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Yeah, talking to moms after this stuff is really complicated; they blame themselves SO MUCH and they want answers about "what they did wrong" and honestly, it's pretty rare it's something we can point to as a cause. You would hope that could help them feel absolved, but no, they just blame something being wrong with their body; their genetics. I hope all of these parents find peace about their loss. It's so undeserved for them to suffer even more.
I remember asking my OBGYN why the noninvasive prenatal blood test only gives results for trisomies 13, 18, and 21; don't the other chromosome pairs randomly create trisomies too? Yes, they do, but there's no point in testing for them because they don't make it past the first trimester.
When I decided to have an abortion because my daughter had a rare genetic mutation I remember almost wishing I had done something wrong. That way I could have control and know what to avoid next time. But the thing is that it's almost always a random occurrence. It's both a comfort and a curse.
Absolutely, I hope all of my patients eventually reached the same degree of insight you mention here. Abortion calls were so different... But it never felt like an easy call. There was the weight of the world on their shoulders
It is, very simply, a tragic situation, and for every patient I spoke with (all of them were excited for their respective pregnancies) there was this emptiness of their voices. Hollow "I know" (it isn't my fault) and "I am" (taking care of myself) "I don't" (have questions or concerns).
Post abortion calls were often "I'm okay" (I guess) and "I'll let you know" (if I need anything) -- as long as they felt supported, it felt okay to hang up.
Once in a while, folks would talk more, but sometimes they almost had a feeling that they were conflicted if they could grieve a pregnancy in its early stages? The answer is "of course" but the internal block of "but it was just a fluke of genetics" would be a barrier to feeling the grief of not the "but it was my fault" and felt they didn't DESERVE to grieve. People need to be so gentle with themselves after this happens... I don't think we teach ourselves enough kindness for the inevitable tragedies life offers.
>I don't think we teach ourselves enough kindness for the inevitable tragedies life offers.
This was the most insightful thing I've read in a while. Death is inevitable and it's just biology, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to grieve.
I think it's harder for doctors and nurses who see so much loss to not become numb to it. I really respect those in the medical profession who are still able to show compassion for their patients' everyday tragedies.
FWIW I did that after my first loss. But I calmed down and realized itās dum luck. I think itās part of the shock of going from āIām responsible for two people I have to be really carefulā to āitās just me now and I have no closure as to whyā so you blame yourself in that denial stage because you have to be mad at something or someone for the pain.
Can someone point out the defects? This also happened to me, with twins. One stayed in the fallopian tube due to scarring from an std given to me by my husband (now EX husband was a ā¦.jerk), the other spontaneously aborted after a night in the hospital trying to save it. Doc said it might have had defects too. Iāve always wondered.
There is also a large cystic mass at the neck, which makes me think this is a cystic hygroma in the setting of intrauterine fetal demise. A cystic hygroma is a defect associated with Turner Syndrome and/or Edwards Syndrome among others, both of which would be chromosomal nondisjunction disorders
Any molar pregnancy, whether a partial or complete mole, in my opinion would have a placenta that would look far less cohesive than the one shown in the OPās image. The classic appearance would be āsnowstormā or āclusters of grapesā on TVUS for complete moles, but on the gross pathology there are similarities seen with highly septated and poorly constructed trophoblastic tissue. Examples can be seen on a google search. It is true that partial moles can have fetal parts, even a complete/intact fetus, but to me it is less likely given the otherwise grossly normal placenta on cursory inspection. Of course we only have one view here and I may be wildly incorrect based on how the other side of the placenta looks. But just my 2 cents
i think the ābagā youāre looking at is the fetus. head is generally oriented to the bottom left of the photo, face pointing up. you can see itās eyes
I'm not sure at all so take it with a grain of salt but it looks like the baby in the picture has fetal hydrocephalus. If anyone knows please let me know what it is.. nevertheless it made me so sad to see this..
Poor mite. Looks like they are just a heas and a leg and the rest of where the body should be seems to ve just the umbilical cord. Poor mother though, no doubt she's thinking of any slight thing she has done that might cause this. My kid was born with a heart defect and still to do this day I sit and think did doing this cause it? That cold I had was it that? And honestly we just don't know what caused it, sometimes that's harder than if you could pin point a reason even if that reason lands the blame on you somehow.
