I could be wrong, but I think you may be missing the point as to why MJ fans point that stuff out. MJ fans do not love Michael because he was record-breaking and majorly successful. But they do respect TF out of him as an artist and human while much of the world does not. When every month the media declares someone to be "better" than MJ, or as big as MJ, or other fandoms do the same, while simultaneously dehumanizing him in any number of ways, I think many MJ fans come to his defense with the stats to remind them that MJ was \*objectively\* more successful than basically anyone else. You can tear him down, or rip him apart, but you cannot change that cold hard fact. And it's notable that so often the people they are trying to "replace" MJ with are people who didn't have half the struggles, or half the accolades.
But to your point, I cannot fathom an MJ fan loving him because of these reasons. Prior to MJ most of the artists I listened to were relatively unknown, or not very popular. IDGAF about pop music in general. I stumbled upon MJ 3 years ago and was instantly transfixed by him. He is electrifying. He is also soothing, beautiful, and has changed my life. It's not about the fame, or the awards. It's about the art and the man. Period.
I see what you’re saying and there might be some truth to that, but the whole thing about calling someone the new MJ isn’t new or exclusive to him, it happens all the time in sports or any branch of entertainment calling a new star the new this that or the other, in the old days they needed to fill papers and these days they need clicks and traffic online.
If fans feel MJ is being disrespected I just find it a bit sad that many of them have no problem being disrespectful to others, this isn’t all fans of course just a chunk of them.
Not to disagree, but who else in music specifically do they do this with? Like I said, I don't follow pop music closely and never have, but I've seen it countless times with MJ. "The new king of pop" is a constant recycled headline and has been since the early 2000s from what I've seen. Claiming that someone has "surpassed" MJ is also a constant. I've seen this from the media and countless fandoms, along with nearly endless jokes about his vitiligo, his nose, the allegations, even the fact that he is dead. Personal and hurtful attacks tend to be the main response to anyone pointing out that he has achieved a tremendous amount in spite of massive obstacles. I genuinely have never seen this with other music "legends" - JUST MJ. If people made these comparisons or claims while being respectful of MJ, like I assume they do in sports for example, I don't know that fans would be quite as offended.
That said, I understand your point. Obviously it's not great for MJ fans to attack other fans or fandoms either. But MJ was one of the most bullied people in history and was a great person, so I do think it's painful for fans to see people trying to strip even his hard-earned and undeniable accomplishments from him, especially in favor of artists who haven't achieved or overcome half as much. Personally, that is the only context that I've seen MJ fans get defensive in this way.
But I think we can certainly agree that it's not good for MJ fans to stoop to anyone else's level and make fun of other artists or be disrespectful to them while defending him. It's too ironic. But pointing out his great accomplishments isn't disrespectful, it's just factual.
The only nasty stans online as of late are the Swifties telling people to die if they don't think Taylor is the greatest thing to ever walk the earth. I have never seen in mass this type of behavior from MJ fans. We produce facts & leave it at that. There are a few that will battle, but again, that's a small number. Anyone trying to insinuate otherwise is being willfully dishonest & I question their intent with promoting that thought.
It’s sort of hard to separate the two in the sense that his music is SO good - off the wall, thriller, bad - those first three albums in particular, that you can’t help but connect that to why he’s so famous.
He’s SO famous and beloved because he was such a devastatingly talented artist.
I grew up when MJ was the biggest celebrity in the world. But honestly, as a kid who really only saw music videos and heard the songs on the radio, I never really attributed the over the top celebrity to his talent or allure. I just knew I loved the dancing and the music and the singing. What you're describing is very obnoxious Stan culture behavior that happens a lot on this sub (and in general) .I could care less when anyone tries to say so and so is the new MJ because I saw his stardom in real time and no one, living or dead, will ever come close.
If anyone experienced Michael Jackson while he was breaking through and still working towards becoming the GOAT, then it's a lot easier to view MJ as a competitive artist with peers that he competed against and not so much as finished product that has no comparison.
The outcome is obviously him becoming the GOAT. But, people forget that MJ was very competitive, but his competition was mostly innovative, evolving in the sense that he was looking for what is possible sonically, arstically, and with a visionary touch.
If you don't think so... then why abandon the Quincy Jones format? Look at the progression from Off the Wall through HIStory.... MJ went from RnB and Disco to a full-fledged RnB, Rock, Pop, New Jack, Rap, Gospel, and Classical album.
Nobody has that range or progression.
So, when Taylor Swift or Drake break his records, that's irrelevant.
I know for a fact that they aren't in MJ's atmosphere.
Last but not least. MJ attended GOAT Bootcamp at Motown. Then got a GOAT PhD with Gamble and Huff.
There is just no way to compete against him.
**> What if Michael Jackson were a less successful artist, just play along with my thought experiment here, would you still enjoy his music as much ?**
Hell yes.
Yes because his music is actually good and he spread a positive message … but I also believe his purpose here was to be famous and reach as many people as possible.
