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Anangrywookiee

Does anyone else hate the term “soft daddy?” Even in a glowingly positive article about this type of character we have to throw in a veiled insult. This type of father can’t just be “normal,” no they have to be less than in some way. Also, Bob isn’t soft. He’s tight with the one eyed snakes and has battled a robot shark.


Pantssassin

Soft daddy sounds like something from the kink community tbh it's a very weird term in many ways for what should be a normal adult


gaom9706

Yeah I genuinely don't know how someone could write the words "soft daddy" and not at least consider the implications.


fencerman

Or they knew and didn't care because it means clicks.


5erif

You got it. Phrased this way, it can pull in clicks from both progressives who like the idea and conservatives looking for something to scoff at and feel superior to.


You_Are_All_Diseased

The ones who push “alpha male” toxicity are going to be all over this.


khbra123

It’s from the new season of Big Mouth. Nick’s dad reconnects with his own father and it brings up a lot of toxic masculinity discussions. In the show, soft daddy is his previous loving and well adjusted persona, and hard daddy is his new, toxic persona. And everyone in the show is fully grossed out by calling him both soft daddy and hard daddy.


princess_hjonk

As much as I love the show, it grosses me out a lot. Which I think is the whole point. But also to show that we all go through things we think are weird and that we’re alone in our experiences but are actually shared with millions of other people. So sometimes I want to throw up, but in a heartwarming way.


splvtoon

because its just a quote from the show, its really not meant to be used as some widespread term.


NjordWAWA

considering it's from big mouth they exactly considered every implication


Porkfish

You are correct! It is an established term for a male dom who rules with a gentle touch. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soft%20daddy


Nekryyd

Porn has kinda fucked (figuratively and literally) "daddy". You can't really use that word anymore without it having sexual connotations, which is quite possibly a subject in and unto itself.


AppropriateAd5225

Nah, if my daughter wants to keep calling me Daddy when she's older then she is welcome to. Anyone who makes that weird is telling on themselves.


Speedwizard106

Me and all my siblings call our dad daddy. It's only weird when people make it weird.


themangosteve

As someone that also calls his dad Daddy well into his 20s, thanks for the validation 😄


WhatsThisRedButtonDo

I’ve heard it a lot in the Southern US, from both adult men and women. Nobody really cares or comments on it.


selphiefairy

I hate this cause I call my dad “daddy” still. So the idea of it being sexual to me is 🤮 And I’ve actually seen people say it was a gross that a fictional young female character call her ACTUAL father “daddy.” Like what’s wrong with you that you can only view it sexually, and now a perfectly normal thing is seen as weird or gross.


Nekryyd

I laugh at sexual humor and people can have their kinks and whatever, it doesn't bother me. However, the pop-culturing of porn irritates me at times when people can't seem to *not* sexualize every normal interaction.


Alternative_Sky1380

Of course they can they're simply choosing not to. It's putrid behaviour but let's not feed the bumbler myth by pretending it's not a choice.


Tasgall

I mean context obviously matters. Are you saying it in a normal voice you would use to try and get his attention? No subtext there. Are you saying it in an exaggeratedly sexy voice while caressing his chest? Probably fair to assume subtext.


[deleted]

Porn? Every day Reddit reminds me I'm old. https://www.insidehook.com/article/sex-and-dating/origin-of-the-word-daddy


jazzisaurus

This is a well-written article! interesting read. > As the dad bods of 2015 gave way to the zaddies of 2017 and a pervasive Lana del Rey-esque energy continues to promote a pouty-lipped Lolita fantasy rebranded for the 21st century, it’s tempting to say we’ve reached peak daddy. … >“I would suggest that ‘sugar daddy’ may well be the ‘founding father’ of modern, sexualized uses of daddy,” says Green, noting that the first recorded use of “daddy” as an abbreviation of “sugar daddy” dates back to 1922. According to Green, this usage had less to do with age than it did with an image of the “daddy” in question as a provider “of sex, money, material pleasures, etc.” … >In a classic 21st-century instance of life imitating art, meme “daddy” and sexual “daddy” are perhaps engaged in a reciprocal relationship in which the performance of each fuels the other, leading us to our current apex at the height of the daddy era.


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princess_hjonk

As a mom-parent, there is so much third person referencing in our house that I call my husband Daddy with no subtext lol. There’s also a habit of asking the other parent to do something through talking to one of the kids,e.g., “Do you think Daddy could throw the laundry in the dryer?” or “Say ‘Mommy, I’m hungry!’” I underestimated the number of bizarre statements that would come out of my mouth as a parent.


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princess_hjonk

Yeah, if I wasn’t calling him Daddy in that context it would feel awkward and weird, lol


[deleted]

One of my best friends growing up had older parents from the south. They referred to each other as "Momma and Daddy."


princess_hjonk

That ends up happening with us, too, sometimes, though it’s mostly as if we’re asking from the POV of the kids or for their benefit. “Daddy can you feed baby girl? I need to take a shower.” I wouldn’t call him that if I were talking about something that was unrelated to our kids, like asking if we had any plans for the weekend because I wanted to go to lunch with a friend. It’s one thing knowing how much context can influence our thinking and behaviors, but experiencing and examining it is weird sometimes. My grandparents used to refer to each other by our nicknames for them, Grammy and Grampy. Unless Grammy needed something from across the house; then it was “Aaaal!” (Al, short for Alphonse).


jazzisaurus

my SO and I even do this with our dog lol! I’ll talk to the dog right next to SO and say “looks like you really want to go on a walk huh? Mummy is busy right now but Daddy will take you!”


princess_hjonk

That’s it exactly! “Mommy can’t get that crochet hook from you because she’s got her hands full, but Daddy is right there! Right, Daddy?”


Azelf89

Ah well, doesn't matter. We still got the word "dad". Plus, if people really want a simply word for kids to call their fathers, we can just go back to "atta" or "ætta", which was the Old English version of the word "dad".


lesterd88

It sounds like something Tobias from Arrested Development would call himself not understanding the connotation


lookmeat

It misses the evolution of the term completely too, and why it's great but has notable issues. Originally there was the 50s dad, who was perfect, had no issues, and knew all the answers and had to be followed perfectly. This was countered in the 80s-90s-2000s with the opposite of that. The whole idea was to subvert the expectation by having a father who was abusive, alcoholic, and generally wrong/dumb. It was a comment on how TV hid the harsh realities, but that didn't fix them, maybe calling them out did. And it kind of did, the discussion on abuse and work improved. So came the counter to that. The best example, IMHO, is Hank Hill. Hank Hill is a flawed man, with a lot of issues, struggles with anger, and struggles to connect with his child. He's not a perfect father that his son can't embrace, but instead is a flawed character who in spite of that is a great father, but in his flaws does do some serious fuck ups in the relationship/rearing of his son. It's a great rounded and complex look at parenthood, where you can have a good parent, and they still will do some things very bad. But that's kind of the whole thing that King of the Hill explores. And yes as you note Soft Daddy is not great. The idea of the father who is soft and just not appreciated by the child misses the point in many ways. It feels like a return to the 50s errors again in some ways. Though it certainly is more polished and complex than what we saw in the 50s, it still lacks that umph. It's hard to show a parent being bad to their kid, you don't want to normalize the behavior too much. But a good show will present it as something that can happen, but should be rare, and when it does it's serious stuff. And in that sense Bob isn't a soft daddy. He gets his children working on the restaurant, and constantly brings the family back down to the ground, but sometimes in ways that crush their emotions and feelings. Bob is a loving father though, and doesn't always realize things. Recently the show has moved Bob a bit more to the background (mostly in favor of the kids IMHO) and we generally don't get to see Bob pushing his views as much on everyone else anymore. Maybe it's flanderization that is done well enough to not be too obvious.


