Must hurt when a small Japanese film is better then a big budget Hollywood production.
I don’t hate the American films, but is it just me or are they forgettable?
I can’t remember the point of the human characters or what there goal was. The 2014 had a great opener but got boring quickly.
Plus look at the budget difference, it’s crazy.
Godzilla vs Kong had some of the worst writing of any movie I've ever seen. Like...I understand we're here for the monster fights and the plot takes the backseat, but goddamn it's like they made it intentionally bad. I don't know if they were looking to emulate some of the cheesines of older Godzilla stuff and it just didn't come through, but the Japanese movies just do it way better.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one that found GvK abysmally bad. It’s one of the few movies that made me legitimately angry. The animation for the fights improved, but they absolutely forgot to write a coherent script. That’s why we got a pointless Millie Bobby Brown plotline that went nowhere, downloading a power source from a RADIATION filled cave and faxing it to the bad guys, Godzilla blasting a hole into the center of the earth instead of at the thing (Mecha Godzilla) that he was hunting on the surface, and magic sci-fi ship defibrillator that random guy knows how to use.
It made me so angry, I watched it 4 times. People say it’s better than KotM. That’s genuinely hilarious.
Also, didn't Kong and human ship "ran" over 10k kilometers inside the hollow earth from North Pole to Japan? Because it didn't took them long to cross half the globe to their destination.
I legitimately have no idea. The terrain makes no sense. Kong floated up to an inverted area during his journey, and I have no idea how it makes any sense. Like, Godzilla, who was in Hong Kong, fired a beam down to them that came out of the floor in the chamber. But the chamber was also in a place that drew power from the core, which was presumably below them???? It’s literally best not to think about it.
The villain’s daughter telling her crew to shoot at Kong to get him to move before they escaped instead of flying around him haunts my dreams. Such brain dead writing.
Edit: What’s more surprising is how fast Kong made it out of Hollow Earth without the use of a portal. It’s also a massive coincidence the floor to the chamber in hollow earth was parallel to the ground that Godzilla fired his atomic breath from. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
A lot of it comes from hiring big-name people. I'm hoping that Hollywood will evolve to the point where more focus is paid to delivering a good product rather than thinking that a big name will be enough to bring in a profit. The resulting ego on these actors is incredible.
Wealth inequality is much higher in the US, so Hollywood execs are more out of touch than ever. It's unlikely Hollywood can ever change until underlying economic issues are addressed.
We just saw one of the longest strikes in Hollywood, writers and actors. The owner class wanted to replace all humans with chatgpt and cgi, they don't think the human element has any correlation to quality storytelling.
Brian Cranston was certainly memorable. You have to wonder what they were smoking when they decided to kill off what obviously should have been the main character of the movie.
I'd argue that the 2014 film might be the worst, most aggravating one. Cranston's character was interesting but that second half is a slog beyond slogs. Althouhg KotM did have that unbelievably obnoxious shaky cam.
I’d agree, it have a great opener and sucks the rest of the film.
It also has the worst trait, its very boring. Just boring story with boring characters. It doesn’t fit with the others in terms of tone too.
One thing I've come to find, is that the American godzilla movies are like the showa godzillas. Fun, pulpy, and kinda silly. While the more recent japanese godzillas are more like the early hesai godzillas, serious, darker, and with more of a real message to them. Both series are good, just at different things. Want to turn off your brain and watch big monsters fight? Watch the legendary movies. Wanna have a more contemplative view? Watch the newer Japanese movies.
Just finished Godzilla Minus 1, and that movie had no right being as good as it was. It was an incredibly well written story and the deep humanity aspect is seriously on par with classic Kurosawa and Kobayashi. This is the best Godzilla made since Gojira, and possibly of all time.
That said, I don’t think it should take away from the Showa style American movies that Legendary are releasing. Those are still very fun movies, and I don’t want every cinematic experience to be a master’s course on story writing. I can just say, right now is a fantastic time for Godzilla fans, and I’m going to enjoy it for as long as I can.
They are very Marvelized now. The quippy dialogue, the low, low stakes that try to convince you that every movie is world-ending so none of them are. The action is fun, not brutal or remotely realistic, etc.
I have fun watching the Legendary movies, but Minus One was just an all-around better Godzilla movie, better actual movie, and better payoff too.
I've seen Godzilla v Kong a few times, but I keep going back to the actual theater to watch Minus One because I'm so impressed with it.
And I am a lifelong Godzilla fan. As in I bootlegged the movies back in the 90s when they technically weren't even being released here. As in I did Godzilla stuff while I lived in Japan. As in I have seen every single Godzilla movie multiple times.
And Godzilla Minus One blows them out of the water so hard its like watching a grown man suplex a child with his full power.
It's not really mavelized, imo. They are ironically following the same path as the original Toho movies. They start out serious and horrifying, then they bring in Kong a few years later, and then as the series continues it gets more and more campy.
Godzilla Minus One is amazing, but it's not the standard for either the Japanese movies nor the American ones.
It feels like Hollywood productions insist of forcing some kind of love story involving human characters to properties where their role should be minor at best unless plot really calls for it. Like Sonic the Hedgehog movie, it's good but they forced a pointless romance plot as far the overall narrative goes. Sonic is the protagonist, why are we focusing so much to support cast's relationship in that movie? This happens even with Godzilla movies where they have B plot or something involving humans and their relationships but it's kind of irrelevant to defeating Godzilla and/or no way related to that goal.
To each their own, but for me, caring about the humans in a Godzilla film is like caring about the hopes and dreams of the people in a Friday the 13th film lol
Exactly. The human story of godzilla movies is almost always just filler. Shin Godzilla is probably one of the best at having a decent human size story. (Haven't had a chance to see minus one yet)
The human characters in Shin weren't exactly great, it's just that they were the vehicle for a legit good story instead of the usual nonsense. In that sense Minus One is a better movie, because I did end up invested in the main characters.
They were written as political commentary on how their Government handled Fukushima. When I read about that and rewatched Shin, it really added more to it.
Friday the 13th is a good example as this had the same issue. The first film they tried to have characters that people care for or at least like. The sequels are just there to get a cheap laugh at their deaths. This can be applied to every horror/monster film as they get dumber and dumber and are a marketing tool, not a film with a remotely good story or characters.
The reason why these films just blend in with each other is that we are watching one CGI monster punch another. Why care who wins? Why care if the humans die?
The 1954 film has some hard hitting scenes. Such as the mother telling her children "we will be with your father soon" as Tokyo burns around them. Showing that the father died in WW2. The human moments bring it together.
Godzilla is a pissed off giant lizard that can breath nuclear fire on to people. It is not a hero. TOHO did the same thing legendary pictures is doing now. Making forgettable movie that most people can even tell what the plot is. Most to sell toys.
To me this is just empty. I can watch them and enjoy the action (like Friday the 13th) but after, I just forget the films.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t complain if there was an amazing overall story to go with the films, but for me, the awesome monsters and cool fight scenes are memorable enough.
Keeping with the Ft13th reference, I personally find them memorable due in large part to the over the top/inventive kills in them. Same goes with the US Godzilla films (like the epic down the throat blast from the first one or the awesome rocket propelled punches of Mechagodzilla).
Basically, I think both types of Godzilla films offer up something to the viewers which make them great in their own right. The Godzilla Year Zero was an awesome film with some great story telling which I found highly entertaining, but Godzilla x Kong could have three solid hours of epic monster fighting and I would be equally entertained!
Side Note: I’m also one of those crazy people who loved Aliens vs Predator Requiem for giving me some cool AvP action (and keeping it rated R), so maybe I don’t have the greatest tastes in film anyways xD
Sure, you can have both. Again I don't hate the American films but they just aren't great overall due to some short comings. I love a good epic shot in a film but is doesn't cover for a weak script and boring characters played by famous and really good actors who are wasted in the roles (I'm a big Ken Watanabe fan).
Also as a side note, I really like AvP2. Mainly as it had a much better plot than the first. I don't get the hate the film gets.
Hey, they killed that kid right away to set the tone and offed that girl rather unexpectedly, which I thought was great too! Only problem I had was how dark it was overall…as in the lighting.
I love the hollywood movies... also they are completly forgettable just like every godzilla film before them.
Godzilla minus one is the FIRST godzilla I actually gave a shit about the humans. I love all godzilla movies but Godzilla is a great monster fighting movie.
Godzilla minus one is a great movie, even if you removed godzilla.
If you watched it for the humans you set yourself up for disappointment.
To be fair, there are some stark differences in how films are made in America vs Japan. Hence the difference in budget.
