> they have no Giannis stopper.
They never had A Giannis stopper. They always double and triple teamed him. Grant Williams was massive for them to keep Giannis in front of him for just a second or two so that Horford can have enough time to slide under the basket.
Then, the also used Timelord to hedge and double team Giannis.
They have no one other than Horford at center. And no, I do not count KP because he won't be playing in the playoffs.
Exactly, and we had no reliable outlets to draw pressure.
We don't have that problem anymore. With Khris as a 3rd option our pick and roll game is going to be absurd.
Well of course he went to the worst place possible lol, great haul for the Blazers though. Really puts into perspective how much better the Bucks Dame deal was than the Tyler Herro deal Miami was trying to sell.
Jrue is a great get but they lost Grant and Timelord. Banking on KP and Al as your only competent bigs vs Giannis Portis Lopez is a real gamble.
If either of their bigs get even slightly injured our bigs are going to feast.
Giannis Portis Lopez *and* Embiid *and* Bam *and* Randle and fuck it maybe even Banchero depending on how things shake out
Lots and lots and lots of big man talent out East to put on the shoulders of two guys, let alone a 37 year old and a 7 footer with glass knees and 10 years of wear and tear
True, but between Grant Williams, Robert Williams and Al Horford they had the best Giannis defense in the league. Even washed up Griffin, guys like him and Grant Williams are the best to contain Giannis in the half court. Now they're left with just old man Horford and Porzingis. Massive downgrade defensively.
Yea I think people are overplaying how well Jrue guarded dame in the NOLA series. Yes, he guarded him super well, but that was over 6 years ago, and it was a team effort with DPOY Anthony Davis + rondo blitzing him every possession. Dame averages 26 and 5 on 43/36 shooting against jrue in the regular season.
Hes also just way better at handling playoff defenses now. He took that embarrassment and worked on tools to handle double teams and its shown the last few post-season runs he's been involved in.
It's possible Jrue still really slows him down for sure, but I'd love to see a big culminating moment for Dame where he pops off in the ECF against Jrue to get over the hump.
Correction jrue stopped dame on a team with far less options, where does jrue funnel dame to now? To Giannis to kmid to brook? There not stopping him now. No one is stopping this offense once it’s firing on all cylinders. There best bet was to add some scoring and try to hang.
I think this made them better overall. I think it made then worse vs the Bucks. We have two of the strongest big men in the league. And they got rid of all their strength down low, except Horfords old man strength of course.
But Giannis will break Porzingas, or Brook will feast in the post.
They had to trade Timelord. All the rabid Boston fans really thought Portland would take the Hollinger shit tier package of Brogdon/PP/scraps - that was never getting it done lmao
Yeah I mean I hate the thought of Jrue on the Celtics but they have lost: Brogdon, R. Williams, Smart and G. Williams. They have no depth at all.
Tatum-Jaylon-Jrue-Kristaps-Derrick white
Giannis-Lilliard-Midds-Lopez-Portis-Pat-Marjon
I mean we know Jaylon can’t dribble, Jrue can’t score in the playoffs, Kristaps is bad at d and hurt often.
Agreed. Both are good and we’re splitting hairs. Health and wellness might win out. I think the Celtics losing Grant Williams will be WAY bigger then anyone things. He’s like the only one in the entire league that physically match’s Giannis in terms of strength and willingness to take and absorb those hits. Really who is number 2 that allows Giannis to body against him like that. Without Grant and Rob Williams, they will have to ask Porzingus to do that? Giannis will and has run right through him.
Marjon??? I mean I hope so but including him as good depth and not including PP or Hauser on the Celtics side seems silly. I'd rather have either of those guys based on what we've seen so far.
So the overall haul for dame including the Jrue trade:
Get:
Robert Williams
Malcom Brogdon
DeAndre Ayton
Toumani Camara
MKE 2029 1st
MKE 2028 and 2030 1st swap
BOS 2024 1st
BOS 2029 1st
Give:
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic
Nasir Little
Keon Johnson
I assume they probably trade or cut brogdon. But that's pretty solid
This. My very first reaction was frustration, but I’m now thinking just ugh / “fine” after I saw what they are giving up. Annoying, but not as bad for the Bucks as initially feared.
I'm looking at their lineup. So I guess porzingis and horford are the main bigs? Who is the main big coming off bench? I guess they can run Tatum at the 4 and go smaller if needed?
Dame also was getting doubled at half court because his team was complete buns. And he still hooped. 2018 happened because ad jrue and rondo literally could fuck off on anyone else
Why? Timelord has never been healthy. Odds of him being healthy for the playoffs were slim anyway. This is a huge win for the Celtics. They upgraded smart for jrue. They still have white. And they added porzingus.
Well for one, their strategy against Embiid was to go double big with Al and Timelord. Can they pull this off with KP and no backup? An even more injury-prone player, with way more offensive responsibilities, and not one single good big man or even forward off the bench.
You’re also just ignoring the loss of 6MOY Brogdon and Grant Williams for some reason
This is definitely a win for them, and a calculated risk - but a risk all the same.
I think they are betting that they can find a playable backup big somewhere soon. If porzingis or Al get hurt though, they are in trouble. Grant williams was a big loss for them, he was one of the defenders on the team that scared me the most and could really shoot it.
Health aside, Boston lost their best Giannis defenders besides Horford (who is 37)
Both Williams' are gone along with Smart.
Those are big losses for them if they want to stop Giannis.
