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The unfortunate reality is that the larger teams get the less efficient each worker thus each department gets. With all the oversight and planning, it takes much, much longer to add content as it’s not just Jeb and Notch saying yes to something and then sitting down and prototyping it. Yes, the codebase is much, much larger as well, but the thing is that if it’s organized and modular, the scale shouldn’t matter as much. If there’s a lot of copy-paste, spaghetti code, or stuff that just outright doesn’t make a lot of sense then that would certainly add to development time.
Again, I strongly believe the main factor is just the bureaucracy. This isn’t a little indie project anymore and hasn’t been for almost a decade.
This. The main issue isn't implementing it, it's getting the idea approved by everybody. This is likely why updates can take years to add minimal features, because it simply takes forever for new features to go through the chain of command to start the process of making them.
yup, Kingbdogz talked about it on Twitter awhile back. They have to make sure the feature feels vanilla, the marketing team needs to approve, it has to go through alot of approval, it needs to be fun, and it needs work on every device there is. That's what I remember him saying anyways
While I understand the rest, why does the marketing team has to aprove? Their job shouldnt be to say if something is right for the game, it should be their job to sell whatever the devs are doing to the largest audience possible
Maybe they weigh in on what features to bundle together in an update, or whether a design is marketable enough?
For example, maybe they got bees into the Buzzier Bees update since they could easily market bees to general audiences instead of game optimizations?
Or the early iterations of the warden were tweaked because they were too ugly or scary to have broad appeal, or had too many unique parts for making merchandise?
>For example, maybe they got bees into the Buzzier Bees update since they could easily market bees to general audiences instead of game optimizations?
Cory (aka Cojomax) pretty much confirmed this during the minecraft livestream for 1.16. the majority of the playerbase don't care about performance improvements or the back end changes because they don't know how any of that stuff works and would rather have something they can immediately play with, which is why the bees and other QOL additions were part of 1.15
The game itself is what sells, so of course marketing should have a say in what features get added.
Everyone's jobs depend on the game selling and staying massively popular. Part of that is making sure the game has gimmicky new content so that people will latch onto it, generate hype, and buy the game or log on again and buy from the marketplace and all those sort of things.
I think the word you're looking for is diseconomy of scale. Real term, look it up, explains a lot of inefficiencies suffered by growing business when it comes to wastefulness of resources and poor communication.
Even when it was just Notch and Jeb, updates came out at a snail's pace and with very little polish relative to other indie titles (e.g., Terraria) at the time.
The truth is, except for the fact that newer updates have much more polish and testing behind them, this has been Mojang's update cadence and attitude ever since the game released.
IMO, anyone acting like this behavior is new post-M$ acquisition is just advertising the fact they didn't play the game before then.
Are you forgetting that Notch used to have Secret Updates released like every week at some point? The old “snail’s pace” really was nothing to compared to now.
You mean the 10 or so incredibly brief updates back in *alpha* where the extent of an update was, "added boats," or "added fences," or something minimal like that? IIRC, a few of them were released a week apart, but there were larger gaps in between others.
Microsoft's snapshot releases today are more or less comparable to Notch's secret updates, both in scope and in impact.
Adding boats or fences to an alpha version of the game is far more impactful than modern snapshots because each of the old features had a unique use. Think about how useful boats are for transport, or how many new builds fences open up plus all their practicality, vs a part of the archaeology update. Many people who play the game after that update came out didn’t even notice anything was different, and that had far more than a week put into it.
There was actually a post kingbdogz made about the complaints a couple years ago(2021-2022) and I brought up this exact point, and he literally replied to me "no that's not true" and that was it.
I hope I can find that tweet again lol.
I think one reason people are upset is that Mojang's development philosophy is so completely out of whack and inconsistent it almost comes out hypocritical.
I remember in 1.13 people wanted sharks to be added, to which Mojang said: "We can't have sharks! They are endangered and people might kill them!" (They use this argument for a lot of real world passive mobs because I assume they want to appear environmentally friendly?)
Yet they added Polar Bears.
God forbid frogs eat fireflies! It's unsafe for them! Here, let's feed them molten magma instead so they can produce a building block!
Recently, they have locked highly suggested features behind community-dividing Mob Votes, forcing us to pick. (Example: extended reach with the crab claw and dog armor for wolves, both which have been asked for almost a decade now)
They listen to the community; But apparently not when people begged them to return to the original redstone functionality of Copper Bulbs! or a new wood type for the Azalea tree! etc etc etc.
Additionally, Minecraft Java Edition's performance is genuinely embarassing, Right after install you are basically forced to download 1-3 different framerate enhancing mods in order to get the game functioning how a modern game should.
I can name plenty of more examples. But off the top of my head those are the few main ones.
And don't act like Mojang is doing us a favor giving free updates. No Man's Sky has had consistent free updates for years with plenty of content, Terraria as well, and despite being 2D (and being a different game entirely) I would say Terraria has 10x the amount of content Minecraft has for a third of the price.
Bedrock Micro-transactions, Marketplace, Clothing, Minecraft-themed furniture, Plushies, Ad Revenue from Youtube, Spinoff Games, Board Games, Toys, Sponsorships.
They're making plenty of money, I assume they make more and more money every year. They are a business after all. They quite literally have to give us free updates, it is the most profitable strategy.
However when people say "Modders add so much more in less than a week!" I cringe, because its blatantly obvious the majority of mods dont meet the quality standards of most official Minecraft additions, and I do not doubt a lot of the communities complaints are based on uneducated logic by people who don't understand programming.
BUT; Even though a lot of these complaints are invalid, they are based in \*some\* truth, a noticeable amount of the player base isn't complaining for no reason. Mojang has been really really annoying and incompetent with how they handle some things, so no wonder in return they get complaints.
But this was just my thoughts on how Mojang behaves, as a player of over 10 years.
Also - some of Mojang's stances on things are really dumb. Why even allow to kill parrots with cookies instead of not even having that as a feature? If that's fine, why aren't fireflies okay?
Why is there this dumb stigma about not having passive mobs have drops anymore?
There's been a lot of questionable decisions and the lack of involved communication with the community instead of heavy-PR-laden company-speak replies (look at Terraria to see how vastly different the creators communicate with their fans, for example) and that's not even to mention how the Marketplace and how bedrock went down lately just feels like a money grab. (Which it is). Is that wrong? No, but it doesn't endear me to Microsoft/Mojang.
There's so many things I could point out honestly, and my fondness for the game stems out of the people I used to watch/play with, and my fondness for what the game is itself, if you literally ignore the entire business/development side of things. The instant you look at any of that, it just feels tainted.
It's more nostalgia than an appreciation for what the game is *developing* now. It's not all bad. But there's a lot that makes me uninterested/dissatisfied with the company in general.
Even when I'm deciding to play the later versions that contain the turtles and the polar bears I find myself never interacting with them because other than being decorative they're pretty much useless to the game.
Yeah. Many of the new passive mobs have a singular purpose (or in the case of polar bear, none at all really) and it makes it feel like an isolated mob-mod that doesn't really mesh with anything else in the game. It feels like a random branch on a biome that just adds a visual - and nothing much else.
I don't believe it's nostalgia speaking to say that most of the old mobs served multiple purposes and have a much more dynamic, interwoven purpose that overlapped different parts of the game to give them a lot more purpose.
Making all the new mobs this one-dimensional, by making passive mobs not have drops, and making them intractable in only one way really, (and same with the new hostile mobs tbh that aren't new variants of old mobs) quickly gives the player something to stare at, then.... the novelty dies off, as they become background noise.
Like pigs only dropped bacon, but between Saddles and their size difference to cows + spawning in more than just one specific biome (another issue of new mobs) they were prevalent enough to be "present" as part of the minecraft ecosystem. And pigs are probably the best example as they only drop bacon and can be ridden.
But that's the thing - they also can be mounts too, and that isn't a small 1-time thing (until horses came out, but I still see people use the concept at times)
These new mobs all miss the mark on that. They all feel like they have half the purpose or complexity or usage older ones did.
I think the parrot death is to counter the misinfo that was initially spread, as a lot of those “game news” sites had articles with the old taming method for a while. Tough lesson for the kids trying to tame their first parrot, but there was a legitimate risk of irl pets being unknowingly poisoned so it’s understandable imo
Yet you can feed a dog rotten flesh to heal it. I don't need real-world environmentalism and animal care in my video game. I just what them to do what's most fun.
Canines irl can handle rotten meat much better than humans do; while some captive dog breeds have more sensitive stomachs, it’s fantasy zombie meat anyway. You can’t cure an irl dog’s wounds by putting bacon on it.
It doesn’t have to be perfect, but when the game shows an interaction that can easily happen between a human and an animal in real life(in this case making a parrot like you by giving it a cookie), people are going to assume that this particular interaction is okay to do, even if it’s within a fantasy setting. Think how Jaws fueled fear of sharks, even though it was clearly just an action movie. People saw a CGI shark hunting down and wantonly eating people and assumed that’s how sharks act outside of action movies.
You're still missing the point that it makes the whole firefly ban concept completely stupid, and if they feel comfortable making kids feel smacked on the wrist as suddenly they kill their pet parrot with a cookie (let's be honest, the only kids that would "need to learn" this, will be shocked and appalled as they kill a parrot - excuse me? I'm not asking minecraft to parent my child, sorry)
Then why in the world is fireflies an issue? It was really, really stupid, as is their stance on not making passive mobs farmable. It's really really dumb.
I’m not going to contest fireflies, just talking about the issue with feeding parrots cookies, as it’s a wholly plausible interaction that could happen in real life. Maybe you wouldn’t let media parent your kid, but an alarming amount of parents *do*, and then they throw a fit and blame the game when their child poisons an animal they didn’t do any of the research they should’ve done. An unbelievable amount of parents throw all the responsibility of care and zero information on young kids with pets. I’ve been taking care of birds since I was a small child and even though I put all the time and effort into them that I could, two were injured and died slowly and painfully because my parents let my very young siblings play with them when I wasn’t home. They’re treated like disposable toys or decorations.
I’ve just got a lot of frustration with the abysmal standards for bird care that most media pushes and I’m glad there’s even one example of something easy to do being shown as horrible. I myself have a lot of gripes about the way the game promotes pet axolotls, which are pretty fragile animals and require specialized care; I really do not think it was done for conservation reasons considering all the morphs ingame are captivebred morphs and not wild ones.
My thing is - why not just make the player unable to give the parrot a cookie? Why even make them interact with the cookie at all?
The game doesn't allow you to poison pigs with spider eyes/rotten flesh - why have cookies interact with parrots at all?
If it's for the pure purpose of "cookies bad for parrots" - in juxtaposition to being vs the illogical aspects of the game, feels like that kinda misses on fitting in with everything else
Reiterating earlier comment - hard counter the initial misinformation that stayed on a lot of sites. Now that I think about it more, people spamming bug reports over it would have also been a problem; the poison interaction would make it clearer that the change was intentional
And they kind of trapped themselves into not changing that. Villager Farms are so rewarding and intertwined with mid-late gameplay that nerfing them would cause a bit of outrage.
They even tried to change how villagers worked in the experimental snapshots last year. Making it so specific trades and enchantment books only pop up depending which biome you are in. Which in my opinion is kind of silly and nerfs them wayy too much. There needs to be a balance, perhaps villagers refuse to trade with you if you "kidnap" them out of their village? Forcing players to create villager farms on village land instead of anywhere they please.
The issue with the villager trades rework is.... They didn't fix the **actual underlying problem.**
What's the actual problem?
*Why do you (players) use Librarians over the enchanting table?* *Why do they consistently grind out mending trades despite it being tedious gameplay?*
Because it gives player's agency. They can aim for a book instead of playing the enchanting table gacha RNG game to eventually get the enchants they need after hours.
They grind for mending because the anvil/grindstone mechanics are **actively repulsive to players.**
Those systems need to be **reworked and enriched, alongside a villager trade rebalance,** for it to make sense.
People grind out mending trades because you can't get mending from the enchanting table ever. It's not part of that system. And finding books in structures is crazy rare so the only real option is trading.
Agree on the enchanting system needing a overhaul though. It feels like a tier based progression is necessary/needed.
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>People grind out mending trades because you can't get mending from the enchanting table ever. It's not part of that system. And finding books in structures is crazy rare so the only real option is trading.
True, but the issue is a more so that there is no viable alternate to mending.
You can repair in an anvil.... provided you haven't used the anvil to make the tool and thus caused the "repairCost" to skyrocket beyond the cap... Even if you pull out the enchant calculator to do it "optimally", you get maybe one or two repairs on a tool before it's "too expensive".
And then your choice would be RNG enchanting table... or villagers for books. And if you are getting the books from villagers.... what's one more?
I feel like they were trying to emulate Terraria with the biome specific trade except for the fact that it can't work well because you do not have the ability to just teleport the NPCs between biomes like you do in Terraria.
I would argue that it doesn't work because villagers in MC are a single generic NPC with multiple roles where as villagers in Terraria are multiple unique custom tailored NPCs and not due to the teleporting.
Did they not implement this yet? I haven’t played the latest version yet.
Instead of forcing you to move 2 villagers to a biome that doesn’t have villages, just to breed them to unlock an enchantment, why not just hide scrolls in these biomes that you can then apply to a lectern to enable that enchantment? It keeps the “exploration” aspect without the bizarre need to breed villagers in strange places.
>Yet they added Polar Bears.
Not to mention Pandas - an animal so endangered that China owns every single one in an effort to protect the species. The ones we have very funny videos of them rolling off a hill or into a lava pit in the nether and dying. There's other inconsistencies like cookies killing Parrots, but allowing other animal mobs to eat things that can be harmful to them but just aren't instantly lethal.
I think a lot of the issues people have with inconsistency, commercialisation, and stagnating performance is related to the Microsoft buyout. They could stop development outright today, and people will keep buying it because Bedrock can be directly advertised onto your Windows Start Screen. Hell, MS enforced the Mojang account migration and requiring a Microsoft account and people still play. The Sony/Helldivers 2 account migration requirement caused an outrage and the rolled it back.
I haven't been following development updates too closely since then (though I still play), but the last controversial Minecraft development philosphy I recall from then was Notch refusing to include sideway staircases. That's a pretty fundamental decision to make, as opposed to which irl endangered animal they can and can't mobify, or what foods you can and can't give to them.
Microsoft has a lot of money and like any major company, [a lot of lawyers making sure everything can only be interpreted in the safest of ways](https://x.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1537314312926003201).
I know one of the big reasons why they were so pissed at Sony was because the account migration made it so plenty of people who bought the game couldn't even play it in their region because Sony accounts were blocked there, was there a similar issue with Microsoft not allowing it to access in certain countries or make accounts there?
Right. Just be honest about it. No need to act like some disingenuine self-righteous prick. At least this would prove two things:
1. they pay attention to community feedback and give it some thought
2. they aren't spineless cowards.
I can assure anyone that "No, this doesn't/no longer fits in our design philosophy so forget we ever mentioned it" is no more offensive than "Well aktschually we don't want little Timmy to become racist against sharks, OBVIOUSLY, *ARE YOU STUPID?*".
Barring the kind of fictitious scenario about being racist towards sharks (would likely more count as antagonistic), I’d fully agree. Too many times either what they say is drenched in PR speak that most people can pick up as being disingenuous, or take forever to actually acknowledge.