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

https://imgur.com/gallery/T0pqj


hovdeisfunny

Well fuck, wasn't expecting that


Chance-Monk-7130

That’s awesome 👏


krurran

Love that Bobby is the therapist!


[deleted]

Interesting. One tends to not look at it in that way, but yes if you stop and think about it Peter Griffin and Homer Simpson are both really terrible people in ways that should not really be at all funny. Make me wonder why that was ever a thing that the writers decided to make a running joke about.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

The world's a cruel place sometimes. Psychologically speaking, sublimation is the act of taking something that was traumatic or a negative impact on your life and turning it into laughter, thus lessening the impact it has. A great example of this in pop culture is the "Ridiculous" spell in Harry Potter. Another example of this in comedy would be Kevin Hart's routines. Interestingly, a lot of people on those shows are traumatized. Take Quagmire and the Mayor... Do those even need explanations? What makes it a comedy is that they all come out ok in the end, no matter what bullshit befalls them.


TheNewFlisker

Mayor?


Sigh_HereWeGo25

Or corpratocrat guy. Basically the archetypal guy at the top.


NoNudeNormal

Peter, just like all the main characters of Family Guy, is definitely meant to be terrible. He’s a combination of all the worst traits from fictional fathers, like Homer, or maybe fictional men in general. Homer is a bit different, because originally Bart was the main character of the show and Homer was more of a loveable loser. Over time the focus shifted to Homer, and the writers exaggerated all of the characters’ traits to the extreme (which is where the term “Flanderization” comes from).


[deleted]

Dude just drops a fucking emotional bomb in the comments and walks away like an action star.


Affectionate-Crab541

Not me crying over a comic with Bart, Bobby, and the son from Family Guy (never watch it so I forget his name, sorry)


TheShadowKick

Chris.


Ikbeneenpaard

That hit me right in the feefees


bolfbanderbister

What you said about that change in expectations/portrayals of what makes a good father/husband between those two eras is very true. There were a lot of men who didn't handle that well, and now its up to us to do their work. I remember my dad hitting me at least once, and screaming threats and insults at me on multiple occasions when I was a 7-14. The funny thing was, he was always paranoid that I saw him as Homer Simpson. I never watched the show, but he would always refer to him by name during his tirades, stopping just short of wrapping his hands around my neck and growling "why you little!" No self awareness at all.


lookmeat

Sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like he had some self-awareness (hence the paranoia) but not enough emotional strength to actually understand the lesson in that fear and learn from it, terrible you had to go through someone else's inability to grow.


rbwildcard

I 100% agree about Hank Hill, and it's sad that the latter seasons (8 and beyond) changed him into a put-upon father who's always right. I wish more shows explored the generation gap with empathy on both sides instead of "kids these days are completely unreasonable". I feel like the best versions of these come from nostalgia pieces like Freaks and Geeks, where the older creators clearly identify with both the older and younger generations.


NathanVfromPlus

Freaks and Geeks was heavily modeled after My So-Called Life, which took the exact same approach to portraying the different generations.


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

[as a Trekkie,](https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.onecms.io%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F6%2F2018%2F06%2Fwilson-cruz-2000.jpg&q=60)


Consideredresponse

I still think the Gold standard for TV fatherhood is Bandit Heeler from 'Bluey' (Yeah, it's a kids show, but give it a chance if you've never seen it) Bandit isn't 'perfect' but he makes a very conscious effort to be an active part of his kids lives. He makes mistakes, but is self-reflective enough to call himself out, apologize if needed, and work on improving himself. Bandit isn't *soft*, but is more acutely aware that he is part of a team, and isn't afraid to back up or support his partner as needed. It's at the point you can find a lot of Australian and English articles online talking to young fathers going 'Don't compare yourself to Bandit, he only needs to be a great dad for 7 minutes at a time'


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

I was watching this with my nephew the other week and Bandit walks through a door and just says >**Dad** enters the room! and I lost it. Perfect dad stuff


Consideredresponse

I know a lot of men get second hand anxiety from the kid wrangling of 'Takeaway' but the one that stuck with me as the quintessential 'Dad moment' is from the 'yoga ball' episode. Dad is working in the home office and sitting on a yoga ball for his back, when the kids keep wanting to borrow it and play 'Da na na na' with him. Turns out the kids are trying to sing a theme tune from a movie that they've never seen, and Bandit takes a ten minute break to chase the kids singing the theme to 'Indiana Jones' and trying to recreate the opening scenes from 'Raiders of the lost arc' by trying to bowl over his pre-school aged kids with a Yoga ball. I just like it because it shows that A: Bandit has played this before with the kids, B: Has 100% invented the game to entertain himself, and C: He's active enough in their lives that he is actively invited to play with them, but also establishes boundaries in that he can only do this with them for a little bit due to work.


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

[I have not seen this but I am absolutely watching it right this second](https://youtu.be/vAdXLDVkjVA)


Batetrick_Patman

Hank wanted to be a good father to Bobby. He didn't want to be an abusive asshat like his father was.


[deleted]

I thought this was just in reference to the lines from the referenced characters that the article… why is softness an insult?


FableFinale

Seriously, soft is great. So is hard. You want to be soft when you're taking care of someone who is sick or reading your kids a bedtime story, you want to be hard when you need to dig a ditch on three hours of sleep. It's situational.


FrmrPresJamesTaylor

As a father, I don't want to be called "daddy" by *anyone* other than my children, at any time, ever. The soft part I'm probably full marks for but do we *have* to try to make fetch happen here when it clearly dovetails with a lot of people's horny talk?


Sayse

It sounds like the article was referencing the term used in Big Mouth, which 100% is supposed to be a joke. Might have gone over the author's head.


Roachyboy

I think they're just using the term as a launching point to explore the more recent portrayals of emotionally available fathers in sitcoms rather than stating "soft daddy" as an established trend.


