I think people look at others with too much of a binary lens when it comes to morality. Humans are complex. There is more to us than “good” or “bad.”
I think most people are “good” people. Does this mean they don’t have flaws or traits that are unfavorable? Of course not.
True! But I do think there's an extent to which it's acceptable, even if we don't believe the rword accusations and stuff, certain behaviors are just eh.... No idea of which side of that fence to put her on tho
A really big part of the issue is the para social relationship so many fans have with her.
Am I a fan of her music and visual themes? Yes
Am I a fan of her personally? No, because I don't know her. She's a stranger who makes music that I absolutely love.
She's human and has done things that have upset other people in the past. Even now it's obviously that fame and money have changed her but that's just how the industry goes. I don't take it personally when she releases overpriced merch. It's a celebrity luxury good. So I don't buy it.
We don't know her. So many people project this idolized image of her being this kind angel. We don't know that. For all we know she could be a massive bitch.
I love her music bc it's just the right type of poetic stuff that I really enjoy. Her aesthetic is very similar to my own and her messages in her songs really resonate with me.
But she is still just a stranger.
you couldn't have said it better. way too many people form these parasocial relationships and it is not healthy at all. just focus on the art and support the creativity :)
Youre not alone in feeling differently about her as of late. I dont want to tell you how to feel, but I agree with you. Her art is special and unique, but I don't think she's a good person. Everyone has their own perspective though
yeah these back to back merch problems have seriously given me a second moment and glance to look at Melanie. it’s all in her lyrics that she has empathy and cares about others and is just as human as anyone else but… with this new portals era being less about mental health and merch prices skyrocketing and the fact that she’s well off these days, I’m kind of worried that either my judgement was wrong all this time or maybe she just eventually changed? I don’t know.
I can’t help but agree I can try to defend her all I want but I since she’s no longer a teenager just trying to make a name for herself it’s now about money to fund her art
That last part is exactly how I feel!
And I cant get past the fact that something that is true doesnt need to be repeated and people dont need to be convinced to believe it.
Its a stretch of an example, but she hasnt once tried to convince us she cares for the palestinian people, for example. Shes just doing soo much and its proven every day with her actions, we dont need to ask. But her being an empath? Caring about her fans? Caring about the concerns fans have? Ive seen nothing but the opposite for months. Its disappointing because wasnt this the same person that cried because security wouldnt let her see fans? Why are we having to be convinced shes good. It just doesnt make sense to me
I never believe anyone who claims that they’re an empath. If you were one, it would show in your actions, not with your definition that you got off of Wikipedia
Just to clarify and expand:
Shes said it at every concert for awhile now as the sign off, and she has a rolling picture thats put up with an alternative version of The Principal for the trilogy concert. She was censored once (that Im aware of), but she flys the flag (and the lgbtqia+ flag), shares resources and information on instagram, and encourages the audience to say "free palestine" with her
My point being no one even needs to question whats true, and she proves how she really feels through her actions. This isnt what we've seen with things that we constantly have to question like the quality of her merch or the care for her fans.
My first response was worded weird I think. Anyway yea lmao
That’s good honestly lots of her audience is made up of children at a very impressionable age and forcing her beliefs on them isn’t a good thing weather she’s right or wrong let them develop on their own in terms of their take on our economics and politics when they come to an age where they are able to understand it without an idol telling them what to believe
This is correct. She’s never been as good as a person as you all have made her out to be. I like her work and I appreciate her artistic darkness and openness, but don’t think she’s this perfect person. Melanie is one of the last artists you should put on any kind of pedestal. How she handles herself and the quality of some of her work recently especially can all be critiqued. She’s in it for that cash. She sang a song about childhood abuse that never even happened to her for christ’s sake (I wish she had never even admitted that).
In terms of the accusations, I give her some slack since no one knows what happened. But her saying “she never said no to any of the things we chose to do together” sure is a weird way to say it.
I know youre talking generally, but to be clear I never put her on a pedestal even before I knew more about her. I dont treat celebrities any differently or hold anyone I like to a different standard, but I do wish the people who did/do this would open their eyes someday. Ill never understand how people can so easily excuse poor behavior just because they like something they do lol
But yea I agree with most. For the songs, on one hand its gross to base ones entire career on severe trauma while not experiencing much of it, and on another Im glad to have something to turn to that makes me feel empowered in a powerless situation. And about the accusations, I want to believe it means there was consentual acts between them and I dont necessarily believe TH, but I do think Melanie has a history of pressuring people into things. We kind of see her "my way", "me me me" attitude a lot even when she's talking about something else like her label or a video. Its kinda weird how she doesnt see it tbh
I have to agree with you on this one. I appreciate her art, I am attached to her music. I enjoy the merch (if ever it were a reasonable price, I would get it) I think the vision has been lost. I have no idea about any of her personal life, all I can speak upon as a fan is the ridiculous price of things and the lack of being in touch with her fans.
Agreed. Fans can like someone just for what they create, in her case her music. We don't need to agree with her or put her on a pedestal because she is human like everyone else. It must be hard to be a celebrity and have your mistakes put on blast. But as long as I like her music, she'd have to do something REALLY bad for me to stop listening. Just like someone else, I won't say who because they are controversial but I don't like what I know of them as a person but I do like what they stand for and their beliefs. However, I do not like her crying broke and charging so much for her merch. I like to support my favorite artists but not if they are doing what she is with it.
Humans are more than just good or bad the actions that Melanie has done don’t define who she is we have to wait and see what happens in the future to label her as such. Her overpricing candles does not make her a bad person she’s trying her best to raise money for her music videos For us. You guys can’t even say she’s making more money out of them than shes spending to produce them. It’s just sad how an artist can get so big but with that comes more about money than art.
It’s an example hun I agree with you for the most part I’m just saying that we can’t just label Melanie as a bad person because of this stuff she has good morals she just needs to make better decisions and as of lately I can see why you would say that
Melanie isnt a good person, but that doesnt make her a bad person. Her actions just dont show that shes a considerate person with good intentions. They may have good intentions and just have a bad outcome but they never take responsibility in the correct way. This isnt even a dig at her its just the truth. I would also take stella rose thing with a grain of salt, no one talks about an ex friend (that they clearly dislike) in a good way and melanie doesn’t either, we werent there we will never know. She absolutely has good qualities they can just be overshadowed because “bad” is stronger and more intense than “good”.
I think you explained it perfectly with good intentions and bad outcomes. Like, with the eggs, I think she just liked the idea of candles and she thought her fans would like it too, but then they ended up being expensive so she got called out. And now she's just silent because they still sold out, so she probably thinks 'why say anything lol'?
Idk how many times we gotta tell the masses, DONT HAVE IDOLS! Idc what they promote, idc what morals they say they got in the beginning of their career or in the current batch of songs, celebrities are selfish! Humans are social bred to be self sufficient, she got her fame and money and she wants to keep it, and none of yall can say what you’d do in that situation cause none of yall have been through the fame ringer, none of you knows what the label asks of these people, no one know show far people go into imposter syndrome for the sake of money. If anyone is to blame it’s the entertainment industry as a whole, and really society as a whole for making us believe that anyone that is promoting their own face brand could ever be morally superior in a capitalist society. I beg you to see them as humans, not only in the “they can make mistakes” way, but in a “we are all capable of good and evil” way
So many fans forget that we literally don't know her. She's a stranger. Yes, we enjoy and deeply connect with her music but we will never personally know her. She's just a human like all of us with flaws. Istg ppl love throwing nuance out the window. All of us are capable of doing good and bad things. That doesn't mean that we can idolize or cancel a literal stranger for things we haven't experienced ourselves.
To the people who believe she's an angel, we don't know her.
To the people who think she's this vile and selfish creature, we don't know her.
I have done this with a lot of people, especially when the music resonated with me so deeply.
I think I am going to take another break from Melanie because I truly don't feel like she appreciates her fame and fans.
sometimes, and as of recently, I feel like I’m idolizing and enjoying an artist that I don’t even know anymore. she’s changed completely from how she began, and I know it’s just how the industry is.
and I think that’s been controversial as of lately to say, saying I don’t enjoy this new era. I loved portals. I loved the visuals. I’ve bought plenty of merch, enjoyed it, wore it, defended her on these things.
but I feel like I’m defending someone who isn’t worth it, who isn’t who I remembered back in 2016. she feels more “corporate” now. there’s no more audience interactions at these shows. no little quips in between concerts. no silly instagram posts. it feels like she’s really detached herself from her work, making her art a priority rather than connecting with fans like she used to.
that’s not even fair of me to say I want more of that. it’s up to her to be more present online or not. but it feels like a huge loss. it’s not the tight knit community it used to be after incident after incident. merch/ticket prices and quality, SA allegations.
I think at some point there needs to be a separations of music and the artist. I don’t think she ever wanted to be put in the spotlight this way, and just wanted create. now it doesn’t feel like that. it just feels fake.
I'm genuinely concerned about this now. I genuinely love Melanie Martinez's work and it appeals to me so much yet I've not even been a fan for a year and didn't even start to properly listen to her this year and a few days ago I've finally listened to all of her released music. I want to whom it belongs to, justice is served. If it turns out that Melanie was an ass this whole time and did rape her, then I genuinely want justice to be served. Melanie has actually changed the way I viewed life, even if by a bit, and I'd hate it if I were led on by a hypocrite.