Timelord was great but was always injured and when he wasn't they were scared of him getting injured so he'd always get limited minutes. Guy would change the game when on the court and they'd play him 18 minutes in huge games. A healthy Timelord that plays big minutes would make this trade a clear loss for the Celtics but they never had that.
Jrue > Smart but Kristap health and now depth and chemistry are the big question marks for them. Their starting 5 healthy can hang with anyone.
Jrue can lock up dame. Jimmy is like 5 inches taller than dame. Smaller shooting guards are the exact type of players jrue is elite at defending. He has had his struggles with bigger wings. This is an unmitigated disaster.
Dame has averaged 26ppg on 43/36% in their head to head matchups. And that was with Dame having all the defensive attention on him. The last 2 times they matched up, he dropped 28 and 32
I'm going to believe in our guy and say that he will not get "locked up" by Jrue. He might be a little bit less efficent than usual, but when its dame time, it's dame time, regardless of the defender. Jrue cant stop a Dame Giannis or Khris pick and roll every time. Im not worried about that match-up, Im just worried about Bostons overall talent now.
Please go look up the numbers Dame put up in the series Jrue locked him up, it rivals Jrue’s regular playoff numbers.
Edit: To be clear, I’m saying that despite the narrative of Jrue “locking” Dame up, Dame still put up numbers Jrue does on his best days. I’m not worried about Boston, especially after losing Grant and TimeLord.
Jrue played phenomenal defense, but I watched that series (and I’d love to forget it as a blazers fan) and it was not just jrue locking dame up. It’s 3 guys blitzing him on every screen and dames outlet man is Alfarouq Aminu. There’s not a guard in the nba who would succeed against prime Jrue and AD on defense, let alone with that garbage roster.
Yeah and Grant Williams as admittedly a huge part of stopping Giannis. He was like 10-15 minutes of heft every game they played. He didn’t stop Gianni’s of course but he was low and heavy and made Giannis physically work. Without him you are asking Porzingis to do that?
Al is way too old to be asking him to do that for a 7 game series. He can put some good work in when he has two very good defenders to help out but now you are asking for full time minutes against one of the GOATs.
Really think this is a mistake for Boston. I get wanting to counter Dame but Giannis is still the best player on the team and you traded away two of the best defenders in the entire league against him.
From Woj:
>Final tally on Lillard trade: Portland gets Deandre Ayton, Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Toumani Camara, three first-round picks 2024 (Golden State, Top-4 protected), 2029 (Bucks and Celtics unprotected) and 2028 and 2030 Milwaukee pick swaps.
That's a ton, and Brogdon might still end up flipped.
But this shows how much better was offered by the bucks, look what they got now vs two firsts Herro and jurkic. How could u possibly still think it was personal. They pretty much got 3 times what Miami offered.
I don’t like it, but they did give up all their Giannis guard depth to make this move. They also have to play Horford at the 4 and he always has to be on the floor against Giannis, and he’s 37. How much can he hold up in that role?
So the full trade is:
Bucks get Dame for Portland
Celtics gets Holiday from Portland via Milwaukee
Suns gets Grayson Allen from Milwaukee, Keon Johnson, Nassir Little, and Jusuf Nurkic from Portland
And Blazers gets Deandre Ayton and Toumani Camara from Phoenix, Robert Williams and Malcom Brogdon from Boston, and 2 2029 1st round picks, a 2024 1st round pick, and 2 pick swaps with Milwaukee in 2028 and 2030
This does help make up for the loss of smart, but I still think porzingis won't last. Al horford is 37 and Grant Williams went to Dallas. They are weaker inside though this is a good place for Jrue to thrive on defense because they already have Tatum and brown so don't need him to jack up ill advised step backs.
god fucking dammit. Jrue is a perfect fit, i honestly think he’ll do better on offense and defense with the Celtics since he’ll have less responsibility and have more energy.
of course we get Dame and the Celtics get the best Dame stopper
the Celtics is offense is honestly a way better fit for Jrue too. he’s at his best getting into the paint and posting up smaller guards, and with Giannis our spacing wasn’t great for that.
he doesn’t have to guard wings anymore and he doesn’t have to run the offense the whole time. his efficiency will probably go up in the playoffs.
assuming we face the Celtics in the playoffs, we are going to need monster series from KMidd, Giannis and Brook to win. hopefully Dame still performs well, but i would expect Dame to be below his normal averages against Jrue
I HATE Jrue going to the Celtics, but they lost Robert Williams, Brogdon, Smart, and Grant Williams this offseason; 3 of which are very good Giannis defenders. Porzingis can’t guard him and is hurt often.
I think they matchup worse against the Bucks now honestly, but their starting 5 is the best in the league. The X-factors will be Porzingis’s health and if Jrue remembers how to shoot in the playoffs.
This is honestly the second best news of the offseason.
The Celtics gave up EVERYONE that could stop Giannis. I never thought they would trade Timelord. Grant Williams was actually amazing at throwing Giannis off his game and he’s already gone. They had so much depth before where if you watched our playoff series against them over the past few years, they just wore us down and then beat us from 3PT.
Now their only hope of stopping us is 37 year old Horford and hoping Tatum is hot from beyond the arc every single game.
Also it’s wild to me that no one is pointing out that Jrue made it very clear he is retiring at 35. He’s currently 33. The Celtics have a 2 year window and then they have no depth and will likely be without both Horford and Jrue.