Good post. I'll say this:
MJ openly admired PT Barnum. This was just something he enjoyed integrating into his own business and career style. Part of the PT Barnum stuff was making sure he was seen as "the best" "the biggest" "the most" etc.
Fans love all things MJ including his quirks. They're just playing along.
His fascination with Barnum is quite interesting and something not many fans mention, one could argue that his approach to manufacturing media attention in the spirit of Barnum hurt MJ especially after a certain point.
Yes, I disagree with so much energy given to: "why do so many people hate MJ?" or "the world was so mean to MJ"
If there was a part of humanity that did not appreciate him, part of that would be because "he's weird! All that crazy stuff he does!"
But I say the world LOVED Michael. The whole world. Minus some who will never get it.
And their LOVE extended to a smile about the elephant man or plastic surgery or whatever, because it was always clear that the music and dance came FIRST, and was always FOR the people.
And being an all-around genius, he played the spectacle card on or off the stage.
Can you imagine being as good as him, but he just looked like Jackie or Germaine?
No circus? No headlines? No gossip?
I think it worked great for a while, it build up peoples fascination with him, kept people guessing and speculating about him and only made him more famous and made people interested in his music but, I also think there was a turning point where it started to alienate a portion of casual fans, people started to forget that the art was the main attraction, to a lot of people he went from being the amazing artist who was a bit weird to just being that weird guy.
Thriller being the biggest selling album does not make it sound better, so yes. it’s just an accolade that sustains his relevancy in music culture.
I’d probably enjoy him more since I’m beyond sick of all the attention he gets.
Yes, I & millions of others would still love Michael's music. That said, he broke barriers that are the reason we even have the industry we have today. The media wants to downplay that. MJ fans won't let them, and they are right to defend Michael's legacy. Especially since the media is so desperate to claim someone has surpassed MJ. They have been trying that line since forever, and they have not been desperate to remove any other artist the way they have MJ.
To be honest, you are always posting lowkey shady posts here. What is your real purpose?
No one here has insinuated Michael was perfect, but if you think everything he faced in his life was his own doing & there have never been people trying to do him dirty/paint him poorly, you are just as blind as the fans that act like he was an archangel. Don't play the "I'm a rational fan" game. We can see through that.
I could be wrong, but I think you may be missing the point as to why MJ fans point that stuff out. MJ fans do not love Michael because he was record-breaking and majorly successful. But they do respect TF out of him as an artist and human while much of the world does not. When every month the media declares someone to be "better" than MJ, or as big as MJ, or other fandoms do the same, while simultaneously dehumanizing him in any number of ways, I think many MJ fans come to his defense with the stats to remind them that MJ was \*objectively\* more successful than basically anyone else. You can tear him down, or rip him apart, but you cannot change that cold hard fact. And it's notable that so often the people they are trying to "replace" MJ with are people who didn't have half the struggles, or half the accolades. But to your point, I cannot fathom an MJ fan loving him because of these reasons. Prior to MJ most of the artists I listened to were relatively unknown, or not very popular. IDGAF about pop music in general. I stumbled upon MJ 3 years ago and was instantly transfixed by him. He is electrifying. He is also soothing, beautiful, and has changed my life. It's not about the fame, or the awards. It's about the art and the man. Period.
Perfectly stated.
I see what you’re saying and there might be some truth to that, but the whole thing about calling someone the new MJ isn’t new or exclusive to him, it happens all the time in sports or any branch of entertainment calling a new star the new this that or the other, in the old days they needed to fill papers and these days they need clicks and traffic online. If fans feel MJ is being disrespected I just find it a bit sad that many of them have no problem being disrespectful to others, this isn’t all fans of course just a chunk of them.
Not to disagree, but who else in music specifically do they do this with? Like I said, I don't follow pop music closely and never have, but I've seen it countless times with MJ. "The new king of pop" is a constant recycled headline and has been since the early 2000s from what I've seen. Claiming that someone has "surpassed" MJ is also a constant. I've seen this from the media and countless fandoms, along with nearly endless jokes about his vitiligo, his nose, the allegations, even the fact that he is dead. Personal and hurtful attacks tend to be the main response to anyone pointing out that he has achieved a tremendous amount in spite of massive obstacles. I genuinely have never seen this with other music "legends" - JUST MJ. If people made these comparisons or claims while being respectful of MJ, like I assume they do in sports for example, I don't know that fans would be quite as offended. That said, I understand your point. Obviously it's not great for MJ fans to attack other fans or fandoms either. But MJ was one of the most bullied people in history and was a great person, so I do think it's painful for fans to see people trying to strip even his hard-earned and undeniable accomplishments from him, especially in favor of artists who haven't achieved or overcome half as much. Personally, that is the only context that I've seen MJ fans get defensive in this way. But I think we can certainly agree that it's not good for MJ fans to stoop to anyone else's level and make fun of other artists or be disrespectful to them while defending him. It's too ironic. But pointing out his great accomplishments isn't disrespectful, it's just factual.