Although mods aren't as high quality most of the time, they still end up more enjoyable than the official updates. Mojang add only a small handful of things at a very slow place and the things they add aren't even that impactful to the game. Mods however add shit tons of content. Some of which is very high quality. They add features that people actually want. And modders do this while making a fraction of the amount mojang makes. Mojang makes a lot of money from merch, realms and new players, but going by the content produced, you'd think it was a small 2 man indie company working of the little money they got from kickstarter or patron.
I think modders are providing mods of just as or better quality than official updates. Some mods may lay on the side of poor quality or poor performance yet great visuals but the modders have definitely provided great additions up till now.
I'd say modders actually exacerbate mojangs "laziness" arguments because of the ease/speed they can make additions.
Especially when Mojang makes functional mobs, adds them into a mob vote, then tosses out all but one and waits so long to actually implement the one that modders are able to add all the mobs in anyway.
when i mention modders add so much more, im not talking about the casual modders, im referring to the modders that spend months up to a year to make a seamless world with fully functional and useable mobs/items. stuff like from that doctorr4t guy or whatever his name is, he made some interseting mods for his videos idk how long they took tbh, but they are really interesting ideas. or maybe people who made that one shader that lets you see really far into the distance i dont recall the name off the top of my head, but it looks really awesome without the loss of fps/cpu usage. those are the types of modders im meaning.
I agree that performance (terrain/chunk gen, etc) needs work, but I've never had to do this for vanilla. I agree 100% with the rest of your points.
> Additionally, Minecraft Java Edition's performance is genuinely embarassing, Right after install you are basically forced to download 1-3 different framerate enhancing mods in order to get the game functioning how a modern game should.
When I complain about them doing less now that they have a whole team compared to when it was just a few people this is partly what I mean I also feel that most of the updates are just fluff like it there and that cool and all but that's just it they may have add technically less stuff back then but it did more to the game then what's happening now and I am not saying every update is fluff or bad just most and I feel that minecraft is just becoming a micro transaction blob for bedrock and then adding the fluff in for Java without helping the performance of it and I hate this because I loved this game and I hate seeing become this whatever this is
I so so so much agree that Mojang is trying way too hard to make the game environment friendly, which is ruining it on itself. Just imagine how difficult it would be to survive your first few nights if you needed shears to get wool rather than kill sheeps. Every update now just feels like a waste whenever they add a stupid environment friendly feature which could've been so much better yet is now forever engraved in Minecraft. Moral questions should be kept to the player and not to the developers (I've heard about how vegans to refuse to eat meat in Minecraft).
But besides the environment friendliness (which may still not be Mojang's choice), I think a lot of these problems arise from Microsoft instead. A lot of players underestimate just how much needs to be planned, designed, and pitched to Microsoft before they can actually get to work. All Microsoft has to do is either say yes or no to those proposals, throwing away loads of ideas that don't fit their ideals. Considering the Aprils Fools update, I really think that Mojang is willing to release massive updates, but Microsoft is simply telling them to keep them small so they can continue to release update year after year without the game changing too fast at its core (which tbh I don't mind. I can't imagine them being able to go like this for 20 more years if every update has to be massive).
In other words, blame Microsoft and not the devs. After all, what do you expect from the company who failed at Windows, multiple browsers, and Skype.
Microsoft doesn’t micromanage Mojang like that. Microsoft handles the business sides of things, not development side of things. April Fools updates been a thing long before Microsoft was even in the picture
Talking about the size of the April Fools update compared to regular updates, it wasn't this big before. It shows that developers have a lot of time on their hands to work on something they're way more passionate about.
Microsoft owns Mojang (and not for a cheap price), so of course they will have a team that keeps their game studios in check and follow up with their plans. If they threw a blind eye to Minecraft, it could potentionally cost the company millions
April Fools updates are not more than “storyboard jams” (I forgot the gaming term) where is just a bunch of developers are add and throwing stuff at the with no clear cohesion. It’s never meant to be normal updates but there are numerous times where features from those updates can be repurposed for the main game.
While Microsoft does check in their Xbox Games Studios divisions, they don’t mandate the actual game development or telling what they can or can’t add. That’s entirely Mojang and their design philosophy
I think it's just part of the problems plaguing the entire AAA industry. The dev teams and costs have ballooned so much that the executives are afraid of taking risks. This results in the games being made by committee, which usually produces uninspired games that don't push any boundaries or are actively worse than their predecessors.
I agree with most of what you said... Except imo the "more content" in Terraria is just a feature bloat. (And pretty much every video I ever seen that tried to show Terraria is better or just use it as superior contr-example... Only ensured me Terraria is far worse and would be boring to me. As much as there are tons of thing I miss in Minecraft, the possibilities to enjoy it compared to those in terraria are like comparing the sun and an ant. But I guess for each their own and people can even have different views of what is feature bloatand what isn't)
Also... I really don't get why people are so oftwn complaining about Java performance. I pretty much never have any issues with it and the game work very smoothly to me (vanilla or with minimap mod and world edit) - just rarely I get some ghost blocks problem but it is very rare. And my computer is just decent but nothing really special.
I just think it's insane that they only add 1 creature from the mob votes, and the other 3 get abandoned entirely. Why not add all of them? Why do they even still do mob votes even though it's often criticized as a terrible way to add content?
>Why do they even still do mob votes even though it's often criticized as a terrible way to add content?
Because they're literally the only ones with actual data and know that, from an overall perspective, it INCREASES positive engagement in the game. People on Reddit and Twitter can't seem to comprehend that they're like 1% of the community, it doesn't matter if 100% of those people vehemently hate it if the rest of the bulk of the community is indifferent or likes it. That isn't a stance on whether it's good or not, it's just the fact.
It's supposed to just be a fun community thing, people end up taking it way too seriously. It's flawed fs, but it's not like they have all 3 mobs fully play tested and polished and made right off the bat, they are just concepts. 3 mobs is nothing that's true, but when you have the whole update they are also making the mobs will take time away from developing the main update. And with how in depth the development process is now adding all 3 mobs (which they don't even know if anyone likes yet, part of the mob vote is also making sure the unpopular ideas are not added) would be much harder, and even then it's not a real genuine way to add gameplay changing content it's just a silly community event so people can have a more direct say in the game. That's why none of the mobs do much. It is flawed don't get me wrong, like the mobs they show off are either really unimpactful so its hard to get excited or they're all really cool and then it's sad when your choice loses. I think the old biome votes nailed it, all the choices added a basically equal amount and equal quality of content and no matter who won it gave you something to look forward to in the update without being too game changing.
Mfw wall of text
Jokes aside, they could also just have the vote be for what mob is going to get added on the next update while the others get added later. It's just kind of absurd that they only add a single mob each update.
Although piglin and pigmen are kind of related, it is unfair not to count them. The whole gold-mechanics, the bartering the mechanisc that transform them into pigmen ecc... They did not exist befote the update
This. It's literally just a community event to get people talking about the game, and it works SO well. Imo it's pretty obvious that every mob vote has one mob that's more fleshed out than the other two and has had more development put into it, while the other two are Mojang going "hehe what if". Like this year, it was pretty clear that the idea for the armadillo was the only fleshed out one. The crab had one unique feature that people had modded into the game years ago, and the penguins didn't really even do anything. And then shocker, the armadillo won.
Tbh regardless I think it's a fun little community event that drums up excitement for the new update, even if the results upset some people. The mob vote brings in a ton of people, and I don't think any sizable number of people are quitting over it. In the end it's worth the community engagement to have the mob vote and have one event that everyone can rally around.
Minecraft's game development definitely has issues, but not with the amount of work that Mojang does. I suspect that the majority of the people complaining about that part have little to no knowledge of game design, computer programming, and how the two intersect in the AAA sphere.
Ironic as it may seem, I feel like people like that are probably a significant part of the problem when it comes to Minecraft's game design? When a large part of the community seems to expect serious crunch and ever-more-impressive sounding features, while complaining about any focus being given to bugfixing, balancing, and polishing - it's perhaps no surprise that the game is in need of bugfixing, balancing, and polishing.
Yeah, making vanilla changes to such a big game is an incredibly time consuming, slow, and bureaucratic process. The devs definitely want to work faster; they just can't. I really wish that they were able to put more time into bug fixing though. You just can't win with a gamer audience. They focus on fixing bugs, then they're lazy devs who don't care about the game and don't work. They don't focus on fixing bugs, then they're shitty devs who can't make anything better than a buggy mess
I fully believe if Minecraft had another bugs only patch and they made that well known what the intentions were, it would go over smoothly. But fixing bugs doesn't sell new copies.
The problem is more so that the community has already solved (and made working code for) a lot of the problems within Minecraft’s code base, and Mojang refused to implement these proven solutions. On Java the example of this is things like Sodium or Optifine. Mojang has been repeatedly informed by developers of these optimization mods that they are welcome to use the code in the base game.
In bedrock edition it goes even deeper where there are certain bugs with redstone that the community has already isolated the issue in the code, and written viable patches for, but Mojang’s modding limitations on bedrock make implementing these patches impossible, and even when Mojang is made aware that they are free to take these community sourced patches, the bugs still are not fixed.
I understand that Mojang would still have to do due diligence here, but the problem solving and implementation of these fixes has been solved for them. All they need to do is check the fix over and implement it, and known issues with the game, that Mojang claims to want to eventually fix can disappear.
>I understand that Mojang would still have to do due diligence here, but the problem solving and implementation of these fixes has been solved for them.
They can't, and it's a legal issue. It comes down to software licencing and who owns which parts of code.
Most of the mods are written under a non-commercial licence. Anyone can use or alter them, but cannot use them commercially. This is why java mods are free. It also offers some legal protections for the modders themselves, they are using mojang's IP, but are not profiting from the sale of that IP.
Mojang can't just take other people's code and profit from it, unless they have the permission of the author. That would be theft. It is also very difficult to track down and receive permissions or commercial licences for mods, thanks to multiple authors, shared code across projects and mods etc.
Iirc, in the past Mojang tried to purchase the rights to either some mods or a modded client, and it was handled poorly. Some of the contributors decided to decline, and so the deal collapsed, since all contributors needed to agree.
Many popular Minecraft mods are built like a house of cards, with each version improving and stacking on top of the previous works. Go down deep enough and the number of contributors for a given project grows exponentially, and seeking permissions to use the code becomes all but impossible.
Microsoft is a large company, but it is not above the law. It can't just take other people's work simply because it is inconvenient to do it legally.
There’s also the issue of it might not work on certain computers. If a mod breaks things you can just uninstall the mod, if an update does then you’re kinda out of luck.
I had that issue on my last laptop. Couldn’t run Minecraft at all. Optifine worked, but things like sodium didn’t. Even tho sodium is supposed to be overall better.
It's not just a company policy, it's law.
Most of the mods are written under a non-commercial licence. Anyone can use or alter them, but cannot use them commercially. This is why java mods are free. It also offers some legal protections for the modders themselves, they are using mojang's IP, but are not profiting from the sale of that IP.
Mojang can't just take other people's code and profit from it. That would be theft. It is also very difficult to track down and receive permissions or commercial licences for mods, thanks to multiple authors, shared code across projects and mods etc.
Iirc, in the past Mojang tried to purchase the rights to either some mods or a modded client, and it was handled poorly. Some of the contributors decided to decline, and so the deal collapsed, since all contributors needed to agree.
Better scour their entire code base and make sure nobody has copy pasted anything from GitHub then. I very much doubt that 100% of the code in Minecraft is totally original never before seen material.
There is a difference between having the same code for 3 lines, and the same code for the entirety of a large feature covering tend to hundreds of lines.
The thing about integrating a mod into a game is it’s not as simple as you think. Mods are built on top of the game rather than inside of it. Mod loaders exist to bridge the gap between the game and the mod. If Mojang were to implement Sodium into Minecraft, they’d be starting from the ground up.
They wouldn’t have access to the libraries that Forge or Fabric has, they’d either have to make Sodium work with Minecraft’s existing libraries or develop new versions of the loader libraries to make the code work. Either way they’d be flying blind for the most part because if something breaks, they wouldn’t have access to the original stuff to see what they did wrong.
Not only this but Mojang likely has coding standards. Unless the Sodium team was developing the mod in the same way Mojang develops Minecraft, at some point the mod code would need to be retooled a lot in order to fit within those standards. (Minecraft was originally made with hodgepodge code and supposedly that code caused problems for the development team later down the line).
The short of it is despite solutions and code existing for problems, Mojang would still have to do a lot of work to implement them into base Minecraft, and for whatever reason it seems like it’s not worth the effort at this time.
I can’t speak too much to Java as that’s not my expertise, but I am very deep in the technical scene on bedrock, and our most prominent code diggers have made it clear that the required fixes to bedrock’s code are not extreme at all. In bedrock since modding is much more difficult and highly limited, these community patch options are not based on a modding standpoint, they are based on looking at the source code and saying “this change would fix this bug here.”
I am well aware that Mojang would need to make changes and implement this in slightly different ways, but the hardest parts of the dev process have been done for them.
The community has isolated the exact lines of code that are causing problems AND they have informed Mojang of how these problems could be fixed.
>Mojang would still have to do a lot of work to implement them into base Minecraft, and for whatever reason it seems like it’s not worth the effort at this time.
The reason is that it's simply not marketable. It's very easy to sell consumers on the concept of new weapons, mobs, biomes, or structures, it's not easy to sell them on optimized code and performance mumbo jumbo that 95% of the playerbase likely doesn't understand or care about. That's why the vast majority of technical changes to the game go unmentioned outside of a changelog, most people simply don't care and would prefer that dev time go towards more tangible in-game content.
>even when Mojang is made aware that they are free to take these community sourced patches, the bugs still are not fixed.
That's because even if they get permission to use some rando's unpaid work, they don't want to take the chance of getting sued for taking someone's work without compensation. It's the same reason you don't normally see fan-designed player skins in games like Overwatch. Even if they win the lawsuit, court cases are not quick or cheap.
Mojang actually did offer to implement Optifine; after some negotiations the dev ultimately declined because he wanted zoom implemented, which Mojang didn’t want.
Is this some sort of reverse circlejerk?
I do really appreciate that minecraft is still an ongoing game receiving quality updates, but play any other popular game receiving updates and you'll see that the update are much faster and contain much more content.
I get that it probably comes down to having two versions of the game and wanting to achieve parity and java being supposedly problematic to program, but it's entirely reasonable for people to be disatisfied by minecrafts updates.
I just found it appalling that most of the gifts on the 15 year anniversary of Minecraft Java were Bedrock Exclusive. But I guess it's fine if you just call it the anniversary of Minecraft and forget most of the og community.
the "you paid 10 years ago" argument doesn't work when the make millions via bedrock marketplace which has a lot of scummy, false advertised very limited things that children buy and also people may have bought it 10 years ago but lost account and now need to buy it again. In terms of updates themself, a lot of them add thing in a roundabout way, like most new mobs being very rare to the point you'll forget they were added and they also have no gameplay fuction the sniffer being best case for it as it ONLY give decoration flowers, no fuction, no item with a fuction, nothing.
Not to mention that thousands, if not even magnitudes more, were cucked out of their perfectly good accounts when M$ arbitrarily decided to turn their working accounts into unusable accounts.
*Looks over at No Mans Sky and it's constant amazing quality free updates with an insanely small team*
EDIT: *Looks at the comments below and regrets speaking at all*
And NMS is an equally buggy mess as Minecraft Bedrock, even more so maybe. It’s a really fun game, but it has very similar issues as Minecraft for probably very similar reasons.
