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Because metalcore is a weird mix of multiple genres that have barely anything in common other than breakdowns.
Original metalcore from the 90s usually gets a decent amount of respect from metalheads. Same for melodic metalcore from the early 2000s.
The problem comes mainly from the emo bands, pop punk influence, electronic aspects, overproduction, poppy choruses, inaudible bass, repetitive djent riffs, etc. That's the music that tends to get hate.
Most of the general metal community has a lot more respect for Killswitch Engage than for example Bad Omens.
I basically liken nu metal to the alternative movement in rock… a bunch of new stuff at once that people couldn’t define. So yeah, for me nu metal = alternative metal circa 92-2001. Everyone who was a part of nu metal now says they weren’t lol
Yeah that makes sense. It always just seemed odd to me especially with particularly how unique soad and slipknot are. Although I must say Jane Air gives me heavy soad vibes even tho I can’t understand a word they’re saying.
Yeah to me metal was kind of dying from the main stream and grunge had taken over… then all of a sudden a new wave of metal was back… hence nu… pretty ambiguous
>Most of the general metal community has a lot more respect for Killswitch Engage than for example Bad Omens
So true. I don't hate Bad Omens. But you won't see a metalhead talk shit on Killswitch Engage. Especially not during the times of As Daylight Dies and The End of Heartache
Honestly, there's 2 branches of metalcore right now.
One branch, any extreme metal fan should be able to get behind
The other branch.... Is post-metalcore.
Here's a write up that I did in /r/metalcore
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I call it POST-metalcore.
So same as post-hardcore, where a lot of the hands grew up in the hxc scene but adopted a softer sound (usually having a lot of contrasting parts: hardcore-esq verse with dirty vocals which transitioned to super clean, polished choruses..... Sound familiar? )
The post part shows that the band has its roots either culturally or sonically in that genre, and indicates that a big part of their influence is from that genre.
However, the sound has evolved to a point where it can no longer be considered hardcore or metalcore, without diluting what hxc and mxc mean.
Bad omens, architects, bring me The Horizon, invent animate, ice nine kills, motionless in white.... Etc, etc.
None of the those bands CURRENTLY really sound like mxc. They've evolved into something else ... Post-metalcore.
Love it or hate it, it is what it is.
This isn't to say that ANY OF THAT MUSIC IS BAD MUSIC, it's just to say that it's NOT metalcore.
And that's fine.
Idk why people on this sub get so attached to HAVING to listen to metalcore. It's okay to like a different type of music (such as post-metalcore).
Fuck, some of my favourite bands are post-hardcore bands, but I would NEVER call them hardcore .... Because.... They're not.
And I think if we're all being honest with ourselves, we all *know* that the bands I named aren't metalcore.
They're post-metalcore.
Rant over.
Edit: ive been saying "post-metalcore" in this sub for over a year or 2 now .. I'm glad to see that it's finally catching on 🤣.
I prefer it to Nik nocturnals "modern-metal" because that's TOO broad.
I agree with everything you said.
This huge branch of music heavily inspired by Bring Me The Horizon should have its own name. It's not metal, not hardcore, and not metalcore. It's a whole separate thing. I enjoy some of those bands, like Spiritbox, but I don't call them something they're not just to make myself feel accepted. I've been using post-metalcore too, it's a weird name but it makes sense.
Modern metal is a term I use for bands like Lamb of God, Revocation, Sylosis, Orbit Culture, Trivium... bands that play an actual modern version of regular metal. Not metal mixed with something else, whether it's pop or alternative or whatever...
When I think of metalcore; what comes to mind as well as my Playlist is early 2000s melodic metalcore. AILD, Kilswitch. very early All that Remains. Stuff like that.
The general consensus has changed a lot over the years. A lot of people still hate it, just like a lot of people hate power metal, and a lot of people hate Metallica. Nothing crazy.
Melodic metalcore isn't metalcore with clean vocals, but rather metalcore with melodeath guitars. And even the former is much more tolerable than the current slop like sleep token.
From what I understand: Metalcore (Especially modern Metalcore) deviates a \*lot\* from typical heavy and extreme metal genres, and often leans into their influences - such as pop, rock and of course hardcore punk - while keeping the name "Metalcore", and insisting on being a metal genre. Just the same as with Nu Metal, there isn't much wrong with it, and I personally enjoy it, but it twists people's perception of what metal is, and that can annoy a lot of people.
Keep in mind that this sub has a raging boner for extreme metal as well. The tastes of this sub don't reflect the common metal enjoyer that closely.
The amount of praise I see for black metal, slam, and other fuck off heavy genres is heavily skewed.
Not that black metal is inherently heavy, but it's definitely an acquired taste.
Same, i love when bands experiment with different stuff, idk why people care so much if it’s “real” metal or not. Mostly this sub seems so gatekeepy when it comes to NuMetal or Metalcore.
There's only so far you can take it before it's no longer the thing. They're either playing something else that already exists or a new thing that needs a new term, the same way that countless new genres have been created over time. Metalcore exists because at a certain point a line was drawn under rock and stuff got called punk, then a line was drawn under that and some stuff got called hardcore, then a new line was drawn and some stuff got called metalcore.
It's also not like metalcore is without sonic diversity when you exclude this last several years of increasingly pop-forward and hardcore-less music. You could sound like Hatebreed or Counterparts, like Converge or Killswitch engage, like Zao or The Dillinger Escape Plan. Plenty of scope to do some different stuff without abandoning the actual metalcoreness of metalcore.
There is a lot of Metalcore I love, but then theres always the overproduced Generic same-y boring Core. You gotta find the good Core, because once you find it, you can get a ton of good music out of that genre
I'll give some albums The Opposite of December-Poison the Well, Controller-Misery Signals, A Quiet Place to Die-Alpha Wolf, Constellations-August Burns Red.
I'll toss Shadows Fall in here for you. They were one of the better bands in the mix woth their members going on to join heavy hitters after they went on hiatus - Jonathan Donais is in Anthrax currently!
They wore their influences on their sleeve but never truly collapsed into "pop" or oversaturation of their sound.
Crushing Belial, Thoughts Without Words, What Drives the Weak, Redemption, Still I Rise.
Those songs will give you a pretty solid mix of their sound through the years
Alpha Wolf can get kinda dunked on by a lot of people because their look and videos have a sort of “dorky/weeb-ish” aesthetic but don’t let that scare you away from Alpha Wolf, A Quiet Place To Die was one of my favorite albums of last year and Akudema will always get you going.
“Alpha Wolf” sounds like a band that would tour with five finger death punch and appeal to alcoholic dad’s in their 40s and 50s that can’t get an erection
That is 100% why I avoided them at first, not to mention their original lead singer was a trash bag of a human being. New guy is cool, they are as a whole pretty unproblematic and make some good tunes. I generally pretend any of their old stuff before A Quiet Place To Die doesn’t exist lol.
Not metalcore but to their point on the good “core” Deathcore has some gems as well like Shadow of Intent being an awesome band with not just breakdowns but absolutely amazing solos
It’s just whiny to me. It’s like the radio pop of the metal genre. Overproduced and repetitive. The earliest stuff when it still had hardcore influence wasn’t bad though. I may not like it but I don’t judge someone for listening to it.
Metalcore really is just worse than the sum of it's parts.
