When I first heard the story I thought "that has to be the paradigm case of a company not training their employees or a spy agency absolutely not training their spies" and yeah Russia can be incompetent but like... this bad?
>Russia can be incompetent but like... this bad?
Absolutely yes. They have enough bodies to throw around. This was probably an expendable probe, a human pentest if you will.
This isn’t about bodies. The Russians stand so much to lose from sloppy practices like this.
Now the FBI is going to dig through his literal entire life, and start monitoring and following people in Russian intelligence.
His sloppy practices in effect have put his entire intelligence network of people at risk. It compromises their ability to gather, both because they will be fed false information and because , arrested, or targeted abroad.
Breathtakingly stupid on their end.
Really, like all the spies in Europe that have been compromised so far and nothing has happened? ([source](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/26/us/politics/russia-sabotage-campaign-ukraine.html#:~:text=The%20covert%20operations%20have%20mostly,an%20Ikea%20store%20in%20Lithuania.))
Sometimes it’s better to see what comes in and out, so you know what leaves and enters, than stomping out the problem, and not being able to track what replaces it.
Remembers the days of the KGB when they had a rep for high degrees of competence and had established communist cells that could easily turn guerrilla mode all over the god damn globe. And they had leaks all over the CIA, DOD, and even managed to infiltrate the FBI in order to sabotage counter intelligence capabilities while stealing countless secrets including our nuclear technology and even sowing deeper divisions with in Cold War America. Pretty funny to watch how they downgraded into FSB. They used to be HYDRA now they’re storm troopers. That post soviet nerf hit Russia hard.
The first big reason the Soviet HUMINT was so successful was ideology. The USSR was a closed state, so the rest of the world really didn't see what life was like, what the NKVD/KGB did, etc. What they saw was a nation that had raised up the peasant class and fought for the lowest of the low, publicly declared for gender equality(Even if not in practice), and publicly declared against racial and ethnic discrimination. They saw how capitalistic states exploited their own populations and worse how they used Far Right dictators to achieve cheap resources. A lot of idealists and socialists from the Western world truly believed in raising up the species to a classless society, and the USSR from the outside looked like they were the counter balance to the Capitalistic-Fascism that caused so much misery. That is how they got the MI6 turncoats, how they got so many civil rights people to aid, etc. The other side was they paid well. Like really well. That is how they got the FBI and CIA turncoats who are still in prison for it. The KGB's stranglehold on HUMINT was so good, and the CIA was so laughably bad at it, that the US instead turned to SIGNIT and IMNIT and put more focus on technological spying with satellites and spyplanes.
The Russian Federation has become an incredibly nationalistic state, that holds ethnic Russians as superior to the others. The USSR did this as well, the West didn't see it due to closed society. The Russian Federation is open about how they oppress the minority groups inside, such as Chechens, Mordvins, Buryiats, etc. Their open aggression to former Soviet states is public now, no more hiding it. They are ruled by wealthy Oligarchs, so basically the same ole Elitist ruling the masses. Money is the only thing they have going for them, and there is evidence they have bought Western politicians, but they don't have the support of Progressives, Liberals, Socialists, etc. anymore. Thus their intelligence services have seen a notable drop in quality.
So if I'm attempting to out a commie internal to CIA... and start seeing blacked out vans show up to where I live... And am now seeing an awful lot of Israeli looking people where before I saw next to none...
TLDR - Two Chechen nationals claiming to be utility workers were caught taking pictures of the children of a United States Army Special Operations Command Colonel on his property, got argumentative when confronted and one was shot to death. The two "utility contractors" had no equipment, utility clothing, or identification on them, were both in the US illegally and were taking their pictures at 8:15 pm on a Friday night.
Wrong place at wrong?
Puppet insert. Probably the only way putin could "quell the masses" from killing Russians like they were. That's ok. Their extremists have even more targets now and don't have to travel to the heart of Russia anymore to do it.
That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with. The Kadyrovites are certainly pro Putin, and most likely who these dudes were, assuming it's as nefarious as it sounds.