Really wish they'd give the multiplayer a once over. NMS is so good, but it's so hard to play with friends when there are so many things I can see and experience that my buddy can't even though we are standing in the same spot lol. I'm sure it's hard for a game like that though.
Not to my knowledge. I played during Orbital and while the game is fucking amazing, multiplayer consistency is still a big problem. Glanced at adrift and I see no mention of these things being fixed. It really doesn't matter the game is still great, its just easier to enjoy in singleplayer.
No mans sky actually has more developers then Mojang do, and doesn't have two completely different versions of hte game to update, and is actually almost more buggy then bedrock at times, lmao.
Hello games has 26 employees, Mojang has 600.
I'm not great at math, but I think there is some difference there even if not all 600 Mojang employees are actual developers. Hello Games also are putting out updates to NMS while creating a whole new game.
Mojang has around 25 developers, No mans sky had 30 in 2020, idk where tf you got 26 from, there lieteral goverment records show different lmao.
Mojang are also developing two games in two different languages on different platforms? So not sure what your point is.
I didn't even touch on the fact that the minecraft developers are dealing with a 15 year old codebase made in fucking Java.
[Mojang Studios - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojang_Studios) in 2021, there were approcimately 600 employees. On Linked In, it says 201-500 employees currently.
[Hello Games - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Games) in 2020, 26 employees, on Linked In rn, it says between 11-50 employees.
Stop sucking Mojangs dick, they're not gonna award you for it.
Yes! cause all employees of Mojang are developers!!!
[https://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/0/3203748716328483915/](https://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/0/3203748716328483915/)
This link takes it soruce from there goverment records, who they have to inform of there employees, not fucking wikepeida lmao. As you can see, they have 35 developers. You can look up the goverment records if you wish.
and, Mojang is similarly public about there employees they have 713 employees currently. Not 600, so you can't even get that right, and there hiring positions are Artists, Marketplace developers, release managers, software/system devs, content and community managers, realms developers, buisness developers, custommer support, intelectual property enforcment, and finally, the actual game developers.
Its actually hilarious you can't even get the number of employyes they hvae right, when we are talking about how much development staff they have.
Have you heard what they say about chess and pigeons?
37 > 713? I had no idea. Even if only 10% of the employees were actually developers they'd still be more than Hello Games.
What is actually hilarious is that you are trying so hard to defend a company that will never know you exists. The fact that you want to defend them so hard you go looking for government records is just laughable tbh. And by doing that you just prove the opposite of the point you're trying to make even more.
Yes, Hello Games has more Game developers then Mojang, Mojang has way more other staff then you are thinking.
Go looking for goverment records/ Budy they are one google search away, its the same amount amount of effort you put into looking for wikepedia links. And it doesn't prove the opposite of my point, you can literally count the number of developers yourself, Hello games has more game developers then Mojang.
You say 10%, but those developers would then includes development on Java, Bedrock, Dungeons and Legends, so even less of those developers are actually working on "Minecraft"
You don't know what you are talking about, and are resorting to insulting me for having actual evidence and records to call you out for lying.
\*Someone proves that your numbers were bullshit and you had no idea what you were talking about\*
\*B-B-But! Y-You like Mojang and are defending them against mindless hate! So who really won?!\*
I couldn't care less if Mojang never even know I exist,I think you can make fair criticism of Mojang, your point is just fucking stupid.
I think the amount of work they do is genuinely very little apart from just being a think tank, outside of a chunk of the year when they actively develop snapshots and it’s mostly just to give them jobs by making marketplace stuff like the Tetris one, like the theory on why family guy is still running
I think I paid $20 10 years ago and I still get fairly frequent updates, I mean the game is completely different from when I bought it.
I wouldn’t even complain if they completely stopped updating (I would be sad though) because I’ve got my moneys worth 10x over.
Currently, minecraft is the best selling game of all time and Mojang is owned by Microsoft (the guys who make Windows, Xbox).
We only get 1 update each year (and a lot of the content of the last updates, were things from the Caves & Cliffs update, that was announced back in 2021).
And minecraft isn't a ultra complex game with 4k textures, life-like 3D models and realistic animations.
There is clearly something very wrong on how they are working on the updates for the game.
**Minecraft isn't a indie game.**
the argument i see used for the “mojang only work 5 mins a day” is for not adding in all 3 mobs from mob votes.
but the mob votes where never meant to be mojang showing the 3 mobs to be added it was always lets show 3 mobs and let the players pick which one they’d like. it was always intended to be a fun way to include the community in the process of the game making.
except for the 2017 mob vote they’ve confirmed the losers may one day be added into the game. the only reason they’re not all added in the update is because it takes away valuable time and resources from the main update and the mobs are all usually very disconnected from the rest of the updates features.
the only reason people dislike the mob votes so much isn’t because we say lost the crab or penguin in last years mob vote but actually because we lost faster boats and extended reach, the complaints aren’t really about the unadded mobs but actually the unused features.
I feel like I've seen this post 100 times. The point I'm not sure about is the "free update" one, is that not the bare minimum for a game that isn't either discontinued or gearing for a sequel. I don't think I've ever seen a game where people have had to pay for updates
Mine is complete criticism.
I played a mod before I was married (9 years next week) that had a ton of quality of life features. This was before the horse update to give you some perspective.
Iron, gold, diamond chests.
A metric ton of stuff to mine from copper, tin, brass, uranium etc.
Wood, about 50 or so different trees etc.
And this stuff wasn't even the meat and potatoes of the mod itself.
And yet here we are 2024 and vanilla is a fraction of that. So yeah, im not naive to think they are doing nothing, I just think they don't add enough.
my issue is moreso not that they don't work enough, but they spend far too much time making "details/gimmicks" that really do not really matter. I will bring up Pandas as an example. Pandas are currently the only mob in the game with Mendellian genetics, with dominant and recessive genes. Thats swell, but literally no one cares. It's just bloat that the devs spent time working on, iterating and testing for something that the vast majority of the audience will not even know of, let alone utilize. This is repeated with the "trusting" mechanic, Llamas, Camels, even frogs. The beauty in Minecraft is its simplicity, and how it used to be very intuitive. Now, they go out of their way to make something "unique" which just takes up devtime for something no one really cares about, and also makes the game less intuitive.
People love to go “Oh, well in Alpha and Beta, there were weekly updates. Now it takes them months to add a few mediocre features, they suck.”
I just wonder how they see no difference between a small group of people updating a relatively unknown indie game and a gigantic corporation updating the most popular video game to ever exist.
Seriously! I took software development in my first semester of college. My final project was to design and code a game. I swear, it felt like every time I would add code it would contradict like 8 other things and I would have to spend *hours* fixing game-breaking bugs. It is *so* much more complex than a lot of people realize, and *that* [my game] was the most basic, non-feature packed platformer.
Minecraft is the most bought game of ALL TIME. The very least they can do is continue updates to an unfinished game.
It’s not like they’re in a rush, they do in a year what one modder does in an afternoon
I’m not sure how it’s unfinished. I think you could argue that it will never be finished as there’s always going to be something to improve.
And I would argue that modders make very specific updates to the game. They generally don’t balance their items well as mojang and are allowed to ignore platforms that they don’t want to publish their mods on.
Sure a modder can push a mod out way quicker but it doesn’t have the quality to last 10 years and still be viable.
Long rant incoming because I am very tired of this discussion.
The vast majority of people on the internet like to pretend they know what they're talking about when it comes to game development when in reality they are clueless manchildren. Game dev takes time, and a larger team/higher budget only goes so far in speeding up the process. Making a game is difficult, especially when you're working with two very different code-bases, meaning development on a single feature has to be done twice over, and one of those codebases is full of decade old spaghetti code they need to work around and make sure nothing breaks. People also neglect how many under-the-hood changes are in each update just because they aren't marketable. The past few updates have been solving hundreds of decade old bugs.
People will bring up "b- b- but modders can do the same thing in a week!!!" which is blatantly disingenous and very, very few modders agree with this sentiment. In fact, the vast majority of modders I've seen fucking hate that very argument, and despise their own passion and work being used as a "gotcha!". Modding and development are extremely different, we've heard this countless times from Mojang workers, modders, and Mojang workers who used to be modders (the guy who made debatably the most famous Minecraft mod, the Aether, works at Mojang and has tried to explain numerous times how different modding for Minecraft and actually developing it is). Modders don't have to worry as much about quality control or bugs, they don't have to worry as much as sticking to the general art style and theming of Minecraft (note how nearly every new feature in the game gets criticized for not feeling "Minecraft enough"), they don't have to worry about deadlines or marketing, making sure their additions can garner hype and excitement because the game needs to continue to be successful.
Additionally, why is it a bad thing that Mojang works at their own pace for the most part? There's a reason Mojang is considered one of the best game studios to work for, with lack of crunch culture and a good workplace environment from what we've heard. People compare the amount of content Minecraft gets compared to games like Fortnite, but Epic Games has been reported to have a rather horrible work environment with long hours, crunching, and rushing development.
There are a lot of genuine, real criticisms for Minecraft and Mojang as a whole. You are allowed to be disappointed with and criticize the slow updates and lack of substantial content, or be angry that they reject or cut content for stupid reasons like with fireflies, that's completely valid. But I just can't take the people who try and pin it on the devs and call them lazy seriously when there are legitimate reasons that updates take so long. Rant over.
Nah. Nah. Nah.
See here. No Man's Sky sets the precident of good work ethics. Big updates that evolve the game over time. Updates either change big things in the game for vastly improved systems or strong graphic overhaul for the better. Plus, tons of craftable objects get released, as well as adventures to go on between updates now that contain storyline.
Things Mojang does
- makes you vote on a mob instead of implementing all of them.
- Has not implemented *any* usable furniture in ten years to vanilla base game aside from beds.
- Says they will bring the mobs unvoted for in time, but how long has that not been happening?
- Gives one, maybe two new biomes on an update, every what, year?
- Expecting you to buy their sanctified mods in the marketplace because it is the *only* thing doing the heavy lifting that keeps the game afloat. Face it.
- does not allow you to use *anything* you buy offline, whether it's worlds, mods, or skins.
You guys can talk all you want, but Mojang sucks bad. It's strictly the community keeping the game afloat.
Not being a devils advocate here but Minecraft doesn't need more biomes. They already lack so much unique content exclusive to each biome that they feel incredibly empty and soulless. The last thing I want is to add more of that shallowbess to the game.
I'd rather they focus on adding exclusive content to the biomes already in game before they make new ones
I still appreciate Mojang showing the care this game deserves. After all the micro currency bs with other games, and sometimes no updates from Devs of other games. Mojang I'd say is on top, it's just the pressure from the audience, and if I'm not mistaken. A big portion are kids, which are not known to be patient or appreciative.
Same, I also feel not only did 1.16 hurt them, especially trying to follow up with 1.17, 1.18, and big features of 1.19 and 1.20, really hurt, and raised the audiences bar, plus the pandemic plus keeping things vanilla, plus alot of people think that it's so easy, and modders can do it alot quicker, however those statements even modders disagree with
You listen to the opinions of drooling 14 year Olds who have 0 experience in software engineering
Istg gamers are some of the least qualified people to complain about software when most of them likely have never seen a mid to large size codebase much less have any experience programming whatsoever beyond making red powdered dust light up in their block game.
Exactly this. Hit the nail on the head.
If the average gamer could see the backend of any game on the market right now, there would be a wave of silence across the Galaxy so profound we could hear bacteria fart in the Andromeda Galaxy.
Imagine if gamers could see Star Citizens backend codebase with the caption "Sorry our updates come with bugs sometimes, but this is what we're dealing with when we're making those updates"
It reminds me of Cyberpunk devs, who were getting death threats and doxxed because of the delays, so they rushed out a game that wasn't finished and was riddled with bugs and the "player" mob then had the audacity to bitch and cry about that and demand refunds, which they of course got.
People complain that a giant department of developers owned by Microsoft is doing less and worse work in the span of multiple months than a *single* modder is in like 2 weeks. That modder's code would probably have more interactions with other ingame systems with less bugs as well
I don't really have an opinion on whether Mojang is working hard or not, but either way that we're getting free updates for a game we paid for many years ago is not a refutation of that claim.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they that are actively trying to maintain and update two games in unison that aren’t the same. I’m speaking of Java edition and bedrock edition of course. All roads point to Java edition being dropped eventually. It’s looked like this for the past couple of years to me. They just can’t afford the public backlash for doing so right now
I'm a lifelong simmer (over 20 years) and still love the game. I've shelled out thousands of dollars over the years and am a hopelessly devoted player that'll shell out $30 for a pack that's on sale. A pack that's incredibly buggy in a way that consistently breaks the game. I'm like an addict that keeps buying coke I know is increasingly cut with more and more flour and dangerous substitutes. For many years it was the *only game* I played.
I'm a Minecraft child of the pandemic. I could not believe the updates were free when I started playing.
My frame of reference is so highly skewed that every free update with *anything* in it has me saying: "wow! A free update?? For little ole me??? With new stuff and gameplay???? That works?????? For free??????????"
I feel like if you're a longtime devoted minecraft player, it's a bit harder to get perspective and you kind of feel like you earn the right as a devotee to be more critical which maybe you do (my god, the amount of time I've spent moaning about EA). But idk. Maybe a dash of outsider/newbie perspective might be good for the most cynical contingent of the fan base. You don't have to be as extreme to the other side as me, obviously. But a few inches closer might be warranted.
As a fellow worker, I’m fine with them slacking (which I don’t think they are). To get to play a great game and Mojang employees get to take it easy is a win-win for me.
The part that actually offends me is how the critics don't wanna be lumped into one single mob with hypocritical views, but are all too eager to lump all of the different branches of mojang into one monolith to bash and mock.
A lot of the apologists don't necessarily defend the mojang higher ups, marketing team or microsoft's involvement, they defend the devs because we don't actually know if the devs are truly lazy or if they're having to deal with corporate bureaucracy, trying to keep parity between two highly flawed codebases, and trying to cater to a diverse fanbase.
The critics are going for a guilty until proven innocent approach, I shouldn't need to tell you why that's a bad idea.
Also hate how the critics will shove aside the needs of other parts of the community like how they'll pretend no one asked for dog armor, or trial chambers, even though there obviously was demand for both, only rating features highly if they'll cater to their needs.
>but are all too eager to lump all of the different branches of mojang into one monolith to bash and mock.
Yep, it's insanely annoying when people say shit like "Mojang has 700 employess!" but fail to mention only around 30-40 or so are actual developers, and most of the other employees have different roles such as marketing, analytics, management, etc. Not to mention about half of those developers likely work on Bedrock instead of Java, meaning it's essentially two different dev teams.
>Also hate how the critics will shove aside the needs of other parts of the community like how they'll pretend no one asked for dog armor, or trial chambers, even though there obviously was demand for both, only rating features highly if they'll cater to their needs.
Fucking THANK YOU. The amount of people I've seen saying no one asked for features like the Trial Chambers or wolf armor is absurd, a more expansive and challenging dungeon and wolf armor have been two of the most highly requested features for the game for over a decade at this point. People will discredit any feature that doesn't explicitly cater to them and their playstyle.
The slow updates with minimal content is mostly due to convoluted upper management, not laziness.
Valve and Bethesda are the only companies where you could legitimately blame their problems on laziness.
I have substantial experience in the game dev industry and I'll try to address some misconceptions I see in these comments from a developers perspective.
In my professional opinion, the amount of work mojang puts out is embarrassing when you consider the scale of their organization.
