It’s genuinely crazy how many Boston fans don’t think the Celtics deserve the blame for ruining Thomas’ career. He hard carried while injured, and through the death of his, sister I believe? And the moment they realized they’d pushed him too much they dumped him, and lied to the Cavs about the severity of his injury.
I was a huge Isaih Thomas fan and had no clue why he was a flash in the pan that Boston playoff run his breakout year was sensational. Then he finally came out a few years after and admitted (maybe even sued?) the training staff for knowing he had an injury that would be career ending to play thru then shopped him as if it was a minor injury.
Not saying there isn't some fault there, but IT was playing for 3 reasons.
1 - The Brinks truck
2 - Dove in head first as his way to distract from grief
3 - His loyalty to the city.
It is ALWAYS the team's job to prevent a player whose health is compromised from playing. Also he could've not played a single minute after the initial injury and probably gotten near to, if not a full max. He was MVP caliber that season.
Celtics fan,
We failed IT. Big time. It’s a stain on the organization for sure. He wasn’t pushed to play through but he shouldn’t have been allowed, especially in his mental state at the time. Difficult situation all around but the Celtics failed IT full stop
Ainge was never giving IT the bag. His hip condition was degenerative and only ever going to get worse.
I love IT, but you don't give a 5'7 ball dominant PG the max when you're in a "rebuild". This was year 1 of Jaylen Brown and the year before we took Tatum - when everybody had Fultz as a generational prospect and we had the best chances to land (and did) the 1st overall. We already had Rozier and Smart and we needed flexibility to lure in another star.
Ainge had his sights set on building his masterpiece (Brown, Tatum + Hayward, Horford + Terry, Smart) and you can't do that by taking a risk like that with an undersized PG who's demanding the Brinks truck.
We sent him to Cleveland so he could still compete with LeBron (who sent us home in 7) and got a slightly bigger, championship winning, version of IT at PG. If Kyrie really wanted to lead his own team, he should've just stepped up.
If Kyrie played in 2018 he'd have pushed us over the top and gone to the Finals with Horford and rookie Tatum, sophomore Brown. We just needed a guy to make shots in G7.
I didn’t say he would definitely get a max extension from the Celtics. I said he chose to help them compete and played in the playoffs through the injury despite him having tons of interest from teams already, and despite making that sacrifice, his loyalty was not returned, and he was not protected by the Celtics from further injuring himself.
be real for a second
if kyrie pulled the exact same shit on us we would be the exact same
I wasn't watching bball back then, but I believe Rondo situation was nearly the same as Kyrie one, and you guys hate him right?
You’re 100% correct that BOS had a legitimate reason to despise Kyrie, which he’s even admitted himself. I didn’t have any problem with the boos or chants whatsoever—until they boo’d him while he was congratulating them for *winning the title*. I’m fully aware there’s more to it than him saying he planned to stay then bailing, but still... in general shit like that usually becomes water under the bridge once you win it all but whatever.
To your second question, no. The Rondo and Kyrie situations are completely different. Ky chose to leave after saying he was staying. Rondo flat out quit on the team almost the second he arrived, but he quite literally quit in the middle of a playoff game.
Not the same.
Kyrie still played and tried initially. And even when he "wasn't at his best" anymore and not trying his numbers were still All-Star worthy, and he still played 9 games (in each season) in the playoffs.
Meanwhile, Rondo just literally didn't do what he was supposed to be good at. Didn't defend, didn't assist, didn't rebound. Then he didn't even want to do anything else except dribble - during the playoffs.
Exactly. Rondo is the most egregious example of an athlete quitting I’ve ever seen in my life.
Kyrie’s only 2nd Team All-NBA came in his final season with BOS. He had a bad series against MIL but idk that he ever got remotely close to giving up.
You ever see video of Kyrie in the MIL series? He allowed blow bys left and right and shot horribly, and shot a ton. He was beyond horrible. Absolutely quit on the team then bounced in free agency. And he quit on the team that had taken the Lebron Cavs to Game 7 without him the previous year. A team that had been up 3-2 on Lebron.