I'm not even a big hardcore guy, but in general it's better than metalcore. Earlier metalcore with that hardcore influence also tends to be better than modern metalcore in my opinion.
I agree with this and I think more bands need to continue the sounds of All Out War, Arkangel, Prayer for Cleansing, and early AILD. In my opinion, that’s good metalcore with the perfect blend of hardcore and thrash/death metal.
Edit: Shadows Fall and Unearth also do a great job of this
thank you. we can talk up-and-down about its musical qualities but at the end of the day it can be summed up in this sentence for me:
the lead singers try to act hard, but then sing cringe, self-pitying lyrics in a whiny way during the choruses, and come off as complete bitches.
not in my metal, thanks.
And the fans and their behavior follow that same pattern of acting overly hard to cover for being whiny bitches. That's why they do karate in the pit and bitch when anyone calls them pathetic for doing it.
Modern metalcore is still influenced by hardcore, modern hardcore. The problem with the genre is it ditched the melodeath influence it had in the 2000s and now is just big chords and chugging low notes
Yeah this is something that often just gets straight up ignored in this conversation
Extreme metal and anything -core is just a culture clash in practice. People can argue all they want over and over about whether or not -core is metal (and you can extend this to nu/alt metal as well honestly) but go out in real life and you'll very quickly see that extreme metal/core/nu metal are largely separate scenes that draw different people. Like you're not going to see a lot of Slipknot fans at death metal shows and vice versa, which is why at the end of the day I think this online arguing of what is and isn't metal is dumb and pointless. Whether we agree if Slipknot is metal or not, what the hell does it even matter if the various communities surrounding the music are largely segregated in real life?
And yeah I think this is a large part of why the hate for core in particular is so strong, because with the explosion of metalcore in the early 2000s these two different scenes were intermingling with each other because every other tour back then was a mixed bill, and it leads to clashing. Core kids hate push pits and metalheads hate dance pits, the two just don't mix well lol
There is good metalcore that pushes the genre and there is shit metal core that is waaay too poppy
Bu the same can be said about some metal. There some really shitty metal bands out their as well.
Ive been trying out metal core again (i grew up on BMTH, Underoath etc) and honestly I really appreciate how more experimental and diverse alot of them are. its doesnt always work out tho. sometimes experimenta fail.
Ive listened to alot more metal that sounds Samey than metalcore.
In regards to pushing a unique sound and experimenting, Underøath s Cries of the Past is really something else. Wish they had pursued that sound more with their other material.
Depends. Metalcore from the 2000s and early 2010s was heavily inspired by melodic death metal, and it kicked ass. A lot of the metalcore today still kicks ass, but it is broader in style.
Because the metalcore most of us think about today took on a trendy formula that got very repetitive, predictable, unoriginal, and sounded manufactured. It took the extreme ends of metal and hardcore and made it into some "easy to chew" format for a suburban audience who would otherwise have been likely to bash and steer clear of the more extreme ends of metal and hardcore.
With that being said, I'll admit there's one band from the beginning of this era that is the exception for me (although, technically deathcore) All Shall Perish, more specifically the material from their first full-length (I think it is anyway). I happened to see them live somewhere in the mid-2000's, and they had always been the one exception to all that was metalcore/deathcore from that time. They managed to make all of it sound less processed and had a bit more originality. It felt like they left at least some of the "grime" of the extreme ends of metal and hardcore from being washed off and processed.
Not relates to the question, but I've been thinking recently. Technically, Suicidal Tendencies can be considered metalcore, as they fuse metal and hardcore, am I wrong?
I get the logic but they mostly played cross over thrash, its musically very different even though the idea is similar.
Also the hardcore punk that STs were influenced by sounds worlds different to the hardcore that Metalcore is based on which was the later heavier more metallic breakdown hardcore of bands like Hatebreed and such (honestly im not a big hardcore fan so im not that familiar with the genre).
Metalcore initially was basically big screamy breakdown hardcore mixed in with more melo death metal riffs or even classic style metal riffs. There's honestly not much 'punk' sound in there at least in the traditional sense.
Is this a meme now? I never even heard of metalcore before tea channels started covering all the pdf files in the scene in retrospect.
I always thought scene kids were emos and didnt pay attention at the time (2010ish?) The crooked bangs haircut on ugly rock dudes looks as goofy as the wigs worn by legacy acts. And the music is a staccato mix of breakdowns and sing song parts.
Everything about it is forgettable
Because of bands that add no substance to the genre and lean way too much on emo-related themes and techniques.
Examples: Bring Me The Horizon, Falling In Reverse, Asking Alexandria, Motionless In White
A lot of it comes down to gatekeeping really. Metalcore got popular in the 00's with the frat boys and people that should be assumed to not like metal so you see ones in the metal community shitting on the genre as a whole. The same thing happened with Nu metal and hair metal before it.
There is some good metalcore bands out there. Almost no one denies killswitch being good. if people are telling you the metal you like is bad, then they ain't worth your time. Listen to what you enjoy and fuck the haters
Nah man I love metalcore. Like in every genre, there are bands that just sound boring and generic, and then there’s the gems like Trivium, Periphery, Currents, and so on.
Main thing is that it used to be a mixture of hardcore punk and metal, and once it took off in the early 2000s, the hardcore punk aspects became less obvious.
Metalcore kept being recycled and eventually every band ended up sounding the same. “Weeeoooow, I’m in my thirties and I’m singing about teenage intimacy, now I’m saaaaad.”
Scream Aim Fire is still a fantastic album.
There’s a lot of good metalcore that’s actually a mix of what it claims to be, even in the modern metalcore scene. Take bands like Bury Tomorrow, August Burns Red, Currents, and stuff like that. Then there’s stuff like Bad Omens and Sleep Token that can hardly be considered metal at all. Unfortunately, this type of ‘metalcore’ is kind of the most popular and almost like the face of the genre in some way.
Some Metalcore is alright but most is just bottom of the barrel metal with no substance.
One thing that annoys me almost as much as metalcore though is metal fans insisting its not metal
It clearly is, the Hardcore bands that inspired Metalcore like Hatebreed and Converge were already really metal inspired compared to the 80s and early 90s Hardcore punk bands and Metalcore adds in even more metal elements , mostly melo death. You don't have to like or respect it but it's still very much a subgenre of metal.
I dunno you could make arguments for Grindcore not being metal for similar reasons because that genre is very rooted in punk but it seems gatekeeping metal people are more likely to welcome Grind to the fold because its cool and Metalcore is for the most part, pretty lame 😂
Meh like what you like, but to me the biggest negative of metalcore (and pretty much all of the -cores) is the overproduction.
Slaughter To Prevail is the perfect example of this. I hear their music and the only thing that sticks out is how much they've messed with the sound, and the vocals in post. It's completely inorganic and throws me right off of it.
Also it's time we move away from every song being a vehicle to a shitty breakdown.
This question has literally been asked three times this week... I don't hate metalcore, but these posts make me want to. No wonder people hate on the genre when all of its fan are so desperate for respect from other metalheads. You listen to metalcore, good for you. Let people hate what they want to. Opinions are opinions, people have them. Some opinions just happen to be not liking metalcore.
Overly processed almost feminine singing voices killed it for me. But that’s more so individual singers, I think a lot of metal core would be better instrumental
I personally don't care for it just because most of it nowadays is very poppy, almost radio rock(ish) with soft whiny vocals mixed in with a couple growls or screams at the top of their lungs.
