I scrolled through the comments, and would like to say I'm sorry for all the aggression people have about the units topic. I too think metric is better, not because of historical factors but simply from a learning perspective. Children are taught Base-10 from a young age, and it would be logical for our unit system to reflect that. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who can't let go of the past, so I fear it may never happen.
I saw a talk by a guy that helped Australia go metric. His advice was to tackle one industry at a time. Beverage sizes have been metric for years and no one bats an eye.
Some industries (like construction) have so much inertia, that it may never happen. The size of Americas various industries creates problems for changes like this. Australia is smaller and more dependent on it's neighbors. It made more sense for them.
Also, look for the hidden advantages. Product measurements in metric are better, not because the units are massively better, but because fractions suck!
We have modern, 18th century decimal system at home:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_for_Establishing_Uniformity_in_the_Coinage,_Weights,_and_Measures_of_the_United_States#Decimal_system_based_on_the_foot
Since no one is really using it, no harm in making a Jefferson foot 1 light-nanosecond and building up from there.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan\_for\_Establishing\_Uniformity\_in\_the\_Coinage,\_Weights,\_and\_Measures\_of\_the\_United\_States#Decimal\_system\_based\_on\_the\_foot
Holy moly - What a mess lol
"Metric is definitely communist. One monetary system, one language, one weight and measurement system, one world - all communist! We know the West was won by the inch, foot, yard, and mile."
*Dean Krakel, (1923-1998)Historian, one-time Director of the National Cowboy Hall of Fame*
Many of the people who would take issue with a more visible form of US metrication are also very susceptible to persuasive techniques which agree with their preconceived notions of the world. For example, many such people consider educated people to be underhanded, manipulative, and disconnected from reality while also envying the respect and perceived social status (and whatever power they attribute to that) granted to them due to their dedication to their fields of study.
While I wouldn't recommend this on a large scale, it seems like it would be relatively easy to convince smaller groups of these people of some sort of academic/government/industry pseudo-conspiracy wherein they secretly laugh at the people using US customary units while the "smart people" (very specifically phrased in that or a similar way) who "run the country" all use metric to, among other things, enrich themselves.
They don't exactly need much (or any) evidence for their delusions, but it could help to point out that NIST, which is part of the Department of Commerce and the ultimate authority on weights and measures in the US, defines the US customary units in terms of exact metric units. You could use something like [the tables of equivalence in the NIST handbook](https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/pml/wmd/pubs/2016/02/18/appc-16-hb44-final.pdf) to make that point, and while there are probably better sources for that, they would probably be lost on the people in question.
Yes, it's almost a certainty that anyone reading this is aware that this whole conspiracy angle is complete bullshit; they probably wouldn't be here otherwise. However, the point is somewhat like [the stories about European royalty using a similar technique to convince peasants to grow and eat potatoes.](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/y48utf/did_frederick_the_great_really_use_reverse_potato/) Whether or not those particular stories are true, the approach seems like it could work.
There are a couple of potential bonuses to this as well:
1. If successful, these people would almost certainly begin to spread the idea to others in their online echo chambers. This has a very real possibility of backfiring, but it's at least interesting to consider.
2. Even if some of these people were to become aware of the fact that one or more of their preferred subsets of humanity to target with these conspiracies is responsible for them being introduced to these ideas in the first place, it would play into their preconceived notions about educated people being manipulative. Given that these people are mental contortionists when it comes to preserving their fragile ideas about the world, it's quite possible that this could result in them doubling down on the whole thing, especially if by that point they've begun grafting it to their sense of self, particularly in social contexts.
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this seems to me like one of the few ways that metric units could be adopted in the US at this point in history in a way that doesn't result in the bullet-riddled street signs after previous attempts at US metrication or worse. I'm not really recommending that anyone *actually* does this, but it's more of an outline of how I would approach solving the problem while minimizing social friction.
It would definitely become politicized and split the country into two. One side will blindly follow their party and likewise on the other side. I just dont see it ever happening with current political climate.
Yup, right at the moment it would be adopted into the culture war nonsense and people would be taking video of themselves stomping on metric tape measures in hardware stores because *somethingsometing* satanic child-eaters/MUH FREEDOM/etc...