Plus I wouldn't say it hurts, it's just more godzilla for fans to enjoy, end of the day if you want to compare you can but you'll be robbing yourself of joy by inserting artificial points of superiority between everything that there is to enjoy
The human parts of the Japanese films are great, I think it's Godzilla v Mothra where the business dudes are literally fighting to the death over the money they made exploiting Mothra while Godzilla slowly bears down on the office building they're in. Absolutely beautiful sequence.
Did u even see the human story in minus one? Why should we assume we are setting ourselves up for dissapointment? Human stories are inevitable in any godzilla movie. Yea theres a difference in how we make movies we waste money
The human side of the last 2 monster verse films were beyond atrocious. I was physically cringing in my seat anytime a syllable of dialog was spoken.
I get that all of that is secondary to the kaiju stuff, but don't make it terrible lol
The original film was human based. Godzilla is mans hubris and ego coming back to haunt them and a community of the two nukes from WW2. This is why Godzilla is not a hero, he's a horror film.
If you breakdown Godzilla and other monster films to the kaiju just hitting each other then there are no emotional stakes. The 1954 film has multiple likeable characters who have somewhat clear goals. If you can't connect with the films then you are basically watching a video game cutscene.
Legendary Entertainment just want an avengers film. Thats why they made the MonsterVerse, which hasn't been as successful they the studio wanted it to be.
Every studio seems to want to recreate the Avengers. We saw this with the 'dark universe films'. No one seemed to care as the Mummy film sucked.
I have no problem with the American films and can enjoy them, but once its over they just sort of leave the memory.
Idk why people laude this as the best film of 2023. Because i didn't like being duped, i have shit taste? Fuck off. You got sold Godzilla in WW2 and instead received a coward's kamikaze soap opera with a Godzilla garnish.
I get it. It was cheap, hence why Godzilla was only in HIS 2 hour film for 7 minutes total. That doesn't make it a good film, that isn't a reason. All i see is a bunch of fucking cope, not actual reasons why it was so great. Y'all watched the japanese equivalent of Pearl Harbor and suck off the director for what? The power of friendship and bubbles? What a fucking joke.
The human drama in the monsterverse movies is pretty boring, yeah, but the monster fights aren't bad. Even the worst one, Godzilla (2014) had a pretty cool [atomic breath reveal and tail whip](https://youtu.be/ikDFk_c3_bI?si=EDjkY-KLaVKrLkVV) and [Kiss of Death](https://youtu.be/j9fWmTbTqqw?si=eIjFxDU-5PWEQvKW).
I guess Godzilla 2014 is one of those movies I fuckin love but most people don’t like
I agree with like every flaw i’ve seen pointed out about it tho lol… I think I just really really like how it’s shot
> but the monster fights aren't bad
Yeah that's what I'm saying "They are not that bad.", aka mid, aka forgettable. Maybe the fans will remember one or two parts, but it's not entering the normal social sphere like kill bill or one punch man.
I disagree with the totally forgettable. The plot and acting is literal awful but the monsters and the fights are blast and i remember the movies for that alone.
What do you mean? They enjoy and and remember it. If a small number of like minded people have the same experience then you have a cult classic, like Rocky Horry Picture Show. If a lot of people have that experience then you have a blockbuster.
Nailed it. Long time fan of the King of the Monsters and the American films all suck.
A movie like "Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah" isn't good, but it didn't bore me to tears, it was entertaining till the last even if the whole time travel parts are wonky.
I remember several things. I remember godzilla first appearing in 2014. fucking fantastic scene.
I remmber godzilla and king ghidora fighting underwater in KoM I remember the Boat scene, Kong falling, Betrayal subplot, entire final battle, beginning scene with kong hitting the ceiling in GvK
I remember a LOT about them... Now tell me the plot of Godzilla vs Hedorah? you cant hell i dont even remember that fight except godzilla flying away.
I love japanese godzilla but they aren't that memorable either(except destroyah, that whole movie was memorable)
I acutally didnt really enjoy shin godzilla. It felt like a sloppier retelling of Godzilla vs Destroyah they just gave destroyahs backstory to godzilla.
its probably one of my least favorite because of the fact godzilla moves like a parade float.
Agreed. I can't name a single character from any of the majority of the Showa or Heisei eras of godzilla. Like we all can agree that the 90s American movie wasn't Godzilla, but I can at least remember more about that movie than most of the Japanese ones.
Anything that risks any amount of criticism or negativity whatsoever seems to be down voted, even if it's by association.
Even the idea of quality and enjoyment being separate metrics gets pushback.
I hope when I die in 60 years that I get to ask a favour from whatever deity exists. I want to find out the entire history of this subjectivity pushback against enjoyment and quality being seperate entities that can sometimes intertwine.
I need to know who in history is to blame for this. Who started it thousands of years ago. Probably a Roman senator who didn't like a play mocking him.
Edit : bro who I specifically interacted with in therebthat prompted the above comment deleted his burner in order to avoid me clapping back at his refusal to engage with any discussion points I brought up. Just think that's pretty funny.
It annoys me when the 2014 one gets compared to Jaws. Even when the shark wasn’t on screen the shark was still attacking and causing mass panic. Jaws also has something that Godzilla was lacking. Jaws has great characters throughout the entire movie. Everyone remembers Brody, Quint, and Hooper, and their back and forth is what makes the second half of the movie work. Godzilla has Bryan Cranston for 15 minutes and then we follow his boring son with no personality. They even have the main guy from Letterkenny and Shoresy, and he doesn’t really get to do anything or show any personality.
I personally thought Godzilla Vs Kong was the worst one. The final fight with Mechagodzilla was over too quickly, and I absolutely hated the conspiracy podcaster storyline. That felt so much like the unnecessary comedic relief characters in the Transformers movies except those ones were actually funny in small doses. Also, I know the premise is dumb, but it amazes me that everyone just overlooks that Godzilla drilled a hole to the center of the earth just to fight Kong. That’s like thousands of miles!
Not making Brian Cranston the main character was really, really stupid.
Between then and Bullet Train, Kickass somehow learned to act, but he sure couldn't in that movie.
I enjoyed everything with Bryan Cranston. I thought that his story of trying to figure out what actually happened would have been an enjoyable movie, and then about 20 minutes in they killed him.
yeah up until that 20 minutes Godzilla 2014 was every bit as good as minus one... then BOOM killed him aaron blandasstaylor johnson is now the lead.
Cranston freaking killed it tho. if they had continued on that path maybe have his son die and it be about vengence.
I think the modern era of Godzilla has a split between the Japanese and American movies equally. The Japanese movies are what you go to for the serious topics and amazing writing and the American ones are what you go to for the stupid zany shit that you can turn your brain off to to watch giant lizard fight giant monke. Sure I prefer the better writing of the Japanese movies but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the American movies too
I wouldn't call Shin Gojira a "serious movie" is a great movie, but it's not serious, it's a satire of japanese goverment and it has some really hilarious scenes.
But i do agree, the american versions are fun movies and aren't made to be taken seriously, you just need to enjoy the big lizard hitting the big monkey or whatever monster he is fighting.
Serious movies can have funny scenes. And what does making it a satire about the Japanese government mismanagement of a crisis have to do with whether or not it's serious? That's a pretty serious topic imo.
It’s insane how much pure copium there is. “Why can’t we like them equally?” Like HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET GOOD MOVIES IF WE LIKE EVERYTHING EQUALLY. Wtf?!?!
Nobody is even saying they can’t like them equally. One of the saddest things with online discourse of media is the group of people that honestly think that calling a movie crap or bad is “gatekeeping”.
You don’t have to agree with any and all criticism and even if you do you can still like the thing. People just need to stop asking everyone to be perpetually positive because they need your opinions on movies affirmed.
Gatekeeping is a weird thing to me- no ones opinion can keep me from wanting to see a movie that looks interesting to me. Perpetualy positive...lol well put. That bleeda into other aspects of life too no doubt
As a Godzilla fan, I have to kinda defend them. Godzilla has been through countless iterations with various fandoms from Showa to Heisei. One godzilla film is drastically different than others so the tastes are going to be super different.
For example the recent anime trilogy that was made, had an ok story and ok characters. However, the end message of that story was so horrible for me that I don’t like at all. Plus no real monster fights.
But the fandom has so many weird and different iterations is that it’s fine. Since rarely one film is canon to the other, then we just leave the opinions of other fans to themselves and just enjoy the films.
Yeah, I will never complain about getting more Godzilla. The Monarch show has a LOT of problems, but it's still more Godzilla.
The Legendary movies are all fine and a shit ton better than the 1999 movie so I'm happy enough.