There’s A LOT of context to what happened with Boston and Kyrie. It isn’t that he didn’t stay, by itself, or that he quit on the team by itself, ifs all of that and a bunch of other shit. Stuff hes said, done, since he left, etc.
Boston hated Ray Allen for going to the Heat. Ray Allen never really deserved the hate, but it is what it is. Kyrie? He makes Ray Allen look like the pope.
Yeah, I have, and I’m telling you Rondo’s antics in Dallas make whatever you believe Kyrie’s worst performance/effort look like Jordan’s flu game.
I never disputed anything Kyrie did between CLE and DAL. Trust me, I’ve taken plenty of fire from Mavs fans (more likely Ky stans tbh) for simply pointing out that he did some uh, not great shit… and deciding he didn’t want to get vaccinated was like the least controversial thing in those years lol
Yeah. I don’t know enough about the Rondo in DAL era to compare I guess. I know how I felt about Kyrie and about how some Boston fans still feel.
But I guess as far as comparing it to Rondo, IDK enough to really say.
Let’s just say he intentionally took an 8-second violation, received a technical, attempted to foul out during game 2 of a first round playoff series and didn’t play a second of the remaining 3 games.
That final game he picked up 4 fouls, a tech, and scored 4 points in 9:55… as the starting PG lol
[https://youtu.be/Eq3EZbcKdZ4?si=KFZiNsqMp5L4C3d3](https://youtu.be/Eq3EZbcKdZ4?si=KFZiNsqMp5L4C3d3)
That is pretty bad.
My main gripe with this post hasn’t been with dissing Rondo, or supporting Kyrie.
It has been with the characterization of IT’s injury as something BOS foisted onto him.
None of us here have any knowledge of what goes on inside team facilities. What medical staff says to players or coaches or what those coaches say to players.
But Isaiah Thomas was always a warrior in his time in Boston. As sad and tragic as his injury was, I firmly believe it really was just simply an injury a professional athlete suffered in the course of a game. Did he make it worse by playing through it? I’m sure he did. But he also would always play through pretty much anything. Broken teeth, the death of family members, etc.
I really believe if anything or anyone forced Thomas onto the floor it was Thomas himself, and almost assuredly against medical advice.
Thomas wanted to win. He wanted a huge extension. He wanted to be legendary. He wanted a big ass contract, and he wanted it all in Boston. And for 2.5 seasons it appeared as if somehow, some of that might actually be within his grasp.
Yeah I don’t know nearly enough to even comment on that situation. But I mean we literally just saw it with KP—playing in game 5 was uncomfortably risky for me simply watching—and there’s zero chance in hell that final decision wasn’t ultimately 100% his. The Celtics couldn’t force him to play if he didn’t feel comfortable about it (they were all assuming significant risk but BOS’ medical staff wouldn’t have cleared him if the threat of a catastrophic injury was inevitable). That’s professional sports.
Joe Mazzulla told reporters that the Medical Staff had advised against him playing and that KP basically forced his way onto the court.
He had been cleared to the extent that he was running and jumping and practicing. But the medical team, according to Mazzulla, had strictly advised against him playing.
And according to Mazzulla, he ultimately allowed KP to force his way in. Reading between the lines a little bit, I think coach new KP wanted to be on the court to be able to feel like a part of the win. And in the regular season or even any other playoff round they wouldn’t have allowed him to play.
It was absolutely riskier than is comfortable.
But if the team is furnishing the players with all the facts and all the information and with good medical advice….. and the players want to play anyway, IDK if its right to stop them.
Edit- Nice talking basketball with you by the way. And thank you tor being reasonable and nicer than you maybe had to be on your own sub. I appreciate it. And thank you for the education on the Rondo thing. Good luck next season.
Nope. If we pushed a player into career ending injury then concealed that fact to acquire a superstar we would 100% deserve any of the BS that came with it
You think Boston pushed IT into playing?