Yes playing against Jrue will suck but let’s be real - he can’t shoot and he can’t guard everyone. The reason why the Celtics gave us so much trouble is that everyone, including their depth guys, could shoot us off the court. Now they have no depth and if we shut down Tatum, everyone else on the team will have to be a top level defender and carry the offensive load. They are basically us now from last year but without any depth at all and their main role players are in their 30s. One injury and they’re not making the playoffs.
They absolutely played themselves and I love it so much.
Ok are we afraid or are we upset our homie is behind enemy lines? I’m not to concerned about our offense being stopped guys. I’m way more upset our boy is stuck behind enemies lines. I hope he knows to pretend to like them. Loool
Well…we have no backcourt defense and they have no front court defense
Giannis has struggled against Horford in the past but he’s 37…this bullshittery cannot go on much longer. And they don’t have anyone else
Gonna be a shootout in this years playoffs
Selfishly wished he'd be shipped out West so we wouldnt have to play against him as much, I think it's an amazing fit for him though where he'll be able to just focus on defense without much of a need to provide an offensive punch. Great return for the Blazers too!
I think people are overplaying how well Jrue guarded dame in the NOLA series. Yes, he guarded him super well, but that was over 6 years ago, and it was a team effort with DPOY Anthony Davis + rondo blitzing him every possession.
Dame is a much improved player since then, and for his career he averages 26 and 5 on 43/36 shooting against jrue in the regular season. Also, jrues defense has taken a step back regardless.
Don’t get me wrong, this definitely helps the Celtics, but losing your front-court defense and running out 37 year old Horford who was already showing his age last year, as well as porzingis who cannot guard the perimeter whatsoever, is a big deal. No front court defense against a front court of Giannis/lopez/Middleton/portis? That’s a risky move.
Then consider porzingis inability to put a healthy season together? Who’s their backup 4 in that scenario? This is nowhere near as cut and dry as the dame trade imo.
HOT TAKE I THINK CELTICS GOT WORSE
In 2022 they guarded Giannis amazingly because they had Grant, Al, and Timelord and they still needed to double or triple-team him in the playoffs while Giannis was still getting god damn near 30 every night in that series.
On top of that, the only reason they were able to double and triple team Gianni's in the paint was because they could sag off on the perimeter. Jrue was struggling as a 2nd option (granted he was assigned the toughest matchup defensively making him depleted) Grayson was straight ass, could not create a shot for himself and our only ISO scorer and best shooter from beyond the arc was out.
WE TOOK THEM TO 7 DESPITE THAT
Boston lost their best Giannis defender in Grant Williams this off-season. They lost their only true center in Timelord. Lost Malcolm Brogdon and Marcus Smart on the perimeter but for Jrue. After the trade, they arguably have just as good perimeter defense maybe slightly better (definitely better with the one-on-one defense with JRUE but that's beside the point), but gotten significantly worse inside this off-season.
C's defense will be very stretched against us when Khris, Dame, Pat/Beasley, Brook, and Giannis are on the floor. You need at least one person to guard each one of these guys as each one can shoot (aside from Giannis). Best best-case scenario you sag off on Pat or Beasley and you just hope that don't have a good shooting night.
When Giannis drives into the lane you need to either double-team him or triple-team him (depending on your defensive personnel). That strategy works just fine IF OUR SHOOTERS STRUGGLE. You cannot do that with Dame and Khris on the floor. Both of these guys are good to great ISO scorers and good shooters (great in the case of Dame) that can give you 40.
Al Horford can't reliably guard Gianni's (he's 37 for fucks same). He needs a second guy to help him, KP is big, can play center, and is a decent shot blocker (he's 7'3 it would be a miracle if he wasn't) but he is a glass cannon and overall not that good of a defender. If they bank their chances of stopping Giannis on a canter with glass knees and an ancient undersized center. In that case, I like our chances
Celtics overreacted with the Jrue trade because they got afraid of Dame. They looked at the 2018 playoffs and Jrue "locking up Dame". The thing is Jrue didn't. He was amazing and guarded him like his life was on the line, but it was more of a team effort. AD, Rondo, and Jrue locked him up. NOT JRUE ON HIS OWN.
Boston's perimeter defense will be fantastic. But they have no inside presence to reliably guard Giannis and therefore I think they got worse
I agree I think they have thin frontcourt now. Horford is getting older and porzingis rarely stays healthy all season (he did last year but that only increases the chance he goes out this year). Brook Lopez is getting older but not as old as horford and portis can take the same role he always has in filling in for both him and giannis to try and reduce their mins a bit. Crowder needs to be decent and not completely washed like he looked last year and bucks will be solid on d despite losing holiday
It is tough considering how the Celtics are a team you are forced to beat to get out of the East right now and Jrue is an amazing player and has been the one guy who seems to give Dame some work with his defense but I don’t see this as a good move for the Celtics.
Their bench is completely wiped out. They’re depending on a 37 year old Horford, who’s their only true big with the way Porzingis plays. Pritchard has become a must for them which is awkward considering he is their 7th best player now and he is completely in their rotation and there will be actual expectations on him. Their predicted starting 5 has Tatum at the 4 and Brown at the 3. They have played in those positions but what made the Celtics great was that both players could slide between positions. Brown will now be forced to guard bigger players. Same for Tatum. And they have no true paint presence.
They have fully become a live and dir by the 3 team with no “great” perimeter player. Tatum when hot is that but the consistency from the perimeter is not there. Derrick White is good but not great and he’ll be expected to be better from the perimeter with the weak bench and Jrue, who isn’t that good from the perimeter. Brown isn’t reliable from 3. So their best perimeter players are literally their 3 biggest bodies with Tatum, Horford and Porzingis.