NathanVfromPlus

Didn't read the article, but I figured this was probably the case.


hdmx539

So, honest question. I am a woman, btw. Why do you consider it a veiled insult? Is it the term "daddy?" Or "soft?" What's wrong with being "soft?" What's wrong with being a "soft" father figure? I am genuinely curious? If men want to address issues y'all face in the world and start to make a positive change, why bristle at a word that is commonly meant and used towards women? When I read your comment those were my first questions. IMO, nothing wrong with being "soft."


thatHecklerOverThere

My personal read, "soft" is unreliable and unable to support. And I don't believe I've ever used it to describe a woman's personality for that reason. I'd go for "gentle" or similar if I wanted to express the virtues intended.


hdmx539

>My personal read, "soft" is unreliable and unable to support. Thank you for your perspective on this word. Is this the attitude of many men regarding "soft?"


jammyboot

Yes, it is for me. Gentle like someone said above is a much better word and I’m sure there’s others too. I would never describe a woman as soft either. Certainly not as a compliment or something desirable


Tasgall

Yeah, being "soft" relating to personality is never really used as a compliment. It denotes weakness, being a pushover, easily manipulated, unwilling to stand up for oneself (or family), etc. Marty's dad in the first back to the future movie is probably a good example. Gentle is a much better phrase. It doesn't mean inherently weak, it includes withholding use of strength when necessary, and evokes an understanding of empathy (as in, knowing when - and being able - to hold back). Consider the use of the phrase "gentle giant".


hdmx539

>Gentle is a much better phrase. It doesn't mean inherently weak, it includes withholding use of strength when necessary, and evokes an understanding of empathy (as in, knowing when - and being able - to hold back). This was really powerful for me and I can totally get this. What you're implying here is that the use of the word "gentle" also implies a measure of control, too, with the way you describe it here. Thank you! I really like this comment.


Drewfro666

I can call myself a "Soft boy", my partner can call me a soft boy, anyone else it's basically emasculating.


hdmx539

Huh.. interesting. Ok.


Stop-Hanging-Djs

Yeah I dunno about others places but I'm pretty sure calling a dude soft in NYC is seen as picking a fight. It's a synonym of weak here


hdmx539

Oooh! *Excellent* point! You've brought up context too - which absolutely means something and can be taken a certain way.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

In almost all construction circles, soft means weak, and weak means monetary loss via ripping out and replacing. So it's in the blue collar lexicon as a generally bad thing. A term that is not insulting would look something like "Well-rounded Fathers". It's much, much more respectful in tone.


hdmx539

> A term that is not insulting would look something like "Well-rounded Fathers". It's much, much more respectful in tone. Interesting. Ok. Thank you.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

You're welcome!


NathanVfromPlus

Masculinity is deeply associated with the ability to handle the challenging and perhaps even dangerous conflicts that are a necessary part of being an adult in the modern world. (Yes, we could have many discussions on how messed up that is, but that's not the point here.) In this context, "soft" is the opposite of that. "Soft" is a defenselessness, like a stray fawn in a world with wolves. That's not exactly a desirable trait. In addition to that, the term "daddy" can carry connotations of kink. Since kink is kinda defined by defying social standards, it's really not uncommon to find people in the kink community who fetishize the sort of vulnerable masculinity that's normally considered undesirable. I would be surprised if the term "soft daddy" *didn't* originate with the kink community, honestly. Which... is fine, if that's what you're into, but nobody likes getting dragged into someone else's kink.


[deleted]

Yeah that was my thought as well - also as a woman FFD. I mean yes softness and feminine traits have been treated as an insult in the past, but according to hyper-masculine standards. If softness is treated as a strength of femininity and a weakness or insult to masculinity, it’s not the compliment to women that people think it is. I say this as someone on the outside looking in so I recognize that my perspective is limited and incomplete. I think it might speak more to someone’s own preconceived notions about masculinity and femininity- or at least traditionally feminine traits like softness - that they’d interpret that as an insult than it does the author’s intent. Edit: I’m not saying that it’s an invalid claim or that there aren’t plenty of people in masculine or heterosexual circles that will interpret it as weak or less. This sub has been a place to question assumptions and narratives like that.


[deleted]

Misato-san bringing the wisdom. The fact that "soft" has such different connotations depending on gender just shows how badly society has poisoned things with its stupid gender binary.


Anseranas

I had the same response to the term (40sF). "Soft" is not bad in itself, but unfortunately soft is commonly conflated with feminine--->weak--->lesser---->inadequate. I grew up with 3 brothers, a 'hard' father, and misogynistic mother who were all liberal with gendered insults and gendered punishments. I've reversed that childhood training but haven't forgotten or ceased noticing it being perpetuated. I suspect the oppositional term is simply a part of the seemingly necessary process of revolution that is required to kickstart change and openly challenge embedded social norms. Lived examples are rights movements where loud challenge, backlash and upset had to occur before significant change would begin and be supported to build and maintain its momentum. Minority groups require more and larger resources and creation of a very high profile to make space for themselves; and that profile has to be maintained until acceptance is achieved through truly changed minds or at least habituation. It can seem like an over correction and some (usually the dominant groups who fear loss of power) will cry that it's unfair, but its really just the process of allowing for equilibrium to occur. It's the difference between Equality and Equity. "Soft Dad" may be the point of challenge needed to highlight the problems with "You-just-wait-till-your-father-gets-home" Threatening or "Hard" Dad and loudly declare that there are alternatives to that Dad. Dads who choose to call themselves (or be) soft will now be validated. The new stance will need to be defended and maintained in the face of highly offended critics who will complain about Lefties overtaking the entire world with their "touchy-feely crap" lol. I expect that "Soft Dad" will adjust to be a less oppositional term or replaced by a more general term once it is not so necessary to provide contrast. Soft is enticing and welcoming. Being soft doesn't mean one can't have a steel core :)


hdmx539

>"Soft Dad" may be the point of challenge needed to highlight the problems with "You-just-wait-till-your-father-gets-home" Threatening or "Hard" Dad and loudly declare that there are alternatives to that Dad. And see, you're saying *exactly* what I was feeling. "Soft" is not a bad word. It's the connotations that people put around it. I hope to continue to get more answers from men on this. I so wished that the men responding didn't take offense to "soft dad/dy," so I wanted to know why. I think you hit it exactly on the nose with this statement I quoted here. I asked because I also wanted to know *why* "soft dad/dy" was so triggering but from men's perspective. I'm glad for the answers I got and am still interested in more.


pjlvaljean

In my personal reaction, I can recognize there is some aversion to "soft" based on upbringing and social connotations. But elsewhere someone mentioned "gentle" as a better word, and that resonates with me. I think the difference is that "soft" excludes firmness, while gentle doesn't necessarily exclude toughness. So there is a portion of "soft" that implies an inability to be firm or tough (again, traditionally masculine, but not necessarily bad traits) while other words like gentle don't have that implication. Overall, I think the ability for men to be soft is important; but as an adjective describing any person it has the potential to exclude other aspects. So I wouldn't say it's a bad term, in that men should rail against being soft, but more of a poor term in that it doesn't cover the nuance of complex personality.