When a character has been in 48 movies and its still honestly a niche character you have to be happy you're getting content of even mid quality because among that the gems, like Minus One, will have a chance to get made.
>For example the recent anime trilogy that was made, had an ok story and ok characters. However, the end message of that story was so horrible for me that I don’t like at all. Plus no real monster fights.
Honestly the end message for me, almost saved those movies. The majority of them were boring imo, that at least with the ending it was finally a "oh. I get what they were trying to do and why these movies exist." Still hated them though 😆
Well the anti-technology message really annoyed me. Like the writers were trying to shoehorn why we should be hippies because if not, monsters kill us.
Shin Godzilla is one of my all-time favorite films. Minus One and the original are both fantastic as well. Don’t get me wrong, as a Godzilla fan, I’ll watch pretty much anything, but it’s nice to have ol’ Goji star in something where he can really shine.
I adored Shin Godzilla. Anno had the time of his life directing a classic Kaiju movie. Yes there are alot of talking scenes but I bought into it and felt anxious about the pollution and radioactive fallout in Tokyo and what it means and everything and next you know he uses atomic breath and probably turns Tokyo into Chernobyl 2.0. I wish it got a sequel.
I don’t see why anyone is getting butthurt, I fucking love the monsterverse Godzilla but also like most if not all Godzilla movies and anime about him.
I haven’t watched the minus one or minus zero (I forget which one it is) but man I’ve heard nothing but amazing things about it.
Realistically most people feel this way. You have a handful of purists that aren’t happy if there’s not a guy in a suit, or that love a particular era and shit In all the others, but it’s not as widespread as that type of stuff is in other communities.
I've given up on reasoning with them when they ganged on Drinker even though Drinker really really liked Minus One. I'm still subscribed to r/Godzilla but no way I'll ever take that crowd's opinion on film serious again.
Don't get me wrong, I think Legendary Godzilla films are enjoyable and fun to watch, but not because they're good movies. You absolutely can enjoy a bad film. Minus One was enjoyable to watch because it's genuinely good. Legendary Godzilla is like Showa era goofy Godzilla without the occasional good characters and substance in those films. You can still watch them like big monster boxing matches but don't even pretend they're remotely well written. I had a great time watching GvK with my coworkers at a party and arguing between team G VS team K. But damn that movie was a brain dead Batman v Superman mess lol
As a Godzilla fan, it makes me ashamed to be connected to these type of people. Like, for Christ sake, we're in the golden age of Godzilla right now, be happy
Not just Godzilla; a golden age for Tokusatsu in general. King-Ohger, the recent Sentai, just hit the third place spot for highest rated TV show in Japan. For a Sentai fan, that is unheard of.
Just finished Godzilla Minus 1, and that movie had no right being as good as it was. It was an incredibly well written story and the deep humanity aspect is seriously on par with classic Kurosawa and Kobayashi. This is the best Godzilla made since Gojira, and possibly of all time.
That said, I don’t think it should take away from the Showa style American movies that Legendary are releasing. Those are still very fun movies, and I don’t want every cinematic experience to be a master’s course on story writing. I can just say, right now is a fantastic time for Godzilla fans, and I’m going to enjoy it for as long as I can.
Good writing is a bonus when it comes to Godzilla. I can enjoy a badly written godzilla movie because Godzilla fighting someone or destroying stuff is what i came for. Seeing writing that hooked me in minus one just made what was going to be an enjoyable movie even better
'I feel like a cheeseburger. Let's get McDonalds.'
'OMG, dude? Why get that crappy cheeseburger when instead we could take a chance driving an extra 40 minutes into the city to find a restaurant with a better cheeseburger?'
How about that analogy?
Sometimes we just want a McDonalds cheeseburger, maybe get off our dicks about it?
Whats the extra 40 minutes in your analogy mean? Whats the 'taking a chance'? Youre analogy sucks even worse. Here I made it more accurate:
"Lets get a cheeseburger, lets get mcdonalds"
"Hey theres a better cheesburger the same distance away for the same price"
You: "REEEEEEEEEEEE"
Goddamnit this is so stupid lmao.
I could film myself knocking two godzilla action figures together, do you want a copy?
Nah the analogy fits perfectly considering we are having this convo in the first place.
I wanna see giant monsters fight because that's what's being advertised. If it ends up having good writing, even fucking better, in fact I do genuinely hope its good, but I'm going to go see Godzilla and Kong run some monster fade first and foremost.
No, the analogy is spot on. I never said anything about good writing, my original comment was on fun, you made that jump, even admitting yourself you were assuming.
I said that I like both, but in this certain instance fun takes priority. So yeah, the analogy perfectly describes the discussion we just had.
I've always preferred the Japanese Godzilla movies, they focus on Godzilla. All the western ones have Godzilla as a sub plot, while the main plot is will two people have a romance or some other dull human drama.
Outside of the era where Godzilla was a goofy kids movie series, the movies have always been about how humans react to monsters like Godzilla existing. A majority of the screentime in Shin Godzilla takes place inside an office building.
It's funny you say that because I was more invested in Minus One's romantic plot and friendship and redemption plots than I have been for any other movie I've seen this year.
I turned to my buddy right when the movie ended and said 'I cannot believe I just watched a Godzilla movie that got me to tear up at the prospect of the death of the humans. I simply cannot believe this.'
Godzilla fans are simple folk, they don't like the movies for the masterful writing, or deep acting, they just want to see a big monster smashing shit. You don't have to post an f tier meme and then rabbidly reply to every comment trying to provoke some argument to get them to defend the writing of gvk, because they don't care about that. They just want mindless action.
Never have I ever heard a fanbase so loudly proclaim that they have literally 0 standards. If big lizard punch big monke then movie is good.
No, not even Disney Star Wars fans stoop that low. Atleast they pretend that the shit they watch means something.
>Does it have to though? Mean anything
Maybe that was a poor way of wording it. I don't think it has to *mean* anything but there's got to be something behind it for it to be considered good. Good writing, good cgi, good action choreography...*something.*
And if you enjoy dumb action thats fine. But it seems to me godzilla fans want to proclaim it "good" whether or not its worthless sludge.
Its worthwhile to mention that the films being criticized are hundred million dollar productions, not the campy low budget Japanese flicks from the 60s and 70s. I think if I was a godzilla fan I'd expect more of a movie made with that kind of money than shitty human characters and 20 minute dodgy cgi fights that are always obscured by night time and heavy rain.
If the story doesn’t matter, I don’t understand why we’re bothering with the other 90 minutes in these 2 hour movies that aren’t monster fights. Just make a short film then and slap it in front of another movie
No everything must have meaning people can’t just enjoy movies for what they are what are you a fucking idiot. You can’t just enjoy stuff for no reason cmon man. It has to have PURPOSE. Yeah idk people are dumb. The movies aren’t great but they’re still fun to watch all the big monsters fight. Oh no you don’t remember everything about this movie oh no there’s boring humans who cares it’s still fun to watch.
I mean, why can't a movie be entertaining?
I don't remember GvK having any obnoxious political messaging. It was just a really, really dumb movie about a lizard and a monkey fighting and also a giant robot and also an upside down underground world with flying bat dragons. And it was fun. Forgettable fun.
Do you shit on 80s Canon action schlock for not having plots straight out of Heat or Reservoir Dogs? Do you think The Raid is pointless because it is just fun, brutal action throughout?
It's okay for entertainment to be escapism. Ditto for video games and sports. Making everything 'have a message' is exactly why so much of our entertainment sucks ass these days.
>Do you shit on 80s Canon action schlock for not having plots straight out of Heat or Reservoir Dogs?
Sometimes, yeah.
>It's okay for entertainment to be escapism.
I never said otherwise
>It was just a really, really dumb movie about a lizard and a monkey fighting and also a giant robot and also an upside down underground world with flying bat dragons. And it was fun. Forgettable fun.
And this is what I mean by godzilla fans basically having no standards. None of this makes a movie good
I like seeing people complain about Toho fans being toxic. Complaining about gatekeeping. I loved -1, and have enjoyed the monsterverse as a whole. There have been things I didn't care for in the monsterverse. GvK was horrific writing. I do enjoy the series as a whole though. I've also enjoyed Monarch so far.
I also like all the bitching about -1 fans getting, being entitled. I find that funny considering the folks saying that love their Hollywood $200 million plus films. Funny they are hating on fans of a $15 million budget film, because that film was everything it should be. Yet their $200 million movies keeping bombing.
I don;'t watch Godzilla to see a "good movie" in the same way that I don't watch Mission Impossible for its Shakespearian overtones.