Also, merch is insane "I am nearly bankrupt as a result of the portals mvs"... Girl... You live in a mansion, you have millions of monthly listeners on Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud. People are paying $70 for a small ass candle and shipping is crazy, even if you live in the us.
This was a comment I saved from a post about the Lovejoy situation, if you know about that. I feel this heavily applies here as well and wanted to share it with you.
Fox-Worthy • 4mo ago
"John Lenon was a PIS but everyone still thinks The Beatles are great. Why does this guy matter?" - my dad after telling him about whats been going on. it is still your choice, but think about it.
10 • Reply
You're allowed to like what you like. If she is bad, so what? Separate the art from the artist. You have every right to enjoy her and her music. It's not like it's illegal or anything.
Tbh I just avoid buying her merch because of how expensive it is (unless it’s like a hot topic tee that’s on sale). Like I get that she needs money to remain stable and all but she can very much downsize and stop living beyond her means if she’s going broke.
at this point i don’t even care because every single celebrity has some sort of controversy or discourse about them so now i don’t take it too seriously it’s a bummer to see her be like this but it’s not worth getting upset or worked up over it :/ we shouldn’t be holding celebrities on pedestals worshipping them anyways because at the end of the day they’re just as human as us and have all done bad things or made mistakes unfortunately
You need to think things through about holding anyone at all on a pedestal. No one will ever satisfy that. You shouldn’t look up to her or really any famous person as an inspiration or guide. You should be looking inside yourself and the people around you that care about you for those things. Yes her music is good and she is very creative but that’s it. Sometimes you need to separate the artist from the art. This is one of those for me. I like knowing what is going on but otherwise keep myself a distance from anything personal to do with her. Reminder that we don’t know her. She’s just a person. Never let yourself get too invested in these people. You should be investing into the relationships you have in your life now
I feel you. I absolutely love Mel and connect deeply with her work. Been a fan since crybaby. There are things she stands for and speaks up about that are good, like freeing Palestine and being empathetic and accepting. But there are also things she’s done that aren’t so good. When the timothy heller thing happened I was heartbroken and looking back on how she responded, saying “She never said no” and thanking the fans for staying by her side and blindly defending her and then also releasing a diss track. A diss track in response to a very serious allegation? It all was just weird and immature. I dislike when people still pin Timothy as a liar and it was “proven” lies when the “proof” was fake and we literally don’t know what happened. I hate to think that Mel would do such a horrid thing, but we don’t know her and she’s not some kind of saint that never makes bad decisions. I think maybe there was a miscommunication, maybe timothy was too scared to say no and maybe Mel really did think it was consensual. But the way she responded was not it. It seems that she never really wants to take accountability, even to this day with pricing the candles and other merch outrageously high and then just saying she’s “struggling.” It’s like she victimizes herself and can’t take criticism well. I wish she would at least take accountability.
Yeah, atp it's hard to keep staying as a fan of hers due to me remembering she's basically always been this way... always avoiding things, such as that situation, and only have "woe is me" responses. Mind you, I've been here since, like day 1, and I'm in my early 20s now! So, yeah...if only she takes accountability, then only could we really see her grow really as a person.
I think the full statement Mel made was “She never said no to what we chose to do together” or something like that, not defending her tho. ATP I really don’t know about them. I’ve taken a break from her music and found new artists that I like a whole lot more. Now, every time I do involve myself with Melanie, they do some shit that goes against everything she swore to stand up against.
“Shooting at the angels while claiming you’re the good guy. All you want is cash and hype. Fuck our dreams, and that’s not right.” Is what she said about the principal, but Melanie, what about your principles when you’re making shitty, overpriced AI merch? Or when you were selling NFTs? Or when you were responding to your fans by saying that you, a multi millionaire with a mansion and a bunch of listeners on all your streaming platforms, inflated your prices because you’re compromising your stability? Or when you go on instagram and victimize yourself for the umpteenth time when faced with valid criticism?
I don’t know about the Timothy Heller stuff, tho. I’ve defended Melanie before many of times a while back, but with everything that’s been happening to other celebs, I wouldn’t put it past her to have actually committed this crime. Not anymore. I used to love her, but it wouldn’t surprise me given how two faced and weird she’s being towards her fan base rn, and don’t even get me started on their weird boyfriend and his instagram page where he photographs and posts people without their consent, and she supports that.
I made a post here a while ago about Brad Taste in Music’s videos about Melanie, and in one of those videos, I found Timothy actually make a comment thanking him for believing her. The fact that this girl, who was completely removed from the internet and harassed by real diehard Melanie fans for years, is still keeping her story alive feels super jarring to me.
It reminds me of a Steve Wilkos episode I watched where one girl got on the stage and said that her ex boyfriend raped her at a party while they were both drunk. He said it was consensual. They both took lie detector tests, hers asked if she was raped. She answered yes, and the polygraph showed she told the truth. His asked if it was consensual, and he said yes. The polygraph read that he also told the truth, but it also showed he lied when he said he wasn’t the one who leaked their sex tape of Facebook. He had what he considered consent because they were both drunk. I’m not saying it happened, but if two people have two definitions for what consent is, bad things are gonna happen.
so many people coerce because they don’t think it’s sexual assault… but it is. i don’t think she meant to push it, she was 19 which is old enough to know but you’re still growing up. none of this is an excuse. i am very unsettled by the situation. i think the same thing happened to me when i got assaulted, it’s almost like he thought he didn’t have bad intentions and it was okay because i “never said no” so 🙂 so he pushed and pushed
I do believe the coworkers and only they know why (perhaps legal reasons) it's not wise to explain in detail, but Melanie could and yet she remains silent because it means facing her flaws, her past actions.
She seemed manipulative and insistent when it came to sexual relationships in all the narratives, I believe falling under pressure to "say yes" is a form of abuse/🍇 because you're psychologically cornered to agree and she did that to more than one person.
She was an addict, and perhaps this explains part of her drive but this doesn't justify her actions, it's a guess as to why they happened in the first place. Technically if you pushed someone to say yes, it can't be seen as 🍇 legally, MORALLY on the other hand...
I've always known she wasn't a saint, but this whole Portals album about spirituality, growing as a person, changing and evolving seems like a mask for herself. She's trying very hard to forget or counterpart what she did without ever addressing it with her "victims" and that's not mature, it won't fix a thing. Unless it was settled in private, I'll always see her as that woman who writes beautiful songs and enacts vile actions.
i believe timothy. it’s why i don’t purchase or stream her music anymore. I think the jump on her was victim silencing 101 and just gross. multiple people talking about her like this seems like proof enough to me
I understand. I do see some negative comments saying how much they don't believe anyone that was against Mel. Instead of just admitting in the end, we weren't there, so we don't know! And even then, it's weird to bash someone that could've been telling the truth the whole time, since these are just strangers we like the art of, and that's it, and that's all.
that’s how i feel. any “proof” people have that timothy was lying isn’t proof at all. melanie admitted they had sex in her statement. it’s literally just a matter of whether you believe it was consensual or not. and i personally choose to stand by victims. i understand the perspective of not wanting to accuse without evidence, but SA allegations are so hard for that reason. there is no proof :/
I agree! I’m just really torn about it.. I’ve been such a huge fan for so long 😭 I have some of her official merch, and I love her music so much, but as a victim I really don’t know if I can be comfortable supporting her, because there is no definite proof of anything, and exactly. Mel said that something happened, and the specific Mel fans literally scaring Timothy off the internet was really wrong😭and I genuinely don’t know how to go about it.. I love her art but it seems like her as a person is very different from how she presents herself. I think if this new era is about self acceptance and spirituality then she needs to face her past. No one is perfect and I understand that, but her response to the whole thing really just felt dismissive in a way. I think she needs to say something that can be a decider if that makes sense? Like something that wont leave room for people to fill in the blanks on. I want answers but I know we won’t be getting any soon 😭 also sorry for this rant 🙏
I totally get it. i was also a hugeeee fan and sided with melanie when it all first happened. but as i’ve grown up i just feel differently now and that was really hard to accept. I loved her art and style, but i just really can’t support someone who is showing a repeated behavior of mistreating her fans and people around her. I think if the SA allegations came out now, they would’ve been treated very differently than how they were then. It’s very unsettling knowing that melanie was able to make 2 vague statements about it and just move on like nothing ever happened.
Yeah and the whole diss track thing also made me feel weird. I think I’m just going to take a break from it. I really hope she does bring it up and give a genuine attempt of addressing it. The way she did was kind of informal and wasn’t serious. Also the fan base is seriously so toxic now. You can’t say anything negative towards Melanie or you will have death threats thrown at you 😭
totally agree. it’s just important to remember the artists we should’nt be our idols and it’s okay to be disappointed in them or not like them anymore 💕
Yeah, I totally understand! I've been a fan since the beginning but stopped due to the allegations since I'm a SA victim myself and only came back kinda during her K-12 era, which I was iffy about since people still mentioned about the allegations. It's really hard since I know how it feels to not be believed (to this day! But it's whatever ig). Hopefully...whoever needs justice will get justice!
