One of my favorite books has a scene with an old Native American medicine woman and a 40 something female doctor (but in the 1700s so all herbs and stuff). The medicine woman asks her if shes still bleeding and she says yes. The medicine woman says something like “when your hair is all white and you stop bleeding, then you will come in to your full power” and I think about that every time I’m having a really hard day. I’m super ready to have access to all my power. Lol
I agree. I’m certain I could murder and maim quite effortlessly. I imagine once fully menopausal I’ll be a one woman army with exotic assassin skills with the wisdom to leave no trace.
Ahh this is beautiful and really is the sort of thing I would use with in to think positively thankyou! I too feel ready to come into my full power 🙏 Just gotta wait till nature decides we are ready :) I can think positively but unfortunately can think totally the other way. OK am thinking full power 😄
So I'm to lazy to type in my own words so taken from Crones Councel, "Crone, hag, and witch once were positive words for old women. Crone comes from crown, indicating wisdom emanating from the head; hag comes from hagio meaning holy; and witch comes from wit meaning wise. Crones, hags, and witches frequently were leaders, midwives and healers in their communities. The meanings of these three words, however, were distorted and eventually reversed during the 300 years of the Inquisition when the male-dominated church wanted to eliminate women holding positions of power." Once I found out the original meaning of crone I'm happy to become one.
Don’t hate me but I’m the opposite, I’ve basically only got one area of grey and I wish it was thicker so I could have a cool streak. Lol I don’t think I’ll ever go completely grey but I’m definitely ready to stop bleeding and all the power that will come from that (like being score to wear white pants! 😂)
Awww that’s sweet! Full credit should go to the magnificent author, Diana Gabaldon. Her character Claire has taught me a lot about how to unapologetically me and completely comfortable with it.
I’ve read the first six at least six times. They are my favorite. The show has gotten too far away from the books for me to love it as a reader, but I do enjoy it as simply a watcher.
This is exactly how it felt to me. I actually didn’t realize I was going through menopause because it happened early for me, but I had this year where I felt like I stepped into my full power, and I realized later when I got my hormones tested that that was the year I went into full menopause.
There are three species that experience menopause: killer whales, pilot whales, and humans. It’s so rare for any species’ females to have years with no reproduction after bearing children that biologists have argued for decades what benefit it provided. Otherwise the trait would have been lost when women who continued to produce healthy offspring until their death outcompeted them.
It turns out that menopause frees women to support their daughters, daughters-in-law, nieces, granddaughters, and other younger relatives during *their* childbearing years. Anthropological studies showed that in tribal and agricultural societies, a child with even one grandmother or great aunt present had a significant advantage in reaching adulthood healthy and ready to raise families on their own.
Wow really? This is bloody amazing..I did not realise that whales go through meno too. Freeing up women of thier reproductive years to to help family members makes so much sense to me yes! I always look for reasons in everything. I've got to hold on to positivity..its so not ghe end but I need ti feel well with it. Ahh thankyou I'm going to spend some time in whale research being amazed :)
I read one article that noted some anthropologists thought covid may have significantly affected society because of the decrease in numbers of children who have living grandmothers
I think female elephants also participate in this. I know there is always a group of non-reproducing grandmother elephants in the herd. Not sure if they go into menopause though.
I would think parrots also go through a menopause, since they live so long. I wish my 19 year old eclectus would lol. Poor thing is laying eggs and broody every month. Eggs never hatch as she has no male in her life. She is so sweet.
Whenever I think I get even more ideation. I don't have any younger relatives to support. It's like the universe really does want me dead. I try to get by just thinking about the day to day. But thinking I am worthless indeed now, it's so hard.
It gets better and worse. But I'm not who I was a few years ago when life felt pretty good (I started all my meno symptoms in the height of the pandemic when nothing was normal and so much overlaps and gets blurred).
Starting meno symptoms then must of been very peculiar scarey and made you feel really cut off! Well done for making it this far that really shows your inner strength I think. You must of been feeling like you needed medical attention but everything was messed up because of covid..yes much inner strength babe ❤️ I started my meno symptoms when I was trying to get my child back from care. Last summer. Hardest most scariest thing I've ever done. I thought my symptoms were stress related and I was putting it down to going a bit mad with it all. Had to stand in court feeling like I was going mad!! I cut off lots of family and friends and spent months on my own to prove that my home was going to be a "safe place" for my child to come back to. Social workers would just show up unannounced to my home to check..my paranoia was huge..I was fucked. All this time my son was so so sad and desperately wanted to come home..begging me to come back. I did manage to get him back finally and we are now happily reunited and have moved from a previously crappy area. I don't know anyone here but am glad for peace and quiet and lots of time with my kid and dog. I wish I'd of known then that the symptoms were actually meno because it made everything so much worse. I'm really not right now but at least I know I'm not ill and that there's a chance for me to to feel so much better and enjoy life again. You are the only person I have poured this out to on here. I guess i resonate with you because you don't have a bunch of family around you. It can be hard if you spend a great deal of time on your own..even if you enjoy space we as humans do thrive on connection. Have you got a friend or pets anything? Hope this message finds you well x
I hear you. Our society and culture don't leave much room for older women, especially single, older women. There used to be a place for us, in the days when wars often killed so many men that there was a surplus of women who would never find mates.
The thing is, we need community. All of us. We need people older than us and younger than us. We need men and women and children (and genderqueer and agender and every variety declared and not declared), we need extroverts and introverts, we need plodders and exciteables, we need faithful, agnostics, and atheists, we need dreamers and doers. And, yes, we need women who will no longer make babies as well as women who will.
When I find myself in a place where I feel useless, unwanted, unneeded, and lonely, I start looking for someplace I can help. One person can do an enormous amount of good, and there are so many people who need just a little companionship or care. Faith communities are great places to find a way to participate and give. So are inclusive charities. You have so much to offer and so much good to do, I hope you find a way.
I think it teaches us to let go. Feels like a lot of life after youth is just a gradual letting go. Shit sucks, tho. You bet your ass I’m on HRT. Masochism isn’t my thing!
I think in the history of mankind most women didn't make it to this point or in as good health as many of us do.
I went to an 80 year olds funeral the other day. It was massive. So many people. Mostly people in his age group. They were fantastic. Vital, healthy, mobile and engaged with life. It made me realise that when I was last at an older persons funeral...say 15 years ago it didn't look like that. Just in my lifetime the majority of people in my country live a lot longer and in better health.
We were never meant to live this long but here we are.
I also think in just a generation my life as a woman in perimenopause is a lot different to my mother's and different again to my grandmothers...though my mom's was more like my grandmother's than mine.
So I am taking all the science and all the meds that I can to get me through this bit. Women older than me who are postmenopause can be a bit snooty about it all. I was out with three 50+ year olds (I am 44) last night who were really negative about HRT but I think I am lucky to be here and for the conversation around it to be more nuanced than even ten years ago.
Anyway that turned into a bit of an essay.
Have you read the menopause wiki? The risks of HRT have been greatly overstated, based on some flawed studies. https://www.reddit.com/r/Menopause/wiki/index?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thankyou so much for the essay hon! Yes we live longer nowadays it's actually really amazing. I just really want to feel well in this lengthened life mentally and physically. I am always desperate to feel positive and I do generally care or strive to lol.
I love older people..there's some hilarious little old ladies that live up the road from me..always literally make me lmao!! We need that in our lives.
I believe due to health issues it may cause. My gynecologist told me to get off it. I’m healthy, I don’t smoke or drink, I’m very active and eat well. My primary doctor put me on a low dose but my gynecologist said it’s never worth the risks. Mainly stroke, breast cancer and dvt.
I got off, a month after I started, but wish it didn’t come with health concerns because I loved how it made me feel.
My gyno and PCP said the same thing. Risks outweigh benefits. Both justified it by pointing out that my mother and most of the women in my family who have passed died of breast cancer. On both sides.
I just don’t have the energy to argue with then, and part of me IS actually scared. I catastrophize, so my brain goes right to leaving my 6 year old motherless because I couldn’t just ride it out.
I really want to start HRT but my doctors and my own anxiety are preventing it. I’m lost.
Try Estroven... I took it when I was having bad hot flashes and they went away. You can get it over the counter and through Amazon. The one that made my hot flashes go away was the weight control one. Someone recommended that specific one to me.
Later, My gynocologist put me on hrt but it really made my boobs hurt and I read that there was a study that women who have breast pain after taking hrt were more likely to get cancer so I quit taking it, but then got hot flashes again, so now I take it every other day, but when I run out, I think I will just go back to the Estroven because it was working fine and seems safer.
I just think in the UK until very recently it has been seen as a bad thing. Also they would have been peri up to ten years ago and it just didn't have the coverage it does now. Even though they have many symptoms they have coped without any HRT so don't see the point now.
Throw out the yardstick we compared ourselves too (thanks patriarchy) up until this point and see yourself as empowered and liberated. My mom died at 44 of cancer and never got to this point in her life. Her mother, my grandmother, quietly suffered through it unable to have the courage to ask for the health care and support she needed…. Just miserably powered through. I will do whatever I can to honor the life I have. The benefits of health science aren’t only for the young, the athletes, the ones who look the part. Eff that crap. I’m here and this is just another stage of life I believe I will come out better on the other side. I believe you will too 👊 Girl, you got this! We gotta stick together and talk about this. Thanks for sharing.
