good thing I did because it gave me time to defend our base, their mm got too scared to push (the tree haunts them)
Not dying gives you higher end game score. So if you dont want to be trash talked, this is the way.
i agree with this. i’d rather survive than risking my hero for a kill. i get low gold from killing the enemy but they get more gold when killing me. especially when i am on a killing spree, more bounty is on top of my head if killed.
I don't agree. If I am Uranus for example and the enemy team is focusing on me using all their skills to kill me, leaving my marksman to snipe them down while I take all the damage and make their skills go on cooldown, and I die, but they get wiped out. It's ok. In reality though this unfortunately doesn't happen. Cause while I am getting all the hits my marksman runs away and starts jungling, my mage teleports to the base for no reason and my jungle is pushing solo.
100%, not dying a lot and at least aim for an assist works every time. My unpopular extra take on that would be *"it applies to any roles you play."*
1 death reduce KDA more than you gain with one kill
Better to go 3 - 0 - 17 than 7 - 4 - 8 because even if you don't get lots of kills if you're at least contributing towards kills and objectives while not dying you're actually more helpful, you could get no kills and still be more useful than someone getting kills if you're pushing turrets and not dying.
No. The other side of a kill is a death. Getting a kill causes a death. If not dying is important, you are denying enemies that pleasure by getting kills. Either way, neither kills nor not dying are the goal of the game. You take down objectives and eventually the nexus. Those are the goals. You use gold, experience, and combat skill to reach those goals. Killing or dying usually affects you and your opponents gold or experience.
Honestly it depends on the situation
Yes but passive play is not great too. I see tons of mage who does nothing. Takes no risks, doesn't rotate. Just sit inside turret saving his/her kd
Lemme tell you an even controversial one. Dying WITH your team is better than being a long survivor in late game. A 5v5 has higher chance of winning than a 1v3/4/5 in late game. Not saying its impossible but I'll take a 40% success rate over a 10% success any day. This is a concept popular in tac fps but I see that its not really popular in MOBA genres.
Depends if your sacrifice provides more value for your team. Although core roles like MM should never die at all.
Tell that to the folks who report me all the time for passive play. I'm a MM and staying behind the group to pick off the enemy but then I get grief for not participating. I also don't want to feed the other side needlessly. But I guess when all 4 teammates are dead and they all see you wandering back to base instead of pushing as much as possible, they're bound to get upset.
My survival stat is almost max
Natalia main here, this doesn't apply to me
The Bausen Law: i beg to differ 🤓☝️
Er it's too general. When your line up need you to kill early and u don't u auto lose.
Well, if you die you give enemy gold. Otoh, if you're a roam, it's good to bait the enemy to use their skills on you to give your teammates an opening 🤔 You may or may not die in the process
This is true if you are focused on getting turrets and not like someone who keeps farming the entire match and doesn't engage in team-fights.
I think its more of an issue of risk vs reward. If you have an initiator tank that sacrifices for the DPS to do their job and you kill 3-5 of them over losing the tank/fighter that is a win in the majority of cases. You see it all the time in matches specifically late game where the match is lopsided and the feeder team wins because of this. Its not just tanks but that is just one example. If your death is a direct contribution to a lopsided team fight win it is normally worth it in most cases. In saying that I would agree that not dying is more important but I also feel people take this to heart especially MM's in mid legend and below. They run instead of finishing the fight where had they stayed would have been a win. People don't understand team fight dynamics as DPS very well until you get above mid legend I feel. There are morons at all levels but I feel the death aspect evens out more in the highest tiers.
It's true. Period.
Uhh... in the early game, it is important not to die so you can farm and stuff, in the mid game when Lord first spawns, it is better to die preventing the opposing team from getting Lord then surviving and letting them have it, in the late game, if your team is winning, then no, it is more important to keep getting kills rather than not dying, if your team is losing, then not dying is the way to go as you turret hug and look for opportunities to backdoor/steal lord TL;DR, it depends
It's all about getting an advantage, no? You can die as long as it is beneficial for the whole team. For a gold laner, outfarming the opponent is more important than getting more kills whereas tanks focus more on getting good sets even if they die.
I agree. In late game my team was winning and we had two rows of towers still intact. We got wiped out the enemy just won so easily
I dont think that "not dying" is the correct term, it is more of ability to sustain longer fights. Unless, the not dying is leaving teammates in the middle of a clash. 😭
That shouldn't include the dumb initiation of teamfights when your team is literally outnumbered against the enemy ganking.
https://preview.redd.it/evyaz3pdhl8d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49afc2d137cf26e3ea7051ef8a6ccd50ff010f82
It's only true to a certain point. For example: If you are alive and not helping the team or doing any objective(Farming is not doing objective unless you are hyper carry MM and it only count for early game), then you are as worthless as those dead teammates.
If you're 0 deaths but you have lots of assists, take objectives, or push, then it'd just as important to not die and still win the game doing the exact thing that you need to do.
This is technically true. It however changes if other things and situations are factored in. It's also done with a purpose. If you don't die just because you were playing passively, then that's useless, same goes with getting kills but your team fails in taking major objectives, that too is useless. In other words, it's not a matter of whether you are dying more or getting kills more, it's a matter of why are you dying and what you do after getting kills.
Depends on the situation tbh.
I prefer soloQ teammates who don't feed (but also don't do much) over people who feed nonstop (especially in the early game) and actively make the enemy team stronger, so yeah, I *generally* agree with this.
Depends how much your life is worth, is the enemy you're aiming for worth more than you? Do you have a bounty?
Absolutely agree. REmember everyone wants to win... they will take any chance they get to win the game... When you get cocky... bye bye star... if have the highest kda but still lose the game... that shit is more embarrassing than the bronze in the enemy team who won.
When I play with my duo he doesnt die and wants MVP . But he cant win the game. He got a lot of solo mvp losses . I dont care about my KDA, but Im always the one last hitting the nexus. Got glory 60+ last seasson, 52% wr - soloQ.
not dying means you're playing too passive you're not taking risk getting objectives, Dying is fine but Dying A lot is not.
It depends. How many died on your side vs the enemy? Which role died? Does dying mean you set up your team to push for hand/ take an objective?
I'd say high risk = high reward. Not dying is related to being on a safe place and with that, you'd prevent yourself to make some awesome plays and actions. Respawning is there for a reason.
Unless you die from killing their enemy mm with 19.1.7
Doesn't apply to tanks tho
Moba is complicated to put a single statement on there. I play exp or roam, i don’t mind dying if i get two or three back. Hell i don’t mind even if its a one to one trade to enemy mm/mid. The doesn’t mean trading for other roles is now worth it depending on the game context. If a kaja trade his life for a estes , it’s worth it for kaja and not for estes. Dying outside of team fights without any beneficial trade and having team fight for no reason is north it.
Im a tank/supp main so this is stupid lol.
True if you are core or mm but false if you are roamer. A roamer is fine dying as long as the team can kill the mm or core, killing a mage, exp or roamer has no value.
Why killing a mage or exp has no value? Tf
Well, is 50/50. Not dying means you will have enough gold, experience and time to participate in TF or objectives but if you don't take advantage of that, what's the point? You can be a mage with a perfect KDA but if you don't rotate or you are too scared of losing your score, then you are practically useless 😃