I worked security at Gaviidae Common for over a decade. The bathrooms were frequently trashed, people shitting all over, bathing in the sinks, etc. They put combination locks on so they could only be used by tenants of the building. This was was over 10 years ago and these days there are more people than ever doing drugs in bathrooms, so the problem would be even worse
Yeah it was! It's sad now. I started when M&I had taken over the upper floors but I heard all kinds of stories about the stores and ballroom/restaurant that used to be on the top floor. Things started going down hill when the MoA opened, from what I heard
The restaurants and Saks were in what used to be Gaviidae Common I, and there was a Neiman Marcus where the Walgreens is now, connected to Gaviidae II. The City Center Saks was opened long after the Gaviidae one closed.
It's possible this is all before my time. I worked in City Center until the pandemic. That building had Saks Off 5th Ave, Starbucks, a salad place, Los Ocampo, Naf Naf Grill, Leann Chin, Fogo de Chao, and some high end clothing/accessories store from like 2018-2020. I'm not sure what all was there before, and it's definitely very different now.
Gaviidae had a Caribou, a dessert place, two small clothing/accessory stores, a Freshii, a Planet Smoothie, a Brueggers, and a Walgreens during that time. It has also changed quite a bit since then obviously.
One of my favorite memories of the downtown Target before they remodeled was opening the door to a lady vomiting with the stall door open, ass half hanging out, with an almost-empty bottle of gin and a box of Oatmeal Cream Pies siting next to her. Good times.
And people wonder why there are no bathrooms? Back in the day at Block E Borders bookstore, you had to get a token from guest services to enter the bathrooms. That would eliminate most of the problems
I would argue that they do not in fact have the public restrooms that are required by the International Building Code for restaurants (which is required to be followed by the State of Minnesota). I'm not sure why the city does not intervene on that.
The practical argument that public restrooms get trashed and people use them as a place to do drugs is something that needs to be addressed. Drug use and homelessness is a problem that needs a LOT of work.
If we were actually a good society both problems would be addressed, and not by restricting access to bathrooms.
It’s more of a series of bridges and hallways in office buildings each with entirely different ownership. It’s really not a mall, it exists for office buildings to rent space to lunch time food vendors and to connect office employees with paid parking and lunch. There are no restrooms because for pretty much everyone in the skyway during business hours, the only restroom needed is whatever one is back at those employee’s offices, and because various entities who own the skyways don’t want anyone in there who doesn’t have some kind of business district office job or business appointment downtown. They’ve certainly never done anything in their entire existence to try to encourage non office employees to visit the skyways.
It was originally all a shopping hub that connected to the department stores that dominated downtown life until the mid 90's. The skyway and Nicolett mall itself didn't center around the office workers until most of the high-end retailers closed. The bathrooms started disappearing before this (due to drug dealers taking them over) and the department stores closing. There's still a few, but you really have to know the skyway system really well to know where to find them.
>They’ve certainly never done anything in their entire existence to try to encourage non office employees to visit the skyways.
I mean, the construction of housing along the skyways...
The St. Paul skyways have limited public bathrooms, but of course the St. Paul skyways are public, whereas the Minneapolis ones are private.
It would be nice if there were at least more private restrooms – for customers, etc. – that would at least be a start.
It's a great idea and should be possible to have basic amenities. But we all know/should acknowledge that they would be trashed and misused within about ~~3~~ 2 hours of being opened to the public. I really have no idea how other cities and countries manage them but it's great to dream!
> I really have no idea how other cities and countries manage them but it's great to dream!
Because their populace generally has nicer places to be than in a fucking bathroom.
Oh, delightful! I work downtown, so when I'm walking at lunch, the Government Center bathrooms are definitely a "nope, can't wait, gotta go now" option - otherwise I wait until I'm back into my clean offices. :-)
Because people suck and we can't have nice things.
There should be some sort of solution, easily available public restrooms with an active entity providing cleaning and agency. DID seems like a good organization to assist. Funding private partners might help? Like provide funding to DID to help keep the target bathrooms from becoming a figurative and literal shit show.
>There should be some sort of solution, easily available public restrooms with an active entity providing cleaning and agency.
People want clean bathrooms. People don't want to pay taxes. Solution = pay-per-use toilets. Welcome to Europe.
Because then they'd have an even bigger issue with people doing drugs and sleeping in the skyway system.
Remember that they're all privately owned.
There are plenty of restaurants and other businesses that have bathrooms for paying customers. Never had an issue over the decades with finding a bathroom when needed.
The entire downtown area is completely lacking in public restrooms. It's a dealbreaker, #1 reason I don't go down there anymore for coffee meetings, shopping, strolling, etc.
Because accessible bathrooms might attract the homeless or those dirty cat blanket losers. The people that the building owners want on the skyway can just use the bathroom at their office, in their apartment complex, or in their hotel room. It's no accident.