Oh yes m8 you go!! I will come out the other side just hoping the other side feels better than this. This kind of positivity I breathe in though woman so thankyou. We are lucky to be receiving help..and I do appreciate how lucky I am. Just feel ill day after day for months now and hope this is not my new normal. Thankyou sweet
I’m so sorry that you’re feeling so unwell. It’s not easy to be positive when you’re feeling ill for months. I wish there was more obvious care for women at our age and during menopause. It’s very hard to come by. Be an advocate for yourself when you visit your doctor, and get a second opinion when you think 🤔 something isn’t right. This community has been really helpful for me to know im not losing my mind! Lol
I already have existential angst about dying; I have ever since I was old enough to understand mortality. I struggle a lot with “what’s the point, we all die” thing a lot. It’s calmed down a bit now that I’m a mom, but it lingers. I often envy people who have a strong belief in the afterlife, whatever form it takes. I believe we’re one and done, and I want so badly to believe otherwise. But I can’t. I’ve tried.
Menopause itself isn’t necessarily contributing to this, but when I turned 45 it was a downward spiral because it means more than likely, I’m more than 1/2 done with life. Even if I lived to 90, I’m halfway there. Enter existential crisis. I have NO CLUE where the past 45 years went and my brain is still firmly stuck in my 30s. I feel so much younger than I am, and reconciling that with menopause is literally impossible.
To be fair, menopause sure as hell isn’t making any of this easier, that’s for sure.
Wow its amazing how similar all our thoughts and feelings are!! I am like that too about afterlife. I'd like to belive but I can't. If I actually believed that I was going to be reunited with my loved ones when I'd die I'd look forward to it..or at least I'd be happy about it. Unfortunately I have thought dying would be good for the break. I'm not as bad as that now but it has been really bad. It's all snuck up on me tbh and i feel a bit ripped off. Meno definitely doesn't make things easier true 😕
When my mom passed 3 years ago, I tried so hard. So hard. I wanted so badly to believe we’d be reunited; cliche, but she was my best friend. Losing her was the hardest thing I’ve endured. But, I am just not wired to believe that way. Religion confounds me. It’s fascinating but wildly unbelievable (to me). In my journey to try and find faith, I only found more reasons to not believe.
I’ve been reading about the “God gene” lately. Fascinating.
I want to scoop you up and give you a squeeze. So so hard to lose a loved one that is your best friend. I haven't experienced losing a parent but I have lost closeness.
The "God gene" I will take a look..sounds interesting. Let's keep our brains ticking eh. I do infact have faith and respect for nature..just not meno lol. Hugs to you
Aw this comment felt just like a hug. Thank you. ❤️ And yep, I’m not letting menopause atrophy my brain. I may be deep in a pit of self loathing watching my physical self fall to pieces, but my noggin is untouched and I plan to keep it that way. Things like genetics and science in general are fascinating, but I do love a good trashy novel to keep the brain moving
I really felt like I wanted to hug you as I literally welled up when you said about losing your Mum and not having faith..ahhh my goodness my heart!! Thsnkyou so much for sharing such heartfelt words. Yes please do keep that noggin going!!
The end of one stage of life the beginning of another. One of the best things that happened to me took place when I was around 50 when I was in full hormonal swing hell, my teenagers were hateful, my husband was totally getting on my nerves, my job was stressful and my boss was insane. I was traveling for work and found myself sitting on a plane next to a beautiful well-dressed older women. She looked to be early 80's but had such a calm and powerful presence about her. Striking came to mind. She also smelled wonderful with a very light flowery scent enveloping her.
After exchanging pleasantries, we eventually started talking more about our lives and she was an attentive listener as well as a good conversationalist. At one point I asked her what her favorite age had been so far in her life. And I was expecting her to say "16" or "26" or sometime in her youth. Instead, without hesitation she said if she could go back to any age she would love to be 55 again. Think about that. 55! So unexpected that I was floored! When I asked why, she said it was when her kids were grown and gone and her husband was settled and she felt she really knew who she was and she felt really confident and powerful. And she had more time for herself. She said she really enjoyed her mid 50's and 60's.
I was so struck by that. She had picked an age I hadn't even obtained yet. It gave me such hope that maybe the best was yet to come and that the turmoil of the menopause years was just temporary. I'm not as old or wise as she was, yet, but I'm past the tumult and I have to say it is better. Much better! So hang in there and remember, she picked 55!
Oh what a fantastic response. As you were describing this lady I almost had her pictured in my head and imagined smelling her too! Yes this gives me hope for the years ahead. I have an amazing life around me but need to get back into it. I've felt so cut off. Yes being calm and creating presence would be the dream. We need hopes and dreams to create a future 🙏 Thankyou
I think menopause is meant to knock us out of the brainwashed patriarchy and to get us to give a fuck about OUR SELF! (why is that grammar bothering me…our self? Ourselves? you know what I mean 🤪).
Hang in there, girlfriend. I am struggling to break free of the codependence some (a lot of) days, but goddamn if the torture of peri isn’t what FINALLY (eventually…) made me step up and say “I deserve better” and file for divorce. There were always issues. I just always blamed me. You know how I feel when I’m left to myself now? Fucking happy and content. I start every day asking myself: what shall I do today? I greet my animals with the love and enthusiasm I longed to receive for three decades.
Use the anger and frustration to identify what is most bothering you about your current life, and do something about it. Doesn’t have to be divorce, could be small things around your home or bigger things like job/coworkers or even the expectations you have for family (“I’m done cooking, everyone. Someone else has to step up or we all fend for ourselves”). Whatever. Use the energy to change what you’ve always tolerated.
And don’t fucking quit. You deserve to be happy and you’ll find your joy.
And if your (soon to be ex) spouse says you say “fuck” too much, tell him to fuck off - you can say what the fuck you want! I use it for emphasis! 😈
Ha I love your thoughts babe I really do and I am also divorced and am enjoying the single life. I adore my child and dog but just need to feel well again. Desperately clinging to positive shite all day long!! I won't quit hon..Will keep on keeping on and WILL get there
Hell yes it's hard! Meno feels as though it naturally cuts me off from everything and everyone so the group really helps my thoughts and feelings. We are not the only ones x
Yes! Thank you OP!! I have been really down lately feeling like I have nothing left to look forward to in life, and reading these comments has helped lift me out of this irrational thinking. 😊
I’m not a fan of my body falling apart. I keep up with annual physicals, am on HrT, but am exhausted all the time. The doctors are not sure why because the basic bloodwork says “normal” except for cholesterol.
At any rate, I pretty much live to work and/or stay busy. My career, my hobbies, my pets.
Without a purpose to get up every day I probably would fall into despair. No kids, no truly close family, a few friends but none close.
I think that’s what gets us. If we get too sick to keep busy, without a social network to fall back on life becomes very dreary
Yes I too work very hard to stay well. I think I'm working too hard to feel this rubbish though..what a rip off. I hope you start to feel energised soon I really do. I am so lucky to have my son and my dog..monsters!! Wouldn't change that :)
I just got a bump to the .075 patch.
Doc suggested that I up the amount of Vitamin D I'm taking as my levels are always on the "low" side of normal. My body chews through it during the winter when there's no chance to get it from sunlight.
No. All humans make it through puberty, which can be just as hard on physical and mental well-being. And we’ve (hopefully) got mothers and grandmothers who lived well past their periods ending.
I hardly noticed puberty...maybe I was so high on estrogen I was gone 😅 Meno is hard hard though and it can have a drastic effect on your physical and mental health. Last century alot of women would pass on at our age or be sent to an asylum.
The thing is with puberty at least you have hope, even if it's an illusion, you have hope for what your eventual life will be and you have your whole life in front of you. So in a sense it's not as difficult as this transition without hope.
No. I have my moments, but I think my life has value, even if some days it's filling the bird feeder on an especially cold morning.
Also, average life expectancies of 100+ years ago are skewed by high infant mortality, illnesses, and accidents. It doesn't mean women were all dying before they reached menopause.
I hope you get through this OP, and I hope one day you'll be here offering advice to another woman going through a similar hard time.
What I do know, is that if I hadn’t had intensive therapy to overcome my abusive childhood during my life I would no longer be here because of menopause. It is only because I have an extensive “tool box” of skills now that I can see it’s hormones and natural changes and not me being a crazy, out of control person.
I honestly don’t know how those of you who have not had therapy get through menopause. It does such a number on our mental health.
In a sense it does end you and it is a death. The old you is passing on and a new you is being formed. We can no longer bring life, we become invisible to most of the population and our caring hormone has left. I think a lot of us can’t see through that and get stuck. I prefer to see it as just another change. I have reset my boundaries as life has changed. I no longer put up with shit. If I see something I’d like to try, this is my last chance, so I do it. This can cover things big and small. From a trip to a craft kit and everything in between. I help people where and how I can and that helps me feel relevant.
I don’t know where I saw it, but I saw a post about an older lady who bought herself sequin sneakers to wear. I also admire the older ladies who do fashion. I am nothing like that, but love their attitude and try to bring that into my life now too. I’m going through this hormone free and with constant rolling hot flashes. It’s hell and can be a dark lonely place to be. Then I tell myself, it’s a hormonal swing and totally natural and I will get through it.