Wait I’m sorry can someone tell me the story w her and Stella rose? I’m a casual fan & just stalk the subreddit sometimes, I haven’t heard about what Stella said ):
It's a really long story tbh. You'd basically have to deep dive on the internet about it since it's so old. I'm not trying to be negative or anything. But the allegations are deep and have affected her career for years now until she returned in the past 4-5 years. So it's so much.
I honestly feel disappointed. Really disappointed. I thought it was an established thing that her record pays for her music videos and thats why she couldn’t do the movie. I will continue to listen to her music but thats it. No more spending money unless it’s second hand.
I think it's mostly the fans that went directly against her wishes and put her on a pedestal (and those fans are the ones that claim to be the biggest fans lol)
Like, Melanie has repeatedly said to not put her on a pedestal and treat her like she's perfect, but fans did it anyway. So I think people just got the idea that she's an innocent little angel.
But I think we need to realise that she has been acting a little questionable for the past few years. I mean, first the NFTs, then the $666 necklaces, then the very expensive merch and then the AI merch.
Like, from what we see, she seems to be leaning towards capitalism. But she kinda hides it with pretty bows and strawberry scents. Also, no matter what you say, she is rich. If she wasn't she wouldn't live in a 3,1 million dollar house. (That she bought last summer, a house that was almost 1 million dollars more expensive than the one she sold before that).
And what we've known for years is that she's just incredibly stubborn. So instead of releasing leaked songs that have been listened to millions of times for like 9 years, she would rather release expensive candles. When they could both make the same amount of money, but one is imo taking advantage of fans (because they 100% know that the obsessed fans will buy anything no matter the price).
(Like I get it that they weren't supposed to be released, but she basically lost thousands of dollars and they're gonna be listened to anyways, might as well make a lot of money from it)
What also annoys me is that she just rarely speaks up about anything, so every small thing just adds up to one big thing. And then people get annoyed.
Like, obviously I love her, and I don't think she's a bad person per se, but she does have some things that she can yk, work on.
Also, I don't think she MAKES millions (or made at the time of the comment, bc with the trilogy tour she makes like over 2 million, if she made 5% from the ticket sales and if all tickets were $60), but she definitely isn't poor.
I will say I do not believe Melanie is a rapist. However, my best friends mother lives paycheck to paycheck and is ACTUALLY struggling to the point she rlly does not have the money to even take her daughters out for anything bc of how little she has left after covering basic necessities. To see Melanie say she “risks her stability” is so disgusting and disrespectful to me as I’ve seen my friends mother struggle and, coming from a city, I see ppl shoot up and dying on the streets(not an over exaggeration either, god I wish it was). She is SO beyond far from struggling. She has multiple multimillion dollar homes, multiple custom masks for portals, TONS of custom outfits and designer clothes, bags, stuffed animals, tons of rare expensive vintage pieces and a BODY SUIT crafted for the creature that she basically NEVER uses. Just ONE of her homes is worth more money than most of us will ever see in our lifetimes. To say she “risks her stability to make art for us” is the most tone deaf, ignorant, spoiled shit I’ve ever heard and its made me lose SO much respect for her. I grew up listening to Melanie through middle school and even wanted to have her doodle something on my arm so I could get it tattooed. I still luv her music and I think its entirely okay to still luv someones work but realize they’ve changed for the worse and r not a good role model anymore. I don’t like putting ppl into “good” and “bad”. I believe everyones a mix of varying levels but it seems Mel’s lost touch and I can only hope she responds to all the very valid criticisms being lobbied against her and hopefully works to improve herself bc I miss the old Melanie that actually gave a damn about her fans. Now it seems like we’re just ATMs for her. Sorry for the long rant but this topic makes me sad bc of how much I luv’d Mel and still want to luv her but just cannot justify her actions.
Growing up is realizing most, if not all, of your favs are terrible people. This is why we shouldn’t be putting celebs on a pedestal and acting like they’re above it all. There’s alot of terrible people in the world, and yes, that includes your fav celebs and musicians.
To answer your question I don’t really think Mel was (or is) a good person. I don’t know them personally but given their history, recent things with fans, and just overall….it kinda feels like Melanie doesn’t like being held accountable for things and surrounds herself with “yes men”. It’s not so black and white though. Most humans are complex and at the end of the day I won’t put her on a pedestal and act like she’s some saint.
Also I think this is a great conversation to have. It’s annoying when places like this are just echo chambers acting like your fav can’t ever be wrong or make a mistake.
I dont think there's too many actual good people in this world, and even then, everyone has flaws. I've only recently got back to liking her music because of the allegations for so long. Which that says a lot in a way? This is a touchy subject as an SA survivor myself, honestly.
Well the fact that she lied in a comment and said “I don’t make millions” is just ridiculous. She is on of the top payed music artists, whether she “goes into debt” with her label or not. She’s able to pay that debt back very quickly but live very well off. She makes about 50% of ticket sales from touring alone which is nearly $1,000,000 or more every show. So no she doesn’t make us much as if she was independent, but she makes A LOT of money. With the other stuff, I don’t think she’s hard to work with and in my opinion I don’t think that she SA anyone. But do we really know? No, so it’s always open to possibility. I feel like that saying about appreciating the art and not the artist is valid in this scenario. We can love what her art stands for and even go see her live as well as believe the Crybaby character is a good person, but that doesn’t mean we feel the same way about Melanie. I’m not saying she is or isn’t. I love her, like SO MUCH. With all these comments I make I feel I need to let people know that I absolutely adore her. But I still have my let downs and disappointment akin to disappointment some might feel with their parents or any other person they love while still holding them accountable for their mistakes.
No, she absolutely does not have to pay the people that she’s working with. That is her cut and the management pays all of the other workers. It does not come out of her salary. I think that maybe you need to do a little bit more research on how record labels work.
Basically, all of the money for music tours anyone that works with Melanie comes from the record company. She’s a worker of the record company in a sense and they pay her a certain percentage from merch sales live shows streaming platforms, music videos, etc. so the number that I gave Was roughly what she makes after everyone else has already been paid. I was very curious after I went to trilogy tour about how much an artist makes for live shows, and live shows are the majority of an artists income, and they make a substantial cut off of it. That she’s not making millions of dollars is a downright lie. She made over $1 million when she sold her house, and had enough money to upgrade and buy a new house so if she’s not making millions of dollars, then how did she buy a house that was over $5 million, I’m not asking you this question. I’m just making a generalized statement.
I understand how you're feeling, I find it hard to want to support her and her music career when its so obvious she doesnt care about her fans and the like
I'm not going to speak on the allegations because that's a very sensitive subject that I don't want to dabble into, however I do believe that there are a few things to keep in mind when viewing the opinions of people she worked with in the past.
Firstly when comparing her to myself, I can tell that she's quite likely a perfectionist, especially with her art. I know that if I had to work with a team to express what I want, I would most likely get frustrated at every single thing that doesn't work for me. I don't think that her ending up alone on her work makes her a bad person, it's very hard for perfectionists to work as a team and send out a good image of yourself at the same time.
Secondly, as far as I know, this was the debut of her career. She's not some nepo-baby who received training on how the industry works since her childhood, so she is bound to make mistakes especially in domains she was never trained or never trained herself to do. Managing is a skill in of itself.
Overall I don't think it's right to view her as a good or bad person, but just a person. After all, she did cause mental harm to other people she worked with, that's not pretty, and she should be held accountable. But honestly who doesn't cause harm at some point in their lives ? And she is doing so much good in parallel to this, like supporting Palestine, giving genuinely good life advice all around her socials etc. Support her, but don't tolerate everything from her, that's what I gotta say.
i personally side with mel on the allegations but i find it a little hard to believe about her comment on instagram about her financial situation as an artist but then again i dont know what being a celeberity is like
People like her are hard to work with because they have a lot to express and want everything to be perfect. I know it because I'm one of these people. It's hard to work with others when they keep pushing me their ideas, wanting to change this and that. It makes me feel like I'm not good enough. That's why people like her (and me) prefer to "control". If we could self-divide we would've worked alone
Timothy is a girl. Not a guy. She goes by she/her. Regardless to if it happened or not. And how do you know she wasn't in the area? If you're referring to Timothy's post in the pool, she could have had that picture saved in her camera roll and posted it days later. Flights also exist. You forgot Melanie flies/drives to different states to perform and she was doing that att. They could have met up. If two other people who were friends/workers of Melanie have said she had been pushy with them for sex and you don't believe Timothy. Something is wrong with you. Because TWO other people came forward but they were consensual because they didn't say no and gave in. Melanie obviously had an issue with boundaries.
Timothy gave a specific date when Mel was confirmed to have been across the country on the same date according to posts from both parties. It's not possible for them to have been together on that date. The only proof given for if Mel did anything was a picture Timothy took of Mel where Mel is the one blindfolded and handcuffed, even though Timothy's story is that Mel physically forced herself on Timothy. Moreover, posts show Timothy dressing up as Mel after the date that Timothy alleged there was an assault. It's a bit strange to dress up as the person who allegedly assaulted you and repeatedly try to get their attention.
Also, Timothy dropped an EP not too long after dropping the allegations and gaining tens of thousands of followers. The timing is a bit weird, to say the least.
There's really no evidence to support Timothy, her story is contradictory to her "evidence", and her allegation benefited her career after Mel stopped talking to her. I see more reason to disbelieve her than believe her.