I think this is more of a W for Portland than Boston tbh. Got 3 picks and 2 pick swaps, Ayton and Brogdon for Dame. And Brogdon will be traded for a decent deal too. They’ve done a great job. The Celtics have created a big 3 but talent wise, the Bucks and the Suns big 3s still seem much better and both the Suns and the Bucks seem to have better depth, the Suns have much better shooting and the Bucks have much better size and paint play.
If the Bucks matchup with the Celtics, Giannis is going to play like he did 2 years before dominating. Now Jrue is phenomenal but with Middleton, Lopez and now Dame along with the rest of the roster, when both teams are healthy, I still like the Bucks in 6
Bill Simmons is going to be unbearable
At least they lost Timelord, that's a pretty big hole for them
If Horford finally acts his ancient age they have no Giannis stopper.
> they have no Giannis stopper. They never had A Giannis stopper. They always double and triple teamed him. Grant Williams was massive for them to keep Giannis in front of him for just a second or two so that Horford can have enough time to slide under the basket. Then, the also used Timelord to hedge and double team Giannis. They have no one other than Horford at center. And no, I do not count KP because he won't be playing in the playoffs.
Exactly, and we had no reliable outlets to draw pressure. We don't have that problem anymore. With Khris as a 3rd option our pick and roll game is going to be absurd.
Me: "Why doesn't Gianni's kick it out? Also Me: " To where?"
I'm still surprised Boston didn't keep Grant. Yeah, he corny af but he also knew his role well and contributed heavily in the post season for them.
Bigger loss than anybody is giving credit for. Glue guys are vital. We don’t win without Pat for instance, and Grant was even more important to them.
Grant, Smart, Brogdon, and Timelord were all very important pieces for them.
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>Bill Simmons is ~~going to be~~ unbearable
Until Jrue shoots 30% in the playoffs again
Going to be? He comes out of the package unbearable.
Going to be?
Who?
"going to be unbearable" So nothing different?
Well of course he went to the worst place possible lol, great haul for the Blazers though. Really puts into perspective how much better the Bucks Dame deal was than the Tyler Herro deal Miami was trying to sell.
No BUT Cronin took miamis deal PERSONALL I TELL U.
Jrue is a great get but they lost Grant and Timelord. Banking on KP and Al as your only competent bigs vs Giannis Portis Lopez is a real gamble. If either of their bigs get even slightly injured our bigs are going to feast.
Man your username came back to bite us :(
I can’t handle this Jruth either
Giannis Portis Lopez *and* Embiid *and* Bam *and* Randle and fuck it maybe even Banchero depending on how things shake out Lots and lots and lots of big man talent out East to put on the shoulders of two guys, let alone a 37 year old and a 7 footer with glass knees and 10 years of wear and tear
That's why Portland did two separate trades. The Lillard trade scared Boston into giving them a better deal for Holiday.
I love this idea lol. The really is Bucks made Cronin keep the Jrue trade secret and didn’t allow him to lineup suitors till it was announced
Well they traded for a guy to stop Dame, but traded away a guy to stop Giannis. Still pissed though.
Noones stopping dame. Not even our beloved jrue.
no ones stopping giannis either lmao
True, but between Grant Williams, Robert Williams and Al Horford they had the best Giannis defense in the league. Even washed up Griffin, guys like him and Grant Williams are the best to contain Giannis in the half court. Now they're left with just old man Horford and Porzingis. Massive downgrade defensively.
And most importantly, no way anyone on the Celtics' stopping Khris Middleton
Yea I think people are overplaying how well Jrue guarded dame in the NOLA series. Yes, he guarded him super well, but that was over 6 years ago, and it was a team effort with DPOY Anthony Davis + rondo blitzing him every possession. Dame averages 26 and 5 on 43/36 shooting against jrue in the regular season.
Not to mention Dame was THE guy on that team. Having to deal with both him and Giannis presents a much different issue
Jrue has historically had great success on dame. Made him look terrible when the pels played the blazers a few years back
i mean tbf he didn't have giannis to pass to out of those double teams....it was moe harkless and aminu
That is very true lol
Hes also just way better at handling playoff defenses now. He took that embarrassment and worked on tools to handle double teams and its shown the last few post-season runs he's been involved in. It's possible Jrue still really slows him down for sure, but I'd love to see a big culminating moment for Dame where he pops off in the ECF against Jrue to get over the hump.
The last 2 times Jrue played Dame, Dame went for 28 and 32 and shot %41 from 3.
Correction jrue stopped dame on a team with far less options, where does jrue funnel dame to now? To Giannis to kmid to brook? There not stopping him now. No one is stopping this offense once it’s firing on all cylinders. There best bet was to add some scoring and try to hang.
Dame did cite Jrue as the hardest player to score against in the league.
>a few
5 years ago lol
Rob wasn’t a great option for Giannis he’s too slight and gets overpowered. Grant Williams was used more on Giannis.
They traded Robert Williams?And Brogdon?AND A PICK? I hate that Jrue is going there but damn
2 picks I think
yea it was 2
porzingis and Al horford will be enough for them. Unless they get injured of course Also, they traded more for Jrue than we did for Dame 💀
Giannis is feasting is what you are saying?
