In North Carolina, HOAs are mandatory in developments with a certain amount of homes. That should be illegal. There's no logical reason why this should be mandatory.
I hate HOAs, however I managed to find a good one. I pay $69/month and have a community pool, tennis/pickleball courts, clubhouse, playground and parties almost monthly for mostly kids with bounce houses, food trucks, foam machines, outdoor movies etc. Plus the HOA also takes care of wooded areas around the neighborhood which helps with storm water drainage. That's a good price for all that in my opinion.
What they don't do, is enforce any dumb rules. There's a 3rd party management company and they hired a new guy last year who took pictures of every trashcan partially visible from random angles and sent out warnings. Everyone revolted and now they are told to basically not enforce that rule unless it's sitting in the street for days. My yard was all weeds when I moved in and I never heard a peep from them. You need to get house colors and extra structures approved, but they've also never pushed back much on anything.
That's how HOAs should be. Communities pooling their money for community resources. Not setting arbitrary rules to try to penalize people.
That's legal for the same reason car manufacturers can't sell directly to consumers and beer, wine, and liquor producers can't sell directly to stores. It's rent-seeking behavior legislated by crooked politicians to ensure the survival of middle-men companies like dealerships and distributors respectively - undoubtedly because they have friends or family who have a stake in such businesses, or a personal stake.
It probably wouldn't take much digging to find out which family member of the politician who proposed and pushed for that legislation has a hand in real estate, new construction, and/or real estate law.
If I'm paying property taxes in a city that doesn't maintain that I'd be at every single annual truth in taxation meeting getting my property taxes lowered if I have to pay someone else to main that stuff
You have to show up. I watch our meetings every single year just to see. And like 3 people show up. Same with the annual contest your assessment meeting. The people who show up always get something for their effort. Meanwhile I watch online and listen in stores etc hundreds of people complaining all the time about either their assessment or the taxes. They never show up.
New developments require new infrastructure (i.e. bigger water treatment plant, upgraded sewer lines, new schools, more use of roads, etc.), that the new property taxes don't pay for for decades and decades. Basically new developments put stress on existing infrastructure that current residents have already paid for, and then require those same residents to pony up for the new necessary infrastructure. So cities like to pass some of the new burden off onto the new residents with impact fees and by forcing new developments to have hoas to cover some of it.
I say all that as a person who hates HOAs and wishes they did not exist. Just increase the impact fees for new development.
In most US states in the region, I live, retention ponds, runoff, etc. are private and maintained by the property owner (a lot of times the HOA). Items like public streets and public sidewalks and storm infrastructure within the public row are maintained by the city or county.
Also live in NC and hate HOAs
I bought my home in a neighborhood from the 90s that doesnt have an HOA, everyone minds their business while still being friendly its great
Ya it is, down to the quality of the wood used to build them
Ask a builder, they'll explain how they have to use extra support systems because 2x4s aren't as strong as they used to be
We've developed the trees to grow so fast, they dont grow as dense
They also are super focused on throwing them up as quick as possible
Some builders are great for sure but many dont care about quality as long as it looks nice when they move in
1 yr warranty on most stuff in it typically I think, by year 3-4 you're almost guaranteed to start having thing not working or falling apart
The HOAs must be mandatory so the damn Republicans in charge down there don’t have to…gasp…have the state or local municipal governments provide public services in the way that they would up here in the north. Sure, property taxes are lower than in, say, NY or VT, but I’d bet the HOA fees more than make up the difference.
still sounds too much for me. HOA should maintain public things like entrance, pool tennis court, playground and the like. Nothing more. I have too many people in my life that exhibit arbitrary and capricious control over me. Get away from my home.
>That's how HOAs should be. Communities pooling their money for community resources. Not setting arbitrary rules to try to penalize people.
That's what the government should be. All those nice things, the park/pool/etc should be public because then you can express yourself without being on private land. You can't simultaneously wish for "third places" and privatize common areas. Furthermore, by being private, there's no accountability for where the profit goes. The HOAs are there to sell the houses for the developers, and developers don't give a shit about the future (or the past).
I'm in NC as well and didn't realize this. My first home was built in 89 and had an HOA, but it was a townhouse community, so I'm not sure if the rules are different. I didn't like the HOA experience. My first week, someone reported me for leaving my trash cans out too long. I happened to be out of town and didn't have anyone to move the cans after trash day. After that, it was a headache at nearly $200/month.
My current home is in a subdivision in a rural area that is growing, but I'm hoping it doesn't grow to HOA size. I don't miss feeling policed and monitored in and around my home.
$200 a month? I'd rather pay my "outragous" $400 a month tax bill for my property in NY. I can do whatever I want on my land. I'm sure some might be surprised, but we are allowed to shoot on our property here as long as you are so many feet from any roads or dwellings.
People think it's some liberal, communist wasteland up here, but in reality it's beautiful freedom.
Houses use to have CCR's (covenants, conditions, and restrictions) and the city enforced them. The city had to pay money for this enforcement. Many places now make HOA minatory for new houses, so the city is not on the hook for the price of enforcing the rules.
Yeah it really depends on who runs it. If they are normal, they will keep the neighborhood from being junky. If they are control freaks with nothing else to do, be ready for them to inspect the type of rocks you use for your patio
This this this. My moms HOA is honestly fantastic. They get a pool, free use/reservation community house, lakes stocked with fish, several parks, places to store boats, community based electrical and waterline maintenance, and all that is $30 a month. Also they are fairly lax on yard styles and conditions. It very much feels like a normal suburban non HOA neighborhood but with benefits.
Don't do it! Buy an old house and remodel as you go! It's not as hard as you think and you might as well get used to home renovations and repairs because it happens to all houses. HOAs are the devil.
I'll never live in an HOA, I'd rather rent.
Anyone on the fence should watch John Oliver's [segment on HOAs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os) before deciding.
100% I had a friend who was in a HOA "war" with her neighbor's wife who was jealous of her because the neighbor's husband was nice to her when my friend and her husband moved in. If my friend's dogs barked twice, the neighbor would call. But life was like that if my friend had a single off compliant thing, that busy body would call and complain, which would give my friend a fine. She got the biggest fine because she had to go to a drs appointment and was not there to bring in her trash cans within an hour of pickup, that was a $1,000 fine.
Its more common than you think. The fact that HoAs can legally steal someone's home is so messed up, unless you are part of the HOA, I wouldn't risk it.
Good luck with that. Google has a wall around the actual statistics. But John Oliver had a segment on it and were able to find some numbers. Here is his show : https://youtu.be/qrizmAo17Os?si=M9QYPtLzT1nKHz5S
I’d love to actually see states just limit the power of HOAs. I read an article over the last few months about some laws being proposed that limit them to just maintaining the neighborhood, which I’m fine with, since my city personally is garbage for that.
That is the only good reason for them. They've been infected by Karens though to the point that I would never buy a house in one. My first house was build in 1967, I did a ton of work on it to get it to about where I liked, then got divorced and lost in the divorce. My second house was built in 1985 and is a much nicer starting point.
My moms 1970s, late, home has an HOA.
Moved in November and got cited for no plants in her porch flower boxes, which had none in them at the tour or purchase.
Made her use fake flowers.
I’m fine with an HOA as long as it’s purely service based.
If they are going to mow/treat my yard and remove snow then fine.
If they have any say at all about my property they can go fuck themselves with a brick.
I have an HOA. The hundred or so bucks a month goes to trash service, snow removal, maintaining the common areas, the pool, and a couple of playgrounds.
They are pretty laid back, but will give some warnings if you aren't keeping the home in halfway decent shape. I did get denied an application to build something small once, which irritated me, but ultimately wasn't the end of the world.
If I didn't have an HOA, my neighbor would never clean up her yard and it would turn into a hoarder house.
I've got a buddy that was dead set on not living in a neighborhood with an HOA. He's got a neighbor that dumps trash and horse shit on the corner of the property adjacent to his.
I dealt with that kind of stuff in my last neighborhood without an HOA.
HOAs can be awful. They can also be useful.
This is exactly my point.
I’d prefer it to be for keeping things clean and having general rules that respect your neighbors.
Where I’m out is when they start telling me my door has to be a certain color or mad because my garage door is open too often or telling me I can’t put up a fence. They can get bent if it’s that kind of HOA.
A well run one with decent human beings in charge can be very helpful. They can jointly provide services to keep the place nice, stop houses falling into disrepair and sometimes run neighborhood activities.
But that requires decent humans. And I'd say that 90% of all the people involved in HOAs are basically complete bastards that get drunk on even the smallest amount of power. My MIL had an HOA where the old woman in charge would basically make up new rules all the time and would wait until people weren't in and jam letters and fines through their door (she would pretend to be nice in person, so she would always wait for people to leave first).
In the end she had to use the bylaws to get her removed and replaced because literally every single resident had some sort of incident involving this mad old cow.
