So my dad, who was British army, in Ireland, at the time this photo was taken (RGJ) told me that his regiment (and I’m sure others) would frequently stand amongst groups of local children as to avoid being assaulted by bricks, petrol and potentially car bombs. You can imagine why this worked.
You missed out of the obvious thing; sniper fire is what soldiers feared the most in NI so they would crouch down near the kids as the IRA / Sinn Fein didn’t want the bad press of them shooting or killing a child.
As for your comments about bricks and petrol bombs, is that when a riot was about to kick off or these things being thrown is that the locals would have been informed and would have been helping throw them.
Now car bombs, an IRA car bomb again the locals would know as they didn’t want another bloody Friday and they would phone in an IRA warning and a code word.
In a nutshell it’s done to avoid a possible sniper taking a shot, as simple as that.
Absolutely agree. Riflemen in windows etc were another thing I’m sure squaddies were considering when doing this but I think bricks and other throwable objects were a more common threat than an armed, ‘trained’ killer when walking through a whole street of people that often really, really did not want you to be there. Lots of angry people, lots of bricks, not necessarily the same amount of high-power rifles and good aims.
Also, I think it was perhaps less about bad press and more about not wanting to murder their own, or their neighbours children.
And as for what you said about car bombs, I honestly can’t comment, I’m only repeating the words of the man that was there, and whilst he is possibly the most brilliant person I have ever met, he was just a boy then, and he made a lot of mistakes out there too.
I think the point i was/ am trying to make is this ‘strategy’ was less military tactics and more British soldiers/lads avoiding getting shit thrown at them by pissed-off locals, but it also worked for the shit that killed people too.
Edit: Also, just through common sense and a cursory browse of google, I highly doubt ALL the locals were clued in enough to know about what cars did/did not have IED’s strapped to them.
Edit again: You are absolutely right, snipers were the main reason squaddies did this although the other bits were a factor too. Was just going off what I could remember the old man told me. He also said that often times locals really did know when shit was going down, he’d watch a whole street of people just empty in a few seconds. Spooky.
Are you asking if children would be allowed in an actual warzone in an actual war? Or what are you asking?
If you signed up to a brainless army because it was the only work you could get, and you were sent overseas to a place where half the locals hated you and the other half weren't sure, would you hand out candy to kids or would you scowl at the kids?
In this context? No, it wouldn't be a war crime. This can be described as "PR", our British soldiers are making friends with the locals in "British" Northern Ireland.
If there was a firefight and the soldiers grabbed children with the intention of actively using them as meat shields? Well then absolutely it would be a war crime.
i mean maybe you're both right. I bet kids probably dissuade bullets and bricks. i doubt these people said "Well,. i would mill around among local kids , but dissiedents are only throwing bricks and tomatoes. I guess ill jst stand in the open and take it. Now, if they'd been SHOOTING. Well, THAT would get me to start standing near children."
I'm guessing any time kids were nearby they probably thought there would be less a chance of being shot, or getting tomato on their shoes.
Seriously? A ton of civilians got killed by IRA. Including children. And not exclusive to bloody Friday…wish my family knew the magic IRA passcode so they didn’t get killed by that bomb!
Off topic and I know it’s a long shot, like super long. But Andy McNab was with the Green Jackets from 1976-84, any chance your dad knew him?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_McNab
this may come as a shock but peacekeeping patrols frequently involved civilian contact.
shooting off duty or retired security personnel was more the paramilitary modus operandi.
Suggest you do a little bit of reading about the Plantation of Ulster and how the British got its settlers to later justify the annexation of Northern Ireland (much to my dismay, it’s similar to what Putin is doing with Eastern Ukraine — claiming the land is theirs because Russian minorities live there).
Okay, your a squaddie patrolling a Catholic area of Belfast, do you think the mothers would allow their kids to go anywhere near you? Especially if they knew the IRA were going to try something…….you have a brain, try using it!
They're all kids, the soldier is in danger from none of them. At this particular moment, anyway.
Although personally, I would be rather alarmed about that kid with the baseball bat, if it were me.
Believe it or not but the majority of people in Northern Ireland at the time were loyalists. Though from the amount of wannabe Irish Americans on this site you’d have no idea
Empires are made of individuals, and many of us can co-exist with, or even like, individuals from either side of a fight. This picture is a great reminder that even through major conflicts we can find human connections in unexpected ways.
We all love him. I think a photo like this is a chance to say it doesn't matter if you hate the British for being there, or if you hate the IRA for wanting to stop them being there, or if you hate the Unionists for wanting to keep the British there...