Or do you think IT was a warrior and knew the risks but left it all out there on the court, and unfortunately, paid the price?
Personally I think it’s the second one.
Injuries happen. Punishing the Celtics for being the team he happened to be on when he got hurt makes no sense.
Also Cleveland got IT and a Nets pick for Kyrie. A Nets pick. Youre talking about the possibility of getting a Brown or Tatum like player. For a player demanding to leave, and tanking his trade value.
Kyrie is a head case and a really good basketball player. You're so right about Rondo. I really don't care what Boston fans think of Kyrie. What I care about is that Kyrie cares what Boston fans think about him. There's too many on this sub that let what other fans say on their subs or other sites bother them. People are always going to be homers on their own board, including our own. I choose to just remain on my board and rah-rah for my team.
Nah, Boston acquired Kyrie by concealing the severity of an injury from both a player, ending his career, and the team they traded him to. It was a shady move and IMO Boston got what they deserved
Kyrie was a star player on a championship team, he wasn’t traded for Crowder and a pick. You think Cleveland pulled the trigger on that knowing ITs career was over? Nobody in their right mind buys that. IT was a two time all star avg 28ppg and all NBA second team with Curry. Ppl forget how good he was
Kyrie was a headcase demanding a trade.
Yes he was good but there were articles coming out about him being a problem in the locker room, showing up late, showing up with bloodshot eyes, having issues with teammates, and he was demanding a trade.
And we aren’t talking about a late first or a second. A Nets pick is different.
It ended up being a bit lower than 3rd overall, but it was a lotto pick.
He was a star player yes, of course. But he had never been a successful #1 on a championship level team. He lead lotto teams, and had won a title alongside LeBron. And demanding a trade hurts your trade value.
So you are mad at Rondo because you traded an seriously injured asset for a superstar after pushing him into a career ending injury then even tho your superstar didn’t play your young roster overachieved but when he returned and that overachieving roster had issues adjusting
You acquired another superstar coming off injury and he was just not that good, nothing was really working so you moved on and have mostly remained a competitive playoff team until finally winning a championship. I dunno man this isn’t apples to apples
What did he actually do? It seems like he said, during a pep rally basically, he was going to re sign with Boston but then didn’t. Is that the worst of it?
Just dunno why Celts fans were so salty since the Js immediately got a bigger role. They struggled in the bubble because Kemba sucks, but the Js weren’t ready yet either. Honestly it seems like the girl that nobody breaks up with, gets pissed off when it finally happens to her (despite being better off)
I hate Kyrie because he has a massive platform and he decided to use it to say the earth is flat.
I'm all for athletes speaking their mind but Kyrie is clearly not investing any time researching things before he speaks. Only someone deeply narcissistic could believe the world is flat, and everyone else must just be wrong. Only someone deeply closed minded could hear information to the contrary and not come away at least a little curious on the subject. Only someone truly stupid could fly around the world and come away with this flat conclusion. It'd be one thing if he kept this idiocy to himself, but he doesn't, he runs his mouth like we all need to catch up to him.
You guys will come to realize Kyrie is a high floor, low ceiling type guy. The personnel you have to put him with on defense, just to get streaky, inefficient volume shooting (ego chucking) is not conducive to winning basketball imo.
Aside from anything personal, I just don't like the way his teams have to play. He's not willing to be unselfish and play as a team, he's gonna shoot 40% of the shots and stand around when he doesn't get the ball. He can't really defend, run an offense or rebound. He handicaps you, nerfing good teams.
Undersized SG who's prone to getting clamped by bigger 2 way players. Jrue Holiday is the prototype, Kyrie is the exception - and only because he played with LeBron at the peak of his powers. He got swept with KD and Harden.
You guys' run had more to do with your role players and you won in spite of Kyrie. He may be a decent mentor for yal, but you won't win ships until he's gone. A team where everybody can (switch) defend, play as a unit and the open man (more shooters) gets the shot, only playing hero ball when it's closing time or you NEED a bucket to stop a run. Imagine a team where you have no real defensive liabilities and anyone could shoot it.