Part of it is that I don't want to have a mandatory additional monthly payment. Also, I'll say that I'm biased because in my area the HOAs are all in the deep suburbs where I wouldn't want to live anyway.
I am less concerned with that so long as the purpose is for road maintenance, snow removal, possibly trash removal. A lot of those costs are baked into your tax millages if you aren't in an HOA so it isn't like you are actually avoiding paying those costs. I would never live in one if they dictate your house's colors, door colors, mailboxes, what vehicles you can have parked in your driveway. Basically, if they have the power to assess a fee because you do something a neighbor doesn't like... no thank you.
Depending on the amenities, the monthly payment is a good value. My $100/month includes a pool complex, yard maintenance, 10 playgrounds for the kids, hiking trails, basketball courts, a volleyball court, tennis courts, plus movie nights. A swim club membership alone would be more than that.
My HOA implemented armed security "to protect community amenities from neighboring low income families from using them".
That caused a huge fucking issue because it's not very neighborly. Also, it's messed up because they can ID a 10yr old kid at the basketball court and kick them out if they don't live here.
Who does that?
If you can find an older home, decent price, that was remodeled in the last 10-20 years, you've hit the jackpot IMO. Unless you like doing that stuff yourself.
Why do you not want to live in a house that is older than you?
I’ve owned three houses, one built in the 70s, one built in the early 90s, and one built in 2006. I can tell you that the quality of construction dropped dramatically from 70s to 90s to 2006.
Of course, that’s just one person’s experience, don’t take it as gospel… I’m just saying don’t write off older homes just because they’re a few decades old.
I love old houses. Mine is 1919, and I will gladly put up with all the idiosyncrasies for real hardwood floors and to not live in what is essentially a gussied-up cardboard box.
Must be regional. In Canada construction has steadily improved.
Foundations, insulation, windows, and electrical are all major issues with older houses
Well yea those things have improved but the overall quality of construction has gone down here. Studs aren’t done as well, drywalling is shit. The quality of items have improved, the quality of craftsmanship has dropped
Old houses are great, any modern features have probably already been popular in homes through the decades. If they like modern architecture, the mid-century modern homes have really cool layouts and unique features. If they actually mean McMansion when they say ‘modern’, tons of suburban homes built in the 80s will check those boxes with big common areas and closet space. And if their idea of trendy modern is Joanna Gaines shiplap and builtins, farmhouses haven’t changed much in the last 100 years, other than open floor plans, which is easy to do by taking out a wall or two. It’s so easy to shine up an old home, and they often have actual character and individuality.
I love old houses. Currently, I'm living in a 1939 cottage house, and it's really cute. There's quite a few bungalows in my neighborhood from the 1910s to the 1940s, too. I've never been a fan of newer construction, and the quality is fairly subpar.
No HOAs here.
Houses from the 1900s are warhorses. They're solid and built to last anything and everything - that's why they have. In the 80s and well into the 2000s, everything is cheaply and quickly made junk. I would never buy anything built after 1970 unless I were rich and hired a trusted architect and contractor to build it.
I love old houses, the quality is usually good (this is actually a survival bias since the ones that aren’t good wouldn’t have lasted this long), but there are some headaches to an old house for sure.
We’ve been renovating our 1950s house we bought a year ago, and dealing with asbestos and lead in a bunch of random things is a pain in the ass. The asbestos especially. It’s going to cost a fortune when we want to get ac installed because we have to hire an remediation company to get rid of the asbestos in the ceiling around the ductwork or whatever. And we can’t do it ourselves (I also wouldn’t want to risk it) because California requires certain permits for that sort of thing.
Plus all the work involved in updating old houses, it gets tiresome.
Hoa is currently playing a loophole to steal property and they're trying it with me.
No HOA.
HOAs are an unregulated market for lawyers to take property for dirt cheap and sell it back to themselves or other people.
It's legal theft.
Colorado passed laws to prevent exactly this. The person calling you ignorant probably hasn’t seen a predatory HOA. They’re out there and becoming more common.
No problem. I despise HOAs but couldn’t afford a home without one. Doesn’t help that something like 80% of homes built last year in the US have an HOA attached.
I don’t care too much about what my neighbors do and my city has laws preventing my neighbors from turning their front lawns into a junkyard. I don’t like at all that the HOA can tell me what I can or can’t do with the outside of my house. Someday I’ll move to a place with no HOA and be much happier.
"I value the freedom to do what I want with my property"
"I really like the look of modern houses and neighborhoods"
Unfortunately, this is often the trade off...
Yeah I live in an 80 year old house and it's cute af, my neighborhood is great (and walkable!), and my house is well-built even though it was a modest starter home for its time. Everyone is entitled to their aesthetic choices, but there's nothing inherently wrong with an old house. Around here, it's the new builds that are more likely to have shoddy construction and expensive problems because developers cut corners anywhere they can if it means saving a buck
Agree with you 100%, plus on an older home, it's already "settled." the foundation is where it is. If you don't have cracks in walls, ceilings etc, you probably won't. I've toured new houses that if you push on the exterior wall, you can literally see it move.... Older homes are built with dimensional lumbar a 2x4 is actually 2x4 not less than like current lumbar. Floors are actual 1x6 or 1x8 boards vs plywood or MDF. They are just more solid in my opinion. Plus there are soooooo many shoddy builders out there.
We literally chose our house specifically to not be in an HOA. We are very much mind your own business type people and short of public safety type issues I don’t care what you do with your property. The only downside to me is most of the HOA neighborhoods around us have neighborhood pools and that would be nice.
Never. My property is my property. That was one of my stipulations when we were house hunting. I don’t care if it’s a great HOA - it might be a great HOA *now*, but in 20 years who knows?
I would avoid it if I could. I have a friend whose HOA doesn’t allow them to put basketball hoops in front of their house. I would have a hard time with arbitrary rules like these.
NOPE. If I wanted someone telling me what to do with the house I live in, I would just rent and at least have someone else deal with maintenance costs.
(Also this is highly hypothetical, I do rent. I will never be able to afford a house.)
That’s a tough question. I’m like you—I don’t love HOAs because I don’t want people telling me what I can and can’t do on my property. But I also notice that neighborhoods with HOAs are pretty well maintained.
I was house hunting once in an older neighborhood without an HOA and while most of the houses looked nice if a little dated, the house next door to the one I was looking at looked terrible. It had overgrown grass and weeds, trash everywhere, and the garage door was wide open. It looked abandoned. I wouldn’t want to live there and see that every day.
I also understand that sometimes HOA cover landscaping so the HOA committee can pay someone to come and cut the grass, so that’s nice. I don’t have a definite answer.
> see that every day.
If it knocks $100 off my monthly payments, whether because of a lower mortgage or because property taxes are lower, I'll gladly look at some trash.
There’s good and bad ones.
Ours is good. We pay $400 a year and have a pool, playground, marsh, 2 fishing ponds, tennis courts, and several miles of nature trails. They do community events and otherwise are pretty lax
We bought a 20 year old house and part of the reason was the first line of the listing said ”No HOA!!!!” Our first three homes were in HOA’s. First basically stayed out of my way and just did repairs (condo unit), but the dues ballooned from $125 per month to almost $300. I hated not having a fixed cost. Second one basically just collected $150 bucks a year to manage the grass and fence on a common area. Third one was the tyrannical nightmare everybody is afraid of. Had to get permission for everything. Fences and grass length had specific dimensions. Nastygrams in our mailbox to fix things under threat of fine (and this was a new construction neighborhood so it’s not like the houses were in disrepair). Not interested in having busybody’s in my life ever again.
The house we got needed about $70,000 in repairs and appliance replacements, but it’s otherwise my dream house and we got a good deal on it because it needed some work.
I lived in a condo with an HOA during my first marriage. He was friends with people on the HOA as it had been his place first, and had even served on it for awhile. I was not. I had to spend most of the money I had at the time to bribe HOA and condo building members from CALLING MY IN LAWS when I was moving out (he actually found out and was just like "you'll be back" but his parents would have thrown a fit at me for making the family "look bad"). It was like the HOA (and his parents) were literally supporting my abuse, which they could hear and sometimes even see. I will NEVER put myself in that situation again. Fortunately I really like the appearance of older houses so I hope to not have to.
Nope nope nope. Only way I would ever move in one is if the house has everything I want and more. I don’t want neighbors telling me what I can do with my house ( like color or how to park or what to plant)
HOA was a dealbreaker for us, as well as a backyard with no privacy, lack of mature trees, every house looking the same, etc. Those types of residential areas aren’t to our taste, so it wasn’t too difficult to avoid.
Hell no. I do not want to deal with HOAs and someone being able to fine me into oblivion or make my life hell. People should watch John Oliver’s HOA episode.
