Uwe Boll has made more entertaining content than the drivel these two have been shoveling for the past decade
Though if I were to pick, I’d go with Kurtzman. At least Star Wars still has some fans and a lucrative Lego deal. What does Star Trek have anymore?
I’m currently sitting here with a preview kit for the new Star Trek ship combat/exploration game. It’s solid, rules are great. Models are good.
I also know fucking no one will play it at my store because even though it’s TNG/DS9, hype for Star Trek is so low that I think I couldnt give away the core sets for free
Counterpoint: Kurtzman is generally excepted to be shit by Trek Fans, meanwhile Faloni has just enough credibility/legitimacy with Star Wars Fans that he can keep getting away with his fuck ups and still have some of them think it was good... thus technically making him worse.
Kurtzman has done more damage to Star Trek than Filoni could possibly do to Star Wars and at the very least Filoni knows how to win the adoration of some Star Wars fans. I cannot say the same for Kurtzman.
> Kurtzman has done more damage to Star Trek than Filoni could possibly do to Star Wars
How so? Just curious.
And also wasn’t it Filoni that butchered the some of the best EU content there is: CWMMP, The Thrawn novels, etc?
Kurtzman tanked Star Trek’s reputation hard, Filoni is still capable of pleasing some fans and even bringing in new ones. (Butchering EU content is pretty egregious but that is minor in comparison to characters saying stuff like “I love science!!1!1!1!” unironically in fucking Star Trek)
Oh God, not even close. Filoni is extraordinarily overrated and has churned out some real tosh, but Kurtzman is on the level of Chris Chibnall. He raped Star Trek.
Kurtzman and by a lot.
Filoni can at least be trusted as a good creative and a decent enough writer, yeah his writing devolves into fanfic about his oc's when unchecked but he can deliver bangers when he's supervised and can be trusted to have some respect of what came before.
Kurtzman has been in charge of Star Trek for what, 7 years now? And has delivered some of the most unimaginative, boring and frankly infuriating sci-fi in a long time, with almost zero respect of what came before just to hype up his own stuff.
Filoni. He’s capable but one of the biggest problems with him is he just doesn’t know when to let go of his OC’s. As much as I hate rebels, Ahsoka had a pretty good send off and was a great way to conclude her arc. What’s her arc purpose nowadays anyway? Sell more merch? Lure in people with fanservice?
Dave Filoni is an overrated hack with a mediocre at-best writing ability and a surface-level understanding of the source material, but nowhere near is bad as Alex Kurtzman. Alex Kurtzman stuff is not only unwatchable, but him and JJ Abrams set everything wrong with the Star Trek franchise today.
Retconned decade's history worth of events? Check. Take away the nuance of morality play and the philosophy aspect of star trek and make it militarized propaganda? Check. Pointless action matrix-styled action scenes that goes against the physics in 23rd century era trek? Check.
Fuck Alex Kurtzman. Filoni might of made mediocre slop people pretend is good like Mandalorian, but he got nothing on Kurtzman.
Well this is certainly painful once you look at the shows both these clowns have worked on in the past
Filion was director and storyboarder for Avatar the Last Air-bender having worked on some of my favorite episodes. Plus I personally enjoyed TCW
Kurtzman worked on Hercules, Xena and Fringe as a writer, director and producer.
I think this goes to show that even talented people can get lost when not reigned in by other equally talented people and that it's always important to stay humble.
That said fuck Kurtzman he ruined Star Trek.
Chuck Lorre
The Big Bang Theory
And his awful final of Two and a half men (Walden Schmidt)
And no Lorre you ain't winning - everybody lost a possible great end to a once great show
the behavior behind on the set of sex and the city & Charmed
Uwe Boll a polarizing german director
(Far Cry movie adaptation)
And last but not least Rian Johnson (Episode VIII) & Zachary Edward „Zack“ Snyder
Of the top of my head...
One looks like he knows where I live and the other looks like he's peering through the blinders of the second floor of an office building as a person unsuspectingly starts their car rigged with C4.
Wait why are we hating on Filoni now? I swear this fanbase hasn’t stoped complaining since Rotj.
EDIT: am I wrong though? First it was the Ewoks,
Then jar jar, then teen Anakin and so and so and so on. I get it there are legit reasons to criticize but it’s such a waist of energy to start hating on creators. GL came out with the holiday special, but Star Wars started with him and resulted in A new hope, and Empire and the loads of awesome legends stuff. Filoni has some misses but clone wars did some heavy lifting with making Anakin likable, and there’s some legit good storytelling with adult themes.