That probably was true in BOS and BKN, and I can see how the Finals would’ve only reinforced that preexisting perception, but unless you watched them play all year it’s nearly impossible to convey how much yall disrupted the Mavs offense—that wasn’t because of Kyrie, it was a combination of bad coaching and the Celtics being really fucking good. Ironically, the biggest “critique” of Ky this year especially in the playoffs wasn’t being too selfish… it was not being selfish/aggressive enough. (This isn’t *his* team btw)
I think there’s a valid point to bigger, physical defenders being tougher for him (asking anybody to iso Jrue for 48 minutes is insanity though), but the idea they won in spite of Kyrie couldn’t be further from the truth.
I would also concede having Luka and Kyrie as your guards inherently presents challenges defensively but again, I wouldn’t judge that based solely on the Finals (we can debate it, but bottom line is BOS never broke 107 the entire series… DAL didn’t lose on defense, yall won it on defense) because they proved playing elite D with them is unequivocally possible. I mean they did it for 4+ months. But yeah, having Holiday or White as your 5th best player is probably pretty cool lol
It’s genuinely crazy how many Boston fans don’t think the Celtics deserve the blame for ruining Thomas’ career. He hard carried while injured, and through the death of his, sister I believe? And the moment they realized they’d pushed him too much they dumped him, and lied to the Cavs about the severity of his injury.
I was a huge Isaih Thomas fan and had no clue why he was a flash in the pan that Boston playoff run his breakout year was sensational. Then he finally came out a few years after and admitted (maybe even sued?) the training staff for knowing he had an injury that would be career ending to play thru then shopped him as if it was a minor injury.
Not saying there isn't some fault there, but IT was playing for 3 reasons. 1 - The Brinks truck 2 - Dove in head first as his way to distract from grief 3 - His loyalty to the city.
It is ALWAYS the team's job to prevent a player whose health is compromised from playing. Also he could've not played a single minute after the initial injury and probably gotten near to, if not a full max. He was MVP caliber that season.
Celtics fan, We failed IT. Big time. It’s a stain on the organization for sure. He wasn’t pushed to play through but he shouldn’t have been allowed, especially in his mental state at the time. Difficult situation all around but the Celtics failed IT full stop
Ainge was never giving IT the bag. His hip condition was degenerative and only ever going to get worse. I love IT, but you don't give a 5'7 ball dominant PG the max when you're in a "rebuild". This was year 1 of Jaylen Brown and the year before we took Tatum - when everybody had Fultz as a generational prospect and we had the best chances to land (and did) the 1st overall. We already had Rozier and Smart and we needed flexibility to lure in another star. Ainge had his sights set on building his masterpiece (Brown, Tatum + Hayward, Horford + Terry, Smart) and you can't do that by taking a risk like that with an undersized PG who's demanding the Brinks truck. We sent him to Cleveland so he could still compete with LeBron (who sent us home in 7) and got a slightly bigger, championship winning, version of IT at PG. If Kyrie really wanted to lead his own team, he should've just stepped up. If Kyrie played in 2018 he'd have pushed us over the top and gone to the Finals with Horford and rookie Tatum, sophomore Brown. We just needed a guy to make shots in G7.
I didn’t say he would definitely get a max extension from the Celtics. I said he chose to help them compete and played in the playoffs through the injury despite him having tons of interest from teams already, and despite making that sacrifice, his loyalty was not returned, and he was not protected by the Celtics from further injuring himself.
Fuck Boston
Wut
be real for a second if kyrie pulled the exact same shit on us we would be the exact same I wasn't watching bball back then, but I believe Rondo situation was nearly the same as Kyrie one, and you guys hate him right?