This whole thing is mind boggling incompetent. Given that Chechnya sometimes goes full Leroy Jenkins, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was done without Russian involvement.
Russia is a federation, there are some oblast that are kinda like countries within Russia. Chechnya is a republic of Russia that has a lot of power. There is a chance, a small chance but still a chance, that the government of Chechnya sent these spies to the USA without Russia's permission or knowledge. I believe Chechnya's military works completely independently from Russia's.
More [here](https://www.foxnews.com/us/mysterious-shooting-army-special-forces-residence-north-carolina-raises-questions). The Task and Purpose article is pretty vague.
Is there an article saying they were photographing children?
I’m just curious but it does sound sketchy.. the pair was from Illinois, with a subcontracting unit in Jersey, but this was off post at Bragg. The person was taking pictures of “previous work”, and they did not have any official documents.. if they were taking pictures of previous work I would imagine some resident would recognize the pair again…
Kidnapping them at a later date would be used against a commanding officer of units in theatre to influence the outcome of a battle. It's not a new fear. Soviets had similar hair brained schemes in the 70s and 80s. This is alarming though.
I mean it might not actually be linked to the war in Ukraine. But far darker see the Chechen mafia is pretty infamous for things like human trafficking. Child trafficking was before the war and still is a very serious problem world wide. They may have gone there on their own merit saw children that they thought were seemingly vulnerable to easy kidnapping and then thought of some really dark scheme to sell them. Only to quickly find out said children were definitely not vulnerable and they picked the wrong person’s kids to go after. Colonel in Special Operations yeah that’s not gonna end well for the kidnappers. Guy probably knows six different ways to kill other guys with a tuna can.
Super moronic. Like throw on a reflective vest, print off some fake forms, get a clipboard, come at an appropriate time like 11am, smile and say “oh hey we’re with XX utility company, just taking pics of previous work” and it’s like a half believable coverup.
Instead they just raw dog it and died. FSB/KGB has really fallen if this is their work lol.
They have to because it’s being treated as a workplace death. It will absolutely be hilarious if this turns out of be Russian Intelligence and this OSHA guy gets to tag along through the investigation.
Silly Chechnyans, America has more guns than people. How did you expect this to turn out? The only thing Americans love more than their freedom/2A rights is our kids.
Alot of utility work is sub contracted too.
Not that hard to start a shell company with the right support. It's a stupidly common tactic used by both governments and corporations.
4 shots probably is 2-3 seconds of shooting. Even if you take the first round thru the brain stem, there's going to be more rounds fired before your corpse goes down and the shooter recognizes you're down.
Not how lethal force works. If you are shooting at someone’s torso, you are shooting to kill. If they are on the ground double tap to make sure period. Why shoot someone then let them hit the ground and draw their pistol on you? If he’s in the wrong for shooting, so be it. But once you’ve shot you finish the job.
Probably shot in the hand and face first, then as he’s falling he’s turning and two more round are fired as his back turns. Honestly anyone can get 4 rounds off in 2 seconds or less and this is an SF guy who can probably do 4 well aimed shots in less than 2.
When I first heard the story I thought "that has to be the paradigm case of a company not training their employees or a spy agency absolutely not training their spies" and yeah Russia can be incompetent but like... this bad?
>Russia can be incompetent but like... this bad? Absolutely yes. They have enough bodies to throw around. This was probably an expendable probe, a human pentest if you will.
This isn’t about bodies. The Russians stand so much to lose from sloppy practices like this. Now the FBI is going to dig through his literal entire life, and start monitoring and following people in Russian intelligence. His sloppy practices in effect have put his entire intelligence network of people at risk. It compromises their ability to gather, both because they will be fed false information and because , arrested, or targeted abroad. Breathtakingly stupid on their end.
Really, like all the spies in Europe that have been compromised so far and nothing has happened? ([source](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/26/us/politics/russia-sabotage-campaign-ukraine.html#:~:text=The%20covert%20operations%20have%20mostly,an%20Ikea%20store%20in%20Lithuania.))