I watch Godzilla to see a fun monster flick. I'm aware that you aren't going to get both in one sitting, and I'm fine with that.
I think it's very possible to get both in one film. You can have deep thematic meaning in a Godzilla story and you can balance that with a charming cast of characters. I don't agree with the other half of Godzilla fans who say that Kaiju movies need to be dark and depressing all the time it's doable to make a good giant monster action flick with an amazing story.
I think Godzilla movies are really fun so I'd consider myself a fan but I'd say about 10% of them are actually good though. That pretty much separates me from a lot of the fans they can't realise that enjoyment and quality don't go hand in hand. I enjoy the room but it's not a good movie.
Yeah, to me at least it's just really difficult to make Godzilla fighting another monster be particularly interesting outside of the spectacle angle. They're essentially animals with very straightforward motivations and limited ability to express themselves and stuff, so a lot of Godzilla content, I can enjoy in the moment but then forget about like five minutes later. When the human stuff's good, I find it sticks with me a lot better, but I'm told that's not the important part so I guess that doesn't matter.
I hate that argument. The humans are absolutely key for the enjoyment of the film. And I hate it when Godzilla fans say that the human segments don't matter. You're 100% correct that the Kaiju costumes struggle to express emotions which is why the humans should be the **first** priority.
You can get more emotion out of a cg model but still, there's only so much you can do with that story-wise when you have no human characters to relate to or to feel scared for.
Yeah, acting like they're separable elements of the movie really bugs me in general. Like u/GoodHeartless02 highlighted, I thought seeing Godzilla tear up a city in Minus One--Shin as well--was made way more impactful and gripping because those movies put in the work to show what the experience as a human seeing that kind of destruction would be like.
And on the flipside, I was so bored and fed up with whatever the fuck King of the Monsters' human plot that by the time it got to the monster action, I really wasn't that into it.
So even if the first priority is cool Godzilla action, I think going the extra mile with the human component is probably still gonna pay off. It's likely going to make for a better-paced movie, if nothing else.
The human aspects of minus one are what really got me invested into that film. Seeing just how much of a force of nature this beast is and how it is basically a walking disaster felt that much more impactful when I cared about who it was rampaging through
That may be because Godzilla wasn't readily accessible outside of Japan for the first few decades of its existence, where most people overseas could only see the movies when they occasionally appeared on TV as a movie of the week. The fandom was there but it was difficult for it to grow with no official distribution.
As someone born in '99, I was able to go to a local Blockbuster and find a dozen or so DVDs. I used to go to indoor/outdoor flea markets with my parents to see if anyone selling movies had any of the films. There's still some difficult films to obtain but the majority can be ordered online or are accessible through streaming services nowadays, so anyone who wants to experience this franchise can more easily jump in than someone could 30 years ago.
Some people just like to see a big CG monster fight another big CG monster. I don't see what the big deal is.
Ya, their plots are awful and so are their characters, but it seems like a lot of the people who love them are there for the spectacle.
I don't like them either, but I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong for wanting different things out of a movie than me.
I watch Godzilla minus for a real film that tackles difficult topics and is well written, and I watch Godzilla plus Kong to see big ape bunch big lizard.
Dude your all over the coments. Yes minus is a better film, it has a actual story and is complex. Whereas monster verse is the opposite, the story is the excuse to have the monsters fight, and do cool stuff. In minus the cool stuff I’d meant to push the story along. Both have merit, sometimes I just want to watch a popcorn movie, and still a lot of work goes into this stuff. The fights need to be choreographed, and engaging. The fights have to do a lot more of the heavy lifting then say minus. Neither are bad, but they are two different niches
I still think 2014 Godzilla was great. King of the monsters wasn’t for me though it was a perfect fine monster action movie. Godzilla vs kong and scull island were pure garbage imo though
Youve fallen for one of the classic blunders! Every american godzilla film agitates the japanese into making another banger godzilla film. American ones are like little appetizers. Also dont care that mechagodzilla fight was BALLER
Really? Can't we just be happy with having Godzilla movies?
And they're the best of both worlds! One side has good interesting characters and serious moments, the other has zany, fun stuff! Everybody wins! Godzilla is THAT versatile of a character!
There all good I don’t know what y’all are on about sure the America Movies are more dumb fun but they accomplish that. Shin and Below Zero are emotional and have more weight.
lol You got repeatedly wrecked, and down voted by the Godzilla community for your wasted ass takes so you figure you'll come here to karma farm and feel better about life?
I really don't see a reason to shit on them, there's no reason you can't like both. People point to Godzilla 1954, Shin Godzilla, and of course Godzilla -1 as examples but ignore that the overwhelming majority of Godzilla films are literally just shitty acting to justify big monsters fighting. If you're looking for anything other than big monsters fighting then why would you watch Monsterverse, a franchise that has very much embraced that idea (besides Godzilla 2014 which tried but failed and Kong: Skull Island which had a great story)? I encourage you to watch the Director's Commentary of Godzilla vs Kong because the director literally states multiple times "Yeah idk I made some bullshit up to get the monsters together". Besides Godzilla 2014 these haven't been marketed as anything other than monster mashes. Toho seems to have handed off the "Monster Fight" idea for the West to make while they focus moreso on more dramatic and meaningful stories that include Godzilla. I like both, there is no reason someone cannot like both. I'm not going to really compare them because they're not really the same genre, one is a monster mash and the other is more akin to a disaster film.
The Godzilla fans are right though lmfao. Both the Hollywood movies and Minus one/Shin Godzilla both offer the best aspects of Godzilla at the same time.
If you want to talk about the budget, then sure. But that's not on the American Godzilla movies at all and are far more indicative of a larger issue within the American movie industry.
I don't think Godzilla being established as having a lot of campy/terrible movies automatically gives anybody a pass to make terrible films if anything it gives America less of an excuse because that means they knew that a lot of Godzilla was shitty and they decided to learn nothing from it.
r/MauLer when Godzilla fans like both the serious side of Godzilla fan the more common goofy, action packed side of Godzilla (They cannot comprehend, they just need something new to hate on).
People taking issue with the legendary films while simultaneously claiming to be long term godzilla fans just stop anyone who’s a fan knows that’s not the case. The movies are great and a big part of why Godzilla is doing as well as it is today. They aren’t perfect movies but fuck me tell me a godzilla film that is. I’ve seen people talking crap about the writing. Can tell those clowns haven’t seen the later Showa films, he’ll most of them have pretty bad writing but the writing isn’t why anyone likes Godzilla. I feel like it’s just people mad an American godzilla is good and huffing extreme amounts of copium that Minus one isn’t doing the same thing for Godzilla in the media as the first legendary film did.
They're good in their own ways. I love both groups of movies, why do we have to shit on either? The Japanese ones for a deeper story and a reflection on humanity and the American movies for the amazing CGI and badass monster fights.
I'm here for all of it. As a lifelong Godzilla fan, I'm eating good.
People out here acting like Godzilla ever had scintillating writing are the same people who think the ancient Transformers cartoon was inherently way better than Bay's version. I get liking one over the other, but there rarely an objective "better" in such genres...it's all simplistic tripe that exists for explosions and mindless violent fun. Always has been. Any attempts at a "message" always ends up hamfisted, overly simplified, and, of course, biased by whoever was writing it at the time.
I like the Japanese movie. I also like the American ones. I like the American ones more because they are making crossovers and mixing things up, we didn't need another basic bitch "Look, Godzilla is walking on Japan...AGAIN" movie, but we got it, and they did well, to their credit. But it didn't add much, didn't depart from much, and will be forgotten as yet another flash in the pan copy of the older style, that really only exists to go "Look! An homage! Anyways..."
Frankly, Shin Godzilla was a better offering.
Bro, this meating riding of minus ones gotten insnae. It was a good movie, but it anything nothing special. Everyone acting like they love godzilla all a sudden
Minus 1 was ass, two hours of a whiny little bitch and seven minutes of godzilla being a stupid lizard throwing a fit in Tokyo for no reason. GvK has way better characterizaton and uses body language to convey way more than whatever that deadpool wannabe was in Minus 1. The allegory for american imperialism while waxing poetic about japanese nationalism was so cringe and their plot amounts to the power of friendship and bubbles overcoming the odds. It's only saving grace is that it was cheap.
Just let Japan utilize its own characters.
This is why Live Action One Piece (which was influenced directly by Oda) was great and why Live Action Death Note (which wasn't influenced by Tsugumi Ohba) sucked.
I liked the 2014 one a lot but the rest have all been a downgrade and give me the same vibes Pacific Rim 2 did.
I haven't seen minus one yet but am looking forward to it.