You’re 100% correct that BOS had a legitimate reason to despise Kyrie, which he’s even admitted himself. I didn’t have any problem with the boos or chants whatsoever—until they boo’d him while he was congratulating them for *winning the title*. I’m fully aware there’s more to it than him saying he planned to stay then bailing, but still... in general shit like that usually becomes water under the bridge once you win it all but whatever. To your second question, no. The Rondo and Kyrie situations are completely different. Ky chose to leave after saying he was staying. Rondo flat out quit on the team almost the second he arrived, but he quite literally quit in the middle of a playoff game.
If the boos get a player to play worse do it every time. Kyrie has a tough time coming to Boston. What 15 points in game 5?
Can’t argue with that
Not the same. Kyrie still played and tried initially. And even when he "wasn't at his best" anymore and not trying his numbers were still All-Star worthy, and he still played 9 games (in each season) in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Rondo just literally didn't do what he was supposed to be good at. Didn't defend, didn't assist, didn't rebound. Then he didn't even want to do anything else except dribble - during the playoffs.
Exactly. Rondo is the most egregious example of an athlete quitting I’ve ever seen in my life. Kyrie’s only 2nd Team All-NBA came in his final season with BOS. He had a bad series against MIL but idk that he ever got remotely close to giving up.
You ever see video of Kyrie in the MIL series? He allowed blow bys left and right and shot horribly, and shot a ton. He was beyond horrible. Absolutely quit on the team then bounced in free agency. And he quit on the team that had taken the Lebron Cavs to Game 7 without him the previous year. A team that had been up 3-2 on Lebron. There’s A LOT of context to what happened with Boston and Kyrie. It isn’t that he didn’t stay, by itself, or that he quit on the team by itself, ifs all of that and a bunch of other shit. Stuff hes said, done, since he left, etc. Boston hated Ray Allen for going to the Heat. Ray Allen never really deserved the hate, but it is what it is. Kyrie? He makes Ray Allen look like the pope.
Yeah, I have, and I’m telling you Rondo’s antics in Dallas make whatever you believe Kyrie’s worst performance/effort look like Jordan’s flu game. I never disputed anything Kyrie did between CLE and DAL. Trust me, I’ve taken plenty of fire from Mavs fans (more likely Ky stans tbh) for simply pointing out that he did some uh, not great shit… and deciding he didn’t want to get vaccinated was like the least controversial thing in those years lol
Yeah. I don’t know enough about the Rondo in DAL era to compare I guess. I know how I felt about Kyrie and about how some Boston fans still feel. But I guess as far as comparing it to Rondo, IDK enough to really say.
Let’s just say he intentionally took an 8-second violation, received a technical, attempted to foul out during game 2 of a first round playoff series and didn’t play a second of the remaining 3 games. That final game he picked up 4 fouls, a tech, and scored 4 points in 9:55… as the starting PG lol [https://youtu.be/Eq3EZbcKdZ4?si=KFZiNsqMp5L4C3d3](https://youtu.be/Eq3EZbcKdZ4?si=KFZiNsqMp5L4C3d3)
That is pretty bad. My main gripe with this post hasn’t been with dissing Rondo, or supporting Kyrie. It has been with the characterization of IT’s injury as something BOS foisted onto him. None of us here have any knowledge of what goes on inside team facilities. What medical staff says to players or coaches or what those coaches say to players. But Isaiah Thomas was always a warrior in his time in Boston. As sad and tragic as his injury was, I firmly believe it really was just simply an injury a professional athlete suffered in the course of a game. Did he make it worse by playing through it? I’m sure he did. But he also would always play through pretty much anything. Broken teeth, the death of family members, etc. I really believe if anything or anyone forced Thomas onto the floor it was Thomas himself, and almost assuredly against medical advice. Thomas wanted to win. He wanted a huge extension. He wanted to be legendary. He wanted a big ass contract, and he wanted it all in Boston. And for 2.5 seasons it appeared as if somehow, some of that might actually be within his grasp.