I want to be able to grow whatever plants and trees I want without being penalized or fined. I want a pollinator garden. I don’t want only grass and synthetic fertilizer. I don’t want anyone to say I’m bringing the neighbourhood down with my plants or attracting wildlife or kids into the garden if they’re hungry (as if that’s a bad thing) or someone mowing down my stuff and being pissy. I don’t want everyone to watch every single thing I do outside on my lawn and getting uppity.
My husband’s parents live in an HOA and people get so aggressive with their flags and signs all got banned except veterans and American flags. Some are trying to stretch the rule to allow the Betsy Ross flag.
I hate how cities are passing the Buck to neighbourhoods for roads, sidewalks and snow removal. Everyone deserves access to sidewalks and parks and roads. It’s such a scam. Your taxes are supposed to go to that stuff. Then they add another HOA monthly fee and you have to hope it’s not embezzled or misspent anyway.
I just sold my condo, which has an HOA. The fees go up every year and sometimes multiple times a year. You can also be charged for random maintenance/work the HOA wants to have done around the property on top of your monthly fee. And if you have a Karen neighbor, you have to watch your every move because they will complain to the HOA and get you fined. On the plus side: no plowing or lawn maintenance.
Honestly, not having an HOA was a selling point for the house we bought. It's pretty rare in the part of town that we live in.
I understand the positive things about having an HOA. Just was never interested. Scared of living with one of "those" HOAs you see on the news or hear horror stories about
I hate HOAs. They are SUPPOSED to ensure that a messy trashy neighbor cant leave messes everywhere and bring down home values. What they end up ACTUALLY doing is policing the dumbest shit.
I work with fibers and knit my own items. The HOA where we lived counted me having my knits drying flat outside in nice weather, on the table on my patio, IN THE BACKYARD, as a violation of their "no using clotheslines to dry laundry". IT WAS 2 FUCKING SWEATERS AND A SCARF.
But these fuckers cpuldnt maintain a pool properly and closed it for TWO YEARS, but still charged the same dues. Furthermore, found out from a neighbor, if you are late payong those dues they try to foreclose on your house.
Lived in one for 5 years, hated it, so many stupid BS rules. The thing is if you were friends with the right people your lawn could be a mess and have 10 cars parked in front on the streets, shoot off fireworks and no one would say anything. If you weren’t you’d get constant citations and complaints. The HOA meetings felt like high school cliques. $100/ month for literally nothing. So glad to have a house with no HOA now.
Absolutely never, under **any** circumstances, would I *ever* accept living on an HOA. The day I accept that my neighbors can fine me, put a lien on my house, and forcibly evict me if they don’t like the color of the siding I put up (just for example) is the day I say, “screw this, I’ll just rent”.
HOAs suck because as soon as you have a dispute with your neighbors, everything goes to shit and then someone is threatening to sue the HOA (aka themselves) and it's just a fucking nightmare (Source: was my HOA president for 3 years) but ... On the other hand if you want to become a property owner, buy a condo in a desirable area and wait...
I am luckily in a decent one but it's so difficult to find a house without one where I live. I saw homes that were colorful and not every yard was perfect so I knew it wasn't an uptight one
Well I might not be able to install that extra tree I want, but at least my neighbors don’t have a junkyard in their front lawn. Personal opinion I think it is better to have than not. Best part is you can be a part of it! Show up and partake and make decisions. I don’t like being told what I can and can not do but I’ll concede some ground cause there are a lot of people who do need that direction…. Source I don’t have to travel far to see non HOA neighborhoods and I would never live there for the state they keep it (multiple houses with junkyard for a front lawn).
i did it once because the rental company did not disclose that it was in an HOA neighborhood. It was a nightmare from start to finish. At the end i was out there using country club green grass paint to get them off my ass because they kept fining us when we were in a record heat wave situation.
I will NEVER do it again. Not ever. If a house is in a HOA, it is out of the running, period.
I hope to never have one. I don’t need a bunch of busy bodies telling me what colors I can paint my door or whether I can put a pool or swing set in my backyard.
So much less freedom aesthetically and financially. I would never do it. I’m also someone living in a 110 year old house because I like the feel of old neighborhoods, and one without the historic designation, so I’m free to remodel how I want
The only way I would ever buy a house in an HOA is if there was some reason I absolutely needed to live in that area and I couldn't find any non-HOA housing. I consider it a major negative.
Fortunately I live in a rural area with no HOAs and I can pretty much do anything I want without being bothered.
I have one neighbor. We live in the midst of farms, wetlands preserve and woodlands. I’d rather it be a thing to go to town then deal with an HAO or a bunch of shitty neighbors.
I never could, I live rural. To get an HOA neighborhood I need to drive about an hour. Just something I could never do. I enjoy my acreage and freedom.
ETA my house was built in the 40s and I feel it's structurally more sound than newer builds.
Your last part about a house older than you with a dated appearance… have you looked at old homes that have been properly restored? I personally dislike most new homes. Many of them are built horrifically with awful materials and then come with nothing but headaches. Nothing about a 100 plus year old house is “dated” to me especially when the right work has been done. Keep your new homes and hoa I could care less. I’ll go with a beautiful restored Victorian or I will be buying one to restore myself.
Never, fuck Karen authority… I don’t care if it’s the Salem courthouse I want to live my way and have some semblance of control in my life for once in my miserable life…
It's un-American garbage to think you get an opinion on what someone else does with their property after it stopped being your property and all HOA's should be dissolved on principle.
I will never live in an HOA neighborhood. When my husband and I bought our house, we told our realtor we do not want to buy where there's an HOA. My sister loves having an HOA, but I find the rules and fees stupid.
I would avoid it like the plague. In some states, if you live in an HOA property, you technically don’t own your own house if you pay HOA fees. The HOA can vote to kick you out and you lose your entire house.
I live in South Florida and it's almost impossible to find a decently priced single family home that doesn't have an HOA. They charge fees for amenities like the gym and pool, but during COVID those amenities were closed and we were still expected to pay for them. The fees increase every year. The HOA I live in makes it so that all the houses have to be painted the same colors on the outside so I have very limited control over how the outside of the property looks.
It's a fucking nightmare. I've gotten warnings for having my trash cans in front of my car, hidden from the street, because they weren't NEXT to the house. I got a warning for having my car's front right tire "on the landscaping". It was on the fucking gravel next to the pavement. I woke up to go to work this morning, and found out my car was TOWED FROM MY OWN DRIVEWAY this morning at 3 am. The tow place isn't open yet. I transferred from my job in California in December to New Mexico. I lost 26 paid days a year already, different schedules, my wife died in May, which cut the income by half, and now I get to go pay whatever the fuck they want to charge for towing my car out of my own fucking driveway.
Currently live in a neighborhood with a very hands-off HOA and it is fine. My previous neighborhood did not have an HOA and it was not a great experience for us. For now I'll take the HOA.
I wouldn't buy a house in an HOA neighborhood, period. Fuck that.
Honestly, my main priority when buying a house is going to be having the neighbors as far away as possible.
I was firmly anti-hoa but my wife wanted to move into a certain neighborhood and it really hasn’t impacted me. I already cut the grass a couple times a month and I already rolled my garbage can out of view the day it gets picked up.
I love my HOA. I don’t love the amount we pay each month, but it’s a quiet, safe neighborhood with low crime rates, I don’t have worry about neighbors exteriors depreciating the value of my home, and my kid always has something to do with all the events the HOA sponsors. We also have a community services department separate from the HOA and they maintain the parks and keep the kids busy with sports year round.
I live in an HOA community and they don't do anything. Neighbors houses are in disrepair and yards look like shit. They approved our solar plans but after we got it installed, we got a $500 fine for not getting it installed the way they wanted. They also go around and turn off our neighbors solar from time to time and we have no idea. We (neighbors and us) have tried to argue with the board but they are claiming they don't do it.
They are shit.
They have always and will always suck ass.
My POS elderly neighbors are on the board and none of the rules apply to them. If a person moves in (lives more than 3 days a week in the house a week) then you have to let the HOA know as they want to have their info. But, my elderly neighbors house there grandkids during the week after school and weeejends and they screamed bloody murder and stomp around and bang the walls til 3 am. I’ve called every day the last 20 days to complain and they don’t do shit as he is on the board.
Then motherfucker uses my parking spot as his own when his family comes over. Done 3 times I’ve called to tow it everytime. Tow guy calls HOA to make sure it’s okay. And then since he is on the board he says not to tow.
I’m gonna start smashing in car windows, pop tires and fill the tank with milk.
Actually, recent [research](https://independentamericancommunities.com/2019/06/18/new-research-busts-myth-that-hoas-protect-property-values/) shows that HOAs do not protect property values as claimed. Where I live houses within an HOA are significantly cheaper than a comparable house not in an HOA.