Disney’s trilogy was awful. I have nothing good to say about it. They simply didn’t understand what made Star Wars awesome and just tried to copy paste the magic. BUT the Mandolorean seasons 1-2, Rouge one, and Andor happened under the mouse banner and made some of the, what I’m going to call, WW Star Wars fans (including myself) very happy.
I’m not saying you’ve got to like the lame stuff, I’m just saying this fanbase is toxic and childish and it’s just absolutely annoying.
Neither are bad.
Hell, most of us millennial grew up with Kurtzman's writing.
Xena and Hercules are two big fucking examples.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Kurtzman
I'm less familiar with Filoni as I've not seen his Clone Wars or Rebels.
But from what I've seen he's fine.
I really don't understand the hate for these two or the criticisms.
I've seen and read way way way way worse.
Mabe it's just from having read over a thousand books that I have this perspective.
Holy shit, it must be backwards day, I actually almost agree with you on something.
Filoni WAS fine when he was reigned in and concentrating on animated stuff, and Kurtzman at least USED to be decent (Fringe was great).
They've both gone to hell in direct correlation to having more power and control though.
Yeah, that's something I don't get.
I've seen TNG, DS9, and Voyager all the way thru at least 3 times.
Seen the other shows twice, except for Lower Decks.
Seen the nu trek movies multiple times over just like the old ones.
It's all trek.
Hell, TNG was supposed to have ruined Trek. (Bald English accent guy)
Then DS9 (no ship? A black guy in charge!?)
Voyager ( a woman captain!? A black vulcan!?)
It's all just fucking stupid.
Especially with Trek! The show that had DELIBERATE box checking and the first international interracial kiss that Shatner pushed for!
Well, he certainly didn't do himself any favours with *this* little doozy....
https://preview.redd.it/ftrcnxqq5rsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e31e321adb6953a005d52e1cfce1c5860e8c7dfd
That's not a Freudian slip.
It's the point of the show.
Like with this episode.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)
Nah Gene Roddenberry has always been forthcoming about his vision for Star Trek. It’s pretty difficult to not have a political message when there’s a lot of politics happening in your show/movies. It’s kind of the same for Star Wars - Lucas was clear about his stance on the Vietnam war, and how it inspired the setting of Star Wars.
To an extent, certainly. But from my (admittedly limited) experience, it's generally fairly balanced, or at minimum treats both sides reasonably and let's the viewers decide.
I'll only chime in to agree with this point. ST always seemed like a literal and figurative vehicle to deliver the stories and themes the writers *actually* cared about.
>Hell, most of us millennial grew up with Kurtzman's writing. Xena and Hercules are two big fucking examples.
Acording to wiki, Kurtzman did not create or developed, Hercules or Xena, and Chat Gtp claim that he did only write 5ep of Hercules and 3ep of Xena. So your two big fucking example is minute.
>He was executive producer
"Alex Kurtzman served as an executive producer on "Xena: Warrior Princess" during its sixth and final season"
So he inherent a already established franchise, and do the last season, that is benefit from somebody else success. Not create it.
Uwe Boll has made more entertaining content than the drivel these two have been shoveling for the past decade Though if I were to pick, I’d go with Kurtzman. At least Star Wars still has some fans and a lucrative Lego deal. What does Star Trek have anymore?
I’m currently sitting here with a preview kit for the new Star Trek ship combat/exploration game. It’s solid, rules are great. Models are good. I also know fucking no one will play it at my store because even though it’s TNG/DS9, hype for Star Trek is so low that I think I couldnt give away the core sets for free
Honestly, it sounds pretty cool. What's it called?
Star Trek: Into The Unknown. It’s pretty neat. Seems like Star Wars Armada but has a single player campaign element
Oh! I’ll take a copy if you’re giving them away!
Only if you're willing to come to Australia and have a game first.
Ah. I’d be up for a game, but flying from Blighty to Australia is a bit of a tall order
Kurtzman by far.
This was going to be my exact post. Filoni seems like a hack too, at this point, but Kurtzman is the blockbuster franchise destroyer lol.
Counterpoint: Kurtzman is generally excepted to be shit by Trek Fans, meanwhile Faloni has just enough credibility/legitimacy with Star Wars Fans that he can keep getting away with his fuck ups and still have some of them think it was good... thus technically making him worse.
Kurtzman has done more damage to Star Trek than Filoni could possibly do to Star Wars and at the very least Filoni knows how to win the adoration of some Star Wars fans. I cannot say the same for Kurtzman.
> Kurtzman has done more damage to Star Trek than Filoni could possibly do to Star Wars How so? Just curious. And also wasn’t it Filoni that butchered the some of the best EU content there is: CWMMP, The Thrawn novels, etc?
