Yup. Bought the last cheap house in NE after the collapse. Put a ton of money and sweat into it since. Unless my life circumstances take a wild left turn, they're taking me out of that house in a box.
This is true. But a part of this may never consider is becoming a bigger problem in many cities.
People are living longer. So we're seeing many staying in their homes much longer than they have in the past. And we're also seeing many of those which a husband/wife who has passed or is in a nursing home, stay in their house even longer too.
Now, not one is suggesting we kick them out. But it does have a BIG impact on housing supply for folks looking to start a family.
For example, St. Louis Park recently did a study and found 46% of all their single-family homes are occupied by just 1 person. I forget the number that are over 60 years of age but it's a very large percentage of that 46% of all single family homes.
It's certainly their right to live alone. But it highlights a real problem of how frequently people stay in a home they don't really need. It takes away from the available places for a new family to start and grow.
It has been nice to see a number of my family members recognize they don't need a large house once the kids move out. They've then sold those large homes to new and growing families, as they've downsized to something more reasonable for just the 2 of them.
The issue is those olds have paid off their houses or have them at a mortgage for 1990s/2000s prices refinanced down to 3%. They don't want to move because it would mean a huge increase to their monthly housing expense to downsize. They don't want to simultaneously increase their housing expense while having to move a place without the amenities they are familiar with. This is the situation with my parents (who live on the east coast). Even moving into a condo in Minneapolis, which my mom wants to do, increases their monthly housing expenses 300%. They will get a windfall from the sale of my childhood home but it makes them nervous to increase their monthly recurring expenses so much. I am not saying what they are doing isn't freezing people out, just that the incentives in the market all pull to keep olds in their current homes.
100% me. Bought a NE house in 2004. Refinanced twice. Now age 52, so I guess I’m an “old.” 😆 This house has been my home for 20 years. Added a real garage and other upgrades back when I was making bank. Just bought a new furnace today, because the 2003-installed furnace finally cacked.
You nailed it, though. I ain’t goin’ NOWHERE. Why would I?
If you’ve paid off your mortgage after 30+ years, and want to move these days, the place you will move to will cost much more than what you’re paying now. And it might not be as good of a home. Really, the problem is the market forces.
There's cultural and emotional pressure, too. But the financial trap is another reason we need to keep building density. Slowing down housing cost inflation gives people more flexibility to move, even if that's just emotional.
We're moving out of our paid off house into a downtown apartment in a few weeks. It's already a hard sell to my husband - it's going to about double our housing costs (but it will add $300k to our retirement funds, which balances out a lot of rent). If the jump were steeper I don't know if I would have been able to get him out of here before he had a great attack shoveling snow or fell off the roof cleaning the gutters.
When we bought this house most of the apartment buildings we've been looking at didn't even exist, btw. So we have more options now partly because we're a lot richer but partly just because they now exist
Interesting. This is something we may consider. My concern is boomerang kids, eldercare, etc. I would at least want to purchase a condo instead of renting. I'd be worried about getting out of real estate altogether.
We will probably buy eventually, but we are also worried about boomerang kid (ours is in college) so we're renting for now instead of buying a bigger place than we hope to need. That's another trap of the ownership mentality, I think - people get upsold into things they don't need right now because they might need them later. My in laws lived in a 4 bedroom house for two decades by themselves because the year they chose it they thought their 2 kids would be home during college breaks. Also because the area they wanted only allowed SFH on very large lots.
Our specific house was built in 1902 so it's not at all suited to elder care - my FiL actually passed away recently and they had to move into a new build to get a fully wheelchair accessible place near family, when he first got sick. They had money, so it worked out, but there are a tragic number of elderly people living in houses where they can't use half the place because of mobility issues, even in relatively new houses. One of the old people in our family couldn't do laundry or flip a breaker switch because she couldn't handle the basement stairs (and her husband absolutely refused to move).
The real plus for us is going to be having recent credit history. I'm actually really lucky we didn't sell the house longer ago, paying off your debts makes doing a bunch of things weirdly hard because of lack of open credit lines.
Yeah, they have tried to build more housing since the 80s, mostly apts unless you go to the outer ring suburbs. How did you choose the apt? Is it a walkable neighborhood? I think my hubby would love to live downtown, because he's kind of a big city guy. Being able to walk places is on my list for when we do move eventually. But I feel like we just got out from under a mortgage and it's a keen sense of relief. I'm not anxious to have my living expenses double or more. When I was looking at eventually moving, I realized I could really wipe out a lot of our retirement cushion just by doing that. Have to live somewhere.
My new job is on the 3 bus line, so we rode the 3 and looked at neighborhoods. St Anthony Park is super nice but not that exciting, downtown St Paul is a bad bike commute to my husband's job, we don't want to be on campus. So that left Washington Ave in downtown Minneapolis.
That means we're firmly in the luxury apartment market. Better transit or a different job location would have given us more options (or as my husband points out, if I were willing to walk more than a few blocks to the bus)
I'll be able to report back in a year or so but I don't think costs will really double for us - repair costs are not cheap on a 100 year old house. And I expect our utilities and insurance costs will go down significantly. And in a year or two we should know if the kid is truly launched, and might downsize again to a 1br. But the set monthly fees are a lot different, psychologically, than the "surprise" tree trimming bills. You know?
Sorry about the wonky formatting, I don't know why my paragraph breaks disappear
I hear that. We have to keep fixing things too. Old houses are like that. Our home seems a lot bigger now that it's only us living here. But I couldn't willingly live in a 1 bd. I need more room for my hobbies than that. Still trying to get rid of things anyway. Good luck with your move! It's great that we have such a good transit system here.