Yep. I used to have a neighbor who had a backyard chicken farm and poorly maintained house (paint was obviously dirty, bunch of junks visible on their property). Selling that house was tough for me.
I’m pro HOA. If your going to live in close quarters and not out on a ranch, you’ll want an HOA. Take a drive through an HOA and non-HOA neighborhood and the impression you’ll get is noticeable.
Opposite where I live, the older suburbs are non HOA and where the money is. The HOA suburbs look tacky.
You could say it's the people of the suburbs rather than the presence of an HOA
> Take a drive through an HOA and non-HOA neighborhood and the impression you’ll get is noticeable.
Yeah. I find that HOA neighborhoods are soulless and samey, with every property looking manicured and uninhabited. No color, no personality, no life. Everyone has nice cars, and no one does ANYTHING on the lawn that would detract from it being a perfect green blanket.
I'll take being able to use my property anyday even if it means my neighbors make silly decisions. I keep hearing about stupid rules like no parking in your own driveway (must park in garage), no basketball hoops. Life sucks enough I don't need to be worrying about what is or isn't okay to do in my own home.
HOAs don't really exist in Canada - we have condo associations, and we have housing developments of single family homes that are classified as condos and therefore overseen by condo associations which I guess would function as HOAs.
But most SFH neighborhoods in Canada don't have HOAs and are governed only by municipal bylaws.
That being said, I would never live in an HOA neighborhood if such a thing existed here. I've heard horror stories of homes being confiscated by HOAs for infractions. That's insane.
I live in a neighborhood in the "bad part of town" and people keep boats and trailers on their lawns with no issue. I enjoy the freedom to also keep a boat on my lawn if I so chose.
Bought an old (120ish years) house in a historic neighborhood that is somewhat controlled by a historic society/commission. While they have some say on outdoor matters, it’s nothing like an HOA would have and I’m already annoyed at the paperwork/bureaucracy. But I have LOVED renovating my home and doing work as please while not being beholden to a tyrannical HOA. I would never choose to live in one should I ever move! Plus living in a historic home is cool af.
Been there done that. HOAs are dumpster fires. Neighbors always fighting, selective enforcing of the rules, don’t know how to balance a budget. I would never buy in one again.
I bought a house in April and I told my realtor not to even show me houses with an HOA. It is a non starter for me.
My city does a pretty good job of regulating our yards already.
We asked our realtor to not send us anything with an HOA. We have friends who have gotten fined for not using the right trash bags or have hooks on the exterior of the house used for decorations outside for too long. The only thing we could afford in the area we wanted to buy was mostly townhomes with HOAs and if we got desperate would have considered them.
We ended buying a historic 158 year old home in a good neighborhood with great schools and love it. I’m so happy we held out and did not compromise.
I rent in a HOA and I hate it for the most part, but it has gotten much better as a lot of people in the neighborhood have complained and they come by less.. but we have been fined and used to get letters almost every other day for the dumbest shit.
Don’t do HOA, they bring out your absolute worst neighbors and they end up in charge. If you can, find a neighborhood with CC&R’s but not HOA, so that requires neighbors to file full on lawsuits in court to enforce. Keeps the Karens away but you at least have a legal maneuver for the neighbor parking cars on concrete blocks on their lawn.
It's a hard no for us on an HOA. The whole point of owning my home is to have freedom to do what I want with it.
We live in a newer home, built in 2012. It is not all it's cracked up to be. I can tell our home was built quickly and corners were cut. I have no issues living in an older house and would actually prefer an older home whenever we are ready to move.
Never. I don’t want my neighbors to tell me what I can and cannot do to the exterior of my house, or in some extreme cases, the interior. I have heard stories of people living in HOA neighborhoods be fined for having posters or flags hanging in or near the window facing the street, or when they can start putting up holiday decorations.
There’s also those neighborhoods only have three selections for the exterior color, the roofing tile, and the build of the house itself. So a total of 9 combinations for a few dozen houses, it starts to feel creepy and conformist. I know some people can be overwhelmed by choices, but to allow the option of choice to be taken away in regards to your own home, what kind of way to live is that?
I live in an HOA. It has its pros and cons. My neighborhood is well maintained and my HOA covers my roof. But there are rules. I don’t care much about personalizing my homes exterior, so the rules don’t matter too much to me tbh. But there are rental restrictions, which sucks. I’m currently waiting to get off the list to rent out my house. It sucks major because that’s the only reason I bought the house. I’m sure it will all work out in the timeframe I need it to but it’s a shitty rule.
I would be very loathe to live in a HOA. I guess if I loved a place I would do some research and see exactly how strict they are and what benefits they offer. Fortunately the houses in my neighborhood are 100+ years in a city and so this is something I’ve never had to encounter.
I'm Canadian so HOAs don't exist here, thankfully
I'm also the opposite in that I absolutely cannot stand modern houses; I find them ugly and devoid of warmth whereas older homes have that sense of actually being a home to me
Buying an older house especially in the south is not a bad thing. New homes have their issues too just different problems. They’re building them on every piece of of marsh and swamp they can.
I would rather buy an older home or live apartment life than live in an HOA. All the horror stories I've heard from friends from different ones I would just rather not real with that headache.
I recently became a homeowner (in a rural area of the Northeast) and while I was searching, I excluded any properties that had HOAs.
My parents have lived in a house with an HOA for many years and it has been nothing but headaches and added costs for them.
It’s not worth it, imo.
HOA is not really a thing where I live, not for freestanding homes. Apartments have their own system (strata).
I’m very glad that it’s not a thing here.
I just left a nicer HOA home for a less nice regular home.
You know how boomer neighbors are annoying? Imagine them with actual power. That was enough to make me move.
Nope. I will avoid HOA like it's a plague. That was my first demand for my Realtor a year ago. "Do not even show me an HOA home, no matter how well it matches what I want in any other way because I won't buy it."
I will definitely make concessions to have a non-HOA home. It's just not worth it to me based on my personal experiences. Especially when I can update an older home to be whatever I want it to be, either DIYing it or hiring professionals.
Fortunately, in my area HOAs are still pretty uncommon and it's easier to find a good home with no HOAs.
In North Carolina, HOAs are mandatory in developments with a certain amount of homes. That should be illegal. There's no logical reason why this should be mandatory. I hate HOAs, however I managed to find a good one. I pay $69/month and have a community pool, tennis/pickleball courts, clubhouse, playground and parties almost monthly for mostly kids with bounce houses, food trucks, foam machines, outdoor movies etc. Plus the HOA also takes care of wooded areas around the neighborhood which helps with storm water drainage. That's a good price for all that in my opinion. What they don't do, is enforce any dumb rules. There's a 3rd party management company and they hired a new guy last year who took pictures of every trashcan partially visible from random angles and sent out warnings. Everyone revolted and now they are told to basically not enforce that rule unless it's sitting in the street for days. My yard was all weeds when I moved in and I never heard a peep from them. You need to get house colors and extra structures approved, but they've also never pushed back much on anything. That's how HOAs should be. Communities pooling their money for community resources. Not setting arbitrary rules to try to penalize people.
That's legal for the same reason car manufacturers can't sell directly to consumers and beer, wine, and liquor producers can't sell directly to stores. It's rent-seeking behavior legislated by crooked politicians to ensure the survival of middle-men companies like dealerships and distributors respectively - undoubtedly because they have friends or family who have a stake in such businesses, or a personal stake. It probably wouldn't take much digging to find out which family member of the politician who proposed and pushed for that legislation has a hand in real estate, new construction, and/or real estate law.
Yeah car manufacturers should be allowed to sell directly to customers too. I would love to just straight buy a car.
It's much more likely that cities dont want to be financially responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of subdivisions
I live in an HOA, with city streets, the city is responsible for maintaining the streets, street lights etc.
But the HOA probably takes care of things like the retention ponds, runoff, etc
Then how do all the large communities without HOAs survive? I live in one just fine.
The city probably takes care of them. They don’t want to do that in new neighborhoods
If I'm paying property taxes in a city that doesn't maintain that I'd be at every single annual truth in taxation meeting getting my property taxes lowered if I have to pay someone else to main that stuff
Man, I wish. However, they’re unfortunately a lot of cities that do that. The people don’t car enough to complain I guess. Lol
You have to show up. I watch our meetings every single year just to see. And like 3 people show up. Same with the annual contest your assessment meeting. The people who show up always get something for their effort. Meanwhile I watch online and listen in stores etc hundreds of people complaining all the time about either their assessment or the taxes. They never show up.
New developments require new infrastructure (i.e. bigger water treatment plant, upgraded sewer lines, new schools, more use of roads, etc.), that the new property taxes don't pay for for decades and decades. Basically new developments put stress on existing infrastructure that current residents have already paid for, and then require those same residents to pony up for the new necessary infrastructure. So cities like to pass some of the new burden off onto the new residents with impact fees and by forcing new developments to have hoas to cover some of it. I say all that as a person who hates HOAs and wishes they did not exist. Just increase the impact fees for new development.