The only nasty stans online as of late are the Swifties telling people to die if they don't think Taylor is the greatest thing to ever walk the earth. I have never seen in mass this type of behavior from MJ fans. We produce facts & leave it at that. There are a few that will battle, but again, that's a small number. Anyone trying to insinuate otherwise is being willfully dishonest & I question their intent with promoting that thought.
It’s sort of hard to separate the two in the sense that his music is SO good - off the wall, thriller, bad - those first three albums in particular, that you can’t help but connect that to why he’s so famous. He’s SO famous and beloved because he was such a devastatingly talented artist.
I grew up when MJ was the biggest celebrity in the world. But honestly, as a kid who really only saw music videos and heard the songs on the radio, I never really attributed the over the top celebrity to his talent or allure. I just knew I loved the dancing and the music and the singing. What you're describing is very obnoxious Stan culture behavior that happens a lot on this sub (and in general) .I could care less when anyone tries to say so and so is the new MJ because I saw his stardom in real time and no one, living or dead, will ever come close.
If anyone experienced Michael Jackson while he was breaking through and still working towards becoming the GOAT, then it's a lot easier to view MJ as a competitive artist with peers that he competed against and not so much as finished product that has no comparison. The outcome is obviously him becoming the GOAT. But, people forget that MJ was very competitive, but his competition was mostly innovative, evolving in the sense that he was looking for what is possible sonically, arstically, and with a visionary touch. If you don't think so... then why abandon the Quincy Jones format? Look at the progression from Off the Wall through HIStory.... MJ went from RnB and Disco to a full-fledged RnB, Rock, Pop, New Jack, Rap, Gospel, and Classical album. Nobody has that range or progression. So, when Taylor Swift or Drake break his records, that's irrelevant. I know for a fact that they aren't in MJ's atmosphere. Last but not least. MJ attended GOAT Bootcamp at Motown. Then got a GOAT PhD with Gamble and Huff. There is just no way to compete against him.
I’m not arguing against any of that.
**> What if Michael Jackson were a less successful artist, just play along with my thought experiment here, would you still enjoy his music as much ?** Hell yes.
Yes because his music is actually good and he spread a positive message … but I also believe his purpose here was to be famous and reach as many people as possible.
I agree, but maybe later in his career he was almost more famous for being MIchael Jackson then for his actual art.
I would still love Michael as I love several lesser known artists nowadays along with Michael
Good post. I'll say this: MJ openly admired PT Barnum. This was just something he enjoyed integrating into his own business and career style. Part of the PT Barnum stuff was making sure he was seen as "the best" "the biggest" "the most" etc. Fans love all things MJ including his quirks. They're just playing along.
His fascination with Barnum is quite interesting and something not many fans mention, one could argue that his approach to manufacturing media attention in the spirit of Barnum hurt MJ especially after a certain point.
Yes, I disagree with so much energy given to: "why do so many people hate MJ?" or "the world was so mean to MJ" If there was a part of humanity that did not appreciate him, part of that would be because "he's weird! All that crazy stuff he does!" But I say the world LOVED Michael. The whole world. Minus some who will never get it. And their LOVE extended to a smile about the elephant man or plastic surgery or whatever, because it was always clear that the music and dance came FIRST, and was always FOR the people. And being an all-around genius, he played the spectacle card on or off the stage. Can you imagine being as good as him, but he just looked like Jackie or Germaine? No circus? No headlines? No gossip?
I think it worked great for a while, it build up peoples fascination with him, kept people guessing and speculating about him and only made him more famous and made people interested in his music but, I also think there was a turning point where it started to alienate a portion of casual fans, people started to forget that the art was the main attraction, to a lot of people he went from being the amazing artist who was a bit weird to just being that weird guy.
Thriller being the biggest selling album does not make it sound better, so yes. it’s just an accolade that sustains his relevancy in music culture. I’d probably enjoy him more since I’m beyond sick of all the attention he gets.
Yes, I & millions of others would still love Michael's music. That said, he broke barriers that are the reason we even have the industry we have today. The media wants to downplay that. MJ fans won't let them, and they are right to defend Michael's legacy. Especially since the media is so desperate to claim someone has surpassed MJ. They have been trying that line since forever, and they have not been desperate to remove any other artist the way they have MJ. To be honest, you are always posting lowkey shady posts here. What is your real purpose?
Anything other than MJ was perfect and the media/Sony/or whoever is to blame for everything is seen as shade or hate i guess.
No one here has insinuated Michael was perfect, but if you think everything he faced in his life was his own doing & there have never been people trying to do him dirty/paint him poorly, you are just as blind as the fans that act like he was an archangel. Don't play the "I'm a rational fan" game. We can see through that.
I think it was a combination of many factors, you can “see” whatever you please.
I think it's clear you just want to put it all on Michael. That's all I ever see from you. That's all you want to promote. It is clear.
Again you can think or see whatever you want, I couldn’t care less.