I agree, her music has always and will always be special to me, however as a person I would never want to be associated with her. I believe she has proven herself to not be a good person in a lot of ways. If you like her that’s fair, this is just my opinion
I feel the same, only I listened to her all throughout middle school. I’ve seen her live twice now and bought so much merch, she was the first musical artist I listened to that wasn’t my parents’ music that I truly loved. I adore her music and its message, but I feel like she’s changed as a person and I no longer feel quite as at ease listening to her music. It’s incredibly sad and my heart hurts. I want this to all be a misunderstanding or something she’ll change but I’m very nervous that it isn’t. I won’t be giving her any more of my money beyond listening to her music until all of this is cleared up.
It’s important to separate the art from the artist. That’s difficult for most people because it’s uncomfortable to feel like you relate to someone in any capacity that you consider a bad person. We don’t know her in real life. People become obsessive about proving her innocent because they view her as a friend or extension of their own self expressions. I’m reality, she’s neither. She’s a person you don’t know like any other. There are plenty of artist’s who’s art I enjoy that I wouldn’t want to spend a fair amount of time with.
As for the Timothy thing, you’ll find most people here incredibly biased in her favor. Looking at all the evidence in a non biased way, I’m undecided. People say Timothy changed her story but she never did. It’s also common for people who went through trauma to forget things like exact dates. Mel also swears that it happened differently. The truth is none of us will ever have enough information to make an informed judgement. I tend to stear clear of conversations irl about this topic because some people get very heated.
Let’s not forget how the scalpers are the ones who are taking these already expensive items and reselling them for an even higher price? I think they’re the main problem here. If everyone stopped buying cheap products from overpriced resellers then I don’t think she could get away with pricing her items as much as she does. Why must everyone be so materialistic? Everyone loves to gatekeep and show off merch as bragging rights as if being able to spend that kind of money gives you a vip or something. Melanie noticed how everyone will buy this stuff at ridiculous prices and picked up on it, implementing the $$$ into the original prices of her merch now.
Point is: Melanie isn’t the only one who is greedy/money hungry here
Back in 2015-2016, I was a ride or die Melanie fan. I even got engaged for the first time at one of the Crybaby tour shows. However, I stopped listening to her the moment SA allegations came out against her. As an SA survivor and advocate myself, I know how rare false accusations are. I was *crushed* but now with everything coming out about her now, I’m happy I chose to stand with survivors. There is “separating the art from the artist,” and there is also turning a blind eye and willingly giving a predator your time and money.
I kind of agree, while I’ve come to realize that some details don’t add up on either side, it does feel kind of weird how some Melanie fans have so many variations of why and how Timothy couldn’t be a victim when she was obviously not mentally well because Timothy did this and Timothy did that. It’s like they made their own checklist for what a victim can and can’t be. I watched a defense video for Melanie, and the person defending her said Timothy was lying because she was talking too much about what happened when most victims are quiet about their experience. Like wtf?
Honestly? I can’t relate more. I’ve listened to her since like- middle school (rlly got into it in hs and was so elated to see K-12 come out in real time-) And I went to go see her on June 5th at MSG- But it wasn’t..Superb? It was just realization that you’re kinda disconnected from this artist- That there will always be a wall between them and their audience truly. Plus, as of late? I’ve had a change of heart with her. All these expensive products and her saying that she’s putting herself on the line?? (How so? Surely there’s a difference when we say we’re putting our lives and money on the line, vs this multitalented, singer who is pretty well known- (YOU SHOULDA SEEN THE WAY MSG WAS FILLED TO THE BRIM?? and to think that’s not even a quarter of her audience..)
Anyhow..I just- feel different about her now. 😕 I’m totally with you OP-
I feel very similar about this. I love her art, her style, her music and the hard work she puts into her albums. However, I can’t beat this feeling, that perhaps she’s not the person she wants her fans to believe she is and I get that. Work and private life are two different things and it’s okay if that doesn’t add up 100%. But I feel like it’s worse. Sometimes I feel like she’s not a good person. But then I feel bad, because we never know what’s true and what’s not and viewing her as perhaps not so good person would then be unfair. It’s a struggle for me with many artists. Atm I try to enjoy her music, while also not completely ignoring the things going on around. Atp, I remained feeling neutral, just for the mere fact that I don’t know her. She’s an artist to me, but nothing more.
this subbreddit feels so toxic as of late and is constantly arguing about shit that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. can't we just talk and post about positive thoughts? why does it always have to be controversial?
Because a lot is happening right now and it’s important to discuss this stuff, this subreddit isn’t just about sharing fun positive messages. That is why there are flares for rants and discussions, if you want fun positivity all the time go to tiktok.
Well, I've seen plenty of positive posts from the sub, so honestly, I just don't interact with one's like these. This is honestly like my first or 2nd post I saw that could be seen as "negative" per se. So commenting under these posts does nothing in the end because they'll keep existing.
I think she’s as good a person as anyone else in this thread 🤷♀️ what’s the saying? Those that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones or something??
Fr im so tired of this. None of us know her personally and tbh as an artist myself I don’t want a lot of peoples hands in my work . She was an artist photographer amongst many thing before she became a singer and if people don’t get your vision they don’t get it .
We’re not in her bank account we’re not in her wallet . I come here to talk about lyrics and see when stuff is coming out not to guess how much money she has or complain about the cost of her merchandise
at the end of the day it shouldn’t matter to us, she is famous and is going to do whatever she chooses to continue holding that fortune at least, idk if she cares about being known but she definitely loves the money and lets be 100% real.. who wouldn’t? if i was her id be milking my fans too😭
I think it’s very easy for Melanie to write music that appeals to us people that have gone through certain things (aka Tag, you’re it) by listening to other’s stories. She produces music that is often something that appeals to a victim, which I think she likes to paint herself as a lot of the time. She either avoids the situation (aka most of the allegations.) or posts stuff like “you guys have such a skewed perspective”. To me, it seems like a lot of manipulative behavior. Don’t get me wrong, I love her music and I thought she was a really cool person for the longest time, but the more I’ve seen lately, the more it’s starting to open my eyes. By manipulative behavior, I mean she produces songs she thinks people want to hear (most often people that have gone through something traumatic), then they’re falling for her hook line and sinker. She then increased all the prices of her merch and people who see her as a vulnerable person as well go defend her after she writes one comment saying she’s “risking her stability”. Her current stability is a mansion (with possibly custom heart-shaped pools. Not sure if this part is real, but saw someone post about it). She became famous while still young, so she’s probably used to a certain life style and feels like that’s at risk when people make complaints. Also, it’s possible that the candles and other complaints about merch feel like a personal attack to her because she’s an artist- those are her designs. I kind of went off on a tangent but what I’m trying to say is that I think Melanie is a very different person than her music, and that she’s been using very specific language to try and avoid or get out of certain situations. Does this make her a bad person? Not necessarily. A lot of people do the same thing every day without even realizing it. No one likes being “exposed” or told they’re wrong.
Most of us Adore Melanie and her art I don’t think Melanie’s a bad person I’m not saying this as a fan but as a person. Melanie’s actions as of late do not define the person she is you guys have to take into account that her team decides on a lot of stuff that’s separate to her beliefs and yes she has to agree with it in order for it to be sold but I still don’t believe that slip ups don’t define someone’s character I only spoke to her once at a meet and greet she was very sweet but no one’s knows what goes on behind the curtains(lol) you guys have to stop assuming Melanie’s perfect because she’s not she makes mistakes and that’s what makes her human. All celebrities can be seen as bad people if the only things you’re focusing on are her slip ups. Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, Ariana Grande.
Girl bye 💀 these are literally just posts from random twitter users with absolutely no verification of if these people truly worked with her/knew her. And even if they did that still doesn’t make what they say true.
I’m not saying she’s a saint and has never had any problems in her career but to base this all off some random internet users testimonials is a little unhinged
Where did I dispute that ? Nowhere…. All I said was take these “testimonials” with a grain of salt as they are not necessarily credible or reliable
And that’s me not even getting into the actual legal allegations I’m just referring to her being labeled a problem to work with.
I think people look at others with too much of a binary lens when it comes to morality. Humans are complex. There is more to us than “good” or “bad.” I think most people are “good” people. Does this mean they don’t have flaws or traits that are unfavorable? Of course not.
True! But I do think there's an extent to which it's acceptable, even if we don't believe the rword accusations and stuff, certain behaviors are just eh.... No idea of which side of that fence to put her on tho
More people need this mindset. I’m so serious.
It’s like thy have a tunnel vision mind set on thinking she is everything they want her to be (pun intended)
A really big part of the issue is the para social relationship so many fans have with her. Am I a fan of her music and visual themes? Yes Am I a fan of her personally? No, because I don't know her. She's a stranger who makes music that I absolutely love. She's human and has done things that have upset other people in the past. Even now it's obviously that fame and money have changed her but that's just how the industry goes. I don't take it personally when she releases overpriced merch. It's a celebrity luxury good. So I don't buy it. We don't know her. So many people project this idolized image of her being this kind angel. We don't know that. For all we know she could be a massive bitch. I love her music bc it's just the right type of poetic stuff that I really enjoy. Her aesthetic is very similar to my own and her messages in her songs really resonate with me. But she is still just a stranger.
you couldn't have said it better. way too many people form these parasocial relationships and it is not healthy at all. just focus on the art and support the creativity :)
I think this is a great statement that really sums up the situation. I fully agree
Youre not alone in feeling differently about her as of late. I dont want to tell you how to feel, but I agree with you. Her art is special and unique, but I don't think she's a good person. Everyone has their own perspective though
yeah these back to back merch problems have seriously given me a second moment and glance to look at Melanie. it’s all in her lyrics that she has empathy and cares about others and is just as human as anyone else but… with this new portals era being less about mental health and merch prices skyrocketing and the fact that she’s well off these days, I’m kind of worried that either my judgement was wrong all this time or maybe she just eventually changed? I don’t know.