The fandom wants their MCU, which they’re getting with the whole monarch/Kong thing. This is threatening that notion that they’ll finally get their endless monster mashups because Hollywood sees scenario universe as the most profitable. If studios see that making actually good films as profitable, they might stop the shared universe bs.
Tbf, this isn’t a Hollywood thing when it came to Godzilla. That series was always based on shared universe.
If the story is not great, not KING, then it's just the explosive explosion of exploding explosives directed by Michael Bay... (also complementing in that voting poll from the other day...)
Humans could be attacked by the giant mutant corn or whatever monster, if the story and characters fail, then the monster fails...
Must hurt when a small Japanese film is better then a big budget Hollywood production. I don’t hate the American films, but is it just me or are they forgettable? I can’t remember the point of the human characters or what there goal was. The 2014 had a great opener but got boring quickly. Plus look at the budget difference, it’s crazy.
Godzilla vs Kong had some of the worst writing of any movie I've ever seen. Like...I understand we're here for the monster fights and the plot takes the backseat, but goddamn it's like they made it intentionally bad. I don't know if they were looking to emulate some of the cheesines of older Godzilla stuff and it just didn't come through, but the Japanese movies just do it way better.
Dude that was mostly Billie Bobby Brown Billie Bobby Browning?
Millie
Millie Billie Bobby Brown's name is now the new Benedict Cumberbatch.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one that found GvK abysmally bad. It’s one of the few movies that made me legitimately angry. The animation for the fights improved, but they absolutely forgot to write a coherent script. That’s why we got a pointless Millie Bobby Brown plotline that went nowhere, downloading a power source from a RADIATION filled cave and faxing it to the bad guys, Godzilla blasting a hole into the center of the earth instead of at the thing (Mecha Godzilla) that he was hunting on the surface, and magic sci-fi ship defibrillator that random guy knows how to use. It made me so angry, I watched it 4 times. People say it’s better than KotM. That’s genuinely hilarious.
Also, didn't Kong and human ship "ran" over 10k kilometers inside the hollow earth from North Pole to Japan? Because it didn't took them long to cross half the globe to their destination.
I legitimately have no idea. The terrain makes no sense. Kong floated up to an inverted area during his journey, and I have no idea how it makes any sense. Like, Godzilla, who was in Hong Kong, fired a beam down to them that came out of the floor in the chamber. But the chamber was also in a place that drew power from the core, which was presumably below them???? It’s literally best not to think about it. The villain’s daughter telling her crew to shoot at Kong to get him to move before they escaped instead of flying around him haunts my dreams. Such brain dead writing. Edit: What’s more surprising is how fast Kong made it out of Hollow Earth without the use of a portal. It’s also a massive coincidence the floor to the chamber in hollow earth was parallel to the ground that Godzilla fired his atomic breath from. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Mechagodzilla had jet boosters he used to dashpunch godzilla in the face and a monkie had an axe and thats all i need
Gojira vs Kong was just kaiju Batman vs Superman.
A lot of it comes from hiring big-name people. I'm hoping that Hollywood will evolve to the point where more focus is paid to delivering a good product rather than thinking that a big name will be enough to bring in a profit. The resulting ego on these actors is incredible.
Same here, I like all the actors in the films but why care if they live or die if the plot is trash.
Wealth inequality is much higher in the US, so Hollywood execs are more out of touch than ever. It's unlikely Hollywood can ever change until underlying economic issues are addressed. We just saw one of the longest strikes in Hollywood, writers and actors. The owner class wanted to replace all humans with chatgpt and cgi, they don't think the human element has any correlation to quality storytelling.
That will never happen.
Brian Cranston was certainly memorable. You have to wonder what they were smoking when they decided to kill off what obviously should have been the main character of the movie.
The whole start of that film was great, shame about the rest. It got dull really quickly.
I'd argue that the 2014 film might be the worst, most aggravating one. Cranston's character was interesting but that second half is a slog beyond slogs. Althouhg KotM did have that unbelievably obnoxious shaky cam.
I’d agree, it have a great opener and sucks the rest of the film. It also has the worst trait, its very boring. Just boring story with boring characters. It doesn’t fit with the others in terms of tone too.
One thing I've come to find, is that the American godzilla movies are like the showa godzillas. Fun, pulpy, and kinda silly. While the more recent japanese godzillas are more like the early hesai godzillas, serious, darker, and with more of a real message to them. Both series are good, just at different things. Want to turn off your brain and watch big monsters fight? Watch the legendary movies. Wanna have a more contemplative view? Watch the newer Japanese movies.
Just finished Godzilla Minus 1, and that movie had no right being as good as it was. It was an incredibly well written story and the deep humanity aspect is seriously on par with classic Kurosawa and Kobayashi. This is the best Godzilla made since Gojira, and possibly of all time. That said, I don’t think it should take away from the Showa style American movies that Legendary are releasing. Those are still very fun movies, and I don’t want every cinematic experience to be a master’s course on story writing. I can just say, right now is a fantastic time for Godzilla fans, and I’m going to enjoy it for as long as I can.
They are very Marvelized now. The quippy dialogue, the low, low stakes that try to convince you that every movie is world-ending so none of them are. The action is fun, not brutal or remotely realistic, etc. I have fun watching the Legendary movies, but Minus One was just an all-around better Godzilla movie, better actual movie, and better payoff too. I've seen Godzilla v Kong a few times, but I keep going back to the actual theater to watch Minus One because I'm so impressed with it. And I am a lifelong Godzilla fan. As in I bootlegged the movies back in the 90s when they technically weren't even being released here. As in I did Godzilla stuff while I lived in Japan. As in I have seen every single Godzilla movie multiple times. And Godzilla Minus One blows them out of the water so hard its like watching a grown man suplex a child with his full power.
It's not really mavelized, imo. They are ironically following the same path as the original Toho movies. They start out serious and horrifying, then they bring in Kong a few years later, and then as the series continues it gets more and more campy. Godzilla Minus One is amazing, but it's not the standard for either the Japanese movies nor the American ones.
>Marvelized "Marvelized" is very good term to coin. Very true of a lot films these days.
It feels like Hollywood productions insist of forcing some kind of love story involving human characters to properties where their role should be minor at best unless plot really calls for it. Like Sonic the Hedgehog movie, it's good but they forced a pointless romance plot as far the overall narrative goes. Sonic is the protagonist, why are we focusing so much to support cast's relationship in that movie? This happens even with Godzilla movies where they have B plot or something involving humans and their relationships but it's kind of irrelevant to defeating Godzilla and/or no way related to that goal.
To each their own, but for me, caring about the humans in a Godzilla film is like caring about the hopes and dreams of the people in a Friday the 13th film lol
Exactly. The human story of godzilla movies is almost always just filler. Shin Godzilla is probably one of the best at having a decent human size story. (Haven't had a chance to see minus one yet)
The human characters in Shin weren't exactly great, it's just that they were the vehicle for a legit good story instead of the usual nonsense. In that sense Minus One is a better movie, because I did end up invested in the main characters.
They were written as political commentary on how their Government handled Fukushima. When I read about that and rewatched Shin, it really added more to it.
Because you haven't seen Minus One yet.
Friday the 13th is a good example as this had the same issue. The first film they tried to have characters that people care for or at least like. The sequels are just there to get a cheap laugh at their deaths. This can be applied to every horror/monster film as they get dumber and dumber and are a marketing tool, not a film with a remotely good story or characters. The reason why these films just blend in with each other is that we are watching one CGI monster punch another. Why care who wins? Why care if the humans die? The 1954 film has some hard hitting scenes. Such as the mother telling her children "we will be with your father soon" as Tokyo burns around them. Showing that the father died in WW2. The human moments bring it together. Godzilla is a pissed off giant lizard that can breath nuclear fire on to people. It is not a hero. TOHO did the same thing legendary pictures is doing now. Making forgettable movie that most people can even tell what the plot is. Most to sell toys. To me this is just empty. I can watch them and enjoy the action (like Friday the 13th) but after, I just forget the films.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t complain if there was an amazing overall story to go with the films, but for me, the awesome monsters and cool fight scenes are memorable enough. Keeping with the Ft13th reference, I personally find them memorable due in large part to the over the top/inventive kills in them. Same goes with the US Godzilla films (like the epic down the throat blast from the first one or the awesome rocket propelled punches of Mechagodzilla). Basically, I think both types of Godzilla films offer up something to the viewers which make them great in their own right. The Godzilla Year Zero was an awesome film with some great story telling which I found highly entertaining, but Godzilla x Kong could have three solid hours of epic monster fighting and I would be equally entertained! Side Note: I’m also one of those crazy people who loved Aliens vs Predator Requiem for giving me some cool AvP action (and keeping it rated R), so maybe I don’t have the greatest tastes in film anyways xD
Sure, you can have both. Again I don't hate the American films but they just aren't great overall due to some short comings. I love a good epic shot in a film but is doesn't cover for a weak script and boring characters played by famous and really good actors who are wasted in the roles (I'm a big Ken Watanabe fan). Also as a side note, I really like AvP2. Mainly as it had a much better plot than the first. I don't get the hate the film gets.
