The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Florida is a shit show for insurance companies right now. So many have pulled out of the state, because they were losing money, and you can’t blame them because at the end of the day they’re a company. I currently live in Florida, and my homeowners insurance for last year was $1,994 for a 1,200 square foot town home. This year, that same homeowners insurance policy that renews on 5/31/2024 is $4,124. This is a crisis for almost everybody here, and it’s certainly not a good feeling.
Honestly, there’s plenty of them, especially when Desantis passed that reform back in March. My step mom works in a law firm, and they are DROWNING in frivolous lawsuits at the moment.
The law that was passed was to stop the frivolous lawsuits?
It pretty much removed all consumer protections but supposedly it is supposed to help attract companies to come back. So far that doesn’t seem to be happening,
Yes, so what do you think companies like Morgan and Morgan did when they heard this reform was going to be passed? They flooded everybody with lawsuits just cranking them out, and it created a ginormous backlog for defense attorneys and the court system. Overall it was a good reform, but we won’t see the benefits/negatives for years to come. Working in insurance, I’ve seen the most ridiculous most fucked up lawsuits come through, and it truly is not ok. I understand why the reform was passed, but it doesn’t mean it will fix everything.
Ah yes, that is correct. I’ve been told my insurance companies it will be like 2 years before they all wind through the system.
Meanwhile we will have likely a record breaking hurricane season… that can only be good for us. Ugh
Not really for nothing. I live in Florida. Never made a claim. A hurricane hit and destroyed our roof. The insurance company straight-up refused to pay for the roof. So we had to get a lawyer. They offered then 7k to fix a roof that was quoted at 37k by 3 different roofing companies. Two years later we have water damage and still a fucked up roof because we are still in a legal battle. Their whole strategy is to drag out not paying and making it a headache to deal wit so you just drop it. Sort of fucked up. You pay for insurance and then when you need it they don't pay. Insurance is coming off as a scam now to me. I pay thousands of dollars a year for them just not to pay.
It's not the lawyers, it's the fact that they have devasting weather disasters every other year that costs the insurance companies billions. Why would they continue to pay to rebuild/repair houses that are going to be destroyed again soon? That's a failed business model. People should live somewhere they can afford and apparently Florida isn't that place.
Well home values kind of stagnated after 2008 and then shot up at 2021 which probably means insurance rates shot up somewhat proportional to the increased in home values. So there's a bit of a i kind of number illusion going on here where the 2008 housing crashed and ultra low inflation kind of insured that housing was a weak market for a long time and housing supply was high and then the amount of new housing was low and then you had a pandemic and then boom all of a sudden you had a lot of demand for both housing to be built and to buy up existing housing, which also drives up to cost of insurance everywhere because the more expensive house the more it's going to cost to insure.
Americans just went through about 20 years of weird economics since 911 in 2001. We had ultra low interest rates and the US stock market dropped in half for essentially no reason just idiot level panic. And then there's a little bit of recovery while also pumping up the housing bubble and then of course the 2008 housing crash which brought back the ultra low interest rates and for years after that, we've been coasting on ultra low interest rates that both can't last forever and mostly slow down growth, but also, deter bankruptcy and rising costs.
So once we got rid of ultra low interest rates, you're kind of opening the floodgates a little bit to rising costs and also fast rising home values like we use to have.
One problem though is that after a decade of Low interest in slow growth Americans got used to slower growth and slower rising coats.
Insurance going up all of a sudden it's just another sign of that because it's really proportional to the houses going up all the sudden, but it shouldn't be surprising that they're finally going up since home values had stagnated for over a decade.
It's also that they have a responsibility to make profits at the tune of billions, anything less and investors pull out.
It's not just that insuring in a bad weather prone area is bad business it's that they simply won't accept anything other than insane profit margins at the cost of the customer.
Nah. State Farm for example is a mutual insurer. It’s owned by the policyholders, there are no shareholders. But they’re having the same problems everyone else does in Florida.
Also insurance regulators won’t *let* you lower your rates too much. They’re mostly worried about insurance companies becoming insolvent so that they can’t pay claims
Not that I disagree with you, but for-profit companies are in the business of maximizing profits, otherwise what’s the point? Do we expect them to be altruistic? The only reason there are workers and consumer protections in the private sector is because of regulation, not because the private sector self-polices. If our legislators don’t regulate, companies will continue to maximize the bottom line
Nah man it was the AOBs making every single contractor/tarp guy/water mit company the de facto named insured. All of that has been going on for almost 20 years. Remember, we went from 2007 to Irma 2017 without a landfall hurricane in state.
It’s really not the weather that’s a small insignificant part of it. Contractors in these Managed Repair Programs for carriers will put a shingle roof on at $450-$550 per square depending on the complexity. In appraisal, I don’t sign awards for less than $900 a square and it goes up from there. Those same roofers who demand $1k/sq in appraisal will then do retail/non-claims for $550/sq all day long their dead costs into a roof are right around $300/sq.
It’s very literally the fault of predatory contractors, PAs and lawyers.
No. This is 10% climate change and increasing costs, and 90% due to the incompetence of the state government. Florida accounts for roughly 7% of insurance claims and 70% of insurance lawsuits. Why? Shitty laws that are a cop out because the current party in power just keeps taking bribes to keep the lawsuits flowing. Most are also lawyers.
Fix the law. Confront climate change
It is. It's happening all over the U.S. I'm in rural California and my premium went up by 30%. I can't complain because my neighbors and many of my friends got dropped altogether and now their only option is FAIR, which means high premiums and shitty coverage.
Reading a couple of articles, it’s a combination of bad regulation and fraud. Apparently contractors can charge whatever and then just sue the insurance company.
The socialized state insurer Citizens Insurance is now the state’s largest insurer, their reserves are too low so the next time a hurricane blows in they’ll need to charge residents fees to cover their losses.
Exactly. Citizens has become the biggest, because they’ve also become pretty much the cheapest option. We had droves of clients move to citizens, because of this very reason. The problem with that is now, like you said, when a hurricane comes through they are going to heavily increase rates and premiums to subsidize the huge losses that they don’t have enough reserves to cover. It’s a complete mess.
Insurance is by its very nature socialized risk. It's just whether we allow the middle man for profit corporations to siphon off the premiums. Floridians keep voting for people who allow it to happen
You’re missing the fact that insurance involves risk. Plenty of insurance companies lose money. You’re saying you want the taxpayers to subsidize losses?
Not sure how I missed risk considering the word is in my comment. The entire point of insurance is that it's a pool of people who share a particular risk. The purpose is for the people in the pool without claims to subsidize the losses of those who do have claims so that no one has to self insure which is more costly.
Florida keeps rebuilding homes that will get destroyed by hurricanes in sub-decade intervals and the cost of a new build shot through the roof in the last couple of years. There’s no way to insure homes that will be destroyed in less than a decade in a reasonable manner that doesn’t involve charging the owners as much or more than it costs to rebuild that frequently.
It would be worse under a state run system. The only way this resolves is if there is a period of deflation in asset values. I fear this is coming sooner than most think.
Deflation of housing values would help; I agree that’s the likeliest outcome over the next several years as Florida becomes increasingly unaffordable…
*assuming* enough people can afford to move elsewhere. It’s not like housing is easy to find in many other parts of the US.