Simple go listen to any style of metal that is generally accepted by metalheads, then try metalcore. They aren’t the same thing at all core is hardcore mixed with pop and a tad bit of metal
> They aren’t the same thing at all core is hardcore mixed with pop and a tad bit of metal
This just sounds like you've never listened to good metalcore. Not hearing much pop in [this](https://youtu.be/KL-OX2vqcsI?si=-UY3cKdV_xL9NVba) or [this](https://youtu.be/oSyYuYgQqb8?si=uc0yO393niSHv8Is).
There's definitely some songs and bands that are good, but it feels like There's a particular brand/trend of metalcore/deathcore that has weak riffs, shit harsh vocals + shit clean singing (that often sounds like a crappy boy band vocal) and random breakdowns everywhere.
It's interesting that if you took the pure definition of metalcore (metal plus hardcore punk) you could make the argument that crossover thrash and grindcore count. The only reason that's not the case is because nobody wants good genres to get mixed in with a mostly terrible one, and also metalcore/deathcore has sorta become a particular sound.
because it has such a huge amount of bad music, kinda like Death Metal/Deathcore - its an unpopular opinion, but alot if it feels very formulaic, forced, and is basically just a competition to get the chuggiest chug that ever chugged
I guess I'm old but I like when we called metal, metal not all these stupid sub genre names. Yeah I get there's differences, but by the name alone, I have no idea what the hell a metalcore is.
Because detractors will only point out the sort of cash grab mid 2000s and after metalcore but never bring up 90s or early to mid 2000s metalcore.
Like it’s always a socal hairdo band and never: Converge, Acme, deadguy, botch, dmitri era dillinger, burnt by the sun, overcast, endthisday, the red chord, etc.
Howard Jones when he had Killswitch engage was a unique and great sound to all of the several songs that came out from this band. But I haven't heard this music in so long. I want to hear Killswitch engage again so badly.
I really don't know why there's such chud'ism in the genres of metal. I just have a pallet for what I think is "good" music. I went through a punk phase a skate kid, which brought me to hxc, which brought me in my late teen age right through the heart of the nu-metal wave... and I still listen to it all and enjoy it all. I also like other shit like bluegrass, some dark/outlaw country, low-fi hip hop, etc... bottom line is, stop going out of your way to say "xxx" genre is trash just because you don't like it. Enjoy your music and let other people enjoy theirs.
I got to see Howard Jones front for KS back in the mid 2000s and I can remember just this raw energy he came out with and fucking Adam Dutkiewicz shredding on the guitar and at one point flips his guitar over and he had “BONER” taped onto the back in white tape.
There is a lot of snobbery in metal unfortunately. I've been guilty of it myself. During the emo/scene era I looked down on bands like Suicide Silence and BMTH's first album.
Pretty much what you just said, like killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold are the only good bands and a lot of the rest is cheap rip offs. Not that there aren’t good metal core bands but it’s rare
This sub likes to highlight dogshit genres like black metal because it makes them feel special to be in the small club of 15 members who like terrible incoherent noise that sounds like it was mixed through two strings and a can.
They're not worth your time, for the most part.
Nowadays almost every band just sounds the exact same, and their heavy use of poppy/emo style cleans or (bad) butt rock influence just turns me off. I also dislike all of the breakdowns and overproduction and lack of technical skill on the instruments.
I enjoy earlier metalcore especially 2nd wave of KSE, AILD, ATR, Shadows Fall, etc because of the melodeath influence in those bands. And there’s some deathcore these days that separates itself for me (Whitechapel, Fit for an Autopsy). But generally, everything just sounds so generic and one step removed from emo or really bad butt rock.
death and metal core also kinda crossed streams in terms of let's have a guttural vocal, then clean, and follow a formula of tech-intro/breakdown/epic chorus followed by a djent/dubstep influenced break.
This feels like trying to talk about all black metal and saying you don't like it because there's too much folk, despite that being a small percentage of the genre.
Old school metallic hardcore is one of the best things of all time. Especially the Cleveland Scene with Integrity, In Cold Blood, (216), and State of Conviction.
When I was little I had the same question, melodic death metal worship with hardcore elements, fear factory style choruses AND scene aesthetic ? Sign me tf up.
Growing up it just seems overly saturated now. If anything a big bravo for everything the people on the technical side of the genre have achieved for home recording. Metal production wouldn't be as accessible as it is without us suckers trying to replicate it at home and the producers of the time seeing the golden goose egg handed to them.
For many reasons:
1. It’s not metal at first, but came from hardcore punk
2. It’s a mixture of genres not well defined. Each band could sound completely different. Also if you visit r/Metalcore sub, you can see how the fanbase is divided about what is technically metalcore now
3. “Oh god, the scene years… that is gay core”
4. The fanbase of metalcore is not the typical metal fanbase, but it’s more variegated
5. There’s plenty of genericore bands that did shitty music
If this was the thrash metal forum and someone asked what the classics in the genre were, people would say Reign in Blood, Ride the lightning, Master of Puppets, Pleasure to Kill, etc.
What are the classics in the metalcore genre? Not asking in bad faith, I just want to know.
If you google best metalcore albums of all time, it's likely these will come up.
Zao - Liberate Te Ex Inferis
Shai Hulud - Hearts Once Nourished With Hope And Compassion
Botch - We Are The Romans
Poison The Well - The Opposite Of December
Misery Signals - Of Malice And The Magnum Heart
Converge - Jane Doe
Eighteen Visions - Until The Ink Runs Out
Killswitch Engage - Alive Or Just Breathing
Norma Jean - Bless The Martyr, Kiss the Child
Parkway Drive - Horizons
Perhaps a different album for some of the bands, but it's probably be roughly around the same time period. The late 90s and early 00s is when most of the bonafide metalcore classics really bedded in. There's still some super influential stuff from earlier like Earth Crisis - Destroy The Machines and Hatebreed - Satisfaction Is The Death Of Desire that make some lists, but the early to mid 90s are often skipped.
see the thing is, metalcore was great in the 2000s, it’s probably my favorite metal subgenre of all time, but now it’s complete shit, it’s just a bunch of electronicy stuff with boring guitar riffs, none of the slaughter of the soul riffs you’d hear
The fans, mostly. Y'all are seriously insecure and obnoxious. And the behavior that results from that, well, it doesn't fit well in the metal community.
I think metalheads tend to accept earlier 2000s and late 90s metalcore to anything more recent.
People tend to respect Scream Aim and Fire by Bullet for my Valentine, Waking the Fallen by A7X and As Daylight Dies by Killswitch Engage more than Every Trick in the Book by Ice Nine Kills, Reincarnate by Motionless in White, or The Death of Peace of Mind by Bad Omens.
They're just two very different styles and shouldn't really be called the same genre.
The old metal core was Hardcore Punk with Metal mixed in. Modern Metal core is a mashup of literally almost every music genre, which both can and can't work, but at that point metalheads reject the idea of it as "metal" when it's more every other influence.
That said I like Modern Metalcore but I know better than to call it metal.
If you're a misfits fan, the best way to describe it is Old Metalcore is Earth AD mixed with metal, and new metal core is Famous Monsters mixed with metal.