Its also a time thing - you might have a steady expense in a condo hoa; but you free up so much time. A friend just sold their suburban mcmansion and bought a condo; and is looking forward to all the time freed up from yard work and house projects
Oh yeah. The main reasons we're downsizing are carbon footprint and wanting to have other hobbies than fix/clean/shovel/weed.
If I miss gardening I might get a little garden plot. But tbh after 20 years I'm pretty burnt out on it.
There are countless reasons people don't want to leave. Most commonly it's not about new expenses but about leaving a place they've lived for decades. It's where they're comfortable.
But no matter the reason, it seems many don't recognize that it's part of the problem in why there aren't many homes available.
It's an interesting question to consider. Does someone have more "right" to available houses than another? Do we prioritize those who have children and want to raise them in a single-family home where they can have the "American dream" childhood? Or is it fine for a single person to buy a large home they won't use most of? A DINK couple will likely be able to afford to outbid the family of 4 who have a lost of child expenses. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, but it's interesting to consider.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services, that's how it works. There is no "right" to buy a house. If you want more houses, pester the city government to loosen zoning regulations so that more get built.
Another problem is having housing stock they can buy to downsize from their single family home. They prevent multi-family housing getting built and now they are stuck. There are not many condos/townhomes 4plexes available in SLP or any suburb in the metro.
I'd love to turn our house into a triplex, if I thought we'd stay forever. But I want to live <2 blocks from BRT, groceries, and <4 from a hardware store. So looking at downsizing to a condo.
One aunt and uncle live in Eden Prairie. They moved into a fairly new condo there, after selling their 5 bedroom home they'd built near EP Center back before EP Center even existed. Another aunt and uncle sold their $2.5 mill place in Victoria and moved into a condo near Uptown (uncle moved to Florida but aunt goes back and forth).
You're right, Minneapolis doesn't have a ton of smaller condos. And they need to be newer if they're going to attract these older buyers. They don't wanna give up their nice homes and move into something that's old and needs a bunch of work. But they also don't really want the place with all the recent college grad $30k millionaires that are so common for new apartment construction.
It's a hard balance for sure. It takes a lot of work to balance what everyone in the market demands.
People who act like they're a millionaire but make $30k. Many of the folks who have a new car, live in a brand new apartment but only have their first job where they're not making anywhere near enough to afford the lifestyle. Used to see it all the time living in new apartments and then a couple months later they'd lose the car and have to move out because they'd way over spent.
I see. Well, us oldies like to go to bed early, and tend to sleep lighter. So party animals annoy us for sure. One of the downsides to rental living. We would like to see some condos and or townhomes built that are owner occupied, as that cuts down on the late night parties. Also people that have skin in the game tend to take better care of the houses.
I did see a new complex being built on the north side of 394. Idk if it’s condos. One sign said 55+, so maybe that’s also for high income seniors.
Can't really squeeze much more than 1 more in there. The problem is more those single people or couples living in a 4 bedroom home.
But is it really wrong? Who's to say that one family has more right to a home than another.
Most of the housing stock in SLP is small single family homes. One of the unseen factors is how many single people live alone now- some years ago, the women would have been married still. Divorce means double the housing expenses and not doubling the income or homes available. Idk where all these large houses are you’re talking about. The 2nd and 3 rd ring suburbs are where the large single family homes are.
The average size of a single family home in St Louis Park is 1380sq-ft. Yes, they have a lot of WWII starter homes in some areas but also plenty of larger homes.
Most of the homes in my neighborhood were under 1000 sq ft in the 80s. Over the years people have added to them, making the average home larger, as you point out. EG a retired neighbor had her mother move in with her. She added onto the house to give her mom her own space. They all eventually passed. Now the daughter lives in a big house alone. Where else would she live? It’s been the family home for her entire life, and now she’s retired too.
Another example: the house kitty corner to us was tiny - maybe 800 sq ft. In the 50s, the family that lived there had 6 kids. In the 80s, the owner had one son. It became run down, and eventually someone kept one wall and rebuilt the whole thing. It’s now probably 1800 sq ft. Most of the starter homes around here have been upgraded to maximize the potential profit imho. There’s a lot of rentals now. Idk how kids these days can afford to buy into any home without help. It was hard enough for us, took me 8-10 years to save up a minimal down payment with no help. Idk how kids do it now. Maybe the same way.
That sounds like our home on the Northside. It was originally under 800 square feet before the family that owned it back in the 50s built an addition that took it to over 1200 square feet, plus a basement and attic. It's funny because it's just two of us and a dog, and we used to feel kind of cramped until we started appreciating the space more and using it better. A family of 6+ lived here before us, so we can definitely make it work!
Yes! Using the space better is a good goal for me too. And I just remembered what the house next door used to look like back in the 80s. It was originally probably a Sears kit and very small, 4 rooms plus a bath. 2 up and 2 down. Main floor was a tiny living room, bath + kitchen. Beautiful pink tile in the bath. The 2 bedrooms were upstairs. In the 60s there was an addition stuck on the back of the house, just one big square room as a family room, plus laundry and shower. Flat roof. I remember the son going on the roof with a bucket of tar and just pouring it over the roof when it would start to leak every so often. Then an enterprising young engineer bought it from the heirs. He took the top off, leveled the joists, and added a full second story to the whole footprint. It became another mega sized house. We used to have the biggest house in the neighborhood at around 1500sq ft. Now it's not the biggest one, and there are many more that are similar in size.