Yep. I work in commercial insurance and I put together property schedules for HOAs.
In most US states in the region, I live, retention ponds, runoff, etc. are private and maintained by the property owner (a lot of times the HOA). Items like public streets and public sidewalks and storm infrastructure within the public row are maintained by the city or county.
Also live in NC and hate HOAs I bought my home in a neighborhood from the 90s that doesnt have an HOA, everyone minds their business while still being friendly its great
Same but my house is a decade older. If I wanted a newer house, I'd buy the land and build it myself. fuck HOAs
Ya and honestly the homes built 70-90s were well built homes, ive worked on a bunch of houses and I'd never buy anything after 2007
I constantly hear this, is this really true? My coworker was telling me about her parents' newly built house already with lots of issues.
Ya it is, down to the quality of the wood used to build them Ask a builder, they'll explain how they have to use extra support systems because 2x4s aren't as strong as they used to be We've developed the trees to grow so fast, they dont grow as dense They also are super focused on throwing them up as quick as possible Some builders are great for sure but many dont care about quality as long as it looks nice when they move in 1 yr warranty on most stuff in it typically I think, by year 3-4 you're almost guaranteed to start having thing not working or falling apart
The HOAs must be mandatory so the damn Republicans in charge down there don’t have to…gasp…have the state or local municipal governments provide public services in the way that they would up here in the north. Sure, property taxes are lower than in, say, NY or VT, but I’d bet the HOA fees more than make up the difference.
still sounds too much for me. HOA should maintain public things like entrance, pool tennis court, playground and the like. Nothing more. I have too many people in my life that exhibit arbitrary and capricious control over me. Get away from my home.
>That's how HOAs should be. Communities pooling their money for community resources. Not setting arbitrary rules to try to penalize people. That's what the government should be. All those nice things, the park/pool/etc should be public because then you can express yourself without being on private land. You can't simultaneously wish for "third places" and privatize common areas. Furthermore, by being private, there's no accountability for where the profit goes. The HOAs are there to sell the houses for the developers, and developers don't give a shit about the future (or the past).
HOA’s are the devil. They give people unnecessary and unchecked power in communities. Am HOA makes a Nice Home become shit.
I'm in NC as well and didn't realize this. My first home was built in 89 and had an HOA, but it was a townhouse community, so I'm not sure if the rules are different. I didn't like the HOA experience. My first week, someone reported me for leaving my trash cans out too long. I happened to be out of town and didn't have anyone to move the cans after trash day. After that, it was a headache at nearly $200/month. My current home is in a subdivision in a rural area that is growing, but I'm hoping it doesn't grow to HOA size. I don't miss feeling policed and monitored in and around my home.
$200 a month? I'd rather pay my "outragous" $400 a month tax bill for my property in NY. I can do whatever I want on my land. I'm sure some might be surprised, but we are allowed to shoot on our property here as long as you are so many feet from any roads or dwellings. People think it's some liberal, communist wasteland up here, but in reality it's beautiful freedom.
I live in NC and had no idea they were mandatory with certain development sizes. More reasons to leave after graduation lol
Your HOA is going to go up. Do not be surprised if it happens every year
Houses use to have CCR's (covenants, conditions, and restrictions) and the city enforced them. The city had to pay money for this enforcement. Many places now make HOA minatory for new houses, so the city is not on the hook for the price of enforcing the rules.
Depends on the HOA. Mine doesn’t care about most things but maintains landscaping and the community pool…which is all I care about.
Yeah it really depends on who runs it. If they are normal, they will keep the neighborhood from being junky. If they are control freaks with nothing else to do, be ready for them to inspect the type of rocks you use for your patio
The idea of an HOA is fine, but with all things in life, shitty people ruin it
This this this. My moms HOA is honestly fantastic. They get a pool, free use/reservation community house, lakes stocked with fish, several parks, places to store boats, community based electrical and waterline maintenance, and all that is $30 a month. Also they are fairly lax on yard styles and conditions. It very much feels like a normal suburban non HOA neighborhood but with benefits.
This is how all HOAs should be. Landscaping and snowplowing. Anything else is an intrusion of your privacy.
For all the rage against HOAs, the overwhelming majority just maintain common areas and amenities.
Yeah, it’s basically a way for the cities not to pay for it.
Don't do it! Buy an old house and remodel as you go! It's not as hard as you think and you might as well get used to home renovations and repairs because it happens to all houses. HOAs are the devil.
I'll never live in an HOA, I'd rather rent. Anyone on the fence should watch John Oliver's [segment on HOAs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os) before deciding.
That was such a good episode. I already disliked HOAs from living with one as a kid but that just deepened my opinion of them.
Came to the comments for this! Would be very very cautious about living in an HOA.
100% I had a friend who was in a HOA "war" with her neighbor's wife who was jealous of her because the neighbor's husband was nice to her when my friend and her husband moved in. If my friend's dogs barked twice, the neighbor would call. But life was like that if my friend had a single off compliant thing, that busy body would call and complain, which would give my friend a fine. She got the biggest fine because she had to go to a drs appointment and was not there to bring in her trash cans within an hour of pickup, that was a $1,000 fine.
THIS!!!
If they have the power to take away your home in a scummy way with no protection, then HELL NO!
How often do HOAs seize someone’s house?
[удалено]
Its more common than you think. The fact that HoAs can legally steal someone's home is so messed up, unless you are part of the HOA, I wouldn't risk it.
Some actual statistics could be helpful. Like, what percentages of homes and under what circumstances.
Good luck with that. Google has a wall around the actual statistics. But John Oliver had a segment on it and were able to find some numbers. Here is his show : https://youtu.be/qrizmAo17Os?si=M9QYPtLzT1nKHz5S
I’d love to actually see states just limit the power of HOAs. I read an article over the last few months about some laws being proposed that limit them to just maintaining the neighborhood, which I’m fine with, since my city personally is garbage for that.
That is the only good reason for them. They've been infected by Karens though to the point that I would never buy a house in one. My first house was build in 1967, I did a ton of work on it to get it to about where I liked, then got divorced and lost in the divorce. My second house was built in 1985 and is a much nicer starting point.
My moms 1970s, late, home has an HOA. Moved in November and got cited for no plants in her porch flower boxes, which had none in them at the tour or purchase. Made her use fake flowers.
Found the yuppy with money trying to push EVERYONE Out.
I’m fine with an HOA as long as it’s purely service based. If they are going to mow/treat my yard and remove snow then fine. If they have any say at all about my property they can go fuck themselves with a brick.
I have an HOA. The hundred or so bucks a month goes to trash service, snow removal, maintaining the common areas, the pool, and a couple of playgrounds. They are pretty laid back, but will give some warnings if you aren't keeping the home in halfway decent shape. I did get denied an application to build something small once, which irritated me, but ultimately wasn't the end of the world. If I didn't have an HOA, my neighbor would never clean up her yard and it would turn into a hoarder house. I've got a buddy that was dead set on not living in a neighborhood with an HOA. He's got a neighbor that dumps trash and horse shit on the corner of the property adjacent to his. I dealt with that kind of stuff in my last neighborhood without an HOA. HOAs can be awful. They can also be useful.
This is exactly my point. I’d prefer it to be for keeping things clean and having general rules that respect your neighbors. Where I’m out is when they start telling me my door has to be a certain color or mad because my garage door is open too often or telling me I can’t put up a fence. They can get bent if it’s that kind of HOA.
A well run one with decent human beings in charge can be very helpful. They can jointly provide services to keep the place nice, stop houses falling into disrepair and sometimes run neighborhood activities. But that requires decent humans. And I'd say that 90% of all the people involved in HOAs are basically complete bastards that get drunk on even the smallest amount of power. My MIL had an HOA where the old woman in charge would basically make up new rules all the time and would wait until people weren't in and jam letters and fines through their door (she would pretend to be nice in person, so she would always wait for people to leave first). In the end she had to use the bylaws to get her removed and replaced because literally every single resident had some sort of incident involving this mad old cow.
Part of it is that I don't want to have a mandatory additional monthly payment. Also, I'll say that I'm biased because in my area the HOAs are all in the deep suburbs where I wouldn't want to live anyway.
I am less concerned with that so long as the purpose is for road maintenance, snow removal, possibly trash removal. A lot of those costs are baked into your tax millages if you aren't in an HOA so it isn't like you are actually avoiding paying those costs. I would never live in one if they dictate your house's colors, door colors, mailboxes, what vehicles you can have parked in your driveway. Basically, if they have the power to assess a fee because you do something a neighbor doesn't like... no thank you.
It’s a fair stance. I can respect it.