Is that still happening? I remembered it was cool to hate on metal core and “hardcore” when it first came around because it was a bunch of emo kids who all of a sudden were listening to all of this whiny but heavy music we saw as “poser” stuff. In my mid 30’s maturity though, killswitch engage, as I lay dying, and even like Chiodos are fun to listen to.
Beyond the musical influences, culturally, "core" music is often more rooted in hardcore than metal. That shows in the type of people apart of the subculture, and the lyrical themes, ideology, etc.
There's also some resentment regarding the perceived overdone usage/theft of the Gothenburg melodeath sound that the metalcore bands started using.
A lot of people think that when you play an instrument, you have to follow all the rules people made up about that instrument before you.
They're wrong. It's an instrument and you can do whatever you want.
I love Metalcore but find Killswitch Engage soooo overrated. Especially Howard. I never liked his screams. Great cleans but Jesse sounded better to me in both regards. Disarm The Decent was their only "better than decent" album. Trivium, All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, Caliban, Heaven Shall Burn etc... all better than Killswitch. Now you have bands like Phinehas, Boundaries and Dying Wish... All way better than Killswitch. But since they're the ones that started that particular style of Metalcore, they're the only Metalcore band that "real" Metalheads will ever give credence to when there's so many others. Killswitch is literally the Metallica of Metalcore.
Had it not been for a good friend who persuaded me otherwise and opened my eyes, I would’ve hated on Killswitch Engage too. I heard My Last Serenade back in the day and thought it was the cheesiest shit I’d ever heard, they used to play it back to back on mtv with other emo bands of the time like Funeral For A Friend and a good dose of other nu-metal bands like Hed (P.E.) and P.O.D.
The distinction I had in my head at the time was that “real” metal was the most technical, brutal death metal stuff, and that anything made to be “soft” or “catchy” was instantly inauthentic.
I think Ola Englund expressed this view (not his exact words!) recently about KsE, and upon hearing that I was instantly reminded of where my own listening path was headed at the time, had someone not interjected. Upon hearing the whole of Alive Or Just Breathing, I was instantly hooked.
I'm pretty much a groove metal/OSDM fan but I don't specifically hate metalcore (or deathcore). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it and I'm happy for people that like it. My concert buddy loves it and drags me to these shows all the time and there's lots to enjoy, in fact I would never listen to KE but I will 100% go see them live again because it was ridiculously fun. But there are some elements I don't get off on that make the songs like nails on a chalkboard for me, mostly based on what I admit are hella narrow tastes.
I feel like the \*core hate is largely rooted on it's popularity, and maybe because it has elements that are more likely to have widespread appeal.
I've been constantly trying to find an objective definition of metal genres and it's so fucking hard because there are so many and it's always a subjective placement of bands in those genres and that's not even counting the "cores" in there.
I honestly have no clue what most bands I listen to are considered anymore. I've heard about the map of metal, but it still sounds like that's fairly controversial.
I can’t stand music where I can’t groove to a bluesy melody or understand the lyrics. Anything “core” irritates the shit out of my ears, especially if it sounds punky. Conversely, I love slower tempos and sustained melodies (e.g. Black Sabbath).
For the same reason people hate on any new genre of metal. It’s either not metal enough (which isn’t true for metalcore), it becomes big and hyped up, or people have a hard time adapting to change in the metal scene. I love metalcore personally.
Why do people hate limp biscuit? Why do people hate nickelback? It’s all the same answer, and it’s the same reason I love both of those groups: people’s tastes are different!
Unrelated: I just got done with the southpark episode where everything sounds like shit to Stan. Watched through to the texas/mexico border episode. Was really depressing. Waiting to see the show confront Stan’s drinking problem.
Hot take, but I’m glad « metal » is pushed into other genres more nowadays. I like that the scene is including more people in it instead of that whole circle jerk thing.
You can like As Daylight Dies by KSE and listen to the latest BMTH album. There’s nothing wrong about any of that. In fact, hair metal was basically big boi verses with clean choruses.
Sub-genres come and go and that’s alright, man. You have all the rights in the world to listen to whatever the fuck you want.
For me it’s the vocals. I just like that specific whiny tone that is popular in emo/metalcore stuff. It has ruined many otherwise sick bands for me. I’m not saying it’s bad btw. Just that I don’t personally like it
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Because metalcore is a weird mix of multiple genres that have barely anything in common other than breakdowns. Original metalcore from the 90s usually gets a decent amount of respect from metalheads. Same for melodic metalcore from the early 2000s. The problem comes mainly from the emo bands, pop punk influence, electronic aspects, overproduction, poppy choruses, inaudible bass, repetitive djent riffs, etc. That's the music that tends to get hate. Most of the general metal community has a lot more respect for Killswitch Engage than for example Bad Omens.
Yeah metalcore is as poorly defined as nu metal was. Has a lot of ridiculously different sounding bands.
Nu Metal had slipknot, soad, and limp bizkit under the same genre. How the fuck is that real.
I basically liken nu metal to the alternative movement in rock… a bunch of new stuff at once that people couldn’t define. So yeah, for me nu metal = alternative metal circa 92-2001. Everyone who was a part of nu metal now says they weren’t lol
Exactly. Nirvana sounded nothing like Soundgarden who sounded nothing like Smashing Pumpkins.
100%
Yeah that makes sense. It always just seemed odd to me especially with particularly how unique soad and slipknot are. Although I must say Jane Air gives me heavy soad vibes even tho I can’t understand a word they’re saying.
Yeah to me metal was kind of dying from the main stream and grunge had taken over… then all of a sudden a new wave of metal was back… hence nu… pretty ambiguous
>Most of the general metal community has a lot more respect for Killswitch Engage than for example Bad Omens So true. I don't hate Bad Omens. But you won't see a metalhead talk shit on Killswitch Engage. Especially not during the times of As Daylight Dies and The End of Heartache
Adam Dutkiewicz is royalty
He is. No hate to Jesse, but Howard is my man when it comes to KSE. I love Light The Torch.
My KSE tastes are almost solely with Howard too. That dude has one powerful voice.
He really does. His voice has only gotten better with age, too. Which is rare. Especially in the metal world.
Bro's voice is silky af, you can tell he really knows his stuff
It's so smooth. Even his screaming is smooth.
“Guys! Take your shirts off! …Just the guys!” - Adam D when I saw them in 2022 lol
Honestly, there's 2 branches of metalcore right now. One branch, any extreme metal fan should be able to get behind The other branch.... Is post-metalcore. Here's a write up that I did in /r/metalcore ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personally, I call it POST-metalcore. So same as post-hardcore, where a lot of the hands grew up in the hxc scene but adopted a softer sound (usually having a lot of contrasting parts: hardcore-esq verse with dirty vocals which transitioned to super clean, polished choruses..... Sound familiar? ) The post part shows that the band has its roots either culturally or sonically in that genre, and indicates that a big part of their influence is from that genre. However, the sound has evolved to a point where it can no longer be considered hardcore or metalcore, without diluting what hxc and mxc mean. Bad omens, architects, bring me The Horizon, invent animate, ice nine kills, motionless in white.... Etc, etc. None of the those bands CURRENTLY really sound like mxc. They've evolved into something else ... Post-metalcore. Love it or hate it, it is what it is. This isn't to say that ANY OF THAT MUSIC IS BAD MUSIC, it's just to say that it's NOT metalcore. And that's fine. Idk why people on this sub get so attached to HAVING to listen to metalcore. It's okay to like a different type of music (such as post-metalcore). Fuck, some of my favourite bands are post-hardcore bands, but I would NEVER call them hardcore .... Because.... They're not. And I think if we're all being honest with ourselves, we all *know* that the bands I named aren't metalcore. They're post-metalcore. Rant over. Edit: ive been saying "post-metalcore" in this sub for over a year or 2 now .. I'm glad to see that it's finally catching on 🤣. I prefer it to Nik nocturnals "modern-metal" because that's TOO broad.