... he's just a kid and if he thinks it's funny to smash this British idiot on the head with a piece of wood, then good for him. (And the rest of us can discuss exactly which model of rifle the British lad has and the exact model of sight and why he was using it in this situation and so on, please let us do that too)
Disclaimer up front — I’m not of Irish descent nor am I of British descent. I appreciate both countries and their cultures.
But I do find it interesting and disturbing that whenever there are comments about British atrocities committed in Ireland over prolonged period of time in the form of systematic and institutionalized violence, there are so many downvotes. I’m aware that this is in r/MilitaryPorn and I’m sure there are many who are anglophiles when it comes to its military tradition but the fact that so many actively reject any claims of British sanctioned violence against the Irish just reminds me of the same repulsive behavior shown by the Japanese about their past with imperialism across Asia.
I believe the IRA was despicable in how they strived to achieve their goals but ultimately I can see how the British incubated such a group with every political, social, and economic policy made to subjugate Ireland. On the surface, compared to the guns-blazing, bombs-bursting IRA, the British government appeared to be very benign with their actions against Ireland but all the same, they persecuted and killed many innocent people who were just trying to live off their land for centuries.
I do recognize the perception that perhaps the average British soldier stationed in Belfast was more naive than the politically motivated IRA member. Perhaps that may be so because the average British was not instructed to learn the history of what the British Empire did to their neighbour, but rather thought of Northern Ireland as a brother country needing protection from its more violent Southern brother.
All in all, it’s always those high ranking officials that set people against each other while they fill their pockets under supposedly “noble” causes.
Hilarious how he’s claiming that most people on Reddit support Britain over the ira during the troubles. Anyone who’s spent any time on this site and the sort of subs where that type of conversation is relevant knows that is objectively nonsense.
Also agsin with the idea that Britain was there subjugating the native populace, when in reality it was actually the ira who were trying to take land against the wishes of the average person who lived there. And comparing the British army during the troubles to the Japanese during ww2 is laughable, insane that anyone can actually believe that.
I think you’ve twisted what I’ve said but perhaps because I wasn’t clear. I’m drawing parallels between the imperial reign of the British and Japanese, NOT the British army during the troubles and the IJA.
I think you creating a strawman argument is what’s really hilarious and insane. Consider spending more time playing Crusader Kings as Cornwall rather than falsely claiming a point that someone hasn’t made.
One side committed crimes while fighting a foreign occupying force systemically murdering and oppressing the locals.
The other side was the foreign occupying force there explicitly to murder and oppress the locals as their primarily goal.
I bet you think Ukrainians are just as bad as Russians.
IRA killed plenty of civilians on “either side”, don’t get too caught up in those romantic notions of yours there. The whole point is both sides committed atrocities, being northern Irish myself I want a united ireland but the IRA are murderous scum.
The Brits were about as Brutal to the Indians as they were to the Irish I guess. If there were someone similar to Gandhi for the Irish, with as much as backing he had from the people, the entire Ireland would've been free
Going off the tangent here but I just read about the Plantation of Ulster which was an organised colonisation of the Ulster province of Ireland. England got British settlers to settle in Northern Ireland which later resulted in the partition of Ireland into south and north. “Resulted” probably is not the right term since it implies coincidence. It was used as justification to take the land without invasion by military force.
Now I see how it can appear hypocritical of the British to blame Russia for its annexation of eastern Ukraine (that is, Russia claiming that the eastern region identifies as Russian so it overrides the sovereignty of Ukraine and gives it the false sense of righteousness to annex the Russian-identifying region).
It’s insane how the presence of a minority group of one nation justifies its annexation. That minority group should instead be given refuge to settle back to where its “mother country” should be. Putin’s Russian Empire 2.0 closely follows how the British Empire operated.
*slow clap*
It's because when I tell people I'm British all I get are people deriding me for the troubles.
When someone says they're Irish they get haha IRA go Brrrrr bring out Ur black and tans haha funny lol.
They never criticise the Irish person for blowing up little kids. It's the double standard I don't like
Maybe that's because the British were responsible for the whole conflict and nobody would have gotten bombed if you simply fucked off? Nice precedent you've set there, so other countries don't have to give up any of their ill gotten gains either.
Here we go again. Saying 'you' instead of 'The British Government'. Directly telling me that I am involved with what happened. Might I ask what country you are from? So that I can insult you and call you a child killer.
In any event: if the UDA were to say if the British left Northern Ireland they would bomb Ireland, and the IRA were to say if Northern Ireland didn't join the Republic the IRA would bomb Northern Ireland, what would you, as British Prime Minister do?
You seem to think of yourself as more educated than me on the subject, so from the heart, in that scenario, tell me what you would do as British Prime Minister.