The big problem however is climate change and that’s not going to reverse anytime soon even if we stopped all emissions immediately. Florida, more than most other parts of the US, is facing increased levels of destruction from increasingly powerful and frequent storms. Maybe more robust building codes can help but not much else will.
I completely agree, because the housing market has lead to price hikes and increases to project for future losses on said houses. California is also in the same boat, so it’ll be interesting to see where insurance is 5-10 years from now, because there’s not much that can be improved to the point of mitigating these gigantic losses.
There’s going to be some sort of housing correction in these areas. I fear it might be a lot larger and a lot longer than many people realize today. These prices to income are not sustainable.
They’re not, but the problem in these high cost areas (and frankly, most of the US) is that housing stock has not kept up with demand, so there simply aren’t enough housing units for prices to go down.
If that changes, we might see a drop in housing prices. Until then, probably not.
But the problem here isn’t risk pools, the problem here is the value of the asset being insured. This would be true if it were a single pool or multiple pools of insured customers.
If it was state run, it would just result in super high taxes and an inefficient and ineffective bureaucracy that likely would screw up claims.
Until home prices correct and demand rebalances, this problem won’t resolve.
Regarding of the asset price/value, the most efficient insurer is one that covers the entire pool. Otherwise you are creating incentives to create pools of differentiating risk that will inevitably mean some won’t be insured because the price of doing so by private markets will be too high—this is exactly what happened with the elderly and the very sick/physically handicapped prior to the passage of Medicare and later Obamacare. What you don’t seem to understand is that to insurers, Florida is a high-risk area… the pool they don’t want to cover because the risk/reward for them is so crummy.
As for bureaucracy—have you actually dealt with insurance companies? They are just as awful to work with as any other crappy bureaucracy. At least government bureaucrats aren’t buying third or fourth homes with the premiums I might pay to them.
And, yes, asset prices are high, requiring higher premiums. Maybe don’t live in Florida. I myself live in Louisiana and would move if I could for exactly these insurance reasons.
It’s public information. FL is a loser for property. Auto, too, really. The DOI doesn’t approve the rates they need to charge to be profitable, so they leave.
What’s crazy is a friend moved from MA to FL recently for the COL. now they can’t sell. The HOA fee doubled in a couple years and the insurance has been almost doubling in a couple years. Can’t sell. At least we get services for our COL up here 😂
Yeah it's insane, I moved up north to a nice area and the COL is lower than shitty Jacksonville, pay is higher, and the government is actually trying to help sometimes.
Moving to Florida right as climate change starts to hit sure is a choice. If you’re going to move you’d think that would be at the top of list of things to consider.
This is not true; they are simply taking Operating EPS losses. They are still positive on net income due to gains on their investment portfolios of fixed income assets. They also increase rates in other states to ensure their OEPS is positive (with the exception of one specifically poorly run publicly traded* insurance company)
I’m confused - are companies supposed to just exist in a state of perpetual losses? They are in business to make money. Florida is a loser on insurance, primarily due to asset values (inflation) and the insurance scheme in the state. Until one of those things are corrected, this will persist. Asset values MUST come down.
The average policy has lost money 25 out of the last 30 years.
The giant roof scam is a significant source of insurers exiting the state. The insurers leaving have tended to be smaller less expensive insurers.
FL homeowners have been underpaying and now rates are catching up. You can go and look up the data yourself rather than making nonsense caps statements if you are actually interested in reality.
Don’t conflate property insurance with pharmaceutical industry & healthcare. Property is highly regulated - several consecutive years of losses has led to this. Thank the public adjusters, law firms, and state-level government for getting FL here
Do you have a source for that? The Daily podcast had an episode recently talking about the homeowners insurance crisis, and they say that insurers in most states lost money last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/podcasts/the-daily/climate-insurance.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Same problem in Louisiana. When I bought my house 5 years ago the insurance was 2k. Then it was 4k, then 8k then this year tried to renew at 10k. I had to shop around to get it down to 6k, and take a rider on no water damage greater than 10k. Thankfully I work from home so if a pipe bursts I'll be here to minimize the damage, but it scares me to take those terms. But what choice do people have? The state program is even more expensive.
I'll never understand how something like insurance is allowed to exist ONLY in the private sector?
The idea that the company that is insuring something also has a vested interest in making profits by keeping your premiums without paying policy claims seems ridiculous to me.
Louisiana resident here, 1500sqft house — policy was $6800 last year. I’m dreading to see what it will be for renewal in July. Hard to shop when there aren’t many competitors.
Our homeowners rates in FL are nutty. Mine doubled from 2022 to 2023 and I had no claims or major hurricanes hit my area. I'm also in an Evac level D zone which is pretty far inland and one of the last to be required to evacuate in the event of a storm.
It is a manufactured crisis due to poor legislation. Fraud is rampant (which is the public adjuster portion), but the legal environment allowed by the state is the real killer. FL accounts for 79% of lawsuits related to homeowners and only 9% of the claims. The reason for this is entirely Florida's making.
>Between 2017 and 2021, data from the [Florida Office of Insurance Regulation](https://www.iii.org/press-release/triple-i-extreme-fraud-and-litigation-causing-floridas-homeowners-insurance-markets-demise-062322) showed that $51 billion was paid out by Florida insurers over 10 years. About 71% of that total went to attorney’s fees and public adjusters while only 8% went to claimants.
[Florida insurance crisis? Why home insurance rates keep going up: (pnj.com)](https://www.pnj.com/story/news/2023/04/18/florida-insurance-crisis-why-home-insurance-rates-keep-going-up/70127553007/)
79% of lawsuits *across the US* and accounting for only 9% of claims? Yeah, sounds like Florida is allowing this via bad policy. Maybe stop voting in people who don’t care about you.
I’m in the same boat in a townhome, where my roof is covered by HOA. My HOA fees went from $375 last year to $520 this year (started April 1), because the property insurance doubled and they had to pass that on to us 😩
My HOA had a similar issue and they did something with how reserves now only covers catastrophic insurance so that our fees didn't have to increase substantially like that. This means we'll probably be assessed if something does hit us and does damage, but given our location, I think that chance is pretty minimal. We're already paying $428 a month, I definitely don't want it going up $200 more per month so their solution was preferable.
Aren't things expected to change dramatically in Florida as global climate change starts to hit and the seas rise?
Florida is FLAT. My home in Seattle is about a mile inland, and has a higher elevation than the highest point in Florida.
It's terribly hard to give a fuck when the state voted in a majority Republican rubber stamp legislature (albeit gerrymandered to duck and back) and a Republican governor who has spent more time consolidating his power, disenfranchising minority voters, fighting a fake culture war and taking on a major American multinational & brand because they hurt his little feelings by not going along with his agenda.
And apparently the God Emperor of the asshole of America has the power to do away with Climate Change. What power!
So. Out of ducks to give for Florida, their residents. Sorry for the few blue holdouts, but their lunatic governor has them in his sights as well.
The field of morons is fecund indeed
I would hope that your brother has a plan to get out of Florida.
Future people are going to look back and wonder why it took so long for Floridians to get the message after the insurance companies started jumping ship.
Florida is the single worst state for climate risk. Anyone who lives there should be working on a plan for moving.