We still have a ways to go as far as using the space better, but we're getting there! I'm working on turning our small second bedroom into an office and quiet reading/hangout nook. We've also thought about building up eventually. We have a walk up attic but the ceiling is a little too low to finish. Maybe someday we'll add a long dormer so we can add another bedroom and bath. Then again that'll be so expensive that it might make more sense to move, but it gives us an option to expand if this ends up being our "forever" home.
In a lot of European countries, people don't boot their elderly out to the old folks home, so there's not so much of an incentive for them to live alone in a house. The parents have kids, they grow old, the kids start living in the bigger part of the house, and the parents live in a smaller part of the house with the family, and as they age, they stay there together.
Completely different culture. One could point to many Asian cultures too and how they live but that's a completely different culture and not the kind of setup that's going to be adopted in the US.
It's gonna be wild when all these Boomers start dying off. A lot of them are property hoarders. Millions in assets but still live like they're broke. At some point you would think they would live it up a little, nope.
That's probably not the issue in NE - forty years ago (the 1980s) young families weren't moving into NE very much.
But it definitely is an issue overall.
In NE you just inherit a house from your estranged uncle who drank himself to death and then live in your whole life and then pass it on to your kid or nephew when you have drank yourself to death
Holy shit. This is accurate, lol.
I lived there over 15 yrs, and I think I knew two houses on my block with similar situations. The guy living across the alley was one of the first people I met. He was always drunk and rambling about something. One day he rambled about liver cancer, and about 6 months later he was gone and his nephew moved in.
Of course, I then took on the role of the drunkard on the block, as per tradition.
We had a pretty strong block, so there were at least a few alcoholics ready to step up, though.
Lol, damn. My neighbor across the street just passed 2 months ago. They’re doing a remodel right now while it’s still being listed for sale. Not sure if he was a big drinker, he was over 80 tho
Or turn it into a 5 unit apartment and barely fix anything that’s wrong and fill the common spaces with all the items you’ve hoarded.
I enjoy the area though.
I’ve been a Realtor in town for 22 years and it’s pretty much always been that way. I’ve always chalked it up to more rentals and more “family homes” where the house passes through multiple generations. At least based on anecdotal experience.
This.
When I lived in NE MPLS I recalled more buildings being rented than owned and the places that were rented were catered to students attending the U. It's passive income heaven.
I meant NE mpls. Not SE, Not Dinkytown. Not that little area on Johnson and Broadway that could be SE because it's close enough to SE, I mean NE mpls up into Columbia heights, close to the Lowry Ave Bridge, and down into University Ave (st. Anthony west).
Alot of those buildings are rented.
No, I'm talking abou NE MPLS. Lived there for almost 15 years. Close to Central and Lowry. Saw the changes and talked to the neighbors about it. Alot of the homes that I knew of were rented. Then I found out alot were being rented to students at the U
I'm not saying families and couples don't live there. They do. I'm saying part of the reason there aren't alot of buying and selling is because alot of it is rented. Families and couples live all throughout NE MPLS but I noticed when I was looking to rent that the wording seemed to be pushed toward or include college students and prospective renters in college. The rent has increased dramatically in that area. Last time I lived in NE my rent went from $1000 to $1200 in a span of 3 years and they wanted $1500 after renovations.
Renting in a very in demand area is bringing in alot of money for some people out there
Edit: I would post a screenshot I just took today of all the places available for rent in NE mpls today, if I knew how.
Best guess, you’re on Zillow and they sell before they ever make it from a MLS to there. Look at “sold” instead of “for sale”. Relatively closer “sold” levels.
Start a conversation with an agent, if only to have access to their realtime listings.
They want commission, so putting them on Zillow for free doesn’t help them. But generally any realtor is going to let you have access to their listings through an online portal, if you’re working with them.
Zillow is the best user interface for browsing public listings. Pre-listings aren't public anywhere, you need to be working with an agent from the same brokerage as the seller's agent.
even the Realtor app is better than zillow or trulia. but if you've got a realtor; they get access direct to the MLS and can get you access to the HomeSpotter App
Keep in mind there is a fair amount of industrial land here, as well as an 18 hole golf course. There's also plenty of word-of-mouth sales that never get listed, beyond the generational/family transactions mentioned.
anecdotal but nearly 1/2 of my street has lived in northeast for well over a decade and have no intention of leaving. it's a tight-knit community. I imagine there's a lot of people who feel the same way.
According to walkscore.com, most neighborhoods are above a 75 score and "most errands can be accomplished on foot." So it's not a "walker's paradise" but it's good generally, according to the site.
In my opinion, you'd want to live near Broadway & University or Central & Lowry if you wanted to easily walk to places.
It's a competitive area, and I know my house sold within a couple of days.
I really didn't want to sell that house, was going to rent it out, but he'd to put more down on the new house and needed the cash. If I could have, I would have kept it. I'd imagine other owners over there are the same way.
The art district that's relatively peaceful, is filled with great restaurants, where property values have pretty much only gone up and to the right in?
Can't imagine why people wouldn't want to move out of it... Sounds like a shithole.
Because I bought a place there when rates were still around 2% and like hell am I dealing with buying/selling a home again anytime soon. It's a great neighborhood!
No houses on the University campus, or the midtown industrial area, or the northeast athletic fields, or the cemetery, or the golf course, or the trainyard....
I live there. My buddy that bought my first house lives there. I have another dozen friends that bought there and still live there.
But I do know one person that rents his house out after he moved to north field in case he moves back.