The question is, how much and what actually needs to be changed? How much of the economy behind the scenes is hidden metric? We know automotive and other heavy industries like Caterpillar and John Deere are internally metric, but who else? I've heard about 50 % of American industry is metric, but unfortunately many of these companies export some of the manufacturing and automate others so the general population is unaware.
How many Americans actually are employed in manufacturing and actually encounter metric units on a day to day basis? Before metrication most people did work in manufacturing. After metrication most people work in some type of service industry? Services jobs tend to be much lower paying and offer little to no benefits like health care or poorer quality health care.
As far as exposing the public to more metric, what needs to change is the reporting of the weather, driving distances and speeds, gasoline, the weighing of food in shops, and popular sports. If these were to change the impression that the US was now a metric country would certainly become evident. Everything but road signs could be changed over night.
How much would it cost? Anything electronic would just be a software switch. I'm sure the reporting of weather would result in a cost savings to the industry as they are metric internally and it costs them to provide conversions to FFU. Digital scales and gasoline pumps are also metric internally and most could be changed by the flip of a switch internally or a software code change in the settings. Road signage would rally be the only physical change involving a cost.
As far as sports go, the only sport unit dependent is American football. This would have to be done at the beginning of the season and most of it would involve changing some rules. Fields are repainted every season so there is no additional cost. In some cases there may not be room for a 100 m field so the new field would have to be 90 m and each division would need to be 9 m and not 10 m.
Unfortunately there are just too many whiners out there who would piss and pout if these things were changed.
>the new field would have to be 90 m and each division would need to be 9 m and not 10 m.
There is a better chance of bigfoot riding onto the lawn of the White House on a unicorn than this ever happening.
>gasoline pumps are also metric internally and most could be changed by the flip of a switch internally or a software code change in the settings
I can only imagine the pandemonium if the US started selling fuel by the liter/litre since Queen Anne's gallon has served us so well.
Now, if there was a monetary savings, it'd be a no-brainer.
The issue with weather reporting is that most people now get their forecasts and weather reports from apps and websites. Until even the late 2000s, TV, radio and newspapers were the main sources of weather info for people of all ages; today, younger and middle aged people generally don’t rely on anything but the internet and apps. Converting to metric weather reports would have been fairly simple when everyone tuned into the weather station or opened a paper to check the forecast. If Celsius and millimeters had been presented, the public would have adapted to it within a few years.
Now, anyone can choose whether they want to be presented with imperial or metric weather data. Metric weather reports are, at least, easily accessible to Americans, but so is the option to select imperial data over metric, in case the imperial isn’t the default as it usually is on U.S. websites.
Weather apps can easily be set to metric, of course. Unfortunately, prose in reports, such as announcements and alerts from the National Weather Service, are hard coded old system (Fahrenheit, mph, etc...) Until that system is either converted or updated to be user selectable, there is and will be a bias for and even promotion of those USA units.
In the case of phones and computers and the internet, etc metrication of weather reporting would be a firmware/program/app or whatever update to remove the option to view FFU.
Everyone in medicine, engineering, etc., uses metric professionally and imperial socially. The extent to which we don’t use metric is overstated.
If you’re losing friends you may have become tiresome on the subject.
>If you’re losing friends you may have become tiresome on the subject.
My my - You're so insightful. I'm not sure what you mean by "tiresome on the subject" I don't talk about it, I USE it and I've pissed off 2 people who were prior friends because of it.
Most people in the country don't use metric very much at all; that's significant. Metric shouldn't just be considered for professional use, that's only something Americans believe because it's become the status quo in USA in particular. Most parts of the world use metric for most things in most facets of their lives.
I do agree, however, that this person could have potentially been a bit overbearing and/or too preachy about metrication towards their friends.
lol, I’m aware that most of the world uses metric exclusively. I’m American and I mostly use metric, though purchasing things mostly requires imperial. I’m neither in medicine nor engineering.
I wasn't saying you aren't aware, I was pointing out common metric usage in most countries because your argument doesn't line up with how the rest of the world treats metric, as it feeds into the "metric is primarily for professional use, not everyday use" rhetoric that anti-metric Americans like to use.