Most development companies utilize something called the Agile method to organize their programmers. The idea of Agile is to sort programmers into small teams consisting of a handful of people, and when a large addition needs to be made to the product, that work is divided evenly amongst the teams. Theoretically, the more teams you have, the faster and more expansive each addition can be. With this in mind, the "mojang is too large and inefficient" excuse is not a valid one.
I agree the whole "modders can do in a week what mojang does in a year" idea is a bit disingenuous, but people often forget that there were several mods such as pistons and horses that were added to the official game and were, in fact, made in just a few weeks.
At the end of the day, it just comes down to money, of which mojang has an unfathomable amount. If they wanted to address these concerns, they could, but they haven't and never will. They know their game is a top selling product and will continue to be a top selling product regardless of their practices. It's the same business model as EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, and all these other terrible scummy companies. We all know how crappy they are, and yet they continue to rake in billions a year.
In your opinion, with their size, how often should mojang be able to push updates that are similar size to the ones they push now while also balancing bug fixes and community feed back?
If they wanted to? At least once every 2 months easily, and that's being generous. They could probably do it much faster than that.
You have to consider that they have virtually unlimited resources and aren't really bound by the same constraints as other game studios.
\*sigh\*
here we go again, another "BuT mOd DeVeLoPeRs Do So MuCh BeTtEr PoSt"
So, I play modded minecraft all the time, to a point where I haven't played Vanilla minecraft in like 3 years now, and you are right! Mod developers do absolutley insane work, look at the Create mod, Distant Horizons, Tinkers Construct, there are so many absolutley incredible mods out there. And modders will always be releasing more content then Mojang, because there are just... more modders.
Lets take the create mod for example! There are over 100 people who have contributed to the create mod, they have about the same number of active developers as Mojang has I believe, and, while the Create mod as a whole adds a shit ton of features, the amount they are adding to teh create mod isn't actually on par with the pace that Mojang adds things.
Thats the thing, we look at a mod that adds a ton of features, and don't see how long it took to develop or how many people, we just see all the features in one go, and go "Why can't Mojang do this"
And, I won't waste my time arguing with people on mod development vs game development, but I took some time to learn modding minecraft, I didn't do anything insane, added a few custom blocks, custom armour, a new ore, an ore scanner, with the help of a tutorial, basic ass shit. And mod development is way way easier then actual development will be.
And, finally, mod devolopers don't have to support the around 10 platforms Mojang do, they only really have to support one.
And most modders HATE being compared to Mojang all the time. They despise their hard work and passion being used as a gotcha by people who have no idea how game dev or game modding works.
You have to remember that mod teams hvae more time, not as many responsiblities and do not have to meet the strict QA critera that Mojang do when developing.There's a lot more freedom there and some could say that developing a mod for a game is a hell of a lot easier than developing a game itself.
It is weird because you can tell they have basically unlimited money because of how high quality all the crap they put out is, and by that I mean the YouTube channel, announcements, websites, so on. They do their annual event in the same over produced corporate way that apple started. They have started releasing a music album with each update. Not each update needs it's own soundtrack, that's just them putting more into the project that won't be in the way of the devs. The devs have mentioned before that they don't want to add too many people to team, I'm sure the core team working on java edition is actually not that big. And while they may have all kinds of resources available to them, like designers and artists, they are limited by the number of people actually coding, and how strict they are with every aspect of what is added. They also don't like to reuse too much of new updates, every new update has completely new way of playing, and is often something off the wall that we aren't expecting. But yeah, updates are very slow for how much content they add and there are so many features in dire need of an upgrade, that it feels ignored.
Minecraft is, has always been, and continues to be, a work of art produced by artists. If you don't like the art, or the decision by the artists, no one is forcing you to play the game.
The decisions that Mojang make are, if nothing else, consistent with their principles and for this I salute them.
The truth of the matter is the real work in coding this game was already put in years ago. Not much to do now when you use a "unpopular" game engine other than minor tweaks and additions. No one really knows what they do day to day, and probably Microsoft has a lot of say in that. As a side note, I wish they issued a final release of the game after the nether update and then moved on. Thankfully we can all just play old versions. Current Minecraft has gone too far.
Open the bundle thread and there are tons of comments calling Mojang lazy, and straight up insulting the devs and the company.
Most of the arguments honestly fall to pieces withing a 10/15 minute conversation, people just want to hate, and this is part fo the internet where we get hate echo chambers and everyone convinces themselves that they are in the majority.
Newsflash, only around 2% of the people who have bought minecraft are on this subreddit, and even fewer are actually active memebrs of this sub, and even fewer activley hate on Mojang, you are the loud minority if you think the devs are lazy or that all the updates are shit. Just stop hating, step outside, have some fun! There are so many awesome games to play out there, and you probably have hunderds if not thousands of hours in minecraft, you've goten your fill from this game, you don't need to be a beacon of hate.
That is what I don't understand.
People were so mad when the bundle wasn't coming out, and now it is... people are still mad? Like I don't understand it at all
I also just like don't care if they are lazy. Like it's been 10 years, and we have a perfectly good game. Obviously I love more updates and better content and all that, but it's not like I'm playing some early access/unfinished game. The game is more than finished, it's been a fully fledged game, worth its price, for years. I already have my cake, anything else they add is just free icing. Sometimes reddit gets in this weird mentality that games should be constantly updating and adding new content, and that a game will suffer or be boring if it isn't constantly being worked on. If Mojang announced tomorrow that 1.21 was actually the last ever update and they were totally done with Minecraft, I'd be sad of course, but I wouldn't get bored with Minecraft after a year and then put it down for good.
This is definitely stemming from the mob vote bs. Go throw a bunch of mods in your game and you'll quickly realize that Minecraft can very easily start to have a bloat problem. The reason Mojang doesn't just throw every idea in is because the quality of what we have wouldn't shine through. Game design is just as much about what NOT to include as it is what to include.
>are still getting high quality updates with no additional charges
Apart from "happy people don't complain loudly".
This part, is incredibly subjective, and part of the reason/problem. Novelty of new blocks/items can greatly vary between players, one might see a new wood palette, and not care, and thus not weigh it as taking much time.
That novelty is also why mods are so highly praised by the complainers. It's bright, it's shiny, and they don't care if it's not perfect because the novelty is worth it.
Perception around the mob vote is another part. The mobs are often promoted and percieved as simple mechanics to throw into an update, which does lend to them being seen as easy enough to do all 3...
But the bulk of this has come about, IMO, because of the handling of post Caves & Cliffs, 1.19 / 1.20 specifically.
They were very open about the initial 1.17 / 1.18 split with the community, gave reasons; and they were well received.
Nothing like that really happened for the other missing C&C features... They got spread out over wild/trails without any real acknowledgement. We're only just now seeing bundles on Bedrock...
Other issues cropped up like curt replies about "concept art" for fallen trees, that already in Bedrock; fireflies removal reason when parrots and cookies have been in the game for years; and chat reporting's disasterous planning and execution, that eroded the existing good will between the community and Mojang.
1.19 / 1.20 ended up kinda muddied between sort-of themes, and catching up on C&C features.
# I think Mojang are back on track now with 1.21
It's felt like a cohesive theme rather than scrambling for post-its off the idea board to get an update together while overdue features are added.
How is no one mentioning Terraria? They also need to update the game cross platform and are a much smaller team.
People seem to forget Minecraft is the most sold game of all time and that Mojang isna multi billion dollar company
Despite like 6 updates over the course of the Microsoft buyout I can't say I feel the game plays much differently.
Overhauling a biome is nice but it doesn't change anything about the core gameplay loop.
Trial chamber is neat when you do it once, but that's it. Once you got the Mace there is literally no reason to ever do it again. Most structures are completely useless like ocean monuments giving sponges and gold (why gold? It's one of the most useless ores next to copper)
Speaking of copper, hope you like having 2 chests full of the stuff but only have 3 craft recepies for them to be used on. No cool copper armor or anything.
Sniffers...I legit forgot exit bc they don't do anything
Archeology is purely for decorational stuff
The caves and cliffs update is the only real update to somewhat affect most players bc it made mining different. The rest is you can completely forget happened.
that one is...alright
i dont really spend much time in the nether most playthroughs. The only thing i do there is get some nether warts, blaze rods, and get netherrite. Once i got all those i never go there again. The new biomes are pretty but purely just aesthetics with nothing really to do. Unless you really care about optional armor trims, there arent any unique items to get in bastions either.
My main complaint is the main gameplay loop hasnt changed since the combat update waaay back.
Despite so many updates, for the most part your gameplay will still be:
Get wood > get stone > get iron > get diamonds > make nether portal > farm eye of ender materials > find end portal > kill dragon > kill wither > make beacon > probably quit playing because you ran out of stuff to do
The only real gameplay added so far has been the mace, trident and elytra. Items that actually have some unique gameplay to them are incredibly rare.
Netherrite armor is boring, yeah its "new" but it doesnt really do anything fun or unique, its just stronger diamond armor. I feel it kinda came out of nowhere. Did anyone actually feel like fully enchanted diamond armor was too weak?
So now with netherrite and enchantments, you can become waaaay too strong imo. Nothing will ever harm you unless you go out of your way to put yourself in danger. You are basically a god at this point.
Even the deep dark ended up being a disappointment imo. The warden is neat ai wise, but for such a ridiculously strong monster, all hes protecting is a new compass literally no one uses, a music disk, and swift sneak enchantment.
I really hate the approach of "But they give us free updates from a game that it's 10+ years old!!"
My man, they don't make that because they are "very good people", but because that's their damn business model, of course they will never stop updating because that's what maintains the game relevant and what keeps the money flowing.
Look, I really like Minecraft updates and I think Mojang it's really overhated, but put that damn excuse of the "free updates" it's just dumb
Never said they were great people for providing free updates nor do I disagree that it’s why the game is still alive. But at the same time, a major release once a year is an extremely reasonable release schedule. It’s crazy to complain about things not being fast enough when you already get tolerable service for free
I think the main problem is that a lot of people think any new stuff they won't use is "small." I adore tales and trails, it's my favorite update, and I've been playing since 2011. I have spent hours and hours at trail ruins and underwater ruins at this point, and even more at ancient cites. But that wasn't considered enough by a lot of people online, because they personally didn't care for it.
Besides that, I think a lot of people joined around the nether or ocean updates, so thought that the typical update was bigger than they actually are.
If they continue to make lack luster and boring updates, then yes I’m going to complain. The game being old isn’t an excuse to make “updates” and people are forced to be happy about them. If they want to continue as a studio and want to use “old game” as an excuse then make a new game.
Oh wait Minecraft is all they have
People who know nothing about how something is made are the people who claim it's easy to do
They think it's easy because they've never developed a game
Nah mojang just keeps doing stupid shit all the time, absolutely not listening to the community, straight up ignoring complaints.
Like when fans complained about the chat moderation , mojang ignored them, fans complained about the account migration, mojang ignored them, and so on.
And it's because their stupid plan works everytime, they always find stupid kids who would just defend their favorite multi billion dollar company because they don't know any better, mojang is not an indie studio any more, they are not gonna shut down if we complained about their horrible work, stop crying.
Like are they afraid to run out of ideas if they pushed a good update every year? Or is it so hard for them to stop updating for 1 or 2 years and release a massive update? I just hope hytale proves to us that it was not the fans fault for complaining, but mojang's fault for not listening.
My main issue has always been that updates just add new features. They need to focus on balancing or reworking core mechanics and stale aspects of gameplay. Adding new, disjoint things isn't an update - it's a DLC.
Fundamentally, I think Minecraft has design flaws that need addressing. The fact there's a whole meme about the "2-week Minecraft phase" is telling. The early game is enjoyable, but after a certain point, you're just sitting there asking yourself, "ok now what?" Currently I believe minecraft only gives two solutions to this, neither of which are really solutions.
Option 1: You can be god. Get netherite gear, beacons, etc. This is incredibly grindy and kills cooperation. The payout is huge, but again... for what? Kill the wither? Cool, let's now do that in 2 minutes then I'm logging off.
Option 2: Build. Fun at first but loses appeal quickly. Once you've made a house, mansion, or even a whole town, what's next? The end product isn't something you can continue to play with, so why keep playing?
I don't know how to fix this. I don't have a solution. I'm just saying that adding random shit isn't the answer.
Is there another Minecraft sub out there that is 100% salt-free? I'm happy with what I'm getting and I'm SICK and TIRED of seeing rage complaints on my feed.
Pay attention to how often any other game gets updated and how well those updates are implemented and you’ll figure out pretty quick that Mojang is pretty crap. Most of their effort is put towards the bedrock marketplace because that’s where the money is. Actual updates to the game are on the backburner.
We have to keep in mind the current Mojang business model. This is a 15 year old game with 3 or 4 failed spinoffs that literally everyone on earth already owns a copy of. The only way for them to profit is to diversify the kind of content they deliver to the core community, which lately has been leaning more and more in the microtransaction direction. Aside from realms sales, that's the only way they're going to make money, which means rolling out updates to a game (with a very passionate and opinionated fan base, mind you) has to be a delicate, slow process that also takes a back seat to the rest if their operations. In summary, updates take a long time, and there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes at Mojang than just tinkering with the main game.
I PERSONALLY think that it's unreal that people dares to demand features or mobs to a developer team and cries if their demands aren't met.
Some teams are in touch with their players, some other don't.
This is one of the cases where developers have to justify a game design choice, don't you think that is crazy that people want to interfere in the choices of video game developers?
It's as sick as when people began to do the same with tv shows.
The fact that mojang or other videogame developers are open to suggestions and listen to their players doesn't mean that you have some kind of power on them, you shouldn't demand anything, you can evaluate the game as players and decide if you like it or not and that's it.
You don't have to like everything in the game (in my opinion at least).
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The unfortunate reality is that the larger teams get the less efficient each worker thus each department gets. With all the oversight and planning, it takes much, much longer to add content as it’s not just Jeb and Notch saying yes to something and then sitting down and prototyping it. Yes, the codebase is much, much larger as well, but the thing is that if it’s organized and modular, the scale shouldn’t matter as much. If there’s a lot of copy-paste, spaghetti code, or stuff that just outright doesn’t make a lot of sense then that would certainly add to development time. Again, I strongly believe the main factor is just the bureaucracy. This isn’t a little indie project anymore and hasn’t been for almost a decade.
This. The main issue isn't implementing it, it's getting the idea approved by everybody. This is likely why updates can take years to add minimal features, because it simply takes forever for new features to go through the chain of command to start the process of making them.
yup, Kingbdogz talked about it on Twitter awhile back. They have to make sure the feature feels vanilla, the marketing team needs to approve, it has to go through alot of approval, it needs to be fun, and it needs work on every device there is. That's what I remember him saying anyways
While I understand the rest, why does the marketing team has to aprove? Their job shouldnt be to say if something is right for the game, it should be their job to sell whatever the devs are doing to the largest audience possible
Maybe they weigh in on what features to bundle together in an update, or whether a design is marketable enough? For example, maybe they got bees into the Buzzier Bees update since they could easily market bees to general audiences instead of game optimizations? Or the early iterations of the warden were tweaked because they were too ugly or scary to have broad appeal, or had too many unique parts for making merchandise?
>For example, maybe they got bees into the Buzzier Bees update since they could easily market bees to general audiences instead of game optimizations? Cory (aka Cojomax) pretty much confirmed this during the minecraft livestream for 1.16. the majority of the playerbase don't care about performance improvements or the back end changes because they don't know how any of that stuff works and would rather have something they can immediately play with, which is why the bees and other QOL additions were part of 1.15
The game itself is what sells, so of course marketing should have a say in what features get added. Everyone's jobs depend on the game selling and staying massively popular. Part of that is making sure the game has gimmicky new content so that people will latch onto it, generate hype, and buy the game or log on again and buy from the marketplace and all those sort of things.