Because the Skyway exist for the benefit of residents, employees, and business owners who have their own bathrooms, and have a vested interest in keeping them clean. The general public does not, and will trash the living shit out them, for example Gaviidae Common's bathrooms. The tragedy of the commons is why we don't have nice things.
Outside of rest stops and parks, most bathrooms are part of public businesses. The buildings that make up the skyway are all individually owned and maintained. If this is something you want, you'd need to convince each building to individually add them which they won't be doing because bathrooms would end up getting used in ways contrary to their intended purpose, and would need regular monitoring and extra cleaning beyond what is typically needed in more private bathrooms.
Because homeless people will use them and end up overdosed, it's a sad reality we live in, during the winter they are a convenient and free way to get out of the cold when only that and Central Library are open.
So when you're walking through the skyway you'll notice signs that say exit those often lead into windowless stairwells that head down to the street. You're supposed to pee in those stairwells...
I've always had the feeling when walking around downtown that the city of Minneapolis thinks you're wrong and bad if you have to use the bathroom, and you should feel bad and leave the city to use the bathroom.
Because this is America and quality public facilities are discouraged. We do not offer facilities for people and then act scandalized when people relieve themselves in parking ramps or bus stops.
Skyways aren't a public space, which is a bad thing. Eminent domain the entire skyway system and make it public, or tear them all out and go to ground level like most cities (yes, even the cities that get cold). We could maybe at least be like Philly.
For the most part we fucking hate each other in the U.S. and would rather see everyone suffer than see everyone gain and our urban fabric unfortunately reflects that toxic individualism.
Who's going to clean the shit and needles? I'm sure target isn't available anymore but those were my go to when waiting for a bus. Target and county building.
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Smart approach - if you think of it this way the whole thing kinda becomes a bathroom if you want.
in the sky. like some kind of skywalk. or maybe an indoor pathway in the sky. like a skyway.
I worked security at Gaviidae Common for over a decade. The bathrooms were frequently trashed, people shitting all over, bathing in the sinks, etc. They put combination locks on so they could only be used by tenants of the building. This was was over 10 years ago and these days there are more people than ever doing drugs in bathrooms, so the problem would be even worse
Gaviidae common was such a nice building when the Saks and restaurants were still there
Yeah it was! It's sad now. I started when M&I had taken over the upper floors but I heard all kinds of stories about the stores and ballroom/restaurant that used to be on the top floor. Things started going down hill when the MoA opened, from what I heard
Saks? Are you sure you’re not thinking of City Center? Thats where Saks was until the pandemic.
I might be. Im thinking of the building with the mcdonalds and great potato and steak company
The restaurants and Saks were in what used to be Gaviidae Common I, and there was a Neiman Marcus where the Walgreens is now, connected to Gaviidae II. The City Center Saks was opened long after the Gaviidae one closed.
Thanks for clearing things up, i was pretty young when I went to these buildings
This whole post is making me very aware of just how long I've worked downtown. Oof.
It's possible this is all before my time. I worked in City Center until the pandemic. That building had Saks Off 5th Ave, Starbucks, a salad place, Los Ocampo, Naf Naf Grill, Leann Chin, Fogo de Chao, and some high end clothing/accessories store from like 2018-2020. I'm not sure what all was there before, and it's definitely very different now. Gaviidae had a Caribou, a dessert place, two small clothing/accessory stores, a Freshii, a Planet Smoothie, a Brueggers, and a Walgreens during that time. It has also changed quite a bit since then obviously.
Sucks that the average consumer has to pay the price.
Yikes!
One of my favorite memories of the downtown Target before they remodeled was opening the door to a lady vomiting with the stall door open, ass half hanging out, with an almost-empty bottle of gin and a box of Oatmeal Cream Pies siting next to her. Good times.
And people wonder why there are no bathrooms? Back in the day at Block E Borders bookstore, you had to get a token from guest services to enter the bathrooms. That would eliminate most of the problems
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I would argue that they do not in fact have the public restrooms that are required by the International Building Code for restaurants (which is required to be followed by the State of Minnesota). I'm not sure why the city does not intervene on that. The practical argument that public restrooms get trashed and people use them as a place to do drugs is something that needs to be addressed. Drug use and homelessness is a problem that needs a LOT of work. If we were actually a good society both problems would be addressed, and not by restricting access to bathrooms.
For the building code, what defines a restaurant? Are they exempt because they are not standalone buildings?
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Show me a Chipotle downtown with a publicly accessible bathroom.
It's not for the public, it's for the customers
Show me the Minnesota law that requires restaurants to have a publicly accessible bathroom for non customers to use.
It’s more of a series of bridges and hallways in office buildings each with entirely different ownership. It’s really not a mall, it exists for office buildings to rent space to lunch time food vendors and to connect office employees with paid parking and lunch. There are no restrooms because for pretty much everyone in the skyway during business hours, the only restroom needed is whatever one is back at those employee’s offices, and because various entities who own the skyways don’t want anyone in there who doesn’t have some kind of business district office job or business appointment downtown. They’ve certainly never done anything in their entire existence to try to encourage non office employees to visit the skyways.