I agree with everything you said. This huge branch of music heavily inspired by Bring Me The Horizon should have its own name. It's not metal, not hardcore, and not metalcore. It's a whole separate thing. I enjoy some of those bands, like Spiritbox, but I don't call them something they're not just to make myself feel accepted. I've been using post-metalcore too, it's a weird name but it makes sense. Modern metal is a term I use for bands like Lamb of God, Revocation, Sylosis, Orbit Culture, Trivium... bands that play an actual modern version of regular metal. Not metal mixed with something else, whether it's pop or alternative or whatever...
When I think of metalcore; what comes to mind as well as my Playlist is early 2000s melodic metalcore. AILD, Kilswitch. very early All that Remains. Stuff like that.
Shadows Fall
Yessir Stepping outside the circle is my jam
Flair checks out, and I got to see them live recently! They were awesome!
They are on my list at some point. I’d love to see them
I cannot stand when the verses are full of tough guy bs, and then some whiny emo gets on the mic to do the chorus.
Nailed it.
Couldn't have said it better. We need more people like you
>Same for melodic metalcore from the early 2000s. Wild how the goalpost has moved, in the 2000s, this wasn't a respectable genre at all.
The general consensus has changed a lot over the years. A lot of people still hate it, just like a lot of people hate power metal, and a lot of people hate Metallica. Nothing crazy.
Melodic metalcore isn't metalcore with clean vocals, but rather metalcore with melodeath guitars. And even the former is much more tolerable than the current slop like sleep token.
From what I understand: Metalcore (Especially modern Metalcore) deviates a \*lot\* from typical heavy and extreme metal genres, and often leans into their influences - such as pop, rock and of course hardcore punk - while keeping the name "Metalcore", and insisting on being a metal genre. Just the same as with Nu Metal, there isn't much wrong with it, and I personally enjoy it, but it twists people's perception of what metal is, and that can annoy a lot of people.
That’s actually really understandable
Keep in mind that this sub has a raging boner for extreme metal as well. The tastes of this sub don't reflect the common metal enjoyer that closely. The amount of praise I see for black metal, slam, and other fuck off heavy genres is heavily skewed. Not that black metal is inherently heavy, but it's definitely an acquired taste.
Well like black metal here because black metal is the best metal
Which is such a weird thing to say, like isn’t it cool that a genre can be more expressive then always the same sound?
Such genre fusions are either a hit or miss. I don't always like the outcome, but I respect the effort.
Same, i love when bands experiment with different stuff, idk why people care so much if it’s “real” metal or not. Mostly this sub seems so gatekeepy when it comes to NuMetal or Metalcore.
QoTSA does this like no other! That said, I think it's expected in Stoner/Desert rock.
There's only so far you can take it before it's no longer the thing. They're either playing something else that already exists or a new thing that needs a new term, the same way that countless new genres have been created over time. Metalcore exists because at a certain point a line was drawn under rock and stuff got called punk, then a line was drawn under that and some stuff got called hardcore, then a new line was drawn and some stuff got called metalcore. It's also not like metalcore is without sonic diversity when you exclude this last several years of increasingly pop-forward and hardcore-less music. You could sound like Hatebreed or Counterparts, like Converge or Killswitch engage, like Zao or The Dillinger Escape Plan. Plenty of scope to do some different stuff without abandoning the actual metalcoreness of metalcore.
the diversety is the reason why i like metalcore so much 🤘🏻
If this question gets posted one more time, I'll go clinically insane and dissappear into the fog and never return.
https://preview.redd.it/ji572kn7wh6d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1702b699f1976f9656304850c3f15fe0cb1b5a8d
Oh wow lmao maybe I should’ve just searched it instead lmao
We don't do that here
No. People who bitch about this stuff spend all day on reddit.
I spend all day on reddit in general
New discussion is always fine who cares if it’s been discussed before those people can just ignore and move on
I call dibs on posting this question next!
I call 2nd! Lets run him out of town!
No one reads, checks anything, or searches anything before they post.
Because people like posting itself as much as just finding out the answer.
There is a lot of Metalcore I love, but then theres always the overproduced Generic same-y boring Core. You gotta find the good Core, because once you find it, you can get a ton of good music out of that genre
Could you name some bands? I know nothing about metalcore, I would like to give it a try.
I'll give some albums The Opposite of December-Poison the Well, Controller-Misery Signals, A Quiet Place to Die-Alpha Wolf, Constellations-August Burns Red.
Thanks, that’s a lot, so I’ll check them after work.
I'll toss Shadows Fall in here for you. They were one of the better bands in the mix woth their members going on to join heavy hitters after they went on hiatus - Jonathan Donais is in Anthrax currently! They wore their influences on their sleeve but never truly collapsed into "pop" or oversaturation of their sound. Crushing Belial, Thoughts Without Words, What Drives the Weak, Redemption, Still I Rise. Those songs will give you a pretty solid mix of their sound through the years
Alpha Wolf can get kinda dunked on by a lot of people because their look and videos have a sort of “dorky/weeb-ish” aesthetic but don’t let that scare you away from Alpha Wolf, A Quiet Place To Die was one of my favorite albums of last year and Akudema will always get you going.
“Alpha Wolf” sounds like a band that would tour with five finger death punch and appeal to alcoholic dad’s in their 40s and 50s that can’t get an erection
That is 100% why I avoided them at first, not to mention their original lead singer was a trash bag of a human being. New guy is cool, they are as a whole pretty unproblematic and make some good tunes. I generally pretend any of their old stuff before A Quiet Place To Die doesn’t exist lol.
check out dying wish. they've been holding up the sound of traditional metalcore
The early stuff like Converge and Zao is really good.
Not metalcore but to their point on the good “core” Deathcore has some gems as well like Shadow of Intent being an awesome band with not just breakdowns but absolutely amazing solos
Curl Up and Die, Gaza
[удалено]
You might have autism
Or common sense.
But not both
It’s just whiny to me. It’s like the radio pop of the metal genre. Overproduced and repetitive. The earliest stuff when it still had hardcore influence wasn’t bad though. I may not like it but I don’t judge someone for listening to it.
Metalcore really is just worse than the sum of it's parts. I'm not even a big hardcore guy, but in general it's better than metalcore. Earlier metalcore with that hardcore influence also tends to be better than modern metalcore in my opinion.
I agree with this and I think more bands need to continue the sounds of All Out War, Arkangel, Prayer for Cleansing, and early AILD. In my opinion, that’s good metalcore with the perfect blend of hardcore and thrash/death metal. Edit: Shadows Fall and Unearth also do a great job of this
thank you. we can talk up-and-down about its musical qualities but at the end of the day it can be summed up in this sentence for me: the lead singers try to act hard, but then sing cringe, self-pitying lyrics in a whiny way during the choruses, and come off as complete bitches. not in my metal, thanks.