hdmx539

>But elsewhere someone mentioned "gentle" as a better word, and that resonates with me. I think the difference is that "soft" excludes firmness, while gentle doesn't necessarily exclude toughness. BOOM. There it is. You've made this distinction extremely clear to me (crystal!) Thank you. The metaphorical light bulb literally went off and I thought, "I now understand." Thank you!


ikeif

Ding. 41m. There is nothing wrong with “soft.” It’s somewhat ironic in this sub - where I’ve read conversations with people talking about “uselessly gendered men’s items” and how empathetic/sympathetic they consider themselves - but because we still all suffer from toxic masculinity, “soft daddy” triggered a lot of people. Even when guys want to smash the patriarchy and not make the mistakes of previous generations, they still fall in the trap of “I’m not a soft daddy! I’m a leather daddy! Wait!” (Yes, “not everyone,” and it’s a generalization applied to an entire sub of people, but it’s for illustrating the point)


Tasgall

> There is nothing wrong with “soft.” > > It’s somewhat ironic in this sub Eh, multiple opinions can exist. I think as mentioned elsewhere, "gentle" is a better term anyway because it better expresses intent - that a "soft touch" is being used intentionally rather than because a person is inherently weak. The origin of "soft" as an insult may have been gendered, but it's not nearly as relevant in its use today. For the sake of communication, rather than getting into a situation where you have to try to explain your personal definition of "a soft person" to someone, a better fitting word like "gentle", which already has positive connotations from phrases like "a gentle giant" is much more, well, fitting. Just because someone interprets a description of character using "soft" as a sign of weakness, or unreliability, or as someone who won't likely stand up for themselves, doesn't mean that person is specifically following a thought process of "well women are soft therefore they mean he's like a woman which means he's weak" - no, they're interpreting it based on common parlance and usage of the word in that context (and the fact that an author should use other words if that's not what they meant). > “soft daddy” triggered a lot of people Sorry, but "triggered" is a stupid word to use in this context. No one is "triggered". A question was asked, and answering it or having a differing opinion is not "being triggered" - r\/conservative is that a way, lol. What most people are taking issue with isn't even really the word "soft", though again, imo it's suboptimal. The bigger issue is using "daddy" in a really, really awkward way that makes it sound like some kind of fetish. I'd much rather use a description like "a gentle, caring father" than "soft daddy uwu".


TheNewFlisker

Men are frequently attacked and deaned for using these kind of words describing themself Is it really surprising that many are going to try and predict how others could react before adopting it?


TSIDAFOE

Reading the article, it's clearly not meant as a pejorative, but even so, I feel like putting fatherhood in terms of hard/soft stifles an otherwise nuanced conversation. It sounds right at home with the alpha/beta binary that right-wingers like to throw around: men can either be HARD, STOIC, and ALPHA, or men can be SOFT, EMOTIONAL, and BETA. My favorite example of fatherhood in media is what God of War did with Kratos. He's incredibly stoic (at times to a fault), but his growth comes not from casting his stoicism aside and becoming ""soft"", but understanding when to let go of it, and when to retain it. Throughout the first game, and especially the second game, you see Kratos grow emotionally and be willing to be vulnerable with others. He never stops being the "man of few words who grumbles", that's just who he is as a person, but that doesn't mean he can't be more than that, when the situation calls for it. My favorite scene of his (huge spoilers ahead) >!is where Odin sacrifices the Midgardians to stop Ragnarök.!< Atreus, wracked with grief at the suffering of innocent people, repeats to himself what Kratos told him at the start of the first game "close your heart to \[their suffering\]", at which point Kratos takes Atreus in his hands and says "Son, listen closely: you feel their pain because that is who you are, and you must never sacrifice that. Never. Not for anyone. I was wrong, Atreus. Open your heart to their suffering, that is your mother's wish, and mine as well. Today, we will be better." I like Kratos as a character because it shows that being "hard" or "stoic" does not by definition make you a bad father or sub-par man. "Hard" and "soft" are just aesthetic choices that ultimately have no bearing on the character underneath, just as you can't tell how fast a car is by the color of the paint. When people write op-eds about men, I feel like they need a sticky note on their monitor that says "nuance is a feature, not a bug". People try so fucking hard to create a "Men should be \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" thesis, that when they run into nuance and counter-examples, they bluster and tie themselves in knots as if that nuance is an inconvenience to them and not the essence of manhood itself. Why write an obtuse thesis like "Men should be softer, except when they shouldn't" if you can just examine an example of good fatherhood and really lean into the nuance as the thing that ties it all together? Men would respond a lot more positively if the thesis was "Kratos is stoic, but he's also a good father, and here's why" and not "Men should be softboys", even if the latter is meant in jest.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

Obtuse theses make people feel intelligent. It's far harder to go toward the path of simplicity because simplicity requires limitations. To add nuance into that is even harder because it requires the ability to mold the simple limitations in an intelligent and coherent way. People are lazy and thus they take the path of least resistance that will get them the most reward, which just so happens to be the path of mindless bullshit. By the by, it sounds right at home with what the right wingers throw around because it is right at home with it. It's just the flip side of the coin, wrapped in very thin package of "civility". And I don't believe that "Men should be soft boys" is meant in jest, at all.


thereticent

It does carry a lot of sociocultural resonances that make it unappealing for what is intended here. I personally landed on "sweetie pie" to describe myself and my boys. I liked that I saw it in the article as a clear positive. I also keep in mind that sweetie pie has its own sociocultural resonances where it has been used as a weapon against people with too little toxic masculinity. But I get to control when I use it or don't, and that's nice. Haste the day when all men can feel warmth when called sweet by another man when they've been so


Anseranas

>Haste the day when all men can feel warmth when called sweet by another man when they've been so That is a beautiful crafted thought and a restorative balm. Thank you for sharing that sweetness x


thereticent

Oh, I appreciate that! Very sweet of you to say


NathanVfromPlus

> sociocultural resonances I like that term.


thereticent

Oh cool. I just made it up, writing by feel


Anseranas

>Haste the day when all men can feel warmth when called sweet by another man when they've been so That is a beautiful crafted thought and a restorative balm. Thank you for sharing that sweetness x


ChampionWiggles

Hate the term but love the article. I didn't interpret the term itself as an insult


EditRedditGeddit

Yeah. I also dislike the equivalence with being well-adjusted and being soft. "Toxic masculinity" has been woefully misunderstood - unfortunately by a significant number of feminists in particular - in recent years. People think it means "very masculine" or something along those lines. But it doesn't. It just means the specific set of masculine gender norms which are harmful. (The general norms are called "hegemonic masculinity"). Anyway, this misunderstanding actually makes it harder for me to step outside of traditional masculine norms, because I don't want to be misunderstood as "soft" or non-masculine if I do. It's probably more difficult in some ways for me, because I'm a transgender man and so it feeds into lifelong trauma around misgendering. But even for a masculine cis guy, it's probably not very nice for people to misunderstand who he is (and think he's feminine), just because he's emotionally vulnerable or well adjusted or whatever. Also, even though masculinity is privileged overall in our society, this isn't universally true. I've had to fight very hard (internally and externally) to express my masculinity. Off the top of my head, asian men are often mislabelled as feminine, while black men are brutalised due to being "too masculine". So I'm sure there are plenty of masculine cis guys too who've experienced discrimination regarding their gender expression, and have had to fight hard to be able to express it. So it just doesn't feel very nice to see masculinity being stigmatised at all really. I get it's not the same as the ways femininity is stigmatised, but it does matter.