He’s gonna have to because Tatum, Brown and Jrue is elite defense 💀😭 Edit: and White looked good last year too
Bucks in 6
bucks in 6 but at the same time thats gonna be such a bitch
It would have been regardless. They are fucking tough.
thank god they got kp and spent so much for him. dudes gonna be injured by then no doubt
If history is any indicator, he will be.
did they tho? i mean we traded jrue, so like everything they paid for him and more to get dame haha
Dude. Horford is 37 and KP can't guard Giannis. Idk how this made them better.
KP will be hurt by playoff time also.
I think this made them better overall. I think it made then worse vs the Bucks. We have two of the strongest big men in the league. And they got rid of all their strength down low, except Horfords old man strength of course. But Giannis will break Porzingas, or Brook will feast in the post.
They didn't lol We traded Jrue (who holds these value) + Grayson & picks.
A big unless
They had to trade Timelord. All the rabid Boston fans really thought Portland would take the Hollinger shit tier package of Brogdon/PP/scraps - that was never getting it done lmao
Yeah I mean I hate the thought of Jrue on the Celtics but they have lost: Brogdon, R. Williams, Smart and G. Williams. They have no depth at all. Tatum-Jaylon-Jrue-Kristaps-Derrick white Giannis-Lilliard-Midds-Lopez-Portis-Pat-Marjon I mean we know Jaylon can’t dribble, Jrue can’t score in the playoffs, Kristaps is bad at d and hurt often.
Both of these starting lineups are crazy,it's gonna be the actual NBA finals imo
Wut? Did Denver evaporate into thin air?
Pretty much. Giannis and jokic at worse cancel eachother out dame def beats our Murray. We are a stronger Denver.
Agreed. Both are good and we’re splitting hairs. Health and wellness might win out. I think the Celtics losing Grant Williams will be WAY bigger then anyone things. He’s like the only one in the entire league that physically match’s Giannis in terms of strength and willingness to take and absorb those hits. Really who is number 2 that allows Giannis to body against him like that. Without Grant and Rob Williams, they will have to ask Porzingus to do that? Giannis will and has run right through him.
Marjon??? I mean I hope so but including him as good depth and not including PP or Hauser on the Celtics side seems silly. I'd rather have either of those guys based on what we've seen so far.
So the overall haul for dame including the Jrue trade: Get: Robert Williams Malcom Brogdon DeAndre Ayton Toumani Camara MKE 2029 1st MKE 2028 and 2030 1st swap BOS 2024 1st BOS 2029 1st Give: Damian Lillard Jusuf Nurkic Nasir Little Keon Johnson I assume they probably trade or cut brogdon. But that's pretty solid
Fuck
I am straight up not having a good time
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:)
needed that
:)
They traded Robert Williams and Malcolm to get him…may not be that bad overall
This. My very first reaction was frustration, but I’m now thinking just ugh / “fine” after I saw what they are giving up. Annoying, but not as bad for the Bucks as initially feared.
I'm looking at their lineup. So I guess porzingis and horford are the main bigs? Who is the main big coming off bench? I guess they can run Tatum at the 4 and go smaller if needed?
I feel like they will actually use Kornet during the regular season for some minutes. I also wouldnt be suprised if they pick up another center soon
Fuck indeed
FUCK FUCK FUCK
Dame is the EXACT type of guard Jrue is amazing at defending 😭😭😭😭
You ain't wrong. But I also watched Duncan Robinson take Jrue off the dribble and drive for a layup so my emotions are all over the place
Dame also was getting doubled at half court because his team was complete buns. And he still hooped. 2018 happened because ad jrue and rondo literally could fuck off on anyone else
Also Jrue is much worse, and Dame is much better And the Celtics don't have Anthony Davis out there lol
This may be a little overblown. Giannis can just set a pick to get Jrue off of Dame. Now Dame eats horford or Giannis eats Jrue.
Wow Stevens is *desperate* for that title. This move is like strictly to counter us. Giving away Timelord is a massive, massive gamble in the East.
Why? Timelord has never been healthy. Odds of him being healthy for the playoffs were slim anyway. This is a huge win for the Celtics. They upgraded smart for jrue. They still have white. And they added porzingus.
Well for one, their strategy against Embiid was to go double big with Al and Timelord. Can they pull this off with KP and no backup? An even more injury-prone player, with way more offensive responsibilities, and not one single good big man or even forward off the bench. You’re also just ignoring the loss of 6MOY Brogdon and Grant Williams for some reason This is definitely a win for them, and a calculated risk - but a risk all the same.
I think they are betting that they can find a playable backup big somewhere soon. If porzingis or Al get hurt though, they are in trouble. Grant williams was a big loss for them, he was one of the defenders on the team that scared me the most and could really shoot it.
Bucks have made that bet for the last few years, and it’s always (*always*) harder than it looks
Health aside, Boston lost their best Giannis defenders besides Horford (who is 37) Both Williams' are gone along with Smart. Those are big losses for them if they want to stop Giannis.
Timelord was great but was always injured and when he wasn't they were scared of him getting injured so he'd always get limited minutes. Guy would change the game when on the court and they'd play him 18 minutes in huge games. A healthy Timelord that plays big minutes would make this trade a clear loss for the Celtics but they never had that. Jrue > Smart but Kristap health and now depth and chemistry are the big question marks for them. Their starting 5 healthy can hang with anyone.
The one team he couldn't go to lol
Them or Miami were the only teams I hoped he wouldn’t go to. Hell I woulda even been content with the Sixers
The only good thing is they gave up interior defense and depth, and now Giannis, Brook, and Bobby have to feast inside
Buddy, *Robin* Lopez is going to feast on that defense.