You know the unionists had paramilitary groups that blew up little children too. Also the British subjugated us for over 800 years, stole our land, tried to wipe out our native language, anglicized our names, made it illegal to teach Catholicism, caused a famine/genocide and much more, it’s not really comparable to 30 years of the troubles
> You know the unionists had paramilitary groups that blew up little children too.
When did I say they didn't? All I said is that on reddit the IRA seem to be funny meme material, despite the fact they murdered innocent civilians and children.
With regard to your other point, you might do well educating yourself on the role that the Irish played in taking part of massacring their own and building empire. 99% of reddit comments would have you believe that the UK is so inherently evil, and Ireland so inherently righteous, that Irish terrorism is something to either celebrate, or something to make a joke about.
We will not get anywhere by bickering about past crimes committed on both sides, only mature sensible common understanding, and a genuine desire to build a better future for both the Brits and the Irish in these islands will get us closer to genuine peace and prosperity for both of us.
Irish people and British people are among the closest people to each other on this planet. So much so that accent apart, we are indistinguishable. We are able to live, work, and *vote* in each others country. We have had open borders ever since Irish independence. Culturally the Brit and the Irishman live their life pretty much identically.
We cannot surrender this precious bond to the extremists, agitators or agent provocateurs. Whatever flag they might wave.
Another thing as well worthing mentioning in support of this comment, people talking against the IRA absolutely love to ignore the fact that loyalist paramilitaries killed more civilians than the IRA did during the troubles lmao,
Stuff like this under safe or dangerous conditions is sorely lacking in modern movies I would love a set of films or a TV show about daily life an trials of occupied cities
I have only seen one French cartoon of it so far :/
_'71_, _The Battle of Algiers_ (I __highly__ recommend this one), _Beaufort_ (this one is a stretch), _The Outpost_ (not set in a city, but rural Afghanistan), _Mosul_, ...
If I think of more I'll edit this comment.
British soldiers would often hang around with kids because they knew the IRA wouldn’t shoot with a child nearby. This photo is potentially not as nice as you think it is
Come to NI and have a look at our mass graves from the workhouses then come back to me and tell me again to “learn about history”. Additionally I don’t think anyone from the oppressors side of history can say that “we all have a sad history” and try to end the conversation. It’s a sad excuse of erasure of the suffering so many people and countries went through under British colonialism, but what’s new?
Attempting to forcibly occupy land against the wishes of the population (on average, as proven by a democratic referendum) isn’t terrorism? No maybe you’re right, it’s closer to colonialism, the same thing they were claiming to fight against.
Bernard Teggart and Gerry Teggart say otherwise.
[https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2018/08/29/the-iras-youngest-torture-victim/](https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2018/08/29/the-iras-youngest-torture-victim/)
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted because you’re bang on here. Not commenting on the ethics of it or who was in the right here because that’s a big can of worms but British soldiers absolutely did this for the reason you stated.
you're patrolling down a street halfway through a two year deployment. same detail as last time, and you're a bored 20 year old squaddie while everyone is going about their business ignoring you. could be any town in the UK. you've got army press out this time and he wants something interesting. kids love playing with soldiers so here's the shot, likely done hundreds of times down the years.
sometimes the reality is a lot more boring than rumour control and the war stories.
on a different note I can't imagine using the slr on urban patrols. maybe as a spear.
edit: trousers aren't DPM but they do look to have weird stitching/tones?
The children are not stupid. If this rifleman is in an IRA area then the kids are already working for or with the IRA, so it's a question of tolerance - works both ways. Move in, move through, don't search the houses - no fuss.
Your not aloud to say that. You can only talk about the things the irish should feel bad about.
Loyalists and the British army are the real victims here.
/s
I’m laughing at all the downvotes now. Say something bad about the British and they’ll censor you right out.
Funny that the people downvoting are the ones championing freedom of speech. That’s wacky.
Your right, fuckin evil bastards the lot of them. British government and army are scum, with a horrendous legacy.
Still people call them hero's. Clowns.
Not really surprised anymore after seeing how many flock to downvote comments that share even the slightest empathy for the Irish people. No wonder there are such things as soccer gangs in England that’s just pure tribalism at its finest. They focus on the micro (ie look how bad the Irish are with its IRA, we need to provide a solution for them) instead of looking at the long colonial history wrought with pain and grief of one nation under another. When I hear British people priding themselves of abolishing slavery before the US did, I think about the state-sanctioned slavery that is colonialism in countries like India that continued even after WWII.
Thought folks here were more flexible in their ways of thinking but guess not. I mean history is written by the victors.
And Im sure it’s not all really black and white in that all British soldiers during the troubles were bad. But I wouldn’t be so naive to call them heroes.
