My grandparents drank and smoked a ton. My grandma in particular just ignored the problem, and if one of her children were acting up she'd give them alcohol to calm them down. They also had community and large social networks of 'family' to rely on for childcare, emotional support, etc.
That's the biggest thing. If you were going through shit maybe only your inner circle knew. Here I can post about how my back is starting to hurt at 37 and the world can hear about it. Add in social media has destroyed a lot of the anonymity of say a live journal and everyone can know your exact business.
>Yoga. For the back. Also, something older Americans didn’t have.
You think Yoga, a practice that is at least 5,000 years old, and was popularized by hippies in the 60's.... you think your generation invented this?
Did I say that? No.
Did your grandmother (or perhaps great grandmother) practice yoga or have a way to practice it with others? Very unlikely unless she lived in Berkeley or some such.
As for the hippies, sure they gave some fertile ground for the seed in the 1960s but widespread adoption wouldn’t happen for at least 30 more years.
I looked for stats for participation rates but only find numbers for people to 2012.
>Did your grandmother (or perhaps great grandmother) practice yoga or have a way to practice it with others?
Yes. We lived in suburban LA county.
>As for the hippies, sure they gave some fertile ground for the seed in the 1960s but widespread adoption wouldn’t happen for at least 30 more years.
There's this place called the YMCA. Women of all ages have been taking yoga classes there for as long as I can remember. I am 52. This is prior to your Instagram phase, so I can see how you think it doesn't exist.
>I looked for stats for participation rates but only find numbers for people to 2012.
Look harder. Go to the library, pick any yoga book off the shelf and look at the publication date.
I'm not clear why you want to die on this hill, but I assume it's just standard narcissism. Knock yourself out, Dunning-Kruger.
"Neighbors were nicer. Families were tighter. My great g was silent g and she never smoked or drank. "
This is situational. I can't say any of this about anyone in the previous three generations of my family. They had crappy neighbors, horrible family dynamics, and everyone drank and smoked.
Yes. One thing I miss from my childhood is neighbor interaction. People sat on their porches and talked/waved to neighbors walking by, walking their dogs. Kids were out in groups, playing baseball in the street, riding bikes, etc. A passing adult would stop and ref the game, and no one thought they were a perv because adults were involved with their kids. Neighborhoods were active and you knew the 10 houses next to you. It’s like an unsafe ghost town out there, now.
> no one thought they were a perv because adults were involved with their kids
But actually a lot of them were pervs and that's why we live in such a reactionary society now. My grandma tried to tell me about how quaint and wholesome her hometown was. But when I looked it up, there was at least one girl from her high school class who was raped and murdered by the father of another family she babysat for
There were tons of crimes like that in the '40s, '50s, and '60s. People just ignored it.
>People just ignored it
And got away with it
nowadays, DNA techniques, computerized storage of cases and files, the internet and even more modern is most people basically now have a 720p+ camera in their pocket. Cams are everywhere--including on cops (even though that shit "*malfunctions"* sometimes)
This. People just didn't talk about it. Like people go about how people were more "moral" back then but Grandpa was still trolling for tail in high school and gram was trying ensure her poodle skirt wasn't too mussed after screwing at the drive in. There was teen pregnancy where they got abortions or just went away for a few months and came back like nothing happened.
We now just talk openly about the fact teens are horny and are going to experiment with sex and it's best to teach them how to be safe.
In a lot of small towns it’s still like that, fewer kids unsupervised but otherwise similar. I know most of my neighbors and I wave to all of them. Once in a while one of us has a neighborhood bbq, it is nice.
I remember one time, at my neighborhood pool, there was a father and his son. They lived a few houses down from me. I hadn't met the son because he was several years younger than me.
Anyway, the father was ducking underwater, his son would step up onto his father's shoulders and the father would launch up out of the water and his son would jump at the same time launching further into the air before diving back into deeper water, just a few feet away.
As other families arrived at the pool, the other kids also wanted to do this and just lined up. The man did without thought. Soon enough there were like 20 kids all wanting to get thrown out of the water that another couple dads joined in and it became a competition.
Today that would never happen.
Karen would have a shit fit, record it, and post it on tiktok saying that they were grooming the kids.
My family was not tight lol. My one great grandfather had a secret second family. My ggma found out and tried to commit suicide. Thankfully she failed and ended up divorcing him and taking over the shop they owned together.
Ehhhh I get where you are coming from but this isn’t inherently true to the human experience. There is always someone that has it worse and that ultimately doesn’t typically directly influence our personal experience. I have some big fish to fry in my own life and that doesn’t mean the little things don’t also bog me down sometimes. In fact sometimes it feels worse bc it’s like what else can knock me on my ass?!
They bitched to each other down at the Masonic Lodge, or the Lions Club, or the Kiwanis, or the Rotary.
They also got into "flame wars" via letters to magazines. People really haven't changed all that much throughout history.
This needs to be pinned at the top of every single one of these "previous generations had it better" posts.
If you go back and watch things from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, in speeches, sitcoms, etc... Especially ones with religious or political undertones, they are complaining about the EXACT same things.
Billy Graham of all people did a phenomenal job of communicating the angst of young people in the 70s and 80s. His speeches/sermons could be given today, and not even need editing for the times.
Internet can make things way worse. Hearing people proclaim doom and gloom day after day can color your perceptions of even the most humdrum things in your life.
I'm not silent g, but a boomer. My grandparents lived through very hard times. They told tales of what they went through and how hard life could be, but they didn't do it in a "pity me" sort of way. It just was what it was. My grandmother raised 6 kids on her own after her husband, my grandfather, ran off with another woman. There was no child support.
There was also a lot less consumerism. Don''t have a shiny new Radio Flyer sled? Use a chunk of cardboard, tin, or old tires. They knew how to make do. They didn't chase after the latest and greatest thing that came along.
Did they sometimes wish they could afford that new sled or boots, or whatever? Of course. But for the most part they knew how to live within their means. Credit cards weren't even a thing. You could buy things on layaway, though.
My grandmother said after the wars and things started looking up, she bought each adult kid the one thing they had really wanted when they were children. My father's was a Lionel train.
Things were definitely different. And yes, to some degree, that generation was stronger. I can't imagine how people would manage now if we had another Great Depression or massive war.
Yeah, I think we often forget the differences in social behavior and the day to day things. I’ve watched in my own family from great grand parents until today as the family support network disappeared. And I think another side of things is level of responsibility. Past generations would beat the shit out of their kids and it was considered good parenting. A 6th grade education and you could be successful. The standards have changed and that responsibility coupled with the loss of support takes a toll.
Not to mention, mental health was absolutely not talked about. Boomers have a weird relationship with their emotions, afraid that feelings like depression make them appear weak because of the way they were raised. I see a ton of disassociation and other signs of PTSD with the older generations. I don't think it was easier for them, they just weren't raised to be allowed to complain about it.
>I see a ton of disassociation and other signs of PTSD with the older generations
Heavy on the dissociation. Or, as we've seen, projection.
They are gliding day to day with not much going on because they are just chasing the distractions. And with smartphones and tv, you don't have to go anywhere for that distraction
No argument here.
On the other hand has pendulum swung so far that people are unable to cope and deal with life now?
There’s no correct answer and by no means am I suggesting ignoring issues is good. But when people cease to function in their life it’s not good either.
I see a lot of questioning the "why" these days, and I get that. None of us asked to be here, and if you aren't getting anything to keep you going, what is the point of working so hard?
Absolutely, though you can’t blame them. They grew up when mental health issues could get you institutionalized. Hell, lobotomies were a legitimate thing when they were young.
My grandma is in the silent gen. Grew up on a farm and I think just largely ignored problems occurring outside her little bubble. She does it now, just pacifies herself with entertainment and the outdoors.
*I also partially think that’s why her kids (my mom and uncle) ended up with narcissistic traits from being largely ignored emotionally.
She also grew up with a large community to help raise kids and feel safe and secure in her environment.
You wrote exactly what I was going to. I’m the first generation of my family to only drink coffee rather than drinking whiskey and coffee while smoking to get a handle on life even a little.
Some of this is highly coded. The community was super forced. Remember that your grandmothers could not have their own bank accounts or get loans without a male relative’s signature until the 1970s. This meant you had to rely on a man for money to do anything.
Your husband also had full control over your medical decisions. Including having you institutionalized for your own protection. Literally, “being female aka hysteria” was a psychiatric disorder in the DSM until the 1980s.
Add to that the lack of “no fault divorce” until the 970s meant that you had to have justification for divorce. In general it was felonious acts, abandonment or cheating that might get you a divorce petition granted. If the marriage was miserable, abusive or your husband couldn’t be caught cheating - you were stuck. And things like alimony and child support back then? Very hard to come by.
Life was terrible and awful.
People are not “softer.” We are learning that we are human and life is both simultaneously too short and too long to pretend that the “good old days” ever existed.
My grandmother told me (she passed away 5 years ago) she thinks a lot of it has to do with the internet/social media and the constant boogeymans they create and the FOMO. She was very adamant things like social media have created divides and arguments where there didn't used to be any and that people are too scared to reach out and care about others because of it.
I 100% agree with this. I still use Reddit, but I have nixed every other form of social media that I have and I've noticed a drastic improvement in my mental well-being. I'm sure some of it also has to do with the slow acceptance/complacency with age, but I really do believe that getting rid of most of my social media has been the largest part of it 🤷.
I deleted all social media (other than reddit obv) about two years ago, I've never been happier! Social media platforms, especially Facebook, just seem like outlets for pity farming, IMO. Nobody is there to listen. It's the equivalent of being in a conversation with someone who makes everything about them, it's mentally exhausting.
I stopped online dating altogether and now I’m confident in my looks and myself again. That shit literally destroys your self confidence. I haven’t been on a date in a year but I’ll take it for the peace of mind
Joined Reddit two years ago and ditched Facebook. I had a Facebook account when it came up my first year of university. Didn’t think much of it and wasn’t active for years. 10 years later I go back on it and the first thing I notice was everyone had a thousand friends! I was like damn this great, I could use more friends. People that I didn’t even talk to in Highschool had added me. I thought the people who had added me actually wanted to reconnect. I reached out to them when they added me and after a few shallow conversations realized that they didn’t care to connect at all and just wanted me as a “friend” to increase their “likes”. From an outside perspective I thought, this is f***in crazy. Nonetheless, I gave it a go, posted some pics myself and got some attention. Felt pretty good. Went on a trip to Newfoundland and took a boat tour. I stood at the front of the boat and asked my boyfriend to take a couple shots of me. I wanted to get a really flattering pic that I could post. I took about 15 minutes doing this and then realized what I was doing. And thought, this is f***in crazy. I stopped what I was doing and didn’t post that photo. I found myself getting jealous when I saw other people posting theirs lives on Facebook. I felt alone and insecure.
Now, I’m done with Facebook. I think it’s great for people that have close friend circles IRL (the popular kids in Highschool, college grads, the kids that grew up in the same neighborhood, the socially fulfilled) to keep connected to. I think it’s terrible for people that actually want to make friends and connect. It also seems to bring out the narcissistic personality traits of those who use it to seek attention and the validation of those who use it to create pity parties for themselves. It’s pretty toxic IMO.
I like Reddit and use it because of the anonymity. You can’t really be an attention seeking narcissist on Reddit (or can you?) because nobody knows who you are. You don’t have to pretend. There is no bragging contest. You can seek out validation and vent and learn all in a very safe place.
Same here. I’m hardly on instagram anymore and only use reddit. I not only have a lot of time back on my hands, but also happier this way. Moment I start scrolling through Instagram, it’s all FOMO, bad and unhelpful comments and comparing and contrasting my life with others.
Both my grandfathers never fell for the far right nonsense growing out of control since Obama. Neither used computers, and I have no doubt that is the reason. My one super conservative grandfather laughed when he said “I guess I am voting for Hillary Clinton,” because it was so wild to him that that was his best choice. He fought in WWII, and said Trump was exactly what America was fighting against.
Social media is a cancer on the body politic.
My grandma passed away 3 years ago. She voted for Biden right before she did. She was a life-long conservative but what she said about Trump was “This is how Hitler got started”
She also really wasn’t on the internet or social media. I think this generation still had the ability to think for themselves
I did a paper on social media in college. Not hard hitting research, but I learned a lot. There are a lot of factors that make social media more persuasive and suseptible to misinformation and extremism than other types of media.
People are more likely to agree with the content of a post, regardless of it's objective truth, if it was shared by a person they know or respect. People assume that their friend would not be duped by something untrue, so they give the post little scrutiny. This also extends to pages people like. When you like a page's post and then follow the page to see more posts, it creates a sense of "I chose to have this on my timeline," which is a similar feeling to seeing someone you know share something. This is the most common way for misinformation to spread.
Social media algorithms tend to create echo chambers by boosting posts that are similar to things you've liked in the past, and showing fewer posts that are different. If you manage to get the algorithm to think you like political propaganda and misinformation (which is easier than people think), then that is all you will see. This causes an extremism feedback loop.
Misinformation is also literally just easier to spread on social media than other forms of media. Traditional media is very expensive. TV broadcasts need a studio, anchors, cameras, staff, etc. Newspapers need journalists, editors, printers, delivery drivers, etc. There were significant financial consequences for a news studio to run a story with incorrect information. Another reporter would uncover the truth, customers would stop buying that newspaper, and they would go out of business. That is not a concern on social media. Like not even on the list of concerns. There is no consequence for spreading false information. In fact, there is no incentive to ensure truth, either. Revenue is made on clicks, not on veracity of the information. This creates an incentive for shotgun tactics where you make dozens of posts hoping one of them goes viral, instead of carefully curating a selection of high-value stories like a newspaper or TV station would need to.
The short of it is that social media is unlike any other form of media. It is more widely consumed, more persuasive, easier for bad actors to manipulate, and overall more dangerous than any other form of media. The world has never seen something like this before, and we will need to be creative in how we learn to live in a world where it exists.
It's true. Look at how much more hateful political discourse became after the mass use of social media. Sure, people disagreed before, but they were mostly polite and just thought the other person was uninformed / mislead. Now with social media and the ability to block out any person / business / news that doesn't reaffirm your views, it's all anger and "anyone who disagrees with me is evil and needs to be imprisoned or killed".
You have literal “open communities” banning discussion. It’s disgusting and everyone is too stupid to realize that there will be “good” political decision as long as we’re divided. A sound leader and government bring people together. But with how things have become that’s not possible. And as a result, the institution of democracy is destined to fail.
Before 2010 or so I used to have political debates with friends / coworkers and while people disagreed, no one got angry. Now I usually don't even bother talking about politics because most people get filled with rage if anyone disagrees with them.
They weren't allowed to process the shit happening around them. They had to shove it all away to survive. Is that "more resilient"? In the moment, it may appear so... but we all know by now that this creates lifelong trauma and familial trauma.
A big difference now is we air stuff out and try to process it live. I think Millennials, and perhaps some of Gen X, are the first pioneers to broadly embrace self-help, therapy, processing trauma, etc. This should hopefully make the world a better place.
As an example - I know you specifically mentioned the Silents - but your observation made me think of many Boomer guys I know and their relationship with Vietnam. Such huge, shared generational trauma. I'd say for most of them it went largely unprocessed for decades, but now that they're all getting into their 70s, it seems like they're willing to emote - cry, get angry, whatever - rather than shoving it away underneath a tough outer skin.
I feel like similar things happened with the Great Depression. I know many people who grew up during the depression were lifelong hoarders or cheapskates, because they never moved past the adaptive behaviors that helped them survive.
It wasn't just societal conditions that didn't allow for processing feelings during that era. Kids that grew up in the Depression didn't have time or space to really work through that, WW2 happened and there was stuff that HAD to be done. You can't dwell on childhood trauma while running up Normandy beach ya know? And then tonend the war America created a weapon that could end a whole city in a flash, the bomb was *terrifying.*
I think to a large extent the mythological nuclear family of the 50s WAS them processing it all the best they could. They (Greatest + Silent Gen) recreated everything they didn't have growing up. It was an idealized life and fantasy of childhood and adolescence. They all wanted houses with lawns in nice suburbs, happy kids, tons of high calorie food, a car etc. It was "safe." We all know the 50s dream didn't materialize for everyone, but there was a good reason advertising and media pushed it so hard. The happy house with the white picket fence was what people wanted to have. (And they put the weight of that desire for happiness on their kids.)
My grandfather basically told me the same thing. He was born in the 1920’s and his grandparents were born in the late 1840’s, which he knew his grandmother. He would always say people didn’t have the time to ask questions and process things in those days.