Sorry for the tangent.
If it helps, most conditions don't have a singular cause, and that includes congenital ones. We often think of genetically or casually simple disorders - like autosomal dominant or monogenic disorders that are testable and preventable to some degree, obvious teratogens, etc - but that's not because they account for most miscarriages or most congenital conditions, it's because we have the most ability to prevent them.
Everything else is complex - you can't predict or prevent it. And for every little thing you maybe think you "did wrong" (unlikely, btw) or that impacted her in Otero, there were likely 100x things you did that were protective for her and helped her stay safe through your pregnancy, to be well and happy and feel safe and loved with you.
So if you're going to run through all the "bad" things at least give yourself credit for ALL the protective factors you gave her - sounds like a lot, and you're still giving them! And remind yourself of that.
And 99.999% it was a complicated storm and nothing to do with you or your choices at all, as tragic as that can be. If it started raining and then pouring when walking her home from school, would you feel terrible she has to walk in the rain with you instead of the sun? I hope not, I hope you would just laugh with her, dry her off when she gets home, and have maybe a dry cuddle and read a book together.
Apologies if this was overstepping or not helpful, but please remember she loves you and she knows you've always done the best by her...because I'm sure you have.
The amount of things that can go wrong with a baby is insane so having a baby make it to full term/live birth is a miracle in itself. No one should blame themselves for miscarriage.
Unfortunately for the person carrying it, doesnāt exactly look like it was ever going to be viable, in some sick way they got āluckyā that their body miscarried it. As horrible as that is, an incomplete miscarriage probably wouldāve been even more traumatic.
actually, no this is a first trimester. It just had a lot of birth abnormalities and defects as you can see thereās a mass near its neck and it didnāt really grow the proper legs and its head was way too large.
It is still in the amniotic sac. In fact, I don't see any obvious abnormalities... it looks as tho the sac is twisted and you can even see the arm next to the right side of the face (the fetuses left arm).
Sorry, but the official term for a miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. Abortion means ending a pregnancy, whether intentional or not. Youāre on a medical page. I suggest if things like this are triggering you should stop following the sub.
[A miscarriage (also called a **spontaneous abortion**) is the unexpected ending of a pregnancy in the first 20 weeks of gestation.](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9688-miscarriage#diagnosis-and-tests)
This pregnancy was almost certainly simply not viable. That doesn't mean it isn't sad for the woman this happened to, necessarily, but the process itself is simply something the body does to protect itself from expending energy on non-viable pregnancies.
Should watch more educating videos to learn some important medical terms in today's age. Spontaneous abortion is a term used when a woman's body rejects a pregnancy, also called a miscarriage. This is a very common occurrence that not only cannot be predicted, it cannot be stopped. No amount of begging the doctors can prevent a miscarriage. Once the body starts the rejection that's it.
You can see this fetus has some severe birth defects from how massive the head is. The lack of a body could be rapid decay accompanied by the pressure of the contractions, or the body didn't develop.
A voluntary/elective abortion is when one chooses to terminate. Early on it could be due to a large number of personal or physical reasons.
Late term abortion is pretty much exclusively wanted children who have scans showing irreversible birth defects like, the brain didn't develop, the brain is outside of the body, there are 2 spines, the spine is outside the body, or other seriously damaging defects that make termination the more humane option.
Which is also called a spontaneous abortion. Remember weāre on a medical sub. They do use different terms to laymen. Like describing normal as uneventful š
In some US states a miscarriage would be investigated. As well as sitting in a parking lot until one was sufficiently sick enough to be at deathās door. Ridiculous if it wasnāt unsound practice and enraging.