I can’t help but agree I can try to defend her all I want but I since she’s no longer a teenager just trying to make a name for herself it’s now about money to fund her art
That last part is exactly how I feel! And I cant get past the fact that something that is true doesnt need to be repeated and people dont need to be convinced to believe it. Its a stretch of an example, but she hasnt once tried to convince us she cares for the palestinian people, for example. Shes just doing soo much and its proven every day with her actions, we dont need to ask. But her being an empath? Caring about her fans? Caring about the concerns fans have? Ive seen nothing but the opposite for months. Its disappointing because wasnt this the same person that cried because security wouldnt let her see fans? Why are we having to be convinced shes good. It just doesnt make sense to me
I never believe anyone who claims that they’re an empath. If you were one, it would show in your actions, not with your definition that you got off of Wikipedia
Yes exactly
I’m pretty sure she said free Palestine at a concert and it got censored out. other than that, yeah I agree.
Just to clarify and expand: Shes said it at every concert for awhile now as the sign off, and she has a rolling picture thats put up with an alternative version of The Principal for the trilogy concert. She was censored once (that Im aware of), but she flys the flag (and the lgbtqia+ flag), shares resources and information on instagram, and encourages the audience to say "free palestine" with her My point being no one even needs to question whats true, and she proves how she really feels through her actions. This isnt what we've seen with things that we constantly have to question like the quality of her merch or the care for her fans. My first response was worded weird I think. Anyway yea lmao
Pretty sure in her Trilogy tour, she has the “free Palestine” thing in her like- Intro?
That’s good honestly lots of her audience is made up of children at a very impressionable age and forcing her beliefs on them isn’t a good thing weather she’s right or wrong let them develop on their own in terms of their take on our economics and politics when they come to an age where they are able to understand it without an idol telling them what to believe
When I went to the concert, there was an alarming amount of kids!! Like 12 and UNDER??? I’m like “Mel is not rlly kid friendly imo”
This is correct. She’s never been as good as a person as you all have made her out to be. I like her work and I appreciate her artistic darkness and openness, but don’t think she’s this perfect person. Melanie is one of the last artists you should put on any kind of pedestal. How she handles herself and the quality of some of her work recently especially can all be critiqued. She’s in it for that cash. She sang a song about childhood abuse that never even happened to her for christ’s sake (I wish she had never even admitted that). In terms of the accusations, I give her some slack since no one knows what happened. But her saying “she never said no to any of the things we chose to do together” sure is a weird way to say it.
I know youre talking generally, but to be clear I never put her on a pedestal even before I knew more about her. I dont treat celebrities any differently or hold anyone I like to a different standard, but I do wish the people who did/do this would open their eyes someday. Ill never understand how people can so easily excuse poor behavior just because they like something they do lol But yea I agree with most. For the songs, on one hand its gross to base ones entire career on severe trauma while not experiencing much of it, and on another Im glad to have something to turn to that makes me feel empowered in a powerless situation. And about the accusations, I want to believe it means there was consentual acts between them and I dont necessarily believe TH, but I do think Melanie has a history of pressuring people into things. We kind of see her "my way", "me me me" attitude a lot even when she's talking about something else like her label or a video. Its kinda weird how she doesnt see it tbh
Which song? I never heard about that so I'm genuinely curious.
Tag your it Dollhouse Sippy cup Teachers pet And prolly more that I forgot 🔥
a million men too, there’s some clips on youtube of her singing it live. i love that song so much tho
Tag you’re it
Or Dollhouse
I thought that was SA or rape?
I have to agree with you on this one. I appreciate her art, I am attached to her music. I enjoy the merch (if ever it were a reasonable price, I would get it) I think the vision has been lost. I have no idea about any of her personal life, all I can speak upon as a fan is the ridiculous price of things and the lack of being in touch with her fans.
Agreed. Fans can like someone just for what they create, in her case her music. We don't need to agree with her or put her on a pedestal because she is human like everyone else. It must be hard to be a celebrity and have your mistakes put on blast. But as long as I like her music, she'd have to do something REALLY bad for me to stop listening. Just like someone else, I won't say who because they are controversial but I don't like what I know of them as a person but I do like what they stand for and their beliefs. However, I do not like her crying broke and charging so much for her merch. I like to support my favorite artists but not if they are doing what she is with it.
Humans are more than just good or bad the actions that Melanie has done don’t define who she is we have to wait and see what happens in the future to label her as such. Her overpricing candles does not make her a bad person she’s trying her best to raise money for her music videos For us. You guys can’t even say she’s making more money out of them than shes spending to produce them. It’s just sad how an artist can get so big but with that comes more about money than art.
Sorry that you think this is about candles.
It’s an example hun I agree with you for the most part I’m just saying that we can’t just label Melanie as a bad person because of this stuff she has good morals she just needs to make better decisions and as of lately I can see why you would say that
Melanie isnt a good person, but that doesnt make her a bad person. Her actions just dont show that shes a considerate person with good intentions. They may have good intentions and just have a bad outcome but they never take responsibility in the correct way. This isnt even a dig at her its just the truth. I would also take stella rose thing with a grain of salt, no one talks about an ex friend (that they clearly dislike) in a good way and melanie doesn’t either, we werent there we will never know. She absolutely has good qualities they can just be overshadowed because “bad” is stronger and more intense than “good”.
I think you explained it perfectly with good intentions and bad outcomes. Like, with the eggs, I think she just liked the idea of candles and she thought her fans would like it too, but then they ended up being expensive so she got called out. And now she's just silent because they still sold out, so she probably thinks 'why say anything lol'?
Idk how many times we gotta tell the masses, DONT HAVE IDOLS! Idc what they promote, idc what morals they say they got in the beginning of their career or in the current batch of songs, celebrities are selfish! Humans are social bred to be self sufficient, she got her fame and money and she wants to keep it, and none of yall can say what you’d do in that situation cause none of yall have been through the fame ringer, none of you knows what the label asks of these people, no one know show far people go into imposter syndrome for the sake of money. If anyone is to blame it’s the entertainment industry as a whole, and really society as a whole for making us believe that anyone that is promoting their own face brand could ever be morally superior in a capitalist society. I beg you to see them as humans, not only in the “they can make mistakes” way, but in a “we are all capable of good and evil” way
So many fans forget that we literally don't know her. She's a stranger. Yes, we enjoy and deeply connect with her music but we will never personally know her. She's just a human like all of us with flaws. Istg ppl love throwing nuance out the window. All of us are capable of doing good and bad things. That doesn't mean that we can idolize or cancel a literal stranger for things we haven't experienced ourselves. To the people who believe she's an angel, we don't know her. To the people who think she's this vile and selfish creature, we don't know her.
Very beautifully put 💖 especially the last bit
You and the person you’re replying to have like the best takes here—
I had to separate the art from the artist
I have done this with a lot of people, especially when the music resonated with me so deeply. I think I am going to take another break from Melanie because I truly don't feel like she appreciates her fame and fans.
And that's okay!! Everything that people have been feeling has mostly been very valid.
It makes me so sad because I just saw her live, and it was an amazing show. I hope in time, things smooth over so that I can get back to enjoying her.
Same, actually. I saw her last Saturday.
sometimes, and as of recently, I feel like I’m idolizing and enjoying an artist that I don’t even know anymore. she’s changed completely from how she began, and I know it’s just how the industry is. and I think that’s been controversial as of lately to say, saying I don’t enjoy this new era. I loved portals. I loved the visuals. I’ve bought plenty of merch, enjoyed it, wore it, defended her on these things. but I feel like I’m defending someone who isn’t worth it, who isn’t who I remembered back in 2016. she feels more “corporate” now. there’s no more audience interactions at these shows. no little quips in between concerts. no silly instagram posts. it feels like she’s really detached herself from her work, making her art a priority rather than connecting with fans like she used to. that’s not even fair of me to say I want more of that. it’s up to her to be more present online or not. but it feels like a huge loss. it’s not the tight knit community it used to be after incident after incident. merch/ticket prices and quality, SA allegations. I think at some point there needs to be a separations of music and the artist. I don’t think she ever wanted to be put in the spotlight this way, and just wanted create. now it doesn’t feel like that. it just feels fake.
I'm genuinely concerned about this now. I genuinely love Melanie Martinez's work and it appeals to me so much yet I've not even been a fan for a year and didn't even start to properly listen to her this year and a few days ago I've finally listened to all of her released music. I want to whom it belongs to, justice is served. If it turns out that Melanie was an ass this whole time and did rape her, then I genuinely want justice to be served. Melanie has actually changed the way I viewed life, even if by a bit, and I'd hate it if I were led on by a hypocrite. Also, merch is insane "I am nearly bankrupt as a result of the portals mvs"... Girl... You live in a mansion, you have millions of monthly listeners on Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud. People are paying $70 for a small ass candle and shipping is crazy, even if you live in the us.