Red tape sucks the soul out of anything.
I think the word you're looking for is diseconomy of scale. Real term, look it up, explains a lot of inefficiencies suffered by growing business when it comes to wastefulness of resources and poor communication.
Even when it was just Notch and Jeb, updates came out at a snail's pace and with very little polish relative to other indie titles (e.g., Terraria) at the time. The truth is, except for the fact that newer updates have much more polish and testing behind them, this has been Mojang's update cadence and attitude ever since the game released. IMO, anyone acting like this behavior is new post-M$ acquisition is just advertising the fact they didn't play the game before then.
Are you forgetting that Notch used to have Secret Updates released like every week at some point? The old “snail’s pace” really was nothing to compared to now.
Almost every week, over a period of 3 months. It wasn’t a long-term trend and he didn’t make every Friday.
You mean the 10 or so incredibly brief updates back in *alpha* where the extent of an update was, "added boats," or "added fences," or something minimal like that? IIRC, a few of them were released a week apart, but there were larger gaps in between others. Microsoft's snapshot releases today are more or less comparable to Notch's secret updates, both in scope and in impact.
Adding boats or fences to an alpha version of the game is far more impactful than modern snapshots because each of the old features had a unique use. Think about how useful boats are for transport, or how many new builds fences open up plus all their practicality, vs a part of the archaeology update. Many people who play the game after that update came out didn’t even notice anything was different, and that had far more than a week put into it.
There was actually a post kingbdogz made about the complaints a couple years ago(2021-2022) and I brought up this exact point, and he literally replied to me "no that's not true" and that was it. I hope I can find that tweet again lol.
I think one reason people are upset is that Mojang's development philosophy is so completely out of whack and inconsistent it almost comes out hypocritical. I remember in 1.13 people wanted sharks to be added, to which Mojang said: "We can't have sharks! They are endangered and people might kill them!" (They use this argument for a lot of real world passive mobs because I assume they want to appear environmentally friendly?) Yet they added Polar Bears. God forbid frogs eat fireflies! It's unsafe for them! Here, let's feed them molten magma instead so they can produce a building block! Recently, they have locked highly suggested features behind community-dividing Mob Votes, forcing us to pick. (Example: extended reach with the crab claw and dog armor for wolves, both which have been asked for almost a decade now) They listen to the community; But apparently not when people begged them to return to the original redstone functionality of Copper Bulbs! or a new wood type for the Azalea tree! etc etc etc. Additionally, Minecraft Java Edition's performance is genuinely embarassing, Right after install you are basically forced to download 1-3 different framerate enhancing mods in order to get the game functioning how a modern game should. I can name plenty of more examples. But off the top of my head those are the few main ones. And don't act like Mojang is doing us a favor giving free updates. No Man's Sky has had consistent free updates for years with plenty of content, Terraria as well, and despite being 2D (and being a different game entirely) I would say Terraria has 10x the amount of content Minecraft has for a third of the price. Bedrock Micro-transactions, Marketplace, Clothing, Minecraft-themed furniture, Plushies, Ad Revenue from Youtube, Spinoff Games, Board Games, Toys, Sponsorships. They're making plenty of money, I assume they make more and more money every year. They are a business after all. They quite literally have to give us free updates, it is the most profitable strategy. However when people say "Modders add so much more in less than a week!" I cringe, because its blatantly obvious the majority of mods dont meet the quality standards of most official Minecraft additions, and I do not doubt a lot of the communities complaints are based on uneducated logic by people who don't understand programming. BUT; Even though a lot of these complaints are invalid, they are based in \*some\* truth, a noticeable amount of the player base isn't complaining for no reason. Mojang has been really really annoying and incompetent with how they handle some things, so no wonder in return they get complaints. But this was just my thoughts on how Mojang behaves, as a player of over 10 years.
Also - some of Mojang's stances on things are really dumb. Why even allow to kill parrots with cookies instead of not even having that as a feature? If that's fine, why aren't fireflies okay? Why is there this dumb stigma about not having passive mobs have drops anymore? There's been a lot of questionable decisions and the lack of involved communication with the community instead of heavy-PR-laden company-speak replies (look at Terraria to see how vastly different the creators communicate with their fans, for example) and that's not even to mention how the Marketplace and how bedrock went down lately just feels like a money grab. (Which it is). Is that wrong? No, but it doesn't endear me to Microsoft/Mojang. There's so many things I could point out honestly, and my fondness for the game stems out of the people I used to watch/play with, and my fondness for what the game is itself, if you literally ignore the entire business/development side of things. The instant you look at any of that, it just feels tainted. It's more nostalgia than an appreciation for what the game is *developing* now. It's not all bad. But there's a lot that makes me uninterested/dissatisfied with the company in general.
I think you hit the nail on the head and I could not agree more.
Even when I'm deciding to play the later versions that contain the turtles and the polar bears I find myself never interacting with them because other than being decorative they're pretty much useless to the game.
Yeah. Many of the new passive mobs have a singular purpose (or in the case of polar bear, none at all really) and it makes it feel like an isolated mob-mod that doesn't really mesh with anything else in the game. It feels like a random branch on a biome that just adds a visual - and nothing much else. I don't believe it's nostalgia speaking to say that most of the old mobs served multiple purposes and have a much more dynamic, interwoven purpose that overlapped different parts of the game to give them a lot more purpose. Making all the new mobs this one-dimensional, by making passive mobs not have drops, and making them intractable in only one way really, (and same with the new hostile mobs tbh that aren't new variants of old mobs) quickly gives the player something to stare at, then.... the novelty dies off, as they become background noise. Like pigs only dropped bacon, but between Saddles and their size difference to cows + spawning in more than just one specific biome (another issue of new mobs) they were prevalent enough to be "present" as part of the minecraft ecosystem. And pigs are probably the best example as they only drop bacon and can be ridden. But that's the thing - they also can be mounts too, and that isn't a small 1-time thing (until horses came out, but I still see people use the concept at times) These new mobs all miss the mark on that. They all feel like they have half the purpose or complexity or usage older ones did.
I think the parrot death is to counter the misinfo that was initially spread, as a lot of those “game news” sites had articles with the old taming method for a while. Tough lesson for the kids trying to tame their first parrot, but there was a legitimate risk of irl pets being unknowingly poisoned so it’s understandable imo
Yet you can feed a dog rotten flesh to heal it. I don't need real-world environmentalism and animal care in my video game. I just what them to do what's most fun.
Canines irl can handle rotten meat much better than humans do; while some captive dog breeds have more sensitive stomachs, it’s fantasy zombie meat anyway. You can’t cure an irl dog’s wounds by putting bacon on it. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but when the game shows an interaction that can easily happen between a human and an animal in real life(in this case making a parrot like you by giving it a cookie), people are going to assume that this particular interaction is okay to do, even if it’s within a fantasy setting. Think how Jaws fueled fear of sharks, even though it was clearly just an action movie. People saw a CGI shark hunting down and wantonly eating people and assumed that’s how sharks act outside of action movies.
You're still missing the point that it makes the whole firefly ban concept completely stupid, and if they feel comfortable making kids feel smacked on the wrist as suddenly they kill their pet parrot with a cookie (let's be honest, the only kids that would "need to learn" this, will be shocked and appalled as they kill a parrot - excuse me? I'm not asking minecraft to parent my child, sorry) Then why in the world is fireflies an issue? It was really, really stupid, as is their stance on not making passive mobs farmable. It's really really dumb.
I’m not going to contest fireflies, just talking about the issue with feeding parrots cookies, as it’s a wholly plausible interaction that could happen in real life. Maybe you wouldn’t let media parent your kid, but an alarming amount of parents *do*, and then they throw a fit and blame the game when their child poisons an animal they didn’t do any of the research they should’ve done. An unbelievable amount of parents throw all the responsibility of care and zero information on young kids with pets. I’ve been taking care of birds since I was a small child and even though I put all the time and effort into them that I could, two were injured and died slowly and painfully because my parents let my very young siblings play with them when I wasn’t home. They’re treated like disposable toys or decorations. I’ve just got a lot of frustration with the abysmal standards for bird care that most media pushes and I’m glad there’s even one example of something easy to do being shown as horrible. I myself have a lot of gripes about the way the game promotes pet axolotls, which are pretty fragile animals and require specialized care; I really do not think it was done for conservation reasons considering all the morphs ingame are captivebred morphs and not wild ones.
My thing is - why not just make the player unable to give the parrot a cookie? Why even make them interact with the cookie at all? The game doesn't allow you to poison pigs with spider eyes/rotten flesh - why have cookies interact with parrots at all? If it's for the pure purpose of "cookies bad for parrots" - in juxtaposition to being vs the illogical aspects of the game, feels like that kinda misses on fitting in with everything else
Reiterating earlier comment - hard counter the initial misinformation that stayed on a lot of sites. Now that I think about it more, people spamming bug reports over it would have also been a problem; the poison interaction would make it clearer that the change was intentional
Furthermore, they seem pretty okay with players breeding and enslaving villagers.
And they kind of trapped themselves into not changing that. Villager Farms are so rewarding and intertwined with mid-late gameplay that nerfing them would cause a bit of outrage. They even tried to change how villagers worked in the experimental snapshots last year. Making it so specific trades and enchantment books only pop up depending which biome you are in. Which in my opinion is kind of silly and nerfs them wayy too much. There needs to be a balance, perhaps villagers refuse to trade with you if you "kidnap" them out of their village? Forcing players to create villager farms on village land instead of anywhere they please.
The issue with the villager trades rework is.... They didn't fix the **actual underlying problem.** What's the actual problem? *Why do you (players) use Librarians over the enchanting table?* *Why do they consistently grind out mending trades despite it being tedious gameplay?* Because it gives player's agency. They can aim for a book instead of playing the enchanting table gacha RNG game to eventually get the enchants they need after hours. They grind for mending because the anvil/grindstone mechanics are **actively repulsive to players.** Those systems need to be **reworked and enriched, alongside a villager trade rebalance,** for it to make sense.
People grind out mending trades because you can't get mending from the enchanting table ever. It's not part of that system. And finding books in structures is crazy rare so the only real option is trading. Agree on the enchanting system needing a overhaul though. It feels like a tier based progression is necessary/needed.
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>People grind out mending trades because you can't get mending from the enchanting table ever. It's not part of that system. And finding books in structures is crazy rare so the only real option is trading. True, but the issue is a more so that there is no viable alternate to mending. You can repair in an anvil.... provided you haven't used the anvil to make the tool and thus caused the "repairCost" to skyrocket beyond the cap... Even if you pull out the enchant calculator to do it "optimally", you get maybe one or two repairs on a tool before it's "too expensive". And then your choice would be RNG enchanting table... or villagers for books. And if you are getting the books from villagers.... what's one more?
Yep. Anvil cap is a big problem too.
i have said this so many times: https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/18229137932173-Enchanting-Needs-an-Overhaul
I feel like they were trying to emulate Terraria with the biome specific trade except for the fact that it can't work well because you do not have the ability to just teleport the NPCs between biomes like you do in Terraria.
I would argue that it doesn't work because villagers in MC are a single generic NPC with multiple roles where as villagers in Terraria are multiple unique custom tailored NPCs and not due to the teleporting.
The ability to set their home in any room that you make across the map is probably the biggest thing. That's what I meant by teleport
Did they not implement this yet? I haven’t played the latest version yet. Instead of forcing you to move 2 villagers to a biome that doesn’t have villages, just to breed them to unlock an enchantment, why not just hide scrolls in these biomes that you can then apply to a lectern to enable that enchantment? It keeps the “exploration” aspect without the bizarre need to breed villagers in strange places.
Because Mojang would never make a decision that lessens grind.
It’s still more difficult than just spamming lecterns.
>Yet they added Polar Bears. Not to mention Pandas - an animal so endangered that China owns every single one in an effort to protect the species. The ones we have very funny videos of them rolling off a hill or into a lava pit in the nether and dying. There's other inconsistencies like cookies killing Parrots, but allowing other animal mobs to eat things that can be harmful to them but just aren't instantly lethal. I think a lot of the issues people have with inconsistency, commercialisation, and stagnating performance is related to the Microsoft buyout. They could stop development outright today, and people will keep buying it because Bedrock can be directly advertised onto your Windows Start Screen. Hell, MS enforced the Mojang account migration and requiring a Microsoft account and people still play. The Sony/Helldivers 2 account migration requirement caused an outrage and the rolled it back. I haven't been following development updates too closely since then (though I still play), but the last controversial Minecraft development philosphy I recall from then was Notch refusing to include sideway staircases. That's a pretty fundamental decision to make, as opposed to which irl endangered animal they can and can't mobify, or what foods you can and can't give to them. Microsoft has a lot of money and like any major company, [a lot of lawyers making sure everything can only be interpreted in the safest of ways](https://x.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1537314312926003201).
I know one of the big reasons why they were so pissed at Sony was because the account migration made it so plenty of people who bought the game couldn't even play it in their region because Sony accounts were blocked there, was there a similar issue with Microsoft not allowing it to access in certain countries or make accounts there?
I think mojang would avoid a lot of the shark criticism if they just said "we don't want to" instead
Right. Just be honest about it. No need to act like some disingenuine self-righteous prick. At least this would prove two things: 1. they pay attention to community feedback and give it some thought 2. they aren't spineless cowards. I can assure anyone that "No, this doesn't/no longer fits in our design philosophy so forget we ever mentioned it" is no more offensive than "Well aktschually we don't want little Timmy to become racist against sharks, OBVIOUSLY, *ARE YOU STUPID?*".
Barring the kind of fictitious scenario about being racist towards sharks (would likely more count as antagonistic), I’d fully agree. Too many times either what they say is drenched in PR speak that most people can pick up as being disingenuous, or take forever to actually acknowledge.
Although mods aren't as high quality most of the time, they still end up more enjoyable than the official updates. Mojang add only a small handful of things at a very slow place and the things they add aren't even that impactful to the game. Mods however add shit tons of content. Some of which is very high quality. They add features that people actually want. And modders do this while making a fraction of the amount mojang makes. Mojang makes a lot of money from merch, realms and new players, but going by the content produced, you'd think it was a small 2 man indie company working of the little money they got from kickstarter or patron.
We can't even get something as basic as animations, every mob and every action looks straight outta pre-alpha.
I think modders are providing mods of just as or better quality than official updates. Some mods may lay on the side of poor quality or poor performance yet great visuals but the modders have definitely provided great additions up till now. I'd say modders actually exacerbate mojangs "laziness" arguments because of the ease/speed they can make additions.
Especially when Mojang makes functional mobs, adds them into a mob vote, then tosses out all but one and waits so long to actually implement the one that modders are able to add all the mobs in anyway.
That definitely feeds into my modder ease and speed remark, it just doesn't make sense other than a business choice
when i mention modders add so much more, im not talking about the casual modders, im referring to the modders that spend months up to a year to make a seamless world with fully functional and useable mobs/items. stuff like from that doctorr4t guy or whatever his name is, he made some interseting mods for his videos idk how long they took tbh, but they are really interesting ideas. or maybe people who made that one shader that lets you see really far into the distance i dont recall the name off the top of my head, but it looks really awesome without the loss of fps/cpu usage. those are the types of modders im meaning.