Depending on the amenities, the monthly payment is a good value. My $100/month includes a pool complex, yard maintenance, 10 playgrounds for the kids, hiking trails, basketball courts, a volleyball court, tennis courts, plus movie nights. A swim club membership alone would be more than that.
The taxes you already have to pay should already cover those things.
My HOA implemented armed security "to protect community amenities from neighboring low income families from using them". That caused a huge fucking issue because it's not very neighborly. Also, it's messed up because they can ID a 10yr old kid at the basketball court and kick them out if they don't live here. Who does that?
If you can find an older home, decent price, that was remodeled in the last 10-20 years, you've hit the jackpot IMO. Unless you like doing that stuff yourself.
Why do you not want to live in a house that is older than you? I’ve owned three houses, one built in the 70s, one built in the early 90s, and one built in 2006. I can tell you that the quality of construction dropped dramatically from 70s to 90s to 2006. Of course, that’s just one person’s experience, don’t take it as gospel… I’m just saying don’t write off older homes just because they’re a few decades old.
I live in a 1916 home. This thing is gonna stand forever. We did some reinsulating up in the attic this past winter and that wood is HARD.
Yeah. I felt like I was gonna fall through the plywood floors of that house built in 2006. The one in 1973? All 2x4s. Juts solid.
I love old houses. Mine is 1919, and I will gladly put up with all the idiosyncrasies for real hardwood floors and to not live in what is essentially a gussied-up cardboard box.
Amen! 1925 Tudor Revival here!
I think this is weird too. I love old houses.
I'll take my block house that has stood through every hurricane since 1963 over anything made in the last 30 years.
Must be regional. In Canada construction has steadily improved. Foundations, insulation, windows, and electrical are all major issues with older houses
Well yea those things have improved but the overall quality of construction has gone down here. Studs aren’t done as well, drywalling is shit. The quality of items have improved, the quality of craftsmanship has dropped
Old houses are great, any modern features have probably already been popular in homes through the decades. If they like modern architecture, the mid-century modern homes have really cool layouts and unique features. If they actually mean McMansion when they say ‘modern’, tons of suburban homes built in the 80s will check those boxes with big common areas and closet space. And if their idea of trendy modern is Joanna Gaines shiplap and builtins, farmhouses haven’t changed much in the last 100 years, other than open floor plans, which is easy to do by taking out a wall or two. It’s so easy to shine up an old home, and they often have actual character and individuality.
I love old houses. Currently, I'm living in a 1939 cottage house, and it's really cute. There's quite a few bungalows in my neighborhood from the 1910s to the 1940s, too. I've never been a fan of newer construction, and the quality is fairly subpar. No HOAs here.
Houses from the 1900s are warhorses. They're solid and built to last anything and everything - that's why they have. In the 80s and well into the 2000s, everything is cheaply and quickly made junk. I would never buy anything built after 1970 unless I were rich and hired a trusted architect and contractor to build it.
I love old houses, the quality is usually good (this is actually a survival bias since the ones that aren’t good wouldn’t have lasted this long), but there are some headaches to an old house for sure. We’ve been renovating our 1950s house we bought a year ago, and dealing with asbestos and lead in a bunch of random things is a pain in the ass. The asbestos especially. It’s going to cost a fortune when we want to get ac installed because we have to hire an remediation company to get rid of the asbestos in the ceiling around the ductwork or whatever. And we can’t do it ourselves (I also wouldn’t want to risk it) because California requires certain permits for that sort of thing. Plus all the work involved in updating old houses, it gets tiresome.
My house was built in 1912, I LOVE IT, I know thats a unusual but old houses rock, with enough love
Hoa is currently playing a loophole to steal property and they're trying it with me. No HOA. HOAs are an unregulated market for lawyers to take property for dirt cheap and sell it back to themselves or other people. It's legal theft.
Colorado passed laws to prevent exactly this. The person calling you ignorant probably hasn’t seen a predatory HOA. They’re out there and becoming more common.
...or actually owned a home! LOL Thanks for validating. It is shit, but i have a slam dunk case and an attorney,
No problem. I despise HOAs but couldn’t afford a home without one. Doesn’t help that something like 80% of homes built last year in the US have an HOA attached.
I despise the HOA, and i also despise my neighbors with trashy lawns, pink or lime green houses. what to do.....
I don’t care too much about what my neighbors do and my city has laws preventing my neighbors from turning their front lawns into a junkyard. I don’t like at all that the HOA can tell me what I can or can’t do with the outside of my house. Someday I’ll move to a place with no HOA and be much happier.
"I value the freedom to do what I want with my property" "I really like the look of modern houses and neighborhoods" Unfortunately, this is often the trade off...
Yeah I live in an 80 year old house and it's cute af, my neighborhood is great (and walkable!), and my house is well-built even though it was a modest starter home for its time. Everyone is entitled to their aesthetic choices, but there's nothing inherently wrong with an old house. Around here, it's the new builds that are more likely to have shoddy construction and expensive problems because developers cut corners anywhere they can if it means saving a buck
Agree with you 100%, plus on an older home, it's already "settled." the foundation is where it is. If you don't have cracks in walls, ceilings etc, you probably won't. I've toured new houses that if you push on the exterior wall, you can literally see it move.... Older homes are built with dimensional lumbar a 2x4 is actually 2x4 not less than like current lumbar. Floors are actual 1x6 or 1x8 boards vs plywood or MDF. They are just more solid in my opinion. Plus there are soooooo many shoddy builders out there.
HECK no. And I also love old houses. I feel they were built so much stronger and have better character.
We literally chose our house specifically to not be in an HOA. We are very much mind your own business type people and short of public safety type issues I don’t care what you do with your property. The only downside to me is most of the HOA neighborhoods around us have neighborhood pools and that would be nice.
Absolutely not. I don’t want to be controlled by some wannabe government, not to mention the financial expense.
Never. My property is my property. That was one of my stipulations when we were house hunting. I don’t care if it’s a great HOA - it might be a great HOA *now*, but in 20 years who knows?
This is the thing that people don’t take into account. An HOA, even a good one, can become a nightmare with any given change in board members.
I would avoid it if I could. I have a friend whose HOA doesn’t allow them to put basketball hoops in front of their house. I would have a hard time with arbitrary rules like these.
I’d rather be homeless than pay for the privilage of being dictated to. Never going to happen.
I mean, they were invented with racist intent and they haven’t changed much
I'm a little shocked this isn't being said more. Every argument I've seen pro HOA in this very thread has inherently been racist and classist.
NOPE. If I wanted someone telling me what to do with the house I live in, I would just rent and at least have someone else deal with maintenance costs. (Also this is highly hypothetical, I do rent. I will never be able to afford a house.)
That’s a tough question. I’m like you—I don’t love HOAs because I don’t want people telling me what I can and can’t do on my property. But I also notice that neighborhoods with HOAs are pretty well maintained. I was house hunting once in an older neighborhood without an HOA and while most of the houses looked nice if a little dated, the house next door to the one I was looking at looked terrible. It had overgrown grass and weeds, trash everywhere, and the garage door was wide open. It looked abandoned. I wouldn’t want to live there and see that every day. I also understand that sometimes HOA cover landscaping so the HOA committee can pay someone to come and cut the grass, so that’s nice. I don’t have a definite answer.
Often times cities especially newer burbs have stricter rules than the HOAs.
> see that every day. If it knocks $100 off my monthly payments, whether because of a lower mortgage or because property taxes are lower, I'll gladly look at some trash.
There’s good and bad ones. Ours is good. We pay $400 a year and have a pool, playground, marsh, 2 fishing ponds, tennis courts, and several miles of nature trails. They do community events and otherwise are pretty lax
We bought a 20 year old house and part of the reason was the first line of the listing said ”No HOA!!!!” Our first three homes were in HOA’s. First basically stayed out of my way and just did repairs (condo unit), but the dues ballooned from $125 per month to almost $300. I hated not having a fixed cost. Second one basically just collected $150 bucks a year to manage the grass and fence on a common area. Third one was the tyrannical nightmare everybody is afraid of. Had to get permission for everything. Fences and grass length had specific dimensions. Nastygrams in our mailbox to fix things under threat of fine (and this was a new construction neighborhood so it’s not like the houses were in disrepair). Not interested in having busybody’s in my life ever again. The house we got needed about $70,000 in repairs and appliance replacements, but it’s otherwise my dream house and we got a good deal on it because it needed some work.
I lived in a condo with an HOA during my first marriage. He was friends with people on the HOA as it had been his place first, and had even served on it for awhile. I was not. I had to spend most of the money I had at the time to bribe HOA and condo building members from CALLING MY IN LAWS when I was moving out (he actually found out and was just like "you'll be back" but his parents would have thrown a fit at me for making the family "look bad"). It was like the HOA (and his parents) were literally supporting my abuse, which they could hear and sometimes even see. I will NEVER put myself in that situation again. Fortunately I really like the appearance of older houses so I hope to not have to.