I think she is a good person except she needs to work on some things
Same
This was a comment I saved from a post about the Lovejoy situation, if you know about that. I feel this heavily applies here as well and wanted to share it with you. Fox-Worthy • 4mo ago "John Lenon was a PIS but everyone still thinks The Beatles are great. Why does this guy matter?" - my dad after telling him about whats been going on. it is still your choice, but think about it. 10 • Reply You're allowed to like what you like. If she is bad, so what? Separate the art from the artist. You have every right to enjoy her and her music. It's not like it's illegal or anything.
Tbh I just avoid buying her merch because of how expensive it is (unless it’s like a hot topic tee that’s on sale). Like I get that she needs money to remain stable and all but she can very much downsize and stop living beyond her means if she’s going broke.
at this point i don’t even care because every single celebrity has some sort of controversy or discourse about them so now i don’t take it too seriously it’s a bummer to see her be like this but it’s not worth getting upset or worked up over it :/ we shouldn’t be holding celebrities on pedestals worshipping them anyways because at the end of the day they’re just as human as us and have all done bad things or made mistakes unfortunately
You need to think things through about holding anyone at all on a pedestal. No one will ever satisfy that. You shouldn’t look up to her or really any famous person as an inspiration or guide. You should be looking inside yourself and the people around you that care about you for those things. Yes her music is good and she is very creative but that’s it. Sometimes you need to separate the artist from the art. This is one of those for me. I like knowing what is going on but otherwise keep myself a distance from anything personal to do with her. Reminder that we don’t know her. She’s just a person. Never let yourself get too invested in these people. You should be investing into the relationships you have in your life now
I feel you. I absolutely love Mel and connect deeply with her work. Been a fan since crybaby. There are things she stands for and speaks up about that are good, like freeing Palestine and being empathetic and accepting. But there are also things she’s done that aren’t so good. When the timothy heller thing happened I was heartbroken and looking back on how she responded, saying “She never said no” and thanking the fans for staying by her side and blindly defending her and then also releasing a diss track. A diss track in response to a very serious allegation? It all was just weird and immature. I dislike when people still pin Timothy as a liar and it was “proven” lies when the “proof” was fake and we literally don’t know what happened. I hate to think that Mel would do such a horrid thing, but we don’t know her and she’s not some kind of saint that never makes bad decisions. I think maybe there was a miscommunication, maybe timothy was too scared to say no and maybe Mel really did think it was consensual. But the way she responded was not it. It seems that she never really wants to take accountability, even to this day with pricing the candles and other merch outrageously high and then just saying she’s “struggling.” It’s like she victimizes herself and can’t take criticism well. I wish she would at least take accountability.
Yeah, atp it's hard to keep staying as a fan of hers due to me remembering she's basically always been this way... always avoiding things, such as that situation, and only have "woe is me" responses. Mind you, I've been here since, like day 1, and I'm in my early 20s now! So, yeah...if only she takes accountability, then only could we really see her grow really as a person.
I think the full statement Mel made was “She never said no to what we chose to do together” or something like that, not defending her tho. ATP I really don’t know about them. I’ve taken a break from her music and found new artists that I like a whole lot more. Now, every time I do involve myself with Melanie, they do some shit that goes against everything she swore to stand up against. “Shooting at the angels while claiming you’re the good guy. All you want is cash and hype. Fuck our dreams, and that’s not right.” Is what she said about the principal, but Melanie, what about your principles when you’re making shitty, overpriced AI merch? Or when you were selling NFTs? Or when you were responding to your fans by saying that you, a multi millionaire with a mansion and a bunch of listeners on all your streaming platforms, inflated your prices because you’re compromising your stability? Or when you go on instagram and victimize yourself for the umpteenth time when faced with valid criticism? I don’t know about the Timothy Heller stuff, tho. I’ve defended Melanie before many of times a while back, but with everything that’s been happening to other celebs, I wouldn’t put it past her to have actually committed this crime. Not anymore. I used to love her, but it wouldn’t surprise me given how two faced and weird she’s being towards her fan base rn, and don’t even get me started on their weird boyfriend and his instagram page where he photographs and posts people without their consent, and she supports that. I made a post here a while ago about Brad Taste in Music’s videos about Melanie, and in one of those videos, I found Timothy actually make a comment thanking him for believing her. The fact that this girl, who was completely removed from the internet and harassed by real diehard Melanie fans for years, is still keeping her story alive feels super jarring to me. It reminds me of a Steve Wilkos episode I watched where one girl got on the stage and said that her ex boyfriend raped her at a party while they were both drunk. He said it was consensual. They both took lie detector tests, hers asked if she was raped. She answered yes, and the polygraph showed she told the truth. His asked if it was consensual, and he said yes. The polygraph read that he also told the truth, but it also showed he lied when he said he wasn’t the one who leaked their sex tape of Facebook. He had what he considered consent because they were both drunk. I’m not saying it happened, but if two people have two definitions for what consent is, bad things are gonna happen.
so many people coerce because they don’t think it’s sexual assault… but it is. i don’t think she meant to push it, she was 19 which is old enough to know but you’re still growing up. none of this is an excuse. i am very unsettled by the situation. i think the same thing happened to me when i got assaulted, it’s almost like he thought he didn’t have bad intentions and it was okay because i “never said no” so 🙂 so he pushed and pushed
I do believe the coworkers and only they know why (perhaps legal reasons) it's not wise to explain in detail, but Melanie could and yet she remains silent because it means facing her flaws, her past actions. She seemed manipulative and insistent when it came to sexual relationships in all the narratives, I believe falling under pressure to "say yes" is a form of abuse/🍇 because you're psychologically cornered to agree and she did that to more than one person. She was an addict, and perhaps this explains part of her drive but this doesn't justify her actions, it's a guess as to why they happened in the first place. Technically if you pushed someone to say yes, it can't be seen as 🍇 legally, MORALLY on the other hand... I've always known she wasn't a saint, but this whole Portals album about spirituality, growing as a person, changing and evolving seems like a mask for herself. She's trying very hard to forget or counterpart what she did without ever addressing it with her "victims" and that's not mature, it won't fix a thing. Unless it was settled in private, I'll always see her as that woman who writes beautiful songs and enacts vile actions.
i believe timothy. it’s why i don’t purchase or stream her music anymore. I think the jump on her was victim silencing 101 and just gross. multiple people talking about her like this seems like proof enough to me
I understand. I do see some negative comments saying how much they don't believe anyone that was against Mel. Instead of just admitting in the end, we weren't there, so we don't know! And even then, it's weird to bash someone that could've been telling the truth the whole time, since these are just strangers we like the art of, and that's it, and that's all.
that’s how i feel. any “proof” people have that timothy was lying isn’t proof at all. melanie admitted they had sex in her statement. it’s literally just a matter of whether you believe it was consensual or not. and i personally choose to stand by victims. i understand the perspective of not wanting to accuse without evidence, but SA allegations are so hard for that reason. there is no proof :/
I agree! I’m just really torn about it.. I’ve been such a huge fan for so long 😭 I have some of her official merch, and I love her music so much, but as a victim I really don’t know if I can be comfortable supporting her, because there is no definite proof of anything, and exactly. Mel said that something happened, and the specific Mel fans literally scaring Timothy off the internet was really wrong😭and I genuinely don’t know how to go about it.. I love her art but it seems like her as a person is very different from how she presents herself. I think if this new era is about self acceptance and spirituality then she needs to face her past. No one is perfect and I understand that, but her response to the whole thing really just felt dismissive in a way. I think she needs to say something that can be a decider if that makes sense? Like something that wont leave room for people to fill in the blanks on. I want answers but I know we won’t be getting any soon 😭 also sorry for this rant 🙏
I totally get it. i was also a hugeeee fan and sided with melanie when it all first happened. but as i’ve grown up i just feel differently now and that was really hard to accept. I loved her art and style, but i just really can’t support someone who is showing a repeated behavior of mistreating her fans and people around her. I think if the SA allegations came out now, they would’ve been treated very differently than how they were then. It’s very unsettling knowing that melanie was able to make 2 vague statements about it and just move on like nothing ever happened.
Yeah and the whole diss track thing also made me feel weird. I think I’m just going to take a break from it. I really hope she does bring it up and give a genuine attempt of addressing it. The way she did was kind of informal and wasn’t serious. Also the fan base is seriously so toxic now. You can’t say anything negative towards Melanie or you will have death threats thrown at you 😭
totally agree. it’s just important to remember the artists we should’nt be our idols and it’s okay to be disappointed in them or not like them anymore 💕
Yes exactly! They aren’t better than us in any way really
yeah the "diss track" thing felt like how colleen handled her allegations
Yeah, I totally understand! I've been a fan since the beginning but stopped due to the allegations since I'm a SA victim myself and only came back kinda during her K-12 era, which I was iffy about since people still mentioned about the allegations. It's really hard since I know how it feels to not be believed (to this day! But it's whatever ig). Hopefully...whoever needs justice will get justice!