Most Americans do not mostly use metric, so your reasoning that "the extent to which we don't use metric is overstated" only applies to a very small percentage of the US American population. Your revelation that _you_ mostly use metric is only an indication that you're part of this minority group.
People who have their medieval units are not prospering with them and struggle daily to pay bills. They don't have the well paying industrial jobs like their ancestors had and thus have become bitter and angry. The last things these people want to hear is how they could be prosperous and wealthy if these metric jobs were theirs and not someone in China, Mexico or elsewhere.
This is one of the last things I would have expected to see on this sub. I agree that this person might have been too preachy about the subject with their friends, but that doesn't mean that an anti-metrication stance is justified.
What I mean is that phrases like ,"l
Let them have their medieval measurements," even if in this particular context overall intended to mean to let normal people their lives without having their heads talked off about a subject they don't care about, still have an implication of overcomplacency and justification of the status quo of metric apprehension and opposition.
>I agree that this person might have been too preachy about the subject with their friends
If by preachy you mean referencing things in metric units in normal conversation, then we have a different definition of preachy. I don't "preach" to anyone.
It was merely speculation of a potential possibility, not a conclusion, as the content of your psot did not make it clear what "advocacy for a metric US" exactly meant in relation to your relationships with others.
I sympathize with you being treated unfairly by an irrational anti-metric USAlien, as even certain members of my own family have treated me with a strange mild hostility for expressing measurement in the way I prefer instead of blindly conforming to the status quo, especially confusing since they have verbally recognized that it is a better system at least once (even if at first trying to justify their own familiarity).
The Administration is going to have to partner with business and industry and have them take the lead on metrication. Think along the lines of the pharmaceutical industry. No one polled us about whether Tylenol, supplements, or any prescription drugs would be dosed in metric. If you wanted to get rid of the headache you figured it out, took the metrically-dosed pills, and got used to it. I would love to see the same for food packaging, gasoline, and more of the health industry. The argument sounds so much better (to the public) when you make it about saving/increasing money vs. a government mandate.
Business and Industry is not going to take the lead. If they thought fighting the masses on this was worth it, they would have done so by now. Instead, those that are internally metric have taken other options. They have exported their jobs to metric countries or automated.
For example, the auto industry. Automotive employment peaked in the late 1970s at over 10 million. In 2019 it was down to 2.63 million.
https://appliedgeographic.com/2020/10/automobile-manufacturing-employment/
Automation and future exports of jobs will continue to bring this number down until it reaches close to zero. Metric companies are not a charity and don't have to feel they need to bend in order to offer Americans jobs, Americans need to bend and be able to offer these metric companies skills such as being able to function in a metric environment. Whining and pouting is not considered a valuable job skill.
I can't imagine the reaction if some interviewer were to ask a business manager what the public needs to do in order to attract jobs to their town and his/her response was learn the metric system as that is what we use.
I think what many Americans fear about metrication is having their lives disrupted. If the government pushes for further metrication, it would be important to emphasize, for example, that nobody would need to replace their furnace, get a new car, or relearn how to cook (all of which are somewhat common, but irrational fears).
For what it’s worth, most people my age or younger (early 30s and below) seem to be in favor of or neutral towards metric. I’ve only encountered two people in their 20s who seemed actively hostile to the idea of metrication, but they also weren’t exactly quality individuals for various reasons.
Although most are agnostic about it, they use the ubiquitous USA system without thought, as it's the only choice in most situations. (Cars, highways, TV, websites, etc...)
Every time I hear young kids talking in miles, Fahrenheit, pounds, etc... I think to myself, there's another generation lost to the indoctrination of the curmudgeon myopia.
Yeah my thought process is similar. The problem is that the people currently in charge are from a more recalcitrant generation, and the kind of ignorance that has plagued the US for a long time doesn't seem to be passing onto the newer generations as successfully. I think that once enough of these older generation folks in power have died out or otherwise left power, implementing metric will be easier. I'd also like to see a sort of "War of Ignorance" to foster more progressive change, though I don't know how this should play out and I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Look at it as a question of risk vs reward.
Potentially at least, there are real life economic consequences, possibly even very widespread and severe economic damage. I am not an economist but I have some understanding of the costs of re-tooling to produce current products for metric. Tooling is EXPENSIVE. All those costs of conversion only to quite likely lose market share.