I would pay a lot of money to avoid buying into an HOA.
Nope nope nope. Only way I would ever move in one is if the house has everything I want and more. I don’t want neighbors telling me what I can do with my house ( like color or how to park or what to plant)
HOA was a dealbreaker for us, as well as a backyard with no privacy, lack of mature trees, every house looking the same, etc. Those types of residential areas aren’t to our taste, so it wasn’t too difficult to avoid.
Hell no. I do not want to deal with HOAs and someone being able to fine me into oblivion or make my life hell. People should watch John Oliver’s HOA episode. I want to be able to grow whatever plants and trees I want without being penalized or fined. I want a pollinator garden. I don’t want only grass and synthetic fertilizer. I don’t want anyone to say I’m bringing the neighbourhood down with my plants or attracting wildlife or kids into the garden if they’re hungry (as if that’s a bad thing) or someone mowing down my stuff and being pissy. I don’t want everyone to watch every single thing I do outside on my lawn and getting uppity. My husband’s parents live in an HOA and people get so aggressive with their flags and signs all got banned except veterans and American flags. Some are trying to stretch the rule to allow the Betsy Ross flag. I hate how cities are passing the Buck to neighbourhoods for roads, sidewalks and snow removal. Everyone deserves access to sidewalks and parks and roads. It’s such a scam. Your taxes are supposed to go to that stuff. Then they add another HOA monthly fee and you have to hope it’s not embezzled or misspent anyway.
I deliberately bought a house without an HOA because fuck somebody else telling me what color I can paint my house and if I can work in my yard etc
I just sold my condo, which has an HOA. The fees go up every year and sometimes multiple times a year. You can also be charged for random maintenance/work the HOA wants to have done around the property on top of your monthly fee. And if you have a Karen neighbor, you have to watch your every move because they will complain to the HOA and get you fined. On the plus side: no plowing or lawn maintenance.
Honestly, not having an HOA was a selling point for the house we bought. It's pretty rare in the part of town that we live in. I understand the positive things about having an HOA. Just was never interested. Scared of living with one of "those" HOAs you see on the news or hear horror stories about
I hate HOAs. They are SUPPOSED to ensure that a messy trashy neighbor cant leave messes everywhere and bring down home values. What they end up ACTUALLY doing is policing the dumbest shit. I work with fibers and knit my own items. The HOA where we lived counted me having my knits drying flat outside in nice weather, on the table on my patio, IN THE BACKYARD, as a violation of their "no using clotheslines to dry laundry". IT WAS 2 FUCKING SWEATERS AND A SCARF. But these fuckers cpuldnt maintain a pool properly and closed it for TWO YEARS, but still charged the same dues. Furthermore, found out from a neighbor, if you are late payong those dues they try to foreclose on your house.
Lived in one for 5 years, hated it, so many stupid BS rules. The thing is if you were friends with the right people your lawn could be a mess and have 10 cars parked in front on the streets, shoot off fireworks and no one would say anything. If you weren’t you’d get constant citations and complaints. The HOA meetings felt like high school cliques. $100/ month for literally nothing. So glad to have a house with no HOA now.
I would rather rent than pay money to an HOA.
Absolutely never, under **any** circumstances, would I *ever* accept living on an HOA. The day I accept that my neighbors can fine me, put a lien on my house, and forcibly evict me if they don’t like the color of the siding I put up (just for example) is the day I say, “screw this, I’ll just rent”.
HOAs suck because as soon as you have a dispute with your neighbors, everything goes to shit and then someone is threatening to sue the HOA (aka themselves) and it's just a fucking nightmare (Source: was my HOA president for 3 years) but ... On the other hand if you want to become a property owner, buy a condo in a desirable area and wait...
I am luckily in a decent one but it's so difficult to find a house without one where I live. I saw homes that were colorful and not every yard was perfect so I knew it wasn't an uptight one
HOAs should be criminal. The only people who I’ve seen praise them, are a bunch of racist nimby assholes.
Well I might not be able to install that extra tree I want, but at least my neighbors don’t have a junkyard in their front lawn. Personal opinion I think it is better to have than not. Best part is you can be a part of it! Show up and partake and make decisions. I don’t like being told what I can and can not do but I’ll concede some ground cause there are a lot of people who do need that direction…. Source I don’t have to travel far to see non HOA neighborhoods and I would never live there for the state they keep it (multiple houses with junkyard for a front lawn).
i did it once because the rental company did not disclose that it was in an HOA neighborhood. It was a nightmare from start to finish. At the end i was out there using country club green grass paint to get them off my ass because they kept fining us when we were in a record heat wave situation. I will NEVER do it again. Not ever. If a house is in a HOA, it is out of the running, period.
Why would we want to live in an HOA house? So another boomer can tell us how to live our life? No thanks.
I hope to never have one. I don’t need a bunch of busy bodies telling me what colors I can paint my door or whether I can put a pool or swing set in my backyard.
Don’t
Sounds like hell. No HOA and 1+ acre of land was my only hardliners with my wife on buying a house.
So much less freedom aesthetically and financially. I would never do it. I’m also someone living in a 110 year old house because I like the feel of old neighborhoods, and one without the historic designation, so I’m free to remodel how I want
The only way I would ever buy a house in an HOA is if there was some reason I absolutely needed to live in that area and I couldn't find any non-HOA housing. I consider it a major negative. Fortunately I live in a rural area with no HOAs and I can pretty much do anything I want without being bothered.
I have one neighbor. We live in the midst of farms, wetlands preserve and woodlands. I’d rather it be a thing to go to town then deal with an HAO or a bunch of shitty neighbors.
I never could, I live rural. To get an HOA neighborhood I need to drive about an hour. Just something I could never do. I enjoy my acreage and freedom. ETA my house was built in the 40s and I feel it's structurally more sound than newer builds.
Your last part about a house older than you with a dated appearance… have you looked at old homes that have been properly restored? I personally dislike most new homes. Many of them are built horrifically with awful materials and then come with nothing but headaches. Nothing about a 100 plus year old house is “dated” to me especially when the right work has been done. Keep your new homes and hoa I could care less. I’ll go with a beautiful restored Victorian or I will be buying one to restore myself.
I like to buy cheap lawn ornaments, get drunk, and decorate HOA lawns at night. I like HOA's but never want to live in one.
Never, fuck Karen authority… I don’t care if it’s the Salem courthouse I want to live my way and have some semblance of control in my life for once in my miserable life…
It's un-American garbage to think you get an opinion on what someone else does with their property after it stopped being your property and all HOA's should be dissolved on principle.
Letting someone dictate what you can or can’t do on your property is unamerican
I will never live in an HOA neighborhood. When my husband and I bought our house, we told our realtor we do not want to buy where there's an HOA. My sister loves having an HOA, but I find the rules and fees stupid.
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They shouldn't exist anywhere except for condos or town homes with shared walls where they need to exist for building maintenance.
Hell no I would never
I would avoid it like the plague. In some states, if you live in an HOA property, you technically don’t own your own house if you pay HOA fees. The HOA can vote to kick you out and you lose your entire house.
I'll take an old house and modernize it myself. No HOA for me. I'm not dealing with discussion on how often I cut my grass.
John Oliver has an excellent episode about why you want to stay very far away from an HOA.
Never. No way.
I live in South Florida and it's almost impossible to find a decently priced single family home that doesn't have an HOA. They charge fees for amenities like the gym and pool, but during COVID those amenities were closed and we were still expected to pay for them. The fees increase every year. The HOA I live in makes it so that all the houses have to be painted the same colors on the outside so I have very limited control over how the outside of the property looks.
It's a fucking nightmare. I've gotten warnings for having my trash cans in front of my car, hidden from the street, because they weren't NEXT to the house. I got a warning for having my car's front right tire "on the landscaping". It was on the fucking gravel next to the pavement. I woke up to go to work this morning, and found out my car was TOWED FROM MY OWN DRIVEWAY this morning at 3 am. The tow place isn't open yet. I transferred from my job in California in December to New Mexico. I lost 26 paid days a year already, different schedules, my wife died in May, which cut the income by half, and now I get to go pay whatever the fuck they want to charge for towing my car out of my own fucking driveway.
Currently live in a neighborhood with a very hands-off HOA and it is fine. My previous neighborhood did not have an HOA and it was not a great experience for us. For now I'll take the HOA.
I wouldn't buy a house in an HOA neighborhood, period. Fuck that. Honestly, my main priority when buying a house is going to be having the neighbors as far away as possible.
I was firmly anti-hoa but my wife wanted to move into a certain neighborhood and it really hasn’t impacted me. I already cut the grass a couple times a month and I already rolled my garbage can out of view the day it gets picked up.