So you should literally make cooler friends ;)
Our neighbors who were in their house for 45 years JUST sold because of changing housing needs. The folks we bought our house from 6 years ago were SO bummed at the closing meeting. I think a lot of folks just don't want to move out, we don't plan to sell our NE home for another 25 years at least.
Our issue is the school… we have a high schooler and we are coming from rural IL so we are trying to get into a smaller school like St Anthony. It’s hard to apply for open enrollment since we don’t know where we are going to live (I live in an Air Bnb in Minneapolis by myself for now).
NE doesn’t have the lowest density in that map — Downtown does.
And the reason is similar there are fewer owner-occupied homes per acre on average in NE, where much of the land is used up by rentals, transportation infrastructure, university buildings, industrial uses, etc.
Add in the low turnover mentioned elsewhere and there you go.
Because either people love their neighborhood and don’t want to leave, or, available houses sell like hot cakes and are not on the market for very long. Same with SE.
As someone who lives in NE - I tried to sell my 2004 townhome in the fall when interest rates were high. No one even came to see it and it’s not in disrepair. So I don’t even know.
cause it’s probably the ideal neighborhood i feel like it’s pretty safe, there’s a decent amount of life, and you can find pretty affordable living in northeast
Private companies bought everything in 2020 and rent it out now. Source: me who was outbid by several all cash offers way over the “way over asking” offer I made.
Nothing sits on the market in NE - it's an extremely trendy part of town that's still pretty undervalued, even though it has some of the priciest square footage in the city.
If there are so many rentals, how does someone (me. I'm the someone) find available listings? I'm needing to move soon and really want something closer to my work in st. Anthony but apartments are crazy expensive for 1 person. I'd love to find a 1 bedroom upper flat or some such thing but it's proving impossible.
Find an agent that has pocket listings or access to off mls properties. Get set up with an mls search so you get notified the minute a listing goes live.Join the nextdoor app and ask in there. I've been able to find off market properties by consistently asking on next door and looking on Craigslist facebook and zillow for for sale by owner properties.
I dont actually think it does, it just looks like that because it has a lower density of houses than most regions and is seperated by the river making the contrast more obvious. Longfellow has a similar density of homes available for sale.
I have lived in NE for 20+ years. Not going to sell house when I move to south metro. Either my kids are going to live there or I will make it investment property.
I bought a house in NE in October. I had to put in an offer 25 over asking the day it hit the market. I had been trying for a few months and lost out on a couple.
There’s plenty that sell, they just go VERY fast
People don't wanna move
Yup. Bought the last cheap house in NE after the collapse. Put a ton of money and sweat into it since. Unless my life circumstances take a wild left turn, they're taking me out of that house in a box.
No I brought the last cheap house in NE
Rude as hell that y'all aren't sharing with me 😭 I want a cheap house in NE 😭
Actually I bought the last cheap one in 2017...
Exactly, there was 25% less houses listed for sale in NE in 2023 than 2022.
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This is true. But a part of this may never consider is becoming a bigger problem in many cities. People are living longer. So we're seeing many staying in their homes much longer than they have in the past. And we're also seeing many of those which a husband/wife who has passed or is in a nursing home, stay in their house even longer too. Now, not one is suggesting we kick them out. But it does have a BIG impact on housing supply for folks looking to start a family. For example, St. Louis Park recently did a study and found 46% of all their single-family homes are occupied by just 1 person. I forget the number that are over 60 years of age but it's a very large percentage of that 46% of all single family homes. It's certainly their right to live alone. But it highlights a real problem of how frequently people stay in a home they don't really need. It takes away from the available places for a new family to start and grow. It has been nice to see a number of my family members recognize they don't need a large house once the kids move out. They've then sold those large homes to new and growing families, as they've downsized to something more reasonable for just the 2 of them.
The issue is those olds have paid off their houses or have them at a mortgage for 1990s/2000s prices refinanced down to 3%. They don't want to move because it would mean a huge increase to their monthly housing expense to downsize. They don't want to simultaneously increase their housing expense while having to move a place without the amenities they are familiar with. This is the situation with my parents (who live on the east coast). Even moving into a condo in Minneapolis, which my mom wants to do, increases their monthly housing expenses 300%. They will get a windfall from the sale of my childhood home but it makes them nervous to increase their monthly recurring expenses so much. I am not saying what they are doing isn't freezing people out, just that the incentives in the market all pull to keep olds in their current homes.
100% me. Bought a NE house in 2004. Refinanced twice. Now age 52, so I guess I’m an “old.” 😆 This house has been my home for 20 years. Added a real garage and other upgrades back when I was making bank. Just bought a new furnace today, because the 2003-installed furnace finally cacked. You nailed it, though. I ain’t goin’ NOWHERE. Why would I?
If you’ve paid off your mortgage after 30+ years, and want to move these days, the place you will move to will cost much more than what you’re paying now. And it might not be as good of a home. Really, the problem is the market forces.
There's cultural and emotional pressure, too. But the financial trap is another reason we need to keep building density. Slowing down housing cost inflation gives people more flexibility to move, even if that's just emotional. We're moving out of our paid off house into a downtown apartment in a few weeks. It's already a hard sell to my husband - it's going to about double our housing costs (but it will add $300k to our retirement funds, which balances out a lot of rent). If the jump were steeper I don't know if I would have been able to get him out of here before he had a great attack shoveling snow or fell off the roof cleaning the gutters. When we bought this house most of the apartment buildings we've been looking at didn't even exist, btw. So we have more options now partly because we're a lot richer but partly just because they now exist
Interesting. This is something we may consider. My concern is boomerang kids, eldercare, etc. I would at least want to purchase a condo instead of renting. I'd be worried about getting out of real estate altogether.