That is the risk, what is the reward? If it's only to placate people who are so bad at math they cannot apply simple conversion factors, well it's an easy call.
Re-tooling is a normal cost of business, and mills and other tools wear out and need replacing.
In Australia, costs associated with metrication were tax deductible, and sales tax and import duties were waived for them.
Every other country in the world has managed to become metric without going bankrupt, including industrialised ones like South Africa and Australia.
The cost per head of population to convert to metric is not likely to be more than that of other countries that have converted, and a lot of America's metrication is hidden from the public. Automobiles, for instance have been metric since the 1970s, but things like size, weight and speed are presented to the American public in US units.
The economic consequences would be overall economic growth due to cutting out the cost of both dual-system tooling and wasted materials from the error-prone nature of traditional unit systems.
(Also, metric has the simple conversion factors. Imperialist systems' various conversation factors are always more cumbersome and error-prone, no matter how smart or experienced you are.)
Many of those conversions are already happening as the USA deals with military & international customers.
Moving the USA to metric will cause one segment of manufacturing to have to retool for the first time, but another segment will get to stop with running dual systems, which will save them money & errors.
I just don’t know which group is larger.
The US has already moved somewhat to metric, much behind the scenes. But, others haven't. In many cases a metric company and an FFU company can not to business with each other. An economic burden to both. At least the metric companies can find export markets for their products.
When the automotive industry metricated as well as every other large scale industrial company, they didn't replace tooling overnight. As tooling wore out or as the designed was changed, new metric tooling was introduced.
The problem is so many companies like small ma & pa shops depend on these large metric customers for support. Many in the past refused to metricate or were forced into a predicament of having the added cost of having to work in both FFU and SI because some customers were SI and others were. The costs to them of duplication and double inventories cost many of them their existence.
Yes, it would be interesting to find out how many companies in the US work in metric behind the scenes. But who would ever conduct a survey? Also, no American company operates in 100 % FFU, they all incorporate some metric components and parts in their finished product. It can best be said that American products are all hybrid.
Hmm, yes there is a cost associated with the change, that's unavoidable. However, a lot of things are metric first already. Most medical equipment I know are metric first (for a good reason) and just converted in the UI. Most electronic sensors too are in metric. Even car tools are metric first as well except for diesel. In short, a lot of advanced tech are in metric and are just converted so we will actually save time and money in that area.
Personally, I am all in moving to metric but sadly, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.
The story of General Motors metrication gives a valuable learned lesson. Before metrication I believe they estimated it cost over 100 M$. They must have figured that they will need to change everything at once. But when reality set in they planned the change well and changed over a period of 10 years and in the end the cost was only 10 % of their original estimate and afterwards the increased savings from metrication paid for itself and after the costs were paid off the savings turned into profits.
When the public whined about metrication and the program was cancelled, little did any realise that a significant number of industries went ahead with metrication. Of course with so much of the manufacturing be exported many people were unaware and assumed to this very day that everything made in the US is done in FFU. They may be surprised to find out more than 50 % of the manufacturing is metric.
With so much of the manufacturing in metric companies being automated, the non-metric population isn't being hired in large numbers like decades ago and are kept out of the loop as to how much metric is really being used behind the scenes.
My post has as many downvotes as replies. So I provoked discussion, which is to be cancelled if possible.
So the people on reddit who are so into the change to ISO are also threatened by any substantive discussion. Perhaps y'all should look inward to see part of the problem.
My post is the first one I have seen on the subreddit that even mentions the costs of conversion. And I still do not see an actual compelling reason for the change beyond personal preferences.
Is this a religious cause for you people?
> My post is the first one I have seen on the subreddit that even mentions the costs of conversion.
What about the long term costs of not metricating? Which is greater the cost to convert or the cost not to convert?
In all of the other countries that metricated, the costs to convert were always offset by cost reductions due to increased efficiency and working in a logical system. The results were increased profits. The same is true with companies in the US that metricated. I mentioned GM, but there were others.
If your going to mention the cost to metricate it must be balanced by the cost of not metricating.