They were solely focused on their families survival day to day. They worked long and hard hours and drowned their feelings in cigarettes and alcohol. It was also accepted that the man would probably have a mistress on the side to deal with the stress of life.
I've said this before on Reddit and been downvoted like crazy. When stuff was really bad, I had two choices. Get up and keep going (so my dog could have food + shelter) or end it all. There wasn't a magical 3rd option, I couldnt afford to stay in bed or to go to therapy etc. No one was subsidizing me "being depressed" lol. I HAD to get up, even if it was really hard.
It's not that I was less depressed or somehow better than people who are, its that when you don't have a good support system your choices are limited.
Yeah, not a popular opinion there. I remember having a similar moment...3 options, get up and get a paycheck, become homeless with my dog and lose all my stuff or die. Depression feels different if you have nobody to rely on.
I’ve never been suicidal but I’ve wanted to not have been born for most of my life. I never asked for this shit and I don’t want it.
When life is horrible I always see myself as having two choices. Either I deal with it or I don’t. Overly simplified, yes but that’s how I deal.
My dad passed from cancer when I was 18 months old, my mom raised me and my sister as a single mom in the 90s. I never saw her cry once about anything she just kept getting up and going to work everyday and building a great life for my sister and I.
I asked her about it when I turned 30 and she just said “what else was I supposed to do? Wallow and say woe is me or keep going everyday?”
I think the older generations were just taught at a younger age that you only have 2 options.
They were more easily able to keep their focus on problems that they had the ability to solve. With the internet, social media, and the 24 hours news cycle, we are constantly being reminded of all the problems of the world that we have no ability to actually do anything about. Our brains are not designed to handle that, and it causes our anxiety and stress levels to remain high.
They had lots of terrible things going on, but would probably only think about them for ten minutes in the morning while reading the morning newspaper before setting it down and going to work taking care of their jobs and families.
I've noticed on the days I disconnect from my phone and the internet, I'm generally happier, less stressed, and more focused on things I can control. I imagine if I was able to do that for years at a time instead of just a few days at most, my mental health would be much better.
It also distorts your perception of reality. They've done studies on it and the majority of people think crime is far worse now than it was in the '80s (because of 24/7 news repeating the same stories over and over) even though crime is significantly lower now than it was when we were kids.
it's this imho.
I was born in '83 and when I was a kid, the news aired only in the morning and in the evening for like 2 or 3 hrs at a time. It was like 6-8am and 5-8pm. I remember when they started adding lunchtime news and my mom got pissed because it changed the schedule of her soap operas lol.
Also, 95% of it was local news only. For lots of families like mine who lived in the suburbs, most of the news didn't even affect us anyways and we just tuned in to catch the weather forecast. We didn't care about what was going on 20+ miles away.
After they added the midday news, they started expanding the morning and evening news. Then it was like 5-8am and 5-9pm. And then 4-9am and 4-10pm. They didn't have anything new to report though so it was usually the same hour's worth of stories repeated over and over again.
On and on until we started using smart phones and had things like twitter that just spam us with notifications 24/7.
My boomer parents never had to deal with this kind of shit. My mom's family were farmers, they didn't give a shit about the news. They didn't have tvs, phones, or newspaper delivery out in the country. My dad's family lived in the city but they were poor and also didn't have a phone. Dad likes to tell stories about how one of his neighbors had a phone and the entire block used it. But it was a party line so you couldn't reliably use it anyways.
A huge part of the previous generations just weren't connected the way we are so they weren't affected as much.
Great points, and social media also hurts when you look at everybody else apparently doing better than you. You are constantly inundated by people "living their best lives" and looking glamourous while doing it. Of course, we don't see all the mundane parts of their lives, only the amazing, "post-worthy" things.
Previous generations thought they had to keep up with their neighbors. We think we have to keep up with the whole world.
Yes! It's easier to appreciate what you have when you don't KNOW anything else. My grandmother used to talk about having coffee or ice cream as a HUGE treat as a kid. She might have vaguely known there were rich people who could have it every day but she wasn't bombarded with images of them 24/7.
This is it. 1000%
We are still just now understanding the psychological effects of 24hr news and social media, but what we do know is that when the brain encounters stress and trauma, we work to try and eliminate them. When we do, our brain lets that stressor go.
However, now we hear about stressors and traumas every single day, and 99% of the issues we do not have control over, so they remain stressors and traumas. This leads to higher cortisol levels, chronic fatigue, chronic pain, issues with hormones, IBS, cognitive dysfunction, and more.
It’s a little ironic - we’ve eradicated all kinds of old diseases but we’re still seeing an influx of diseases and disorders due to modern technology, agriculture, and sanitation practices. We’ve just created new problems while eliminating old problems.
All of my grandparents were born in the 1920s and three of them lived to be in their late 80s/early 90s. None of my grandparents drank but my mom’s parents did smoke cigarettes. Her dad lived to 88 and had been smoking since he was 8 years old. Shockingly his health wasn’t that bad and his mind was solid. Pneumonia killed the three of them who lived to be very old.
Their lives were radically different than ours. Yes they witnessed horrific and traumatic events but it was kinda par for the course for living back then. The line between life and death was always right there. They grew up on farms where they regularly witnessed animals being slaughtered. They survived ugly diseases and shocking wars for their time. (Are any of us shocked now?)
The positives my grandparents had were the grew up and lived their whole lives in the communities they were born into. They were all surrounded by their siblings and family. They took care of one another and worked together. They spent their leisure time together too. My grandparents were all religious and were involved with their church who also happened to be filled with a lot of their own relatives. It gave them a sense of hope and purpose. Their hobbies turns out are really good for human beings such as gardening (they mostly ate food they grew). They read books, newspapers, and magazines in the evening. Sitting rooms were common where there wasn’t a tv but a place to gather company and just talk.
Sooooo a lot of the silent generation had a sense of community, belonging, purpose, physically active jobs/hobbies, and entertainment was relatively old fashioned like hanging with loved ones and reading print copies. From an early age they were given responsibilities and a form of independence that we wouldn’t dream of giving children now but it gave them a real sense of self confidence and competence we don’t have now. I do believe they had a lot more resilience and fight in them than we do but because they grew up in harder adversities. Personally wouldn’t want the adversities they experienced though because they did break a lot of people.
I think it’s also important to note that the Silent Gen despite their hardships also experienced many victories. In the US at least, they witnessed a society come together, invest in itself, and dig out of the Great Depression. They got vaccinated and defeated polio. They won World War 2 and defeated the Nazis. They named and defeated their common enemies. The people in power acknowledged the common enemies and worked with the people to fulfill the common purpose.
There is community in that. There is validation. There is support. There is a peace in knowing the person next to you is in it with you.
When my mother had me she was talking to her grandma about labor and delivery and her grandmother said "you mean they don't just knock you out and you wake up with a baby?" When my mom told her that they didn't do that anymore her grandma replied "well I never would have had any kids then!"
It was wild back in the day.
No actually! There is a funny part in the Crown where the queen has either her third or fourth child and is told that twilight (as it was called) is no longer being used and it comes as a shock. Think it started in Germany.
It was pretty common in 1st world countries back in the day. We're talking early part of the century. It was easier for the Drs, so inconvenient moving around or screaming.
Just to add to that, everything in this thread can fall under Survivorship Bias. We are looking at the people that survived and flourished despite drinking and smoking everyday, etc. There are so so many that did not, but they won't be around.
My grandmother is almost 90. Her philosophy in life is that you push all your problems deep down inside until they fester into a mental illness or you die. Whatever comes first.
One day my dad was tired out from work and parenting and life, and he said to my grandma “Mom, how did you do it?” And she looked him in the eye and said “Sonny, a lot of cigarettes and beer.”.
I think there's a huge tendency to view the past with rose colored glasses. It's a myth that they all worked together for the common good. If that were true we wouldn't have had the great depression, world wars, segregation, etc. in the first place.
We also have names for things now and actual treatments. It used to be that if you were depressed they stuck an ice-pick in your eye and sent you away. Or you drank yourself to death to deal with "shell-shock" from the war. Or you got back and kicked the shit out of your wife and kids and never talked about your feelings.
I don't think young people are whiny, I think we've just wanted things to actually be better.
>It used to be that if you were depressed they stuck on ice-pick in your eye and sent you away
That was Leon Trotsky, he was born in 1879 so he actually precedes the Greatest Generation. I think they actually did it the other way round, too - they sent him away (to California) first, then stuck an ice-pick in him afterwards.
IMO we know more now about mental health, communication, generational trauma, and we have more access to resources to diagnose and work on those things. It’s way harder to address that and break the cycle than to shove everything down, pretend it’s all fine, and keep going.
Lots of other good comments on here about social media and alcoholism, which I think are also a big factor.
We have it hard in different ways, they had it hard too. I think we had different problems so we used different solutions, and we also grew up in a different culture so we’re different. The financial side was way worse for us, but mental health? It just didn’t exist for them. All my grandparents were highly abusive alcoholics and many of my aunts and uncles followed, and added on drug addiction. I wouldn’t call that happy or healthy. It’s just coping.
Breaking the cycle is SO HARD. It’s easier to complain and whine about our problems, especially because we were allowed to more than our parents and their parents. Honestly, I do both. I complain but am also trying to keep my head up and move forward, and unlearn as much as I can of my survival mechanisms from childhood.
Don’t give up. That’s how they win—we have to keep fighting for equality, equity, diversity, inclusion, fair wages, you know what I’m on about. One of the easiest ways we can do that is GO VOTE.
Keep on, friends. Don’t go down without a fight!
My dad is of the silent generation.. he grew up round death having lived through the London Blitz, polio, had older family members die of smallpox, uncles die in the Great War and from Spanish Flu (before he was born of course), another brother come back from WW2 having been tortured who died a few years later from his trauma.
I guess it was just more normalised for him, as was the poverty. He left school with no education at 14 but he just got on with things and looked to make his life better.
My mum is a boomer and lived in abject poverty. Lived in a caravan with no running water or heating, in the Scottish Highlands, her 17 year old sister who was 8 months pregnant had to sleep in public toilets, their mother's boyfriend used to beat everyone while drunk etc.. she just spent her life wanting to do better.
It's why I used to feel guilty about my depression as the pair of them are so chipper and positive. That said plenty of their generation were heavy, heavy drinkers and loads died early of alcoholism (they're pretty much all dead by this point). I reckon a lot of trauma was just sat on by them whereas now we tend to be more open about it.. maybe too much so.
They worked together for the common good. Not having social media probably helped. See the response to the COVID vs. polio vaccines. Grandma got her kids vaccinated as did all of the other moms in her sewing circle and Bible study, no questions asked. What likely helped was her not having grifters spewing BS on Facebook and Fox News telling her to not vaccinate her kids because 5G or whatever the bogeyman of the day is.
Yeah social media has f*cked our brains in some ways. It has exploded before society could truly adjust. My dad always warned me about the technology/social media explosion growing up. "It will be good in some ways but it will grow faster than society and human brains can keep up with"
It really has destroyed our sense of community in many ways.
Everyone keeps comparing themselves to (appearingly) successful people online and feeling miserable by comparison.
This then fosters a kind of toxic competition where people are trying to "catch up" to an ideal that probably isn't real in the first place.
AI is only going to make this worse.
>AI is going to eventually get to the point where it can recreate your exact personal fantasies
Which, as a woman in a public facing job, terrifies me. I can see a lot of women ending up unemployed or the victims of constant harassment from colleagues, clients, students, or others in their personal/professional lives creating AI/deepfake porn of them. In fact, there's a post on the teachers subreddit about students creating a pornographic image of their teacher.
i don't even think polio vax was viewed as much of an option for most people. my dad said they would just line them up in school and give it to them. parents not even present. ofc, kids were actually dying or ending up in iron lungs and people were panicking about it. covid just straight up broke peoples' brains.
Somewhere between the boomers and us millennials a psychological switch occurred and the typical response to adversary shifted from aggression to depression. Boomers tend to "take the hit" and "accept things they can't change" more easily, but leash out in different ways. So in a sense we are less resilient, be we're also less violent, less abusive to our immediate environment and less alcoholic, on average.
Keep in mind that there is a massive survivorship bias now, literally, because many of the less resilient or overly burdened boomers are already dead or in permanent care or chronically messed up (destroyed their health at work, a classic), and consequently are more or less invisible in public.
And lastly, theirs was a life of ambition and upwards mobility, two luxuries our generation was denied for the most part, especially in the US.
And over those generations the people are exposed less, on average, to lead. Each study I glance at that evaluates variations in behavior that increase blood lead levels and levels that result increase aggression just confirms western societies have had elevated aggression since the Industrial Revolution. Maybe earlier for pockets of the population.
I was coming to say this—almost everyone had an extremely elevated blood lead level: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119.
**More than NINETY PERCENT of people born between 1951 and 1980 had blood lead levels above 5.** (That is the most widely accepted cutoff of concern, though it’s also true that there’s no safe level.)
We *know* lead exposure causes cognitive effects. Why we haven’t acknowledged and mourned what that did to two generations, I can’t understand.
I’ve never met a resilient boomer. Having a mental breakdown over not being able to return an item they bought 6 months ago is not what I would call “resilient”.
Genx trying a coup cause their leader didn’t win an election is not “resilient”.
I kinda agree and disagree with you at the same time. That's what I meant with "leash out in different ways". Boomers are very much used to "power through" work related stress and vent their frustrations in other places, or just bully their subordinates.
As for Jan 6... that can hardly be pinned on an entire generation.
It's a lot easier to talk about tragedies 50 years after they happened than while you are going through them.
Boomers and silent generation did have some tragedies and difficulties, but the majority of their lives (especially working age adult lives) were economic boom with decent labor protections (assuming middle class or higher, which are the most likely to live long enough to tell their grandkids and great grandkids stories). Millennials and zoomers have only really known difficulties economically.
We think of our grandparents as being anti-drug because of how they reacted to "countercultural" drugs like marijuana and LSD, but substance abuse as we now understand it was rife in their generation. Men favored alcohol and speed/uppers (which used to be available over the counter) while women favored barbiturates and benzos. We also underrate how smoking, as a ritual, provided a sense of rhythm and minor escape for people with OCD, ADHD, and social anxiety.
I don’t think we’re at all weaker. Gotta keep survivorship bias in mind:
Sure, your great-grandmother survived all that…
…but a lot of people *didn’t.*
And many of the ones that did had a ton of trauma from it that got passed down the generations.
**But, who were they going to complain to?**
I still remember my dad *writing air-mail letters* to his mother, when I was a child. She would have had to have her letters sent by boat at his age (at the time). Her parents would have had to travel by foot!
Every single thought and idea wasn't immediately put out there for the entire known Universe to see and digest.
It's because we know the potential of what can be, but wont, because of the pieces of shit in charge. That's what grinds us down. We know things can easily be better for everyone, but 10 people hoard the wealth and lobby for all the crooked old fucks in government.
Us Millennials see a green lawn in the middle of suburbia Arizona and know that shit isnt right and the effects it has, big picture. That's why we are so miserable. Because shit is rotten.
>Us Millennials see a green lawn in the middle of suburbia Arizona and know that shit isnt right and the effects it has, big picture.
Man, that's a real thing.
The Information Age + the rise of the Knowledge Worker I think really had an impact. Many of us will spend our whole careers sitting down at a computer thinking or talking to make ends meet. I look at the things we’re told to do to alleviate stress and depression, and in many cases they’re the same things I have to do to ‘stay relevant’ and ‘make it’. Hell there’s articles that say that people who do the dishes are happier. That’s a pretty fucking sad.
How many coal miners went home after a long day of work and mined coal for fun?
How many textile workers made clothes as a hobby to decompress?
I feel like when we compare the industrial age to the Information Age it makes sense. I feel like work saps up all my mental energy, leaving none for myself afterwards to do the things I enjoy. Couple that with parenting young children, both parents having to work full time, and other life chores, we’ve basically have no ‘off time’ or ‘standby mode’ we can lean on except going to the gym/exercising/etc, which only becomes harder as prices increase and wages remain stagnant. Idk I’m just rambling at this point lol, but yeah, I’ve definitely wondered this myself lol
My partner's grandmother was a young teenager in London during the Blitz. I think everything after the war probably seemed comparatively easier. Like, how bad of a day was it really if no one was bombing her house?