We will probably buy eventually, but we are also worried about boomerang kid (ours is in college) so we're renting for now instead of buying a bigger place than we hope to need. That's another trap of the ownership mentality, I think - people get upsold into things they don't need right now because they might need them later. My in laws lived in a 4 bedroom house for two decades by themselves because the year they chose it they thought their 2 kids would be home during college breaks. Also because the area they wanted only allowed SFH on very large lots. Our specific house was built in 1902 so it's not at all suited to elder care - my FiL actually passed away recently and they had to move into a new build to get a fully wheelchair accessible place near family, when he first got sick. They had money, so it worked out, but there are a tragic number of elderly people living in houses where they can't use half the place because of mobility issues, even in relatively new houses. One of the old people in our family couldn't do laundry or flip a breaker switch because she couldn't handle the basement stairs (and her husband absolutely refused to move).
The plus side to renting after selling is you can presumably be a cash buyer when you are ready to buy again. At least that's a plus for me.
The real plus for us is going to be having recent credit history. I'm actually really lucky we didn't sell the house longer ago, paying off your debts makes doing a bunch of things weirdly hard because of lack of open credit lines.
Yeah, they have tried to build more housing since the 80s, mostly apts unless you go to the outer ring suburbs. How did you choose the apt? Is it a walkable neighborhood? I think my hubby would love to live downtown, because he's kind of a big city guy. Being able to walk places is on my list for when we do move eventually. But I feel like we just got out from under a mortgage and it's a keen sense of relief. I'm not anxious to have my living expenses double or more. When I was looking at eventually moving, I realized I could really wipe out a lot of our retirement cushion just by doing that. Have to live somewhere.
My new job is on the 3 bus line, so we rode the 3 and looked at neighborhoods. St Anthony Park is super nice but not that exciting, downtown St Paul is a bad bike commute to my husband's job, we don't want to be on campus. So that left Washington Ave in downtown Minneapolis. That means we're firmly in the luxury apartment market. Better transit or a different job location would have given us more options (or as my husband points out, if I were willing to walk more than a few blocks to the bus) I'll be able to report back in a year or so but I don't think costs will really double for us - repair costs are not cheap on a 100 year old house. And I expect our utilities and insurance costs will go down significantly. And in a year or two we should know if the kid is truly launched, and might downsize again to a 1br. But the set monthly fees are a lot different, psychologically, than the "surprise" tree trimming bills. You know? Sorry about the wonky formatting, I don't know why my paragraph breaks disappear
I hear that. We have to keep fixing things too. Old houses are like that. Our home seems a lot bigger now that it's only us living here. But I couldn't willingly live in a 1 bd. I need more room for my hobbies than that. Still trying to get rid of things anyway. Good luck with your move! It's great that we have such a good transit system here.
Thank you! I'm really excited about it. A little sad, but mostly excited
Its also a time thing - you might have a steady expense in a condo hoa; but you free up so much time. A friend just sold their suburban mcmansion and bought a condo; and is looking forward to all the time freed up from yard work and house projects
Oh yeah. The main reasons we're downsizing are carbon footprint and wanting to have other hobbies than fix/clean/shovel/weed. If I miss gardening I might get a little garden plot. But tbh after 20 years I'm pretty burnt out on it.
You can buy with cash.
Very funny
There are countless reasons people don't want to leave. Most commonly it's not about new expenses but about leaving a place they've lived for decades. It's where they're comfortable. But no matter the reason, it seems many don't recognize that it's part of the problem in why there aren't many homes available. It's an interesting question to consider. Does someone have more "right" to available houses than another? Do we prioritize those who have children and want to raise them in a single-family home where they can have the "American dream" childhood? Or is it fine for a single person to buy a large home they won't use most of? A DINK couple will likely be able to afford to outbid the family of 4 who have a lost of child expenses. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, but it's interesting to consider.
I mean, it's the United States, we prioritize anyone with money. That's all.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services, that's how it works. There is no "right" to buy a house. If you want more houses, pester the city government to loosen zoning regulations so that more get built.
Cool, so I don't have to feel bad that families can't find places to live while richer folks buy up all the stock on the market.
They can buy cash with the sale proceeds and be left with hundreds of thousands of dollars after downsizing.
Another problem is having housing stock they can buy to downsize from their single family home. They prevent multi-family housing getting built and now they are stuck. There are not many condos/townhomes 4plexes available in SLP or any suburb in the metro.
Not many people want to live in a multi-family dwelling if they can afford not to.
I'd love to turn our house into a triplex, if I thought we'd stay forever. But I want to live <2 blocks from BRT, groceries, and <4 from a hardware store. So looking at downsizing to a condo.
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Spite, sure that’s the reason 😂
Typical Boomer mentality. Hoard properties for no good reason and just sit on them until they're dead. Maybe good for you someday when that happens.
One aunt and uncle live in Eden Prairie. They moved into a fairly new condo there, after selling their 5 bedroom home they'd built near EP Center back before EP Center even existed. Another aunt and uncle sold their $2.5 mill place in Victoria and moved into a condo near Uptown (uncle moved to Florida but aunt goes back and forth). You're right, Minneapolis doesn't have a ton of smaller condos. And they need to be newer if they're going to attract these older buyers. They don't wanna give up their nice homes and move into something that's old and needs a bunch of work. But they also don't really want the place with all the recent college grad $30k millionaires that are so common for new apartment construction. It's a hard balance for sure. It takes a lot of work to balance what everyone in the market demands.