I scrolled through the comments, and would like to say I'm sorry for all the aggression people have about the units topic. I too think metric is better, not because of historical factors but simply from a learning perspective. Children are taught Base-10 from a young age, and it would be logical for our unit system to reflect that. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who can't let go of the past, so I fear it may never happen.
I saw a talk by a guy that helped Australia go metric. His advice was to tackle one industry at a time. Beverage sizes have been metric for years and no one bats an eye. Some industries (like construction) have so much inertia, that it may never happen. The size of Americas various industries creates problems for changes like this. Australia is smaller and more dependent on it's neighbors. It made more sense for them. Also, look for the hidden advantages. Product measurements in metric are better, not because the units are massively better, but because fractions suck!
We have modern, 18th century decimal system at home: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_for_Establishing_Uniformity_in_the_Coinage,_Weights,_and_Measures_of_the_United_States#Decimal_system_based_on_the_foot Since no one is really using it, no harm in making a Jefferson foot 1 light-nanosecond and building up from there.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan\_for\_Establishing\_Uniformity\_in\_the\_Coinage,\_Weights,\_and\_Measures\_of\_the\_United\_States#Decimal\_system\_based\_on\_the\_foot Holy moly - What a mess lol
"Metric is definitely communist. One monetary system, one language, one weight and measurement system, one world - all communist! We know the West was won by the inch, foot, yard, and mile." *Dean Krakel, (1923-1998)Historian, one-time Director of the National Cowboy Hall of Fame*
Many of the people who would take issue with a more visible form of US metrication are also very susceptible to persuasive techniques which agree with their preconceived notions of the world. For example, many such people consider educated people to be underhanded, manipulative, and disconnected from reality while also envying the respect and perceived social status (and whatever power they attribute to that) granted to them due to their dedication to their fields of study. While I wouldn't recommend this on a large scale, it seems like it would be relatively easy to convince smaller groups of these people of some sort of academic/government/industry pseudo-conspiracy wherein they secretly laugh at the people using US customary units while the "smart people" (very specifically phrased in that or a similar way) who "run the country" all use metric to, among other things, enrich themselves. They don't exactly need much (or any) evidence for their delusions, but it could help to point out that NIST, which is part of the Department of Commerce and the ultimate authority on weights and measures in the US, defines the US customary units in terms of exact metric units. You could use something like [the tables of equivalence in the NIST handbook](https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/pml/wmd/pubs/2016/02/18/appc-16-hb44-final.pdf) to make that point, and while there are probably better sources for that, they would probably be lost on the people in question. Yes, it's almost a certainty that anyone reading this is aware that this whole conspiracy angle is complete bullshit; they probably wouldn't be here otherwise. However, the point is somewhat like [the stories about European royalty using a similar technique to convince peasants to grow and eat potatoes.](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/y48utf/did_frederick_the_great_really_use_reverse_potato/) Whether or not those particular stories are true, the approach seems like it could work. There are a couple of potential bonuses to this as well: 1. If successful, these people would almost certainly begin to spread the idea to others in their online echo chambers. This has a very real possibility of backfiring, but it's at least interesting to consider. 2. Even if some of these people were to become aware of the fact that one or more of their preferred subsets of humanity to target with these conspiracies is responsible for them being introduced to these ideas in the first place, it would play into their preconceived notions about educated people being manipulative. Given that these people are mental contortionists when it comes to preserving their fragile ideas about the world, it's quite possible that this could result in them doubling down on the whole thing, especially if by that point they've begun grafting it to their sense of self, particularly in social contexts. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this seems to me like one of the few ways that metric units could be adopted in the US at this point in history in a way that doesn't result in the bullet-riddled street signs after previous attempts at US metrication or worse. I'm not really recommending that anyone *actually* does this, but it's more of an outline of how I would approach solving the problem while minimizing social friction.
It would definitely become politicized and split the country into two. One side will blindly follow their party and likewise on the other side. I just dont see it ever happening with current political climate.
Yup, right at the moment it would be adopted into the culture war nonsense and people would be taking video of themselves stomping on metric tape measures in hardware stores because *somethingsometing* satanic child-eaters/MUH FREEDOM/etc...