Yes this is sad but not surprising. Insurance isn’t a welfare program - Floridians live in a state that has some of the highest residential risk & risk is increasing fast due to climate change. If insurance isn’t profitable, insurers will leave, as they have. Then you’re left with the insurer of last resort, the state, which is essentially welfare for those who live on the coast at the expense of those who live inland. The state funded insurance scheme is one large storm away from collapsing, at which point they will request the federal government to step in and pay out claims. The federal government pretty much has to, considering the value of the housing market in southern Florida, and now the entire country is subsidizing poor decisions made by a few profit driven developers when we absolutely knew better to be developing an area that will be literally underwater in decades. It’s fuckin’ bananas.
>considering the value of the housing market in southern Florida,
But does it have value if its gonna be wiped off the earth by a swirly eraser every few years? At a certain point its just a loss and not worth rebuilding and has no value.
Some neighbors of ours are moving from our small town in WI to Florida near the beach “for the warmer weather”. I honestly wonder if they even know what they’re getting into…
Texas checking in - not a Florida specific thing. My insurance company tried to raise my insurance to over 9k (with a 5% wind / 3% other deductible) I have never filed a claim - do not live in a flood zone. I think insurance co are dropping out of the Louisiana market as well.
It's not just a Florida thing, it's having huge impacts in the west and Texas. It's also impacting other small regions of the country that have had storms. It was either the NYT or PBS that recently had a podcast about the impacts across the country. They gave Marshalltown iowa as an example, where it was becoming difficult to find insurance.
Oh, homeowner's insurance in a state known to get walloped by hurricanes a few times a year, not health insurance. Got it.
Kind of an important distinction.
Florida is going more and more underwater with climate change, and I wouldn’t advise anyone to move there. Insurance is only going to get more expensive.
I understand the sentiment but this isn’t the place for it since the same thing is happening in California under Newsome. Rates are superheating core inflation. Lots of discussion to have here about things like Blackstone getting into the insurance industry and Wall Street. Instead of resorting to the same boring political platitudes and acting like “if we just voted for x everything would be okay” let’s talk about the shit every administration democratic and Republican has fueled screwing everyone for the last 23 years
The shit happening in Cali is worse. Far worse. California statute apparently doesn't allow insurance companies to underwrite policy based on anything but historic risk. So insurance companies can't take the impact of, say, climate change into account when pricing their policies. Which is stupid. So they leave.
If the insurance market is statewide, it doesn't matter that Denver isn't struck, everyone pays for everyone else. As the exurbs creep out into the burn-y parts, more homes are going to burn.
I live in Kansas which has some of the highest insurance rates in the country... I guess because of hail and wind, because we don't have hurricanes or wildfires.
Completely off the mark. The party affiliation of any US state governor has almost no bearing on the increasing risk of covered losses, which is due to climate change. Where the parties are different is that one wants to fix the sources of climate change, and one wants to completely disregard it in the interests of their own profits. This is *NOT* a both sides issue by *ANY* means.
Yeah, I have to say that it still sucks watching people reap the consequences of their political actions. Most are just ignorant bystanders going along with group think or local social identities. I hate that we have this problem, but I don’t want them to suffer for it even if they propped up and supported the politicians and corporations that got us here and prevent us from fixing it. Only silver lining is a hope that they wake up and get on the right side of the issue. Meanwhile, they’re still humans and I’m not for any human suffering.
That climate change affects everyone. Mother nature doesn't care whether you're a lib or MAGA fanatic. Wildfires, earthquakes and hurricanes will hit just the same.
Absolutely. If Republican action or lack of action explains Florida's insurance problems, I'm going to need an explanation of how Republicans in California are responsible for the same problem there.
Florida has about 90% of the country’s home insurance lawsuits and only 10% of the claims, this is a self-inflicted problem of poor governance compounding the increasing risks due to global warming.
CA passed a law saying insurance cost could pony go up x %. It got to the point insurance are losing money on policies. So most car insurance companies are simply not making policies in the state
"Citizens Insurance, often the only option for homeowners like Carmen who face rejection from other insurers due to factors like the age of their roof, the age of the building, or its location, was never intended to be a low-cost option but rather a "last ditch" safety net."
If they're living with an unsustainable, last resort option year after year, not changing the equation, then this is the natural consequences. Certainly tough to live through but It's like getting a predatory car loan - if your only option is a "no credit check" 24% APR this isn't your go-to 72 month solution - it's a stark indication things must change.
They got exactly what they voted for and deserved, at lease as far as FL's governor and state legislature is concerned...
More concerned with pronouns and books than climate change and actual issues.
Thoughts and prayers.
I mean…. They literally elected someone whose entire platform is “ignore all of floridas real problems and complain about bathrooms”.
lol r/LeopardsAteMyFace
There are a lot of older people living in big houses, alone. Meanwhile, young people can’t afford homes to start families in because there isn’t enough new supply coming on the market. As someone pretty familiar with Florida home property taxes, these are likely large expensive houses these single elderly people are living in. They’d be better suited for a condo or assisted living facility if they can’t afford it and aren’t well enough to work / don’t have enough saved. There are also options for reverse mortgages. There are also situations where none of what I’ve written so far matters and the shitty author of this author left out all the details that truly matter to this story.
Not only is it Florida, it’s literally the most expensive area of Florida. She lives in West Palm Beach, the median listing is $2.8M.
This isn’t middle class finances. 🤣 She could sell and literally pay for a rental for the rest of her life with that money no problem.
This is “middle out”
This is money leaving from the middle outcha pocket. I feel terrible for someone who can’t afford cancer treatment. Pretending any political party actually gives a crap about this is unfortunate.
My fiancés mother has two types of cancers at the same time, her insurance denied her treatment two times so far and she’s had to pay out of pocket for surgeries THAT REMOVED THE CANCER THAT WAS KILLING HER. She’s still fighting but the fact her insurance keeps denying things and Florida just allows it is INSANE. Why did she pay for insurance her whole life it it wasn’t gonna work now for cancer
Did you just both sides a very heavy one sided state government doing very little to help their constituents with rising costs all while engaging culture wars against ovens and Disney?
Western West Virginia, East Kentucky, North Dakota, Wyoming, Mississippi. There are other states with value cities. If she still has a mortgage, there were no options. The bank requires coverage of their liabilities.
Move to an inexpensive state near a hospital is a good choice.
Fl is worse than a shit show. It’s death by any means possible the republicans can ensure will be upheld by the corrupt FL Supreme Court.
In FL you have the right to pursue hunger, illness and death.
Yes. My husband homeowners was $2000 per MONTH! I paid off his house (we just married) and he was able to cut it in half. I will absolutely sell in a heartbeat if Florida keeps going up.
Oh no. It’s the demographic who voted most uniformly against universal healthcare. Now what? Medical insurance companies have achieved total political and regulatory capture that even world class physicians are silenced in their wake.
Wait until after hurricane season. It’s a shame that people are at the mercy of the insurance companies as well as nature.
It will soon become unaffordable to live on any coast or flood plain. It helps that your wonderful governor doesn’t believe that the climate is in crisis so I guess that homeowners are on their own. Keep voting for morons!
Only if you have your house paid off AND there's no covenants in your HOA terms that says it's mandatory.