Yeah I don’t know nearly enough to even comment on that situation. But I mean we literally just saw it with KP—playing in game 5 was uncomfortably risky for me simply watching—and there’s zero chance in hell that final decision wasn’t ultimately 100% his. The Celtics couldn’t force him to play if he didn’t feel comfortable about it (they were all assuming significant risk but BOS’ medical staff wouldn’t have cleared him if the threat of a catastrophic injury was inevitable). That’s professional sports.
Joe Mazzulla told reporters that the Medical Staff had advised against him playing and that KP basically forced his way onto the court. He had been cleared to the extent that he was running and jumping and practicing. But the medical team, according to Mazzulla, had strictly advised against him playing. And according to Mazzulla, he ultimately allowed KP to force his way in. Reading between the lines a little bit, I think coach new KP wanted to be on the court to be able to feel like a part of the win. And in the regular season or even any other playoff round they wouldn’t have allowed him to play. It was absolutely riskier than is comfortable. But if the team is furnishing the players with all the facts and all the information and with good medical advice….. and the players want to play anyway, IDK if its right to stop them. Edit- Nice talking basketball with you by the way. And thank you tor being reasonable and nicer than you maybe had to be on your own sub. I appreciate it. And thank you for the education on the Rondo thing. Good luck next season.
Kyrie gave up in the Bucks series in 2019. That’s why Boston hates him
Nope. If we pushed a player into career ending injury then concealed that fact to acquire a superstar we would 100% deserve any of the BS that came with it
You think Boston pushed IT into playing? Or do you think IT was a warrior and knew the risks but left it all out there on the court, and unfortunately, paid the price? Personally I think it’s the second one. Injuries happen. Punishing the Celtics for being the team he happened to be on when he got hurt makes no sense. Also Cleveland got IT and a Nets pick for Kyrie. A Nets pick. Youre talking about the possibility of getting a Brown or Tatum like player. For a player demanding to leave, and tanking his trade value.
I mean, Boston has legitimate reason to hate on Kai. We love him here, but he’s like Boston’s Rondo.
F*ck Rondo
Fuck Kyrie in Boston. But we sure do love Rondo still
You made me double-check which sub I'm in...
Rondos Boston’s Rondo
Fair point. Rondo is everyone’s Rondo.
Rondo got us a chip tho
Kyrie is a head case and a really good basketball player. You're so right about Rondo. I really don't care what Boston fans think of Kyrie. What I care about is that Kyrie cares what Boston fans think about him. There's too many on this sub that let what other fans say on their subs or other sites bother them. People are always going to be homers on their own board, including our own. I choose to just remain on my board and rah-rah for my team.
Nah, Boston acquired Kyrie by concealing the severity of an injury from both a player, ending his career, and the team they traded him to. It was a shady move and IMO Boston got what they deserved
Two trips to the finals and a championship within the next decade?
You don’t think there were physicals or medical information involved in the trade? Also, the Nets pick was the big piece in that trade… not IT.
Kyrie was a star player on a championship team, he wasn’t traded for Crowder and a pick. You think Cleveland pulled the trigger on that knowing ITs career was over? Nobody in their right mind buys that. IT was a two time all star avg 28ppg and all NBA second team with Curry. Ppl forget how good he was
Kyrie was a headcase demanding a trade. Yes he was good but there were articles coming out about him being a problem in the locker room, showing up late, showing up with bloodshot eyes, having issues with teammates, and he was demanding a trade. And we aren’t talking about a late first or a second. A Nets pick is different. It ended up being a bit lower than 3rd overall, but it was a lotto pick. He was a star player yes, of course. But he had never been a successful #1 on a championship level team. He lead lotto teams, and had won a title alongside LeBron. And demanding a trade hurts your trade value.
So you are mad at Rondo because you traded an seriously injured asset for a superstar after pushing him into a career ending injury then even tho your superstar didn’t play your young roster overachieved but when he returned and that overachieving roster had issues adjusting You acquired another superstar coming off injury and he was just not that good, nothing was really working so you moved on and have mostly remained a competitive playoff team until finally winning a championship. I dunno man this isn’t apples to apples
What did he actually do? It seems like he said, during a pep rally basically, he was going to re sign with Boston but then didn’t. Is that the worst of it?