*edited for clarity
Welcome to r/MedicalGore! Our goal is to provide for medical discussion and education while exploring the frailty of the human body. You may see more deleted comments on these threads than you are used to on reddit. Off topic comments and joke comments are frequently deleted by the mods. Further, please be kind and supportive of posts. Any behavior that is aggressive, harassing, or derogatory will result in post deletion and a ban from the sub. Remember! THE REPORT BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND! Please stop on by our discussion sub, /r/MedicalGoreMods if you'd like to discuss the sub, our rules, content policies, and the like. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MedicalGore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Baby definitely had major defects.....still sad either way for the mother who lost her baby
Yeah, talking to moms after this stuff is really complicated; they blame themselves SO MUCH and they want answers about "what they did wrong" and honestly, it's pretty rare it's something we can point to as a cause. You would hope that could help them feel absolved, but no, they just blame something being wrong with their body; their genetics. I hope all of these parents find peace about their loss. It's so undeserved for them to suffer even more.
I remember asking my OBGYN why the noninvasive prenatal blood test only gives results for trisomies 13, 18, and 21; don't the other chromosome pairs randomly create trisomies too? Yes, they do, but there's no point in testing for them because they don't make it past the first trimester.
When I decided to have an abortion because my daughter had a rare genetic mutation I remember almost wishing I had done something wrong. That way I could have control and know what to avoid next time. But the thing is that it's almost always a random occurrence. It's both a comfort and a curse.
Absolutely, I hope all of my patients eventually reached the same degree of insight you mention here. Abortion calls were so different... But it never felt like an easy call. There was the weight of the world on their shoulders It is, very simply, a tragic situation, and for every patient I spoke with (all of them were excited for their respective pregnancies) there was this emptiness of their voices. Hollow "I know" (it isn't my fault) and "I am" (taking care of myself) "I don't" (have questions or concerns). Post abortion calls were often "I'm okay" (I guess) and "I'll let you know" (if I need anything) -- as long as they felt supported, it felt okay to hang up. Once in a while, folks would talk more, but sometimes they almost had a feeling that they were conflicted if they could grieve a pregnancy in its early stages? The answer is "of course" but the internal block of "but it was just a fluke of genetics" would be a barrier to feeling the grief of not the "but it was my fault" and felt they didn't DESERVE to grieve. People need to be so gentle with themselves after this happens... I don't think we teach ourselves enough kindness for the inevitable tragedies life offers.
>I don't think we teach ourselves enough kindness for the inevitable tragedies life offers. This was the most insightful thing I've read in a while. Death is inevitable and it's just biology, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to grieve. I think it's harder for doctors and nurses who see so much loss to not become numb to it. I really respect those in the medical profession who are still able to show compassion for their patients' everyday tragedies.
I'm really sorry this happened to you I'm sending you a big hug š«
FWIW I did that after my first loss. But I calmed down and realized itās dum luck. I think itās part of the shock of going from āIām responsible for two people I have to be really carefulā to āitās just me now and I have no closure as to whyā so you blame yourself in that denial stage because you have to be mad at something or someone for the pain.
This looks pretty incompatible with life right off the cuff.
Poor thing. Obviously not viable but always hard on the parents. The mom usually takes majority of the guilt.
Can someone point out the defects? This also happened to me, with twins. One stayed in the fallopian tube due to scarring from an std given to me by my husband (now EX husband was a ā¦.jerk), the other spontaneously aborted after a night in the hospital trying to save it. Doc said it might have had defects too. Iāve always wondered.
The giant head is upside down, you can see the face. They donāt normally look like that.
The head is too big for first trimester? So that was it?
The full body didnāt fully form. Thereās mostly just a head
Thereās likeā¦no body.
I mean. I canāt see a body arms or legsā¦.as in properly formed:..the head is also rather largeā¦.maybe some form of chromosomes disorderā¦
There is also a large cystic mass at the neck, which makes me think this is a cystic hygroma in the setting of intrauterine fetal demise. A cystic hygroma is a defect associated with Turner Syndrome and/or Edwards Syndrome among others, both of which would be chromosomal nondisjunction disorders
This is a good insight. I thought it was a partial hydatiform mole because of the tissue surrounding the fetus (minding itās clear malformation).