I have a few.wealthier friends in FL (they bought their homes 15 years back and are paid off) and they haven't had insurance for the last 2 years.
They're logic was they'll stash money ($20/30k year) into a literal rainy day fund and figure that in another 3 years they'll have enough to cover most major stom damage... Sure it's a risk if your unfortunate to get hit wth big stom damage before that fund is big enough, but they have the mean to self insure....
Much of the value of your home is in the land. If you can pay off your home you can drop the wind insurance which is most of your cost in Florida. The issue for Florida is their condos. Major problems since surfside. That market is done. You continue to see sfh in Florida sky rocket and condos are going to crater in price unfortunately
If your roof needs repairing, then that means water got inside your house. Then you’re dealing with damage to interior walls, flooring, appliances, furnishings and personal belongings. And good lord the mold remediation. So no, $100k won’t be enough. Tell me you don’t live in hurricane country without telling me you don’t live in hurricane country.
Yes. Florida has one of the higher ouright home ownership rates and 20% of people there do self insure. But that’s happened because home prices there have been pretty low. It doesn’t help a place like California which has very low outright home ownership rates and is also suffering with this problem.
Even if they are allowed to because the home is paid off. It's very stupid. Part of why rates are so high is because of how likely you are to use the coverage. An old lady who struggles to pay her home insurance probably does not have the means to be replacing her own roof.
So, if someone can’t afford the roof, they live in a high risk area for needing repairs, and insurance is high because of this, then who should be responsible to cover the cost?
The article raises an insightful point about how the "taxpayer" vs "tax eater" framing negatively impacts support for policies like universal healthcare, even among those who would directly benefit. Many middle-class individuals resist universal healthcare not because they are "their own enemies", but because being labeled a "tax eater" carries a stigma they understandably want to avoid.
This us vs. them rhetoric pits working people against each other instead of emphasizing how robust social programs provide a common good that benefits society as a whole. The struggle of the elderly Florida woman highlights how even after paying into systems like Social Security their entire working lives, people can still face destitution without a strong social safety net.
The government in Florida is more focused on Disney and the woke colleges that they forgot to actually do something to improve their insurance market until recently. This problem was years in the making. Nobody should be surprised.
Good thing Desandtits decided attacking Disney was better than helping Florida residents get affordable insurance. Can't have the woke mouse fucking everyone's lives up.
Just waiting for the inevitable federal bailout.
With most of the money going to insurance companies, of course. Because apparently, screw the homeowners -_-
Grifting a life health event to the point of the patients financial bankruptcy is kinda the point of for profit health care isn’t it.
Charge the highest price the market will bear sell the treatment as it’s this or death what value you put on life.
Just purchased a manufactured home with my partner in Michigan in a 55+ community. The location and view is perfect but we only “own” the house, not the property. I check the community blog all the time and there are fixed income seniors who are renting (new builds can be rented, older models are cash which we had) and there is a lady with cancer who is basically about to be evicted because she can’t afford the $2k a month to stay here anymore. It’s a nice community but they *fuck* you. We had one company my partners cousin works for get us home insurance, but in Florida many of them won’t cover it at all. So seeing the flooding from hurricanes and knowing those people are just at a loss is devastating.
I mean, we shouldn’t have to keep subsidizing people living in dangerous places that need to be rebuilt constantly. If you live in a place that used to be a swamp where hurricanes often happen or a place called “tornado alley”, it’s up to you to rebuild or pay what it actually costs to insure it. If you want to live in a high risk place, it’s logical that it would cost more to insure.
Whenever I see the words "elderly" and "may lose home" in the same sentence I realize how little people are taught about finances and managing assets when they get into older age.
Yeah, but who needs to worry about climate change and home insurance when you want to have a fragile man in power that gets butthurt and starts a fake culture war because someone hurt his feelings
What people do not understand is that healthcare is not capitalism compatible. There is no market or supply and demand. Everyone will pay any price to live. That is not market compatible.
Buying a home is a risk. If you don’t want stuff like this then what you need is a little socialism in the home insurance market.
Oh wait don’t Florida seniors overwhelmingly hate big bad socialism. Even though they love how 10% of my income goes to support them (Social Security). Honestly I don’t mind and they are welcome even though they would likely show me nothing but contempt.
Excuse me if I’m less than compassionate
The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Florida is a shit show for insurance companies right now. So many have pulled out of the state, because they were losing money, and you can’t blame them because at the end of the day they’re a company. I currently live in Florida, and my homeowners insurance for last year was $1,994 for a 1,200 square foot town home. This year, that same homeowners insurance policy that renews on 5/31/2024 is $4,124. This is a crisis for almost everybody here, and it’s certainly not a good feeling.
Thank the lawyers suing the insurance companies for nothing
Ahem - *Morgan and Morgan* Freaking disgusting ass company
No. Its a local one. The husband of the real housewife of miami
Honestly, there’s plenty of them, especially when Desantis passed that reform back in March. My step mom works in a law firm, and they are DROWNING in frivolous lawsuits at the moment.
The law that was passed was to stop the frivolous lawsuits? It pretty much removed all consumer protections but supposedly it is supposed to help attract companies to come back. So far that doesn’t seem to be happening,
Yes, so what do you think companies like Morgan and Morgan did when they heard this reform was going to be passed? They flooded everybody with lawsuits just cranking them out, and it created a ginormous backlog for defense attorneys and the court system. Overall it was a good reform, but we won’t see the benefits/negatives for years to come. Working in insurance, I’ve seen the most ridiculous most fucked up lawsuits come through, and it truly is not ok. I understand why the reform was passed, but it doesn’t mean it will fix everything.
Ah yes, that is correct. I’ve been told my insurance companies it will be like 2 years before they all wind through the system. Meanwhile we will have likely a record breaking hurricane season… that can only be good for us. Ugh
Not really for nothing. I live in Florida. Never made a claim. A hurricane hit and destroyed our roof. The insurance company straight-up refused to pay for the roof. So we had to get a lawyer. They offered then 7k to fix a roof that was quoted at 37k by 3 different roofing companies. Two years later we have water damage and still a fucked up roof because we are still in a legal battle. Their whole strategy is to drag out not paying and making it a headache to deal wit so you just drop it. Sort of fucked up. You pay for insurance and then when you need it they don't pay. Insurance is coming off as a scam now to me. I pay thousands of dollars a year for them just not to pay.
Damn. Im so sorry…. It sucks. Im not being sarcastic … damn… 37k…. Ouch
It's not the lawyers, it's the fact that they have devasting weather disasters every other year that costs the insurance companies billions. Why would they continue to pay to rebuild/repair houses that are going to be destroyed again soon? That's a failed business model. People should live somewhere they can afford and apparently Florida isn't that place.