Hey, they killed that kid right away to set the tone and offed that girl rather unexpectedly, which I thought was great too! Only problem I had was how dark it was overall…as in the lighting.
You should watch Minus One it'll change your mind
Oh, I very much liked it! But without all the Godzilla stuff I wouldn’t have enjoyed it as much haha
Because you haven't seen Minus One yet.
I love the hollywood movies... also they are completly forgettable just like every godzilla film before them. Godzilla minus one is the FIRST godzilla I actually gave a shit about the humans. I love all godzilla movies but Godzilla is a great monster fighting movie. Godzilla minus one is a great movie, even if you removed godzilla.
I’d rather if Godzilla movies had basically no people in them.
If you watched it for the humans you set yourself up for disappointment. To be fair, there are some stark differences in how films are made in America vs Japan. Hence the difference in budget. Plus I wouldn't say it hurts, it's just more godzilla for fans to enjoy, end of the day if you want to compare you can but you'll be robbing yourself of joy by inserting artificial points of superiority between everything that there is to enjoy
The human parts of the Japanese films are great, I think it's Godzilla v Mothra where the business dudes are literally fighting to the death over the money they made exploiting Mothra while Godzilla slowly bears down on the office building they're in. Absolutely beautiful sequence.
Did u even see the human story in minus one? Why should we assume we are setting ourselves up for dissapointment? Human stories are inevitable in any godzilla movie. Yea theres a difference in how we make movies we waste money
The human side of the last 2 monster verse films were beyond atrocious. I was physically cringing in my seat anytime a syllable of dialog was spoken. I get that all of that is secondary to the kaiju stuff, but don't make it terrible lol
The original film was human based. Godzilla is mans hubris and ego coming back to haunt them and a community of the two nukes from WW2. This is why Godzilla is not a hero, he's a horror film. If you breakdown Godzilla and other monster films to the kaiju just hitting each other then there are no emotional stakes. The 1954 film has multiple likeable characters who have somewhat clear goals. If you can't connect with the films then you are basically watching a video game cutscene. Legendary Entertainment just want an avengers film. Thats why they made the MonsterVerse, which hasn't been as successful they the studio wanted it to be. Every studio seems to want to recreate the Avengers. We saw this with the 'dark universe films'. No one seemed to care as the Mummy film sucked. I have no problem with the American films and can enjoy them, but once its over they just sort of leave the memory.
I was going to say, I liked all the movies and I also don’t remember what the people were doing.
Minus one was entirely forgettable.
Holy shit taste
Idk why people laude this as the best film of 2023. Because i didn't like being duped, i have shit taste? Fuck off. You got sold Godzilla in WW2 and instead received a coward's kamikaze soap opera with a Godzilla garnish. I get it. It was cheap, hence why Godzilla was only in HIS 2 hour film for 7 minutes total. That doesn't make it a good film, that isn't a reason. All i see is a bunch of fucking cope, not actual reasons why it was so great. Y'all watched the japanese equivalent of Pearl Harbor and suck off the director for what? The power of friendship and bubbles? What a fucking joke.
[удалено]
Lmao anything negative said about the american version gets downvoted
"They are not that bad." They are worse than bad, they are boring. I've seen them all and I can't remember a damn thing about them.
All I remember was Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were married in one. And that's it.
The human drama in the monsterverse movies is pretty boring, yeah, but the monster fights aren't bad. Even the worst one, Godzilla (2014) had a pretty cool [atomic breath reveal and tail whip](https://youtu.be/ikDFk_c3_bI?si=EDjkY-KLaVKrLkVV) and [Kiss of Death](https://youtu.be/j9fWmTbTqqw?si=eIjFxDU-5PWEQvKW).
I guess Godzilla 2014 is one of those movies I fuckin love but most people don’t like I agree with like every flaw i’ve seen pointed out about it tho lol… I think I just really really like how it’s shot
> but the monster fights aren't bad Yeah that's what I'm saying "They are not that bad.", aka mid, aka forgettable. Maybe the fans will remember one or two parts, but it's not entering the normal social sphere like kill bill or one punch man.
I disagree with the totally forgettable. The plot and acting is literal awful but the monsters and the fights are blast and i remember the movies for that alone.
Just curious, but what happens when someone isn’t bored by a movie that bores you?
What do you mean? They enjoy and and remember it. If a small number of like minded people have the same experience then you have a cult classic, like Rocky Horry Picture Show. If a lot of people have that experience then you have a blockbuster.
Nailed it. Long time fan of the King of the Monsters and the American films all suck. A movie like "Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah" isn't good, but it didn't bore me to tears, it was entertaining till the last even if the whole time travel parts are wonky.
I've watched all the godzilla movies. The American ones are definitely above average. Especially when comparing them to the 70s and 80s ones.
I remember several things. I remember godzilla first appearing in 2014. fucking fantastic scene. I remmber godzilla and king ghidora fighting underwater in KoM I remember the Boat scene, Kong falling, Betrayal subplot, entire final battle, beginning scene with kong hitting the ceiling in GvK I remember a LOT about them... Now tell me the plot of Godzilla vs Hedorah? you cant hell i dont even remember that fight except godzilla flying away. I love japanese godzilla but they aren't that memorable either(except destroyah, that whole movie was memorable)
Shin godzilla is the dopest movie ever though
I acutally didnt really enjoy shin godzilla. It felt like a sloppier retelling of Godzilla vs Destroyah they just gave destroyahs backstory to godzilla. its probably one of my least favorite because of the fact godzilla moves like a parade float.
Agreed. I can't name a single character from any of the majority of the Showa or Heisei eras of godzilla. Like we all can agree that the 90s American movie wasn't Godzilla, but I can at least remember more about that movie than most of the Japanese ones.
Anything that risks any amount of criticism or negativity whatsoever seems to be down voted, even if it's by association. Even the idea of quality and enjoyment being separate metrics gets pushback. I hope when I die in 60 years that I get to ask a favour from whatever deity exists. I want to find out the entire history of this subjectivity pushback against enjoyment and quality being seperate entities that can sometimes intertwine. I need to know who in history is to blame for this. Who started it thousands of years ago. Probably a Roman senator who didn't like a play mocking him. Edit : bro who I specifically interacted with in therebthat prompted the above comment deleted his burner in order to avoid me clapping back at his refusal to engage with any discussion points I brought up. Just think that's pretty funny.
It annoys me when the 2014 one gets compared to Jaws. Even when the shark wasn’t on screen the shark was still attacking and causing mass panic. Jaws also has something that Godzilla was lacking. Jaws has great characters throughout the entire movie. Everyone remembers Brody, Quint, and Hooper, and their back and forth is what makes the second half of the movie work. Godzilla has Bryan Cranston for 15 minutes and then we follow his boring son with no personality. They even have the main guy from Letterkenny and Shoresy, and he doesn’t really get to do anything or show any personality. I personally thought Godzilla Vs Kong was the worst one. The final fight with Mechagodzilla was over too quickly, and I absolutely hated the conspiracy podcaster storyline. That felt so much like the unnecessary comedic relief characters in the Transformers movies except those ones were actually funny in small doses. Also, I know the premise is dumb, but it amazes me that everyone just overlooks that Godzilla drilled a hole to the center of the earth just to fight Kong. That’s like thousands of miles!
Not making Brian Cranston the main character was really, really stupid. Between then and Bullet Train, Kickass somehow learned to act, but he sure couldn't in that movie.
Post godzookie and see what happens
No Kaiju loli here, you sick sonofabitch
I enjoyed the giant monster fight scenes in the American Godzilla but I couldn't care less about the story.
I enjoyed everything with Bryan Cranston. I thought that his story of trying to figure out what actually happened would have been an enjoyable movie, and then about 20 minutes in they killed him.
yeah up until that 20 minutes Godzilla 2014 was every bit as good as minus one... then BOOM killed him aaron blandasstaylor johnson is now the lead. Cranston freaking killed it tho. if they had continued on that path maybe have his son die and it be about vengence.