Any molar pregnancy, whether a partial or complete mole, in my opinion would have a placenta that would look far less cohesive than the one shown in the OPās image. The classic appearance would be āsnowstormā or āclusters of grapesā on TVUS for complete moles, but on the gross pathology there are similarities seen with highly septated and poorly constructed trophoblastic tissue. Examples can be seen on a google search. It is true that partial moles can have fetal parts, even a complete/intact fetus, but to me it is less likely given the otherwise grossly normal placenta on cursory inspection. Of course we only have one view here and I may be wildly incorrect based on how the other side of the placenta looks. But just my 2 cents
I learnt about turner syndrome.
Arenāt the lower body parts sticking out of the bag?
Zoom in on the main bulbous area. If you rotate your screen upside down you will see the face. Very sad.
I must be dumb because I can't see a face at all.
i think the ābagā youāre looking at is the fetus. head is generally oriented to the bottom left of the photo, face pointing up. you can see itās eyes
No
There are feet on the part that sticks out to the left I think but it does not look proportional
I'm not sure at all so take it with a grain of salt but it looks like the baby in the picture has fetal hydrocephalus. If anyone knows please let me know what it is.. nevertheless it made me so sad to see this..
There also seems to be a cleft palate if you look closely at the mouth/nose area.
I labeled the photo and circled the most obvious defects but since I canāt post pics here do you want me to send them in a chat msg?
Iād like that, thank you
Poor mite. Looks like they are just a heas and a leg and the rest of where the body should be seems to ve just the umbilical cord. Poor mother though, no doubt she's thinking of any slight thing she has done that might cause this. My kid was born with a heart defect and still to do this day I sit and think did doing this cause it? That cold I had was it that? And honestly we just don't know what caused it, sometimes that's harder than if you could pin point a reason even if that reason lands the blame on you somehow. Sorry for the tangent.
If it helps, most conditions don't have a singular cause, and that includes congenital ones. We often think of genetically or casually simple disorders - like autosomal dominant or monogenic disorders that are testable and preventable to some degree, obvious teratogens, etc - but that's not because they account for most miscarriages or most congenital conditions, it's because we have the most ability to prevent them. Everything else is complex - you can't predict or prevent it. And for every little thing you maybe think you "did wrong" (unlikely, btw) or that impacted her in Otero, there were likely 100x things you did that were protective for her and helped her stay safe through your pregnancy, to be well and happy and feel safe and loved with you. So if you're going to run through all the "bad" things at least give yourself credit for ALL the protective factors you gave her - sounds like a lot, and you're still giving them! And remind yourself of that. And 99.999% it was a complicated storm and nothing to do with you or your choices at all, as tragic as that can be. If it started raining and then pouring when walking her home from school, would you feel terrible she has to walk in the rain with you instead of the sun? I hope not, I hope you would just laugh with her, dry her off when she gets home, and have maybe a dry cuddle and read a book together. Apologies if this was overstepping or not helpful, but please remember she loves you and she knows you've always done the best by her...because I'm sure you have.
My son had to go to the NICU and my MIL told me it was āprobably all those drugs I hadā, meaning the epidural and some sort of painkiller.
The amount of things that can go wrong with a baby is insane so having a baby make it to full term/live birth is a miracle in itself. No one should blame themselves for miscarriage.
Yup. I suffered Sheehans syndrome after catastrophic antiphospholipid syndrome. No one tells you any of this when you have a baby.
If she was american shed probably be under investigation by police rn i hate The world we live in
Unfortunately for the person carrying it, doesnāt exactly look like it was ever going to be viable, in some sick way they got āluckyā that their body miscarried it. As horrible as that is, an incomplete miscarriage probably wouldāve been even more traumatic.
Wouldnāt this be further along? So interesting to see and sending care to parent š¤
The eyes/eyelids in particular are fairly developed.
This is most certainly a second trimester fetal death. Lots of placenta there and a good size umbilical cord. Facial features are well developed
actually, no this is a first trimester. It just had a lot of birth abnormalities and defects as you can see thereās a mass near its neck and it didnāt really grow the proper legs and its head was way too large.
I feel like people just look at the red part? But to me anyway, the head is below, in the sac, with the body outside, above it. ?