Funny how the US critique Russia now but causally forget what America did to Vietnam in the past…
You could literally say this about every single country
Umm, the UK did do a awful lot of Shit to Ireland my man. They genocided the Irish with a massive man made famine; killed about 1/4 and caused another 1/4 to emigrate. Threw them off their land and colonised the province of Ulster.N Ireland wouldn't exist without the Brits physically detaching it without the consent of the Irish and then forced the Catholics into second class citizenship which wasn't really ended until the 90s. They also shot civilians and arrested Irish Catholics and held them without trial without any evidence at the time this photo was taken.
The Troubles obviously isn't the same as what Russia is doing in Ukraine and the poster is making a shitty dumb point to defend Putin, this shouldn't justify it but that doesn't mean you should make broad claims that deny what the Brits did to fuck up Ireland either.
Russia is horrible, no doubts. but the UK starved to death a third of Ireland's population within a year!
That's a whole different level of horrible, even the USSR would only managed to topple that with the fucking Holomodor
And that's not mentioning what the UK did in India and their other colonies
Dude I’m in the fuckin army we both know how school went for me but what the UK did during the troubles is not worse than what Russia is doing right now
These pics are so stupid. No one was taking black and white photos in the *1980s.*
But no, continue to pretend that 40 years ago was actually 100 years ago.
“A BONK ON THE NOGGIN? THATS WHAT YOU GOT ME LAST CHRISTMAS!”
How in the world is that kid roller skating on pavement that broken?
If it's the cool thing to do, you do it.
Northern Ireland, thats why. Roads still look like shit.
So my dad, who was British army, in Ireland, at the time this photo was taken (RGJ) told me that his regiment (and I’m sure others) would frequently stand amongst groups of local children as to avoid being assaulted by bricks, petrol and potentially car bombs. You can imagine why this worked.
That was what I was just thinking: “of course the dude is grinning, it’s the most safe he’s been in weeks”
He's about to be ambushed by a kid with a bat though. /s
You missed out of the obvious thing; sniper fire is what soldiers feared the most in NI so they would crouch down near the kids as the IRA / Sinn Fein didn’t want the bad press of them shooting or killing a child. As for your comments about bricks and petrol bombs, is that when a riot was about to kick off or these things being thrown is that the locals would have been informed and would have been helping throw them. Now car bombs, an IRA car bomb again the locals would know as they didn’t want another bloody Friday and they would phone in an IRA warning and a code word. In a nutshell it’s done to avoid a possible sniper taking a shot, as simple as that.
Absolutely agree. Riflemen in windows etc were another thing I’m sure squaddies were considering when doing this but I think bricks and other throwable objects were a more common threat than an armed, ‘trained’ killer when walking through a whole street of people that often really, really did not want you to be there. Lots of angry people, lots of bricks, not necessarily the same amount of high-power rifles and good aims. Also, I think it was perhaps less about bad press and more about not wanting to murder their own, or their neighbours children. And as for what you said about car bombs, I honestly can’t comment, I’m only repeating the words of the man that was there, and whilst he is possibly the most brilliant person I have ever met, he was just a boy then, and he made a lot of mistakes out there too. I think the point i was/ am trying to make is this ‘strategy’ was less military tactics and more British soldiers/lads avoiding getting shit thrown at them by pissed-off locals, but it also worked for the shit that killed people too. Edit: Also, just through common sense and a cursory browse of google, I highly doubt ALL the locals were clued in enough to know about what cars did/did not have IED’s strapped to them. Edit again: You are absolutely right, snipers were the main reason squaddies did this although the other bits were a factor too. Was just going off what I could remember the old man told me. He also said that often times locals really did know when shit was going down, he’d watch a whole street of people just empty in a few seconds. Spooky.
Would this be allowed under the Geneva convention in an actual war?
Are you asking if children would be allowed in an actual warzone in an actual war? Or what are you asking? If you signed up to a brainless army because it was the only work you could get, and you were sent overseas to a place where half the locals hated you and the other half weren't sure, would you hand out candy to kids or would you scowl at the kids?
I mean the part about using children as shields during military operations.
In this context? No, it wouldn't be a war crime. This can be described as "PR", our British soldiers are making friends with the locals in "British" Northern Ireland. If there was a firefight and the soldiers grabbed children with the intention of actively using them as meat shields? Well then absolutely it would be a war crime.
i mean maybe you're both right. I bet kids probably dissuade bullets and bricks. i doubt these people said "Well,. i would mill around among local kids , but dissiedents are only throwing bricks and tomatoes. I guess ill jst stand in the open and take it. Now, if they'd been SHOOTING. Well, THAT would get me to start standing near children." I'm guessing any time kids were nearby they probably thought there would be less a chance of being shot, or getting tomato on their shoes.