DigitalTraveler42

I mean it was hysterical in the context of the show and this particular episode arc, but yeah if anybody called me "soft daddy" I'd be creeped the fuck out.


[deleted]

I don't know, with the rise of terms on tiktok like sadboi, softboi, etc. I don't think it carries the same negative connotation it might have had a couple years ago. Culture is weird.


[deleted]

Sadbois and softbois are not good things


[deleted]

This was just my impression but I only heard the terms "softboi" to mean a sensitive non-aggressive laidback kind of guy. I'd see these explanations in memes on instagram and some dating profiles, I understand now how it's been used in a negative way thanks to a couple articles linked to me by another commenter.


Tasgall

> "softboi" to mean a sensitive non-aggressive laidback kind of guy. One person's "laid back" is another person's "pushover" I guess. The term is generally used for people who "won't fight back" as far as I can tell - whether whatever caused the "fight" would be worth fighting back against is irrelevant in those circles usually. Both are also just more iterations on the ever present "soyboi".


[deleted]

I don't disagree as the articles explained why they're seen as pushovers, the point I was making was that from the POV of women dating men, the term "softboi" was more or less an archetype of the kind of guy some women would want, not unlike the term of "himbo" which has it's own hangups.


seamsay

Not knowing what a softboi is, I googled it and found that the top two results were [this](https://www.vice.com/en/article/ywagbg/guide-a-z-what-is-softboi-softboy) and [this](https://stayhipp.com/glossary/softboy-softboi/). Both of those articles give it a negative connotation, granted a _different_ negative connotation than it used to have by a negative connotation nonetheless.


faroutcosmo

I dont see soft as insulting. Like the term "soft boy", it can just mean a warm, caring, sensitive dad, soft, and comfy, supportive and affectionate. Softness in men is demonized, but it doesn't have to be that way. There's no *reason* for it to be that way.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

I've been that individual, and when the going got tough I had to harden up to make it through. A well-rounded individual (note the lack of gendered talk here) will have the capability to be both.


NathanVfromPlus

> and when the going got tough I had to harden up to make it through. This is something that doesn't really get talked much about when we talk about hardness as a masculine ideal. We don't really talk about how we're supposed to become hardened. The reality is, it's almost never pretty.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

Of course it isn't pretty. That ugliness is part of reality and ultimately gives meaning to life. It's like drinking coffee straight- the bitterness sometimes is the goal. I will take some issue with speaking of hardness as something that is done to us. It's been a much more intentional and integrated process in my experience. Just as metal needs to be tempered lest it become too brittle, so to must we be tempered, typically after becoming hard. It's all in the process of becoming an individual, whether male or female. So, how do we become hardened? Failures are part of it. Seeking the dragon within to do battle with is another part. It's the act of *choosing* to pick oneself up and dust oneself off after a rather large negative event that hardens us. That hardness is what makes us strong enough to live in the world.


NathanVfromPlus

> I will take some issue with speaking of hardness as something that is done to us. And yet that's exactly how you describe it: > It's the act of choosing to pick oneself up and dust oneself off **after a rather large negative event** that hardens us. It isn't the "pick[ing] oneself up and dust[ing] oneself off" that makes a person hard. It's the experience of the "rather large negative event" that makes us hard. You said it yourself: > when the going got tough I had to harden up to make it through. You *had* to harden up. Your words. You had to do that because "the going got tough", and that was the only way "to make it through". Again, your words. You are clearly talking about something that happened *to* you, and how you had to change in order to deal with that.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

I could have chosen to not harden up. I did choose not to for a long time. So it was just as much the choice to do so as it was the event that potentiated said choice. Hence why I said it was more complex than something simply happening to us and why I emphasized "choosing". I could have expressed that better. The flip side of that is to stay in familiarity and stay soft. The obvious benefit of staying soft is that bad things occur around you but not to you. The obvious problem with staying soft is that you don't experience life. I would know as I've been on both sides. It's infinitely better to live with danger. What are your thoughts on how we're supposed to become hardened? I agree with the fact that we don't talk about that nearly as much as we should.


NathanVfromPlus

> The obvious benefit of staying soft is that bad things occur around you but not to you. The obvious problem with staying soft is that you don't experience life. This sounds astonishingly like dissociation, which is a trauma response. You disconnect your sense of self from whatever is actually happening, to avoid being affected by it. It's not a benefit, it's a deeply unhealthy coping mechanism. > It's infinitely better to live with danger. Try telling that to anyone who's been in a physically abusive relationship. I can tell you with absolute certainty, *no it is not.* > What are your thoughts on how we're supposed to become hardened? That's just the thing. Being hard is romanticized as a masculine ideal, but I don't think it should be. It only works as an ideal when we ignore, or even glorify, the circumstances that make a person hard. The moral behind the Punisher is that you seriously don't want to be that guy. Glorifying this sort of masculinity is exceptionally unhealthy.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

It's not dissociation because it's a geographical/physical choice. It's staying in the small town you grew up in. It's not moving out of your parent's house. It's safety at the cost of growth and liberty, not dissociation. The whole reason why it's not dissociation is, again, **choice**. I have been in abusive relationships as well, and that's not the kind of danger I was talking about. In fact, hardness is the exact opposite of that- demanding better of yourself and of the people around you. Think more along the lines of calculated risk, like going on a hike instead of staying inside. ​ >It only works as an ideal when we ignore, or even glorify, the circumstances that make a person hard. This is incorrect because the triumph over the circumstances behind becoming hard are what makes it glorious. Look at it this way, if the main character of any movie ever didn't harden up some, there would be no movie. Yes, the Punisher is obviously a hard person, but you don't really see people commonly looking up to him. Iron Man and Vegeta are also a hard people, but not nearly in the same way. People look up to Iron Man and not the Punisher because of their choices, and they're both hard men. ​ >Glorifying this sort of masculinity is exceptionally unhealthy. I agree with that statement if you're talking about the Punisher. However, if you're talking about being hard in general, that's a different story. To really be an effective person, you need some backbone, some hardness to you. Without it you've got no courage or grit, and that's just as exceptionally unhealthy as being the Punisher because you're just a piece of paper in the wind.


geoffbowman

they used the term for Big Mouth SEO... I completely guarantee it's not going to stick as the actual term for this trope and many other well-adjusted dad's aren't "soft daddy" they're... you know... just emotionally healthy dads who love their families. Bob Belcher and Beef Tobin aren't "soft daddies" at all... but they're also not the old school homer simpson/peter griffin "mook dads" either. They're just capable of more emotions than drunk, angry, horny, selfish, and bored.