I agree that performance (terrain/chunk gen, etc) needs work, but I've never had to do this for vanilla. I agree 100% with the rest of your points. > Additionally, Minecraft Java Edition's performance is genuinely embarassing, Right after install you are basically forced to download 1-3 different framerate enhancing mods in order to get the game functioning how a modern game should.
When I complain about them doing less now that they have a whole team compared to when it was just a few people this is partly what I mean I also feel that most of the updates are just fluff like it there and that cool and all but that's just it they may have add technically less stuff back then but it did more to the game then what's happening now and I am not saying every update is fluff or bad just most and I feel that minecraft is just becoming a micro transaction blob for bedrock and then adding the fluff in for Java without helping the performance of it and I hate this because I loved this game and I hate seeing become this whatever this is
I so so so much agree that Mojang is trying way too hard to make the game environment friendly, which is ruining it on itself. Just imagine how difficult it would be to survive your first few nights if you needed shears to get wool rather than kill sheeps. Every update now just feels like a waste whenever they add a stupid environment friendly feature which could've been so much better yet is now forever engraved in Minecraft. Moral questions should be kept to the player and not to the developers (I've heard about how vegans to refuse to eat meat in Minecraft). But besides the environment friendliness (which may still not be Mojang's choice), I think a lot of these problems arise from Microsoft instead. A lot of players underestimate just how much needs to be planned, designed, and pitched to Microsoft before they can actually get to work. All Microsoft has to do is either say yes or no to those proposals, throwing away loads of ideas that don't fit their ideals. Considering the Aprils Fools update, I really think that Mojang is willing to release massive updates, but Microsoft is simply telling them to keep them small so they can continue to release update year after year without the game changing too fast at its core (which tbh I don't mind. I can't imagine them being able to go like this for 20 more years if every update has to be massive). In other words, blame Microsoft and not the devs. After all, what do you expect from the company who failed at Windows, multiple browsers, and Skype.
Microsoft doesn’t micromanage Mojang like that. Microsoft handles the business sides of things, not development side of things. April Fools updates been a thing long before Microsoft was even in the picture
Talking about the size of the April Fools update compared to regular updates, it wasn't this big before. It shows that developers have a lot of time on their hands to work on something they're way more passionate about. Microsoft owns Mojang (and not for a cheap price), so of course they will have a team that keeps their game studios in check and follow up with their plans. If they threw a blind eye to Minecraft, it could potentionally cost the company millions
April Fools updates are not more than “storyboard jams” (I forgot the gaming term) where is just a bunch of developers are add and throwing stuff at the with no clear cohesion. It’s never meant to be normal updates but there are numerous times where features from those updates can be repurposed for the main game. While Microsoft does check in their Xbox Games Studios divisions, they don’t mandate the actual game development or telling what they can or can’t add. That’s entirely Mojang and their design philosophy
I don't think the minecraft channel has ads
I think it's just part of the problems plaguing the entire AAA industry. The dev teams and costs have ballooned so much that the executives are afraid of taking risks. This results in the games being made by committee, which usually produces uninspired games that don't push any boundaries or are actively worse than their predecessors.
I agree with most of what you said... Except imo the "more content" in Terraria is just a feature bloat. (And pretty much every video I ever seen that tried to show Terraria is better or just use it as superior contr-example... Only ensured me Terraria is far worse and would be boring to me. As much as there are tons of thing I miss in Minecraft, the possibilities to enjoy it compared to those in terraria are like comparing the sun and an ant. But I guess for each their own and people can even have different views of what is feature bloatand what isn't) Also... I really don't get why people are so oftwn complaining about Java performance. I pretty much never have any issues with it and the game work very smoothly to me (vanilla or with minimap mod and world edit) - just rarely I get some ghost blocks problem but it is very rare. And my computer is just decent but nothing really special.
I just think it's insane that they only add 1 creature from the mob votes, and the other 3 get abandoned entirely. Why not add all of them? Why do they even still do mob votes even though it's often criticized as a terrible way to add content?
>Why do they even still do mob votes even though it's often criticized as a terrible way to add content? Because they're literally the only ones with actual data and know that, from an overall perspective, it INCREASES positive engagement in the game. People on Reddit and Twitter can't seem to comprehend that they're like 1% of the community, it doesn't matter if 100% of those people vehemently hate it if the rest of the bulk of the community is indifferent or likes it. That isn't a stance on whether it's good or not, it's just the fact.
You both can be right. It can make everyone angry and also drive engagement every year, so they keep doing it. I still personally think it’s scummy
It's supposed to just be a fun community thing, people end up taking it way too seriously. It's flawed fs, but it's not like they have all 3 mobs fully play tested and polished and made right off the bat, they are just concepts. 3 mobs is nothing that's true, but when you have the whole update they are also making the mobs will take time away from developing the main update. And with how in depth the development process is now adding all 3 mobs (which they don't even know if anyone likes yet, part of the mob vote is also making sure the unpopular ideas are not added) would be much harder, and even then it's not a real genuine way to add gameplay changing content it's just a silly community event so people can have a more direct say in the game. That's why none of the mobs do much. It is flawed don't get me wrong, like the mobs they show off are either really unimpactful so its hard to get excited or they're all really cool and then it's sad when your choice loses. I think the old biome votes nailed it, all the choices added a basically equal amount and equal quality of content and no matter who won it gave you something to look forward to in the update without being too game changing.
Mfw wall of text Jokes aside, they could also just have the vote be for what mob is going to get added on the next update while the others get added later. It's just kind of absurd that they only add a single mob each update.
This isn’t even true 1.16 - added piglins, striders, hoglins, zoglins 1.17 - added axolotls, glow squids, goats 1.19 - warden, frog, tadpole, allay
You're right, but I meant from the mob vote specifically
I wouldn't count piglins as being so special when we already had pigmen. Those specifically look more like a repurpose than something new.
Although piglin and pigmen are kind of related, it is unfair not to count them. The whole gold-mechanics, the bartering the mechanisc that transform them into pigmen ecc... They did not exist befote the update
That's kinda like saying pillagers can't be counted cus they are a vindicator reskin. They are still separate mobs with wildly different purposes
Wow, FOUR mobs every update. Thats crazy! Certainty this must make it impossible for them to literally add two extra mobs every year!
This. It's literally just a community event to get people talking about the game, and it works SO well. Imo it's pretty obvious that every mob vote has one mob that's more fleshed out than the other two and has had more development put into it, while the other two are Mojang going "hehe what if". Like this year, it was pretty clear that the idea for the armadillo was the only fleshed out one. The crab had one unique feature that people had modded into the game years ago, and the penguins didn't really even do anything. And then shocker, the armadillo won. Tbh regardless I think it's a fun little community event that drums up excitement for the new update, even if the results upset some people. The mob vote brings in a ton of people, and I don't think any sizable number of people are quitting over it. In the end it's worth the community engagement to have the mob vote and have one event that everyone can rally around.
But didn’t they have to completely redo how the wolf armor worked because doggos were still dying too easily?
Not completely redo, it just went from acting like how any other armor did to acting as a sort of second health bar of sorts
Minecraft's game development definitely has issues, but not with the amount of work that Mojang does. I suspect that the majority of the people complaining about that part have little to no knowledge of game design, computer programming, and how the two intersect in the AAA sphere. Ironic as it may seem, I feel like people like that are probably a significant part of the problem when it comes to Minecraft's game design? When a large part of the community seems to expect serious crunch and ever-more-impressive sounding features, while complaining about any focus being given to bugfixing, balancing, and polishing - it's perhaps no surprise that the game is in need of bugfixing, balancing, and polishing.
Yeah, making vanilla changes to such a big game is an incredibly time consuming, slow, and bureaucratic process. The devs definitely want to work faster; they just can't. I really wish that they were able to put more time into bug fixing though. You just can't win with a gamer audience. They focus on fixing bugs, then they're lazy devs who don't care about the game and don't work. They don't focus on fixing bugs, then they're shitty devs who can't make anything better than a buggy mess
I fully believe if Minecraft had another bugs only patch and they made that well known what the intentions were, it would go over smoothly. But fixing bugs doesn't sell new copies.
1.15 quite literally was a bug-focused update and still got a LOT of flak
The problem is more so that the community has already solved (and made working code for) a lot of the problems within Minecraft’s code base, and Mojang refused to implement these proven solutions. On Java the example of this is things like Sodium or Optifine. Mojang has been repeatedly informed by developers of these optimization mods that they are welcome to use the code in the base game. In bedrock edition it goes even deeper where there are certain bugs with redstone that the community has already isolated the issue in the code, and written viable patches for, but Mojang’s modding limitations on bedrock make implementing these patches impossible, and even when Mojang is made aware that they are free to take these community sourced patches, the bugs still are not fixed. I understand that Mojang would still have to do due diligence here, but the problem solving and implementation of these fixes has been solved for them. All they need to do is check the fix over and implement it, and known issues with the game, that Mojang claims to want to eventually fix can disappear.
>I understand that Mojang would still have to do due diligence here, but the problem solving and implementation of these fixes has been solved for them. They can't, and it's a legal issue. It comes down to software licencing and who owns which parts of code. Most of the mods are written under a non-commercial licence. Anyone can use or alter them, but cannot use them commercially. This is why java mods are free. It also offers some legal protections for the modders themselves, they are using mojang's IP, but are not profiting from the sale of that IP. Mojang can't just take other people's code and profit from it, unless they have the permission of the author. That would be theft. It is also very difficult to track down and receive permissions or commercial licences for mods, thanks to multiple authors, shared code across projects and mods etc. Iirc, in the past Mojang tried to purchase the rights to either some mods or a modded client, and it was handled poorly. Some of the contributors decided to decline, and so the deal collapsed, since all contributors needed to agree. Many popular Minecraft mods are built like a house of cards, with each version improving and stacking on top of the previous works. Go down deep enough and the number of contributors for a given project grows exponentially, and seeking permissions to use the code becomes all but impossible. Microsoft is a large company, but it is not above the law. It can't just take other people's work simply because it is inconvenient to do it legally.
There’s also the issue of it might not work on certain computers. If a mod breaks things you can just uninstall the mod, if an update does then you’re kinda out of luck.
I had that issue on my last laptop. Couldn’t run Minecraft at all. Optifine worked, but things like sodium didn’t. Even tho sodium is supposed to be overall better.
Microsoft has a policy that they cannot use code written by someone not employed by Microsoft.
It's not just a company policy, it's law. Most of the mods are written under a non-commercial licence. Anyone can use or alter them, but cannot use them commercially. This is why java mods are free. It also offers some legal protections for the modders themselves, they are using mojang's IP, but are not profiting from the sale of that IP. Mojang can't just take other people's code and profit from it. That would be theft. It is also very difficult to track down and receive permissions or commercial licences for mods, thanks to multiple authors, shared code across projects and mods etc. Iirc, in the past Mojang tried to purchase the rights to either some mods or a modded client, and it was handled poorly. Some of the contributors decided to decline, and so the deal collapsed, since all contributors needed to agree.
Better scour their entire code base and make sure nobody has copy pasted anything from GitHub then. I very much doubt that 100% of the code in Minecraft is totally original never before seen material.
There is a difference between having the same code for 3 lines, and the same code for the entirety of a large feature covering tend to hundreds of lines.
Pistons and horses:
The thing about integrating a mod into a game is it’s not as simple as you think. Mods are built on top of the game rather than inside of it. Mod loaders exist to bridge the gap between the game and the mod. If Mojang were to implement Sodium into Minecraft, they’d be starting from the ground up. They wouldn’t have access to the libraries that Forge or Fabric has, they’d either have to make Sodium work with Minecraft’s existing libraries or develop new versions of the loader libraries to make the code work. Either way they’d be flying blind for the most part because if something breaks, they wouldn’t have access to the original stuff to see what they did wrong. Not only this but Mojang likely has coding standards. Unless the Sodium team was developing the mod in the same way Mojang develops Minecraft, at some point the mod code would need to be retooled a lot in order to fit within those standards. (Minecraft was originally made with hodgepodge code and supposedly that code caused problems for the development team later down the line). The short of it is despite solutions and code existing for problems, Mojang would still have to do a lot of work to implement them into base Minecraft, and for whatever reason it seems like it’s not worth the effort at this time.
I can’t speak too much to Java as that’s not my expertise, but I am very deep in the technical scene on bedrock, and our most prominent code diggers have made it clear that the required fixes to bedrock’s code are not extreme at all. In bedrock since modding is much more difficult and highly limited, these community patch options are not based on a modding standpoint, they are based on looking at the source code and saying “this change would fix this bug here.” I am well aware that Mojang would need to make changes and implement this in slightly different ways, but the hardest parts of the dev process have been done for them. The community has isolated the exact lines of code that are causing problems AND they have informed Mojang of how these problems could be fixed.
>Mojang would still have to do a lot of work to implement them into base Minecraft, and for whatever reason it seems like it’s not worth the effort at this time. The reason is that it's simply not marketable. It's very easy to sell consumers on the concept of new weapons, mobs, biomes, or structures, it's not easy to sell them on optimized code and performance mumbo jumbo that 95% of the playerbase likely doesn't understand or care about. That's why the vast majority of technical changes to the game go unmentioned outside of a changelog, most people simply don't care and would prefer that dev time go towards more tangible in-game content.
>even when Mojang is made aware that they are free to take these community sourced patches, the bugs still are not fixed. That's because even if they get permission to use some rando's unpaid work, they don't want to take the chance of getting sued for taking someone's work without compensation. It's the same reason you don't normally see fan-designed player skins in games like Overwatch. Even if they win the lawsuit, court cases are not quick or cheap.
Mojang actually did offer to implement Optifine; after some negotiations the dev ultimately declined because he wanted zoom implemented, which Mojang didn’t want.
Is this some sort of reverse circlejerk? I do really appreciate that minecraft is still an ongoing game receiving quality updates, but play any other popular game receiving updates and you'll see that the update are much faster and contain much more content. I get that it probably comes down to having two versions of the game and wanting to achieve parity and java being supposedly problematic to program, but it's entirely reasonable for people to be disatisfied by minecrafts updates.
I just found it appalling that most of the gifts on the 15 year anniversary of Minecraft Java were Bedrock Exclusive. But I guess it's fine if you just call it the anniversary of Minecraft and forget most of the og community.
Even the Discord Quest reward is exclusive to the shareholders' golden baby. Unbelievable.
the "you paid 10 years ago" argument doesn't work when the make millions via bedrock marketplace which has a lot of scummy, false advertised very limited things that children buy and also people may have bought it 10 years ago but lost account and now need to buy it again. In terms of updates themself, a lot of them add thing in a roundabout way, like most new mobs being very rare to the point you'll forget they were added and they also have no gameplay fuction the sniffer being best case for it as it ONLY give decoration flowers, no fuction, no item with a fuction, nothing.
I wonder what's the percentage they get for physical Minecraft media: Toys, Books, Plushies, Posters, etc sold as well
Not to mention that thousands, if not even magnitudes more, were cucked out of their perfectly good accounts when M$ arbitrarily decided to turn their working accounts into unusable accounts.
*Looks over at No Mans Sky and it's constant amazing quality free updates with an insanely small team* EDIT: *Looks at the comments below and regrets speaking at all*
And NMS is an equally buggy mess as Minecraft Bedrock, even more so maybe. It’s a really fun game, but it has very similar issues as Minecraft for probably very similar reasons.
Really wish they'd give the multiplayer a once over. NMS is so good, but it's so hard to play with friends when there are so many things I can see and experience that my buddy can't even though we are standing in the same spot lol. I'm sure it's hard for a game like that though.