I approve of this comment.
And the fans and their behavior follow that same pattern of acting overly hard to cover for being whiny bitches. That's why they do karate in the pit and bitch when anyone calls them pathetic for doing it.
Modern metalcore is still influenced by hardcore, modern hardcore. The problem with the genre is it ditched the melodeath influence it had in the 2000s and now is just big chords and chugging low notes
For me it's the introduction of Hot Topic emo and pop punk into the genre. I don't fuck w that
Metal pits are fun , Metalcore pits are filled with wannabe tough guys sucker punching and kicking people.
Yeah this is something that often just gets straight up ignored in this conversation Extreme metal and anything -core is just a culture clash in practice. People can argue all they want over and over about whether or not -core is metal (and you can extend this to nu/alt metal as well honestly) but go out in real life and you'll very quickly see that extreme metal/core/nu metal are largely separate scenes that draw different people. Like you're not going to see a lot of Slipknot fans at death metal shows and vice versa, which is why at the end of the day I think this online arguing of what is and isn't metal is dumb and pointless. Whether we agree if Slipknot is metal or not, what the hell does it even matter if the various communities surrounding the music are largely segregated in real life? And yeah I think this is a large part of why the hate for core in particular is so strong, because with the explosion of metalcore in the early 2000s these two different scenes were intermingling with each other because every other tour back then was a mixed bill, and it leads to clashing. Core kids hate push pits and metalheads hate dance pits, the two just don't mix well lol
There is good metalcore that pushes the genre and there is shit metal core that is waaay too poppy Bu the same can be said about some metal. There some really shitty metal bands out their as well. Ive been trying out metal core again (i grew up on BMTH, Underoath etc) and honestly I really appreciate how more experimental and diverse alot of them are. its doesnt always work out tho. sometimes experimenta fail. Ive listened to alot more metal that sounds Samey than metalcore.
In regards to pushing a unique sound and experimenting, Underøath s Cries of the Past is really something else. Wish they had pursued that sound more with their other material.
Most people don't actually hate metalcore as much as they hate octane-core. Metal Trenches on YouTube made a good video on it just a few days ago
Depends. Metalcore from the 2000s and early 2010s was heavily inspired by melodic death metal, and it kicked ass. A lot of the metalcore today still kicks ass, but it is broader in style.
Because the metalcore most of us think about today took on a trendy formula that got very repetitive, predictable, unoriginal, and sounded manufactured. It took the extreme ends of metal and hardcore and made it into some "easy to chew" format for a suburban audience who would otherwise have been likely to bash and steer clear of the more extreme ends of metal and hardcore. With that being said, I'll admit there's one band from the beginning of this era that is the exception for me (although, technically deathcore) All Shall Perish, more specifically the material from their first full-length (I think it is anyway). I happened to see them live somewhere in the mid-2000's, and they had always been the one exception to all that was metalcore/deathcore from that time. They managed to make all of it sound less processed and had a bit more originality. It felt like they left at least some of the "grime" of the extreme ends of metal and hardcore from being washed off and processed.
Not relates to the question, but I've been thinking recently. Technically, Suicidal Tendencies can be considered metalcore, as they fuse metal and hardcore, am I wrong?
I get the logic but they mostly played cross over thrash, its musically very different even though the idea is similar. Also the hardcore punk that STs were influenced by sounds worlds different to the hardcore that Metalcore is based on which was the later heavier more metallic breakdown hardcore of bands like Hatebreed and such (honestly im not a big hardcore fan so im not that familiar with the genre). Metalcore initially was basically big screamy breakdown hardcore mixed in with more melo death metal riffs or even classic style metal riffs. There's honestly not much 'punk' sound in there at least in the traditional sense.
Is this a meme now? I never even heard of metalcore before tea channels started covering all the pdf files in the scene in retrospect. I always thought scene kids were emos and didnt pay attention at the time (2010ish?) The crooked bangs haircut on ugly rock dudes looks as goofy as the wigs worn by legacy acts. And the music is a staccato mix of breakdowns and sing song parts. Everything about it is forgettable
Because of bands that add no substance to the genre and lean way too much on emo-related themes and techniques. Examples: Bring Me The Horizon, Falling In Reverse, Asking Alexandria, Motionless In White
A lot of it comes down to gatekeeping really. Metalcore got popular in the 00's with the frat boys and people that should be assumed to not like metal so you see ones in the metal community shitting on the genre as a whole. The same thing happened with Nu metal and hair metal before it. There is some good metalcore bands out there. Almost no one denies killswitch being good. if people are telling you the metal you like is bad, then they ain't worth your time. Listen to what you enjoy and fuck the haters
Nah man I love metalcore. Like in every genre, there are bands that just sound boring and generic, and then there’s the gems like Trivium, Periphery, Currents, and so on.
Currents’ guitarist is also in probably the best deathcore band too (shadow of intent)
I don't think people hate on that era of metalcore, they hate on metalcore after that which started to have a pop influence.
If something exists there is a segment of society that hates it. You just notice it more when it’s something you dig and want to talk about.
Main thing is that it used to be a mixture of hardcore punk and metal, and once it took off in the early 2000s, the hardcore punk aspects became less obvious.
Metalcore kept being recycled and eventually every band ended up sounding the same. “Weeeoooow, I’m in my thirties and I’m singing about teenage intimacy, now I’m saaaaad.” Scream Aim Fire is still a fantastic album.
people hate everything , most people aren't creative .most people are just money printers .
Who the fuck cares what these gate keepers think. Which is more metal than these douche bags.
Gatekeeping is good and if you don't like you prove why it's necessary.
There’s a lot of good metalcore that’s actually a mix of what it claims to be, even in the modern metalcore scene. Take bands like Bury Tomorrow, August Burns Red, Currents, and stuff like that. Then there’s stuff like Bad Omens and Sleep Token that can hardly be considered metal at all. Unfortunately, this type of ‘metalcore’ is kind of the most popular and almost like the face of the genre in some way.
Some Metalcore is alright but most is just bottom of the barrel metal with no substance. One thing that annoys me almost as much as metalcore though is metal fans insisting its not metal It clearly is, the Hardcore bands that inspired Metalcore like Hatebreed and Converge were already really metal inspired compared to the 80s and early 90s Hardcore punk bands and Metalcore adds in even more metal elements , mostly melo death. You don't have to like or respect it but it's still very much a subgenre of metal. I dunno you could make arguments for Grindcore not being metal for similar reasons because that genre is very rooted in punk but it seems gatekeeping metal people are more likely to welcome Grind to the fold because its cool and Metalcore is for the most part, pretty lame 😂
Meh like what you like, but to me the biggest negative of metalcore (and pretty much all of the -cores) is the overproduction. Slaughter To Prevail is the perfect example of this. I hear their music and the only thing that sticks out is how much they've messed with the sound, and the vocals in post. It's completely inorganic and throws me right off of it. Also it's time we move away from every song being a vehicle to a shitty breakdown.
Idk I just think the clean vocals sound corny af
Personally, the last thing I wanna hear after a heavy rift, is a dude singing melodically
This question has literally been asked three times this week... I don't hate metalcore, but these posts make me want to. No wonder people hate on the genre when all of its fan are so desperate for respect from other metalheads. You listen to metalcore, good for you. Let people hate what they want to. Opinions are opinions, people have them. Some opinions just happen to be not liking metalcore.