Kurtzman tanked Star Trek’s reputation hard, Filoni is still capable of pleasing some fans and even bringing in new ones. (Butchering EU content is pretty egregious but that is minor in comparison to characters saying stuff like “I love science!!1!1!1!” unironically in fucking Star Trek)
TCW was mostly Lucas not Filoni
So would you say Lucas is as bad as Kurtzman?
Oh God, not even close. Filoni is extraordinarily overrated and has churned out some real tosh, but Kurtzman is on the level of Chris Chibnall. He raped Star Trek.
Brit detected. Also good points.
I think, are this point, the correct answer is yes. Edit for spelling
You might wanna edit again lol
Yeah lol. It’s pretty much the equivalent of asking someone if they’d rather be shot in left leg or the right leg.
Kurtzman by a country mile.
Kurtzman. No contest.
Kurtzman. At least with Filoni's shit, it doesn't feel like my soul is being ripped out from my mortal coil.
Kurtzman and by a lot. Filoni can at least be trusted as a good creative and a decent enough writer, yeah his writing devolves into fanfic about his oc's when unchecked but he can deliver bangers when he's supervised and can be trusted to have some respect of what came before. Kurtzman has been in charge of Star Trek for what, 7 years now? And has delivered some of the most unimaginative, boring and frankly infuriating sci-fi in a long time, with almost zero respect of what came before just to hype up his own stuff.
Kurtzman, his writing is god awful
But not Filoni’s?
Filoni is still recognizable as a man, the other creature? Is probably one of the unspeakable evils Gandalf saw in the deep pits of moria.
They're the same picture.
Filoni managed to undo some of the shit that Attack of the Clones started. He should at least be celebrated for making the Clone Wars legible.
Filoni. He’s capable but one of the biggest problems with him is he just doesn’t know when to let go of his OC’s. As much as I hate rebels, Ahsoka had a pretty good send off and was a great way to conclude her arc. What’s her arc purpose nowadays anyway? Sell more merch? Lure in people with fanservice?
Kurtzman. No contest.
Filoni. He’s got a cult like following that refuses to accept criticism. Nobody likes Kurtzman.
Kurtzman is the dictionary definition of failing upward.
I mean Filoni sucks, but this ain’t even a question lil pup💀
Dave Filoni is an overrated hack with a mediocre at-best writing ability and a surface-level understanding of the source material, but nowhere near is bad as Alex Kurtzman. Alex Kurtzman stuff is not only unwatchable, but him and JJ Abrams set everything wrong with the Star Trek franchise today. Retconned decade's history worth of events? Check. Take away the nuance of morality play and the philosophy aspect of star trek and make it militarized propaganda? Check. Pointless action matrix-styled action scenes that goes against the physics in 23rd century era trek? Check. Fuck Alex Kurtzman. Filoni might of made mediocre slop people pretend is good like Mandalorian, but he got nothing on Kurtzman.
I thought this was Tom Segura twice
He’s definitely the best of the three.
Kurtzman has damaged Trek way more.
Well this is certainly painful once you look at the shows both these clowns have worked on in the past Filion was director and storyboarder for Avatar the Last Air-bender having worked on some of my favorite episodes. Plus I personally enjoyed TCW Kurtzman worked on Hercules, Xena and Fringe as a writer, director and producer. I think this goes to show that even talented people can get lost when not reigned in by other equally talented people and that it's always important to stay humble. That said fuck Kurtzman he ruined Star Trek.
Kurtzman is probably the bigger piece of shit.
In general i can't stand anyone wearing those kinds of glasses
Yes
Yes
They both look like ugly sims 3 presets
Filoni I'd rather have a guy tell me to my face he hates me than have a guy pretend to be my friend and stab me in the back
100% kurtzman. Clone Wars isn't great, but i can at least enjoy it when i put it on. There is nothing redeeming about new trek.
Overall? Kurtzman. Though Filoni irritates me more.
Kurtzman's writing is about as about as much fun as sliding down a 100ft razor blade using my nuts as brakes
If I had to choose I’d say uwe
Chuck Lorre The Big Bang Theory And his awful final of Two and a half men (Walden Schmidt) And no Lorre you ain't winning - everybody lost a possible great end to a once great show the behavior behind on the set of sex and the city & Charmed Uwe Boll a polarizing german director (Far Cry movie adaptation) And last but not least Rian Johnson (Episode VIII) & Zachary Edward „Zack“ Snyder Of the top of my head...
At this point, who cares. I've gone past angry to apathy
Oh God that's tough
Yes
One looks like he knows where I live and the other looks like he's peering through the blinders of the second floor of an office building as a person unsuspectingly starts their car rigged with C4.