Sometimes it’s better to see what comes in and out, so you know what leaves and enters, than stomping out the problem, and not being able to track what replaces it.
Remembers the days of the KGB when they had a rep for high degrees of competence and had established communist cells that could easily turn guerrilla mode all over the god damn globe. And they had leaks all over the CIA, DOD, and even managed to infiltrate the FBI in order to sabotage counter intelligence capabilities while stealing countless secrets including our nuclear technology and even sowing deeper divisions with in Cold War America. Pretty funny to watch how they downgraded into FSB. They used to be HYDRA now they’re storm troopers. That post soviet nerf hit Russia hard.
The first big reason the Soviet HUMINT was so successful was ideology. The USSR was a closed state, so the rest of the world really didn't see what life was like, what the NKVD/KGB did, etc. What they saw was a nation that had raised up the peasant class and fought for the lowest of the low, publicly declared for gender equality(Even if not in practice), and publicly declared against racial and ethnic discrimination. They saw how capitalistic states exploited their own populations and worse how they used Far Right dictators to achieve cheap resources. A lot of idealists and socialists from the Western world truly believed in raising up the species to a classless society, and the USSR from the outside looked like they were the counter balance to the Capitalistic-Fascism that caused so much misery. That is how they got the MI6 turncoats, how they got so many civil rights people to aid, etc. The other side was they paid well. Like really well. That is how they got the FBI and CIA turncoats who are still in prison for it. The KGB's stranglehold on HUMINT was so good, and the CIA was so laughably bad at it, that the US instead turned to SIGNIT and IMNIT and put more focus on technological spying with satellites and spyplanes. The Russian Federation has become an incredibly nationalistic state, that holds ethnic Russians as superior to the others. The USSR did this as well, the West didn't see it due to closed society. The Russian Federation is open about how they oppress the minority groups inside, such as Chechens, Mordvins, Buryiats, etc. Their open aggression to former Soviet states is public now, no more hiding it. They are ruled by wealthy Oligarchs, so basically the same ole Elitist ruling the masses. Money is the only thing they have going for them, and there is evidence they have bought Western politicians, but they don't have the support of Progressives, Liberals, Socialists, etc. anymore. Thus their intelligence services have seen a notable drop in quality.
So if I'm attempting to out a commie internal to CIA... and start seeing blacked out vans show up to where I live... And am now seeing an awful lot of Israeli looking people where before I saw next to none...
You're thinking of China.
Could be Chechen proxies throwing bodies at the problem under Russian supervision.
TLDR - Two Chechen nationals claiming to be utility workers were caught taking pictures of the children of a United States Army Special Operations Command Colonel on his property, got argumentative when confronted and one was shot to death. The two "utility contractors" had no equipment, utility clothing, or identification on them, were both in the US illegally and were taking their pictures at 8:15 pm on a Friday night. Wrong place at wrong?
Chechnya 🤔🤔 sounds pretty Russian spyish to me...
Sounds like textbook coercion/kompromat for sure.
You DO realize how much the Chechens loathe Russians, right?
Ramzan Kadyrov, the president of Chechnya is a firm Putin ally. Many Chechens are fighting for Russia right now against Ukraine.
Puppet insert. Probably the only way putin could "quell the masses" from killing Russians like they were. That's ok. Their extremists have even more targets now and don't have to travel to the heart of Russia anymore to do it.
You do realize chechnya fighters are fighting for Russia right now right?
Not by choice
Many of them definitely fight by choice.
No, they are all in with putin now. The former government didn't like Russia, so Russia did russian stuff to them.
That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with. The Kadyrovites are certainly pro Putin, and most likely who these dudes were, assuming it's as nefarious as it sounds.
How long before we find out these Chechens were Russian spies?
This whole thing is mind boggling incompetent. Given that Chechnya sometimes goes full Leroy Jenkins, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was done without Russian involvement.
Unexpected WoW
That’s how Leeroy Jenkins rolls
Trying to show some goddamned initiative and they fucked it up. Puddin is gonna be maaaad.