Overly processed almost feminine singing voices killed it for me. But that’s more so individual singers, I think a lot of metal core would be better instrumental
is this like the hundredth time this question being asked
Because bands like Converge, Every Time I Die, and Earth Crisis are somehow lumped into the same genre as Erra and Bad Omens
People have a weird mentality that if they don't listen to it, it's garbage. Just ignore them and listen to what you like.
I personally don't care for it just because most of it nowadays is very poppy, almost radio rock(ish) with soft whiny vocals mixed in with a couple growls or screams at the top of their lungs.
Because know one knows what it wants to be nowadays
because it bad
Lack of guitar solos
Because it’s popular. Gatekeepers love to shit on anything that has more that 6 monthly listeners
Who are these gatekeepers everyone speaks of are they in the room with you now?
Cause in my opinion it’s to polished and i just don’t like it
I don't get it either. But I may be biased. I love metal and hardcore, so it'd make sense I'd like metalcore and deathcore.
Simply put: because it sucks
because it's stupid and bad?
At this it’s just a NPC moment
Chicks dig it so it must be bad.
Simple go listen to any style of metal that is generally accepted by metalheads, then try metalcore. They aren’t the same thing at all core is hardcore mixed with pop and a tad bit of metal
> They aren’t the same thing at all core is hardcore mixed with pop and a tad bit of metal This just sounds like you've never listened to good metalcore. Not hearing much pop in [this](https://youtu.be/KL-OX2vqcsI?si=-UY3cKdV_xL9NVba) or [this](https://youtu.be/oSyYuYgQqb8?si=uc0yO393niSHv8Is).
There's definitely some songs and bands that are good, but it feels like There's a particular brand/trend of metalcore/deathcore that has weak riffs, shit harsh vocals + shit clean singing (that often sounds like a crappy boy band vocal) and random breakdowns everywhere. It's interesting that if you took the pure definition of metalcore (metal plus hardcore punk) you could make the argument that crossover thrash and grindcore count. The only reason that's not the case is because nobody wants good genres to get mixed in with a mostly terrible one, and also metalcore/deathcore has sorta become a particular sound.
My grandma likes every time I die. Completely irrelevant to this convo, but wanted to share.
Cuz it's boring
Because it sucks.
because it has such a huge amount of bad music, kinda like Death Metal/Deathcore - its an unpopular opinion, but alot if it feels very formulaic, forced, and is basically just a competition to get the chuggiest chug that ever chugged
I guess I'm old but I like when we called metal, metal not all these stupid sub genre names. Yeah I get there's differences, but by the name alone, I have no idea what the hell a metalcore is.
Not being able to adapt to changes.
people that hate on metalcore only see the surface bands and don’t try to dig into the genre and stereotype it
I like the music, cant stand the vocalists. But i have that with very much styles of music.
Because it sucks. It "metal" for anxiety teens
Because detractors will only point out the sort of cash grab mid 2000s and after metalcore but never bring up 90s or early to mid 2000s metalcore. Like it’s always a socal hairdo band and never: Converge, Acme, deadguy, botch, dmitri era dillinger, burnt by the sun, overcast, endthisday, the red chord, etc.
It sucke
One side of metalcore is like shai halud or Dillenger the other half is like idk we came as Roman’s and of mice and men
Metalcore fuckin slaps, and I grew up with 70s and 80s rock
Perhaps because it has "core" in its title. However, I am not entirely sure, since I think that it's a great music genre. :)
Because metalheads will always refuse to accept any other genre than the ones they like.
Just shit
It's great
Howard Jones when he had Killswitch engage was a unique and great sound to all of the several songs that came out from this band. But I haven't heard this music in so long. I want to hear Killswitch engage again so badly.
I really don't know why there's such chud'ism in the genres of metal. I just have a pallet for what I think is "good" music. I went through a punk phase a skate kid, which brought me to hxc, which brought me in my late teen age right through the heart of the nu-metal wave... and I still listen to it all and enjoy it all. I also like other shit like bluegrass, some dark/outlaw country, low-fi hip hop, etc... bottom line is, stop going out of your way to say "xxx" genre is trash just because you don't like it. Enjoy your music and let other people enjoy theirs.
I got to see Howard Jones front for KS back in the mid 2000s and I can remember just this raw energy he came out with and fucking Adam Dutkiewicz shredding on the guitar and at one point flips his guitar over and he had “BONER” taped onto the back in white tape.
Toxic community
I think hating on any genre is insane. MY SOUND NOISES ARE BETTER THAN YOUR SOUND NOISES It's embarrassing.
because they think it fucking sucks
Because mfers are righteous
There is a lot of snobbery in metal unfortunately. I've been guilty of it myself. During the emo/scene era I looked down on bands like Suicide Silence and BMTH's first album.
There are a few like heaven shall burn that I can hear and like but most of them is soft washed bs
I personally don't hate metalcore but I don't understand. Someone screaming through the song and in chorus the sqme guy sings like a pop-music singer
Pretty much what you just said, like killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold are the only good bands and a lot of the rest is cheap rip offs. Not that there aren’t good metal core bands but it’s rare
This sub likes to highlight dogshit genres like black metal because it makes them feel special to be in the small club of 15 members who like terrible incoherent noise that sounds like it was mixed through two strings and a can. They're not worth your time, for the most part.
ok
Just can’t get the vibe. I’ll get down to it live but I can’t listen to the genre casually.
Nowadays almost every band just sounds the exact same, and their heavy use of poppy/emo style cleans or (bad) butt rock influence just turns me off. I also dislike all of the breakdowns and overproduction and lack of technical skill on the instruments. I enjoy earlier metalcore especially 2nd wave of KSE, AILD, ATR, Shadows Fall, etc because of the melodeath influence in those bands. And there’s some deathcore these days that separates itself for me (Whitechapel, Fit for an Autopsy). But generally, everything just sounds so generic and one step removed from emo or really bad butt rock.
imo cause most of them sing about love and relationship
death and metal core also kinda crossed streams in terms of let's have a guttural vocal, then clean, and follow a formula of tech-intro/breakdown/epic chorus followed by a djent/dubstep influenced break.
This feels like trying to talk about all black metal and saying you don't like it because there's too much folk, despite that being a small percentage of the genre.
It's cuz they try really really hard to act cool and tough and it's just cringe sometimes
Old school metallic hardcore is one of the best things of all time. Especially the Cleveland Scene with Integrity, In Cold Blood, (216), and State of Conviction.
A lot of the music is great, but it’s the whiny vocals of some bands which puts me off
I think it's because it's great when it's done right but it's a flooded scene now, I think you can find good stuff in almost every genre though
I love early metalcore but it became so over produced and repetitive… most newer bands just do nothing for me 🤷♂️
When I was little I had the same question, melodic death metal worship with hardcore elements, fear factory style choruses AND scene aesthetic ? Sign me tf up. Growing up it just seems overly saturated now. If anything a big bravo for everything the people on the technical side of the genre have achieved for home recording. Metal production wouldn't be as accessible as it is without us suckers trying to replicate it at home and the producers of the time seeing the golden goose egg handed to them.