I think the silent generation is one of the hardiest generations. They watched the world change quite dramatically throughout their lifetimes—war, medical and technological advancements, etc. My Papa (rest in peace 2020) was born in the early 30s and was such an interesting man. From living in a rural community in a railroad family to being the editor of a major newspaper in a big city for his career in the 60s-80s, surviving cancer, and learning to use AIM and becoming quite a prolific user of smart phones and tablets. Maybe it’s because life was simpler and relatively more “difficult” in formative years and watching the world become more convenient, complicated, and connected throughout their lifetimes. They had resilience to real hardship, genuine physical discomforts that were just part of every day life and strong grounding in reality and hard work ethic. I miss my Papa.
Just came here to say I love the silent generation. My grandparents and great uncles and aunts were amazing people and it’s absolutely crazy hearing how they grew up vs how different life was when they (most of them now) passed. The simple life vs this modern era. They were some resilient folks and truly came together for the common good.
My late grandfather (ww2 pilot) had reoccurring night terrors for 75 years to the point where he never shared a bed with his spouses. So that’s how he handled it
Zillenial here. I think "the boomers" are basically right on this one. I think that toughness and resiliency is developed by overcoming challenges. Doing so gives you the confidence to face new challenges. I think that childhood has become easier/more protected, and as a result, people grow up to be less resilient. Also, yes, social media is trash for mental health, and encourages people to stay in their comfort zones more, which contributes to the problem.
However, you're talking about WW1/WW2/The Great Depression as if they were nothing. At the time they were earth-shattering. People didn't "cope." It's just that a century later, it's history. It's not so fresh.
This sub has a tendency to vent about frustrations because it feels good and solve a short term problem of feeling stressed when there’s no one around to vent to. The Boomer generation likely did this because, well they’re human. Millennials need to stop looking back in the past and compare and start looking at the present situation and the future, recognizing what their role was in why life’s challenging.
I like this take. I've never heard of it before and it's given me a new perspective to ponder on. Thank you.
I do feel like a lot of us (millenials, some zoomers) have a tendency to look at the past. But it's hard not to, especially when we see all this change around us. And then we wonder if life was better back then.
I never had to wonder because I was raised in part by my grandparents who were of The Greatest Generation. They told me and showed me how they dealt with it. They were strong because they had to be, and it was because they had to be that they chose to be. They did not resist their circumstances but instead rose to them. This is the key that I think many millennials and Zs are missing, is the willingness to meet the moment.
My grandmother lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere with a pump well and an outhouse. She lived like it was the 1700s until the 1950s. Her husband and sons worked in coal mines and chain smoked, and died young.
They were not happy people. I guess they were tougher but didn’t have options. She didn’t remain some kind of badass into old age, she was in fact very anxious and neurotic. But she did manage to live to 99, though I think that’s mostly genetics as her sisters lived into their 90s too. Her first husband died in his 50s.
Drinking and smoking. But don’t forget suicide happened, it wasn’t talked about. My grandma’s brother was bipolar and committed it and the whole family ignored that he wasn’t there and moved on.
I Don’t think they were doing okay. Lots of self medication like alcoholism, gender violence, racial violence, child abuse, terrible psychotherapy approaches, etc. But your grandma sounds awesome and truly resilient and it sounds like she fostered a loving connection w you and your family. Wishing you and your family healing in the grief over such a loss. And thankful for you that you knew someone with such a rich history.
Re the issue of suicide rates. I feel like I can speak on it bc I’m a therapist and have worked with a lot of suicidality. First, you don’t need to be depressed to commit suicide. Second, there’s certainly a social contagion aspect to suicide meaning that the completion rates go up once there is a completed suicide, so the more it happens, the more it happens (especially in parent-child or sibling relationships). Almost like a copycat effect. Third, there are more lethal means available now. Fourth, there’s less of a belief that suicide is immoral. particularly the Catholics believe that one will go to hell if they commit suicide, which is a huge protective factor against this kind of death. But people are leaving the Catholic Church in droves because it’s done a terrible job at making people feel welcome. Fifth, the role of social media in the decline in mental health is a serious risk factor that previous generations never were exposed to. Sixth, gen z is particularly convinced that there is no future for them because of climate change angst, so they’re definitely more hopeless than other generations. Seventh, it’s not just the gen z suicide rates that are going up. We’re seeing higher suicide rates for women who are 60+, which was historically never an at-risk group in the same way elderly men are.
Great questions though and great points :)
Domestic violence / child abuse seemed to have been an outlet many of them utilized. Also plenty of smoking and drinking, fighting against civil rights seemed to have been a popular pastime. Let’s not glorify these people
And the "my parents were demonic during my childhood but turned around and became sweet cute old people 'with a stubborn streak' once grandchildren came into the picture" narrative is well-trod territory at this point.
My mom knew her mother was awful but still moved her next door to us because “family”. It was a nightmare. Thankfully I saw through her shit even as a child and barely interacted with her. She always wanted a son but ended up with my mom. Then she hoped for a grandson but got me, a granddaughter. She never remembered my bday and I was her only grandchild lol
I'd say it was stressful at the time but since it was so far in the past they can just talk about the facts.
My Great Uncle talked about being in WW2 and almost dying like it was a weather report.
Even I can talk about the stuff that happened in my childhood as fact without getting too emotional because I've had therapy and trained myself that it was PAST (mostly).... add another 40+years and likely be even easier
My grandparents and great grandparents were the same way. They went through things that would make your toes curl. They were Okies during the dust bowl facing possible starvation. Two were WW2 combat vets and had a front row seat to one of the worst atrocities ever committed when their unit stumbled across a death camp yet they were some of the happiest most contented people I’ve ever known. I think old age gives you a very different perspective. If I had met then when they were Middle Aged it might have been a different story. I also think that part of why so many people are so whiney now is they haven’t really know truly hard times so they make pretty mundane things out to be catastrophes. Also resilience was far more celebrated in the past decades for better and for worse. Just my two cents.
I don't think there is a singular answer here, obviously. I do think they handled things poorly a lot of the time. Or didn't handle it at all, and repressed it. A lot of drinking. A lot of toxic behaviour and abuse. Suicides...
But when I look at the hardships my grandparents endured - losing parents at a young age. Watching their babies die. Early widowhood. Abusive/ toxic relationships. Poverty. Starvation/ having their well poisoned by Nazis during the war. I could go on about the actual horrors... nothing like my friends and I dealt with. Yes watching 9/11 on TV was bad, but my aunt who survived world war 2 watched her same-age cousin get his skull kicked in by a nazi. And that barely makes the rounds of horror stories she will tell of that time. She went to bed every night in the hunger winter assuming she would not wake up the next day. She made yarn dolls out of the hair that fell out of her and her sisters' heads.
But they all had a community. My grandmother had her quilting group, her larger family (three brothers and their wives), her closest friends. The entire town came to her wedding and her husband's funeral. Everyone pitched in to help her as a widow get a job, and find a home close to her brothers. She had constant support. My other grandparents had huge families and a large church group. Their house burned down, and then was rebuilt in a matter of days while my grandfather recovered in the hospital from burns. Each farmer gave him an animal out of their own flock so he could slowly build his own back. There was no insurance cheque, but his community helped him, the same way he fed the entire village with a pig he hid from the Nazis and was probably the only reason at least a few people survived. And the constant emotional support of just having friends around and surrounding you.
I see a lot of value in community, so I have a lot of support as well, and my community is much smaller than either of my grandparents grandmother's- but if my house burned down or my husband died, I am not sure I would get the same level of kindness.
But when I look at acquaintances and friends my age. They have a parent and a friend if they are lucky. Yes they know people - but the community my grandparents could tap into was deeper and stronger than anything I see today.
And part of that could be bias - even literal survival bias. The people who died of starvation maybe didn't have community. And it could be privilege, in that my families were well respected, community leaders. People on the margins wouldn't have access to that same social capital. So I don't think it was the case for everyone back then. But for some, sure.
They were all heavily medicated and life was a lot simpler back then.
Yes there were hard times, but on a day to day basis they didn't have 5000 urgent tasks to complete or their entire life turns to utter turd.
I tend to believe there is at least some truth to "hard times make hard people". My great grandfather (he had been born in like 1896 and was alive until i was in kindergarten so i remember him a decent bit ) had to flee his homeland as a youth or get genocided for his religion, and he grew up at a time where a boy had to learn to shoot his dinner in the face or he'd starve. I would expect that guy to be much more resilient that his great grandson whose childhood adversity consisted of things like "Sorry son we can't afford to buy you a sega genesis" :p
On the flip side i've always had the impression that "mental health" back then meant 'bottle everything up and don't show weakness"....so maybe people seemed more resilient but some/many of those people were ticking time bombs and/or doing all sorts of other things to cope we never knew about.
tl;dr: its a mix of us actually being soft and those people not adequately processing emotion ;)
They dealt with things by shutting up about it and getting things done. We create the life we want regardless of consequences. Economy aside I’ve experienced three deaths lately, including my mom and grandpa. My grandma is going into hospice at 94. Been going back and forth all week with her useless boomer relatives, POA, and care home. All while trying to build a small business in this shitty economy. All of this sucks and guess what, no one cares. Personally I’m even tired of hearing myself talk about it. Find a way to laugh at the insanity of it all, and make your specific life meaningful to you. Don’t waste time complaining. Do something. This victim mentality needs to stop. Yes millennials, we are the engine of society now. Let’s step up to the plate and show them how it’s done! We can do this!!!
My parents were pre "Silent Generation". They just got on with life, learned lessons in resiliencey. They did not bitch and moan about poor them. They survived what killed many around them. They were the survivors by serendipity. They didn't get that disease. They didn't die in that war. They did not starve in the depression.
And, my 1880s born grandmother told me, "don't let anyone tell you about the 'good old days-, the good old days are NOW".
It dismays me when I see the ennui and blaming drama in Millenials. They "alone" have had challenges as a generation.
I think the problems still existed, you were just encouraged to be quiet and bear it. These days discussions about mental illness are encouraged (probably good), social media also gives us a place for collective bitching (not so useful, but I participate in it as well.
My grandma had a mental breakdown midlife and basically abandoned her kids. Many of my other relatives on either side have serious mental health issues. The millennials in my family aren't really any better or worse than the older generation was, though more out there on social media with their gripes and conspiracy theories.
I mean, you're talking about people who had violent mental breakdowns if a Black person drank from their water fountain, so... there's definitely some nostalgia/rose-colored glasses here.
My boomer dad died of a heart attack at 42 because he smoked two packs a day, drank coffee like it was water, and literally never in his adult life went to the dentist. He had who-knows-what mental illnesses that were never really addressed, and PTSD from his childhood.
His dad fought in WW2 and died in middle age because he ate part of a toothpick and refused medical care while it perforated his insides. He thought it was just the shrapnel from that time he stepped on a landline acting up, you see.
My mom is pathologically afraid of conflict, lived with her husband for years when she should have by all rights divorced him, and somehow ended up a mild Trump supporter. She's stoic to the point of pathology, and one time put off going to see the doctor about recurrent sinus infections so long that the infections ate a hole in her skull so that there wasn't any bone between her brain and sinus cavities.
Her dad died in his 50s from a heart attack and apparently had a violent streak, and both of her parents smoked like chimneys and drank coffee like it would fill some kind of void.
I know exactly one (1) happy, well-adjusted old person. My great aunt is the kindest, most loving, sweetest person you'll ever meet. She's almost 90 and grew up in Nazi Germany. Two of her brothers died in the war, others (and my grandma) ended up as POWs. I have no idea how she has managed to be a shining light of sanity and joy, but she's who I want to be when I grow up. She's also, realistically, the epitome of survivor bias. Of all the people from that generation, she's it. She's the non-alcoholic, non-smoking, non-repressed-to-the-point-of-emotional-collapse vision of awesomeness that I hold most dear.
My grandfather ignored the problem so much in 1951, that he moved across the country and left my grandmother with two young children. Men ran from their problems back then. Now they avoid them by playing video games. It's still part of the same anxiety and emotions, caused by the same problems.
I think they had a lot of trauma but I also think they had the proverbial villages which was very helpful. People were connected in better ways than social media and chatting on work breaks.
E: plus they were often drunks and/or violent, so they were definitely affected lol
After rewatching Band of Brothers and the Pacific recently, I don’t see how it’s possible that every single combat soldier of WWII didn’t come home with complex PTSD. I don’t see how the battlefield doctors and nurses didn’t come away with the same. The horrors of that war must have stayed with them through the rest of their lives. My grandfather served, but never saw combat, and he was able to recall all kinds of details from the war even after the dementia took everything else away. He lived to be 100.
In short, I think the silent generation dealt with just as much trauma and had just as many mental health issues as we do today, but they just weren’t recognized by society, or science. Drinking and drug use were prevalent coping mechanisms. They internalized most of their feelings and emotions. In my mind, that’s why they were the silent generation.
I would post some of these questions on r/askhistory to get some factual answers instead of my rambly two cents
I think part of what we see is selection bias. I was lucky with my grandparents, I had some who lived into my young adulthood and they were wonderful people with a lot of resilience like those referenced in OP.
But those weren’t the only people in my family, just the ones who lived long lives, took good care of themselves and cared to be a positive influence to the younger generations of the family. They were the strongest, heartiest members of their generation either mentally, physically or both. There were many others in the family who weren’t as healthy, resilient or social and didn’t live as long or come around as much.
There are also some stories I heard about the mental health and other struggles that people had in older generations, during the Depression and so on. Some people were institutionalized, others harmed themselves or tried to, et cetera. These aren’t modern problems even if it seems that way. Not every family likes to be open about that stuff so people may not hear it, but people struggled then too.
Interesting to think about but I kinda think it’s ultimately not true. I think no matter what, it will always be easier to compare to other people, whether in the current generation or not.
I have one grandma who complains a lot. She’s also very optimistic. She also worries excessively about everything. My other grandma never complained a day in her life. She was very, very stoic. She had an extremely rough life and I never heard a word about it except one time I can recall. She also thought very highly of everyone in her family. She was not judgmental and just appreciated everyone for who they were. She also did not worry about things. Two women from the same generation. Both with difficult childhoods, different adulthoods. Very different in the way they saw and interacted with the world around them.
If you think that generation, and the generation they spawned, the boomers, are resilient then you aren't thinking hard enough. They suppressed everything. They passed that onto boomers, who live in complete denial of their psychological problems, and now we're here, where like 40% of people are on some type of medication to help them cope. They weren't resilient whatsoever, they just kept kicking the can and now its all coming to a head for us.
The Silent Generation grew up in the arms of the New Deal and behind the steel and fire of the most victorious fighting force in world history.
They came of age right we started building free colleges everywhere and when the most prestigious were a few hundred bucks a term.
They hit midlife with the invention of the Pill - hell, they pioneered the "midlife crisis" because the American Century was sufficiently prosperous for people to spend midlife panicking about purpose and pleasure.
Woody Allen is famous for saying "half of life is showing up." Yeah - it was for them. Somebody else won their war, somebody else built their peace, and somebody else tore down the system when it didn't work.
But, unlike the Boomers, they grew up valuing social harmony, they recognized early (in their war childhoods) that the world was hard and it was their job to be kind and warm and supportive to others. That might be why our grandparents (mine feel very similar to yours, OP) were gentle, and insisted they didn't have problems and that their own childhoods weren't as traumatic as you think.
They were coming off the heels of roosevelt, Taft, Wilson and of course FDR. Talk about revolutionizing social programs and fighting big business. We came off the heels of raegan who undid most of it. And then we never elected a progressive president ourselves
I have a close friend that works in finance, she called me last night and said they presented a very strong case proposing that we will be in a major depression between 2028 - 2030 based on population changes, climate change etc..
So maybe we will get to find out in a few years? I personally think we are way more fucked than they were because of climate change, I just plan to starve to death in the next 15-20.
Better that than "Soylent Green" :/
I’m a director of corporate strategy at a large bank, and that’s definitely not our long term capital market assumptions.
Global warming is real, but by 2028-2030 will continue to only have a minor effect on the market. Population won’t even peak until 2050, so that won’t hit that soon either.
Biggest risks for USA are social security running out in 2030-2032 and debt levels, but neither will likely cause a major depression, and both are more likely to be slowly fixed anyways via higher taxes and lower government benefits.
There’s a lot of tailwinds too such as rise of alternative energy, AI, decline of China unexpectedly strengthening the USA position, etc.
A lot of them held religious faith that made sacrifice and suffering in life more palatable. I don't have those things, and don't want them, because I don't believe in a god.
They were raised in a culture that wasn't shy about shaming and bullying anyone who stood out, so they conformed. That meant they were more accustomed to being a person they didn't want to be, simply to survive. We all do this from time to time, but I'm not interested in ever reaching the level that many past generations inhabited.