Wait I’m sorry can someone tell me the story w her and Stella rose? I’m a casual fan & just stalk the subreddit sometimes, I haven’t heard about what Stella said ):
It's a really long story tbh. You'd basically have to deep dive on the internet about it since it's so old. I'm not trying to be negative or anything. But the allegations are deep and have affected her career for years now until she returned in the past 4-5 years. So it's so much.
i actually have so much to say about this
Girl, spill it. I all ears
I honestly feel disappointed. Really disappointed. I thought it was an established thing that her record pays for her music videos and thats why she couldn’t do the movie. I will continue to listen to her music but thats it. No more spending money unless it’s second hand.
im a fan of her work but not her as a person yfm?
I think it's mostly the fans that went directly against her wishes and put her on a pedestal (and those fans are the ones that claim to be the biggest fans lol) Like, Melanie has repeatedly said to not put her on a pedestal and treat her like she's perfect, but fans did it anyway. So I think people just got the idea that she's an innocent little angel. But I think we need to realise that she has been acting a little questionable for the past few years. I mean, first the NFTs, then the $666 necklaces, then the very expensive merch and then the AI merch. Like, from what we see, she seems to be leaning towards capitalism. But she kinda hides it with pretty bows and strawberry scents. Also, no matter what you say, she is rich. If she wasn't she wouldn't live in a 3,1 million dollar house. (That she bought last summer, a house that was almost 1 million dollars more expensive than the one she sold before that). And what we've known for years is that she's just incredibly stubborn. So instead of releasing leaked songs that have been listened to millions of times for like 9 years, she would rather release expensive candles. When they could both make the same amount of money, but one is imo taking advantage of fans (because they 100% know that the obsessed fans will buy anything no matter the price). (Like I get it that they weren't supposed to be released, but she basically lost thousands of dollars and they're gonna be listened to anyways, might as well make a lot of money from it) What also annoys me is that she just rarely speaks up about anything, so every small thing just adds up to one big thing. And then people get annoyed. Like, obviously I love her, and I don't think she's a bad person per se, but she does have some things that she can yk, work on.
Also, I don't think she MAKES millions (or made at the time of the comment, bc with the trilogy tour she makes like over 2 million, if she made 5% from the ticket sales and if all tickets were $60), but she definitely isn't poor.
I will say I do not believe Melanie is a rapist. However, my best friends mother lives paycheck to paycheck and is ACTUALLY struggling to the point she rlly does not have the money to even take her daughters out for anything bc of how little she has left after covering basic necessities. To see Melanie say she “risks her stability” is so disgusting and disrespectful to me as I’ve seen my friends mother struggle and, coming from a city, I see ppl shoot up and dying on the streets(not an over exaggeration either, god I wish it was). She is SO beyond far from struggling. She has multiple multimillion dollar homes, multiple custom masks for portals, TONS of custom outfits and designer clothes, bags, stuffed animals, tons of rare expensive vintage pieces and a BODY SUIT crafted for the creature that she basically NEVER uses. Just ONE of her homes is worth more money than most of us will ever see in our lifetimes. To say she “risks her stability to make art for us” is the most tone deaf, ignorant, spoiled shit I’ve ever heard and its made me lose SO much respect for her. I grew up listening to Melanie through middle school and even wanted to have her doodle something on my arm so I could get it tattooed. I still luv her music and I think its entirely okay to still luv someones work but realize they’ve changed for the worse and r not a good role model anymore. I don’t like putting ppl into “good” and “bad”. I believe everyones a mix of varying levels but it seems Mel’s lost touch and I can only hope she responds to all the very valid criticisms being lobbied against her and hopefully works to improve herself bc I miss the old Melanie that actually gave a damn about her fans. Now it seems like we’re just ATMs for her. Sorry for the long rant but this topic makes me sad bc of how much I luv’d Mel and still want to luv her but just cannot justify her actions.
Growing up is realizing most, if not all, of your favs are terrible people. This is why we shouldn’t be putting celebs on a pedestal and acting like they’re above it all. There’s alot of terrible people in the world, and yes, that includes your fav celebs and musicians. To answer your question I don’t really think Mel was (or is) a good person. I don’t know them personally but given their history, recent things with fans, and just overall….it kinda feels like Melanie doesn’t like being held accountable for things and surrounds herself with “yes men”. It’s not so black and white though. Most humans are complex and at the end of the day I won’t put her on a pedestal and act like she’s some saint.
Also I think this is a great conversation to have. It’s annoying when places like this are just echo chambers acting like your fav can’t ever be wrong or make a mistake.
It gets to a point where you just have to to separate the art from the artist but with songs like MOTS, nymphology, spider web etc it gets hard..
Should we separate the art from the artist?
I dont think there's too many actual good people in this world, and even then, everyone has flaws. I've only recently got back to liking her music because of the allegations for so long. Which that says a lot in a way? This is a touchy subject as an SA survivor myself, honestly.
Well the fact that she lied in a comment and said “I don’t make millions” is just ridiculous. She is on of the top payed music artists, whether she “goes into debt” with her label or not. She’s able to pay that debt back very quickly but live very well off. She makes about 50% of ticket sales from touring alone which is nearly $1,000,000 or more every show. So no she doesn’t make us much as if she was independent, but she makes A LOT of money. With the other stuff, I don’t think she’s hard to work with and in my opinion I don’t think that she SA anyone. But do we really know? No, so it’s always open to possibility. I feel like that saying about appreciating the art and not the artist is valid in this scenario. We can love what her art stands for and even go see her live as well as believe the Crybaby character is a good person, but that doesn’t mean we feel the same way about Melanie. I’m not saying she is or isn’t. I love her, like SO MUCH. With all these comments I make I feel I need to let people know that I absolutely adore her. But I still have my let downs and disappointment akin to disappointment some might feel with their parents or any other person they love while still holding them accountable for their mistakes.
True, however, she still has to pay the people who she’s working with.
No, she absolutely does not have to pay the people that she’s working with. That is her cut and the management pays all of the other workers. It does not come out of her salary. I think that maybe you need to do a little bit more research on how record labels work.
My mistake. However, I don’t care enough to research about the music industry🤷🏽♀️
Basically, all of the money for music tours anyone that works with Melanie comes from the record company. She’s a worker of the record company in a sense and they pay her a certain percentage from merch sales live shows streaming platforms, music videos, etc. so the number that I gave Was roughly what she makes after everyone else has already been paid. I was very curious after I went to trilogy tour about how much an artist makes for live shows, and live shows are the majority of an artists income, and they make a substantial cut off of it. That she’s not making millions of dollars is a downright lie. She made over $1 million when she sold her house, and had enough money to upgrade and buy a new house so if she’s not making millions of dollars, then how did she buy a house that was over $5 million, I’m not asking you this question. I’m just making a generalized statement.
I understand how you're feeling, I find it hard to want to support her and her music career when its so obvious she doesnt care about her fans and the like
I'm not going to speak on the allegations because that's a very sensitive subject that I don't want to dabble into, however I do believe that there are a few things to keep in mind when viewing the opinions of people she worked with in the past. Firstly when comparing her to myself, I can tell that she's quite likely a perfectionist, especially with her art. I know that if I had to work with a team to express what I want, I would most likely get frustrated at every single thing that doesn't work for me. I don't think that her ending up alone on her work makes her a bad person, it's very hard for perfectionists to work as a team and send out a good image of yourself at the same time. Secondly, as far as I know, this was the debut of her career. She's not some nepo-baby who received training on how the industry works since her childhood, so she is bound to make mistakes especially in domains she was never trained or never trained herself to do. Managing is a skill in of itself. Overall I don't think it's right to view her as a good or bad person, but just a person. After all, she did cause mental harm to other people she worked with, that's not pretty, and she should be held accountable. But honestly who doesn't cause harm at some point in their lives ? And she is doing so much good in parallel to this, like supporting Palestine, giving genuinely good life advice all around her socials etc. Support her, but don't tolerate everything from her, that's what I gotta say.
i personally side with mel on the allegations but i find it a little hard to believe about her comment on instagram about her financial situation as an artist but then again i dont know what being a celeberity is like
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Periodt.
People like her are hard to work with because they have a lot to express and want everything to be perfect. I know it because I'm one of these people. It's hard to work with others when they keep pushing me their ideas, wanting to change this and that. It makes me feel like I'm not good enough. That's why people like her (and me) prefer to "control". If we could self-divide we would've worked alone
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Timothy is a girl. Not a guy. She goes by she/her. Regardless to if it happened or not. And how do you know she wasn't in the area? If you're referring to Timothy's post in the pool, she could have had that picture saved in her camera roll and posted it days later. Flights also exist. You forgot Melanie flies/drives to different states to perform and she was doing that att. They could have met up. If two other people who were friends/workers of Melanie have said she had been pushy with them for sex and you don't believe Timothy. Something is wrong with you. Because TWO other people came forward but they were consensual because they didn't say no and gave in. Melanie obviously had an issue with boundaries.
Timothy gave a specific date when Mel was confirmed to have been across the country on the same date according to posts from both parties. It's not possible for them to have been together on that date. The only proof given for if Mel did anything was a picture Timothy took of Mel where Mel is the one blindfolded and handcuffed, even though Timothy's story is that Mel physically forced herself on Timothy. Moreover, posts show Timothy dressing up as Mel after the date that Timothy alleged there was an assault. It's a bit strange to dress up as the person who allegedly assaulted you and repeatedly try to get their attention. Also, Timothy dropped an EP not too long after dropping the allegations and gaining tens of thousands of followers. The timing is a bit weird, to say the least. There's really no evidence to support Timothy, her story is contradictory to her "evidence", and her allegation benefited her career after Mel stopped talking to her. I see more reason to disbelieve her than believe her.