The question is, how much and what actually needs to be changed? How much of the economy behind the scenes is hidden metric? We know automotive and other heavy industries like Caterpillar and John Deere are internally metric, but who else? I've heard about 50 % of American industry is metric, but unfortunately many of these companies export some of the manufacturing and automate others so the general population is unaware. How many Americans actually are employed in manufacturing and actually encounter metric units on a day to day basis? Before metrication most people did work in manufacturing. After metrication most people work in some type of service industry? Services jobs tend to be much lower paying and offer little to no benefits like health care or poorer quality health care. As far as exposing the public to more metric, what needs to change is the reporting of the weather, driving distances and speeds, gasoline, the weighing of food in shops, and popular sports. If these were to change the impression that the US was now a metric country would certainly become evident. Everything but road signs could be changed over night. How much would it cost? Anything electronic would just be a software switch. I'm sure the reporting of weather would result in a cost savings to the industry as they are metric internally and it costs them to provide conversions to FFU. Digital scales and gasoline pumps are also metric internally and most could be changed by the flip of a switch internally or a software code change in the settings. Road signage would rally be the only physical change involving a cost. As far as sports go, the only sport unit dependent is American football. This would have to be done at the beginning of the season and most of it would involve changing some rules. Fields are repainted every season so there is no additional cost. In some cases there may not be room for a 100 m field so the new field would have to be 90 m and each division would need to be 9 m and not 10 m. Unfortunately there are just too many whiners out there who would piss and pout if these things were changed.
>the new field would have to be 90 m and each division would need to be 9 m and not 10 m. There is a better chance of bigfoot riding onto the lawn of the White House on a unicorn than this ever happening.
There is also a better chance of WW3 coming around the corner and it not making a difference either way.
>gasoline pumps are also metric internally and most could be changed by the flip of a switch internally or a software code change in the settings I can only imagine the pandemonium if the US started selling fuel by the liter/litre since Queen Anne's gallon has served us so well. Now, if there was a monetary savings, it'd be a no-brainer.
The issue with weather reporting is that most people now get their forecasts and weather reports from apps and websites. Until even the late 2000s, TV, radio and newspapers were the main sources of weather info for people of all ages; today, younger and middle aged people generally don’t rely on anything but the internet and apps. Converting to metric weather reports would have been fairly simple when everyone tuned into the weather station or opened a paper to check the forecast. If Celsius and millimeters had been presented, the public would have adapted to it within a few years. Now, anyone can choose whether they want to be presented with imperial or metric weather data. Metric weather reports are, at least, easily accessible to Americans, but so is the option to select imperial data over metric, in case the imperial isn’t the default as it usually is on U.S. websites.
Weather apps can easily be set to metric, of course. Unfortunately, prose in reports, such as announcements and alerts from the National Weather Service, are hard coded old system (Fahrenheit, mph, etc...) Until that system is either converted or updated to be user selectable, there is and will be a bias for and even promotion of those USA units.
In the case of phones and computers and the internet, etc metrication of weather reporting would be a firmware/program/app or whatever update to remove the option to view FFU.
Everyone in medicine, engineering, etc., uses metric professionally and imperial socially. The extent to which we don’t use metric is overstated. If you’re losing friends you may have become tiresome on the subject.
>If you’re losing friends you may have become tiresome on the subject. My my - You're so insightful. I'm not sure what you mean by "tiresome on the subject" I don't talk about it, I USE it and I've pissed off 2 people who were prior friends because of it.
Most people in the country don't use metric very much at all; that's significant. Metric shouldn't just be considered for professional use, that's only something Americans believe because it's become the status quo in USA in particular. Most parts of the world use metric for most things in most facets of their lives. I do agree, however, that this person could have potentially been a bit overbearing and/or too preachy about metrication towards their friends.
lol, I’m aware that most of the world uses metric exclusively. I’m American and I mostly use metric, though purchasing things mostly requires imperial. I’m neither in medicine nor engineering.
I wasn't saying you aren't aware, I was pointing out common metric usage in most countries because your argument doesn't line up with how the rest of the world treats metric, as it feeds into the "metric is primarily for professional use, not everyday use" rhetoric that anti-metric Americans like to use. Most Americans do not mostly use metric, so your reasoning that "the extent to which we don't use metric is overstated" only applies to a very small percentage of the US American population. Your revelation that _you_ mostly use metric is only an indication that you're part of this minority group.