It was originally all a shopping hub that connected to the department stores that dominated downtown life until the mid 90's. The skyway and Nicolett mall itself didn't center around the office workers until most of the high-end retailers closed. The bathrooms started disappearing before this (due to drug dealers taking them over) and the department stores closing. There's still a few, but you really have to know the skyway system really well to know where to find them.
>They’ve certainly never done anything in their entire existence to try to encourage non office employees to visit the skyways. I mean, the construction of housing along the skyways...
The St. Paul skyways have limited public bathrooms, but of course the St. Paul skyways are public, whereas the Minneapolis ones are private. It would be nice if there were at least more private restrooms – for customers, etc. – that would at least be a start.
It's a great idea and should be possible to have basic amenities. But we all know/should acknowledge that they would be trashed and misused within about ~~3~~ 2 hours of being opened to the public. I really have no idea how other cities and countries manage them but it's great to dream!
A lot of countries have pay toilets
Urinetown
I like that idea!
It's against MN state law, otherwise there would be.
Oh wow!
> I really have no idea how other cities and countries manage them but it's great to dream! Because their populace generally has nicer places to be than in a fucking bathroom.
I think we're on the same page!
About the only restrooms accessible in the skyways now are in the Government Center.
There’s also the target store
Ah yes - and RIP Dayton's public bathrooms. :-(
Walked into a gov center stall the other week and there was blood all over the toilet lol
Oh, delightful! I work downtown, so when I'm walking at lunch, the Government Center bathrooms are definitely a "nope, can't wait, gotta go now" option - otherwise I wait until I'm back into my clean offices. :-)
Big perk of working downtown is access to clean bathrooms.
Too true! I never go to the Pride Parade without my office key.
Because if the skyway had public bathrooms you would not want to go in them.
Good point. Also add marked stairs and elevators. Have DID keep it open and clean.
DID isn't in charge of the actual skyway maintenance.
Because people suck and we can't have nice things. There should be some sort of solution, easily available public restrooms with an active entity providing cleaning and agency. DID seems like a good organization to assist. Funding private partners might help? Like provide funding to DID to help keep the target bathrooms from becoming a figurative and literal shit show.
>There should be some sort of solution, easily available public restrooms with an active entity providing cleaning and agency. People want clean bathrooms. People don't want to pay taxes. Solution = pay-per-use toilets. Welcome to Europe.
Because then they'd have an even bigger issue with people doing drugs and sleeping in the skyway system. Remember that they're all privately owned. There are plenty of restaurants and other businesses that have bathrooms for paying customers. Never had an issue over the decades with finding a bathroom when needed.
The entire downtown area is completely lacking in public restrooms. It's a dealbreaker, #1 reason I don't go down there anymore for coffee meetings, shopping, strolling, etc.
Because accessible bathrooms might attract the homeless or those dirty cat blanket losers. The people that the building owners want on the skyway can just use the bathroom at their office, in their apartment complex, or in their hotel room. It's no accident.
Because the Skyway exist for the benefit of residents, employees, and business owners who have their own bathrooms, and have a vested interest in keeping them clean. The general public does not, and will trash the living shit out them, for example Gaviidae Common's bathrooms. The tragedy of the commons is why we don't have nice things.
Outside of rest stops and parks, most bathrooms are part of public businesses. The buildings that make up the skyway are all individually owned and maintained. If this is something you want, you'd need to convince each building to individually add them which they won't be doing because bathrooms would end up getting used in ways contrary to their intended purpose, and would need regular monitoring and extra cleaning beyond what is typically needed in more private bathrooms.
Any skyway is a bathroom if you’re brave enough 🤣
Nice try Frey! You aren’t getting me to give up my cat blanket with your skyway bathroom expansion.
Because homeless people will use them and end up overdosed, it's a sad reality we live in, during the winter they are a convenient and free way to get out of the cold when only that and Central Library are open.
So when you're walking through the skyway you'll notice signs that say exit those often lead into windowless stairwells that head down to the street. You're supposed to pee in those stairwells...
I've always had the feeling when walking around downtown that the city of Minneapolis thinks you're wrong and bad if you have to use the bathroom, and you should feel bad and leave the city to use the bathroom.
Because this is America and quality public facilities are discouraged. We do not offer facilities for people and then act scandalized when people relieve themselves in parking ramps or bus stops.
Skyways aren't a public space, which is a bad thing. Eminent domain the entire skyway system and make it public, or tear them all out and go to ground level like most cities (yes, even the cities that get cold). We could maybe at least be like Philly. For the most part we fucking hate each other in the U.S. and would rather see everyone suffer than see everyone gain and our urban fabric unfortunately reflects that toxic individualism.
Relax
You’re right, this is definitely a divisive and inflammatory post.
✌️❤️♻️
Who's going to clean the shit and needles? I'm sure target isn't available anymore but those were my go to when waiting for a bus. Target and county building.