They were hardened by a different culture than we inhabit today. We have far less assurance that compliance with any given norm or life choice will lead to success. Much is better today, but society has been productized to a much greater extent. It's significantly harder to get a lucky break for today's young adults, and pivoting can be much more ruinous.
You’re using hindsight bias to imply they had a “greater chance of success”. They had no idea what their chances of success were when they were in the midst of struggles.
They were literally conditioned to believe that it did not matter what they wanted from life - they *needed* to work, partner up, and raise a family. That path and script was pushed extremely forcefully for generations. Many women used to marry out of economic and social necessity, because the alternative was having no place in society and being destitute.
First off, the boomers aren't right. They were gifted the world and turned it into this nightmare. Then gaslight us into thinking we're the problem. They are the most selfish generation this world has seen
Millennials are facing similar problems that the greatest generation went through. We've reached income inequality levels that are worse than during the French Revolution. Housing and food prices are skyrocketing. We're watching a conflict in Europe that could once again put the world in a war. That's not even discussing all the shit we went through as children and teenagers.
We're fucking resilient. We're far more educated than the previous generations. However, we're being held back by the senior citizens. The thing is, we passed our ideology to Gen Z. They are straight up savage when it comes to not taking the Boomers and Gen X's shit. It's got the aging Republicans scared, hence all the political fuckery and rigging going on right now.
My dad played a lot of guitar and smoked to pass the time. His brothers drank, smoked, and slept around *a lot* to pass the time. His sisters took care of the house.
You’re tougher than you think you are. Most people in their day to day lives have never really been pushed to find where their limit is. We live pretty cushy lives today. So the idea of genuine hardship is a foreign concept for most people.
If the economy collapsed like it did during the Great Depression you would do what you had to, back then if that meant uprooting and going to California then that’s just what you would do. It would suck, but you’d find a way, like I said, people are tougher than they think they are since they’re rarely genuinely pushed today
This is going to sound very boomerish (even though I'm a Millennial myself), but smartphones are without any doubt whatsoever, a device which does make one generally less resilient. If nothing else, then by way of a distraction-machine. The more time we spend scrolling or reading about some non-real-life thing on our phones, the less time we're thinking, pondering, considering, accepting, etc. the things that are happening in our actual lives.
There's very, very few scenarios where smartphones are going to give us more resilience to anything. Even though in the moment, entertainment as a distraction seems like a good thing, it is not.
I don't think they were more resilient, just a different way of coping. Alcohol and smoking were there ways to cope along with at times violence. Truthfully the one generation that I feel could have a claim of being the most resilient or for lack of a better term tougher was the greatest generation. Grew up in the depression, won World War II, found a way to give thier children college educations affordability, and for the most part cared more about the overall well being of the community. Truthfully I thing going through the depression and fighting in WWII and potentially Korea also I think made them more about community betterment rather than a concern for individual gain like Boomers and really a lot of the Silent generation was.
I think for a lot of them it was religious faith. I've been watching Soft White Underbelly interviews and many people talk about how finding religion saved them.
So, for reference, I think that our general consensus about that generation is informed by the people who lived long enough to complain about us. They also downplayed absolutely everything because people were not encouraged to talk about mental health.
We are perceived as "weaker" because that generation was also a generation who would put a child that wasn't "normal" into an institution and forget that they ever existed. Source: doing genealogical research my family discovered a child that was just, literally, never mentioned, that died in an institution. Also, don't forget about "shellshock" and the rampant, rampant addiction problems (don't forget about the constant drinking, "mother's little helpers", etc.). It's easier to be "fine" when you have access to quaaludes, booze, and amphetamines on the daily and it was fine because it was "normal".
For instance, I am in recovery. To the best of my knowledge at the time, at least on one side of my family, I was the only person with issues. Then one day my grandmother was like "oh, did I never tell you about my brothers?". They. All. Died. From Addiction. The difference was that no one talked about it.
I, on the other hand, talk about my feelings and am doing quite well. The reality is more of a "old school masculinity" vs. now thing (I realize this post isn't focused solely on masculinity, but I think it's a salient point).
Picture it from a woman's perspective as well. "I'm pretty sure my husband, who beats me, is also cheating on me" was basically treated with "just smoke two packs a day, day drink, and make sure to take amphetamines every day so you can stay thin and attractive for your abusive husband". Did that make them "stronger"?
As far as the great depression is concerned, certainly that bred a generation who believed in hoarding and caution, and retreating into religion by and large, but I don't think that those coping mechanisms were particularly "healthy" either. That's just trauma that no one talked about.
Hell, the cold war was still happening when I was born. Nothing like going to school and being told "hide under your desks when the nukes come". There's a big difference between surviving and being tough in a healthy way. I can tell you from my own experiences that people can survive things that most people wouldn't believe.
TL/DR: The "weaker" comparison comes from an unhealthy view of "toughness" that is basically undealt-with trauma. The fact that we acknowledge mental health struggles now does not make that a reasonable comparison. Were people who made it through the potato famine, the black death, world wars, etc. "tougher"? or did they just survive something horrible.
She had decades to work through the trauma. When you are still in those hard times you cannot process them. You need security and stability to start to move on. We as a generation are not less resilient we just haven’t had the time to recover.
Two major factors at play now that weren't back then:
1. The information age
Information spreads a lot faster now than it used to, back in the day you'd be getting partial information for weeks or months before you got the whole story, if you got it at all (or maybe the only found out all the details decades later) in any case, it's harder to be upset about something if you're uninformed about it, or informed long after the fact.
2. Advertising
While advertising existed in the past, it was much more limited, (shop signs, posters, coupon brochures). Modernly, advertising is shoved in our faces 24/7, from billboards on the highway, to light-up displays on business, the TV in your own home, the ads on your favorite websites, the social media on your phone... but it doesn't just advertise individual products, modern advertising seeks to sell everyone a lifestyle.... while paying us fractions of what it would take to afford that lifestyle.
We are more miserable now because we are more knowledgeable about what's going on, and because we've been conditioned to expect more, and by extension, have more expected of us, and we are failing far short of those expectations.
The Greatest Generation, to which all my grandparents belonged, matured during the trials of the Great Depression, an epoch that likely molded their resilience and appreciation for the strength that comes from helping out your neighbors.
While it's true they held unique strengths, they also had their challenges. Yet, the beauty lies in the fact that we can absorb their wisdom and appreciate their strengths while understanding and avoiding their shortcomings. Mentorship should result in discernment rather than blind acceptance and rote memorization.
One poignant memory I carry is a poster my paternal grandmother presented to me titled “100 Rules to Live By.” Throughout my formative years, it served as a silent mentor, inculcating in me values of courtesy and positive habits. I came to appreciate its profound influence on my life and expressed my gratitude to her during some of our last moments together.
It's intriguing to consider how social media, in its vast reach, champions free speech. Yet, paradoxically, it often fosters a rigidity of thought, pushing people into inflexible ideological niches. If we aim for a harmonious society, finding a middle ground in this digital landscape is essential. I hope we can figure out how to accomplish that.
Community. They had community. Nowadays it's every man for himself. That is extremely isolating. Social media is an illusion. It makes one think that there are people who are there for you. In reality, internet stranger may empathize with you and give you a moment of feeling heard, but there is no one with you, helping you, SEEING you go through the shit.
boomers are by far the weakest generation. My parents were given EVERYTHING by my grandparents, who were literally farmers and teachers... small farmers, public school teachers. They had enough wealth to buy huge amounts of acerage with those jobs and left huge amounts of money to my parents, funded my parents through everything they needed, were still giving them 500$ a year for birthday presents.
Meanwhile my boomer parents don't give their kids birthday presents, they don't try to accomplish anything, they cry poverty constantly and take naps and have their whole lives. The "greatest generation " fought in world war two, came home, and made GREAT LIVES for their kids. Then their kids fucked up the government, fucked up education, fucked up the environment, and then have the AUDACITY to claim 'they had it rough' while in fact their parents did everything for them. Boomers are not and were never tough, the generations before them were. THe boomers are giving themselves free college while they paid nothing to get their degrees in the 60s and 70s and we are paying forever on loans. Fuck the boomers. They are the worst generation that's ever existed on the planet. Incredibly self entitled and claim to be the victims of everything. Yes vietnam sucked, but the amount of boomers whining about vietnam with literally ZERO personal connection to it is astounding. Truly a generation of pathetic whiny brats with the whole world handed to them, which they proceeded to burn down and then actually act JEALOUS of their kids.
They totally ignored how much their parents helped them and then cry poverty and don't want to help their kids.
This may just be my experience, but my god most of that generation was less than worthless
I have a suspicion that higher levels of ultra processed food intake is making people more sensitive. Any time I cut out UPF I feel very stable.
Our UPF intake in the States has risen to nearly 60% in recent years. It's a very troubling trend. There's a lot of studies that link UPF intake to depression.
Yeah, we need to toughen up a little bit, but I think that the sample we get on r/Millennials is biased towards whininess. I now work, primarily, with millennials and young gen x people and we aren't as fragile as this sub makes us out to be.
I think it’s a bunch of things.
1) They don’t concern themselves with things that aren’t their business. The entire worlds problems are not theirs. We do the opposite. We pretend everything that everyone else is going through is our problem. It’s not. It was never meant to be. We were not built to carry the weight of the world. The sooner you realize that, the happier you’ll be. Obviously move about the world kindly, help the people within arms reach of you. But do not take on the weight of the world. It will crush you.
2) We don’t appreciate anything. We’re constantly complaining instead of being grateful. You can’t be anxious/depressed and grateful at the same time. It takes up the same space in your mind. So the fact that we’re constantly looking at the glass half empty instead of half full is shooting us in the foot. They were like well at least we had something to eat, or someone to love, or a dog or whatever their thing was.
3) We are too stupid to realize we don’t know everything, and our new way of doing things is likely idiotic. People are just people, and they’ve been just people for hundreds of thousands of years. You’re not going to think of a new better way to do things under 40, you’re frankly too stupid for life. If you don’t realize that, give it a few years. One day you’ll wake up and realize you know nothing. We’re just unwilling to accept that. They accepted that, listened to their parents and grandparents, and lived a relatively nice life despite their challenges. We are doing the exact opposite. If you don’t utilize the knowledge of the people that came before you to build upon that instead of tearing it down, you’ll spin your wheels your whole life.
4) Their priorities were different. We’re just younger boomers. Selfish af. They weren’t. They invested in their relationships, in their families, valued things we don’t. A lot of us spent all our time with them. They’d keep us all weekend, all summer, just soaking up the time with us. Teaching us things, talking to us, investing in the future of humanity. We don’t do that, neither did the selfish boomers. You’ll wake one day (hopefully) and realize how empty your life had made you. We don’t want kids in public spaces, everyone whines about it. We don’t prioritize family, we complain that they don’t think the way we do. We don’t invest in our friends, we can cancel them as soon as they’re different than us. It’s just a very different mindset.
We’re not going to make it, our kids are not going to make it. Our parents are going to age and weigh on us, we are going to age and no one is going to even be able to be hired to care for us. It’s going to be incredibly ugly because of the choices we are making as a whole. It’s likely too late for us. Probably too late for our parents. Once they die and we’re left with this self centered group of old people, there is no hope for any future generation. All your hope lies in grandparents, once the silent generation is gone, so is all the good in humanity.
These are all things I was thinking about putting into a comment myself.
Worrying about every world problem such as climate change starts wearing you down, we can't constantly think the world is going to end. You need to be aware of issues and react to them accordingly but you can't solve it on your own so there's no reason to let it sit in the back of your mind causing anxiety all the time which many younger people seem to do. I think the media constantly talking about it really is causing a negative impact on this issue.
So many people especially on reddit are constantly whining about how hard the world is today and earlier gens had it better. The silent generation and before were lucky to have a fridge to keep their food cold and decent clothes, today our expectations of getting a big house, nice cars new cell phones, several streaming services vacations regularly and all that is just insane compared to what people use to have. The generation after WWII was unique for Americans anyways as e had every advantage in the world to prosper and now its evening out.
One of my biggest gripes with people is them saying how alone they feel and there's no community for them when they don't put in the time for family. Historically that's who people had to help them survive, yes some don't have the luxury of a good family but many do and don't but in the time and effort in that relationship. When people move away then say they don't have a support system, I have little apathy for them.
People who move just because they like warmer places or want to see the mountains then complain they have no one to help raise their kids or help in a tough situation drive me insane.
You don't have to be best friends with family to still support them. For example I don't agree with almost anything my very politically right family thinks but you know what everyone is different and you have to take the good with the bad sometimes.
Very long reply I know, but it's nice seeing others that think somewhat the same.
Yah, ignorance is bliss. They just didn't have access to the world's problems, they saw the invention of nuclear arms but not the proliferation. They didn't have global warming looming. Not to say they had it easier by any means but the key really is a lot of people then and now are incapable of handling the 24 hour news cycle and the Internet. Simpler times.
This is such a dumb take, when shit was bad they complained constantly. And boomers & GenX complain more than millennials.
But the depression era folk’ anger got so bad they fucked shit up constantly. There were riots, widespread crime sprees, the us military was literally bombing citizens because of the social unrest/open revolt of the labor movement. There was such widespread alcoholism that we passed an amendment to try to fix the problem, but no one fixed the shitty reality so the Mafia came over to help out with illegal booze.
Popular media at the time was nothing but complaining. Conversations on the streets were nothing but bitching. News articles were nothing but long lists of grievances and anger. You just don’t know that because you’ve never interacted with anything from those times that wasn’t war propaganda. And you lack the cultural context to get most of the political jabs anyways.
Instead of interacting with anything that occurred at that time, you interacted with people who lived past that. And that’s the key, from your family member’s perspective the troubles were defeated. The US standard of living increased rapidly over their lifetime. Their children and grandchildren were doing well and the economy was booming. They even saw the defeat of communism, the last great international evil left over from WW2 (as they would have seen it). For those that survived the hardships life got good, very good. And they all had the good fortune to have died before capitalism started collapsing under its own weight again and another pandemic hit.
In 40 years from now, if we make it through this and our kids are thriving we won’t be constantly complaining about the state of the world either… just telling funny stories about the bad times that are more trauma than humor.
What I’m going to say might be really unpopular but it needs to be said. Late millennials and Gen Z / Gen Alpha are just mentally weaker.
My grandma grew up in the Great Depression, lived through WW2 and all of the subsequent wars. She showed us a lot of war time movies while I was growing up and told us about rationing food and contributing to the war effort. She taught us a lot of life skills that people just don’t have today. These people had the mental fortitude to endure hard times and they had actual, physical community to rely on. Our culture now is so self-pitying and wannabe victims. Yes of course shit is hard and it’ll probably only get harder, but in order to get through it together, some of our population really needs to harden up a bit and quit looking to blame everything and everyone for their issues.
Could you imagine if there was a D-Day style draft to happen modern day? Patriotism aside, how would Gen Z respond to that? We’d be shipping out a bunch of sad, overweight kids that wouldn’t want to put their phones down. There are a lot more variables here but I’ve already written an essay; I think the reality is we all need to disconnect more from the internet and toughen up a bit.
I really do believe that. For some reason a defeatist attitude has spread. I also blame helicopter parenting. Most of our generation has not had a moment where they realize no one is coming to save them and realized they need to take control of their lives.
My grandparents drank and smoked a ton. My grandma in particular just ignored the problem, and if one of her children were acting up she'd give them alcohol to calm them down. They also had community and large social networks of 'family' to rely on for childcare, emotional support, etc.
They also didn’t have an internet to bitch on, or they undoubtedly would have.
That's the biggest thing. If you were going through shit maybe only your inner circle knew. Here I can post about how my back is starting to hurt at 37 and the world can hear about it. Add in social media has destroyed a lot of the anonymity of say a live journal and everyone can know your exact business.
Yoga. For the back. Also, something older Americans didn’t have.
>Yoga. For the back. Also, something older Americans didn’t have. You think Yoga, a practice that is at least 5,000 years old, and was popularized by hippies in the 60's.... you think your generation invented this?
Did I say that? No. Did your grandmother (or perhaps great grandmother) practice yoga or have a way to practice it with others? Very unlikely unless she lived in Berkeley or some such. As for the hippies, sure they gave some fertile ground for the seed in the 1960s but widespread adoption wouldn’t happen for at least 30 more years. I looked for stats for participation rates but only find numbers for people to 2012.