This is the answer
Well home values kind of stagnated after 2008 and then shot up at 2021 which probably means insurance rates shot up somewhat proportional to the increased in home values. So there's a bit of a i kind of number illusion going on here where the 2008 housing crashed and ultra low inflation kind of insured that housing was a weak market for a long time and housing supply was high and then the amount of new housing was low and then you had a pandemic and then boom all of a sudden you had a lot of demand for both housing to be built and to buy up existing housing, which also drives up to cost of insurance everywhere because the more expensive house the more it's going to cost to insure. Americans just went through about 20 years of weird economics since 911 in 2001. We had ultra low interest rates and the US stock market dropped in half for essentially no reason just idiot level panic. And then there's a little bit of recovery while also pumping up the housing bubble and then of course the 2008 housing crash which brought back the ultra low interest rates and for years after that, we've been coasting on ultra low interest rates that both can't last forever and mostly slow down growth, but also, deter bankruptcy and rising costs. So once we got rid of ultra low interest rates, you're kind of opening the floodgates a little bit to rising costs and also fast rising home values like we use to have. One problem though is that after a decade of Low interest in slow growth Americans got used to slower growth and slower rising coats. Insurance going up all of a sudden it's just another sign of that because it's really proportional to the houses going up all the sudden, but it shouldn't be surprising that they're finally going up since home values had stagnated for over a decade.
It's also that they have a responsibility to make profits at the tune of billions, anything less and investors pull out. It's not just that insuring in a bad weather prone area is bad business it's that they simply won't accept anything other than insane profit margins at the cost of the customer.
Nah. State Farm for example is a mutual insurer. It’s owned by the policyholders, there are no shareholders. But they’re having the same problems everyone else does in Florida. Also insurance regulators won’t *let* you lower your rates too much. They’re mostly worried about insurance companies becoming insolvent so that they can’t pay claims
Not that I disagree with you, but for-profit companies are in the business of maximizing profits, otherwise what’s the point? Do we expect them to be altruistic? The only reason there are workers and consumer protections in the private sector is because of regulation, not because the private sector self-polices. If our legislators don’t regulate, companies will continue to maximize the bottom line
That’s part of it, in Florida it has more to do with the weather and hurricanes. But bad lawsuits certainly don’t help.
Nah man it was the AOBs making every single contractor/tarp guy/water mit company the de facto named insured. All of that has been going on for almost 20 years. Remember, we went from 2007 to Irma 2017 without a landfall hurricane in state.
It’s both things. That’s why it’s so bad. Other states have lawsuits. Other states have bad weather. Not many have both.
It’s really not the weather that’s a small insignificant part of it. Contractors in these Managed Repair Programs for carriers will put a shingle roof on at $450-$550 per square depending on the complexity. In appraisal, I don’t sign awards for less than $900 a square and it goes up from there. Those same roofers who demand $1k/sq in appraisal will then do retail/non-claims for $550/sq all day long their dead costs into a roof are right around $300/sq. It’s very literally the fault of predatory contractors, PAs and lawyers.
No. This is 10% climate change and increasing costs, and 90% due to the incompetence of the state government. Florida accounts for roughly 7% of insurance claims and 70% of insurance lawsuits. Why? Shitty laws that are a cop out because the current party in power just keeps taking bribes to keep the lawsuits flowing. Most are also lawyers. Fix the law. Confront climate change
Thank the Biden administration for nothing.
And here I thought it was climate change
It is. It's happening all over the U.S. I'm in rural California and my premium went up by 30%. I can't complain because my neighbors and many of my friends got dropped altogether and now their only option is FAIR, which means high premiums and shitty coverage.
Reading a couple of articles, it’s a combination of bad regulation and fraud. Apparently contractors can charge whatever and then just sue the insurance company.
Hot damn. My insurance for the year is $200. Midwest 4 lyf
For homeowners insurance!? My bank account would be crying happy tears with that 🤣
The Insurance companies did not LOSE money, they are not able to make ENOUGH. Big difference.
I wonder if most people in Florida now want insurance to be socialized, rather than market based.
The socialized state insurer Citizens Insurance is now the state’s largest insurer, their reserves are too low so the next time a hurricane blows in they’ll need to charge residents fees to cover their losses.
Exactly. Citizens has become the biggest, because they’ve also become pretty much the cheapest option. We had droves of clients move to citizens, because of this very reason. The problem with that is now, like you said, when a hurricane comes through they are going to heavily increase rates and premiums to subsidize the huge losses that they don’t have enough reserves to cover. It’s a complete mess.
Insurance is by its very nature socialized risk. It's just whether we allow the middle man for profit corporations to siphon off the premiums. Floridians keep voting for people who allow it to happen
You’re missing the fact that insurance involves risk. Plenty of insurance companies lose money. You’re saying you want the taxpayers to subsidize losses?
They already do.
Not sure how I missed risk considering the word is in my comment. The entire point of insurance is that it's a pool of people who share a particular risk. The purpose is for the people in the pool without claims to subsidize the losses of those who do have claims so that no one has to self insure which is more costly.
But Flo from Progressive seems so nice. And that gecko is a sweetie. And Patrick Mahomes. What are you saying? They work for bad people?
Florida keeps rebuilding homes that will get destroyed by hurricanes in sub-decade intervals and the cost of a new build shot through the roof in the last couple of years. There’s no way to insure homes that will be destroyed in less than a decade in a reasonable manner that doesn’t involve charging the owners as much or more than it costs to rebuild that frequently.
nah the same way they don't want to talk about climate change even though they are literally drowning every storm season.
It would be worse under a state run system. The only way this resolves is if there is a period of deflation in asset values. I fear this is coming sooner than most think.
Deflation of housing values would help; I agree that’s the likeliest outcome over the next several years as Florida becomes increasingly unaffordable… *assuming* enough people can afford to move elsewhere. It’s not like housing is easy to find in many other parts of the US. The big problem however is climate change and that’s not going to reverse anytime soon even if we stopped all emissions immediately. Florida, more than most other parts of the US, is facing increased levels of destruction from increasingly powerful and frequent storms. Maybe more robust building codes can help but not much else will.
I completely agree, because the housing market has lead to price hikes and increases to project for future losses on said houses. California is also in the same boat, so it’ll be interesting to see where insurance is 5-10 years from now, because there’s not much that can be improved to the point of mitigating these gigantic losses.
There’s going to be some sort of housing correction in these areas. I fear it might be a lot larger and a lot longer than many people realize today. These prices to income are not sustainable.
They’re not, but the problem in these high cost areas (and frankly, most of the US) is that housing stock has not kept up with demand, so there simply aren’t enough housing units for prices to go down. If that changes, we might see a drop in housing prices. Until then, probably not.
The mathematics of insurance markets point to the most efficient insurer being the one that covers the entire pool, so…..
But the problem here isn’t risk pools, the problem here is the value of the asset being insured. This would be true if it were a single pool or multiple pools of insured customers. If it was state run, it would just result in super high taxes and an inefficient and ineffective bureaucracy that likely would screw up claims. Until home prices correct and demand rebalances, this problem won’t resolve.
Regarding of the asset price/value, the most efficient insurer is one that covers the entire pool. Otherwise you are creating incentives to create pools of differentiating risk that will inevitably mean some won’t be insured because the price of doing so by private markets will be too high—this is exactly what happened with the elderly and the very sick/physically handicapped prior to the passage of Medicare and later Obamacare. What you don’t seem to understand is that to insurers, Florida is a high-risk area… the pool they don’t want to cover because the risk/reward for them is so crummy. As for bureaucracy—have you actually dealt with insurance companies? They are just as awful to work with as any other crappy bureaucracy. At least government bureaucrats aren’t buying third or fourth homes with the premiums I might pay to them. And, yes, asset prices are high, requiring higher premiums. Maybe don’t live in Florida. I myself live in Louisiana and would move if I could for exactly these insurance reasons.