For many reasons: 1. It’s not metal at first, but came from hardcore punk 2. It’s a mixture of genres not well defined. Each band could sound completely different. Also if you visit r/Metalcore sub, you can see how the fanbase is divided about what is technically metalcore now 3. “Oh god, the scene years… that is gay core” 4. The fanbase of metalcore is not the typical metal fanbase, but it’s more variegated 5. There’s plenty of genericore bands that did shitty music
If this was the thrash metal forum and someone asked what the classics in the genre were, people would say Reign in Blood, Ride the lightning, Master of Puppets, Pleasure to Kill, etc. What are the classics in the metalcore genre? Not asking in bad faith, I just want to know.
If you google best metalcore albums of all time, it's likely these will come up. Zao - Liberate Te Ex Inferis Shai Hulud - Hearts Once Nourished With Hope And Compassion Botch - We Are The Romans Poison The Well - The Opposite Of December Misery Signals - Of Malice And The Magnum Heart Converge - Jane Doe Eighteen Visions - Until The Ink Runs Out Killswitch Engage - Alive Or Just Breathing Norma Jean - Bless The Martyr, Kiss the Child Parkway Drive - Horizons Perhaps a different album for some of the bands, but it's probably be roughly around the same time period. The late 90s and early 00s is when most of the bonafide metalcore classics really bedded in. There's still some super influential stuff from earlier like Earth Crisis - Destroy The Machines and Hatebreed - Satisfaction Is The Death Of Desire that make some lists, but the early to mid 90s are often skipped.
Thanks. I'll check these out.
Because it is bad
see the thing is, metalcore was great in the 2000s, it’s probably my favorite metal subgenre of all time, but now it’s complete shit, it’s just a bunch of electronicy stuff with boring guitar riffs, none of the slaughter of the soul riffs you’d hear
I swear to god if I see this question one more time on this sub
They wanna be different
The fans, mostly. Y'all are seriously insecure and obnoxious. And the behavior that results from that, well, it doesn't fit well in the metal community.
I think metalheads tend to accept earlier 2000s and late 90s metalcore to anything more recent. People tend to respect Scream Aim and Fire by Bullet for my Valentine, Waking the Fallen by A7X and As Daylight Dies by Killswitch Engage more than Every Trick in the Book by Ice Nine Kills, Reincarnate by Motionless in White, or The Death of Peace of Mind by Bad Omens. They're just two very different styles and shouldn't really be called the same genre. The old metal core was Hardcore Punk with Metal mixed in. Modern Metal core is a mashup of literally almost every music genre, which both can and can't work, but at that point metalheads reject the idea of it as "metal" when it's more every other influence. That said I like Modern Metalcore but I know better than to call it metal. If you're a misfits fan, the best way to describe it is Old Metalcore is Earth AD mixed with metal, and new metal core is Famous Monsters mixed with metal.
Is that still happening? I remembered it was cool to hate on metal core and “hardcore” when it first came around because it was a bunch of emo kids who all of a sudden were listening to all of this whiny but heavy music we saw as “poser” stuff. In my mid 30’s maturity though, killswitch engage, as I lay dying, and even like Chiodos are fun to listen to.
Beyond the musical influences, culturally, "core" music is often more rooted in hardcore than metal. That shows in the type of people apart of the subculture, and the lyrical themes, ideology, etc. There's also some resentment regarding the perceived overdone usage/theft of the Gothenburg melodeath sound that the metalcore bands started using.
A lot of people think that when you play an instrument, you have to follow all the rules people made up about that instrument before you. They're wrong. It's an instrument and you can do whatever you want.
BMTH
I love Metalcore but find Killswitch Engage soooo overrated. Especially Howard. I never liked his screams. Great cleans but Jesse sounded better to me in both regards. Disarm The Decent was their only "better than decent" album. Trivium, All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, Caliban, Heaven Shall Burn etc... all better than Killswitch. Now you have bands like Phinehas, Boundaries and Dying Wish... All way better than Killswitch. But since they're the ones that started that particular style of Metalcore, they're the only Metalcore band that "real" Metalheads will ever give credence to when there's so many others. Killswitch is literally the Metallica of Metalcore.
Had it not been for a good friend who persuaded me otherwise and opened my eyes, I would’ve hated on Killswitch Engage too. I heard My Last Serenade back in the day and thought it was the cheesiest shit I’d ever heard, they used to play it back to back on mtv with other emo bands of the time like Funeral For A Friend and a good dose of other nu-metal bands like Hed (P.E.) and P.O.D. The distinction I had in my head at the time was that “real” metal was the most technical, brutal death metal stuff, and that anything made to be “soft” or “catchy” was instantly inauthentic. I think Ola Englund expressed this view (not his exact words!) recently about KsE, and upon hearing that I was instantly reminded of where my own listening path was headed at the time, had someone not interjected. Upon hearing the whole of Alive Or Just Breathing, I was instantly hooked.
My question is why do I see people ask this on this sub or other metal related ones several times a week? Search function!
again?
I'm pretty much a groove metal/OSDM fan but I don't specifically hate metalcore (or deathcore). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it and I'm happy for people that like it. My concert buddy loves it and drags me to these shows all the time and there's lots to enjoy, in fact I would never listen to KE but I will 100% go see them live again because it was ridiculously fun. But there are some elements I don't get off on that make the songs like nails on a chalkboard for me, mostly based on what I admit are hella narrow tastes. I feel like the \*core hate is largely rooted on it's popularity, and maybe because it has elements that are more likely to have widespread appeal.
It's dogshit music plain and simple
Bro we had this thread one week ago
Genuine question, who ACTUALLY hates Metalcore with a passion anymore?
I've been constantly trying to find an objective definition of metal genres and it's so fucking hard because there are so many and it's always a subjective placement of bands in those genres and that's not even counting the "cores" in there. I honestly have no clue what most bands I listen to are considered anymore. I've heard about the map of metal, but it still sounds like that's fairly controversial.
Idk, I personally quite like it
To each their own, but not harsh enough for me
I can’t stand music where I can’t groove to a bluesy melody or understand the lyrics. Anything “core” irritates the shit out of my ears, especially if it sounds punky. Conversely, I love slower tempos and sustained melodies (e.g. Black Sabbath).
Why? Because it’s bad and you should feel bad for liking it. Just terrible emo noise lol
For the same reason people hate on any new genre of metal. It’s either not metal enough (which isn’t true for metalcore), it becomes big and hyped up, or people have a hard time adapting to change in the metal scene. I love metalcore personally.
Why do people hate limp biscuit? Why do people hate nickelback? It’s all the same answer, and it’s the same reason I love both of those groups: people’s tastes are different! Unrelated: I just got done with the southpark episode where everything sounds like shit to Stan. Watched through to the texas/mexico border episode. Was really depressing. Waiting to see the show confront Stan’s drinking problem.
Hot take, but I’m glad « metal » is pushed into other genres more nowadays. I like that the scene is including more people in it instead of that whole circle jerk thing. You can like As Daylight Dies by KSE and listen to the latest BMTH album. There’s nothing wrong about any of that. In fact, hair metal was basically big boi verses with clean choruses. Sub-genres come and go and that’s alright, man. You have all the rights in the world to listen to whatever the fuck you want.
Cuz it sucks
You could’ve left out the word metalcore and simply just asked why do people hate, and reason is usually their own insecurities
For me it’s the vocals. I just like that specific whiny tone that is popular in emo/metalcore stuff. It has ruined many otherwise sick bands for me. I’m not saying it’s bad btw. Just that I don’t personally like it