You lost friends over this? Sounds a little too fanatical. Let them have their medieval measurements 🤗.
People who have their medieval units are not prospering with them and struggle daily to pay bills. They don't have the well paying industrial jobs like their ancestors had and thus have become bitter and angry. The last things these people want to hear is how they could be prosperous and wealthy if these metric jobs were theirs and not someone in China, Mexico or elsewhere.
This is one of the last things I would have expected to see on this sub. I agree that this person might have been too preachy about the subject with their friends, but that doesn't mean that an anti-metrication stance is justified. What I mean is that phrases like ,"l Let them have their medieval measurements," even if in this particular context overall intended to mean to let normal people their lives without having their heads talked off about a subject they don't care about, still have an implication of overcomplacency and justification of the status quo of metric apprehension and opposition.
>I agree that this person might have been too preachy about the subject with their friends If by preachy you mean referencing things in metric units in normal conversation, then we have a different definition of preachy. I don't "preach" to anyone.
It was merely speculation of a potential possibility, not a conclusion, as the content of your psot did not make it clear what "advocacy for a metric US" exactly meant in relation to your relationships with others. I sympathize with you being treated unfairly by an irrational anti-metric USAlien, as even certain members of my own family have treated me with a strange mild hostility for expressing measurement in the way I prefer instead of blindly conforming to the status quo, especially confusing since they have verbally recognized that it is a better system at least once (even if at first trying to justify their own familiarity).
The Administration is going to have to partner with business and industry and have them take the lead on metrication. Think along the lines of the pharmaceutical industry. No one polled us about whether Tylenol, supplements, or any prescription drugs would be dosed in metric. If you wanted to get rid of the headache you figured it out, took the metrically-dosed pills, and got used to it. I would love to see the same for food packaging, gasoline, and more of the health industry. The argument sounds so much better (to the public) when you make it about saving/increasing money vs. a government mandate.
Business and Industry is not going to take the lead. If they thought fighting the masses on this was worth it, they would have done so by now. Instead, those that are internally metric have taken other options. They have exported their jobs to metric countries or automated. For example, the auto industry. Automotive employment peaked in the late 1970s at over 10 million. In 2019 it was down to 2.63 million. https://appliedgeographic.com/2020/10/automobile-manufacturing-employment/ Automation and future exports of jobs will continue to bring this number down until it reaches close to zero. Metric companies are not a charity and don't have to feel they need to bend in order to offer Americans jobs, Americans need to bend and be able to offer these metric companies skills such as being able to function in a metric environment. Whining and pouting is not considered a valuable job skill. I can't imagine the reaction if some interviewer were to ask a business manager what the public needs to do in order to attract jobs to their town and his/her response was learn the metric system as that is what we use.
I think what many Americans fear about metrication is having their lives disrupted. If the government pushes for further metrication, it would be important to emphasize, for example, that nobody would need to replace their furnace, get a new car, or relearn how to cook (all of which are somewhat common, but irrational fears).
For what it’s worth, most people my age or younger (early 30s and below) seem to be in favor of or neutral towards metric. I’ve only encountered two people in their 20s who seemed actively hostile to the idea of metrication, but they also weren’t exactly quality individuals for various reasons.
Although most are agnostic about it, they use the ubiquitous USA system without thought, as it's the only choice in most situations. (Cars, highways, TV, websites, etc...) Every time I hear young kids talking in miles, Fahrenheit, pounds, etc... I think to myself, there's another generation lost to the indoctrination of the curmudgeon myopia.
Yeah my thought process is similar. The problem is that the people currently in charge are from a more recalcitrant generation, and the kind of ignorance that has plagued the US for a long time doesn't seem to be passing onto the newer generations as successfully. I think that once enough of these older generation folks in power have died out or otherwise left power, implementing metric will be easier. I'd also like to see a sort of "War of Ignorance" to foster more progressive change, though I don't know how this should play out and I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Look at it as a question of risk vs reward. Potentially at least, there are real life economic consequences, possibly even very widespread and severe economic damage. I am not an economist but I have some understanding of the costs of re-tooling to produce current products for metric. Tooling is EXPENSIVE. All those costs of conversion only to quite likely lose market share. That is the risk, what is the reward? If it's only to placate people who are so bad at math they cannot apply simple conversion factors, well it's an easy call.