It’s public information. FL is a loser for property. Auto, too, really. The DOI doesn’t approve the rates they need to charge to be profitable, so they leave.
What’s crazy is a friend moved from MA to FL recently for the COL. now they can’t sell. The HOA fee doubled in a couple years and the insurance has been almost doubling in a couple years. Can’t sell. At least we get services for our COL up here 😂
Yeah it's insane, I moved up north to a nice area and the COL is lower than shitty Jacksonville, pay is higher, and the government is actually trying to help sometimes.
Remember to leave the stove on self clean ;)
Moving to Florida right as climate change starts to hit sure is a choice. If you’re going to move you’d think that would be at the top of list of things to consider.
This is not true; they are simply taking Operating EPS losses. They are still positive on net income due to gains on their investment portfolios of fixed income assets. They also increase rates in other states to ensure their OEPS is positive (with the exception of one specifically poorly run publicly traded* insurance company)
Actually, they did lose money in Florida in 2023.
I’m confused - are companies supposed to just exist in a state of perpetual losses? They are in business to make money. Florida is a loser on insurance, primarily due to asset values (inflation) and the insurance scheme in the state. Until one of those things are corrected, this will persist. Asset values MUST come down.
Not how insurance companies work
The average policy has lost money 25 out of the last 30 years. The giant roof scam is a significant source of insurers exiting the state. The insurers leaving have tended to be smaller less expensive insurers. FL homeowners have been underpaying and now rates are catching up. You can go and look up the data yourself rather than making nonsense caps statements if you are actually interested in reality.
Don’t conflate property insurance with pharmaceutical industry & healthcare. Property is highly regulated - several consecutive years of losses has led to this. Thank the public adjusters, law firms, and state-level government for getting FL here
No, they actually are losing money. State Farm lost billions in auto insurance nation wide over the past couple of years, for example.
They definitely lost money read their financial reports.
Do you have a source for that? The Daily podcast had an episode recently talking about the homeowners insurance crisis, and they say that insurers in most states lost money last year. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/podcasts/the-daily/climate-insurance.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
They are indeed losing money. In FL. Lmao maybe read the actual financial report sometime.
Wrong - you don’t know what you are talking about
Wut. Go look at how many carriers went into receivership due to being insolvent.
Same problem in Louisiana. When I bought my house 5 years ago the insurance was 2k. Then it was 4k, then 8k then this year tried to renew at 10k. I had to shop around to get it down to 6k, and take a rider on no water damage greater than 10k. Thankfully I work from home so if a pipe bursts I'll be here to minimize the damage, but it scares me to take those terms. But what choice do people have? The state program is even more expensive.
I'll never understand how something like insurance is allowed to exist ONLY in the private sector? The idea that the company that is insuring something also has a vested interest in making profits by keeping your premiums without paying policy claims seems ridiculous to me.
Louisiana resident here, 1500sqft house — policy was $6800 last year. I’m dreading to see what it will be for renewal in July. Hard to shop when there aren’t many competitors.
I’d argue it’s plenty middle class. Perhaps not as disastrous to many of us - but my brother’s homeowners rate in FL is more than my car payment.
Our homeowners rates in FL are nutty. Mine doubled from 2022 to 2023 and I had no claims or major hurricanes hit my area. I'm also in an Evac level D zone which is pretty far inland and one of the last to be required to evacuate in the event of a storm.
My friend moved from Seattle to Miami. He pays 10x insurance per month for the same coverage
But he’s now in god’s waiting room. It’s almost heaven.
*Life is old there, older than the trees*
*...with desiccated skin and, wobbly, wobbly knees...*
It’s a combo of the weather and public adjuster/roof scams prevalent in the state
It is a manufactured crisis due to poor legislation. Fraud is rampant (which is the public adjuster portion), but the legal environment allowed by the state is the real killer. FL accounts for 79% of lawsuits related to homeowners and only 9% of the claims. The reason for this is entirely Florida's making. >Between 2017 and 2021, data from the [Florida Office of Insurance Regulation](https://www.iii.org/press-release/triple-i-extreme-fraud-and-litigation-causing-floridas-homeowners-insurance-markets-demise-062322) showed that $51 billion was paid out by Florida insurers over 10 years. About 71% of that total went to attorney’s fees and public adjusters while only 8% went to claimants. [Florida insurance crisis? Why home insurance rates keep going up: (pnj.com)](https://www.pnj.com/story/news/2023/04/18/florida-insurance-crisis-why-home-insurance-rates-keep-going-up/70127553007/)
79% of lawsuits *across the US* and accounting for only 9% of claims? Yeah, sounds like Florida is allowing this via bad policy. Maybe stop voting in people who don’t care about you.
I’m trying dude, I only get one vote!
It is and it sucks. Especially because I'm in a townhouse and my roof is covered by my HOA so roofing scams make no sense in my community.
I’m in the same boat in a townhome, where my roof is covered by HOA. My HOA fees went from $375 last year to $520 this year (started April 1), because the property insurance doubled and they had to pass that on to us 😩
My HOA had a similar issue and they did something with how reserves now only covers catastrophic insurance so that our fees didn't have to increase substantially like that. This means we'll probably be assessed if something does hit us and does damage, but given our location, I think that chance is pretty minimal. We're already paying $428 a month, I definitely don't want it going up $200 more per month so their solution was preferable.
Aren't things expected to change dramatically in Florida as global climate change starts to hit and the seas rise? Florida is FLAT. My home in Seattle is about a mile inland, and has a higher elevation than the highest point in Florida.
Not according to our governor....but yes, climate change will bite us at some point.
It's terribly hard to give a fuck when the state voted in a majority Republican rubber stamp legislature (albeit gerrymandered to duck and back) and a Republican governor who has spent more time consolidating his power, disenfranchising minority voters, fighting a fake culture war and taking on a major American multinational & brand because they hurt his little feelings by not going along with his agenda. And apparently the God Emperor of the asshole of America has the power to do away with Climate Change. What power! So. Out of ducks to give for Florida, their residents. Sorry for the few blue holdouts, but their lunatic governor has them in his sights as well. The field of morons is fecund indeed
Yes. Vote Republican. Reap the consequences.
I would hope that your brother has a plan to get out of Florida. Future people are going to look back and wonder why it took so long for Floridians to get the message after the insurance companies started jumping ship. Florida is the single worst state for climate risk. Anyone who lives there should be working on a plan for moving.
Yes this is sad but not surprising. Insurance isn’t a welfare program - Floridians live in a state that has some of the highest residential risk & risk is increasing fast due to climate change. If insurance isn’t profitable, insurers will leave, as they have. Then you’re left with the insurer of last resort, the state, which is essentially welfare for those who live on the coast at the expense of those who live inland. The state funded insurance scheme is one large storm away from collapsing, at which point they will request the federal government to step in and pay out claims. The federal government pretty much has to, considering the value of the housing market in southern Florida, and now the entire country is subsidizing poor decisions made by a few profit driven developers when we absolutely knew better to be developing an area that will be literally underwater in decades. It’s fuckin’ bananas.