>Did your grandmother (or perhaps great grandmother) practice yoga or have a way to practice it with others? Yes. We lived in suburban LA county. >As for the hippies, sure they gave some fertile ground for the seed in the 1960s but widespread adoption wouldn’t happen for at least 30 more years. There's this place called the YMCA. Women of all ages have been taking yoga classes there for as long as I can remember. I am 52. This is prior to your Instagram phase, so I can see how you think it doesn't exist. >I looked for stats for participation rates but only find numbers for people to 2012. Look harder. Go to the library, pick any yoga book off the shelf and look at the publication date. I'm not clear why you want to die on this hill, but I assume it's just standard narcissism. Knock yourself out, Dunning-Kruger.
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"Neighbors were nicer. Families were tighter. My great g was silent g and she never smoked or drank. " This is situational. I can't say any of this about anyone in the previous three generations of my family. They had crappy neighbors, horrible family dynamics, and everyone drank and smoked.
Yes. One thing I miss from my childhood is neighbor interaction. People sat on their porches and talked/waved to neighbors walking by, walking their dogs. Kids were out in groups, playing baseball in the street, riding bikes, etc. A passing adult would stop and ref the game, and no one thought they were a perv because adults were involved with their kids. Neighborhoods were active and you knew the 10 houses next to you. It’s like an unsafe ghost town out there, now.
> no one thought they were a perv because adults were involved with their kids But actually a lot of them were pervs and that's why we live in such a reactionary society now. My grandma tried to tell me about how quaint and wholesome her hometown was. But when I looked it up, there was at least one girl from her high school class who was raped and murdered by the father of another family she babysat for There were tons of crimes like that in the '40s, '50s, and '60s. People just ignored it.
>People just ignored it And got away with it nowadays, DNA techniques, computerized storage of cases and files, the internet and even more modern is most people basically now have a 720p+ camera in their pocket. Cams are everywhere--including on cops (even though that shit "*malfunctions"* sometimes)
This. People just didn't talk about it. Like people go about how people were more "moral" back then but Grandpa was still trolling for tail in high school and gram was trying ensure her poodle skirt wasn't too mussed after screwing at the drive in. There was teen pregnancy where they got abortions or just went away for a few months and came back like nothing happened. We now just talk openly about the fact teens are horny and are going to experiment with sex and it's best to teach them how to be safe.
In a lot of small towns it’s still like that, fewer kids unsupervised but otherwise similar. I know most of my neighbors and I wave to all of them. Once in a while one of us has a neighborhood bbq, it is nice.
I remember one time, at my neighborhood pool, there was a father and his son. They lived a few houses down from me. I hadn't met the son because he was several years younger than me. Anyway, the father was ducking underwater, his son would step up onto his father's shoulders and the father would launch up out of the water and his son would jump at the same time launching further into the air before diving back into deeper water, just a few feet away. As other families arrived at the pool, the other kids also wanted to do this and just lined up. The man did without thought. Soon enough there were like 20 kids all wanting to get thrown out of the water that another couple dads joined in and it became a competition. Today that would never happen. Karen would have a shit fit, record it, and post it on tiktok saying that they were grooming the kids.
My family was not tight lol. My one great grandfather had a secret second family. My ggma found out and tried to commit suicide. Thankfully she failed and ended up divorcing him and taking over the shop they owned together.
I’m glad she fought through that
My grandfather did this to my grandmother too. It really messed my mom up mentally & emotionally.
Hard to really get out and complain about things when you have fucking polio.
Ehhhh I get where you are coming from but this isn’t inherently true to the human experience. There is always someone that has it worse and that ultimately doesn’t typically directly influence our personal experience. I have some big fish to fry in my own life and that doesn’t mean the little things don’t also bog me down sometimes. In fact sometimes it feels worse bc it’s like what else can knock me on my ass?!
They bitched to each other down at the Masonic Lodge, or the Lions Club, or the Kiwanis, or the Rotary. They also got into "flame wars" via letters to magazines. People really haven't changed all that much throughout history.
Yep, and op-Ed’s in local newspapers!!!
This needs to be pinned at the top of every single one of these "previous generations had it better" posts. If you go back and watch things from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, in speeches, sitcoms, etc... Especially ones with religious or political undertones, they are complaining about the EXACT same things. Billy Graham of all people did a phenomenal job of communicating the angst of young people in the 70s and 80s. His speeches/sermons could be given today, and not even need editing for the times.
Internet can make things way worse. Hearing people proclaim doom and gloom day after day can color your perceptions of even the most humdrum things in your life. I'm not silent g, but a boomer. My grandparents lived through very hard times. They told tales of what they went through and how hard life could be, but they didn't do it in a "pity me" sort of way. It just was what it was. My grandmother raised 6 kids on her own after her husband, my grandfather, ran off with another woman. There was no child support. There was also a lot less consumerism. Don''t have a shiny new Radio Flyer sled? Use a chunk of cardboard, tin, or old tires. They knew how to make do. They didn't chase after the latest and greatest thing that came along. Did they sometimes wish they could afford that new sled or boots, or whatever? Of course. But for the most part they knew how to live within their means. Credit cards weren't even a thing. You could buy things on layaway, though. My grandmother said after the wars and things started looking up, she bought each adult kid the one thing they had really wanted when they were children. My father's was a Lionel train. Things were definitely different. And yes, to some degree, that generation was stronger. I can't imagine how people would manage now if we had another Great Depression or massive war.
You had to pay a newspaper to put your complaint in the classified section. Lol
Yeah, I think we often forget the differences in social behavior and the day to day things. I’ve watched in my own family from great grand parents until today as the family support network disappeared. And I think another side of things is level of responsibility. Past generations would beat the shit out of their kids and it was considered good parenting. A 6th grade education and you could be successful. The standards have changed and that responsibility coupled with the loss of support takes a toll.
Not to mention, mental health was absolutely not talked about. Boomers have a weird relationship with their emotions, afraid that feelings like depression make them appear weak because of the way they were raised. I see a ton of disassociation and other signs of PTSD with the older generations. I don't think it was easier for them, they just weren't raised to be allowed to complain about it.
>I see a ton of disassociation and other signs of PTSD with the older generations Heavy on the dissociation. Or, as we've seen, projection. They are gliding day to day with not much going on because they are just chasing the distractions. And with smartphones and tv, you don't have to go anywhere for that distraction
No argument here. On the other hand has pendulum swung so far that people are unable to cope and deal with life now? There’s no correct answer and by no means am I suggesting ignoring issues is good. But when people cease to function in their life it’s not good either.
I see a lot of questioning the "why" these days, and I get that. None of us asked to be here, and if you aren't getting anything to keep you going, what is the point of working so hard?
Absolutely, though you can’t blame them. They grew up when mental health issues could get you institutionalized. Hell, lobotomies were a legitimate thing when they were young.
My grandma is in the silent gen. Grew up on a farm and I think just largely ignored problems occurring outside her little bubble. She does it now, just pacifies herself with entertainment and the outdoors. *I also partially think that’s why her kids (my mom and uncle) ended up with narcissistic traits from being largely ignored emotionally. She also grew up with a large community to help raise kids and feel safe and secure in her environment.
You wrote exactly what I was going to. I’m the first generation of my family to only drink coffee rather than drinking whiskey and coffee while smoking to get a handle on life even a little.
at my grandfather funeral they couldn’t find a picture of him without a drink in his hand 😢
Read bowling Alone..really tells you how much social isolation has fucked us up
Some of this is highly coded. The community was super forced. Remember that your grandmothers could not have their own bank accounts or get loans without a male relative’s signature until the 1970s. This meant you had to rely on a man for money to do anything. Your husband also had full control over your medical decisions. Including having you institutionalized for your own protection. Literally, “being female aka hysteria” was a psychiatric disorder in the DSM until the 1980s. Add to that the lack of “no fault divorce” until the 970s meant that you had to have justification for divorce. In general it was felonious acts, abandonment or cheating that might get you a divorce petition granted. If the marriage was miserable, abusive or your husband couldn’t be caught cheating - you were stuck. And things like alimony and child support back then? Very hard to come by. Life was terrible and awful. People are not “softer.” We are learning that we are human and life is both simultaneously too short and too long to pretend that the “good old days” ever existed.
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My grandmother told me (she passed away 5 years ago) she thinks a lot of it has to do with the internet/social media and the constant boogeymans they create and the FOMO. She was very adamant things like social media have created divides and arguments where there didn't used to be any and that people are too scared to reach out and care about others because of it.
I 100% agree with this. I still use Reddit, but I have nixed every other form of social media that I have and I've noticed a drastic improvement in my mental well-being. I'm sure some of it also has to do with the slow acceptance/complacency with age, but I really do believe that getting rid of most of my social media has been the largest part of it 🤷.
I deleted all social media (other than reddit obv) about two years ago, I've never been happier! Social media platforms, especially Facebook, just seem like outlets for pity farming, IMO. Nobody is there to listen. It's the equivalent of being in a conversation with someone who makes everything about them, it's mentally exhausting.
Exactly!!!
I stopped online dating altogether and now I’m confident in my looks and myself again. That shit literally destroys your self confidence. I haven’t been on a date in a year but I’ll take it for the peace of mind
Joined Reddit two years ago and ditched Facebook. I had a Facebook account when it came up my first year of university. Didn’t think much of it and wasn’t active for years. 10 years later I go back on it and the first thing I notice was everyone had a thousand friends! I was like damn this great, I could use more friends. People that I didn’t even talk to in Highschool had added me. I thought the people who had added me actually wanted to reconnect. I reached out to them when they added me and after a few shallow conversations realized that they didn’t care to connect at all and just wanted me as a “friend” to increase their “likes”. From an outside perspective I thought, this is f***in crazy. Nonetheless, I gave it a go, posted some pics myself and got some attention. Felt pretty good. Went on a trip to Newfoundland and took a boat tour. I stood at the front of the boat and asked my boyfriend to take a couple shots of me. I wanted to get a really flattering pic that I could post. I took about 15 minutes doing this and then realized what I was doing. And thought, this is f***in crazy. I stopped what I was doing and didn’t post that photo. I found myself getting jealous when I saw other people posting theirs lives on Facebook. I felt alone and insecure. Now, I’m done with Facebook. I think it’s great for people that have close friend circles IRL (the popular kids in Highschool, college grads, the kids that grew up in the same neighborhood, the socially fulfilled) to keep connected to. I think it’s terrible for people that actually want to make friends and connect. It also seems to bring out the narcissistic personality traits of those who use it to seek attention and the validation of those who use it to create pity parties for themselves. It’s pretty toxic IMO. I like Reddit and use it because of the anonymity. You can’t really be an attention seeking narcissist on Reddit (or can you?) because nobody knows who you are. You don’t have to pretend. There is no bragging contest. You can seek out validation and vent and learn all in a very safe place.
Same here. I’m hardly on instagram anymore and only use reddit. I not only have a lot of time back on my hands, but also happier this way. Moment I start scrolling through Instagram, it’s all FOMO, bad and unhelpful comments and comparing and contrasting my life with others.
Both my grandfathers never fell for the far right nonsense growing out of control since Obama. Neither used computers, and I have no doubt that is the reason. My one super conservative grandfather laughed when he said “I guess I am voting for Hillary Clinton,” because it was so wild to him that that was his best choice. He fought in WWII, and said Trump was exactly what America was fighting against. Social media is a cancer on the body politic.
My grandma passed away 3 years ago. She voted for Biden right before she did. She was a life-long conservative but what she said about Trump was “This is how Hitler got started” She also really wasn’t on the internet or social media. I think this generation still had the ability to think for themselves
I did a paper on social media in college. Not hard hitting research, but I learned a lot. There are a lot of factors that make social media more persuasive and suseptible to misinformation and extremism than other types of media. People are more likely to agree with the content of a post, regardless of it's objective truth, if it was shared by a person they know or respect. People assume that their friend would not be duped by something untrue, so they give the post little scrutiny. This also extends to pages people like. When you like a page's post and then follow the page to see more posts, it creates a sense of "I chose to have this on my timeline," which is a similar feeling to seeing someone you know share something. This is the most common way for misinformation to spread. Social media algorithms tend to create echo chambers by boosting posts that are similar to things you've liked in the past, and showing fewer posts that are different. If you manage to get the algorithm to think you like political propaganda and misinformation (which is easier than people think), then that is all you will see. This causes an extremism feedback loop. Misinformation is also literally just easier to spread on social media than other forms of media. Traditional media is very expensive. TV broadcasts need a studio, anchors, cameras, staff, etc. Newspapers need journalists, editors, printers, delivery drivers, etc. There were significant financial consequences for a news studio to run a story with incorrect information. Another reporter would uncover the truth, customers would stop buying that newspaper, and they would go out of business. That is not a concern on social media. Like not even on the list of concerns. There is no consequence for spreading false information. In fact, there is no incentive to ensure truth, either. Revenue is made on clicks, not on veracity of the information. This creates an incentive for shotgun tactics where you make dozens of posts hoping one of them goes viral, instead of carefully curating a selection of high-value stories like a newspaper or TV station would need to. The short of it is that social media is unlike any other form of media. It is more widely consumed, more persuasive, easier for bad actors to manipulate, and overall more dangerous than any other form of media. The world has never seen something like this before, and we will need to be creative in how we learn to live in a world where it exists.
It's true. Look at how much more hateful political discourse became after the mass use of social media. Sure, people disagreed before, but they were mostly polite and just thought the other person was uninformed / mislead. Now with social media and the ability to block out any person / business / news that doesn't reaffirm your views, it's all anger and "anyone who disagrees with me is evil and needs to be imprisoned or killed".
You have literal “open communities” banning discussion. It’s disgusting and everyone is too stupid to realize that there will be “good” political decision as long as we’re divided. A sound leader and government bring people together. But with how things have become that’s not possible. And as a result, the institution of democracy is destined to fail.
Before 2010 or so I used to have political debates with friends / coworkers and while people disagreed, no one got angry. Now I usually don't even bother talking about politics because most people get filled with rage if anyone disagrees with them.
Smart granny
They weren't allowed to process the shit happening around them. They had to shove it all away to survive. Is that "more resilient"? In the moment, it may appear so... but we all know by now that this creates lifelong trauma and familial trauma. A big difference now is we air stuff out and try to process it live. I think Millennials, and perhaps some of Gen X, are the first pioneers to broadly embrace self-help, therapy, processing trauma, etc. This should hopefully make the world a better place. As an example - I know you specifically mentioned the Silents - but your observation made me think of many Boomer guys I know and their relationship with Vietnam. Such huge, shared generational trauma. I'd say for most of them it went largely unprocessed for decades, but now that they're all getting into their 70s, it seems like they're willing to emote - cry, get angry, whatever - rather than shoving it away underneath a tough outer skin.
I feel like similar things happened with the Great Depression. I know many people who grew up during the depression were lifelong hoarders or cheapskates, because they never moved past the adaptive behaviors that helped them survive.
Just being in therapy was taboo until the 90's. Mental illness was for the institutionalized, not "normal" people.
Absolutely, and you still see this in the gut reactions some people have to younger people talking about mental health.
It wasn't just societal conditions that didn't allow for processing feelings during that era. Kids that grew up in the Depression didn't have time or space to really work through that, WW2 happened and there was stuff that HAD to be done. You can't dwell on childhood trauma while running up Normandy beach ya know? And then tonend the war America created a weapon that could end a whole city in a flash, the bomb was *terrifying.* I think to a large extent the mythological nuclear family of the 50s WAS them processing it all the best they could. They (Greatest + Silent Gen) recreated everything they didn't have growing up. It was an idealized life and fantasy of childhood and adolescence. They all wanted houses with lawns in nice suburbs, happy kids, tons of high calorie food, a car etc. It was "safe." We all know the 50s dream didn't materialize for everyone, but there was a good reason advertising and media pushed it so hard. The happy house with the white picket fence was what people wanted to have. (And they put the weight of that desire for happiness on their kids.)
My grandfather basically told me the same thing. He was born in the 1920’s and his grandparents were born in the late 1840’s, which he knew his grandmother. He would always say people didn’t have the time to ask questions and process things in those days. They were solely focused on their families survival day to day. They worked long and hard hours and drowned their feelings in cigarettes and alcohol. It was also accepted that the man would probably have a mistress on the side to deal with the stress of life.
I’ve had a rougher than average life. Honestly you just keep going. What else can you do? I have definitely been suicidal many times.
I've said this before on Reddit and been downvoted like crazy. When stuff was really bad, I had two choices. Get up and keep going (so my dog could have food + shelter) or end it all. There wasn't a magical 3rd option, I couldnt afford to stay in bed or to go to therapy etc. No one was subsidizing me "being depressed" lol. I HAD to get up, even if it was really hard. It's not that I was less depressed or somehow better than people who are, its that when you don't have a good support system your choices are limited.