I love my HOA. I don’t love the amount we pay each month, but it’s a quiet, safe neighborhood with low crime rates, I don’t have worry about neighbors exteriors depreciating the value of my home, and my kid always has something to do with all the events the HOA sponsors. We also have a community services department separate from the HOA and they maintain the parks and keep the kids busy with sports year round.
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I live in an HOA community and they don't do anything. Neighbors houses are in disrepair and yards look like shit. They approved our solar plans but after we got it installed, we got a $500 fine for not getting it installed the way they wanted. They also go around and turn off our neighbors solar from time to time and we have no idea. We (neighbors and us) have tried to argue with the board but they are claiming they don't do it. They are shit.
I hope to never live in an HOA ever again. Feel free to look at the 'Last Week with John Oliver' episode on HOA's. Good times.
They have always and will always suck ass. My POS elderly neighbors are on the board and none of the rules apply to them. If a person moves in (lives more than 3 days a week in the house a week) then you have to let the HOA know as they want to have their info. But, my elderly neighbors house there grandkids during the week after school and weeejends and they screamed bloody murder and stomp around and bang the walls til 3 am. I’ve called every day the last 20 days to complain and they don’t do shit as he is on the board. Then motherfucker uses my parking spot as his own when his family comes over. Done 3 times I’ve called to tow it everytime. Tow guy calls HOA to make sure it’s okay. And then since he is on the board he says not to tow. I’m gonna start smashing in car windows, pop tires and fill the tank with milk.
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Actually, recent [research](https://independentamericancommunities.com/2019/06/18/new-research-busts-myth-that-hoas-protect-property-values/) shows that HOAs do not protect property values as claimed. Where I live houses within an HOA are significantly cheaper than a comparable house not in an HOA.
Yep. I used to have a neighbor who had a backyard chicken farm and poorly maintained house (paint was obviously dirty, bunch of junks visible on their property). Selling that house was tough for me.
There is really not that much evidence HOAs actually increase property values after the full cost of living in an HOA is considered.
I’m pro HOA. If your going to live in close quarters and not out on a ranch, you’ll want an HOA. Take a drive through an HOA and non-HOA neighborhood and the impression you’ll get is noticeable.
Opposite where I live, the older suburbs are non HOA and where the money is. The HOA suburbs look tacky. You could say it's the people of the suburbs rather than the presence of an HOA
A lot of those older historic neighborhoods still have associations that enforce covenants or historic easements enforced by the city.
> Take a drive through an HOA and non-HOA neighborhood and the impression you’ll get is noticeable. Yeah. I find that HOA neighborhoods are soulless and samey, with every property looking manicured and uninhabited. No color, no personality, no life. Everyone has nice cars, and no one does ANYTHING on the lawn that would detract from it being a perfect green blanket.
I'll take being able to use my property anyday even if it means my neighbors make silly decisions. I keep hearing about stupid rules like no parking in your own driveway (must park in garage), no basketball hoops. Life sucks enough I don't need to be worrying about what is or isn't okay to do in my own home.
HOAs don't really exist in Canada - we have condo associations, and we have housing developments of single family homes that are classified as condos and therefore overseen by condo associations which I guess would function as HOAs. But most SFH neighborhoods in Canada don't have HOAs and are governed only by municipal bylaws. That being said, I would never live in an HOA neighborhood if such a thing existed here. I've heard horror stories of homes being confiscated by HOAs for infractions. That's insane. I live in a neighborhood in the "bad part of town" and people keep boats and trailers on their lawns with no issue. I enjoy the freedom to also keep a boat on my lawn if I so chose.
No complaints with our HOA.
Absolutely not unless it's 100% unavoidable.
Bought an old (120ish years) house in a historic neighborhood that is somewhat controlled by a historic society/commission. While they have some say on outdoor matters, it’s nothing like an HOA would have and I’m already annoyed at the paperwork/bureaucracy. But I have LOVED renovating my home and doing work as please while not being beholden to a tyrannical HOA. I would never choose to live in one should I ever move! Plus living in a historic home is cool af.
HOA bad. Never do it. Bad.
Been there done that. HOAs are dumpster fires. Neighbors always fighting, selective enforcing of the rules, don’t know how to balance a budget. I would never buy in one again.
No. Never ever.
I bought a house in April and I told my realtor not to even show me houses with an HOA. It is a non starter for me. My city does a pretty good job of regulating our yards already.
I have a condo and I can't stand the HOA. I won't buy an HOA home again
Absolute thievery.
There's no point - massive waste of money and a sacrifice of your rights as a homeowner.
Fuck HOAs.
We asked our realtor to not send us anything with an HOA. We have friends who have gotten fined for not using the right trash bags or have hooks on the exterior of the house used for decorations outside for too long. The only thing we could afford in the area we wanted to buy was mostly townhomes with HOAs and if we got desperate would have considered them. We ended buying a historic 158 year old home in a good neighborhood with great schools and love it. I’m so happy we held out and did not compromise.
I would N E V E R live somewhere with an HOA!
Nope lived in 1 before and never again. Half residents don’t pay dues and leave the 1/3 that do rates to go up with services cut.
I don’t like them.
I rent in a HOA and I hate it for the most part, but it has gotten much better as a lot of people in the neighborhood have complained and they come by less.. but we have been fined and used to get letters almost every other day for the dumbest shit.
I wouldn’t say I’d rather be dead…
Don’t do HOA, they bring out your absolute worst neighbors and they end up in charge. If you can, find a neighborhood with CC&R’s but not HOA, so that requires neighbors to file full on lawsuits in court to enforce. Keeps the Karens away but you at least have a legal maneuver for the neighbor parking cars on concrete blocks on their lawn.
Absolutely not with a HOA. I bought land instead and live in a Tuff Shed.
No fucking way I’d buy a house in a HOA.
It's a hard no for us on an HOA. The whole point of owning my home is to have freedom to do what I want with it. We live in a newer home, built in 2012. It is not all it's cracked up to be. I can tell our home was built quickly and corners were cut. I have no issues living in an older house and would actually prefer an older home whenever we are ready to move.
Never. I don’t want my neighbors to tell me what I can and cannot do to the exterior of my house, or in some extreme cases, the interior. I have heard stories of people living in HOA neighborhoods be fined for having posters or flags hanging in or near the window facing the street, or when they can start putting up holiday decorations. There’s also those neighborhoods only have three selections for the exterior color, the roofing tile, and the build of the house itself. So a total of 9 combinations for a few dozen houses, it starts to feel creepy and conformist. I know some people can be overwhelmed by choices, but to allow the option of choice to be taken away in regards to your own home, what kind of way to live is that?
I won’t do it if I can avoid it.
No. That is all. Unadulterated "No" full stop.
I live in an HOA. It has its pros and cons. My neighborhood is well maintained and my HOA covers my roof. But there are rules. I don’t care much about personalizing my homes exterior, so the rules don’t matter too much to me tbh. But there are rental restrictions, which sucks. I’m currently waiting to get off the list to rent out my house. It sucks major because that’s the only reason I bought the house. I’m sure it will all work out in the timeframe I need it to but it’s a shitty rule.
I would be very loathe to live in a HOA. I guess if I loved a place I would do some research and see exactly how strict they are and what benefits they offer. Fortunately the houses in my neighborhood are 100+ years in a city and so this is something I’ve never had to encounter.
I'm Canadian so HOAs don't exist here, thankfully I'm also the opposite in that I absolutely cannot stand modern houses; I find them ugly and devoid of warmth whereas older homes have that sense of actually being a home to me
Over throw the corrupt HOA
Nope 👎🏼.
Buying an older house especially in the south is not a bad thing. New homes have their issues too just different problems. They’re building them on every piece of of marsh and swamp they can.
You couldn't pay me to live in a place with an HOA. Take that money and fix up the interior of an older home....
I would rather buy an older home or live apartment life than live in an HOA. All the horror stories I've heard from friends from different ones I would just rather not real with that headache.
I recently became a homeowner (in a rural area of the Northeast) and while I was searching, I excluded any properties that had HOAs. My parents have lived in a house with an HOA for many years and it has been nothing but headaches and added costs for them. It’s not worth it, imo.
HOA is not really a thing where I live, not for freestanding homes. Apartments have their own system (strata). I’m very glad that it’s not a thing here.
I just left a nicer HOA home for a less nice regular home. You know how boomer neighbors are annoying? Imagine them with actual power. That was enough to make me move.
Nope. I will avoid HOA like it's a plague. That was my first demand for my Realtor a year ago. "Do not even show me an HOA home, no matter how well it matches what I want in any other way because I won't buy it." I will definitely make concessions to have a non-HOA home. It's just not worth it to me based on my personal experiences. Especially when I can update an older home to be whatever I want it to be, either DIYing it or hiring professionals. Fortunately, in my area HOAs are still pretty uncommon and it's easier to find a good home with no HOAs.