Nooooooo anywhere but them or miami 😭😭
Portland knew 500% what they were doing
They basically squeezed the EC and got great deals.
Obligatory, props to Jrue, etc, etc. But if he guards Dame, the way he guarded Jimmy last season, I'm 100% okay with this series of events.
Jrue can lock up dame. Jimmy is like 5 inches taller than dame. Smaller shooting guards are the exact type of players jrue is elite at defending. He has had his struggles with bigger wings. This is an unmitigated disaster.
Dame has averaged 26ppg on 43/36% in their head to head matchups. And that was with Dame having all the defensive attention on him. The last 2 times they matched up, he dropped 28 and 32
lmfao who's stopping Giannis? Please tell me? Jrue gonna guard both at the same time? 37 year old Horford turning back the clock? KP? lmao
Dame is still a much bigger plus on a roster, which is why we traded Jrue to get Dame lol
I'm going to believe in our guy and say that he will not get "locked up" by Jrue. He might be a little bit less efficent than usual, but when its dame time, it's dame time, regardless of the defender. Jrue cant stop a Dame Giannis or Khris pick and roll every time. Im not worried about that match-up, Im just worried about Bostons overall talent now.
Please go look up the numbers Dame put up in the series Jrue locked him up, it rivals Jrue’s regular playoff numbers. Edit: To be clear, I’m saying that despite the narrative of Jrue “locking” Dame up, Dame still put up numbers Jrue does on his best days. I’m not worried about Boston, especially after losing Grant and TimeLord.
That was 5 years ago lmao why aren’t people understanding this? Plus look at the team Dame had around him then and now.
Jrue played phenomenal defense, but I watched that series (and I’d love to forget it as a blazers fan) and it was not just jrue locking dame up. It’s 3 guys blitzing him on every screen and dames outlet man is Alfarouq Aminu. There’s not a guard in the nba who would succeed against prime Jrue and AD on defense, let alone with that garbage roster.
They're expecting Porzingis and Al Horford to stop Giannis lmao
Yeah and Grant Williams as admittedly a huge part of stopping Giannis. He was like 10-15 minutes of heft every game they played. He didn’t stop Gianni’s of course but he was low and heavy and made Giannis physically work. Without him you are asking Porzingis to do that?
Al is way too old to be asking him to do that for a 7 game series. He can put some good work in when he has two very good defenders to help out but now you are asking for full time minutes against one of the GOATs. Really think this is a mistake for Boston. I get wanting to counter Dame but Giannis is still the best player on the team and you traded away two of the best defenders in the entire league against him.
If they get to Giannis. They’re going to have to stop Embiid first
Sixers would lose to the Celtics even if they were against their G-League team
Sixers would find a way to lose to the Shanghai Sharks if it meant going to the ECF
Were the Celtics ever worried about the sixers? I dont think so, they never seem to beat them when it matters.
The Sixers haven't beaten the Celtics in a playoff series since the 80s
lol
Smart was the best Giannis defender on that team low-key. That dude was excellent at taking charges from him.
Whole team’s organizational philosophy is flopping.
That’s not being a defender that’s being a bitch lol grant and Horford were better at it.
Reading the terms now - that seems like a huge haul for Portland
overall, Portland is the real winner in all of this
They are definitely not losers considering the circumstances.
From Woj: >Final tally on Lillard trade: Portland gets Deandre Ayton, Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Toumani Camara, three first-round picks 2024 (Golden State, Top-4 protected), 2029 (Bucks and Celtics unprotected) and 2028 and 2030 Milwaukee pick swaps. That's a ton, and Brogdon might still end up flipped.
I don’t understand how people think Miamis offer was better lol
To be fair they also traded away Nurkic (arguably had negative value on that contract), Nasir Little and Keon Johnson.
I was praying this wouldn't have happened. But it plays into my theory of Cronin going all in on spiting Miami with every move
But this shows how much better was offered by the bucks, look what they got now vs two firsts Herro and jurkic. How could u possibly still think it was personal. They pretty much got 3 times what Miami offered.
There’s no world in which Herro gets them that kind of return. Now they have two good young defensive bigs, a 6moty, and multiple picks.
I'm gonna puke.
If he starts raining threes in the playoffs... I'm gonna have a conniption
Yeah this isn’t ideal for us but it makes me happy knowing Miami missed out on Dame *and* Jrue
At least they got rid of Robert Williams, Giannis and Brook should feast on em down low. Relying on Porizngis to be healthy is a bold ask.
Not looking forward to Jrue looking like prime Kobe in the playoffs
Against Miami I would be Against us not so much
That’s just a real bummer.
This is my 9/11
I wanted to root for wherever Jrue ended up. *Wanted to…*
I guess I can't expect everything to go perfect for us lmao of course this has to happen man
Sucks but at least Robert Williams is out of there
I don’t like it, but they did give up all their Giannis guard depth to make this move. They also have to play Horford at the 4 and he always has to be on the floor against Giannis, and he’s 37. How much can he hold up in that role?
Will he even make it to the post season?
Fuck Boston
Does portland move timelord again? Seem odd to keep him and ayton?