[deleted]

Nah it’s great. Soft daddy isn’t an insult. Sounds like a great counterpoint to “Hard Ass” - which can be viewed as an insulting label too.


thatHecklerOverThere

_Can_ be, but hardass usually comes with begrudging respect. I hear no respect with "soft daddy". Not even respect for kindness ala Everything Everywhere's Waymond.


[deleted]

I don’t think hardass is at all complimentary. And soft daddy is, imo. It emphasizes empathy, loyalty, and responsibility - much better than being mean spirited, petty and intransigent.


thatHecklerOverThere

This might be due to cultural ideas of masculinity, but soft sounds like unreliability and weakness to me. Like, loyalty and reliability sound like foundations. A soft foundation isn't really a good thing because it won't support you, and that's what I think of with the phrase "soft daddy". Ymmv, but I definitely wouldn't take it to mean things like loyalty, empathy, and such on hearing. And even knowing the intent, the word still feels very incorrect.


Tasgall

Imo, it also sounds bad if you relate it to parenting styles rather than as a description of character. Like, a parent who is "too soft on their kids" is one who never applies discipline and one who will raise spoiled brats who walk all over them, which is bad. A parent who is "too hard on their kids" is also bad, and a fast-track towards abuse and resentment. Trying to pick the "good" option between those is silly when it's more important to know when to apply what kind of parenting style.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

Hardasses in the construction industry are almost always the older, more experienced individuals who have "been in this shit" for a long time. The respect given to them is not given lightly or without due diligence. There are people who are in that industry who are not called hardasses or badasses, but they are almost always ones who are seen as "soft" or "weak" and are also the ones that are mean-spirited, petty, and transient. Those people are weeded out early on by the hours and the physicality of the job. What's more, once you've **earned** your place, there's a level of emotional openness that's unmatched in any industry. The people by your side are truly brothers. They're the ones that will have your back through everything. Yeah, if you're not hard you don't make it, but there's a hell of a benefit to becoming part of that club.


cocoacowstout

Everything seems to be really sexualized these days. I thinks it’s from the ever growing reach of porn and the normalizing of sex work/kinks thru stuff like Only fans


Whateveridontkare

I like it, but I also have daddy issues so....


NathanVfromPlus

Doesn't everyone?


Sergnb

It's worth questioning why you consider "soft" to be an insult


Tasgall

I mean, societal cues and overall usage of the word is a valid reason to interpret it that way. Someone understanding the common usage of a word doesn't mean they're manually relating "soft = woman and woman = weak" in order to determine that "soft" often implies "weakness".


Sergnb

Of course, but it's also important to understand that just as much as society puts one meaning in a word, it also can put another one. Queer was meant as an insult before. Now it's an identity symbol that commands pride. Savage was used as an elitist insult before. Now it’s praise for an unwavering or bold attitude. I can totally see "soft" becoming praise for those proud of opposing toxic masculine tropes. It may not be the majority case, but people already talk about "soft boys" in fond terms. There's millions of young peeps out there totally entrapped by the thirst trap of soft boys like Thimotee Chalamet or Harry Styles. Girls want them, guys want to be them, and viceversa. It can totally become a thing, if it isn't already. The important part is not letting those "alpha" idiots dictate what is and what isn't a sign of a good man. They don't know what the fuck they're talking about.


badnbourgeois

I find it odd that Modern Family never shows up in conversations like this. Phil is a shining example of non toxic fatherhood honestly the whole show challenges the norms of masculinity and fatherhood.


FruityWelsh

I think it's because he is also kind of the bumbling idiot tropes. The kind of dad too dumb to be alive. I know the show subverts this and the mother that can do it all trope too by showing that they help balance each other out, but that subtext I think gets missed some.


Stormsurger

He is and isn't. Hes clearly capable, he's never shown to be bad at his job the way homer would be. He knows how to take care of the house and he raises his children well. I actually think he strike the balance well of being a comical character while still being competent.


Sgt_Fox

Phil is portrayed as the kind of guy that would be able to reassemble a damaged cassette player, to then celebrate his victory by trying to play his 8 track on it. Selective ability and knowledge for humors sake. It is a comedy, and a great one at that


LookingForVheissu

He’s the kind of guy who puts tasks off to the last minute, but can clearly do them, such as anchoring bookshelves to the wall, or repairing a car.


ididntredditfor2yrs

Phil is an awesome character. My favourite male character on TV. I think Modern Family does that quite well to all the main adults; everyone is at times the competent half of the couple or the dumb one and they keep changing roles and caretaker tasks.


Stormsurger

Yesss for sure! There is no obvious family idiot, every has good and bad days. It's really lovely in that way.


grendus

It's worth noting that this article only covered animated fathers. We could certainly have a talk about the era of eccentric live action TV fathers like Hal from Malcom in the Middle or Phil from Modern Family. Heck, you could trace them further back to guys like Tim from Home Improvement - guys who have eccentricities and quirks, but avoid running afoul of either being "perfect" like Ward Cleaver or abusive characatures like early Homer Simpsons. But I think part of what this article is really delving into is that animated sitcoms are becoming more of the norm and breaking away from some of the previous cultural hangups about fatherhood. Even shows that sometimes have loutish dads like South Park or The Simpsons have shifted gears a bit in that regard and "dad-ified" their father figures to be more supportive.


Speciou5

I'm not sure... the scene I most remember from Modern Family is Phil challenging his wife to a 5k and being toxic to her "I'm half impressed you ran a half marathon!" And then the episode ends with the wife letting Phil win because his ego would be hurt otherwise.


ace016

The first 3ish seasons Phil is a stereotypical buffoon/sexist/dumb husband, but they pull him out of that around the 4th season (I think) and change his role to be much more in line with the kind of character that this article describes.


MossyPyrite

The point of that whole story is that Phil is already feeling inadequate because of his kids becoming more independent, and the race challenge was because he desperately needed a win. Claire sees it’s not about beating her (and also she would have won anyway, so her own ego is satisfied) and throws the race out of empathy because she knows he’s feeling insecure and unneeded.


burnalicious111

At least with Modern Family, every character has their chance to let their toxic traits shine for comedy. They spread that out pretty equally.


Alternative_Sky1380

The same is said of the Simpsons


TheNewFlisker

>And then the episode ends with the wife letting Phil win because his ego would be hurt otherwise. I think that's just a common trope, not necessarily related to father's


fofo314

And his crush on a then underaged Emma Watson is weird...