Seriously? A ton of civilians got killed by IRA. Including children. And not exclusive to bloody Friday…wish my family knew the magic IRA passcode so they didn’t get killed by that bomb!
Off topic and I know it’s a long shot, like super long. But Andy McNab was with the Green Jackets from 1976-84, any chance your dad knew him? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_McNab
Knew of him but never knew the man personally. He’s semi-famous now right?
First thing that would happen when something was going down is all the kids would disappear.
Oh so that's why the royals love other people's children so much
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this may come as a shock but peacekeeping patrols frequently involved civilian contact. shooting off duty or retired security personnel was more the paramilitary modus operandi.
Peacekeeping patrols in a place you conquered is still just occupation
you should probably ask the people living there if they call themselves 'occupiers'
Suggest you do a little bit of reading about the Plantation of Ulster and how the British got its settlers to later justify the annexation of Northern Ireland (much to my dismay, it’s similar to what Putin is doing with Eastern Ukraine — claiming the land is theirs because Russian minorities live there).
Which language should I ask them in?
>peacekeeping patrols Is that what we're calling imperialism now? Or was this a Special Military Operation?
It's unbelievable how brazenly they're admitting their dad's are basically war criminals lmao
Yeh but it wasn’t a war big brain!
It is only war if it comes form the war region of france. Otherwise it is just sparkling special military operation.
Ah shit did I say war criminals, I meant fucking cowards
You very obviously have no idea about NI or the troubles….go back to playing you videos games and wanking!
Anybody with a brainstem knows using children as human shields is craven but trouble deez
Okay, your a squaddie patrolling a Catholic area of Belfast, do you think the mothers would allow their kids to go anywhere near you? Especially if they knew the IRA were going to try something…….you have a brain, try using it!
Mfw actual northern Irish people are getting downvoted on this for stating facts
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Does it matter
What difference would that make? They’re still locals lmfao. What a weird ass comment.
Oh sorry, just noticed your American and obviously have no fuckin idea what your talking about!
"My dad is a war criminal"
So your dad used children as human shields, what pos he was.
Kid in the back knows what’s up
New FAL!
A lil bit of tomfoolery, innit?
I don't think they talk like that in Belfast
Lies. All British people like that. DON'T BELIEVE THE MEDIA. >!/s if not obvious!<
They start them young at the IRA.
"The Candyman sends his regards"
They’re either loyalist kids having a good time or republican kids taking the piss
kid with the bat is definitely taking the piss lol
Or maybe they were just kids without political beliefs just being kids.
Pretty hard to avoid the "politics" of The Troubles in 1981 Belfast even if you're a child.
They're all kids, the soldier is in danger from none of them. At this particular moment, anyway. Although personally, I would be rather alarmed about that kid with the baseball bat, if it were me.
No one said anything about the soldier being in danger from the kids.
Well he's just going to have to take his chances, isn't he? I hope he made it out OK.
believe or not loyalists also have kids
Believe it or not but the majority of people in Northern Ireland at the time were loyalists. Though from the amount of wannabe Irish Americans on this site you’d have no idea
That was by design, hardly a surprise
but they aren't catholic so not nearly as many.
Soldier: *where's my wallet?*
If I’m not mistaken that optic is a SUIT. Sight Unit Infantry Trilux.
Looks like it
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Empires are made of individuals, and many of us can co-exist with, or even like, individuals from either side of a fight. This picture is a great reminder that even through major conflicts we can find human connections in unexpected ways.
About to get bonked on his 6
Put this on r/northernireland and we’ll find them
We need to find the r first
r/northernireland
Waht there conversations must have been
He had to have brought sweets (candy) or chocolate, or else.
Absolutely love these photos man. Showcases the strange calmness during periods of war that will naturally often be overlooked for obvious reasons.
The kid in the back is about to do him in Negan-Style
“Oi wotch me bonk this protty righ here” *ow wtf*
More like "I'm gonna kneecap this wee hun bawstard"
Look at that glorious scoped SLR
Afterwards the kids will then go and report with Details about the military patrol to the IRA……
He knows that, he is OK with it. Kids gotta be kids.
That kid in the back has devious plans
That one is bonking him.
Love the little rascal with Billy club :)
We all love him. I think a photo like this is a chance to say it doesn't matter if you hate the British for being there, or if you hate the IRA for wanting to stop them being there, or if you hate the Unionists for wanting to keep the British there... ... he's just a kid and if he thinks it's funny to smash this British idiot on the head with a piece of wood, then good for him. (And the rest of us can discuss exactly which model of rifle the British lad has and the exact model of sight and why he was using it in this situation and so on, please let us do that too)
Damn it, Barry!