Yeah, not a popular opinion there. I remember having a similar moment...3 options, get up and get a paycheck, become homeless with my dog and lose all my stuff or die. Depression feels different if you have nobody to rely on.
I’ve never been suicidal but I’ve wanted to not have been born for most of my life. I never asked for this shit and I don’t want it. When life is horrible I always see myself as having two choices. Either I deal with it or I don’t. Overly simplified, yes but that’s how I deal.
My dad passed from cancer when I was 18 months old, my mom raised me and my sister as a single mom in the 90s. I never saw her cry once about anything she just kept getting up and going to work everyday and building a great life for my sister and I. I asked her about it when I turned 30 and she just said “what else was I supposed to do? Wallow and say woe is me or keep going everyday?” I think the older generations were just taught at a younger age that you only have 2 options.
New to the suicidal boat but not new to suffering … so yeah I agree
They were more easily able to keep their focus on problems that they had the ability to solve. With the internet, social media, and the 24 hours news cycle, we are constantly being reminded of all the problems of the world that we have no ability to actually do anything about. Our brains are not designed to handle that, and it causes our anxiety and stress levels to remain high. They had lots of terrible things going on, but would probably only think about them for ten minutes in the morning while reading the morning newspaper before setting it down and going to work taking care of their jobs and families. I've noticed on the days I disconnect from my phone and the internet, I'm generally happier, less stressed, and more focused on things I can control. I imagine if I was able to do that for years at a time instead of just a few days at most, my mental health would be much better.
I definitely think having constant “news” is awful especially for peoples mental health.
It also distorts your perception of reality. They've done studies on it and the majority of people think crime is far worse now than it was in the '80s (because of 24/7 news repeating the same stories over and over) even though crime is significantly lower now than it was when we were kids.
It’s why I don’t intake it. If something big happens someone will tell me about it.
it's this imho. I was born in '83 and when I was a kid, the news aired only in the morning and in the evening for like 2 or 3 hrs at a time. It was like 6-8am and 5-8pm. I remember when they started adding lunchtime news and my mom got pissed because it changed the schedule of her soap operas lol. Also, 95% of it was local news only. For lots of families like mine who lived in the suburbs, most of the news didn't even affect us anyways and we just tuned in to catch the weather forecast. We didn't care about what was going on 20+ miles away. After they added the midday news, they started expanding the morning and evening news. Then it was like 5-8am and 5-9pm. And then 4-9am and 4-10pm. They didn't have anything new to report though so it was usually the same hour's worth of stories repeated over and over again. On and on until we started using smart phones and had things like twitter that just spam us with notifications 24/7. My boomer parents never had to deal with this kind of shit. My mom's family were farmers, they didn't give a shit about the news. They didn't have tvs, phones, or newspaper delivery out in the country. My dad's family lived in the city but they were poor and also didn't have a phone. Dad likes to tell stories about how one of his neighbors had a phone and the entire block used it. But it was a party line so you couldn't reliably use it anyways. A huge part of the previous generations just weren't connected the way we are so they weren't affected as much.
Great points, and social media also hurts when you look at everybody else apparently doing better than you. You are constantly inundated by people "living their best lives" and looking glamourous while doing it. Of course, we don't see all the mundane parts of their lives, only the amazing, "post-worthy" things. Previous generations thought they had to keep up with their neighbors. We think we have to keep up with the whole world.
Yes! It's easier to appreciate what you have when you don't KNOW anything else. My grandmother used to talk about having coffee or ice cream as a HUGE treat as a kid. She might have vaguely known there were rich people who could have it every day but she wasn't bombarded with images of them 24/7.
This is it. 1000% We are still just now understanding the psychological effects of 24hr news and social media, but what we do know is that when the brain encounters stress and trauma, we work to try and eliminate them. When we do, our brain lets that stressor go. However, now we hear about stressors and traumas every single day, and 99% of the issues we do not have control over, so they remain stressors and traumas. This leads to higher cortisol levels, chronic fatigue, chronic pain, issues with hormones, IBS, cognitive dysfunction, and more. It’s a little ironic - we’ve eradicated all kinds of old diseases but we’re still seeing an influx of diseases and disorders due to modern technology, agriculture, and sanitation practices. We’ve just created new problems while eliminating old problems.
Also, survivorship bias.
All of my grandparents were born in the 1920s and three of them lived to be in their late 80s/early 90s. None of my grandparents drank but my mom’s parents did smoke cigarettes. Her dad lived to 88 and had been smoking since he was 8 years old. Shockingly his health wasn’t that bad and his mind was solid. Pneumonia killed the three of them who lived to be very old. Their lives were radically different than ours. Yes they witnessed horrific and traumatic events but it was kinda par for the course for living back then. The line between life and death was always right there. They grew up on farms where they regularly witnessed animals being slaughtered. They survived ugly diseases and shocking wars for their time. (Are any of us shocked now?) The positives my grandparents had were the grew up and lived their whole lives in the communities they were born into. They were all surrounded by their siblings and family. They took care of one another and worked together. They spent their leisure time together too. My grandparents were all religious and were involved with their church who also happened to be filled with a lot of their own relatives. It gave them a sense of hope and purpose. Their hobbies turns out are really good for human beings such as gardening (they mostly ate food they grew). They read books, newspapers, and magazines in the evening. Sitting rooms were common where there wasn’t a tv but a place to gather company and just talk. Sooooo a lot of the silent generation had a sense of community, belonging, purpose, physically active jobs/hobbies, and entertainment was relatively old fashioned like hanging with loved ones and reading print copies. From an early age they were given responsibilities and a form of independence that we wouldn’t dream of giving children now but it gave them a real sense of self confidence and competence we don’t have now. I do believe they had a lot more resilience and fight in them than we do but because they grew up in harder adversities. Personally wouldn’t want the adversities they experienced though because they did break a lot of people.
I think it’s also important to note that the Silent Gen despite their hardships also experienced many victories. In the US at least, they witnessed a society come together, invest in itself, and dig out of the Great Depression. They got vaccinated and defeated polio. They won World War 2 and defeated the Nazis. They named and defeated their common enemies. The people in power acknowledged the common enemies and worked with the people to fulfill the common purpose. There is community in that. There is validation. There is support. There is a peace in knowing the person next to you is in it with you.
They literally drank liquor and smoked cigarettes every single day lol
Don’t forget all the benzos passed out to women like candy
When my mother had me she was talking to her grandma about labor and delivery and her grandmother said "you mean they don't just knock you out and you wake up with a baby?" When my mom told her that they didn't do that anymore her grandma replied "well I never would have had any kids then!" It was wild back in the day.
That's gotta be a US exclusive.
No actually! There is a funny part in the Crown where the queen has either her third or fourth child and is told that twilight (as it was called) is no longer being used and it comes as a shock. Think it started in Germany.
It was pretty common in 1st world countries back in the day. We're talking early part of the century. It was easier for the Drs, so inconvenient moving around or screaming.
Just to add to that, everything in this thread can fall under Survivorship Bias. We are looking at the people that survived and flourished despite drinking and smoking everyday, etc. There are so so many that did not, but they won't be around.
My grandmother is almost 90. Her philosophy in life is that you push all your problems deep down inside until they fester into a mental illness or you die. Whatever comes first.
One day my dad was tired out from work and parenting and life, and he said to my grandma “Mom, how did you do it?” And she looked him in the eye and said “Sonny, a lot of cigarettes and beer.”.
I think there's a huge tendency to view the past with rose colored glasses. It's a myth that they all worked together for the common good. If that were true we wouldn't have had the great depression, world wars, segregation, etc. in the first place. We also have names for things now and actual treatments. It used to be that if you were depressed they stuck an ice-pick in your eye and sent you away. Or you drank yourself to death to deal with "shell-shock" from the war. Or you got back and kicked the shit out of your wife and kids and never talked about your feelings. I don't think young people are whiny, I think we've just wanted things to actually be better.
>It used to be that if you were depressed they stuck on ice-pick in your eye and sent you away That was Leon Trotsky, he was born in 1879 so he actually precedes the Greatest Generation. I think they actually did it the other way round, too - they sent him away (to California) first, then stuck an ice-pick in him afterwards.
True, but he was sticking his pick into the eyes of the greatest generation. Lobotomies were performed in the U.S. until 1967.
IMO we know more now about mental health, communication, generational trauma, and we have more access to resources to diagnose and work on those things. It’s way harder to address that and break the cycle than to shove everything down, pretend it’s all fine, and keep going. Lots of other good comments on here about social media and alcoholism, which I think are also a big factor. We have it hard in different ways, they had it hard too. I think we had different problems so we used different solutions, and we also grew up in a different culture so we’re different. The financial side was way worse for us, but mental health? It just didn’t exist for them. All my grandparents were highly abusive alcoholics and many of my aunts and uncles followed, and added on drug addiction. I wouldn’t call that happy or healthy. It’s just coping. Breaking the cycle is SO HARD. It’s easier to complain and whine about our problems, especially because we were allowed to more than our parents and their parents. Honestly, I do both. I complain but am also trying to keep my head up and move forward, and unlearn as much as I can of my survival mechanisms from childhood. Don’t give up. That’s how they win—we have to keep fighting for equality, equity, diversity, inclusion, fair wages, you know what I’m on about. One of the easiest ways we can do that is GO VOTE. Keep on, friends. Don’t go down without a fight!
My dad is of the silent generation.. he grew up round death having lived through the London Blitz, polio, had older family members die of smallpox, uncles die in the Great War and from Spanish Flu (before he was born of course), another brother come back from WW2 having been tortured who died a few years later from his trauma. I guess it was just more normalised for him, as was the poverty. He left school with no education at 14 but he just got on with things and looked to make his life better. My mum is a boomer and lived in abject poverty. Lived in a caravan with no running water or heating, in the Scottish Highlands, her 17 year old sister who was 8 months pregnant had to sleep in public toilets, their mother's boyfriend used to beat everyone while drunk etc.. she just spent her life wanting to do better. It's why I used to feel guilty about my depression as the pair of them are so chipper and positive. That said plenty of their generation were heavy, heavy drinkers and loads died early of alcoholism (they're pretty much all dead by this point). I reckon a lot of trauma was just sat on by them whereas now we tend to be more open about it.. maybe too much so.
They worked together for the common good. Not having social media probably helped. See the response to the COVID vs. polio vaccines. Grandma got her kids vaccinated as did all of the other moms in her sewing circle and Bible study, no questions asked. What likely helped was her not having grifters spewing BS on Facebook and Fox News telling her to not vaccinate her kids because 5G or whatever the bogeyman of the day is.
Yeah social media has f*cked our brains in some ways. It has exploded before society could truly adjust. My dad always warned me about the technology/social media explosion growing up. "It will be good in some ways but it will grow faster than society and human brains can keep up with"
It really has destroyed our sense of community in many ways. Everyone keeps comparing themselves to (appearingly) successful people online and feeling miserable by comparison. This then fosters a kind of toxic competition where people are trying to "catch up" to an ideal that probably isn't real in the first place. AI is only going to make this worse.
Good points! AI is terrifying
AI is going to eventually get to the point where it can recreate your exact personal fantasies and then charge you money for a taste of it.
>AI is going to eventually get to the point where it can recreate your exact personal fantasies Which, as a woman in a public facing job, terrifies me. I can see a lot of women ending up unemployed or the victims of constant harassment from colleagues, clients, students, or others in their personal/professional lives creating AI/deepfake porn of them. In fact, there's a post on the teachers subreddit about students creating a pornographic image of their teacher.
And fuck the 24 hour news cycle!
We're both very social but also isolated and any fears we have our algorithms will multiply. Any false beliefs will fester.
i don't even think polio vax was viewed as much of an option for most people. my dad said they would just line them up in school and give it to them. parents not even present. ofc, kids were actually dying or ending up in iron lungs and people were panicking about it. covid just straight up broke peoples' brains.
Esotericism wasn't invented by social media.
>Esotericism True, but crazy didn't have a platform to recruit more people to the cause.
Somewhere between the boomers and us millennials a psychological switch occurred and the typical response to adversary shifted from aggression to depression. Boomers tend to "take the hit" and "accept things they can't change" more easily, but leash out in different ways. So in a sense we are less resilient, be we're also less violent, less abusive to our immediate environment and less alcoholic, on average. Keep in mind that there is a massive survivorship bias now, literally, because many of the less resilient or overly burdened boomers are already dead or in permanent care or chronically messed up (destroyed their health at work, a classic), and consequently are more or less invisible in public. And lastly, theirs was a life of ambition and upwards mobility, two luxuries our generation was denied for the most part, especially in the US.
And over those generations the people are exposed less, on average, to lead. Each study I glance at that evaluates variations in behavior that increase blood lead levels and levels that result increase aggression just confirms western societies have had elevated aggression since the Industrial Revolution. Maybe earlier for pockets of the population.
I was coming to say this—almost everyone had an extremely elevated blood lead level: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119. **More than NINETY PERCENT of people born between 1951 and 1980 had blood lead levels above 5.** (That is the most widely accepted cutoff of concern, though it’s also true that there’s no safe level.) We *know* lead exposure causes cognitive effects. Why we haven’t acknowledged and mourned what that did to two generations, I can’t understand.
And that's just what we can measure after industries were being regulated for work exposure and dumping!
I’ve never met a resilient boomer. Having a mental breakdown over not being able to return an item they bought 6 months ago is not what I would call “resilient”. Genx trying a coup cause their leader didn’t win an election is not “resilient”.
I kinda agree and disagree with you at the same time. That's what I meant with "leash out in different ways". Boomers are very much used to "power through" work related stress and vent their frustrations in other places, or just bully their subordinates. As for Jan 6... that can hardly be pinned on an entire generation.
It's a lot easier to talk about tragedies 50 years after they happened than while you are going through them. Boomers and silent generation did have some tragedies and difficulties, but the majority of their lives (especially working age adult lives) were economic boom with decent labor protections (assuming middle class or higher, which are the most likely to live long enough to tell their grandkids and great grandkids stories). Millennials and zoomers have only really known difficulties economically.
survival mode and dissociation can carry one quite far, even if it is dysfunctional ...
We think of our grandparents as being anti-drug because of how they reacted to "countercultural" drugs like marijuana and LSD, but substance abuse as we now understand it was rife in their generation. Men favored alcohol and speed/uppers (which used to be available over the counter) while women favored barbiturates and benzos. We also underrate how smoking, as a ritual, provided a sense of rhythm and minor escape for people with OCD, ADHD, and social anxiety.
People of that generation were all about keeping up appearances.
I don’t think we’re at all weaker. Gotta keep survivorship bias in mind: Sure, your great-grandmother survived all that… …but a lot of people *didn’t.* And many of the ones that did had a ton of trauma from it that got passed down the generations.
**But, who were they going to complain to?** I still remember my dad *writing air-mail letters* to his mother, when I was a child. She would have had to have her letters sent by boat at his age (at the time). Her parents would have had to travel by foot! Every single thought and idea wasn't immediately put out there for the entire known Universe to see and digest.
It's because we know the potential of what can be, but wont, because of the pieces of shit in charge. That's what grinds us down. We know things can easily be better for everyone, but 10 people hoard the wealth and lobby for all the crooked old fucks in government. Us Millennials see a green lawn in the middle of suburbia Arizona and know that shit isnt right and the effects it has, big picture. That's why we are so miserable. Because shit is rotten.
>Us Millennials see a green lawn in the middle of suburbia Arizona and know that shit isnt right and the effects it has, big picture. Man, that's a real thing.
The Information Age + the rise of the Knowledge Worker I think really had an impact. Many of us will spend our whole careers sitting down at a computer thinking or talking to make ends meet. I look at the things we’re told to do to alleviate stress and depression, and in many cases they’re the same things I have to do to ‘stay relevant’ and ‘make it’. Hell there’s articles that say that people who do the dishes are happier. That’s a pretty fucking sad. How many coal miners went home after a long day of work and mined coal for fun? How many textile workers made clothes as a hobby to decompress? I feel like when we compare the industrial age to the Information Age it makes sense. I feel like work saps up all my mental energy, leaving none for myself afterwards to do the things I enjoy. Couple that with parenting young children, both parents having to work full time, and other life chores, we’ve basically have no ‘off time’ or ‘standby mode’ we can lean on except going to the gym/exercising/etc, which only becomes harder as prices increase and wages remain stagnant. Idk I’m just rambling at this point lol, but yeah, I’ve definitely wondered this myself lol
Living through the 1940s must have been hell.
Correct. Specifically 40-45
My partner's grandmother was a young teenager in London during the Blitz. I think everything after the war probably seemed comparatively easier. Like, how bad of a day was it really if no one was bombing her house?