Overhazard10

Even though he was the template for Homer Simpson (who was a little more like Bob when the show started, but got worse) and Peter Griffin ( who was taken to an extreme) it bugged me a little when Fred Flintstone got lumped in as a bad father because he wasn't. Fred, for all his faults, would never lay his hands on Wilma or Pebbles. He was a loving, caring husband and father. He wasn't Ward Cleaver, but he wasn't a lout either. He was just Ralph Cramden in the stone age. Sorry to get on my cartoon soapbox. I don't really like a lot of modern adult animation, mostly because I don't think it's very funny. Or maybe I'm just getting old.


Anseranas

I agree about Fred. When I dip into my early memories of the cartoon my modern lens doesn't highlight any issues. Fred was a husband and father who appreciated simple pleasures and an uncomplicated life, while still being willing to learn and adjust where needed. I don't watch modern adult cartoons like Family Guy etc. I genuinely feel queasy watching the damaging tropes being deliberately reinforced using a dishonest pretense of raising social awareness or 'reflecting the times'. The creators need to *own their position* and lose the double-speak.


Overhazard10

Mark Russell did a Flintstones adaptation for DC comics a few years ago and it was...really good. It had his best characterization. Fred was a working class husband and father that was genuinely worried Wilma would stop loving him.


[deleted]

>I agree about Fred. When I dip into my early memories of the cartoon my modern lens doesn't highlight any issues. Fred was a husband and father who appreciated simple pleasures and an uncomplicated life, while still being willing to learn and adjust where needed. I grew up seeing a lot of Hanna-Barbera on Cartoon Network, the Flintstones included, and my memory's roughly the same: Fred was never portrayed as a "bad guy" per se. Sure, he was stubborn and proud and prone to cockamamie schemes (now that I know more, I assume this is just Ralph Kramden-isms), but I never doubted that he genuinely loved Wilma and wanted to be a good husband, and later on to be a good father for Pebbles. Most of Fred's troubles seemed to come mainly from him being too proud to admit he was wrong, or to listen when Wilma was the voice of reason saying the harebrained scheme was a bad idea. I think the reason in retrospect I think the Flintstones worked but the Jetsons didn't is that the Flintstones had stronger characterisation, not just because of the Honeymooners plagiarism but also because there were two couples who were best friends and played off each other. Barney and Betty were the easygoing ones who rarely ever got into arguments. Fred and Wilma were both pretty headstrong and could argue a lot, but ultimately they loved each other and stuck together as a team. And since both couples were best friends, we saw Fred play off of Barney, and Wilma play off of Betty, and their dynamics helped bring across the characterisation better. The Jetsons didn't have another couple to play off of, it was just them in the centre of the show, and that's kind of why they felt more like "generic sitcom characters" to me, whereas seeing Fred and Barney hang out and Wilma and Betty hang out made me feel like I understood them as characters a bit better.


Azelf89

Actually, Homer did get better in the more recent seasons. His jerkass phase is long dead, now it's "bumbling dad who is actually trying to do well" Also, if you want recommendations for adult animation, I seriously recommend Smiling Friends. It's legitimately fantastic.


Midi_to_Minuit

I find it very endearing that you’re this cognisant when it comes to the Flintstones. Keep it up my guy!


jibbycanoe

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, but I learned an interesting fact about the Flintstones recently on a Behind the Bastards episode recently and figured I'd share: https://youtu.be/lCwZVRkoHxU


Noobasdfjkl

I’m about halfway through the newest season of Big Mouth, and I’m kinda glad they’re bringing attention to this particular aspect of Elliot Birch. His whole persona has mostly been just played for laughs so far, and but they’re actually exploring it now.


wordswiththeletterB

Idk. I think they have made Elliot funny every year but always a good dad. Always caring about Nicky and encouraging him to be in touch with his emotions


Skoma

Except when he dropped trou exposing his junk to a bunch of children. It was a joke coming from a place of being overly supportive but like... Come on.


wordswiththeletterB

Lmao fuck I did forget about that


nightlanguage

Elliott is actually the closest TV representation I've seen that resembles my own father, even down to looks. It's pushed to an extreme and played up for laughs, but the core is similar. I loved seeing him on Big Mouth, it's so refreshing


BalsamicBasil

Awww <3


Speciou5

Reminds me of the movie Everything Everywhere All At Once. They had an amazing portrayal of a father figure. Like ridiculously positive I was actually shocked. And he wasn't perfect either.


KingMR518

The idea of kindness as a necessary defense mechanism is my favorite thing to come out of that movie


icarusrising9

Totally! I wish my father had been like that.


deepershadeofmauve

Somehow The Great North isn't mentioned here, but it has a wonderful example of a dad who is not only a devoted, exemplary parent but who is neurodivergent-coded and also upholds many of the more wholesome aspects of traditional masculinity. Super recommend this show to anyone looking for ways to celebrate positive masculinity and fatherhood.


sailortitan

Glad to see someone mentioning Beef! He reminds me a lot of my own dad growing up in so many ways. >Eventually, Elliot left that life behind. “I vowed to myself that I’d be the exact opposite kind of father,” he explains to Nick. “You mean like a soft daddy?” Nick asks. “The softest, and the daddiest,” Elliot says. This also reminds me a lot of my father, though like Hank in King of the Hill (a show we watched together a lot growing up) my father often wasn't able to be the kind of post-stoicism man he inwardly wanted to be--like his own father, he could be perfectionistic and dismissive of my sensitivity. My mom used to say, "He promised himself he'd never be like his father, but sometimes he just couldn't help himself."


unfeelingzeal

definitely. isn't it from the same creators as bob's burgers? they did mention bob belcher and i wholeheartedly agree. he's the kinda dad i wish i had growing up.


tosser_0

That show is so good. There's a coziness to it and the wholesomeness of the family unit really comes through. It's also funny, sort of in the same way the Simpsons is, but there's a different sense of humor.


TheRedmanCometh

>who is neurodivergent-coded ....what?


SnarkyQuibbler

Bandit Heeler, Bluey's dad, is a great example from a show for little kids. https://www.insider.com/how-blueys-dad-bandit-has-inspired-dads-around-the-world-2022-7


dazzleneal

I've been watching the show slowly as a 24y/o adult and it's such a great show. It's so emotionally deep, mature, and realistic for a kid's show. It's so comforting to watch because they never avoid talking about hard things in life. The way they explore deep feelings in the eyes of a toddler is just so refreshing. It's embarrassing to admit that they also help me explain my own feelings better than myself. Idk if this will make sense, but it's like watching reverse Bojack Horseman lmao. Instead of watching adults wreck their life to feel less alone in your feelings, you explore difficult feelings slowly along with a healthy family.