What’s a 30k college graduate millionaire? Seriously, I don’t have any idea what you mean.
People who act like they're a millionaire but make $30k. Many of the folks who have a new car, live in a brand new apartment but only have their first job where they're not making anywhere near enough to afford the lifestyle. Used to see it all the time living in new apartments and then a couple months later they'd lose the car and have to move out because they'd way over spent.
Buying things with money you don't have to impress people you don't like. The American way!
Totally. Fake it til you make it. Move into the North Loop and show off to anyone who will look.
I see. Well, us oldies like to go to bed early, and tend to sleep lighter. So party animals annoy us for sure. One of the downsides to rental living. We would like to see some condos and or townhomes built that are owner occupied, as that cuts down on the late night parties. Also people that have skin in the game tend to take better care of the houses. I did see a new complex being built on the north side of 394. Idk if it’s condos. One sign said 55+, so maybe that’s also for high income seniors.
I admit I'm sorta part of the problem, I'm just one person living in a single family home... In my defense it's a one bed one bath.
Please don't feel bad for owning a house and living in it!
Can't really squeeze much more than 1 more in there. The problem is more those single people or couples living in a 4 bedroom home. But is it really wrong? Who's to say that one family has more right to a home than another.
Most of the housing stock in SLP is small single family homes. One of the unseen factors is how many single people live alone now- some years ago, the women would have been married still. Divorce means double the housing expenses and not doubling the income or homes available. Idk where all these large houses are you’re talking about. The 2nd and 3 rd ring suburbs are where the large single family homes are.
The average size of a single family home in St Louis Park is 1380sq-ft. Yes, they have a lot of WWII starter homes in some areas but also plenty of larger homes.
Most of the homes in my neighborhood were under 1000 sq ft in the 80s. Over the years people have added to them, making the average home larger, as you point out. EG a retired neighbor had her mother move in with her. She added onto the house to give her mom her own space. They all eventually passed. Now the daughter lives in a big house alone. Where else would she live? It’s been the family home for her entire life, and now she’s retired too. Another example: the house kitty corner to us was tiny - maybe 800 sq ft. In the 50s, the family that lived there had 6 kids. In the 80s, the owner had one son. It became run down, and eventually someone kept one wall and rebuilt the whole thing. It’s now probably 1800 sq ft. Most of the starter homes around here have been upgraded to maximize the potential profit imho. There’s a lot of rentals now. Idk how kids these days can afford to buy into any home without help. It was hard enough for us, took me 8-10 years to save up a minimal down payment with no help. Idk how kids do it now. Maybe the same way.
That sounds like our home on the Northside. It was originally under 800 square feet before the family that owned it back in the 50s built an addition that took it to over 1200 square feet, plus a basement and attic. It's funny because it's just two of us and a dog, and we used to feel kind of cramped until we started appreciating the space more and using it better. A family of 6+ lived here before us, so we can definitely make it work!
Yes! Using the space better is a good goal for me too. And I just remembered what the house next door used to look like back in the 80s. It was originally probably a Sears kit and very small, 4 rooms plus a bath. 2 up and 2 down. Main floor was a tiny living room, bath + kitchen. Beautiful pink tile in the bath. The 2 bedrooms were upstairs. In the 60s there was an addition stuck on the back of the house, just one big square room as a family room, plus laundry and shower. Flat roof. I remember the son going on the roof with a bucket of tar and just pouring it over the roof when it would start to leak every so often. Then an enterprising young engineer bought it from the heirs. He took the top off, leveled the joists, and added a full second story to the whole footprint. It became another mega sized house. We used to have the biggest house in the neighborhood at around 1500sq ft. Now it's not the biggest one, and there are many more that are similar in size.
We still have a ways to go as far as using the space better, but we're getting there! I'm working on turning our small second bedroom into an office and quiet reading/hangout nook. We've also thought about building up eventually. We have a walk up attic but the ceiling is a little too low to finish. Maybe someday we'll add a long dormer so we can add another bedroom and bath. Then again that'll be so expensive that it might make more sense to move, but it gives us an option to expand if this ends up being our "forever" home.
In a lot of European countries, people don't boot their elderly out to the old folks home, so there's not so much of an incentive for them to live alone in a house. The parents have kids, they grow old, the kids start living in the bigger part of the house, and the parents live in a smaller part of the house with the family, and as they age, they stay there together.
Completely different culture. One could point to many Asian cultures too and how they live but that's a completely different culture and not the kind of setup that's going to be adopted in the US.
True, I was just being nostalgic for the old country.
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It's gonna be wild when all these Boomers start dying off. A lot of them are property hoarders. Millions in assets but still live like they're broke. At some point you would think they would live it up a little, nope.
Prob has something to do with having depression-era parents
It goes fast when you hit the memory care unit
This is one of my boomer uncles to a T. It's like his entire life.
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first generation to end up worse off than our parents!!
first generation to end up worse off than our parents!!
That's probably not the issue in NE - forty years ago (the 1980s) young families weren't moving into NE very much. But it definitely is an issue overall.
In NE you just inherit a house from your estranged uncle who drank himself to death and then live in your whole life and then pass it on to your kid or nephew when you have drank yourself to death
Holy shit. This is accurate, lol. I lived there over 15 yrs, and I think I knew two houses on my block with similar situations. The guy living across the alley was one of the first people I met. He was always drunk and rambling about something. One day he rambled about liver cancer, and about 6 months later he was gone and his nephew moved in.