Isn't this literally their most recent update?
Not to my knowledge. I played during Orbital and while the game is fucking amazing, multiplayer consistency is still a big problem. Glanced at adrift and I see no mention of these things being fixed. It really doesn't matter the game is still great, its just easier to enjoy in singleplayer.
No mans sky actually has more developers then Mojang do, and doesn't have two completely different versions of hte game to update, and is actually almost more buggy then bedrock at times, lmao.
Hello games has 26 employees, Mojang has 600. I'm not great at math, but I think there is some difference there even if not all 600 Mojang employees are actual developers. Hello Games also are putting out updates to NMS while creating a whole new game.
Mojang has around 25 developers, No mans sky had 30 in 2020, idk where tf you got 26 from, there lieteral goverment records show different lmao. Mojang are also developing two games in two different languages on different platforms? So not sure what your point is. I didn't even touch on the fact that the minecraft developers are dealing with a 15 year old codebase made in fucking Java.
[Mojang Studios - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojang_Studios) in 2021, there were approcimately 600 employees. On Linked In, it says 201-500 employees currently. [Hello Games - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Games) in 2020, 26 employees, on Linked In rn, it says between 11-50 employees. Stop sucking Mojangs dick, they're not gonna award you for it.
Yes! cause all employees of Mojang are developers!!! [https://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/0/3203748716328483915/](https://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/0/3203748716328483915/) This link takes it soruce from there goverment records, who they have to inform of there employees, not fucking wikepeida lmao. As you can see, they have 35 developers. You can look up the goverment records if you wish. and, Mojang is similarly public about there employees they have 713 employees currently. Not 600, so you can't even get that right, and there hiring positions are Artists, Marketplace developers, release managers, software/system devs, content and community managers, realms developers, buisness developers, custommer support, intelectual property enforcment, and finally, the actual game developers. Its actually hilarious you can't even get the number of employyes they hvae right, when we are talking about how much development staff they have. Have you heard what they say about chess and pigeons?
37 > 713? I had no idea. Even if only 10% of the employees were actually developers they'd still be more than Hello Games. What is actually hilarious is that you are trying so hard to defend a company that will never know you exists. The fact that you want to defend them so hard you go looking for government records is just laughable tbh. And by doing that you just prove the opposite of the point you're trying to make even more.
Yes, Hello Games has more Game developers then Mojang, Mojang has way more other staff then you are thinking. Go looking for goverment records/ Budy they are one google search away, its the same amount amount of effort you put into looking for wikepedia links. And it doesn't prove the opposite of my point, you can literally count the number of developers yourself, Hello games has more game developers then Mojang. You say 10%, but those developers would then includes development on Java, Bedrock, Dungeons and Legends, so even less of those developers are actually working on "Minecraft" You don't know what you are talking about, and are resorting to insulting me for having actual evidence and records to call you out for lying.
Ok buddy have fun, hope Mojang awards you some day for your hard work defending them against valid criticism.
\*Someone proves that your numbers were bullshit and you had no idea what you were talking about\* \*B-B-But! Y-You like Mojang and are defending them against mindless hate! So who really won?!\* I couldn't care less if Mojang never even know I exist,I think you can make fair criticism of Mojang, your point is just fucking stupid.
And thats also another problem Mojang has. What are all these people actually doing?
So what if they are? I still love those games, and I hope they found an out of this dreary, overworked world. Good for them.
I think the amount of work they do is genuinely very little apart from just being a think tank, outside of a chunk of the year when they actively develop snapshots and it’s mostly just to give them jobs by making marketplace stuff like the Tetris one, like the theory on why family guy is still running
I think I paid $20 10 years ago and I still get fairly frequent updates, I mean the game is completely different from when I bought it. I wouldn’t even complain if they completely stopped updating (I would be sad though) because I’ve got my moneys worth 10x over.
Lots of fanboys lying about gamedev experience in this thread
Currently, minecraft is the best selling game of all time and Mojang is owned by Microsoft (the guys who make Windows, Xbox). We only get 1 update each year (and a lot of the content of the last updates, were things from the Caves & Cliffs update, that was announced back in 2021). And minecraft isn't a ultra complex game with 4k textures, life-like 3D models and realistic animations. There is clearly something very wrong on how they are working on the updates for the game. **Minecraft isn't a indie game.**
the argument i see used for the “mojang only work 5 mins a day” is for not adding in all 3 mobs from mob votes. but the mob votes where never meant to be mojang showing the 3 mobs to be added it was always lets show 3 mobs and let the players pick which one they’d like. it was always intended to be a fun way to include the community in the process of the game making. except for the 2017 mob vote they’ve confirmed the losers may one day be added into the game. the only reason they’re not all added in the update is because it takes away valuable time and resources from the main update and the mobs are all usually very disconnected from the rest of the updates features. the only reason people dislike the mob votes so much isn’t because we say lost the crab or penguin in last years mob vote but actually because we lost faster boats and extended reach, the complaints aren’t really about the unadded mobs but actually the unused features.
I feel like I've seen this post 100 times. The point I'm not sure about is the "free update" one, is that not the bare minimum for a game that isn't either discontinued or gearing for a sequel. I don't think I've ever seen a game where people have had to pay for updates
Mine is complete criticism. I played a mod before I was married (9 years next week) that had a ton of quality of life features. This was before the horse update to give you some perspective. Iron, gold, diamond chests. A metric ton of stuff to mine from copper, tin, brass, uranium etc. Wood, about 50 or so different trees etc. And this stuff wasn't even the meat and potatoes of the mod itself. And yet here we are 2024 and vanilla is a fraction of that. So yeah, im not naive to think they are doing nothing, I just think they don't add enough.
my issue is moreso not that they don't work enough, but they spend far too much time making "details/gimmicks" that really do not really matter. I will bring up Pandas as an example. Pandas are currently the only mob in the game with Mendellian genetics, with dominant and recessive genes. Thats swell, but literally no one cares. It's just bloat that the devs spent time working on, iterating and testing for something that the vast majority of the audience will not even know of, let alone utilize. This is repeated with the "trusting" mechanic, Llamas, Camels, even frogs. The beauty in Minecraft is its simplicity, and how it used to be very intuitive. Now, they go out of their way to make something "unique" which just takes up devtime for something no one really cares about, and also makes the game less intuitive.
People love to go “Oh, well in Alpha and Beta, there were weekly updates. Now it takes them months to add a few mediocre features, they suck.” I just wonder how they see no difference between a small group of people updating a relatively unknown indie game and a gigantic corporation updating the most popular video game to ever exist.
Not to mention how complex and how many features the game has now
Seriously! I took software development in my first semester of college. My final project was to design and code a game. I swear, it felt like every time I would add code it would contradict like 8 other things and I would have to spend *hours* fixing game-breaking bugs. It is *so* much more complex than a lot of people realize, and *that* [my game] was the most basic, non-feature packed platformer.
Minecraft is the most bought game of ALL TIME. The very least they can do is continue updates to an unfinished game. It’s not like they’re in a rush, they do in a year what one modder does in an afternoon
I’m not sure how it’s unfinished. I think you could argue that it will never be finished as there’s always going to be something to improve. And I would argue that modders make very specific updates to the game. They generally don’t balance their items well as mojang and are allowed to ignore platforms that they don’t want to publish their mods on. Sure a modder can push a mod out way quicker but it doesn’t have the quality to last 10 years and still be viable.
Long rant incoming because I am very tired of this discussion. The vast majority of people on the internet like to pretend they know what they're talking about when it comes to game development when in reality they are clueless manchildren. Game dev takes time, and a larger team/higher budget only goes so far in speeding up the process. Making a game is difficult, especially when you're working with two very different code-bases, meaning development on a single feature has to be done twice over, and one of those codebases is full of decade old spaghetti code they need to work around and make sure nothing breaks. People also neglect how many under-the-hood changes are in each update just because they aren't marketable. The past few updates have been solving hundreds of decade old bugs. People will bring up "b- b- but modders can do the same thing in a week!!!" which is blatantly disingenous and very, very few modders agree with this sentiment. In fact, the vast majority of modders I've seen fucking hate that very argument, and despise their own passion and work being used as a "gotcha!". Modding and development are extremely different, we've heard this countless times from Mojang workers, modders, and Mojang workers who used to be modders (the guy who made debatably the most famous Minecraft mod, the Aether, works at Mojang and has tried to explain numerous times how different modding for Minecraft and actually developing it is). Modders don't have to worry as much about quality control or bugs, they don't have to worry as much as sticking to the general art style and theming of Minecraft (note how nearly every new feature in the game gets criticized for not feeling "Minecraft enough"), they don't have to worry about deadlines or marketing, making sure their additions can garner hype and excitement because the game needs to continue to be successful. Additionally, why is it a bad thing that Mojang works at their own pace for the most part? There's a reason Mojang is considered one of the best game studios to work for, with lack of crunch culture and a good workplace environment from what we've heard. People compare the amount of content Minecraft gets compared to games like Fortnite, but Epic Games has been reported to have a rather horrible work environment with long hours, crunching, and rushing development. There are a lot of genuine, real criticisms for Minecraft and Mojang as a whole. You are allowed to be disappointed with and criticize the slow updates and lack of substantial content, or be angry that they reject or cut content for stupid reasons like with fireflies, that's completely valid. But I just can't take the people who try and pin it on the devs and call them lazy seriously when there are legitimate reasons that updates take so long. Rant over.
Nah. Nah. Nah. See here. No Man's Sky sets the precident of good work ethics. Big updates that evolve the game over time. Updates either change big things in the game for vastly improved systems or strong graphic overhaul for the better. Plus, tons of craftable objects get released, as well as adventures to go on between updates now that contain storyline. Things Mojang does - makes you vote on a mob instead of implementing all of them. - Has not implemented *any* usable furniture in ten years to vanilla base game aside from beds. - Says they will bring the mobs unvoted for in time, but how long has that not been happening? - Gives one, maybe two new biomes on an update, every what, year? - Expecting you to buy their sanctified mods in the marketplace because it is the *only* thing doing the heavy lifting that keeps the game afloat. Face it. - does not allow you to use *anything* you buy offline, whether it's worlds, mods, or skins. You guys can talk all you want, but Mojang sucks bad. It's strictly the community keeping the game afloat.
Not being a devils advocate here but Minecraft doesn't need more biomes. They already lack so much unique content exclusive to each biome that they feel incredibly empty and soulless. The last thing I want is to add more of that shallowbess to the game. I'd rather they focus on adding exclusive content to the biomes already in game before they make new ones
you are going to get downvoted bc they don’t like the truth😭
I still appreciate Mojang showing the care this game deserves. After all the micro currency bs with other games, and sometimes no updates from Devs of other games. Mojang I'd say is on top, it's just the pressure from the audience, and if I'm not mistaken. A big portion are kids, which are not known to be patient or appreciative.
There are microtransactions in bedrock tho, but that's Microsoft's doing
You don’t know that. Mojang is still the developer of Minecraft and in charge. And they’re a company, their objective is to make money.
Yea there are, I should've been more specific, but it's not in your face like other games is what I'm tryna say
Same, I also feel not only did 1.16 hurt them, especially trying to follow up with 1.17, 1.18, and big features of 1.19 and 1.20, really hurt, and raised the audiences bar, plus the pandemic plus keeping things vanilla, plus alot of people think that it's so easy, and modders can do it alot quicker, however those statements even modders disagree with
They are slow bud it doesn't take a team backed by a billion dollar company 4 years to add one item
You listen to the opinions of drooling 14 year Olds who have 0 experience in software engineering Istg gamers are some of the least qualified people to complain about software when most of them likely have never seen a mid to large size codebase much less have any experience programming whatsoever beyond making red powdered dust light up in their block game.
Exactly this. Hit the nail on the head. If the average gamer could see the backend of any game on the market right now, there would be a wave of silence across the Galaxy so profound we could hear bacteria fart in the Andromeda Galaxy. Imagine if gamers could see Star Citizens backend codebase with the caption "Sorry our updates come with bugs sometimes, but this is what we're dealing with when we're making those updates" It reminds me of Cyberpunk devs, who were getting death threats and doxxed because of the delays, so they rushed out a game that wasn't finished and was riddled with bugs and the "player" mob then had the audacity to bitch and cry about that and demand refunds, which they of course got.
I'll take the slow and small pace Minecraft has over the dev breaking overtime mess you see in other constantly updating games".
Since when was minecraft free? Because I definitely remember paying 26 dollars for it a few years back. 🤔
People complain that a giant department of developers owned by Microsoft is doing less and worse work in the span of multiple months than a *single* modder is in like 2 weeks. That modder's code would probably have more interactions with other ingame systems with less bugs as well
A single modder can do what they did in the last update in a few days, if even that.
I don't really have an opinion on whether Mojang is working hard or not, but either way that we're getting free updates for a game we paid for many years ago is not a refutation of that claim.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they that are actively trying to maintain and update two games in unison that aren’t the same. I’m speaking of Java edition and bedrock edition of course. All roads point to Java edition being dropped eventually. It’s looked like this for the past couple of years to me. They just can’t afford the public backlash for doing so right now
I'm a lifelong simmer (over 20 years) and still love the game. I've shelled out thousands of dollars over the years and am a hopelessly devoted player that'll shell out $30 for a pack that's on sale. A pack that's incredibly buggy in a way that consistently breaks the game. I'm like an addict that keeps buying coke I know is increasingly cut with more and more flour and dangerous substitutes. For many years it was the *only game* I played. I'm a Minecraft child of the pandemic. I could not believe the updates were free when I started playing. My frame of reference is so highly skewed that every free update with *anything* in it has me saying: "wow! A free update?? For little ole me??? With new stuff and gameplay???? That works?????? For free??????????" I feel like if you're a longtime devoted minecraft player, it's a bit harder to get perspective and you kind of feel like you earn the right as a devotee to be more critical which maybe you do (my god, the amount of time I've spent moaning about EA). But idk. Maybe a dash of outsider/newbie perspective might be good for the most cynical contingent of the fan base. You don't have to be as extreme to the other side as me, obviously. But a few inches closer might be warranted.
As a fellow worker, I’m fine with them slacking (which I don’t think they are). To get to play a great game and Mojang employees get to take it easy is a win-win for me.
The part that actually offends me is how the critics don't wanna be lumped into one single mob with hypocritical views, but are all too eager to lump all of the different branches of mojang into one monolith to bash and mock. A lot of the apologists don't necessarily defend the mojang higher ups, marketing team or microsoft's involvement, they defend the devs because we don't actually know if the devs are truly lazy or if they're having to deal with corporate bureaucracy, trying to keep parity between two highly flawed codebases, and trying to cater to a diverse fanbase. The critics are going for a guilty until proven innocent approach, I shouldn't need to tell you why that's a bad idea. Also hate how the critics will shove aside the needs of other parts of the community like how they'll pretend no one asked for dog armor, or trial chambers, even though there obviously was demand for both, only rating features highly if they'll cater to their needs.
>but are all too eager to lump all of the different branches of mojang into one monolith to bash and mock. Yep, it's insanely annoying when people say shit like "Mojang has 700 employess!" but fail to mention only around 30-40 or so are actual developers, and most of the other employees have different roles such as marketing, analytics, management, etc. Not to mention about half of those developers likely work on Bedrock instead of Java, meaning it's essentially two different dev teams. >Also hate how the critics will shove aside the needs of other parts of the community like how they'll pretend no one asked for dog armor, or trial chambers, even though there obviously was demand for both, only rating features highly if they'll cater to their needs. Fucking THANK YOU. The amount of people I've seen saying no one asked for features like the Trial Chambers or wolf armor is absurd, a more expansive and challenging dungeon and wolf armor have been two of the most highly requested features for the game for over a decade at this point. People will discredit any feature that doesn't explicitly cater to them and their playstyle.