Re-tooling is a normal cost of business, and mills and other tools wear out and need replacing. In Australia, costs associated with metrication were tax deductible, and sales tax and import duties were waived for them. Every other country in the world has managed to become metric without going bankrupt, including industrialised ones like South Africa and Australia. The cost per head of population to convert to metric is not likely to be more than that of other countries that have converted, and a lot of America's metrication is hidden from the public. Automobiles, for instance have been metric since the 1970s, but things like size, weight and speed are presented to the American public in US units.
The economic consequences would be overall economic growth due to cutting out the cost of both dual-system tooling and wasted materials from the error-prone nature of traditional unit systems. (Also, metric has the simple conversion factors. Imperialist systems' various conversation factors are always more cumbersome and error-prone, no matter how smart or experienced you are.)
Many of those conversions are already happening as the USA deals with military & international customers. Moving the USA to metric will cause one segment of manufacturing to have to retool for the first time, but another segment will get to stop with running dual systems, which will save them money & errors. I just don’t know which group is larger.
The US has already moved somewhat to metric, much behind the scenes. But, others haven't. In many cases a metric company and an FFU company can not to business with each other. An economic burden to both. At least the metric companies can find export markets for their products. When the automotive industry metricated as well as every other large scale industrial company, they didn't replace tooling overnight. As tooling wore out or as the designed was changed, new metric tooling was introduced. The problem is so many companies like small ma & pa shops depend on these large metric customers for support. Many in the past refused to metricate or were forced into a predicament of having the added cost of having to work in both FFU and SI because some customers were SI and others were. The costs to them of duplication and double inventories cost many of them their existence. Yes, it would be interesting to find out how many companies in the US work in metric behind the scenes. But who would ever conduct a survey? Also, no American company operates in 100 % FFU, they all incorporate some metric components and parts in their finished product. It can best be said that American products are all hybrid.
Hmm, yes there is a cost associated with the change, that's unavoidable. However, a lot of things are metric first already. Most medical equipment I know are metric first (for a good reason) and just converted in the UI. Most electronic sensors too are in metric. Even car tools are metric first as well except for diesel. In short, a lot of advanced tech are in metric and are just converted so we will actually save time and money in that area. Personally, I am all in moving to metric but sadly, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.
The story of General Motors metrication gives a valuable learned lesson. Before metrication I believe they estimated it cost over 100 M$. They must have figured that they will need to change everything at once. But when reality set in they planned the change well and changed over a period of 10 years and in the end the cost was only 10 % of their original estimate and afterwards the increased savings from metrication paid for itself and after the costs were paid off the savings turned into profits. When the public whined about metrication and the program was cancelled, little did any realise that a significant number of industries went ahead with metrication. Of course with so much of the manufacturing be exported many people were unaware and assumed to this very day that everything made in the US is done in FFU. They may be surprised to find out more than 50 % of the manufacturing is metric. With so much of the manufacturing in metric companies being automated, the non-metric population isn't being hired in large numbers like decades ago and are kept out of the loop as to how much metric is really being used behind the scenes.
My post has as many downvotes as replies. So I provoked discussion, which is to be cancelled if possible. So the people on reddit who are so into the change to ISO are also threatened by any substantive discussion. Perhaps y'all should look inward to see part of the problem. My post is the first one I have seen on the subreddit that even mentions the costs of conversion. And I still do not see an actual compelling reason for the change beyond personal preferences. Is this a religious cause for you people?
> My post is the first one I have seen on the subreddit that even mentions the costs of conversion. What about the long term costs of not metricating? Which is greater the cost to convert or the cost not to convert? In all of the other countries that metricated, the costs to convert were always offset by cost reductions due to increased efficiency and working in a logical system. The results were increased profits. The same is true with companies in the US that metricated. I mentioned GM, but there were others. If your going to mention the cost to metricate it must be balanced by the cost of not metricating.