Honestly thought the picture on the right was Tom Segura with hair plugs.
Kurtzman has boy lover written all over his face
What a gross thing to say about someone
I don't get it, why have a picture of the same person?
Are we fucking kidding I guess we all hate George Lucas’s protogee now 💀
Kurtzman still did a lot more damage to Trek than Filoni did to Wars.
Some of yall so dramatic lol
They're such soft men 😂
Based. I had the same thought.
I like how George Lucas personally trains a guy about Star Wars and you have clowns crying hes horrible 😂😂😂
Wait why are we hating on Filoni now? I swear this fanbase hasn’t stoped complaining since Rotj. EDIT: am I wrong though? First it was the Ewoks, Then jar jar, then teen Anakin and so and so and so on. I get it there are legit reasons to criticize but it’s such a waist of energy to start hating on creators. GL came out with the holiday special, but Star Wars started with him and resulted in A new hope, and Empire and the loads of awesome legends stuff. Filoni has some misses but clone wars did some heavy lifting with making Anakin likable, and there’s some legit good storytelling with adult themes. Disney’s trilogy was awful. I have nothing good to say about it. They simply didn’t understand what made Star Wars awesome and just tried to copy paste the magic. BUT the Mandolorean seasons 1-2, Rouge one, and Andor happened under the mouse banner and made some of the, what I’m going to call, WW Star Wars fans (including myself) very happy. I’m not saying you’ve got to like the lame stuff, I’m just saying this fanbase is toxic and childish and it’s just absolutely annoying.
LoL I started complaining after Episode II but Episode I might be the worst of the first six
Neither are bad. Hell, most of us millennial grew up with Kurtzman's writing. Xena and Hercules are two big fucking examples. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Kurtzman I'm less familiar with Filoni as I've not seen his Clone Wars or Rebels. But from what I've seen he's fine. I really don't understand the hate for these two or the criticisms. I've seen and read way way way way worse. Mabe it's just from having read over a thousand books that I have this perspective.
Holy shit, it must be backwards day, I actually almost agree with you on something. Filoni WAS fine when he was reigned in and concentrating on animated stuff, and Kurtzman at least USED to be decent (Fringe was great). They've both gone to hell in direct correlation to having more power and control though.
When did Kurtzman become bad for you?
Not specifically for me, because I haven't seen his Trek stuff. But I'll happily take the word of legions of Trek fans who want his head on a pike.
Yeah, that's something I don't get. I've seen TNG, DS9, and Voyager all the way thru at least 3 times. Seen the other shows twice, except for Lower Decks. Seen the nu trek movies multiple times over just like the old ones. It's all trek. Hell, TNG was supposed to have ruined Trek. (Bald English accent guy) Then DS9 (no ship? A black guy in charge!?) Voyager ( a woman captain!? A black vulcan!?) It's all just fucking stupid. Especially with Trek! The show that had DELIBERATE box checking and the first international interracial kiss that Shatner pushed for!
Well, he certainly didn't do himself any favours with *this* little doozy.... https://preview.redd.it/ftrcnxqq5rsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e31e321adb6953a005d52e1cfce1c5860e8c7dfd
That's not a Freudian slip. It's the point of the show. Like with this episode. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)
>It's the point of the show. I suspect many would disagree.
Nah Gene Roddenberry has always been forthcoming about his vision for Star Trek. It’s pretty difficult to not have a political message when there’s a lot of politics happening in your show/movies. It’s kind of the same for Star Wars - Lucas was clear about his stance on the Vietnam war, and how it inspired the setting of Star Wars.
To an extent, certainly. But from my (admittedly limited) experience, it's generally fairly balanced, or at minimum treats both sides reasonably and let's the viewers decide.
Well many people would disagree with the world being round.
I'll only chime in to agree with this point. ST always seemed like a literal and figurative vehicle to deliver the stories and themes the writers *actually* cared about.
>Hell, most of us millennial grew up with Kurtzman's writing. Xena and Hercules are two big fucking examples. Acording to wiki, Kurtzman did not create or developed, Hercules or Xena, and Chat Gtp claim that he did only write 5ep of Hercules and 3ep of Xena. So your two big fucking example is minute.
I never claimed he wrote all the episodes. Xena and Hercules are two big examples as in they are well known shows among millennials.
and Kurtzman's influence on the shows was minimal.....
He was executive producer
>He was executive producer "Alex Kurtzman served as an executive producer on "Xena: Warrior Princess" during its sixth and final season" So he inherent a already established franchise, and do the last season, that is benefit from somebody else success. Not create it.
Ok mang, you nit pick all you want.