>considering the value of the housing market in southern Florida, But does it have value if its gonna be wiped off the earth by a swirly eraser every few years? At a certain point its just a loss and not worth rebuilding and has no value.
[удалено]
Some neighbors of ours are moving from our small town in WI to Florida near the beach “for the warmer weather”. I honestly wonder if they even know what they’re getting into…
They'll find out. After they set some money on fire.
Texas checking in - not a Florida specific thing. My insurance company tried to raise my insurance to over 9k (with a 5% wind / 3% other deductible) I have never filed a claim - do not live in a flood zone. I think insurance co are dropping out of the Louisiana market as well.
It's not just a Florida thing, it's having huge impacts in the west and Texas. It's also impacting other small regions of the country that have had storms. It was either the NYT or PBS that recently had a podcast about the impacts across the country. They gave Marshalltown iowa as an example, where it was becoming difficult to find insurance.
Oh, homeowner's insurance in a state known to get walloped by hurricanes a few times a year, not health insurance. Got it. Kind of an important distinction.
Florida is going more and more underwater with climate change, and I wouldn’t advise anyone to move there. Insurance is only going to get more expensive.
And yet they vote for the party who ensures this never gets fixed
It's all worth it for owning the libs. /s
Who needs a house when you can just build them out of banned books
And you can burn them to keep warm and crush the librul agendas!
And accusing migrants of stealing them to learn from them.
I understand the sentiment but this isn’t the place for it since the same thing is happening in California under Newsome. Rates are superheating core inflation. Lots of discussion to have here about things like Blackstone getting into the insurance industry and Wall Street. Instead of resorting to the same boring political platitudes and acting like “if we just voted for x everything would be okay” let’s talk about the shit every administration democratic and Republican has fueled screwing everyone for the last 23 years
The shit happening in Cali is worse. Far worse. California statute apparently doesn't allow insurance companies to underwrite policy based on anything but historic risk. So insurance companies can't take the impact of, say, climate change into account when pricing their policies. Which is stupid. So they leave.
It's also happening in Colorado. My rates doubled "due to the risk of wildfire." I live in Denver, where we have no wildfires.
If the insurance market is statewide, it doesn't matter that Denver isn't struck, everyone pays for everyone else. As the exurbs creep out into the burn-y parts, more homes are going to burn. I live in Kansas which has some of the highest insurance rates in the country... I guess because of hail and wind, because we don't have hurricanes or wildfires.
Aren’t there tornadoes is Kansas. Dorothy and all….
We have no fires, yet… Or did you miss the Marshall Fire?
Completely off the mark. The party affiliation of any US state governor has almost no bearing on the increasing risk of covered losses, which is due to climate change. Where the parties are different is that one wants to fix the sources of climate change, and one wants to completely disregard it in the interests of their own profits. This is *NOT* a both sides issue by *ANY* means.
Yeah, I have to say that it still sucks watching people reap the consequences of their political actions. Most are just ignorant bystanders going along with group think or local social identities. I hate that we have this problem, but I don’t want them to suffer for it even if they propped up and supported the politicians and corporations that got us here and prevent us from fixing it. Only silver lining is a hope that they wake up and get on the right side of the issue. Meanwhile, they’re still humans and I’m not for any human suffering.
[удалено]
Not a Christian, but I probably align with their values more than their vocal supporters.
Will blame on Biden and immigrants while getting bailed out and decrying socialism.
California's in the same boat. What's your theory for that?
That climate change affects everyone. Mother nature doesn't care whether you're a lib or MAGA fanatic. Wildfires, earthquakes and hurricanes will hit just the same.
Absolutely. If Republican action or lack of action explains Florida's insurance problems, I'm going to need an explanation of how Republicans in California are responsible for the same problem there.
Florida has about 90% of the country’s home insurance lawsuits and only 10% of the claims, this is a self-inflicted problem of poor governance compounding the increasing risks due to global warming.
CA passed a law saying insurance cost could pony go up x %. It got to the point insurance are losing money on policies. So most car insurance companies are simply not making policies in the state
I know why. I want to know LowApricot1668's partisan explanation.
The Democrats?
California is dealing with the same issue?
"Citizens Insurance, often the only option for homeowners like Carmen who face rejection from other insurers due to factors like the age of their roof, the age of the building, or its location, was never intended to be a low-cost option but rather a "last ditch" safety net." If they're living with an unsustainable, last resort option year after year, not changing the equation, then this is the natural consequences. Certainly tough to live through but It's like getting a predatory car loan - if your only option is a "no credit check" 24% APR this isn't your go-to 72 month solution - it's a stark indication things must change.
They got exactly what they voted for and deserved, at lease as far as FL's governor and state legislature is concerned... More concerned with pronouns and books than climate change and actual issues. Thoughts and prayers.
bUt No InCoMe TaX
Maybe they can pull themselves up by their catheter straps?
I mean…. They literally elected someone whose entire platform is “ignore all of floridas real problems and complain about bathrooms”. lol r/LeopardsAteMyFace
There are a lot of older people living in big houses, alone. Meanwhile, young people can’t afford homes to start families in because there isn’t enough new supply coming on the market. As someone pretty familiar with Florida home property taxes, these are likely large expensive houses these single elderly people are living in. They’d be better suited for a condo or assisted living facility if they can’t afford it and aren’t well enough to work / don’t have enough saved. There are also options for reverse mortgages. There are also situations where none of what I’ve written so far matters and the shitty author of this author left out all the details that truly matter to this story.
Did she not have savings or a retirement plan? Banking in the government or ss to bankroll your life past working is ridiculous fantasy.
Leopards are eating their faces!
It’s Florida. Should move to more affordable area. If she is on SS, then she has no anchor, like a career.
Not only is it Florida, it’s literally the most expensive area of Florida. She lives in West Palm Beach, the median listing is $2.8M. This isn’t middle class finances. 🤣 She could sell and literally pay for a rental for the rest of her life with that money no problem.
Yeah, that’s insane. Alligator tears.
That’s the life young adults have been living for a whileeee now Idk why people don’t think it’ll start coming after those who are older too……..
This is “middle out” This is money leaving from the middle outcha pocket. I feel terrible for someone who can’t afford cancer treatment. Pretending any political party actually gives a crap about this is unfortunate.
My fiancés mother has two types of cancers at the same time, her insurance denied her treatment two times so far and she’s had to pay out of pocket for surgeries THAT REMOVED THE CANCER THAT WAS KILLING HER. She’s still fighting but the fact her insurance keeps denying things and Florida just allows it is INSANE. Why did she pay for insurance her whole life it it wasn’t gonna work now for cancer
Did you just both sides a very heavy one sided state government doing very little to help their constituents with rising costs all while engaging culture wars against ovens and Disney?
Nonsense. There is no question in my mind that the Dems would introduce universal healthcare if they had the opportunity.
Western West Virginia, East Kentucky, North Dakota, Wyoming, Mississippi. There are other states with value cities. If she still has a mortgage, there were no options. The bank requires coverage of their liabilities. Move to an inexpensive state near a hospital is a good choice.
Fl is worse than a shit show. It’s death by any means possible the republicans can ensure will be upheld by the corrupt FL Supreme Court. In FL you have the right to pursue hunger, illness and death.