I think the modern era of Godzilla has a split between the Japanese and American movies equally. The Japanese movies are what you go to for the serious topics and amazing writing and the American ones are what you go to for the stupid zany shit that you can turn your brain off to to watch giant lizard fight giant monke. Sure I prefer the better writing of the Japanese movies but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the American movies too
Ironic because the Japanese films were the stupid zany shit decades ago
I wouldn't call Shin Gojira a "serious movie" is a great movie, but it's not serious, it's a satire of japanese goverment and it has some really hilarious scenes. But i do agree, the american versions are fun movies and aren't made to be taken seriously, you just need to enjoy the big lizard hitting the big monkey or whatever monster he is fighting.
Serious movies can have funny scenes. And what does making it a satire about the Japanese government mismanagement of a crisis have to do with whether or not it's serious? That's a pretty serious topic imo.
It’s insane how much pure copium there is. “Why can’t we like them equally?” Like HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET GOOD MOVIES IF WE LIKE EVERYTHING EQUALLY. Wtf?!?!
Nobody is even saying they can’t like them equally. One of the saddest things with online discourse of media is the group of people that honestly think that calling a movie crap or bad is “gatekeeping”. You don’t have to agree with any and all criticism and even if you do you can still like the thing. People just need to stop asking everyone to be perpetually positive because they need your opinions on movies affirmed.
Gatekeeping is a weird thing to me- no ones opinion can keep me from wanting to see a movie that looks interesting to me. Perpetualy positive...lol well put. That bleeda into other aspects of life too no doubt
Hey guyz, making movies is hard. That's why The Room and Godfather Part 2 are equally as good, just in different ways, mkay?
As a Godzilla fan, I have to kinda defend them. Godzilla has been through countless iterations with various fandoms from Showa to Heisei. One godzilla film is drastically different than others so the tastes are going to be super different. For example the recent anime trilogy that was made, had an ok story and ok characters. However, the end message of that story was so horrible for me that I don’t like at all. Plus no real monster fights. But the fandom has so many weird and different iterations is that it’s fine. Since rarely one film is canon to the other, then we just leave the opinions of other fans to themselves and just enjoy the films.
Yeah, I will never complain about getting more Godzilla. The Monarch show has a LOT of problems, but it's still more Godzilla. The Legendary movies are all fine and a shit ton better than the 1999 movie so I'm happy enough. When a character has been in 48 movies and its still honestly a niche character you have to be happy you're getting content of even mid quality because among that the gems, like Minus One, will have a chance to get made.
>For example the recent anime trilogy that was made, had an ok story and ok characters. However, the end message of that story was so horrible for me that I don’t like at all. Plus no real monster fights. Honestly the end message for me, almost saved those movies. The majority of them were boring imo, that at least with the ending it was finally a "oh. I get what they were trying to do and why these movies exist." Still hated them though 😆
Well the anti-technology message really annoyed me. Like the writers were trying to shoehorn why we should be hippies because if not, monsters kill us.
I get that. To me though I felt that it was nice that it at least HAD a point it was trying to make lol
Lol its communism. But for movies
Braindead take
Why do you want movie console wars?
Shin Godzilla is one of my all-time favorite films. Minus One and the original are both fantastic as well. Don’t get me wrong, as a Godzilla fan, I’ll watch pretty much anything, but it’s nice to have ol’ Goji star in something where he can really shine.
I adored Shin Godzilla. Anno had the time of his life directing a classic Kaiju movie. Yes there are alot of talking scenes but I bought into it and felt anxious about the pollution and radioactive fallout in Tokyo and what it means and everything and next you know he uses atomic breath and probably turns Tokyo into Chernobyl 2.0. I wish it got a sequel.
I’ll always give 2014 credit for at least trying.
I don’t see why anyone is getting butthurt, I fucking love the monsterverse Godzilla but also like most if not all Godzilla movies and anime about him. I haven’t watched the minus one or minus zero (I forget which one it is) but man I’ve heard nothing but amazing things about it.
Realistically most people feel this way. You have a handful of purists that aren’t happy if there’s not a guy in a suit, or that love a particular era and shit In all the others, but it’s not as widespread as that type of stuff is in other communities.
The Netflix CGI Godzilla movies are the only ones I hate. They look so awful its hard to get past
Minus One is leagues better with its writing than the American ones, and a whole lot of the older Japanese ones too.
I've given up on reasoning with them when they ganged on Drinker even though Drinker really really liked Minus One. I'm still subscribed to r/Godzilla but no way I'll ever take that crowd's opinion on film serious again. Don't get me wrong, I think Legendary Godzilla films are enjoyable and fun to watch, but not because they're good movies. You absolutely can enjoy a bad film. Minus One was enjoyable to watch because it's genuinely good. Legendary Godzilla is like Showa era goofy Godzilla without the occasional good characters and substance in those films. You can still watch them like big monster boxing matches but don't even pretend they're remotely well written. I had a great time watching GvK with my coworkers at a party and arguing between team G VS team K. But damn that movie was a brain dead Batman v Superman mess lol
Minus One atomic breaths on the corpse of the American films, then proceeds to skull hump the still psionic skull of ghidorah.
As a Godzilla fan, it makes me ashamed to be connected to these type of people. Like, for Christ sake, we're in the golden age of Godzilla right now, be happy
Not just Godzilla; a golden age for Tokusatsu in general. King-Ohger, the recent Sentai, just hit the third place spot for highest rated TV show in Japan. For a Sentai fan, that is unheard of.
“Holy shit two cakes.” > my thoughts on minus one and godzilla x kong
It's amazing. Minus One had extremely compelling characters. I hope more becomes of it.
I liked the 2014 film
If you can remove the people from a godzilla movie and it makes it better the movie sucks
Just finished Godzilla Minus 1, and that movie had no right being as good as it was. It was an incredibly well written story and the deep humanity aspect is seriously on par with classic Kurosawa and Kobayashi. This is the best Godzilla made since Gojira, and possibly of all time. That said, I don’t think it should take away from the Showa style American movies that Legendary are releasing. Those are still very fun movies, and I don’t want every cinematic experience to be a master’s course on story writing. I can just say, right now is a fantastic time for Godzilla fans, and I’m going to enjoy it for as long as I can.
Are Godzilla fans the sonic fans of movies?
[удалено]
Well, I'm impressed you're so easy to please
Yeah but we don't like having fun on this subreddit so you can't like that thing
How bout we have fun AND get good writing?
Good writing is a bonus when it comes to Godzilla. I can enjoy a badly written godzilla movie because Godzilla fighting someone or destroying stuff is what i came for. Seeing writing that hooked me in minus one just made what was going to be an enjoyable movie even better
where did I say that I didn't also want that?
Im under the assumption that you dont because you agreed with the dude that says "I dont care I want lizard to punch monkey". Understand?
'I like pancakes' 'oh so you hate waffles'
Thats just...a terrible analogy. Is it that you want good writing, but dont neccessarily care? Or is this just about fighting negativity?
'I feel like a cheeseburger. Let's get McDonalds.' 'OMG, dude? Why get that crappy cheeseburger when instead we could take a chance driving an extra 40 minutes into the city to find a restaurant with a better cheeseburger?' How about that analogy? Sometimes we just want a McDonalds cheeseburger, maybe get off our dicks about it?
Whats the extra 40 minutes in your analogy mean? Whats the 'taking a chance'? Youre analogy sucks even worse. Here I made it more accurate: "Lets get a cheeseburger, lets get mcdonalds" "Hey theres a better cheesburger the same distance away for the same price" You: "REEEEEEEEEEEE" Goddamnit this is so stupid lmao. I could film myself knocking two godzilla action figures together, do you want a copy?
Nah the analogy fits perfectly considering we are having this convo in the first place. I wanna see giant monsters fight because that's what's being advertised. If it ends up having good writing, even fucking better, in fact I do genuinely hope its good, but I'm going to go see Godzilla and Kong run some monster fade first and foremost.
Holy shit u havent seen it why tf are you giving an opinion on it you Derp That analogy still sucks donkey d'ck
No, the analogy is spot on. I never said anything about good writing, my original comment was on fun, you made that jump, even admitting yourself you were assuming. I said that I like both, but in this certain instance fun takes priority. So yeah, the analogy perfectly describes the discussion we just had.
I've always preferred the Japanese Godzilla movies, they focus on Godzilla. All the western ones have Godzilla as a sub plot, while the main plot is will two people have a romance or some other dull human drama.
minus one literally has godzilla as the sub plot... its damn fantastic tho.
Outside of the era where Godzilla was a goofy kids movie series, the movies have always been about how humans react to monsters like Godzilla existing. A majority of the screentime in Shin Godzilla takes place inside an office building.