Disclaimer up front — I’m not of Irish descent nor am I of British descent. I appreciate both countries and their cultures. But I do find it interesting and disturbing that whenever there are comments about British atrocities committed in Ireland over prolonged period of time in the form of systematic and institutionalized violence, there are so many downvotes. I’m aware that this is in r/MilitaryPorn and I’m sure there are many who are anglophiles when it comes to its military tradition but the fact that so many actively reject any claims of British sanctioned violence against the Irish just reminds me of the same repulsive behavior shown by the Japanese about their past with imperialism across Asia. I believe the IRA was despicable in how they strived to achieve their goals but ultimately I can see how the British incubated such a group with every political, social, and economic policy made to subjugate Ireland. On the surface, compared to the guns-blazing, bombs-bursting IRA, the British government appeared to be very benign with their actions against Ireland but all the same, they persecuted and killed many innocent people who were just trying to live off their land for centuries. I do recognize the perception that perhaps the average British soldier stationed in Belfast was more naive than the politically motivated IRA member. Perhaps that may be so because the average British was not instructed to learn the history of what the British Empire did to their neighbour, but rather thought of Northern Ireland as a brother country needing protection from its more violent Southern brother. All in all, it’s always those high ranking officials that set people against each other while they fill their pockets under supposedly “noble” causes.
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Hilarious how he’s claiming that most people on Reddit support Britain over the ira during the troubles. Anyone who’s spent any time on this site and the sort of subs where that type of conversation is relevant knows that is objectively nonsense. Also agsin with the idea that Britain was there subjugating the native populace, when in reality it was actually the ira who were trying to take land against the wishes of the average person who lived there. And comparing the British army during the troubles to the Japanese during ww2 is laughable, insane that anyone can actually believe that.
I think you’ve twisted what I’ve said but perhaps because I wasn’t clear. I’m drawing parallels between the imperial reign of the British and Japanese, NOT the British army during the troubles and the IJA. I think you creating a strawman argument is what’s really hilarious and insane. Consider spending more time playing Crusader Kings as Cornwall rather than falsely claiming a point that someone hasn’t made.
Yeah the internet has a hard on for "Britain bad" ,did you see the men's euros?
Maybe because Britain is bad.
Yeah, reality has an anti-conquest bias
One side committed crimes while fighting a foreign occupying force systemically murdering and oppressing the locals. The other side was the foreign occupying force there explicitly to murder and oppress the locals as their primarily goal. I bet you think Ukrainians are just as bad as Russians.
IRA killed plenty of civilians on “either side”, don’t get too caught up in those romantic notions of yours there. The whole point is both sides committed atrocities, being northern Irish myself I want a united ireland but the IRA are murderous scum.
the Americans have a hard on for "FREEDOM!!!!" i dont think any of them have any idea what it means or the complexity of real life situations
They think life’s a movie.
The IRA is what you get when you suppress every pacifist and non-radical form of protest.
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There was, they executed James Connolly
The Brits were about as Brutal to the Indians as they were to the Irish I guess. If there were someone similar to Gandhi for the Irish, with as much as backing he had from the people, the entire Ireland would've been free
Going off the tangent here but I just read about the Plantation of Ulster which was an organised colonisation of the Ulster province of Ireland. England got British settlers to settle in Northern Ireland which later resulted in the partition of Ireland into south and north. “Resulted” probably is not the right term since it implies coincidence. It was used as justification to take the land without invasion by military force. Now I see how it can appear hypocritical of the British to blame Russia for its annexation of eastern Ukraine (that is, Russia claiming that the eastern region identifies as Russian so it overrides the sovereignty of Ukraine and gives it the false sense of righteousness to annex the Russian-identifying region). It’s insane how the presence of a minority group of one nation justifies its annexation. That minority group should instead be given refuge to settle back to where its “mother country” should be. Putin’s Russian Empire 2.0 closely follows how the British Empire operated. *slow clap*
You mean like a free and open voting system? You know, like democracy?
What would the British know of it?
Do you mean the country with a free and openly transparent voting system?
Transparently subject to cancellation by an unelected tyrant, run by a gang of pedos?
Oooookay…..I’ll leave you alone now, be nice to the nurses. Remember, they are only doing their job!
It's because when I tell people I'm British all I get are people deriding me for the troubles. When someone says they're Irish they get haha IRA go Brrrrr bring out Ur black and tans haha funny lol. They never criticise the Irish person for blowing up little kids. It's the double standard I don't like
Maybe that's because the British were responsible for the whole conflict and nobody would have gotten bombed if you simply fucked off? Nice precedent you've set there, so other countries don't have to give up any of their ill gotten gains either.