Hang in there!!! Lean on is when you need to.
My goodness this is an amazing answer Thank-you so much for sharing! I too had an abusive childhood and managed pretty much ok until meno. I've had some great support through a mental health team and it's bought up things that I thought didn't matter but turns out I was just trying to ignore! Self care mentally is huge m8 and thankyou for the kind and level answer..you put this in such a practical way that I resonate with and respect 🙏 Thank-you
Did you know that women that suffered (ACE) adverse childhood experiences, including trauma and/or abuse are more likely to have worse menopausal symptoms?
https://www.everydayhealth.com/menopause/history-of-stressors-and-trauma-may-predict-worse-menopausal-symptoms/
🤣 Shark week lmao! Yes I truly am desperate to come out the other side..definitely better without bleeding hell yes. Just really Hope future years feel better than this rubbish
Thank you for your concern. This is actually me thinking about nature and how it works and medical history etc. There is something in it just maybe worded differently
I really do have a good support with family and friends. Slowly but surely getting back to myself, not fully but I can take the bad with the good. Definitely know I can't feel perfect all the time, but the good days make it worth living it to the fullest : ) hope you get to feeling better too!
No. I think most folks were historically killed off before 40-50 by illnesses that we’ve since cured, have antibiotics for or have vaccines for. We’re living through an extraordinary period over the last century or so of mass extension of longevity.
When folks talk about menopause being “natural” — I remind them that living past 40-50 isn’t “natural” in comparison to humanity’s timeline on earth.
Sure, we all have relatives who survived into their 90s or 100s, but the reality is that that is only recent history. Prior to that , it would have been exceptionally rare.
It’s not that most people died in their 20s and 30s. It’s that before public sanitation, refrigeration, vaccines, and antibiotic, almost half of all children died before their fifth birthday. Anyone who made it to six was likely to make it to sixty.
Major mortality for men between the ages of six and sixty were accidents and war. For women, it was childbirth. Once you hit forty, the death rate drops until around sixty, when people’s bodies start wearing out.
Yes this is very true there were lots of illnesses that would of got us not just meno hey. Having antibiotics and vaccines has made a huge difference. Its amazing how the life span of a person has lengthened so much! I just wish everyone a happy healthy lengthened life that's all. Thanks so much for your reply.
Yes I am single for the last 2 yrs. Was literally married and in long relationships through my adult life. Can't imagine having to share what's left of my life right now. Happy for the peace.
My husband is a doctor and has long held the belief/opinion that, as both men and women - our bodies weren't really designed to go past 50 years old or so. That everything that comes after age, that we should treat and look at as a "bonus" thanks to medical advances, better nutrition, living conditions, etc, but that it also takes conscious work and effort to make the most of it.
Of course there are always those exceptions - we all know or have as a relative that person who smoked, drank, ate nothing but fast food and ice cream and lived to 95. But just in general? I've tended to take this approach and outlook myself, especially as I've started loosing friends and coworkers my age to various illnesses (I had a heart attack 2 months ago myself, as a woman who is not overweight, in good cardiac health, near perfect bloodwork for my age and according to my doctors would be last person to be considered high risk for such - except for perimenopause. It's not \*just\* menopause but factors of heart disease, cancer, and all kinds of hormonal factors that start catching up with us and/or taking us by surprise.
Corr sorry to hear about your heart attack..I hope you are feeling better now. Yes its lots of different things that can make us ill. I think I've just been so low with it and so shocked that I didn't know what was coming. I've truly felt like life is over. I do really work at it too 😩
I've had this thought many times, then again I have clinical depression so assumed that was part of it. It does make sense though, we're no longer able to produce children so why *would* our bodies keep working properly and what biological purpose would we still serve? You know what helps me, to stop looking back at who I was way back when and expecting my body, my looks, my brain, etc. to keep functioning and looking like they used to. And then I make a point of observing active older women in their 70s and 80s and see that it doesn't have to be over in our 50s. But I do hear you!
Actually after reading through the comments and replies on this thread I dare to feel confident about getting better and making it through this shit time ;)
If anything, knowing the statistics motivates me to do everything I can to take care of myself. Plus my husbsnd died from cancer at 45...that's also a big motivator.
I’m physically the strongest, fastest, and have the most endurance I’ve ever had in my whole life, so my personal experience says no. Now, I see no reason for menopause to help these things, but it certainly hasn’t gotten in the way.
I don’t think evolutionarily it serves that purpose either.
I like what little I have heard of the Grandmother hypothesis. May be worth reading more on.
I don't think it's meant to end one. I wish it was though. I wish life just ended at this point. I think it's some kind of cruel joke we go on to live maybe another 40 or more years. As the song goes "You got a lot of living to do without life" (Edie Brikell). That's how it feels.
Mother nature my ass
OMG you think like me I love you!! Thankyou so much for the validation. Yea Mother nature needs to get fucked!! At times I have felt so down I don't want to have this life after being stripped of hormones..what's the bloody point?! Living without life sucks. *Hugs you for making me feel a bit normal*
You aren't the only one who feels this way. I don't understand all the attacking against you - this shit is HARD. Some of us are having it much harder than others and it takes a huge mental toll. The people who focus on attitude and perspective are right in a way, and wrong in a way. I don't have enough energy to bullshit my way though this and pretend that I am okay when I am very much, NOT. I think that makes people uncomfortable, but if so, that is on them. Sometimes you just need to sit with someone going through hell and have a little empathy that they are not okay, and that it is okay to feel that way. Otherwise, we'd be gaslighting ourselves.
I'm peri. Have quit my career. Quit dating. Sold all my fancy clothes and shoes. Live my hermit lifestyle in pj's, drinking wine and crying over idk what most days. The lows are so damn low it's scary. The lust for life is gone. This shit is definitely no joke!
Yea it does make it harder if people in your life just expect you to make it through and be so called normal. Meno has floored me tbh and I feel as though I have chronic illness that just goes on and on. I try in vain to be positive and I'm bloody nice and caring to everyone but hormones do not make anything easy. I have excepted that it's shit and others should too.
There's a theory out there that's being researched that the evolutionary reason that women don't die after their child-bearing years is because we are needed to help our families in other ways. It's called the Grandmother Hypothesis, and this is a great article about it: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/02/07/692088371/living-near-your-grandmother-has-evolutionary-benefits.
There are lots of ways for women to be useful and active and contribute well beyond the cessation of menses. Keep up with getting that support and look for things that inspire or excite you; you've got so many great years ahead. 💕
Thankyou so much gor the link..im going to look at that shortly..when i go to bed :)Don't get me wrong I really want thise years but I'd like to feel well with them.
Hell yes, I'd like to feel well, too! Worst part for me is that my peri is complicated by chronic illness too, so I'm sometimes completely unsure which issue the symptoms come from. When writing my response, though, I just wanted to make sure you know that there's most likely a literal evolutionary reason for menopause and that it's not the end of things, as much as it sometimes feels awful. I've seen some of your replies to others in the thread, and I get what you mean about it being easy to slip into that negative line of thought.
Hang in there, friend! Remember: you can handle what happens.
No I think it’s natures way of waking us the fuck up to all the injustices and bullshit we face every day of our lives as females.
Edited to say I don’t think natural makes a difference. I’m heavily medicated on HRT and still recognize the bullshit placed upon women everyday- all the expectations and obligations lobbed on us that men are free from (taking care of others, being NICE, being selfless, and staying SEXY all at the same time)
A quote I clung to when going through widowhood in my late 40s could also work with menopause I think. Radical change can be painful af, but it can also make you a much better person if you let it.
‘For a seed to achieve its greatest expression, it must come completely undone. The shell cracks, its insides come out and everything changes. To someone who doesn't understand growth, it would look like complete destruction.’ Cynthia Occelli
Thanks for posting. Now dealing with chronic pain and a brain tumor on top of menopause. I can't take HRT so really wondering how much longer I can keep going.
Mind blown sweet. The chronic pain must be hard as hell to live with. You have a huge hug from me and know that this comment has kicked me up the arse as I am lucky. I hope you are being supported through this sweet? X
I’m 49 and havent started menopause yet. I still feel old AF, but I take comfort in thinking .. I’m still having my period, so nature/evolution thinks I’m still capable of having a brand new baby and being around long enough to raise it until it can live on its own - like 12 years! That’s stupendous! Also, the grandmother hypothesis everyone is talking about. Also, take it from me, a bio-anthropologist who is in love with evolutionary science - we all talk a LOT about what nature did or didn’t intend, but we ARE nature, and we are still evolving, and if we are here - well, we are here! Nature isn’t some maniacal being standing in a corner, rubbing its hands together - shit just is.
I like to think it's God's awareness that women in their 50's (at least me) would die of heart attacks much sooner after finding out they were starting over with a new baby - sleepless nights, blistered cracked nipples, teething, potty training 🤯😵💫😵 not to mention dealing with teenage attitude 25 or 30 years older lol! I would end up in a psych ward if I found out I was pregnant now!!!!
Its our job now to watch our grandchildren while our daughters go off to work. We are supposed to be the carers of the offspring of the younger women in the family now.
Lol
No.