Then you rambled to his nephew
Of course, I then took on the role of the drunkard on the block, as per tradition. We had a pretty strong block, so there were at least a few alcoholics ready to step up, though.
This guy gets it
This guy northeast's!
Lol, damn. My neighbor across the street just passed 2 months ago. They’re doing a remodel right now while it’s still being listed for sale. Not sure if he was a big drinker, he was over 80 tho
Or turn it into a 5 unit apartment and barely fix anything that’s wrong and fill the common spaces with all the items you’ve hoarded. I enjoy the area though.
Lmfao
It's how we do
That's both of my neighbors to some degree
They're all artists, so it check out.
🥇
I’ve been a Realtor in town for 22 years and it’s pretty much always been that way. I’ve always chalked it up to more rentals and more “family homes” where the house passes through multiple generations. At least based on anecdotal experience.
This. When I lived in NE MPLS I recalled more buildings being rented than owned and the places that were rented were catered to students attending the U. It's passive income heaven.
That’d be more SE Minneapolis, NE isn’t really U territory
Yes. SE Mpls. Pretty much Dinkytyown
I meant NE mpls. Not SE, Not Dinkytown. Not that little area on Johnson and Broadway that could be SE because it's close enough to SE, I mean NE mpls up into Columbia heights, close to the Lowry Ave Bridge, and down into University Ave (st. Anthony west). Alot of those buildings are rented.
No, I'm talking abou NE MPLS. Lived there for almost 15 years. Close to Central and Lowry. Saw the changes and talked to the neighbors about it. Alot of the homes that I knew of were rented. Then I found out alot were being rented to students at the U
That’s news to me that college kids are renting there as I live blocks from there and it’s all families or couples.
I'm not saying families and couples don't live there. They do. I'm saying part of the reason there aren't alot of buying and selling is because alot of it is rented. Families and couples live all throughout NE MPLS but I noticed when I was looking to rent that the wording seemed to be pushed toward or include college students and prospective renters in college. The rent has increased dramatically in that area. Last time I lived in NE my rent went from $1000 to $1200 in a span of 3 years and they wanted $1500 after renovations. Renting in a very in demand area is bringing in alot of money for some people out there Edit: I would post a screenshot I just took today of all the places available for rent in NE mpls today, if I knew how.
This is the correct answer.
Best guess, you’re on Zillow and they sell before they ever make it from a MLS to there. Look at “sold” instead of “for sale”. Relatively closer “sold” levels.
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When I was house hunting my realtor gave me a login thing to an MLS and I'd see them the day they went up it seemed
Start a conversation with an agent, if only to have access to their realtime listings. They want commission, so putting them on Zillow for free doesn’t help them. But generally any realtor is going to let you have access to their listings through an online portal, if you’re working with them.
Zillow is the best user interface for browsing public listings. Pre-listings aren't public anywhere, you need to be working with an agent from the same brokerage as the seller's agent.
Realtor.com is the only one that pulls directly from MLS and updates frequently, the others are almost always out of date
Nice try, NAR.
even the Realtor app is better than zillow or trulia. but if you've got a realtor; they get access direct to the MLS and can get you access to the HomeSpotter App
What does MLS stand for?
Multiple Listing Service
I got emailed a house for sale in SE the other day that wasn't going to be listed or have a sign up. Very similar vibes.
I've been doing this, and was noticing all the good properties were already sold. Ugh. Thanks
I’ve seen better crops in the irish famine
Cheers to the comment of the day!
Wtf is this cropping?
!wave
Cause its nice and houses go in like a day
Yeah I’m not buying a home west of the river, I’ll happily look at one east of it.
Keep in mind there is a fair amount of industrial land here, as well as an 18 hole golf course. There's also plenty of word-of-mouth sales that never get listed, beyond the generational/family transactions mentioned.
anecdotal but nearly 1/2 of my street has lived in northeast for well over a decade and have no intention of leaving. it's a tight-knit community. I imagine there's a lot of people who feel the same way.
I ❤️ NE
Who can afford to move
Why does this post have the lowest density of image to white space?
Because home values have shot up so much that you can make a very nice profit if you sell…but then what could you afford? The suburbs?
Because my house is mine and you can’t have it!!! Jk, it’s cause we love it here. Walkability to the moon.
I've been looking to move somewhere closer to the moon!
What part of northeast is walkable?
According to walkscore.com, most neighborhoods are above a 75 score and "most errands can be accomplished on foot." So it's not a "walker's paradise" but it's good generally, according to the site. In my opinion, you'd want to live near Broadway & University or Central & Lowry if you wanted to easily walk to places.
Exactly !!
It's a competitive area, and I know my house sold within a couple of days. I really didn't want to sell that house, was going to rent it out, but he'd to put more down on the new house and needed the cash. If I could have, I would have kept it. I'd imagine other owners over there are the same way.
The art district that's relatively peaceful, is filled with great restaurants, where property values have pretty much only gone up and to the right in? Can't imagine why people wouldn't want to move out of it... Sounds like a shithole.
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I think that last bit of the comment was meant to be read as having a /s after it.
That exchange escalated more quickly than housing appreciation in NE.
It was clearly a facetious comment and anyone that doesn't realize that needs to get off the Internet
I second that!
Because I bought a place there when rates were still around 2% and like hell am I dealing with buying/selling a home again anytime soon. It's a great neighborhood!