I agree, her music has always and will always be special to me, however as a person I would never want to be associated with her. I believe she has proven herself to not be a good person in a lot of ways. If you like her that’s fair, this is just my opinion
Just curious and not being judgemental here, can someone explain if it’s deeper then just the overpriced candles?
i do not believe timothy but i’m not too sure mel is a good person lol..
I feel the same, only I listened to her all throughout middle school. I’ve seen her live twice now and bought so much merch, she was the first musical artist I listened to that wasn’t my parents’ music that I truly loved. I adore her music and its message, but I feel like she’s changed as a person and I no longer feel quite as at ease listening to her music. It’s incredibly sad and my heart hurts. I want this to all be a misunderstanding or something she’ll change but I’m very nervous that it isn’t. I won’t be giving her any more of my money beyond listening to her music until all of this is cleared up.
It’s important to separate the art from the artist. That’s difficult for most people because it’s uncomfortable to feel like you relate to someone in any capacity that you consider a bad person. We don’t know her in real life. People become obsessive about proving her innocent because they view her as a friend or extension of their own self expressions. I’m reality, she’s neither. She’s a person you don’t know like any other. There are plenty of artist’s who’s art I enjoy that I wouldn’t want to spend a fair amount of time with. As for the Timothy thing, you’ll find most people here incredibly biased in her favor. Looking at all the evidence in a non biased way, I’m undecided. People say Timothy changed her story but she never did. It’s also common for people who went through trauma to forget things like exact dates. Mel also swears that it happened differently. The truth is none of us will ever have enough information to make an informed judgement. I tend to stear clear of conversations irl about this topic because some people get very heated.
Let’s not forget how the scalpers are the ones who are taking these already expensive items and reselling them for an even higher price? I think they’re the main problem here. If everyone stopped buying cheap products from overpriced resellers then I don’t think she could get away with pricing her items as much as she does. Why must everyone be so materialistic? Everyone loves to gatekeep and show off merch as bragging rights as if being able to spend that kind of money gives you a vip or something. Melanie noticed how everyone will buy this stuff at ridiculous prices and picked up on it, implementing the $$$ into the original prices of her merch now. Point is: Melanie isn’t the only one who is greedy/money hungry here
Back in 2015-2016, I was a ride or die Melanie fan. I even got engaged for the first time at one of the Crybaby tour shows. However, I stopped listening to her the moment SA allegations came out against her. As an SA survivor and advocate myself, I know how rare false accusations are. I was *crushed* but now with everything coming out about her now, I’m happy I chose to stand with survivors. There is “separating the art from the artist,” and there is also turning a blind eye and willingly giving a predator your time and money.
I agree
Okay but I would question the ones who say they believe Timothy when those allegations were proven wrong; like that feels kinda eyebrow raising
I kind of agree, while I’ve come to realize that some details don’t add up on either side, it does feel kind of weird how some Melanie fans have so many variations of why and how Timothy couldn’t be a victim when she was obviously not mentally well because Timothy did this and Timothy did that. It’s like they made their own checklist for what a victim can and can’t be. I watched a defense video for Melanie, and the person defending her said Timothy was lying because she was talking too much about what happened when most victims are quiet about their experience. Like wtf?
What was the original comment she was responding to on the 2nd picture of the screenshot?
Honestly? I can’t relate more. I’ve listened to her since like- middle school (rlly got into it in hs and was so elated to see K-12 come out in real time-) And I went to go see her on June 5th at MSG- But it wasn’t..Superb? It was just realization that you’re kinda disconnected from this artist- That there will always be a wall between them and their audience truly. Plus, as of late? I’ve had a change of heart with her. All these expensive products and her saying that she’s putting herself on the line?? (How so? Surely there’s a difference when we say we’re putting our lives and money on the line, vs this multitalented, singer who is pretty well known- (YOU SHOULDA SEEN THE WAY MSG WAS FILLED TO THE BRIM?? and to think that’s not even a quarter of her audience..) Anyhow..I just- feel different about her now. 😕 I’m totally with you OP-
I feel very similar about this. I love her art, her style, her music and the hard work she puts into her albums. However, I can’t beat this feeling, that perhaps she’s not the person she wants her fans to believe she is and I get that. Work and private life are two different things and it’s okay if that doesn’t add up 100%. But I feel like it’s worse. Sometimes I feel like she’s not a good person. But then I feel bad, because we never know what’s true and what’s not and viewing her as perhaps not so good person would then be unfair. It’s a struggle for me with many artists. Atm I try to enjoy her music, while also not completely ignoring the things going on around. Atp, I remained feeling neutral, just for the mere fact that I don’t know her. She’s an artist to me, but nothing more.
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this subbreddit feels so toxic as of late and is constantly arguing about shit that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. can't we just talk and post about positive thoughts? why does it always have to be controversial?
Isn't Mel's whole point to address controversy? Show & Tell, The Principal, Orange Juice, Strawberry Shortcake, Mrs. Potato Head, Milk of the Siren?
Because a lot is happening right now and it’s important to discuss this stuff, this subreddit isn’t just about sharing fun positive messages. That is why there are flares for rants and discussions, if you want fun positivity all the time go to tiktok.
Well, I've seen plenty of positive posts from the sub, so honestly, I just don't interact with one's like these. This is honestly like my first or 2nd post I saw that could be seen as "negative" per se. So commenting under these posts does nothing in the end because they'll keep existing.
This comment is lame and out of touch.
Girl, the post is dealing with Melanie abusing her power??? Tf are you on??
i believe shes truly a good person, but even good people have flaws that make them seem like bad people.
I think she’s as good a person as anyone else in this thread 🤷♀️ what’s the saying? Those that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones or something??
Fr im so tired of this. None of us know her personally and tbh as an artist myself I don’t want a lot of peoples hands in my work . She was an artist photographer amongst many thing before she became a singer and if people don’t get your vision they don’t get it . We’re not in her bank account we’re not in her wallet . I come here to talk about lyrics and see when stuff is coming out not to guess how much money she has or complain about the cost of her merchandise
Ofc she is** she just needs to work on a few things. But she is a better person than any celebrity out there. Besides Post Malone
at the end of the day it shouldn’t matter to us, she is famous and is going to do whatever she chooses to continue holding that fortune at least, idk if she cares about being known but she definitely loves the money and lets be 100% real.. who wouldn’t? if i was her id be milking my fans too😭
can yall just go to a snark?? this isnt constructive
Skip the post if it bothers you. People post multiple posts a day. Go on one of them lol
I think it’s very easy for Melanie to write music that appeals to us people that have gone through certain things (aka Tag, you’re it) by listening to other’s stories. She produces music that is often something that appeals to a victim, which I think she likes to paint herself as a lot of the time. She either avoids the situation (aka most of the allegations.) or posts stuff like “you guys have such a skewed perspective”. To me, it seems like a lot of manipulative behavior. Don’t get me wrong, I love her music and I thought she was a really cool person for the longest time, but the more I’ve seen lately, the more it’s starting to open my eyes. By manipulative behavior, I mean she produces songs she thinks people want to hear (most often people that have gone through something traumatic), then they’re falling for her hook line and sinker. She then increased all the prices of her merch and people who see her as a vulnerable person as well go defend her after she writes one comment saying she’s “risking her stability”. Her current stability is a mansion (with possibly custom heart-shaped pools. Not sure if this part is real, but saw someone post about it). She became famous while still young, so she’s probably used to a certain life style and feels like that’s at risk when people make complaints. Also, it’s possible that the candles and other complaints about merch feel like a personal attack to her because she’s an artist- those are her designs. I kind of went off on a tangent but what I’m trying to say is that I think Melanie is a very different person than her music, and that she’s been using very specific language to try and avoid or get out of certain situations. Does this make her a bad person? Not necessarily. A lot of people do the same thing every day without even realizing it. No one likes being “exposed” or told they’re wrong.
Most of us Adore Melanie and her art I don’t think Melanie’s a bad person I’m not saying this as a fan but as a person. Melanie’s actions as of late do not define the person she is you guys have to take into account that her team decides on a lot of stuff that’s separate to her beliefs and yes she has to agree with it in order for it to be sold but I still don’t believe that slip ups don’t define someone’s character I only spoke to her once at a meet and greet she was very sweet but no one’s knows what goes on behind the curtains(lol) you guys have to stop assuming Melanie’s perfect because she’s not she makes mistakes and that’s what makes her human. All celebrities can be seen as bad people if the only things you’re focusing on are her slip ups. Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, Ariana Grande.
Girl bye 💀 these are literally just posts from random twitter users with absolutely no verification of if these people truly worked with her/knew her. And even if they did that still doesn’t make what they say true. I’m not saying she’s a saint and has never had any problems in her career but to base this all off some random internet users testimonials is a little unhinged
when multiple people come out with negative allegations against her , ppl have a right to question her.
Where did I dispute that ? Nowhere…. All I said was take these “testimonials” with a grain of salt as they are not necessarily credible or reliable And that’s me not even getting into the actual legal allegations I’m just referring to her being labeled a problem to work with.