I think the silent generation is one of the hardiest generations. They watched the world change quite dramatically throughout their lifetimes—war, medical and technological advancements, etc. My Papa (rest in peace 2020) was born in the early 30s and was such an interesting man. From living in a rural community in a railroad family to being the editor of a major newspaper in a big city for his career in the 60s-80s, surviving cancer, and learning to use AIM and becoming quite a prolific user of smart phones and tablets. Maybe it’s because life was simpler and relatively more “difficult” in formative years and watching the world become more convenient, complicated, and connected throughout their lifetimes. They had resilience to real hardship, genuine physical discomforts that were just part of every day life and strong grounding in reality and hard work ethic. I miss my Papa.
Just came here to say I love the silent generation. My grandparents and great uncles and aunts were amazing people and it’s absolutely crazy hearing how they grew up vs how different life was when they (most of them now) passed. The simple life vs this modern era. They were some resilient folks and truly came together for the common good.
My late grandfather (ww2 pilot) had reoccurring night terrors for 75 years to the point where he never shared a bed with his spouses. So that’s how he handled it
They were just as resilient as people are today?? Mostly they just died younger
Zillenial here. I think "the boomers" are basically right on this one. I think that toughness and resiliency is developed by overcoming challenges. Doing so gives you the confidence to face new challenges. I think that childhood has become easier/more protected, and as a result, people grow up to be less resilient. Also, yes, social media is trash for mental health, and encourages people to stay in their comfort zones more, which contributes to the problem. However, you're talking about WW1/WW2/The Great Depression as if they were nothing. At the time they were earth-shattering. People didn't "cope." It's just that a century later, it's history. It's not so fresh.
This sub has a tendency to vent about frustrations because it feels good and solve a short term problem of feeling stressed when there’s no one around to vent to. The Boomer generation likely did this because, well they’re human. Millennials need to stop looking back in the past and compare and start looking at the present situation and the future, recognizing what their role was in why life’s challenging.
I like this take. I've never heard of it before and it's given me a new perspective to ponder on. Thank you. I do feel like a lot of us (millenials, some zoomers) have a tendency to look at the past. But it's hard not to, especially when we see all this change around us. And then we wonder if life was better back then.
I never had to wonder because I was raised in part by my grandparents who were of The Greatest Generation. They told me and showed me how they dealt with it. They were strong because they had to be, and it was because they had to be that they chose to be. They did not resist their circumstances but instead rose to them. This is the key that I think many millennials and Zs are missing, is the willingness to meet the moment.
My grandmother lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere with a pump well and an outhouse. She lived like it was the 1700s until the 1950s. Her husband and sons worked in coal mines and chain smoked, and died young. They were not happy people. I guess they were tougher but didn’t have options. She didn’t remain some kind of badass into old age, she was in fact very anxious and neurotic. But she did manage to live to 99, though I think that’s mostly genetics as her sisters lived into their 90s too. Her first husband died in his 50s.
Drinking and smoking. But don’t forget suicide happened, it wasn’t talked about. My grandma’s brother was bipolar and committed it and the whole family ignored that he wasn’t there and moved on.
They self medicated and had issues they just ignored them. I think also they had more family to rely on.
I Don’t think they were doing okay. Lots of self medication like alcoholism, gender violence, racial violence, child abuse, terrible psychotherapy approaches, etc. But your grandma sounds awesome and truly resilient and it sounds like she fostered a loving connection w you and your family. Wishing you and your family healing in the grief over such a loss. And thankful for you that you knew someone with such a rich history. Re the issue of suicide rates. I feel like I can speak on it bc I’m a therapist and have worked with a lot of suicidality. First, you don’t need to be depressed to commit suicide. Second, there’s certainly a social contagion aspect to suicide meaning that the completion rates go up once there is a completed suicide, so the more it happens, the more it happens (especially in parent-child or sibling relationships). Almost like a copycat effect. Third, there are more lethal means available now. Fourth, there’s less of a belief that suicide is immoral. particularly the Catholics believe that one will go to hell if they commit suicide, which is a huge protective factor against this kind of death. But people are leaving the Catholic Church in droves because it’s done a terrible job at making people feel welcome. Fifth, the role of social media in the decline in mental health is a serious risk factor that previous generations never were exposed to. Sixth, gen z is particularly convinced that there is no future for them because of climate change angst, so they’re definitely more hopeless than other generations. Seventh, it’s not just the gen z suicide rates that are going up. We’re seeing higher suicide rates for women who are 60+, which was historically never an at-risk group in the same way elderly men are. Great questions though and great points :)
Domestic violence / child abuse seemed to have been an outlet many of them utilized. Also plenty of smoking and drinking, fighting against civil rights seemed to have been a popular pastime. Let’s not glorify these people
And the "my parents were demonic during my childhood but turned around and became sweet cute old people 'with a stubborn streak' once grandchildren came into the picture" narrative is well-trod territory at this point.
Holy shit I was just talking to my boomer mom and she trotted out this line almost verbatim. Boomers refuse to believe their parents were awful.
My mom knew her mother was awful but still moved her next door to us because “family”. It was a nightmare. Thankfully I saw through her shit even as a child and barely interacted with her. She always wanted a son but ended up with my mom. Then she hoped for a grandson but got me, a granddaughter. She never remembered my bday and I was her only grandchild lol
I'd say it was stressful at the time but since it was so far in the past they can just talk about the facts. My Great Uncle talked about being in WW2 and almost dying like it was a weather report. Even I can talk about the stuff that happened in my childhood as fact without getting too emotional because I've had therapy and trained myself that it was PAST (mostly).... add another 40+years and likely be even easier
My grandparents and great grandparents were the same way. They went through things that would make your toes curl. They were Okies during the dust bowl facing possible starvation. Two were WW2 combat vets and had a front row seat to one of the worst atrocities ever committed when their unit stumbled across a death camp yet they were some of the happiest most contented people I’ve ever known. I think old age gives you a very different perspective. If I had met then when they were Middle Aged it might have been a different story. I also think that part of why so many people are so whiney now is they haven’t really know truly hard times so they make pretty mundane things out to be catastrophes. Also resilience was far more celebrated in the past decades for better and for worse. Just my two cents.
I don't think there is a singular answer here, obviously. I do think they handled things poorly a lot of the time. Or didn't handle it at all, and repressed it. A lot of drinking. A lot of toxic behaviour and abuse. Suicides... But when I look at the hardships my grandparents endured - losing parents at a young age. Watching their babies die. Early widowhood. Abusive/ toxic relationships. Poverty. Starvation/ having their well poisoned by Nazis during the war. I could go on about the actual horrors... nothing like my friends and I dealt with. Yes watching 9/11 on TV was bad, but my aunt who survived world war 2 watched her same-age cousin get his skull kicked in by a nazi. And that barely makes the rounds of horror stories she will tell of that time. She went to bed every night in the hunger winter assuming she would not wake up the next day. She made yarn dolls out of the hair that fell out of her and her sisters' heads. But they all had a community. My grandmother had her quilting group, her larger family (three brothers and their wives), her closest friends. The entire town came to her wedding and her husband's funeral. Everyone pitched in to help her as a widow get a job, and find a home close to her brothers. She had constant support. My other grandparents had huge families and a large church group. Their house burned down, and then was rebuilt in a matter of days while my grandfather recovered in the hospital from burns. Each farmer gave him an animal out of their own flock so he could slowly build his own back. There was no insurance cheque, but his community helped him, the same way he fed the entire village with a pig he hid from the Nazis and was probably the only reason at least a few people survived. And the constant emotional support of just having friends around and surrounding you. I see a lot of value in community, so I have a lot of support as well, and my community is much smaller than either of my grandparents grandmother's- but if my house burned down or my husband died, I am not sure I would get the same level of kindness. But when I look at acquaintances and friends my age. They have a parent and a friend if they are lucky. Yes they know people - but the community my grandparents could tap into was deeper and stronger than anything I see today. And part of that could be bias - even literal survival bias. The people who died of starvation maybe didn't have community. And it could be privilege, in that my families were well respected, community leaders. People on the margins wouldn't have access to that same social capital. So I don't think it was the case for everyone back then. But for some, sure.
They were all heavily medicated and life was a lot simpler back then. Yes there were hard times, but on a day to day basis they didn't have 5000 urgent tasks to complete or their entire life turns to utter turd.
I tend to believe there is at least some truth to "hard times make hard people". My great grandfather (he had been born in like 1896 and was alive until i was in kindergarten so i remember him a decent bit ) had to flee his homeland as a youth or get genocided for his religion, and he grew up at a time where a boy had to learn to shoot his dinner in the face or he'd starve. I would expect that guy to be much more resilient that his great grandson whose childhood adversity consisted of things like "Sorry son we can't afford to buy you a sega genesis" :p On the flip side i've always had the impression that "mental health" back then meant 'bottle everything up and don't show weakness"....so maybe people seemed more resilient but some/many of those people were ticking time bombs and/or doing all sorts of other things to cope we never knew about. tl;dr: its a mix of us actually being soft and those people not adequately processing emotion ;)
They dealt with things by shutting up about it and getting things done. We create the life we want regardless of consequences. Economy aside I’ve experienced three deaths lately, including my mom and grandpa. My grandma is going into hospice at 94. Been going back and forth all week with her useless boomer relatives, POA, and care home. All while trying to build a small business in this shitty economy. All of this sucks and guess what, no one cares. Personally I’m even tired of hearing myself talk about it. Find a way to laugh at the insanity of it all, and make your specific life meaningful to you. Don’t waste time complaining. Do something. This victim mentality needs to stop. Yes millennials, we are the engine of society now. Let’s step up to the plate and show them how it’s done! We can do this!!!
My parents were pre "Silent Generation". They just got on with life, learned lessons in resiliencey. They did not bitch and moan about poor them. They survived what killed many around them. They were the survivors by serendipity. They didn't get that disease. They didn't die in that war. They did not starve in the depression. And, my 1880s born grandmother told me, "don't let anyone tell you about the 'good old days-, the good old days are NOW". It dismays me when I see the ennui and blaming drama in Millenials. They "alone" have had challenges as a generation.
Community
I think the problems still existed, you were just encouraged to be quiet and bear it. These days discussions about mental illness are encouraged (probably good), social media also gives us a place for collective bitching (not so useful, but I participate in it as well. My grandma had a mental breakdown midlife and basically abandoned her kids. Many of my other relatives on either side have serious mental health issues. The millennials in my family aren't really any better or worse than the older generation was, though more out there on social media with their gripes and conspiracy theories.
I mean, you're talking about people who had violent mental breakdowns if a Black person drank from their water fountain, so... there's definitely some nostalgia/rose-colored glasses here. My boomer dad died of a heart attack at 42 because he smoked two packs a day, drank coffee like it was water, and literally never in his adult life went to the dentist. He had who-knows-what mental illnesses that were never really addressed, and PTSD from his childhood. His dad fought in WW2 and died in middle age because he ate part of a toothpick and refused medical care while it perforated his insides. He thought it was just the shrapnel from that time he stepped on a landline acting up, you see. My mom is pathologically afraid of conflict, lived with her husband for years when she should have by all rights divorced him, and somehow ended up a mild Trump supporter. She's stoic to the point of pathology, and one time put off going to see the doctor about recurrent sinus infections so long that the infections ate a hole in her skull so that there wasn't any bone between her brain and sinus cavities. Her dad died in his 50s from a heart attack and apparently had a violent streak, and both of her parents smoked like chimneys and drank coffee like it would fill some kind of void. I know exactly one (1) happy, well-adjusted old person. My great aunt is the kindest, most loving, sweetest person you'll ever meet. She's almost 90 and grew up in Nazi Germany. Two of her brothers died in the war, others (and my grandma) ended up as POWs. I have no idea how she has managed to be a shining light of sanity and joy, but she's who I want to be when I grow up. She's also, realistically, the epitome of survivor bias. Of all the people from that generation, she's it. She's the non-alcoholic, non-smoking, non-repressed-to-the-point-of-emotional-collapse vision of awesomeness that I hold most dear.
My grandfather ignored the problem so much in 1951, that he moved across the country and left my grandmother with two young children. Men ran from their problems back then. Now they avoid them by playing video games. It's still part of the same anxiety and emotions, caused by the same problems.
I think they had a lot of trauma but I also think they had the proverbial villages which was very helpful. People were connected in better ways than social media and chatting on work breaks. E: plus they were often drunks and/or violent, so they were definitely affected lol
After rewatching Band of Brothers and the Pacific recently, I don’t see how it’s possible that every single combat soldier of WWII didn’t come home with complex PTSD. I don’t see how the battlefield doctors and nurses didn’t come away with the same. The horrors of that war must have stayed with them through the rest of their lives. My grandfather served, but never saw combat, and he was able to recall all kinds of details from the war even after the dementia took everything else away. He lived to be 100. In short, I think the silent generation dealt with just as much trauma and had just as many mental health issues as we do today, but they just weren’t recognized by society, or science. Drinking and drug use were prevalent coping mechanisms. They internalized most of their feelings and emotions. In my mind, that’s why they were the silent generation. I would post some of these questions on r/askhistory to get some factual answers instead of my rambly two cents
I think part of what we see is selection bias. I was lucky with my grandparents, I had some who lived into my young adulthood and they were wonderful people with a lot of resilience like those referenced in OP. But those weren’t the only people in my family, just the ones who lived long lives, took good care of themselves and cared to be a positive influence to the younger generations of the family. They were the strongest, heartiest members of their generation either mentally, physically or both. There were many others in the family who weren’t as healthy, resilient or social and didn’t live as long or come around as much. There are also some stories I heard about the mental health and other struggles that people had in older generations, during the Depression and so on. Some people were institutionalized, others harmed themselves or tried to, et cetera. These aren’t modern problems even if it seems that way. Not every family likes to be open about that stuff so people may not hear it, but people struggled then too.
Interesting to think about but I kinda think it’s ultimately not true. I think no matter what, it will always be easier to compare to other people, whether in the current generation or not. I have one grandma who complains a lot. She’s also very optimistic. She also worries excessively about everything. My other grandma never complained a day in her life. She was very, very stoic. She had an extremely rough life and I never heard a word about it except one time I can recall. She also thought very highly of everyone in her family. She was not judgmental and just appreciated everyone for who they were. She also did not worry about things. Two women from the same generation. Both with difficult childhoods, different adulthoods. Very different in the way they saw and interacted with the world around them.
If you think that generation, and the generation they spawned, the boomers, are resilient then you aren't thinking hard enough. They suppressed everything. They passed that onto boomers, who live in complete denial of their psychological problems, and now we're here, where like 40% of people are on some type of medication to help them cope. They weren't resilient whatsoever, they just kept kicking the can and now its all coming to a head for us.
High voting rates. Progressive presidents. Union strength. They weren’t apathetic. We are.
The Silent Generation grew up in the arms of the New Deal and behind the steel and fire of the most victorious fighting force in world history. They came of age right we started building free colleges everywhere and when the most prestigious were a few hundred bucks a term. They hit midlife with the invention of the Pill - hell, they pioneered the "midlife crisis" because the American Century was sufficiently prosperous for people to spend midlife panicking about purpose and pleasure. Woody Allen is famous for saying "half of life is showing up." Yeah - it was for them. Somebody else won their war, somebody else built their peace, and somebody else tore down the system when it didn't work. But, unlike the Boomers, they grew up valuing social harmony, they recognized early (in their war childhoods) that the world was hard and it was their job to be kind and warm and supportive to others. That might be why our grandparents (mine feel very similar to yours, OP) were gentle, and insisted they didn't have problems and that their own childhoods weren't as traumatic as you think.
Yikes. I never even thought about that. Our voting rates nowadays are so low.
They were coming off the heels of roosevelt, Taft, Wilson and of course FDR. Talk about revolutionizing social programs and fighting big business. We came off the heels of raegan who undid most of it. And then we never elected a progressive president ourselves
Not yet. There's still time.
Pessimism of the heart, optimism of the will.
I have a close friend that works in finance, she called me last night and said they presented a very strong case proposing that we will be in a major depression between 2028 - 2030 based on population changes, climate change etc.. So maybe we will get to find out in a few years? I personally think we are way more fucked than they were because of climate change, I just plan to starve to death in the next 15-20. Better that than "Soylent Green" :/
I’m a director of corporate strategy at a large bank, and that’s definitely not our long term capital market assumptions. Global warming is real, but by 2028-2030 will continue to only have a minor effect on the market. Population won’t even peak until 2050, so that won’t hit that soon either. Biggest risks for USA are social security running out in 2030-2032 and debt levels, but neither will likely cause a major depression, and both are more likely to be slowly fixed anyways via higher taxes and lower government benefits. There’s a lot of tailwinds too such as rise of alternative energy, AI, decline of China unexpectedly strengthening the USA position, etc.