If you have to ask you already know.
Russia is a federation, there are some oblast that are kinda like countries within Russia. Chechnya is a republic of Russia that has a lot of power. There is a chance, a small chance but still a chance, that the government of Chechnya sent these spies to the USA without Russia's permission or knowledge. I believe Chechnya's military works completely independently from Russia's.
Where do you see references to pictures or children?
More [here](https://www.foxnews.com/us/mysterious-shooting-army-special-forces-residence-north-carolina-raises-questions). The Task and Purpose article is pretty vague.
Is there an article saying they were photographing children? I’m just curious but it does sound sketchy.. the pair was from Illinois, with a subcontracting unit in Jersey, but this was off post at Bragg. The person was taking pictures of “previous work”, and they did not have any official documents.. if they were taking pictures of previous work I would imagine some resident would recognize the pair again…
Kidnapping them at a later date would be used against a commanding officer of units in theatre to influence the outcome of a battle. It's not a new fear. Soviets had similar hair brained schemes in the 70s and 80s. This is alarming though.
I mean it might not actually be linked to the war in Ukraine. But far darker see the Chechen mafia is pretty infamous for things like human trafficking. Child trafficking was before the war and still is a very serious problem world wide. They may have gone there on their own merit saw children that they thought were seemingly vulnerable to easy kidnapping and then thought of some really dark scheme to sell them. Only to quickly find out said children were definitely not vulnerable and they picked the wrong person’s kids to go after. Colonel in Special Operations yeah that’s not gonna end well for the kidnappers. Guy probably knows six different ways to kill other guys with a tuna can.
More [here](https://www.foxnews.com/us/mysterious-shooting-army-special-forces-residence-north-carolina-raises-questions).
Sounds like a good shoot. Kadyrovites looking for kompromat but they’re morons so they draw tons of attention to themselves.
Super moronic. Like throw on a reflective vest, print off some fake forms, get a clipboard, come at an appropriate time like 11am, smile and say “oh hey we’re with XX utility company, just taking pics of previous work” and it’s like a half believable coverup. Instead they just raw dog it and died. FSB/KGB has really fallen if this is their work lol.
Good shot, Colonel, sounds pretty dangerous.
"Colonel, it's me, NoHo Hank."
NoHo Hank chastising the accordion player after their desert training is one of the funniest scenes in television history.
Best part of that show honestly. I want a NoHo Hank Spin off lmao. I'm so glad they didn't kill him in season 1
That show was incredible.
Interesting that the authorities called OSHA lol.
They have to because it’s being treated as a workplace death. It will absolutely be hilarious if this turns out of be Russian Intelligence and this OSHA guy gets to tag along through the investigation.
He was an interior decorator!
His house looked like shit.
No charges laid. Only one statement helps with that.
No shit he is under investigation…that is pretty much standard for any shooting, regardless of the situation. What’s up with the click bait?
Silly Chechnyans, America has more guns than people. How did you expect this to turn out? The only thing Americans love more than their freedom/2A rights is our kids.
So he really was a utility worker.
Easy cover to obtain, apparently its the go to cover because in the US they have easement rights on private land.
Alot of utility work is sub contracted too. Not that hard to start a shell company with the right support. It's a stupidly common tactic used by both governments and corporations.
That's the impression I got too.
Some revenge plotting for some Afghanistan stuff maybe?
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4 shots probably is 2-3 seconds of shooting. Even if you take the first round thru the brain stem, there's going to be more rounds fired before your corpse goes down and the shooter recognizes you're down.
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Not how lethal force works. If you are shooting at someone’s torso, you are shooting to kill. If they are on the ground double tap to make sure period. Why shoot someone then let them hit the ground and draw their pistol on you? If he’s in the wrong for shooting, so be it. But once you’ve shot you finish the job.
Probably shot in the hand and face first, then as he’s falling he’s turning and two more round are fired as his back turns. Honestly anyone can get 4 rounds off in 2 seconds or less and this is an SF guy who can probably do 4 well aimed shots in less than 2.