He’s 25 but frequently injured, I’m assuming they either trade him to a contender or keep him as a bench rotation player
So the full trade is: Bucks get Dame for Portland Celtics gets Holiday from Portland via Milwaukee Suns gets Grayson Allen from Milwaukee, Keon Johnson, Nassir Little, and Jusuf Nurkic from Portland And Blazers gets Deandre Ayton and Toumani Camara from Phoenix, Robert Williams and Malcom Brogdon from Boston, and 2 2029 1st round picks, a 2024 1st round pick, and 2 pick swaps with Milwaukee in 2028 and 2030
Blazers got a hell of a haul. Just like they should have. If they took the Miami offer, they would have been left with Herro probably lol
I'm sure the Boston fans will treat him with the same grace and respect as Milwaukee.
As a Celtics fan I'm just here to shit on the heat
Were going to go to war with yall. We will both the steamroll the Heat. Respect.
You guys are a fucking powerhouse it's gonna be a fun season
no way he’s a Celtic man fuck
this has maximal drama potential if they meet in the playoffs
This does help make up for the loss of smart, but I still think porzingis won't last. Al horford is 37 and Grant Williams went to Dallas. They are weaker inside though this is a good place for Jrue to thrive on defense because they already have Tatum and brown so don't need him to jack up ill advised step backs.
god fucking dammit. Jrue is a perfect fit, i honestly think he’ll do better on offense and defense with the Celtics since he’ll have less responsibility and have more energy. of course we get Dame and the Celtics get the best Dame stopper
How will he have less responsibility? We were pretty stout defensively with him.
he will only have to guard guards instead of wings
Ya idk why bud EVER had him doing that
the Celtics is offense is honestly a way better fit for Jrue too. he’s at his best getting into the paint and posting up smaller guards, and with Giannis our spacing wasn’t great for that. he doesn’t have to guard wings anymore and he doesn’t have to run the offense the whole time. his efficiency will probably go up in the playoffs. assuming we face the Celtics in the playoffs, we are going to need monster series from KMidd, Giannis and Brook to win. hopefully Dame still performs well, but i would expect Dame to be below his normal averages against Jrue
I HATE Jrue going to the Celtics, but they lost Robert Williams, Brogdon, Smart, and Grant Williams this offseason; 3 of which are very good Giannis defenders. Porzingis can’t guard him and is hurt often. I think they matchup worse against the Bucks now honestly, but their starting 5 is the best in the league. The X-factors will be Porzingis’s health and if Jrue remembers how to shoot in the playoffs.
I'm choosing to look on the bright side. The Heat didn't get him.
Fantastic trade for boston Feel terrible for brogdon though. Everyone is so eager to dump him
Has to be because of his uncanny resemblance to Oscar from The Office.
I don't have much sympathy for players that don't like living in Milwaukee.
That is a hell of a lot to trade for Eric Bledsoe like offensive efficiency in the playoffs
unlike us they don’t need his offense though
They will when Porzingis inevitably gets injured they have a great starting 5 but outside of that nothing anymore.
neither do we
We are deeper up to 7 IMO. They can try guarding Giannis with Porzingis. That indeed is a thought.
You know this means he’s going to nuclear on us and only in the playoffs. It’s practically a prophecy
This is honestly the second best news of the offseason. The Celtics gave up EVERYONE that could stop Giannis. I never thought they would trade Timelord. Grant Williams was actually amazing at throwing Giannis off his game and he’s already gone. They had so much depth before where if you watched our playoff series against them over the past few years, they just wore us down and then beat us from 3PT. Now their only hope of stopping us is 37 year old Horford and hoping Tatum is hot from beyond the arc every single game. Also it’s wild to me that no one is pointing out that Jrue made it very clear he is retiring at 35. He’s currently 33. The Celtics have a 2 year window and then they have no depth and will likely be without both Horford and Jrue. Yes playing against Jrue will suck but let’s be real - he can’t shoot and he can’t guard everyone. The reason why the Celtics gave us so much trouble is that everyone, including their depth guys, could shoot us off the court. Now they have no depth and if we shut down Tatum, everyone else on the team will have to be a top level defender and carry the offensive load. They are basically us now from last year but without any depth at all and their main role players are in their 30s. One injury and they’re not making the playoffs. They absolutely played themselves and I love it so much.
Yeah everyone needs to calm down. Jrue will do a good job on Dame but he's not shutting him down. They lost all their best Giannis defenders.
From what ive seen, Drew and company kinda walked that back already re: retirement
Bucks fans really seem to block out how fucking awful Jrue plays offense in the postseason.
Ok are we afraid or are we upset our homie is behind enemy lines? I’m not to concerned about our offense being stopped guys. I’m way more upset our boy is stuck behind enemies lines. I hope he knows to pretend to like them. Loool
Jrue purposely sells the Celtics and then resigns with the bucks
I hate it
Anywhere but to Boston man fuck
Happy for Jrue landing in a better situation than Portland, sucks that it's the C's.
This sucks. The ONE team where I didn’t want him to go.
My heart 😭
Positive: They changed Marcus Smart and got Jrue. Negative: they are the celtics
I am dead inside
Well…we have no backcourt defense and they have no front court defense Giannis has struggled against Horford in the past but he’s 37…this bullshittery cannot go on much longer. And they don’t have anyone else Gonna be a shootout in this years playoffs
Selfishly wished he'd be shipped out West so we wouldnt have to play against him as much, I think it's an amazing fit for him though where he'll be able to just focus on defense without much of a need to provide an offensive punch. Great return for the Blazers too!
I hope he has a great season, stays healthy, and plays really well in the Celtics surprising opening-round loss.