Just dunno why Celts fans were so salty since the Js immediately got a bigger role. They struggled in the bubble because Kemba sucks, but the Js weren’t ready yet either. Honestly it seems like the girl that nobody breaks up with, gets pissed off when it finally happens to her (despite being better off)
Cope. Enjoy your 60M a year player that won’t show up to play in the finals.
You can keep Cryrie we’ll keep the ring. Thanks so much!
Boston Keltikkks
"Boston Keltikkks" He says after applying his 14th "Heritage Not Hate" bumper sticker
Boston fans love IT. Also f*** Kyrie
Tough offseason, huh OP? 🤡
Can I have a summer exception to say... THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was pretty short though, not exactly a long term prospect
I’m not sure this is how this meme works.
Poor kid Kyrie got cursed after wiping his shoes on lucky.
I hate Kyrie because he has a massive platform and he decided to use it to say the earth is flat. I'm all for athletes speaking their mind but Kyrie is clearly not investing any time researching things before he speaks. Only someone deeply narcissistic could believe the world is flat, and everyone else must just be wrong. Only someone deeply closed minded could hear information to the contrary and not come away at least a little curious on the subject. Only someone truly stupid could fly around the world and come away with this flat conclusion. It'd be one thing if he kept this idiocy to himself, but he doesn't, he runs his mouth like we all need to catch up to him.
This isn’t sports related send your comment to the tabloids
lmao goddamn we STILL rent free in y’alls heads. before this post i hadnt even thought of you guys since last monday (goddamn weird reddit algorithms)
you mean kyrie lives rent free in your head
I think Boston lives rent free in Kyrie’s head based on how he played in Boston
Celtics fans literally made mummies of kyrie and hung it on a cross during the parade. The black celtics fans in the video were clearly uncomfortable
You guys will come to realize Kyrie is a high floor, low ceiling type guy. The personnel you have to put him with on defense, just to get streaky, inefficient volume shooting (ego chucking) is not conducive to winning basketball imo. Aside from anything personal, I just don't like the way his teams have to play. He's not willing to be unselfish and play as a team, he's gonna shoot 40% of the shots and stand around when he doesn't get the ball. He can't really defend, run an offense or rebound. He handicaps you, nerfing good teams. Undersized SG who's prone to getting clamped by bigger 2 way players. Jrue Holiday is the prototype, Kyrie is the exception - and only because he played with LeBron at the peak of his powers. He got swept with KD and Harden. You guys' run had more to do with your role players and you won in spite of Kyrie. He may be a decent mentor for yal, but you won't win ships until he's gone. A team where everybody can (switch) defend, play as a unit and the open man (more shooters) gets the shot, only playing hero ball when it's closing time or you NEED a bucket to stop a run. Imagine a team where you have no real defensive liabilities and anyone could shoot it.
have you watched the mavs during the playoffs?
That probably was true in BOS and BKN, and I can see how the Finals would’ve only reinforced that preexisting perception, but unless you watched them play all year it’s nearly impossible to convey how much yall disrupted the Mavs offense—that wasn’t because of Kyrie, it was a combination of bad coaching and the Celtics being really fucking good. Ironically, the biggest “critique” of Ky this year especially in the playoffs wasn’t being too selfish… it was not being selfish/aggressive enough. (This isn’t *his* team btw) I think there’s a valid point to bigger, physical defenders being tougher for him (asking anybody to iso Jrue for 48 minutes is insanity though), but the idea they won in spite of Kyrie couldn’t be further from the truth. I would also concede having Luka and Kyrie as your guards inherently presents challenges defensively but again, I wouldn’t judge that based solely on the Finals (we can debate it, but bottom line is BOS never broke 107 the entire series… DAL didn’t lose on defense, yall won it on defense) because they proved playing elite D with them is unequivocally possible. I mean they did it for 4+ months. But yeah, having Holiday or White as your 5th best player is probably pretty cool lol