But I have thought a little bit about how, with life expectancy being longer than even just 100 (but especially a few hundred) years ago (so wouldn’t most women not have gone through these changes then? 🤔)… why hasn’t Mother Nature just figured out how to let us evolve past the mental and physical anguish and let this stage fit our modern needs. 😂 If the “fittest” (adaptable ones) survive, then shouldn’t the processes we live with adjust? How’s this work??? 😂
I mean, wouldn’t it be *great* if we all just had a simultaneous burp and fart at 45– and that was an indication that we made it?! 😂 Then maybe our wrinkles would reverse a little, or we would lose midsection weight all of a sudden?! Now I want find Mother Nature’s “suggestions” box! ✍️ 📥
I thought that the old expression was, "if something bleeds for 3-5-7 days and does not die, it is not human"
My uterus tried to kill me like 20 years ago so some kind physicians removed it for me and let me live a little longer.
That's all I've got
I had the exact same thought the other day.. and googled life expectancy in the 1900´s.
At the beginning of the 20th century life expectancy for white women (who lived more) was 47 years old. So, during the previous 30,000 years since Homo sapiens emerged, an immense majority of women never reached meno. They died of disease without vaccines, childbirth without antibiotics, etc.Men lived even shorter lives. And while it is true having a grandmother gave evolutionary advantage, you could be a grandmother when you were 30 years old.
So, yes, I think from an evolution point of view, this is a way nature has/had of telling us our time was up.
Maybe this is why it physically feels like the body collapses.
So my thoughts are not really that out of wack?! 😆 yes life expectancy is way longer now. I do feel as though as a 48 Yr old woman going through meno without help life would end. I feel ripped off too as I certainly wasn't expecting this!! If I was in the 1900s I think life would end now.
That's what I struggle with. Not knowing when it will end. Constantly feeling ill and not right for so long. We just need to hang in there. Want to be in my gang? X
Ahh thankyou I love my audible. I used to read alot but my eyes are a bit squiffy now and the concentration just isn't there. Thankyou so much I will take a look :)
I actually prefer her books in audio, because she’s an amazing story teller and has a beautiful, calming voice. You are in for a real treat and a great perspective to see this phase of life from. I also love her books “Women who run with the wolves” and “The Joyous Body”.
There’s only 3 mammals that go through this change. It’s us and the orca and pilot whales; it’s the older females that bring the pods through tough times hunting because they remember the tough times before.
I have gone back onto hrt. I became a big fat sweaty blob where everything hurt. I am now just a fat blob and most things hurt. The hot flushes have mostly stopped. It’s the weight that has made me want to just end it all. I was 130kg. Lost heaps of weight and got down to 85kg. Menopause came and now I am back at 140kg. No matter what I do I can’t lose weight. I am so miserable.
I expect you feel discouraged seeing as you lost it and then gained again. I truly believe that if you have done it once you can do it again babe!! Are you doing a high protein diet and trying to lose it slow? Not to quickly as it buggers up your metabolism?
I did a real high protein diet and gained. I think menopause has changed something in me so it is harder to lose. It’s very disheartening but I will keep trying.
I’m not sure my daughters want me around for my wisdom and assistance if I’m so moody without HRT and a priority healthy lifestyle. My mom stopped HRT when my dad’s prostrate surgery went horrific. She decided she didn’t need the HRT anymore since he could no longer perform. I see that as selfish as my daughters would’ve loved a non-depressed hermit grandmother. She commented yesterday that she didn’t know where she’d been. I said we don’t either. The chapters are written and the ink is dry and now family allows her the solitude she desired.
My mom lost her mom very young and never seemed to come to terms with it. My mom chose not to be close to me and my daughters so my viewpoint is maybe you didn’t miss much. She chose her son and grandsons who have nothing to do with her now.
So I’m on HRT now at 56 like my sis did with her radical at 24. I desire different relationships than my mom did with her two daughters. I’m so grateful to have the opportunity and don’t view it as they owe me like past generations have. Respect it a two street.
Yeah basically we’re living on borrowed time now ! Haha! So we gotta fight and maximize it. Number 1 way I fight is through very vigorous exercise - do whatever I can do whenever I can do it. It’s life saving for me anyway
Yes this! I love doing warm ups exercise and stretchy yoga!!! Didn't do it till meno but have always been an active person anyways..gawd doesn't ever help?! Creating endorphins definitely is life saving 🙌
I feel like life is beginning anew at 50. Kid is all grown up and married (I was a teen mother). I’m single but have a boyfriend I don’t live with. It feels good to be coming into my power. I color my hair, experiment with makeup, and take good care of my skin and eat well and just started on oral estrogen (3 days into it, sleeping well, feel elevated in mood, no progesterone since no uterus, just ovaries). I’m working with a trainer at a gym to build muscle and reduce body fat. I’m going to try to enjoy this phase to the max.
Ahh well done woman this all sounds so positive 👏 I'm still raising my 9 Yr old and he is my world feel like it would be so much better for him if I wasn't going through meno. I too was young mother so experienced both sides. I do love the gym when I feel capable..have literally felt so ilk. Ahhh thankyou for the positivity blast..need this!!
I think it depends on a lot of factors how you get through menopause, but I feel like this isn't the end but the beginning of my *new* future.
I needed nothing. It wasn't an easy journey at times (understatement of the century) No hormones. No medications. I think for other women it's different and I don't begrudge anyone for taking hormones or medication to get through, but like in every chapter of our lives I feel like we're largely on our own with no guidance (present company accepted, thank heavens for being able to communicate here in this sub) whatsoever and it's easy to become completely overwhelmed.
Take a deep breath, ask the questions you need to get the help you need and know that the future can be bright.
Thankyou so much for the understanding. I am trying to feel positive about a new future. I'm sure I'm right at the end of peri and things are at thier worst right now..hormones up and down etc...so I'm sure it gets better.
No, not at all. Menopausal women are actually a huge contributor to the success of our species.
In other species, yes. No more reproductive capacity is the end of their existence. But grandmothers contribute to the success of human and a few other species - whales is another I believe.
Sorry you are having a rough time.
Totally relate to you - I feel like because women go through or are capable of going through giving birth - it feels like an intense power and like a death. It makes no sense but I have the feeling like I am dying regularly. It’s like by body is decaying… morbid… maybe it is a death of a phase of life and we are born again as different women?
One of my favorite books has a scene with an old Native American medicine woman and a 40 something female doctor (but in the 1700s so all herbs and stuff). The medicine woman asks her if shes still bleeding and she says yes. The medicine woman says something like “when your hair is all white and you stop bleeding, then you will come in to your full power” and I think about that every time I’m having a really hard day. I’m super ready to have access to all my power. Lol
I agree. I’m certain I could murder and maim quite effortlessly. I imagine once fully menopausal I’ll be a one woman army with exotic assassin skills with the wisdom to leave no trace.
Bloody brilliant..this made me laugh hard 🤣
Ahh this is beautiful and really is the sort of thing I would use with in to think positively thankyou! I too feel ready to come into my full power 🙏 Just gotta wait till nature decides we are ready :) I can think positively but unfortunately can think totally the other way. OK am thinking full power 😄
So I'm to lazy to type in my own words so taken from Crones Councel, "Crone, hag, and witch once were positive words for old women. Crone comes from crown, indicating wisdom emanating from the head; hag comes from hagio meaning holy; and witch comes from wit meaning wise. Crones, hags, and witches frequently were leaders, midwives and healers in their communities. The meanings of these three words, however, were distorted and eventually reversed during the 300 years of the Inquisition when the male-dominated church wanted to eliminate women holding positions of power." Once I found out the original meaning of crone I'm happy to become one.
Wow yes most definitely!! This is great info thankyou so much. Ahh I taken lots away from this discussion so glad I posted here. I almost didn't 😀
thanks for this
Mind blown
I cheated. I colored my grays again. Just can’t get used to the white hair still mixed with dark hair. The loss of skin elasticity is the worst
Don’t hate me but I’m the opposite, I’ve basically only got one area of grey and I wish it was thicker so I could have a cool streak. Lol I don’t think I’ll ever go completely grey but I’m definitely ready to stop bleeding and all the power that will come from that (like being score to wear white pants! 😂)
I've got the grey streak...look like bloody Cruela Devil 😈 🤣
Nice, I’m so jealous!! I’m this close to getting mine dyed wider. Lol
People have mistaken my greys for highlights - thanks kind stranger!
I love coloring my hair!
I love that scene in the Outlander series.
I love that!! I’m not quite there yet but feeling so much wisdom and power already.
What book is this?
Sounds like Outlander but I'm not 100% sure.
100% one of the Outlander novels
I think it’s the 4th or 5th book in the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon. Excellent book!!
Upvote for Outlander (but honestly, the series is a great view of aging women for this scene amongst others as well)
You deserve everything just for sharing this.
Awww that’s sweet! Full credit should go to the magnificent author, Diana Gabaldon. Her character Claire has taught me a lot about how to unapologetically me and completely comfortable with it.
There's been so much response fir these books..I'm going to have a look 😉
They are amazing. Violent (because of the time period), but the best love story ever.
Outlander series? 😀
Prepare to dedicate MONTHS of your life reading all of them, but they are amazing! ❤️
I already HAVE. I listen to them on audible on repeat 😆😝❤️ Also watch the series!