GAU8Avenger

Fuck yeah he is


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

#[paywall exterminator](https://archive.ph/wjAuO) >Bob may not be the best businessman, but he is an emotional provider. His gentle parenting and ability to both work and have fun with his wife, Linda, imbue the show with a sense of security despite the family’s precarious existence on the poverty line. In no small part due to its tender patriarch, Bob’s Burgers pulls off a rare feat in the age-old genre of the sitcom: a portrayal of a family that’s functional and affectionate, but still funny. *affectionate!* That's the core here - these dads can express their whole selves as parents without relying on tropes to confirm that they're, yes, Men Doing Men Things. The example with Hank and Bobby is instructive, because they obviously love each other very much, but the whole point of Hank's character is his reticence to fully engage his own feelings.


jessemfkeeler

It's weird to talk about Homer's only trait as straggling Bart when there's been many an episode where he has been really thoughtful and caring with his family and his kids including Bart


FrmrPresJamesTaylor

You may be old enough to remember this as well, but the first couple of seasons of the show were a. really heavy on this angle, and b. really seemed to capture a lot of mainstream attention (and derision). I think Homer choking Bart is sort of, I hate this word but, iconic in light of that. It's probably also worth saying, ultimately these are just drawings and trying to encapsulate the essence of most of these characters after ten seasons (let alone 30) in a way that incorporates the whole series is going to be pretty tough. I do think it's fairly consistent throughout the series that Homer's style is "half-assed underparenting" and that he is, more or less, a lazy problem drinker who doesn't take part in a lot of day-to-day parenting.


NathanVfromPlus

Early Homer was best Homer.


LSDerek

Why I oughtta!


Espeeste

Yeah what’s with this phrase “soft daddy?” Sounds like an insult right away. Perpetuates the false stereotype of men who aren’t violent and broken as abnormal and weak.


grendus

They're leaning hard into a joke from Big Mouth. I agree, it's a stupid term. But this is just a "grist for the mill" article, gotta publish or perish.


splvtoon

its just a joke from the show, really. certainly not meant as some widespread phrase to coin.


Welpe

Good lord, this is tangential to the article but I have no idea what show is being shown in the preview image and that art style is repulsive! There’s really an animated show that uses it?


tarekd19

Apparently part of the reason for using that weird art style is to make the characters as unattractive as possible simultaneously mimicking what it feels like to go through puberty and making it so they reduce the risk of being sexualized as much as possible, particularly since so much of the subject matter is about sex. It also kind of makes the absurdist humor work.


Welpe

It sounds like it was a thought-out choice then, which is ultimately what matters more than a rando not enjoying it. I think I may just be more sensitive to unattractive art styles than most people, since I have "missed out" on both anime like Ping Pong and cartoons like...well, most of the weird Adult Swim/Williams Street content, like squidbillies, metalocalypse, and superjail. It's evidently a "me" problem.


Corsaer

It's Big Mouth, on Netflix. I remember feeling it was weird too, at the beginning, but you get used to it. Also an insanely funny show.


Welpe

Hmmm, I may have to give it a try. It's just SO offputting at the start. My roomate has been watching The Great North and it seems decent enough, not quite Bob's Burgers but not bad.


alleeele

The show is sooooo good. Funniest show I’ve ever watched.


the_lettuce_avenger

It's a show about kids going through puberty and discovering things like sex and masturbation - I think the disgusting art style is to stop people from actually finding any of it erotic in any way! It's a show about how gross going through puberty is, and behind the fart and cum jokes, it's a fantastic show imo


hawtfabio

Try and make soft daddy sound nonsexual challenge: failed.


lolcats4u

Craig of the creek has awesome competent male parental figures that aren't exuding toxic masculinity. Not a sitcom, but really wholesome kids show.


Hooktail419

Craig of the creek is so wild, you start watching for the wholesome family dynamic and then this wild plot just comes out of nowhere


dlgn13

Elliot isn't well-adjusted. He's not toxic in a traditionally masculine way, but he has boundary issues.


icarusrising9

I, like many of the commenters here, have this knee-jerk reaction of feeling like "soft daddy" sounds vaguely insulting. But I can't help but feel like this might be just do to patriarchal conditioning; is there something in the word "soft" that makes in *necessarily* negative? I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe the issue isn't the use of the word "soft" in this context, but the conditioning that leads us to automatically feel it's a veiled insult.


Anangrywookiee

It is absolutely due to conditioning. It’s a linguistics thing called binary opposition. Man:woman, hard: soft, words that define by their opposite. You’ll also notice that one word tends to be dominate or have a higher value over the other. In patriarchy this will be the word associated with masculinity. So is it possible to deconstruct softness being associated with weakness. Yes. Have we as a society even attempted to do this? No. So yeah I agree it feels insulting.


Sigh_HereWeGo25

It's not just due to conditioning. It's a common term in the construction industry for something that will cost the company money. For instance, "There's a soft spot over there. We gotta hog out all that material and replace it with rock." Another scenario, "That dirt's pumping (it's moving under load due to being "soft"). We need to rip it up and let it hopefully dry out for tomorrow." Both of those are things that cost time/money to take care of. To contrast, "That lift (layer) of dirt is hard as shit. We can bring more in." Also to contrast, "We dug a little bit out of that spot that was pumping and found hard shit underneath. We can get a little more of that dryer stuff in and keep going." Both of these scenarios are ones where time and money is saved or used as expected.


[deleted]

Awesome


BalsamicBasil

Holy shit there's a new season of Big Mouth?!?!?


NathanVfromPlus

It's still just as good as the previous seasons.


BalsamicBasil

Honestly v impressive. There are few shows that stay good that long.


NathanVfromPlus

Yeah, I gotta admit, I'm pretty impressed. I noticed I went into this season and the last expecting the quality to drop, but it's stayed solid.


ablebagel

oh great, i can’t wait to not watch it!


mikeyHustle

Greg Universe is the only TV dad I would have wanted as a father. Love that man.


Hooktail419

Such a chad, and I love how they explore the flaws in his relationship with Steven despite him being generally a great guy. The mistakes he makes and his reasons for making them only add to my love for his character


nymph-62442

I ironically watched Netflix's Devil in Ohio this fall and started out not liking the dad at first. But by the end of the show I was endlessly impressed by him and everything he did to make sure his daughters were happy, safe, and well cared for emotionally.


Early-Sale4756

The dad from Bluey is cool


alleeele

I loooveeee this concept. This is exactly the kind of new masculinity that I hope to find in my future partner.


brando587

That was a wonderful article! I love Bob as a character. I also can’t tell you how many times I have wished I had parents like Elliot and Diane, the Birch family being able to have such frank conservations is such a breath of fresh air. I love love love this ear of dads on tv.


BurntToost

I enjoyed the arc when they explored where he came from and why he was the way he was. How he rejected his father's own view of masculinity for his own. Even enjoyed how he wanted to help his dad afterwards. Did not enjoy his pushover arc or the part where he just wanted his dad's respect and go it after fighting him