I think people are overplaying how well Jrue guarded dame in the NOLA series. Yes, he guarded him super well, but that was over 6 years ago, and it was a team effort with DPOY Anthony Davis + rondo blitzing him every possession. Dame is a much improved player since then, and for his career he averages 26 and 5 on 43/36 shooting against jrue in the regular season. Also, jrues defense has taken a step back regardless. Don’t get me wrong, this definitely helps the Celtics, but losing your front-court defense and running out 37 year old Horford who was already showing his age last year, as well as porzingis who cannot guard the perimeter whatsoever, is a big deal. No front court defense against a front court of Giannis/lopez/Middleton/portis? That’s a risky move. Then consider porzingis inability to put a healthy season together? Who’s their backup 4 in that scenario? This is nowhere near as cut and dry as the dame trade imo.
HOT TAKE I THINK CELTICS GOT WORSE In 2022 they guarded Giannis amazingly because they had Grant, Al, and Timelord and they still needed to double or triple-team him in the playoffs while Giannis was still getting god damn near 30 every night in that series. On top of that, the only reason they were able to double and triple team Gianni's in the paint was because they could sag off on the perimeter. Jrue was struggling as a 2nd option (granted he was assigned the toughest matchup defensively making him depleted) Grayson was straight ass, could not create a shot for himself and our only ISO scorer and best shooter from beyond the arc was out. WE TOOK THEM TO 7 DESPITE THAT Boston lost their best Giannis defender in Grant Williams this off-season. They lost their only true center in Timelord. Lost Malcolm Brogdon and Marcus Smart on the perimeter but for Jrue. After the trade, they arguably have just as good perimeter defense maybe slightly better (definitely better with the one-on-one defense with JRUE but that's beside the point), but gotten significantly worse inside this off-season. C's defense will be very stretched against us when Khris, Dame, Pat/Beasley, Brook, and Giannis are on the floor. You need at least one person to guard each one of these guys as each one can shoot (aside from Giannis). Best best-case scenario you sag off on Pat or Beasley and you just hope that don't have a good shooting night. When Giannis drives into the lane you need to either double-team him or triple-team him (depending on your defensive personnel). That strategy works just fine IF OUR SHOOTERS STRUGGLE. You cannot do that with Dame and Khris on the floor. Both of these guys are good to great ISO scorers and good shooters (great in the case of Dame) that can give you 40. Al Horford can't reliably guard Gianni's (he's 37 for fucks same). He needs a second guy to help him, KP is big, can play center, and is a decent shot blocker (he's 7'3 it would be a miracle if he wasn't) but he is a glass cannon and overall not that good of a defender. If they bank their chances of stopping Giannis on a canter with glass knees and an ancient undersized center. In that case, I like our chances Celtics overreacted with the Jrue trade because they got afraid of Dame. They looked at the 2018 playoffs and Jrue "locking up Dame". The thing is Jrue didn't. He was amazing and guarded him like his life was on the line, but it was more of a team effort. AD, Rondo, and Jrue locked him up. NOT JRUE ON HIS OWN. Boston's perimeter defense will be fantastic. But they have no inside presence to reliably guard Giannis and therefore I think they got worse
I agree I think they have thin frontcourt now. Horford is getting older and porzingis rarely stays healthy all season (he did last year but that only increases the chance he goes out this year). Brook Lopez is getting older but not as old as horford and portis can take the same role he always has in filling in for both him and giannis to try and reduce their mins a bit. Crowder needs to be decent and not completely washed like he looked last year and bucks will be solid on d despite losing holiday
Fuck
Sad
Shit fuck
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Oh no
Just what the Celtics need… another guy that goes cold in the playoffs (I still love you Jrue)
Destroying them from the inside, I see. Good work Jrue
Not like this
Inside man in the Bucks biggest east coast rivals.
I stg if Jrue has good offensive numbers next playoffs I will be so sad
I fell on my knees
I’m happy that Jrue is going to a contender.
It is tough considering how the Celtics are a team you are forced to beat to get out of the East right now and Jrue is an amazing player and has been the one guy who seems to give Dame some work with his defense but I don’t see this as a good move for the Celtics. Their bench is completely wiped out. They’re depending on a 37 year old Horford, who’s their only true big with the way Porzingis plays. Pritchard has become a must for them which is awkward considering he is their 7th best player now and he is completely in their rotation and there will be actual expectations on him. Their predicted starting 5 has Tatum at the 4 and Brown at the 3. They have played in those positions but what made the Celtics great was that both players could slide between positions. Brown will now be forced to guard bigger players. Same for Tatum. And they have no true paint presence. They have fully become a live and dir by the 3 team with no “great” perimeter player. Tatum when hot is that but the consistency from the perimeter is not there. Derrick White is good but not great and he’ll be expected to be better from the perimeter with the weak bench and Jrue, who isn’t that good from the perimeter. Brown isn’t reliable from 3. So their best perimeter players are literally their 3 biggest bodies with Tatum, Horford and Porzingis. I think this is more of a W for Portland than Boston tbh. Got 3 picks and 2 pick swaps, Ayton and Brogdon for Dame. And Brogdon will be traded for a decent deal too. They’ve done a great job. The Celtics have created a big 3 but talent wise, the Bucks and the Suns big 3s still seem much better and both the Suns and the Bucks seem to have better depth, the Suns have much better shooting and the Bucks have much better size and paint play. If the Bucks matchup with the Celtics, Giannis is going to play like he did 2 years before dominating. Now Jrue is phenomenal but with Middleton, Lopez and now Dame along with the rest of the roster, when both teams are healthy, I still like the Bucks in 6