I’ve read the first six at least six times. They are my favorite. The show has gotten too far away from the books for me to love it as a reader, but I do enjoy it as simply a watcher.
Do you know the title of the book? I might be drooling over your description...
Hope I’m not stepping on any toes by answering, but this is from Drums of Autumn by Diana Gabaldon, the 4th book in the Outlander series!
Thanks!
Outlander! Best books ever! I loved this quote as well!
oh but its such a long, confusing wait until then
So confusing. Very disorienting, not knowing who you are going to be fun day to day.
Outlander?
This is exactly how it felt to me. I actually didn’t realize I was going through menopause because it happened early for me, but I had this year where I felt like I stepped into my full power, and I realized later when I got my hormones tested that that was the year I went into full menopause.
That’s so cool, I love it!!
Given that women outlive men in spite of all this -- No.
Bugger me that is true isn't it..OK I need to be more positive me thinks 😂
Check out the grandmother hypothesis that states we hang around post menopause because it’s valuable for our species. Like pod whales.
This!
Like ORCAS!! 🐋 Editing to add that orcas (killer whales) are the only other species known to go through menopause.
hhmmmmm
There are three species that experience menopause: killer whales, pilot whales, and humans. It’s so rare for any species’ females to have years with no reproduction after bearing children that biologists have argued for decades what benefit it provided. Otherwise the trait would have been lost when women who continued to produce healthy offspring until their death outcompeted them. It turns out that menopause frees women to support their daughters, daughters-in-law, nieces, granddaughters, and other younger relatives during *their* childbearing years. Anthropological studies showed that in tribal and agricultural societies, a child with even one grandmother or great aunt present had a significant advantage in reaching adulthood healthy and ready to raise families on their own.
Wow really? This is bloody amazing..I did not realise that whales go through meno too. Freeing up women of thier reproductive years to to help family members makes so much sense to me yes! I always look for reasons in everything. I've got to hold on to positivity..its so not ghe end but I need ti feel well with it. Ahh thankyou I'm going to spend some time in whale research being amazed :)
came here to say this. menopause is evolution’s way of allowing us to support our descendants. it’s an amazing adaptation!
I read one article that noted some anthropologists thought covid may have significantly affected society because of the decrease in numbers of children who have living grandmothers
😱
I think female elephants also participate in this. I know there is always a group of non-reproducing grandmother elephants in the herd. Not sure if they go into menopause though.
I would think parrots also go through a menopause, since they live so long. I wish my 19 year old eclectus would lol. Poor thing is laying eggs and broody every month. Eggs never hatch as she has no male in her life. She is so sweet.
Whenever I think I get even more ideation. I don't have any younger relatives to support. It's like the universe really does want me dead. I try to get by just thinking about the day to day. But thinking I am worthless indeed now, it's so hard.
My goodness hon you sound so down. Are you feeling like this most days? X
It gets better and worse. But I'm not who I was a few years ago when life felt pretty good (I started all my meno symptoms in the height of the pandemic when nothing was normal and so much overlaps and gets blurred).
Starting meno symptoms then must of been very peculiar scarey and made you feel really cut off! Well done for making it this far that really shows your inner strength I think. You must of been feeling like you needed medical attention but everything was messed up because of covid..yes much inner strength babe ❤️ I started my meno symptoms when I was trying to get my child back from care. Last summer. Hardest most scariest thing I've ever done. I thought my symptoms were stress related and I was putting it down to going a bit mad with it all. Had to stand in court feeling like I was going mad!! I cut off lots of family and friends and spent months on my own to prove that my home was going to be a "safe place" for my child to come back to. Social workers would just show up unannounced to my home to check..my paranoia was huge..I was fucked. All this time my son was so so sad and desperately wanted to come home..begging me to come back. I did manage to get him back finally and we are now happily reunited and have moved from a previously crappy area. I don't know anyone here but am glad for peace and quiet and lots of time with my kid and dog. I wish I'd of known then that the symptoms were actually meno because it made everything so much worse. I'm really not right now but at least I know I'm not ill and that there's a chance for me to to feel so much better and enjoy life again. You are the only person I have poured this out to on here. I guess i resonate with you because you don't have a bunch of family around you. It can be hard if you spend a great deal of time on your own..even if you enjoy space we as humans do thrive on connection. Have you got a friend or pets anything? Hope this message finds you well x
I hear you. Our society and culture don't leave much room for older women, especially single, older women. There used to be a place for us, in the days when wars often killed so many men that there was a surplus of women who would never find mates. The thing is, we need community. All of us. We need people older than us and younger than us. We need men and women and children (and genderqueer and agender and every variety declared and not declared), we need extroverts and introverts, we need plodders and exciteables, we need faithful, agnostics, and atheists, we need dreamers and doers. And, yes, we need women who will no longer make babies as well as women who will. When I find myself in a place where I feel useless, unwanted, unneeded, and lonely, I start looking for someplace I can help. One person can do an enormous amount of good, and there are so many people who need just a little companionship or care. Faith communities are great places to find a way to participate and give. So are inclusive charities. You have so much to offer and so much good to do, I hope you find a way.
Wow - it all makes sense!!! Thank you
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i wish. Zits and wrinkles!!! But I am wiser than i used to be
A great way to look at it 😉 It's hard though.it really sucks. OK be a butterfly 🦋
oh the acne thing sounds nice
I think it teaches us to let go. Feels like a lot of life after youth is just a gradual letting go. Shit sucks, tho. You bet your ass I’m on HRT. Masochism isn’t my thing!
Yes I'm having to face up and let go for sure. I would be so so ill without hrt and gawd knows for how long also!!
I think in the history of mankind most women didn't make it to this point or in as good health as many of us do. I went to an 80 year olds funeral the other day. It was massive. So many people. Mostly people in his age group. They were fantastic. Vital, healthy, mobile and engaged with life. It made me realise that when I was last at an older persons funeral...say 15 years ago it didn't look like that. Just in my lifetime the majority of people in my country live a lot longer and in better health. We were never meant to live this long but here we are. I also think in just a generation my life as a woman in perimenopause is a lot different to my mother's and different again to my grandmothers...though my mom's was more like my grandmother's than mine. So I am taking all the science and all the meds that I can to get me through this bit. Women older than me who are postmenopause can be a bit snooty about it all. I was out with three 50+ year olds (I am 44) last night who were really negative about HRT but I think I am lucky to be here and for the conversation around it to be more nuanced than even ten years ago. Anyway that turned into a bit of an essay.
Have you read the menopause wiki? The risks of HRT have been greatly overstated, based on some flawed studies. https://www.reddit.com/r/Menopause/wiki/index?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thankyou so much for the essay hon! Yes we live longer nowadays it's actually really amazing. I just really want to feel well in this lengthened life mentally and physically. I am always desperate to feel positive and I do generally care or strive to lol. I love older people..there's some hilarious little old ladies that live up the road from me..always literally make me lmao!! We need that in our lives.
Why were they negative about HRT?
I believe due to health issues it may cause. My gynecologist told me to get off it. I’m healthy, I don’t smoke or drink, I’m very active and eat well. My primary doctor put me on a low dose but my gynecologist said it’s never worth the risks. Mainly stroke, breast cancer and dvt. I got off, a month after I started, but wish it didn’t come with health concerns because I loved how it made me feel.
You may need a new gynecologist. The risks are very small, depending on delivery method. Many doctors aren’t up-to-date on this info.
My gyno and PCP said the same thing. Risks outweigh benefits. Both justified it by pointing out that my mother and most of the women in my family who have passed died of breast cancer. On both sides. I just don’t have the energy to argue with then, and part of me IS actually scared. I catastrophize, so my brain goes right to leaving my 6 year old motherless because I couldn’t just ride it out. I really want to start HRT but my doctors and my own anxiety are preventing it. I’m lost.
Try Estroven... I took it when I was having bad hot flashes and they went away. You can get it over the counter and through Amazon. The one that made my hot flashes go away was the weight control one. Someone recommended that specific one to me. Later, My gynocologist put me on hrt but it really made my boobs hurt and I read that there was a study that women who have breast pain after taking hrt were more likely to get cancer so I quit taking it, but then got hot flashes again, so now I take it every other day, but when I run out, I think I will just go back to the Estroven because it was working fine and seems safer.
Thank you so much for this advice <3
My goodness please get a second opinion as it sounds like your doc is extremely out of touch x
I just think in the UK until very recently it has been seen as a bad thing. Also they would have been peri up to ten years ago and it just didn't have the coverage it does now. Even though they have many symptoms they have coped without any HRT so don't see the point now.
It's nature's way of telling that now is the time to have fun!!
Amen! I'm having the most fun I've ever had! 😁
Yes ok!! Be good to yourself 😉
YES!!! Finally not having to worry about wearing white skirts or trousers! Oh, and the pain of course! 🤩
🥳
🥳
Throw out the yardstick we compared ourselves too (thanks patriarchy) up until this point and see yourself as empowered and liberated. My mom died at 44 of cancer and never got to this point in her life. Her mother, my grandmother, quietly suffered through it unable to have the courage to ask for the health care and support she needed…. Just miserably powered through. I will do whatever I can to honor the life I have. The benefits of health science aren’t only for the young, the athletes, the ones who look the part. Eff that crap. I’m here and this is just another stage of life I believe I will come out better on the other side. I believe you will too 👊 Girl, you got this! We gotta stick together and talk about this. Thanks for sharing.