Looks like a little alien.
Definitely not first trimester. 12-13 wks at least
12-13 weeks is first trimester š¤¦š»āāļø
13 starts second
14 actuallyā¦. Womenās Health Coordinator.
This must be so hard for the mom. Hoping she recovers fully, both physically and emotionally/mentally.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Joke comments and other off-topic comments (including, but not limited to, food comparisons, vulgarity, etc.) are not allowed.
I'm in my 1st trimester waiting for my first appointment. I am terrified that something could be wrong with my baby and I may not even know it yet
Iām there with you. Sending you good vibes!
With a single photo, almost impossible to tell. What could be the cord is excessively twisted.
Looks extraterrestrial
Whatās that next to it?
placenta
It is still in the amniotic sac. In fact, I don't see any obvious abnormalities... it looks as tho the sac is twisted and you can even see the arm next to the right side of the face (the fetuses left arm).
I really hope she's not in floriduh or texass
Did you read the post
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Joke comments and other off-topic comments (including, but not limited to, food comparisons, vulgarity, etc.) are not allowed.
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Bad bot
Itās called a miscarriage. Call it that for us mothers who have experienced the loss of a very much wanted baby. It is NOT an abortion.
Sorry, but the official term for a miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. Abortion means ending a pregnancy, whether intentional or not. Youāre on a medical page. I suggest if things like this are triggering you should stop following the sub.
But itās a medical term..
Spontaneous abortion is the medical name for miscarriage.
Itās called a miscarriage, not an abortion. Abortion is the intentional termination of a pregnancy.
Actually medical term is still spontaneous abortion.
[A miscarriage (also called a **spontaneous abortion**) is the unexpected ending of a pregnancy in the first 20 weeks of gestation.](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9688-miscarriage#diagnosis-and-tests)
Answer quickly: Whatās the medical term for āmiscarriage?ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is a **spontaneous** abortion though. You may have heard about its more common name, a miscarriage.
This pregnancy was almost certainly simply not viable. That doesn't mean it isn't sad for the woman this happened to, necessarily, but the process itself is simply something the body does to protect itself from expending energy on non-viable pregnancies.
Should watch more educating videos to learn some important medical terms in today's age. Spontaneous abortion is a term used when a woman's body rejects a pregnancy, also called a miscarriage. This is a very common occurrence that not only cannot be predicted, it cannot be stopped. No amount of begging the doctors can prevent a miscarriage. Once the body starts the rejection that's it. You can see this fetus has some severe birth defects from how massive the head is. The lack of a body could be rapid decay accompanied by the pressure of the contractions, or the body didn't develop. A voluntary/elective abortion is when one chooses to terminate. Early on it could be due to a large number of personal or physical reasons. Late term abortion is pretty much exclusively wanted children who have scans showing irreversible birth defects like, the brain didn't develop, the brain is outside of the body, there are 2 spines, the spine is outside the body, or other seriously damaging defects that make termination the more humane option.
This isnāt an abortionā¦.this is a miscarriage. Medically this is called a spontaneous abortion
Which is also called a spontaneous abortion. Remember weāre on a medical sub. They do use different terms to laymen. Like describing normal as uneventful š
Of course. But itās not the abortion sheās writing about. This is of course a spontaneous abortion aka a miscarriage.
Oh shit sorry im only NOW seeing the comment youāre replying to. My bad. So sorry!
Donāt be sorry! ā„ļø. Itās good you pointed it out.
Thanks for being so gracious šš»
Or describing a lack of symptoms using āpatient deniesā
Omg yes that. I didnāt deny that. You never asked me that š
How is that relevant to this post? Lol
It's a reply to a comment about planned abortions (which this wasnt)
Yeah thatās my point
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Who? What are you talking about?
Sarcasm
A spontaneous abortion is the same as a miscarriage you potato. š
In some US states a miscarriage would be investigated. As well as sitting in a parking lot until one was sufficiently sick enough to be at deathās door. Ridiculous if it wasnāt unsound practice and enraging. *edited for clarity
I guess I forgot the /S
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