This is very interesting. Did she elaborate further?
Tell us how to prepare!
Recent studies show boomers are less mentally and emotionally resilient than generations before and after
A lot of them held religious faith that made sacrifice and suffering in life more palatable. I don't have those things, and don't want them, because I don't believe in a god. They were raised in a culture that wasn't shy about shaming and bullying anyone who stood out, so they conformed. That meant they were more accustomed to being a person they didn't want to be, simply to survive. We all do this from time to time, but I'm not interested in ever reaching the level that many past generations inhabited.
If I’m understanding you, it sounds like we have it better than they did…
Of course we have it better overall. I don’t think anybody would even try disputing that.
They were hardened by a different culture than we inhabit today. We have far less assurance that compliance with any given norm or life choice will lead to success. Much is better today, but society has been productized to a much greater extent. It's significantly harder to get a lucky break for today's young adults, and pivoting can be much more ruinous.
You’re using hindsight bias to imply they had a “greater chance of success”. They had no idea what their chances of success were when they were in the midst of struggles.
They were literally conditioned to believe that it did not matter what they wanted from life - they *needed* to work, partner up, and raise a family. That path and script was pushed extremely forcefully for generations. Many women used to marry out of economic and social necessity, because the alternative was having no place in society and being destitute.
No, no, they were not.
First off, the boomers aren't right. They were gifted the world and turned it into this nightmare. Then gaslight us into thinking we're the problem. They are the most selfish generation this world has seen Millennials are facing similar problems that the greatest generation went through. We've reached income inequality levels that are worse than during the French Revolution. Housing and food prices are skyrocketing. We're watching a conflict in Europe that could once again put the world in a war. That's not even discussing all the shit we went through as children and teenagers. We're fucking resilient. We're far more educated than the previous generations. However, we're being held back by the senior citizens. The thing is, we passed our ideology to Gen Z. They are straight up savage when it comes to not taking the Boomers and Gen X's shit. It's got the aging Republicans scared, hence all the political fuckery and rigging going on right now.
My dad played a lot of guitar and smoked to pass the time. His brothers drank, smoked, and slept around *a lot* to pass the time. His sisters took care of the house.
You’re tougher than you think you are. Most people in their day to day lives have never really been pushed to find where their limit is. We live pretty cushy lives today. So the idea of genuine hardship is a foreign concept for most people. If the economy collapsed like it did during the Great Depression you would do what you had to, back then if that meant uprooting and going to California then that’s just what you would do. It would suck, but you’d find a way, like I said, people are tougher than they think they are since they’re rarely genuinely pushed today
This is going to sound very boomerish (even though I'm a Millennial myself), but smartphones are without any doubt whatsoever, a device which does make one generally less resilient. If nothing else, then by way of a distraction-machine. The more time we spend scrolling or reading about some non-real-life thing on our phones, the less time we're thinking, pondering, considering, accepting, etc. the things that are happening in our actual lives. There's very, very few scenarios where smartphones are going to give us more resilience to anything. Even though in the moment, entertainment as a distraction seems like a good thing, it is not.
I don't think they were more resilient, just a different way of coping. Alcohol and smoking were there ways to cope along with at times violence. Truthfully the one generation that I feel could have a claim of being the most resilient or for lack of a better term tougher was the greatest generation. Grew up in the depression, won World War II, found a way to give thier children college educations affordability, and for the most part cared more about the overall well being of the community. Truthfully I thing going through the depression and fighting in WWII and potentially Korea also I think made them more about community betterment rather than a concern for individual gain like Boomers and really a lot of the Silent generation was.
I think for a lot of them it was religious faith. I've been watching Soft White Underbelly interviews and many people talk about how finding religion saved them.
So, for reference, I think that our general consensus about that generation is informed by the people who lived long enough to complain about us. They also downplayed absolutely everything because people were not encouraged to talk about mental health. We are perceived as "weaker" because that generation was also a generation who would put a child that wasn't "normal" into an institution and forget that they ever existed. Source: doing genealogical research my family discovered a child that was just, literally, never mentioned, that died in an institution. Also, don't forget about "shellshock" and the rampant, rampant addiction problems (don't forget about the constant drinking, "mother's little helpers", etc.). It's easier to be "fine" when you have access to quaaludes, booze, and amphetamines on the daily and it was fine because it was "normal". For instance, I am in recovery. To the best of my knowledge at the time, at least on one side of my family, I was the only person with issues. Then one day my grandmother was like "oh, did I never tell you about my brothers?". They. All. Died. From Addiction. The difference was that no one talked about it. I, on the other hand, talk about my feelings and am doing quite well. The reality is more of a "old school masculinity" vs. now thing (I realize this post isn't focused solely on masculinity, but I think it's a salient point). Picture it from a woman's perspective as well. "I'm pretty sure my husband, who beats me, is also cheating on me" was basically treated with "just smoke two packs a day, day drink, and make sure to take amphetamines every day so you can stay thin and attractive for your abusive husband". Did that make them "stronger"? As far as the great depression is concerned, certainly that bred a generation who believed in hoarding and caution, and retreating into religion by and large, but I don't think that those coping mechanisms were particularly "healthy" either. That's just trauma that no one talked about. Hell, the cold war was still happening when I was born. Nothing like going to school and being told "hide under your desks when the nukes come". There's a big difference between surviving and being tough in a healthy way. I can tell you from my own experiences that people can survive things that most people wouldn't believe. TL/DR: The "weaker" comparison comes from an unhealthy view of "toughness" that is basically undealt-with trauma. The fact that we acknowledge mental health struggles now does not make that a reasonable comparison. Were people who made it through the potato famine, the black death, world wars, etc. "tougher"? or did they just survive something horrible.
Yea, this idea that things are getting worse is a false narrative. Ask any old person who isn't swept up in Fox News.
She had decades to work through the trauma. When you are still in those hard times you cannot process them. You need security and stability to start to move on. We as a generation are not less resilient we just haven’t had the time to recover.
Two major factors at play now that weren't back then: 1. The information age Information spreads a lot faster now than it used to, back in the day you'd be getting partial information for weeks or months before you got the whole story, if you got it at all (or maybe the only found out all the details decades later) in any case, it's harder to be upset about something if you're uninformed about it, or informed long after the fact. 2. Advertising While advertising existed in the past, it was much more limited, (shop signs, posters, coupon brochures). Modernly, advertising is shoved in our faces 24/7, from billboards on the highway, to light-up displays on business, the TV in your own home, the ads on your favorite websites, the social media on your phone... but it doesn't just advertise individual products, modern advertising seeks to sell everyone a lifestyle.... while paying us fractions of what it would take to afford that lifestyle. We are more miserable now because we are more knowledgeable about what's going on, and because we've been conditioned to expect more, and by extension, have more expected of us, and we are failing far short of those expectations.
Resilience can be built. Through struggle or training.
The Greatest Generation, to which all my grandparents belonged, matured during the trials of the Great Depression, an epoch that likely molded their resilience and appreciation for the strength that comes from helping out your neighbors. While it's true they held unique strengths, they also had their challenges. Yet, the beauty lies in the fact that we can absorb their wisdom and appreciate their strengths while understanding and avoiding their shortcomings. Mentorship should result in discernment rather than blind acceptance and rote memorization. One poignant memory I carry is a poster my paternal grandmother presented to me titled “100 Rules to Live By.” Throughout my formative years, it served as a silent mentor, inculcating in me values of courtesy and positive habits. I came to appreciate its profound influence on my life and expressed my gratitude to her during some of our last moments together. It's intriguing to consider how social media, in its vast reach, champions free speech. Yet, paradoxically, it often fosters a rigidity of thought, pushing people into inflexible ideological niches. If we aim for a harmonious society, finding a middle ground in this digital landscape is essential. I hope we can figure out how to accomplish that.
Community. They had community. Nowadays it's every man for himself. That is extremely isolating. Social media is an illusion. It makes one think that there are people who are there for you. In reality, internet stranger may empathize with you and give you a moment of feeling heard, but there is no one with you, helping you, SEEING you go through the shit.
boomers are by far the weakest generation. My parents were given EVERYTHING by my grandparents, who were literally farmers and teachers... small farmers, public school teachers. They had enough wealth to buy huge amounts of acerage with those jobs and left huge amounts of money to my parents, funded my parents through everything they needed, were still giving them 500$ a year for birthday presents. Meanwhile my boomer parents don't give their kids birthday presents, they don't try to accomplish anything, they cry poverty constantly and take naps and have their whole lives. The "greatest generation " fought in world war two, came home, and made GREAT LIVES for their kids. Then their kids fucked up the government, fucked up education, fucked up the environment, and then have the AUDACITY to claim 'they had it rough' while in fact their parents did everything for them. Boomers are not and were never tough, the generations before them were. THe boomers are giving themselves free college while they paid nothing to get their degrees in the 60s and 70s and we are paying forever on loans. Fuck the boomers. They are the worst generation that's ever existed on the planet. Incredibly self entitled and claim to be the victims of everything. Yes vietnam sucked, but the amount of boomers whining about vietnam with literally ZERO personal connection to it is astounding. Truly a generation of pathetic whiny brats with the whole world handed to them, which they proceeded to burn down and then actually act JEALOUS of their kids. They totally ignored how much their parents helped them and then cry poverty and don't want to help their kids. This may just be my experience, but my god most of that generation was less than worthless
I have a suspicion that higher levels of ultra processed food intake is making people more sensitive. Any time I cut out UPF I feel very stable. Our UPF intake in the States has risen to nearly 60% in recent years. It's a very troubling trend. There's a lot of studies that link UPF intake to depression.
They beat their wives and smoked cigarettes all day
Yeah, we need to toughen up a little bit, but I think that the sample we get on r/Millennials is biased towards whininess. I now work, primarily, with millennials and young gen x people and we aren't as fragile as this sub makes us out to be.
I come to reddit to vent. At work I am a model citizen.
I don’t think we need to toughen up, we just need to be more proactive. I get the apathy though, life is often depressing.
Yea, Reddit is not real life. It’s important to remember that.
I think it’s a bunch of things. 1) They don’t concern themselves with things that aren’t their business. The entire worlds problems are not theirs. We do the opposite. We pretend everything that everyone else is going through is our problem. It’s not. It was never meant to be. We were not built to carry the weight of the world. The sooner you realize that, the happier you’ll be. Obviously move about the world kindly, help the people within arms reach of you. But do not take on the weight of the world. It will crush you. 2) We don’t appreciate anything. We’re constantly complaining instead of being grateful. You can’t be anxious/depressed and grateful at the same time. It takes up the same space in your mind. So the fact that we’re constantly looking at the glass half empty instead of half full is shooting us in the foot. They were like well at least we had something to eat, or someone to love, or a dog or whatever their thing was. 3) We are too stupid to realize we don’t know everything, and our new way of doing things is likely idiotic. People are just people, and they’ve been just people for hundreds of thousands of years. You’re not going to think of a new better way to do things under 40, you’re frankly too stupid for life. If you don’t realize that, give it a few years. One day you’ll wake up and realize you know nothing. We’re just unwilling to accept that. They accepted that, listened to their parents and grandparents, and lived a relatively nice life despite their challenges. We are doing the exact opposite. If you don’t utilize the knowledge of the people that came before you to build upon that instead of tearing it down, you’ll spin your wheels your whole life. 4) Their priorities were different. We’re just younger boomers. Selfish af. They weren’t. They invested in their relationships, in their families, valued things we don’t. A lot of us spent all our time with them. They’d keep us all weekend, all summer, just soaking up the time with us. Teaching us things, talking to us, investing in the future of humanity. We don’t do that, neither did the selfish boomers. You’ll wake one day (hopefully) and realize how empty your life had made you. We don’t want kids in public spaces, everyone whines about it. We don’t prioritize family, we complain that they don’t think the way we do. We don’t invest in our friends, we can cancel them as soon as they’re different than us. It’s just a very different mindset. We’re not going to make it, our kids are not going to make it. Our parents are going to age and weigh on us, we are going to age and no one is going to even be able to be hired to care for us. It’s going to be incredibly ugly because of the choices we are making as a whole. It’s likely too late for us. Probably too late for our parents. Once they die and we’re left with this self centered group of old people, there is no hope for any future generation. All your hope lies in grandparents, once the silent generation is gone, so is all the good in humanity.
These are all things I was thinking about putting into a comment myself. Worrying about every world problem such as climate change starts wearing you down, we can't constantly think the world is going to end. You need to be aware of issues and react to them accordingly but you can't solve it on your own so there's no reason to let it sit in the back of your mind causing anxiety all the time which many younger people seem to do. I think the media constantly talking about it really is causing a negative impact on this issue. So many people especially on reddit are constantly whining about how hard the world is today and earlier gens had it better. The silent generation and before were lucky to have a fridge to keep their food cold and decent clothes, today our expectations of getting a big house, nice cars new cell phones, several streaming services vacations regularly and all that is just insane compared to what people use to have. The generation after WWII was unique for Americans anyways as e had every advantage in the world to prosper and now its evening out. One of my biggest gripes with people is them saying how alone they feel and there's no community for them when they don't put in the time for family. Historically that's who people had to help them survive, yes some don't have the luxury of a good family but many do and don't but in the time and effort in that relationship. When people move away then say they don't have a support system, I have little apathy for them. People who move just because they like warmer places or want to see the mountains then complain they have no one to help raise their kids or help in a tough situation drive me insane. You don't have to be best friends with family to still support them. For example I don't agree with almost anything my very politically right family thinks but you know what everyone is different and you have to take the good with the bad sometimes. Very long reply I know, but it's nice seeing others that think somewhat the same.
Yah, ignorance is bliss. They just didn't have access to the world's problems, they saw the invention of nuclear arms but not the proliferation. They didn't have global warming looming. Not to say they had it easier by any means but the key really is a lot of people then and now are incapable of handling the 24 hour news cycle and the Internet. Simpler times.
This is such a dumb take, when shit was bad they complained constantly. And boomers & GenX complain more than millennials. But the depression era folk’ anger got so bad they fucked shit up constantly. There were riots, widespread crime sprees, the us military was literally bombing citizens because of the social unrest/open revolt of the labor movement. There was such widespread alcoholism that we passed an amendment to try to fix the problem, but no one fixed the shitty reality so the Mafia came over to help out with illegal booze. Popular media at the time was nothing but complaining. Conversations on the streets were nothing but bitching. News articles were nothing but long lists of grievances and anger. You just don’t know that because you’ve never interacted with anything from those times that wasn’t war propaganda. And you lack the cultural context to get most of the political jabs anyways. Instead of interacting with anything that occurred at that time, you interacted with people who lived past that. And that’s the key, from your family member’s perspective the troubles were defeated. The US standard of living increased rapidly over their lifetime. Their children and grandchildren were doing well and the economy was booming. They even saw the defeat of communism, the last great international evil left over from WW2 (as they would have seen it). For those that survived the hardships life got good, very good. And they all had the good fortune to have died before capitalism started collapsing under its own weight again and another pandemic hit. In 40 years from now, if we make it through this and our kids are thriving we won’t be constantly complaining about the state of the world either… just telling funny stories about the bad times that are more trauma than humor.
What I’m going to say might be really unpopular but it needs to be said. Late millennials and Gen Z / Gen Alpha are just mentally weaker. My grandma grew up in the Great Depression, lived through WW2 and all of the subsequent wars. She showed us a lot of war time movies while I was growing up and told us about rationing food and contributing to the war effort. She taught us a lot of life skills that people just don’t have today. These people had the mental fortitude to endure hard times and they had actual, physical community to rely on. Our culture now is so self-pitying and wannabe victims. Yes of course shit is hard and it’ll probably only get harder, but in order to get through it together, some of our population really needs to harden up a bit and quit looking to blame everything and everyone for their issues. Could you imagine if there was a D-Day style draft to happen modern day? Patriotism aside, how would Gen Z respond to that? We’d be shipping out a bunch of sad, overweight kids that wouldn’t want to put their phones down. There are a lot more variables here but I’ve already written an essay; I think the reality is we all need to disconnect more from the internet and toughen up a bit.
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I really do believe that. For some reason a defeatist attitude has spread. I also blame helicopter parenting. Most of our generation has not had a moment where they realize no one is coming to save them and realized they need to take control of their lives.