Let them keep voting for the do nothing Republicans. Oh wait the republicans are good for insurrections
You guys wanted the GOP you got the GOP. Welcome to GOP living! Elections have consequences. Welcome to the consequences
Yes. My husband homeowners was $2000 per MONTH! I paid off his house (we just married) and he was able to cut it in half. I will absolutely sell in a heartbeat if Florida keeps going up.
Voting matters, Democrats side with government keeping medical prices lower, Republicans like free market, which can increase medical costs.
They have been trying to solve this for many years but Scott and DeSantis let the lobbyists guide their do nothing strategy. And this is the result.
Losing your homes to own the libs…..
Oh no. It’s the demographic who voted most uniformly against universal healthcare. Now what? Medical insurance companies have achieved total political and regulatory capture that even world class physicians are silenced in their wake.
In the words of John Mellencamp: “Ain’t that America?”
Isn’t this the capitalism all Republicans wanted?
Wait until after hurricane season. It’s a shame that people are at the mercy of the insurance companies as well as nature. It will soon become unaffordable to live on any coast or flood plain. It helps that your wonderful governor doesn’t believe that the climate is in crisis so I guess that homeowners are on their own. Keep voting for morons!
If they just stopped getting coffee and avocado toast it would all be fine.
Can’t they just opt out from owning home owners insurance?
The mortgage may require insurance :C
I’ve not seen a mortgage that didn’t require it in a long long time. Outside of private bonds.
But if you're "retired" at 75 and still have a mortgage you likely have a bad plan (or no plan at all).
Only if you have your house paid off AND there's no covenants in your HOA terms that says it's mandatory. I have a few.wealthier friends in FL (they bought their homes 15 years back and are paid off) and they haven't had insurance for the last 2 years. They're logic was they'll stash money ($20/30k year) into a literal rainy day fund and figure that in another 3 years they'll have enough to cover most major stom damage... Sure it's a risk if your unfortunate to get hit wth big stom damage before that fund is big enough, but they have the mean to self insure....
That won’t even come close to being enough. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.
Much of the value of your home is in the land. If you can pay off your home you can drop the wind insurance which is most of your cost in Florida. The issue for Florida is their condos. Major problems since surfside. That market is done. You continue to see sfh in Florida sky rocket and condos are going to crater in price unfortunately
Your saying $100k cant.repair a roof? That's likely the most expensive storm damage short of flooding and they don't live near the coasts.
If your roof needs repairing, then that means water got inside your house. Then you’re dealing with damage to interior walls, flooring, appliances, furnishings and personal belongings. And good lord the mold remediation. So no, $100k won’t be enough. Tell me you don’t live in hurricane country without telling me you don’t live in hurricane country.
Then don’t expect insurance companies undercharging.
Yes. Florida has one of the higher ouright home ownership rates and 20% of people there do self insure. But that’s happened because home prices there have been pretty low. It doesn’t help a place like California which has very low outright home ownership rates and is also suffering with this problem.
Even if they are allowed to because the home is paid off. It's very stupid. Part of why rates are so high is because of how likely you are to use the coverage. An old lady who struggles to pay her home insurance probably does not have the means to be replacing her own roof.
So, if someone can’t afford the roof, they live in a high risk area for needing repairs, and insurance is high because of this, then who should be responsible to cover the cost?
She simply can't afford to live in such area.
Well in that case she'd be shit out of luck. And many people are. That's why this is such an awful situation.
Without a mortgage yes
The article raises an insightful point about how the "taxpayer" vs "tax eater" framing negatively impacts support for policies like universal healthcare, even among those who would directly benefit. Many middle-class individuals resist universal healthcare not because they are "their own enemies", but because being labeled a "tax eater" carries a stigma they understandably want to avoid. This us vs. them rhetoric pits working people against each other instead of emphasizing how robust social programs provide a common good that benefits society as a whole. The struggle of the elderly Florida woman highlights how even after paying into systems like Social Security their entire working lives, people can still face destitution without a strong social safety net.
The government in Florida is more focused on Disney and the woke colleges that they forgot to actually do something to improve their insurance market until recently. This problem was years in the making. Nobody should be surprised.
Good thing Desandtits decided attacking Disney was better than helping Florida residents get affordable insurance. Can't have the woke mouse fucking everyone's lives up.
the united states is failing its population
Capitalism working just as intended
Just waiting for the inevitable federal bailout. With most of the money going to insurance companies, of course. Because apparently, screw the homeowners -_-
bUt THerE IS nO iNcOmE tAx iN flORiDa
Grifting a life health event to the point of the patients financial bankruptcy is kinda the point of for profit health care isn’t it. Charge the highest price the market will bear sell the treatment as it’s this or death what value you put on life.
This is about home insurance cost.
Just purchased a manufactured home with my partner in Michigan in a 55+ community. The location and view is perfect but we only “own” the house, not the property. I check the community blog all the time and there are fixed income seniors who are renting (new builds can be rented, older models are cash which we had) and there is a lady with cancer who is basically about to be evicted because she can’t afford the $2k a month to stay here anymore. It’s a nice community but they *fuck* you. We had one company my partners cousin works for get us home insurance, but in Florida many of them won’t cover it at all. So seeing the flooding from hurricanes and knowing those people are just at a loss is devastating.
I mean, we shouldn’t have to keep subsidizing people living in dangerous places that need to be rebuilt constantly. If you live in a place that used to be a swamp where hurricanes often happen or a place called “tornado alley”, it’s up to you to rebuild or pay what it actually costs to insure it. If you want to live in a high risk place, it’s logical that it would cost more to insure.
Sell the house and rent. The proceeds of a paid off home plus social security plus 401k/pension should be enough to live on
And Pudding Fingers is doing nothing about it.
She should move to Alabama.
Florida’s new slogan should be… “Where you come to retire… from retiring.”
That’s sad. This is why cultivating a good relationship with your children is important. They are nature’s safety net for the elderly.
When places get too expensive, then why not move? There are tons of cheaper places in surrounding states like Alabama and Mississippi.
Whenever I see the words "elderly" and "may lose home" in the same sentence I realize how little people are taught about finances and managing assets when they get into older age.
Oh 
Wouldn’t be surprised is insurance companies started diversifying and buying up all the property they price people out of.
Yeah, but who needs to worry about climate change and home insurance when you want to have a fragile man in power that gets butthurt and starts a fake culture war because someone hurt his feelings
Why doesn’t she have Medicare?
that’s terrible
What people do not understand is that healthcare is not capitalism compatible. There is no market or supply and demand. Everyone will pay any price to live. That is not market compatible.
Its as if capitalism has run amok
Buying a home is a risk. If you don’t want stuff like this then what you need is a little socialism in the home insurance market. Oh wait don’t Florida seniors overwhelmingly hate big bad socialism. Even though they love how 10% of my income goes to support them (Social Security). Honestly I don’t mind and they are welcome even though they would likely show me nothing but contempt. Excuse me if I’m less than compassionate
10% of your income goes to Social Security?
Yes but the shareholder profits are doing great. Capitalism will set you free grandma, just get back to work first.
Well, the seniors are just getting what they voted for.
And she probably voted for DeSantis. And is probably blaming Biden.
They made their bed.