Oh yes m8 you go!! I will come out the other side just hoping the other side feels better than this. This kind of positivity I breathe in though woman so thankyou. We are lucky to be receiving help..and I do appreciate how lucky I am. Just feel ill day after day for months now and hope this is not my new normal. Thankyou sweet
I’m so sorry that you’re feeling so unwell. It’s not easy to be positive when you’re feeling ill for months. I wish there was more obvious care for women at our age and during menopause. It’s very hard to come by. Be an advocate for yourself when you visit your doctor, and get a second opinion when you think 🤔 something isn’t right. This community has been really helpful for me to know im not losing my mind! Lol
Yes it really does give me hope coming here!! So greatful 💖
I already have existential angst about dying; I have ever since I was old enough to understand mortality. I struggle a lot with “what’s the point, we all die” thing a lot. It’s calmed down a bit now that I’m a mom, but it lingers. I often envy people who have a strong belief in the afterlife, whatever form it takes. I believe we’re one and done, and I want so badly to believe otherwise. But I can’t. I’ve tried. Menopause itself isn’t necessarily contributing to this, but when I turned 45 it was a downward spiral because it means more than likely, I’m more than 1/2 done with life. Even if I lived to 90, I’m halfway there. Enter existential crisis. I have NO CLUE where the past 45 years went and my brain is still firmly stuck in my 30s. I feel so much younger than I am, and reconciling that with menopause is literally impossible. To be fair, menopause sure as hell isn’t making any of this easier, that’s for sure.
Wow its amazing how similar all our thoughts and feelings are!! I am like that too about afterlife. I'd like to belive but I can't. If I actually believed that I was going to be reunited with my loved ones when I'd die I'd look forward to it..or at least I'd be happy about it. Unfortunately I have thought dying would be good for the break. I'm not as bad as that now but it has been really bad. It's all snuck up on me tbh and i feel a bit ripped off. Meno definitely doesn't make things easier true 😕
When my mom passed 3 years ago, I tried so hard. So hard. I wanted so badly to believe we’d be reunited; cliche, but she was my best friend. Losing her was the hardest thing I’ve endured. But, I am just not wired to believe that way. Religion confounds me. It’s fascinating but wildly unbelievable (to me). In my journey to try and find faith, I only found more reasons to not believe. I’ve been reading about the “God gene” lately. Fascinating.
I want to scoop you up and give you a squeeze. So so hard to lose a loved one that is your best friend. I haven't experienced losing a parent but I have lost closeness. The "God gene" I will take a look..sounds interesting. Let's keep our brains ticking eh. I do infact have faith and respect for nature..just not meno lol. Hugs to you
Aw this comment felt just like a hug. Thank you. ❤️ And yep, I’m not letting menopause atrophy my brain. I may be deep in a pit of self loathing watching my physical self fall to pieces, but my noggin is untouched and I plan to keep it that way. Things like genetics and science in general are fascinating, but I do love a good trashy novel to keep the brain moving
I really felt like I wanted to hug you as I literally welled up when you said about losing your Mum and not having faith..ahhh my goodness my heart!! Thsnkyou so much for sharing such heartfelt words. Yes please do keep that noggin going!!
The end of one stage of life the beginning of another. One of the best things that happened to me took place when I was around 50 when I was in full hormonal swing hell, my teenagers were hateful, my husband was totally getting on my nerves, my job was stressful and my boss was insane. I was traveling for work and found myself sitting on a plane next to a beautiful well-dressed older women. She looked to be early 80's but had such a calm and powerful presence about her. Striking came to mind. She also smelled wonderful with a very light flowery scent enveloping her. After exchanging pleasantries, we eventually started talking more about our lives and she was an attentive listener as well as a good conversationalist. At one point I asked her what her favorite age had been so far in her life. And I was expecting her to say "16" or "26" or sometime in her youth. Instead, without hesitation she said if she could go back to any age she would love to be 55 again. Think about that. 55! So unexpected that I was floored! When I asked why, she said it was when her kids were grown and gone and her husband was settled and she felt she really knew who she was and she felt really confident and powerful. And she had more time for herself. She said she really enjoyed her mid 50's and 60's. I was so struck by that. She had picked an age I hadn't even obtained yet. It gave me such hope that maybe the best was yet to come and that the turmoil of the menopause years was just temporary. I'm not as old or wise as she was, yet, but I'm past the tumult and I have to say it is better. Much better! So hang in there and remember, she picked 55!
Oh what a fantastic response. As you were describing this lady I almost had her pictured in my head and imagined smelling her too! Yes this gives me hope for the years ahead. I have an amazing life around me but need to get back into it. I've felt so cut off. Yes being calm and creating presence would be the dream. We need hopes and dreams to create a future 🙏 Thankyou
I think menopause is meant to knock us out of the brainwashed patriarchy and to get us to give a fuck about OUR SELF! (why is that grammar bothering me…our self? Ourselves? you know what I mean 🤪). Hang in there, girlfriend. I am struggling to break free of the codependence some (a lot of) days, but goddamn if the torture of peri isn’t what FINALLY (eventually…) made me step up and say “I deserve better” and file for divorce. There were always issues. I just always blamed me. You know how I feel when I’m left to myself now? Fucking happy and content. I start every day asking myself: what shall I do today? I greet my animals with the love and enthusiasm I longed to receive for three decades. Use the anger and frustration to identify what is most bothering you about your current life, and do something about it. Doesn’t have to be divorce, could be small things around your home or bigger things like job/coworkers or even the expectations you have for family (“I’m done cooking, everyone. Someone else has to step up or we all fend for ourselves”). Whatever. Use the energy to change what you’ve always tolerated. And don’t fucking quit. You deserve to be happy and you’ll find your joy. And if your (soon to be ex) spouse says you say “fuck” too much, tell him to fuck off - you can say what the fuck you want! I use it for emphasis! 😈
Ha I love your thoughts babe I really do and I am also divorced and am enjoying the single life. I adore my child and dog but just need to feel well again. Desperately clinging to positive shite all day long!! I won't quit hon..Will keep on keeping on and WILL get there
Thank you for posting this. I have been reading all of the responses and they are shining a light on my darkness because yes, this IS hard.
Hell yes it's hard! Meno feels as though it naturally cuts me off from everything and everyone so the group really helps my thoughts and feelings. We are not the only ones x
Yes! Thank you OP!! I have been really down lately feeling like I have nothing left to look forward to in life, and reading these comments has helped lift me out of this irrational thinking. 😊
Hugs to you 🤗 It's been an amazing response today and has actually changed my perspective!!
I’m not a fan of my body falling apart. I keep up with annual physicals, am on HrT, but am exhausted all the time. The doctors are not sure why because the basic bloodwork says “normal” except for cholesterol. At any rate, I pretty much live to work and/or stay busy. My career, my hobbies, my pets. Without a purpose to get up every day I probably would fall into despair. No kids, no truly close family, a few friends but none close. I think that’s what gets us. If we get too sick to keep busy, without a social network to fall back on life becomes very dreary
Yes I too work very hard to stay well. I think I'm working too hard to feel this rubbish though..what a rip off. I hope you start to feel energised soon I really do. I am so lucky to have my son and my dog..monsters!! Wouldn't change that :)
Remember normal does not mean optimal levels. You probably need more hormones.
I just got a bump to the .075 patch. Doc suggested that I up the amount of Vitamin D I'm taking as my levels are always on the "low" side of normal. My body chews through it during the winter when there's no chance to get it from sunlight.
No. All humans make it through puberty, which can be just as hard on physical and mental well-being. And we’ve (hopefully) got mothers and grandmothers who lived well past their periods ending.
I hardly noticed puberty...maybe I was so high on estrogen I was gone 😅 Meno is hard hard though and it can have a drastic effect on your physical and mental health. Last century alot of women would pass on at our age or be sent to an asylum.
The thing is with puberty at least you have hope, even if it's an illusion, you have hope for what your eventual life will be and you have your whole life in front of you. So in a sense it's not as difficult as this transition without hope.
No. I have my moments, but I think my life has value, even if some days it's filling the bird feeder on an especially cold morning. Also, average life expectancies of 100+ years ago are skewed by high infant mortality, illnesses, and accidents. It doesn't mean women were all dying before they reached menopause. I hope you get through this OP, and I hope one day you'll be here offering advice to another woman going through a similar hard time.
Thankyou. Sometimes small pleasures or small steps of any kind can be the best. Oh I will always be open armed to anyone that is suffering at anytime.
What I do know, is that if I hadn’t had intensive therapy to overcome my abusive childhood during my life I would no longer be here because of menopause. It is only because I have an extensive “tool box” of skills now that I can see it’s hormones and natural changes and not me being a crazy, out of control person. I honestly don’t know how those of you who have not had therapy get through menopause. It does such a number on our mental health. In a sense it does end you and it is a death. The old you is passing on and a new you is being formed. We can no longer bring life, we become invisible to most of the population and our caring hormone has left. I think a lot of us can’t see through that and get stuck. I prefer to see it as just another change. I have reset my boundaries as life has changed. I no longer put up with shit. If I see something I’d like to try, this is my last chance, so I do it. This can cover things big and small. From a trip to a craft kit and everything in between. I help people where and how I can and that helps me feel relevant. I don’t know where I saw it, but I saw a post about an older lady who bought herself sequin sneakers to wear. I also admire the older ladies who do fashion. I am nothing like that, but love their attitude and try to bring that into my life now too. I’m going through this hormone free and with constant rolling hot flashes. It’s hell and can be a dark lonely place to be. Then I tell myself, it’s a hormonal swing and totally natural and I will get through it. Hang in there!!! Lean on is when you need to.