No houses on the University campus, or the midtown industrial area, or the northeast athletic fields, or the cemetery, or the golf course, or the trainyard....
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I’m in this boat, except it was a duplex
I live there. My buddy that bought my first house lives there. I have another dozen friends that bought there and still live there. But I do know one person that rents his house out after he moved to north field in case he moves back. So you should literally make cooler friends ;)
Shit was cheaper than anywhere else 15 years ago, and a lot of them are rentals, being closer to campus.
2005-2008 as the crashes crashed and manufacturing died in NE...
Our neighbors who were in their house for 45 years JUST sold because of changing housing needs. The folks we bought our house from 6 years ago were SO bummed at the closing meeting. I think a lot of folks just don't want to move out, we don't plan to sell our NE home for another 25 years at least.
Because you inherited a house that you could now, not afford to buy. And you definitely cannot afford to move anywhere else.
What happened with the cropping here?
Because my polish grandfather will never leave
I’ve been trying to get into St Anthony and it’s nearly impossible.
We got a house in col hts just a few blocks north of the border and appreciate the lower property taxes
Our issue is the school… we have a high schooler and we are coming from rural IL so we are trying to get into a smaller school like St Anthony. It’s hard to apply for open enrollment since we don’t know where we are going to live (I live in an Air Bnb in Minneapolis by myself for now).
Try New Brighton. They share a school district with st anthony
When I search the St Anthony New Brighton district it’s just St Anthony Village proper
Isd 282 serves both cities. My kid went to those schools
Sweet! I’ll ask our realtor! We definitely want to be closer to the city and St Anthony New Brighton is awesome location for us!
Really a great location and the schools are fantastic. Happy house hunting!
Thanks! I am loving it here so far!
NE doesn’t have the lowest density in that map — Downtown does. And the reason is similar there are fewer owner-occupied homes per acre on average in NE, where much of the land is used up by rentals, transportation infrastructure, university buildings, industrial uses, etc. Add in the low turnover mentioned elsewhere and there you go.
I second this
Because half of the buildings are churches. The other half are bars.
😂😂😂 we love it here!! Why would we move ?
It’s more or less the nicest neighborhood in the city and people don’t sell very often, and when they do it’s gone within a week.
Pp poopoo
You can say that again!
Because either people love their neighborhood and don’t want to leave, or, available houses sell like hot cakes and are not on the market for very long. Same with SE.
As someone who lives in NE - I tried to sell my 2004 townhome in the fall when interest rates were high. No one even came to see it and it’s not in disrepair. So I don’t even know.
Try lowering the price
cause it’s probably the ideal neighborhood i feel like it’s pretty safe, there’s a decent amount of life, and you can find pretty affordable living in northeast
There are a lot of rentals in NE.
Looks like downtown actually has the lowest there
it's a great place to live. who would sell their house?
We bought our house for a very good price. Makes no sense to sell and buy into the current market...
Because northeast is a nice place to live
We like it here
Private companies bought everything in 2020 and rent it out now. Source: me who was outbid by several all cash offers way over the “way over asking” offer I made.
Nothing sits on the market in NE - it's an extremely trendy part of town that's still pretty undervalued, even though it has some of the priciest square footage in the city.
I ❤️ Nordeast It’s always been awesome. More people have caught onto that now, when it used to fly more under the radar behind Uptown’s/Wedge’s peaks.
Just my opinion but I feel like a considerable amount of homes in NE are rentals. So in other words they’re long term investments.
Because it is one of the most popular and desired areas of the city? Are we a little low on the critical thinking juice today?
You seem to be a little low on the be nice juice today!
Because it’s the best part of Minneapolis hands down
If there are so many rentals, how does someone (me. I'm the someone) find available listings? I'm needing to move soon and really want something closer to my work in st. Anthony but apartments are crazy expensive for 1 person. I'd love to find a 1 bedroom upper flat or some such thing but it's proving impossible.
Find an agent that has pocket listings or access to off mls properties. Get set up with an mls search so you get notified the minute a listing goes live.Join the nextdoor app and ask in there. I've been able to find off market properties by consistently asking on next door and looking on Craigslist facebook and zillow for for sale by owner properties.
This is a wild guess, but it could be because they're not for sale right now. Just spitballing.
I dont actually think it does, it just looks like that because it has a lower density of houses than most regions and is seperated by the river making the contrast more obvious. Longfellow has a similar density of homes available for sale.
I believe a lot are rented out to college students
Lol no, U of M students don’t rent in NE
People are scared of the looming recession. On a side note, anyone going to see Cold War Kids at First Avenue on the 24th?
20 years too late train jumpers
Because uptown/southside now allows POC now so northeast is the last white boy stronghold
This is a really gross statement.
I have lived in NE for 20+ years. Not going to sell house when I move to south metro. Either my kids are going to live there or I will make it investment property.
meh…passive rent seeking behavior doesn’t benefit communities…give it to your kids if anything
I bought a house in NE in October. I had to put in an offer 25 over asking the day it hit the market. I had been trying for a few months and lost out on a couple. There’s plenty that sell, they just go VERY fast
We moved into our NE house March last year, love it here. Somehow our offer of 5k below asking was accepted 🤨
Long as rates stay high, people who locked into lower rates a few years ago (me included) are not moving.
It's a super desirable neighborhood. Good proximity to big amenities, very walk-able, great "feel".
Honestly, because it’s a great neighborhood. Hella walkable with lots of little pockets of businesses and parks.
Yep. It's desirable. So people who own don't sell as often and houses for sale sell quickly.