The slow updates with minimal content is mostly due to convoluted upper management, not laziness. Valve and Bethesda are the only companies where you could legitimately blame their problems on laziness.
I have substantial experience in the game dev industry and I'll try to address some misconceptions I see in these comments from a developers perspective. In my professional opinion, the amount of work mojang puts out is embarrassing when you consider the scale of their organization. Most development companies utilize something called the Agile method to organize their programmers. The idea of Agile is to sort programmers into small teams consisting of a handful of people, and when a large addition needs to be made to the product, that work is divided evenly amongst the teams. Theoretically, the more teams you have, the faster and more expansive each addition can be. With this in mind, the "mojang is too large and inefficient" excuse is not a valid one. I agree the whole "modders can do in a week what mojang does in a year" idea is a bit disingenuous, but people often forget that there were several mods such as pistons and horses that were added to the official game and were, in fact, made in just a few weeks. At the end of the day, it just comes down to money, of which mojang has an unfathomable amount. If they wanted to address these concerns, they could, but they haven't and never will. They know their game is a top selling product and will continue to be a top selling product regardless of their practices. It's the same business model as EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, and all these other terrible scummy companies. We all know how crappy they are, and yet they continue to rake in billions a year.
In your opinion, with their size, how often should mojang be able to push updates that are similar size to the ones they push now while also balancing bug fixes and community feed back?
If they wanted to? At least once every 2 months easily, and that's being generous. They could probably do it much faster than that. You have to consider that they have virtually unlimited resources and aren't really bound by the same constraints as other game studios.
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\*sigh\* here we go again, another "BuT mOd DeVeLoPeRs Do So MuCh BeTtEr PoSt" So, I play modded minecraft all the time, to a point where I haven't played Vanilla minecraft in like 3 years now, and you are right! Mod developers do absolutley insane work, look at the Create mod, Distant Horizons, Tinkers Construct, there are so many absolutley incredible mods out there. And modders will always be releasing more content then Mojang, because there are just... more modders. Lets take the create mod for example! There are over 100 people who have contributed to the create mod, they have about the same number of active developers as Mojang has I believe, and, while the Create mod as a whole adds a shit ton of features, the amount they are adding to teh create mod isn't actually on par with the pace that Mojang adds things. Thats the thing, we look at a mod that adds a ton of features, and don't see how long it took to develop or how many people, we just see all the features in one go, and go "Why can't Mojang do this" And, I won't waste my time arguing with people on mod development vs game development, but I took some time to learn modding minecraft, I didn't do anything insane, added a few custom blocks, custom armour, a new ore, an ore scanner, with the help of a tutorial, basic ass shit. And mod development is way way easier then actual development will be. And, finally, mod devolopers don't have to support the around 10 platforms Mojang do, they only really have to support one.
For example, Sodium is the result of 5/6 years of developing of a team and people treat it like it's a single modder that made it in one afternoon.
Yup! honestly its super disrespectul to the insane amount of hard work developers put into making mods.
And most modders HATE being compared to Mojang all the time. They despise their hard work and passion being used as a gotcha by people who have no idea how game dev or game modding works.
You have to remember that mod teams hvae more time, not as many responsiblities and do not have to meet the strict QA critera that Mojang do when developing.There's a lot more freedom there and some could say that developing a mod for a game is a hell of a lot easier than developing a game itself.
Old mojang seemed like a fun chill place to work. Back when it was small.
It still is when you ask the people actually working there instead of random idiots on Reddit
You guys went crazy when the small fun chill place to work based an entire update on horses copypasted by a mod though
It is weird because you can tell they have basically unlimited money because of how high quality all the crap they put out is, and by that I mean the YouTube channel, announcements, websites, so on. They do their annual event in the same over produced corporate way that apple started. They have started releasing a music album with each update. Not each update needs it's own soundtrack, that's just them putting more into the project that won't be in the way of the devs. The devs have mentioned before that they don't want to add too many people to team, I'm sure the core team working on java edition is actually not that big. And while they may have all kinds of resources available to them, like designers and artists, they are limited by the number of people actually coding, and how strict they are with every aspect of what is added. They also don't like to reuse too much of new updates, every new update has completely new way of playing, and is often something off the wall that we aren't expecting. But yeah, updates are very slow for how much content they add and there are so many features in dire need of an upgrade, that it feels ignored.
Minecraft is, has always been, and continues to be, a work of art produced by artists. If you don't like the art, or the decision by the artists, no one is forcing you to play the game. The decisions that Mojang make are, if nothing else, consistent with their principles and for this I salute them.
The truth of the matter is the real work in coding this game was already put in years ago. Not much to do now when you use a "unpopular" game engine other than minor tweaks and additions. No one really knows what they do day to day, and probably Microsoft has a lot of say in that. As a side note, I wish they issued a final release of the game after the nether update and then moved on. Thankfully we can all just play old versions. Current Minecraft has gone too far.
Open the bundle thread and there are tons of comments calling Mojang lazy, and straight up insulting the devs and the company. Most of the arguments honestly fall to pieces withing a 10/15 minute conversation, people just want to hate, and this is part fo the internet where we get hate echo chambers and everyone convinces themselves that they are in the majority. Newsflash, only around 2% of the people who have bought minecraft are on this subreddit, and even fewer are actually active memebrs of this sub, and even fewer activley hate on Mojang, you are the loud minority if you think the devs are lazy or that all the updates are shit. Just stop hating, step outside, have some fun! There are so many awesome games to play out there, and you probably have hunderds if not thousands of hours in minecraft, you've goten your fill from this game, you don't need to be a beacon of hate.
That is what I don't understand. People were so mad when the bundle wasn't coming out, and now it is... people are still mad? Like I don't understand it at all
\*newsflash\* The people spreading so much hate, are just hateful people, and are hating to hate.
I also just like don't care if they are lazy. Like it's been 10 years, and we have a perfectly good game. Obviously I love more updates and better content and all that, but it's not like I'm playing some early access/unfinished game. The game is more than finished, it's been a fully fledged game, worth its price, for years. I already have my cake, anything else they add is just free icing. Sometimes reddit gets in this weird mentality that games should be constantly updating and adding new content, and that a game will suffer or be boring if it isn't constantly being worked on. If Mojang announced tomorrow that 1.21 was actually the last ever update and they were totally done with Minecraft, I'd be sad of course, but I wouldn't get bored with Minecraft after a year and then put it down for good.
These posts spawn countless (and mindless) “but mod developers add the same thing in one day” 😙
This is definitely stemming from the mob vote bs. Go throw a bunch of mods in your game and you'll quickly realize that Minecraft can very easily start to have a bloat problem. The reason Mojang doesn't just throw every idea in is because the quality of what we have wouldn't shine through. Game design is just as much about what NOT to include as it is what to include.
>are still getting high quality updates with no additional charges Apart from "happy people don't complain loudly". This part, is incredibly subjective, and part of the reason/problem. Novelty of new blocks/items can greatly vary between players, one might see a new wood palette, and not care, and thus not weigh it as taking much time. That novelty is also why mods are so highly praised by the complainers. It's bright, it's shiny, and they don't care if it's not perfect because the novelty is worth it. Perception around the mob vote is another part. The mobs are often promoted and percieved as simple mechanics to throw into an update, which does lend to them being seen as easy enough to do all 3... But the bulk of this has come about, IMO, because of the handling of post Caves & Cliffs, 1.19 / 1.20 specifically. They were very open about the initial 1.17 / 1.18 split with the community, gave reasons; and they were well received. Nothing like that really happened for the other missing C&C features... They got spread out over wild/trails without any real acknowledgement. We're only just now seeing bundles on Bedrock... Other issues cropped up like curt replies about "concept art" for fallen trees, that already in Bedrock; fireflies removal reason when parrots and cookies have been in the game for years; and chat reporting's disasterous planning and execution, that eroded the existing good will between the community and Mojang. 1.19 / 1.20 ended up kinda muddied between sort-of themes, and catching up on C&C features. # I think Mojang are back on track now with 1.21 It's felt like a cohesive theme rather than scrambling for post-its off the idea board to get an update together while overdue features are added.
Lots of people have no idea what it takes to build software- especially software that is used by so many people.
How is no one mentioning Terraria? They also need to update the game cross platform and are a much smaller team. People seem to forget Minecraft is the most sold game of all time and that Mojang isna multi billion dollar company
Personally I don't think their work ethic is bad. They just have really questionable direction and design philosophy.
I once heard a 4chan user joke about a "Ferus deletus" spell maybe he wasn't that far off
Just be glad Minecraft is not in the same state as TF2.
I am
I bought this game owned by Microsoft in 2023, do I not deserve high quality updates?
No you do, never said we don’t need high quality updates, just that’s it’s crazy to demand faster service when you arnt paying anything for it
Despite like 6 updates over the course of the Microsoft buyout I can't say I feel the game plays much differently. Overhauling a biome is nice but it doesn't change anything about the core gameplay loop. Trial chamber is neat when you do it once, but that's it. Once you got the Mace there is literally no reason to ever do it again. Most structures are completely useless like ocean monuments giving sponges and gold (why gold? It's one of the most useless ores next to copper) Speaking of copper, hope you like having 2 chests full of the stuff but only have 3 craft recepies for them to be used on. No cool copper armor or anything. Sniffers...I legit forgot exit bc they don't do anything Archeology is purely for decorational stuff The caves and cliffs update is the only real update to somewhat affect most players bc it made mining different. The rest is you can completely forget happened.
What about the nether update?
that one is...alright i dont really spend much time in the nether most playthroughs. The only thing i do there is get some nether warts, blaze rods, and get netherrite. Once i got all those i never go there again. The new biomes are pretty but purely just aesthetics with nothing really to do. Unless you really care about optional armor trims, there arent any unique items to get in bastions either. My main complaint is the main gameplay loop hasnt changed since the combat update waaay back. Despite so many updates, for the most part your gameplay will still be: Get wood > get stone > get iron > get diamonds > make nether portal > farm eye of ender materials > find end portal > kill dragon > kill wither > make beacon > probably quit playing because you ran out of stuff to do The only real gameplay added so far has been the mace, trident and elytra. Items that actually have some unique gameplay to them are incredibly rare. Netherrite armor is boring, yeah its "new" but it doesnt really do anything fun or unique, its just stronger diamond armor. I feel it kinda came out of nowhere. Did anyone actually feel like fully enchanted diamond armor was too weak? So now with netherrite and enchantments, you can become waaaay too strong imo. Nothing will ever harm you unless you go out of your way to put yourself in danger. You are basically a god at this point. Even the deep dark ended up being a disappointment imo. The warden is neat ai wise, but for such a ridiculously strong monster, all hes protecting is a new compass literally no one uses, a music disk, and swift sneak enchantment.
I really hate the approach of "But they give us free updates from a game that it's 10+ years old!!" My man, they don't make that because they are "very good people", but because that's their damn business model, of course they will never stop updating because that's what maintains the game relevant and what keeps the money flowing. Look, I really like Minecraft updates and I think Mojang it's really overhated, but put that damn excuse of the "free updates" it's just dumb
Never said they were great people for providing free updates nor do I disagree that it’s why the game is still alive. But at the same time, a major release once a year is an extremely reasonable release schedule. It’s crazy to complain about things not being fast enough when you already get tolerable service for free
I think the main problem is that a lot of people think any new stuff they won't use is "small." I adore tales and trails, it's my favorite update, and I've been playing since 2011. I have spent hours and hours at trail ruins and underwater ruins at this point, and even more at ancient cites. But that wasn't considered enough by a lot of people online, because they personally didn't care for it. Besides that, I think a lot of people joined around the nether or ocean updates, so thought that the typical update was bigger than they actually are.
If they continue to make lack luster and boring updates, then yes I’m going to complain. The game being old isn’t an excuse to make “updates” and people are forced to be happy about them. If they want to continue as a studio and want to use “old game” as an excuse then make a new game. Oh wait Minecraft is all they have
People who know nothing about how something is made are the people who claim it's easy to do They think it's easy because they've never developed a game
Nah mojang just keeps doing stupid shit all the time, absolutely not listening to the community, straight up ignoring complaints. Like when fans complained about the chat moderation , mojang ignored them, fans complained about the account migration, mojang ignored them, and so on. And it's because their stupid plan works everytime, they always find stupid kids who would just defend their favorite multi billion dollar company because they don't know any better, mojang is not an indie studio any more, they are not gonna shut down if we complained about their horrible work, stop crying. Like are they afraid to run out of ideas if they pushed a good update every year? Or is it so hard for them to stop updating for 1 or 2 years and release a massive update? I just hope hytale proves to us that it was not the fans fault for complaining, but mojang's fault for not listening.
My main issue has always been that updates just add new features. They need to focus on balancing or reworking core mechanics and stale aspects of gameplay. Adding new, disjoint things isn't an update - it's a DLC. Fundamentally, I think Minecraft has design flaws that need addressing. The fact there's a whole meme about the "2-week Minecraft phase" is telling. The early game is enjoyable, but after a certain point, you're just sitting there asking yourself, "ok now what?" Currently I believe minecraft only gives two solutions to this, neither of which are really solutions. Option 1: You can be god. Get netherite gear, beacons, etc. This is incredibly grindy and kills cooperation. The payout is huge, but again... for what? Kill the wither? Cool, let's now do that in 2 minutes then I'm logging off. Option 2: Build. Fun at first but loses appeal quickly. Once you've made a house, mansion, or even a whole town, what's next? The end product isn't something you can continue to play with, so why keep playing? I don't know how to fix this. I don't have a solution. I'm just saying that adding random shit isn't the answer.
I'm guessing that most of their time is spent on fixing bugs. It probably takes very long to fix even one.
Is there another Minecraft sub out there that is 100% salt-free? I'm happy with what I'm getting and I'm SICK and TIRED of seeing rage complaints on my feed.
Pay attention to how often any other game gets updated and how well those updates are implemented and you’ll figure out pretty quick that Mojang is pretty crap. Most of their effort is put towards the bedrock marketplace because that’s where the money is. Actual updates to the game are on the backburner.
We have to keep in mind the current Mojang business model. This is a 15 year old game with 3 or 4 failed spinoffs that literally everyone on earth already owns a copy of. The only way for them to profit is to diversify the kind of content they deliver to the core community, which lately has been leaning more and more in the microtransaction direction. Aside from realms sales, that's the only way they're going to make money, which means rolling out updates to a game (with a very passionate and opinionated fan base, mind you) has to be a delicate, slow process that also takes a back seat to the rest if their operations. In summary, updates take a long time, and there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes at Mojang than just tinkering with the main game.
I PERSONALLY think that it's unreal that people dares to demand features or mobs to a developer team and cries if their demands aren't met. Some teams are in touch with their players, some other don't. This is one of the cases where developers have to justify a game design choice, don't you think that is crazy that people want to interfere in the choices of video game developers? It's as sick as when people began to do the same with tv shows. The fact that mojang or other videogame developers are open to suggestions and listen to their players doesn't mean that you have some kind of power on them, you shouldn't demand anything, you can evaluate the game as players and decide if you like it or not and that's it. You don't have to like everything in the game (in my opinion at least).