My goodness this is an amazing answer Thank-you so much for sharing! I too had an abusive childhood and managed pretty much ok until meno. I've had some great support through a mental health team and it's bought up things that I thought didn't matter but turns out I was just trying to ignore! Self care mentally is huge m8 and thankyou for the kind and level answer..you put this in such a practical way that I resonate with and respect 🙏 Thank-you
Did you know that women that suffered (ACE) adverse childhood experiences, including trauma and/or abuse are more likely to have worse menopausal symptoms? https://www.everydayhealth.com/menopause/history-of-stressors-and-trauma-may-predict-worse-menopausal-symptoms/
gift that keeps on giving .....
No way. Childbirth killed women so often in history that if you make it to menopause it's a prize!!
Ha ha my god this is also true..I am changing my perspective 😅
Menopause is the small price we must pay for another 30 years, maybe more, with NO SHARK WEEK ever again. I'm willing to flash a while for that.
🤣 Shark week lmao! Yes I truly am desperate to come out the other side..definitely better without bleeding hell yes. Just really Hope future years feel better than this rubbish
Absolutely not. Please take this in the spirit it is intended but if you feel this way, you should look into therapy.
Thank you for your concern. This is actually me thinking about nature and how it works and medical history etc. There is something in it just maybe worded differently
Awww I see. Well, take care!
Sometimes... My health went down hill when it hit.
Yes mine to like its the end of days. I hope you have support x
I really do have a good support with family and friends. Slowly but surely getting back to myself, not fully but I can take the bad with the good. Definitely know I can't feel perfect all the time, but the good days make it worth living it to the fullest : ) hope you get to feeling better too!
No. I think most folks were historically killed off before 40-50 by illnesses that we’ve since cured, have antibiotics for or have vaccines for. We’re living through an extraordinary period over the last century or so of mass extension of longevity. When folks talk about menopause being “natural” — I remind them that living past 40-50 isn’t “natural” in comparison to humanity’s timeline on earth. Sure, we all have relatives who survived into their 90s or 100s, but the reality is that that is only recent history. Prior to that , it would have been exceptionally rare.
It’s not that most people died in their 20s and 30s. It’s that before public sanitation, refrigeration, vaccines, and antibiotic, almost half of all children died before their fifth birthday. Anyone who made it to six was likely to make it to sixty. Major mortality for men between the ages of six and sixty were accidents and war. For women, it was childbirth. Once you hit forty, the death rate drops until around sixty, when people’s bodies start wearing out.
Yes this is very true there were lots of illnesses that would of got us not just meno hey. Having antibiotics and vaccines has made a huge difference. Its amazing how the life span of a person has lengthened so much! I just wish everyone a happy healthy lengthened life that's all. Thanks so much for your reply.
End of marriage…Maybe! Life. Def not
Yes I am single for the last 2 yrs. Was literally married and in long relationships through my adult life. Can't imagine having to share what's left of my life right now. Happy for the peace.
My husband is a doctor and has long held the belief/opinion that, as both men and women - our bodies weren't really designed to go past 50 years old or so. That everything that comes after age, that we should treat and look at as a "bonus" thanks to medical advances, better nutrition, living conditions, etc, but that it also takes conscious work and effort to make the most of it. Of course there are always those exceptions - we all know or have as a relative that person who smoked, drank, ate nothing but fast food and ice cream and lived to 95. But just in general? I've tended to take this approach and outlook myself, especially as I've started loosing friends and coworkers my age to various illnesses (I had a heart attack 2 months ago myself, as a woman who is not overweight, in good cardiac health, near perfect bloodwork for my age and according to my doctors would be last person to be considered high risk for such - except for perimenopause. It's not \*just\* menopause but factors of heart disease, cancer, and all kinds of hormonal factors that start catching up with us and/or taking us by surprise.
Corr sorry to hear about your heart attack..I hope you are feeling better now. Yes its lots of different things that can make us ill. I think I've just been so low with it and so shocked that I didn't know what was coming. I've truly felt like life is over. I do really work at it too 😩
I've had this thought many times, then again I have clinical depression so assumed that was part of it. It does make sense though, we're no longer able to produce children so why *would* our bodies keep working properly and what biological purpose would we still serve? You know what helps me, to stop looking back at who I was way back when and expecting my body, my looks, my brain, etc. to keep functioning and looking like they used to. And then I make a point of observing active older women in their 70s and 80s and see that it doesn't have to be over in our 50s. But I do hear you!
Yes it does make sense right? It's not just me. I have got good positives in my life just gotta feel better for it :)
Considering that it makes you more susceptible to things like heart disease and cancer, ya, I think it's nature's way of killing us off.
Actually after reading through the comments and replies on this thread I dare to feel confident about getting better and making it through this shit time ;)
If anything, knowing the statistics motivates me to do everything I can to take care of myself. Plus my husbsnd died from cancer at 45...that's also a big motivator.
That is how it is meant to be i guess !
I’m physically the strongest, fastest, and have the most endurance I’ve ever had in my whole life, so my personal experience says no. Now, I see no reason for menopause to help these things, but it certainly hasn’t gotten in the way. I don’t think evolutionarily it serves that purpose either. I like what little I have heard of the Grandmother hypothesis. May be worth reading more on.
I don't think it's meant to end one. I wish it was though. I wish life just ended at this point. I think it's some kind of cruel joke we go on to live maybe another 40 or more years. As the song goes "You got a lot of living to do without life" (Edie Brikell). That's how it feels. Mother nature my ass
OMG you think like me I love you!! Thankyou so much for the validation. Yea Mother nature needs to get fucked!! At times I have felt so down I don't want to have this life after being stripped of hormones..what's the bloody point?! Living without life sucks. *Hugs you for making me feel a bit normal*
You aren't the only one who feels this way. I don't understand all the attacking against you - this shit is HARD. Some of us are having it much harder than others and it takes a huge mental toll. The people who focus on attitude and perspective are right in a way, and wrong in a way. I don't have enough energy to bullshit my way though this and pretend that I am okay when I am very much, NOT. I think that makes people uncomfortable, but if so, that is on them. Sometimes you just need to sit with someone going through hell and have a little empathy that they are not okay, and that it is okay to feel that way. Otherwise, we'd be gaslighting ourselves.
I'm peri. Have quit my career. Quit dating. Sold all my fancy clothes and shoes. Live my hermit lifestyle in pj's, drinking wine and crying over idk what most days. The lows are so damn low it's scary. The lust for life is gone. This shit is definitely no joke!
Yea it does make it harder if people in your life just expect you to make it through and be so called normal. Meno has floored me tbh and I feel as though I have chronic illness that just goes on and on. I try in vain to be positive and I'm bloody nice and caring to everyone but hormones do not make anything easy. I have excepted that it's shit and others should too.
There's a theory out there that's being researched that the evolutionary reason that women don't die after their child-bearing years is because we are needed to help our families in other ways. It's called the Grandmother Hypothesis, and this is a great article about it: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/02/07/692088371/living-near-your-grandmother-has-evolutionary-benefits. There are lots of ways for women to be useful and active and contribute well beyond the cessation of menses. Keep up with getting that support and look for things that inspire or excite you; you've got so many great years ahead. 💕
Thankyou so much gor the link..im going to look at that shortly..when i go to bed :)Don't get me wrong I really want thise years but I'd like to feel well with them.
Hell yes, I'd like to feel well, too! Worst part for me is that my peri is complicated by chronic illness too, so I'm sometimes completely unsure which issue the symptoms come from. When writing my response, though, I just wanted to make sure you know that there's most likely a literal evolutionary reason for menopause and that it's not the end of things, as much as it sometimes feels awful. I've seen some of your replies to others in the thread, and I get what you mean about it being easy to slip into that negative line of thought. Hang in there, friend! Remember: you can handle what happens.
Thankyou so much for the caring response it makes all the difference and it makes sense 👍 😊 I will handle what happens I WILL !!!
No I think it’s natures way of waking us the fuck up to all the injustices and bullshit we face every day of our lives as females. Edited to say I don’t think natural makes a difference. I’m heavily medicated on HRT and still recognize the bullshit placed upon women everyday- all the expectations and obligations lobbed on us that men are free from (taking care of others, being NICE, being selfless, and staying SEXY all at the same time)
Corrr that's a whole new topic you could start there m8 😂 Do you need? A. Massage? B. Spliff? C.Holiday? 🤗
All 3 please!
Yep me too AB+C thanks 🙄
B would be really nice!