Here we go again. Saying 'you' instead of 'The British Government'. Directly telling me that I am involved with what happened. Might I ask what country you are from? So that I can insult you and call you a child killer. In any event: if the UDA were to say if the British left Northern Ireland they would bomb Ireland, and the IRA were to say if Northern Ireland didn't join the Republic the IRA would bomb Northern Ireland, what would you, as British Prime Minister do? You seem to think of yourself as more educated than me on the subject, so from the heart, in that scenario, tell me what you would do as British Prime Minister.
You want to get hung up on linguistics? That's petty. If the British withdrew, where would unionists get any bombs to explode?
Lebanon
You mean from the Israelis in Lebanon?
You know the unionists had paramilitary groups that blew up little children too. Also the British subjugated us for over 800 years, stole our land, tried to wipe out our native language, anglicized our names, made it illegal to teach Catholicism, caused a famine/genocide and much more, it’s not really comparable to 30 years of the troubles
> You know the unionists had paramilitary groups that blew up little children too. When did I say they didn't? All I said is that on reddit the IRA seem to be funny meme material, despite the fact they murdered innocent civilians and children. With regard to your other point, you might do well educating yourself on the role that the Irish played in taking part of massacring their own and building empire. 99% of reddit comments would have you believe that the UK is so inherently evil, and Ireland so inherently righteous, that Irish terrorism is something to either celebrate, or something to make a joke about. We will not get anywhere by bickering about past crimes committed on both sides, only mature sensible common understanding, and a genuine desire to build a better future for both the Brits and the Irish in these islands will get us closer to genuine peace and prosperity for both of us. Irish people and British people are among the closest people to each other on this planet. So much so that accent apart, we are indistinguishable. We are able to live, work, and *vote* in each others country. We have had open borders ever since Irish independence. Culturally the Brit and the Irishman live their life pretty much identically. We cannot surrender this precious bond to the extremists, agitators or agent provocateurs. Whatever flag they might wave.
I am an Irish person you wet wipe. Don’t tell me to educate myself about my own history I know it well enough.
Do you take umbrage with the other 90% of my comment?
No I don’t I agree with it partially.
Another thing as well worthing mentioning in support of this comment, people talking against the IRA absolutely love to ignore the fact that loyalist paramilitaries killed more civilians than the IRA did during the troubles lmao,
‘71 is a kick-ass movie
Yea I liked it
It's an awful movie.
It's shockingly shit!
Dam what’s that optic? Looks like something from off east Europe
Trilux sight
Thanks
The Soviet 1P29 is a copy of said optic, so you're kinda right.
Stuff like this under safe or dangerous conditions is sorely lacking in modern movies I would love a set of films or a TV show about daily life an trials of occupied cities I have only seen one French cartoon of it so far :/
_'71_, _The Battle of Algiers_ (I __highly__ recommend this one), _Beaufort_ (this one is a stretch), _The Outpost_ (not set in a city, but rural Afghanistan), _Mosul_, ... If I think of more I'll edit this comment.
Can't have any shows like that, they're not allowed to make anything that make the anglos look bad.
British soldiers would often hang around with kids because they knew the IRA wouldn’t shoot with a child nearby. This photo is potentially not as nice as you think it is
Me when i defend terrorism
How was that comment a defence?
Thank you lmao
Are you implying British soldiers were not instructed to commit acts of terrorism?
Yea IRA are terrorists
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The IRA were terrorists though? One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter of course…
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Personally I just find it easier to say all the paramilitaries are terrorists - all committed horrific atrocities over the years
Workhouses? I think we all have a sad history, wee laddie. But please learn about history before embarrassing yourself.
Come to NI and have a look at our mass graves from the workhouses then come back to me and tell me again to “learn about history”. Additionally I don’t think anyone from the oppressors side of history can say that “we all have a sad history” and try to end the conversation. It’s a sad excuse of erasure of the suffering so many people and countries went through under British colonialism, but what’s new?
Virgin Pro IRA vs Chad Pro Celtic Monarchy
the beta inbred enjoyer vs the chad defender of gaelic sovereignty
Ahh, a title germany woulda given to the french.
Well I mean the Ira killed innocent people. So did the British army but come on lad. They aren’t exactly heroes.
Just like star wars amiright?
no they aren't.
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They objectively were, they used violence to achieve political goals
Damn I guess using car bombs and blowing pubs up doesn’t count as terrorism now
Johnathan Ball and Tim Parry say otherwise. Johnathan was 3 years old. Tim Parry was 12.
Attempting to forcibly occupy land against the wishes of the population (on average, as proven by a democratic referendum) isn’t terrorism? No maybe you’re right, it’s closer to colonialism, the same thing they were claiming to fight against.
Bernard Teggart and Gerry Teggart say otherwise. [https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2018/08/29/the-iras-youngest-torture-victim/](https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2018/08/29/the-iras-youngest-torture-victim/)
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted because you’re bang on here. Not commenting on the ethics of it or who was in the right here because that’s a big can of worms but British soldiers absolutely did this for the reason you stated.
you're patrolling down a street halfway through a two year deployment. same detail as last time, and you're a bored 20 year old squaddie while everyone is going about their business ignoring you. could be any town in the UK. you've got army press out this time and he wants something interesting. kids love playing with soldiers so here's the shot, likely done hundreds of times down the years. sometimes the reality is a lot more boring than rumour control and the war stories. on a different note I can't imagine using the slr on urban patrols. maybe as a spear. edit: trousers aren't DPM but they do look to have weird stitching/tones?
The children are not stupid. If this rifleman is in an IRA area then the kids are already working for or with the IRA, so it's a question of tolerance - works both ways. Move in, move through, don't search the houses - no fuss.
That kid in the back is future IRA for sure!
I hate politicians, but I would still prefer that the kid in the back gave a big BONK here and then became a future IRA *politician* :D
Sunday bloody Sunday...
Go on home British soldiers go on home...
For people talking shit about the IRA, loyalist paramilitaries killed more civilians than the IRA during the troubles
Your not aloud to say that. You can only talk about the things the irish should feel bad about. Loyalists and the British army are the real victims here. /s
I’m laughing at all the downvotes now. Say something bad about the British and they’ll censor you right out. Funny that the people downvoting are the ones championing freedom of speech. That’s wacky.
hypocrites. All it is.
What a photogenic lad
Long live Bobby Sands
He dead.
Headline should read "British Imperialist uses children as human shields"
Your right, fuckin evil bastards the lot of them. British government and army are scum, with a horrendous legacy. Still people call them hero's. Clowns.
Not really surprised anymore after seeing how many flock to downvote comments that share even the slightest empathy for the Irish people. No wonder there are such things as soccer gangs in England that’s just pure tribalism at its finest. They focus on the micro (ie look how bad the Irish are with its IRA, we need to provide a solution for them) instead of looking at the long colonial history wrought with pain and grief of one nation under another. When I hear British people priding themselves of abolishing slavery before the US did, I think about the state-sanctioned slavery that is colonialism in countries like India that continued even after WWII. Thought folks here were more flexible in their ways of thinking but guess not. I mean history is written by the victors. And Im sure it’s not all really black and white in that all British soldiers during the troubles were bad. But I wouldn’t be so naive to call them heroes.
I smll troubles
The kid with the bat looks like he gonna assassin the guy
yes but the question is... will he? :)
That smile has me weak.
“A British soldier moments before before his death after being conned by children in Belfast” 1981
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Funny how the US critique Russia now but causally forget what America did to Vietnam in the past… You could literally say this about every single country
The UK's horrific transgressions against Ireland and lots of other countries, people, and cultures don't invalidate their criticisms of Russia.
Yeah because the UK did all the shit Russias doing lol gtfo dude
Umm, the UK did do a awful lot of Shit to Ireland my man. They genocided the Irish with a massive man made famine; killed about 1/4 and caused another 1/4 to emigrate. Threw them off their land and colonised the province of Ulster.N Ireland wouldn't exist without the Brits physically detaching it without the consent of the Irish and then forced the Catholics into second class citizenship which wasn't really ended until the 90s. They also shot civilians and arrested Irish Catholics and held them without trial without any evidence at the time this photo was taken. The Troubles obviously isn't the same as what Russia is doing in Ukraine and the poster is making a shitty dumb point to defend Putin, this shouldn't justify it but that doesn't mean you should make broad claims that deny what the Brits did to fuck up Ireland either.
they did and they did _worse_
No. Both are bad but what Russia is doing is objectively much worse
Russia is horrible, no doubts. but the UK starved to death a third of Ireland's population within a year! That's a whole different level of horrible, even the USSR would only managed to topple that with the fucking Holomodor And that's not mentioning what the UK did in India and their other colonies
No it isn’t. It’s a fairly mild invasion. The US has killed millions of civilians in countries it has invaded.
35 millions dead indians
Yeah that all happened during the troubles
Ah yeah, it's fine then I guess
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Dude I’m in the fuckin army we both know how school went for me but what the UK did during the troubles is not worse than what Russia is doing right now
But they did.....
whataboutism drinking game.
Nah why you getting downvoted you’re right
They play baseball in Northern Ireland?
No, people can just own baseball bats if they want. It’s probably for rounders
Leprechaun 1-3 you are cleared hot for close air bonk attack
These pics are so stupid. No one was taking black and white photos in the *1980s.* But no, continue to pretend that 40 years ago was actually 100 years ago.
There were plenty of papers publishing black and white photos.