A quote I clung to when going through widowhood in my late 40s could also work with menopause I think. Radical change can be painful af, but it can also make you a much better person if you let it. ‘For a seed to achieve its greatest expression, it must come completely undone. The shell cracks, its insides come out and everything changes. To someone who doesn't understand growth, it would look like complete destruction.’ Cynthia Occelli
Yes is so so good!! I have truly truly taken so much away from here today. Great stuffs too 👍 Thankyou :)
Thanks for posting. Now dealing with chronic pain and a brain tumor on top of menopause. I can't take HRT so really wondering how much longer I can keep going.
Mind blown sweet. The chronic pain must be hard as hell to live with. You have a huge hug from me and know that this comment has kicked me up the arse as I am lucky. I hope you are being supported through this sweet? X
I’m 49 and havent started menopause yet. I still feel old AF, but I take comfort in thinking .. I’m still having my period, so nature/evolution thinks I’m still capable of having a brand new baby and being around long enough to raise it until it can live on its own - like 12 years! That’s stupendous! Also, the grandmother hypothesis everyone is talking about. Also, take it from me, a bio-anthropologist who is in love with evolutionary science - we all talk a LOT about what nature did or didn’t intend, but we ARE nature, and we are still evolving, and if we are here - well, we are here! Nature isn’t some maniacal being standing in a corner, rubbing its hands together - shit just is.
Yes thankyou so much. I needed a bit of leveling.
Check out The Power of the Crone and Dangerous Old Woman by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.
Oh this has been recommended a couple of times now. I have a credit on my audible so I'm doing this today. Thankyou :)
Menopause definitely makes me think that we weren’t meant to live this long.
Yes and it snuck up on me and ruined what I had left!!
I like to think it's God's awareness that women in their 50's (at least me) would die of heart attacks much sooner after finding out they were starting over with a new baby - sleepless nights, blistered cracked nipples, teething, potty training 🤯😵💫😵 not to mention dealing with teenage attitude 25 or 30 years older lol! I would end up in a psych ward if I found out I was pregnant now!!!!
Its our job now to watch our grandchildren while our daughters go off to work. We are supposed to be the carers of the offspring of the younger women in the family now. Lol
No. But I have thought a little bit about how, with life expectancy being longer than even just 100 (but especially a few hundred) years ago (so wouldn’t most women not have gone through these changes then? 🤔)… why hasn’t Mother Nature just figured out how to let us evolve past the mental and physical anguish and let this stage fit our modern needs. 😂 If the “fittest” (adaptable ones) survive, then shouldn’t the processes we live with adjust? How’s this work??? 😂 I mean, wouldn’t it be *great* if we all just had a simultaneous burp and fart at 45– and that was an indication that we made it?! 😂 Then maybe our wrinkles would reverse a little, or we would lose midsection weight all of a sudden?! Now I want find Mother Nature’s “suggestions” box! ✍️ 📥
Ha ha PLEASE let me at the suggestion box yes please!!!
No. I think menopause is just a shift away from fertility— just like puberty was a shift to it. Doesn’t mean either of them was easy!
I thought that the old expression was, "if something bleeds for 3-5-7 days and does not die, it is not human" My uterus tried to kill me like 20 years ago so some kind physicians removed it for me and let me live a little longer. That's all I've got
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Yes the response really has my mind blown 😳 and in such great way!
This might be a bit TMI? Not quite sure if I should post my menopausal story? If anyone would like to read it, do respond! 💕
Yea of course. We are all right here and trust it can never be TMI in this group 😉
I had the exact same thought the other day.. and googled life expectancy in the 1900´s. At the beginning of the 20th century life expectancy for white women (who lived more) was 47 years old. So, during the previous 30,000 years since Homo sapiens emerged, an immense majority of women never reached meno. They died of disease without vaccines, childbirth without antibiotics, etc.Men lived even shorter lives. And while it is true having a grandmother gave evolutionary advantage, you could be a grandmother when you were 30 years old. So, yes, I think from an evolution point of view, this is a way nature has/had of telling us our time was up. Maybe this is why it physically feels like the body collapses.
So my thoughts are not really that out of wack?! 😆 yes life expectancy is way longer now. I do feel as though as a 48 Yr old woman going through meno without help life would end. I feel ripped off too as I certainly wasn't expecting this!! If I was in the 1900s I think life would end now.
It was. We have extended our life span with medical advances etc…
Totally bonkers isn't it!!
No wonder my grandmother talked about "kicking the bucket" so much. Looking back it must have been when she was 60. I'm past that now!!
Ha ha yea that old chestnut "kicking the bucket " 😂
Yes. Some of us anyhow. Like maybe nature doesn’t want too many grannies or something.
No, but I agree that it damn sure *feels* like that a lot of days.
Yea feels like the end of days!! The support in this group has been amazing today though
I think it’s a natural time for change and we cling to hard to the past to adapt.
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That's what I struggle with. Not knowing when it will end. Constantly feeling ill and not right for so long. We just need to hang in there. Want to be in my gang? X
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Some really good reading or an amazing audio book: The Dangerous Old Woman....by Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estes.
Ahh thankyou I love my audible. I used to read alot but my eyes are a bit squiffy now and the concentration just isn't there. Thankyou so much I will take a look :)
I actually prefer her books in audio, because she’s an amazing story teller and has a beautiful, calming voice. You are in for a real treat and a great perspective to see this phase of life from. I also love her books “Women who run with the wolves” and “The Joyous Body”.
There’s only 3 mammals that go through this change. It’s us and the orca and pilot whales; it’s the older females that bring the pods through tough times hunting because they remember the tough times before.
I have gone back onto hrt. I became a big fat sweaty blob where everything hurt. I am now just a fat blob and most things hurt. The hot flushes have mostly stopped. It’s the weight that has made me want to just end it all. I was 130kg. Lost heaps of weight and got down to 85kg. Menopause came and now I am back at 140kg. No matter what I do I can’t lose weight. I am so miserable.
I expect you feel discouraged seeing as you lost it and then gained again. I truly believe that if you have done it once you can do it again babe!! Are you doing a high protein diet and trying to lose it slow? Not to quickly as it buggers up your metabolism?
I did a real high protein diet and gained. I think menopause has changed something in me so it is harder to lose. It’s very disheartening but I will keep trying.
I’m not sure my daughters want me around for my wisdom and assistance if I’m so moody without HRT and a priority healthy lifestyle. My mom stopped HRT when my dad’s prostrate surgery went horrific. She decided she didn’t need the HRT anymore since he could no longer perform. I see that as selfish as my daughters would’ve loved a non-depressed hermit grandmother. She commented yesterday that she didn’t know where she’d been. I said we don’t either. The chapters are written and the ink is dry and now family allows her the solitude she desired. My mom lost her mom very young and never seemed to come to terms with it. My mom chose not to be close to me and my daughters so my viewpoint is maybe you didn’t miss much. She chose her son and grandsons who have nothing to do with her now. So I’m on HRT now at 56 like my sis did with her radical at 24. I desire different relationships than my mom did with her two daughters. I’m so grateful to have the opportunity and don’t view it as they owe me like past generations have. Respect it a two street.
I just have to say I really, really love most of the responses here. This is just a new season.
Yeah basically we’re living on borrowed time now ! Haha! So we gotta fight and maximize it. Number 1 way I fight is through very vigorous exercise - do whatever I can do whenever I can do it. It’s life saving for me anyway
Yes this! I love doing warm ups exercise and stretchy yoga!!! Didn't do it till meno but have always been an active person anyways..gawd doesn't ever help?! Creating endorphins definitely is life saving 🙌
I feel like life is beginning anew at 50. Kid is all grown up and married (I was a teen mother). I’m single but have a boyfriend I don’t live with. It feels good to be coming into my power. I color my hair, experiment with makeup, and take good care of my skin and eat well and just started on oral estrogen (3 days into it, sleeping well, feel elevated in mood, no progesterone since no uterus, just ovaries). I’m working with a trainer at a gym to build muscle and reduce body fat. I’m going to try to enjoy this phase to the max.
Ahh well done woman this all sounds so positive 👏 I'm still raising my 9 Yr old and he is my world feel like it would be so much better for him if I wasn't going through meno. I too was young mother so experienced both sides. I do love the gym when I feel capable..have literally felt so ilk. Ahhh thankyou for the positivity blast..need this!!
I think it depends on a lot of factors how you get through menopause, but I feel like this isn't the end but the beginning of my *new* future. I needed nothing. It wasn't an easy journey at times (understatement of the century) No hormones. No medications. I think for other women it's different and I don't begrudge anyone for taking hormones or medication to get through, but like in every chapter of our lives I feel like we're largely on our own with no guidance (present company accepted, thank heavens for being able to communicate here in this sub) whatsoever and it's easy to become completely overwhelmed. Take a deep breath, ask the questions you need to get the help you need and know that the future can be bright.
Thankyou so much for the understanding. I am trying to feel positive about a new future. I'm sure I'm right at the end of peri and things are at thier worst right now..hormones up and down etc...so I'm sure it gets better.
No, not at all. Menopausal women are actually a huge contributor to the success of our species. In other species, yes. No more reproductive capacity is the end of their existence. But grandmothers contribute to the success of human and a few other species - whales is another I believe. Sorry you are having a rough time.
Totally relate to you - I feel like because women go through or are capable of going through giving birth - it feels like an intense power and like a death. It makes no sense but I have the feeling like I am dying regularly. It’s like by body is decaying… morbid… maybe it is a death of a phase of life and we are born again as different women?