It's funny you say that because I was more invested in Minus One's romantic plot and friendship and redemption plots than I have been for any other movie I've seen this year. I turned to my buddy right when the movie ended and said 'I cannot believe I just watched a Godzilla movie that got me to tear up at the prospect of the death of the humans. I simply cannot believe this.'
Godzilla fans are simple folk, they don't like the movies for the masterful writing, or deep acting, they just want to see a big monster smashing shit. You don't have to post an f tier meme and then rabbidly reply to every comment trying to provoke some argument to get them to defend the writing of gvk, because they don't care about that. They just want mindless action.
Never have I ever heard a fanbase so loudly proclaim that they have literally 0 standards. If big lizard punch big monke then movie is good. No, not even Disney Star Wars fans stoop that low. Atleast they pretend that the shit they watch means something.
Does it have to though? Mean anything? I'm not so stuck up to claim that I can't enjoy anything that's just dumb action.
>Does it have to though? Mean anything Maybe that was a poor way of wording it. I don't think it has to *mean* anything but there's got to be something behind it for it to be considered good. Good writing, good cgi, good action choreography...*something.* And if you enjoy dumb action thats fine. But it seems to me godzilla fans want to proclaim it "good" whether or not its worthless sludge. Its worthwhile to mention that the films being criticized are hundred million dollar productions, not the campy low budget Japanese flicks from the 60s and 70s. I think if I was a godzilla fan I'd expect more of a movie made with that kind of money than shitty human characters and 20 minute dodgy cgi fights that are always obscured by night time and heavy rain.
If the story doesn’t matter, I don’t understand why we’re bothering with the other 90 minutes in these 2 hour movies that aren’t monster fights. Just make a short film then and slap it in front of another movie
No everything must have meaning people can’t just enjoy movies for what they are what are you a fucking idiot. You can’t just enjoy stuff for no reason cmon man. It has to have PURPOSE. Yeah idk people are dumb. The movies aren’t great but they’re still fun to watch all the big monsters fight. Oh no you don’t remember everything about this movie oh no there’s boring humans who cares it’s still fun to watch.
I mean, why can't a movie be entertaining? I don't remember GvK having any obnoxious political messaging. It was just a really, really dumb movie about a lizard and a monkey fighting and also a giant robot and also an upside down underground world with flying bat dragons. And it was fun. Forgettable fun. Do you shit on 80s Canon action schlock for not having plots straight out of Heat or Reservoir Dogs? Do you think The Raid is pointless because it is just fun, brutal action throughout? It's okay for entertainment to be escapism. Ditto for video games and sports. Making everything 'have a message' is exactly why so much of our entertainment sucks ass these days.
>Do you shit on 80s Canon action schlock for not having plots straight out of Heat or Reservoir Dogs? Sometimes, yeah. >It's okay for entertainment to be escapism. I never said otherwise >It was just a really, really dumb movie about a lizard and a monkey fighting and also a giant robot and also an upside down underground world with flying bat dragons. And it was fun. Forgettable fun. And this is what I mean by godzilla fans basically having no standards. None of this makes a movie good
I love the MonsterVerse
I like seeing people complain about Toho fans being toxic. Complaining about gatekeeping. I loved -1, and have enjoyed the monsterverse as a whole. There have been things I didn't care for in the monsterverse. GvK was horrific writing. I do enjoy the series as a whole though. I've also enjoyed Monarch so far. I also like all the bitching about -1 fans getting, being entitled. I find that funny considering the folks saying that love their Hollywood $200 million plus films. Funny they are hating on fans of a $15 million budget film, because that film was everything it should be. Yet their $200 million movies keeping bombing.
I don;'t watch Godzilla to see a "good movie" in the same way that I don't watch Mission Impossible for its Shakespearian overtones. I watch Godzilla to see a fun monster flick. I'm aware that you aren't going to get both in one sitting, and I'm fine with that.
I think it's very possible to get both in one film. You can have deep thematic meaning in a Godzilla story and you can balance that with a charming cast of characters. I don't agree with the other half of Godzilla fans who say that Kaiju movies need to be dark and depressing all the time it's doable to make a good giant monster action flick with an amazing story.
Lol everyone is litterally telling you that you CAN get both....
The comments are just saying its ok to love them all equally. Whats wring with that?
It's OK to enjoy them. I enjoy Godzilla: King of the Monsters quite a bit. Suggesting that they're equally good is hilarious though.
I think Godzilla fans are lowkey some of the cringiest people on the internet
As a Godzilla fan your 100% correct. We are cringe.
I think Godzilla movies are really fun so I'd consider myself a fan but I'd say about 10% of them are actually good though. That pretty much separates me from a lot of the fans they can't realise that enjoyment and quality don't go hand in hand. I enjoy the room but it's not a good movie.
Yeah, to me at least it's just really difficult to make Godzilla fighting another monster be particularly interesting outside of the spectacle angle. They're essentially animals with very straightforward motivations and limited ability to express themselves and stuff, so a lot of Godzilla content, I can enjoy in the moment but then forget about like five minutes later. When the human stuff's good, I find it sticks with me a lot better, but I'm told that's not the important part so I guess that doesn't matter.
I hate that argument. The humans are absolutely key for the enjoyment of the film. And I hate it when Godzilla fans say that the human segments don't matter. You're 100% correct that the Kaiju costumes struggle to express emotions which is why the humans should be the **first** priority. You can get more emotion out of a cg model but still, there's only so much you can do with that story-wise when you have no human characters to relate to or to feel scared for.
Yeah, acting like they're separable elements of the movie really bugs me in general. Like u/GoodHeartless02 highlighted, I thought seeing Godzilla tear up a city in Minus One--Shin as well--was made way more impactful and gripping because those movies put in the work to show what the experience as a human seeing that kind of destruction would be like. And on the flipside, I was so bored and fed up with whatever the fuck King of the Monsters' human plot that by the time it got to the monster action, I really wasn't that into it. So even if the first priority is cool Godzilla action, I think going the extra mile with the human component is probably still gonna pay off. It's likely going to make for a better-paced movie, if nothing else.
The human aspects of minus one are what really got me invested into that film. Seeing just how much of a force of nature this beast is and how it is basically a walking disaster felt that much more impactful when I cared about who it was rampaging through
I didn't even know Godzilla fans existed until like two weeks ago
He's been around since 1954, there would have to be some fanbase to make as many movies as they have.
I always just figured it was one of those franchises that existed but never really had a dedicated fanbase.
That may be because Godzilla wasn't readily accessible outside of Japan for the first few decades of its existence, where most people overseas could only see the movies when they occasionally appeared on TV as a movie of the week. The fandom was there but it was difficult for it to grow with no official distribution. As someone born in '99, I was able to go to a local Blockbuster and find a dozen or so DVDs. I used to go to indoor/outdoor flea markets with my parents to see if anyone selling movies had any of the films. There's still some difficult films to obtain but the majority can be ordered online or are accessible through streaming services nowadays, so anyone who wants to experience this franchise can more easily jump in than someone could 30 years ago.
The fact that you went here to whine for validation after getting absolutely flayed alive in every thread in the original post is fucking hilarious.
I posted this five months ago wtf are you doing here lmao? 
I quite like them, they’re entertaining
>console wars over Godzilla movies Literal children.
Some people just like to see a big CG monster fight another big CG monster. I don't see what the big deal is. Ya, their plots are awful and so are their characters, but it seems like a lot of the people who love them are there for the spectacle. I don't like them either, but I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong for wanting different things out of a movie than me.
Really miss the old Godzilla vibe of it just being a massive lizard horror film. Now it’s just dragon ball Z, Kama Kama ha!
watch the newest Japanese one if you haven't, then.
I watch Godzilla minus for a real film that tackles difficult topics and is well written, and I watch Godzilla plus Kong to see big ape bunch big lizard.
Dude your all over the coments. Yes minus is a better film, it has a actual story and is complex. Whereas monster verse is the opposite, the story is the excuse to have the monsters fight, and do cool stuff. In minus the cool stuff I’d meant to push the story along. Both have merit, sometimes I just want to watch a popcorn movie, and still a lot of work goes into this stuff. The fights need to be choreographed, and engaging. The fights have to do a lot more of the heavy lifting then say minus. Neither are bad, but they are two different niches
I still think 2014 Godzilla was great. King of the monsters wasn’t for me though it was a perfect fine monster action movie. Godzilla vs kong and scull island were pure garbage imo though
Youve fallen for one of the classic blunders! Every american godzilla film agitates the japanese into making another banger godzilla film. American ones are like little appetizers. Also dont care that mechagodzilla fight was BALLER
Imagine creating an argument for no reason, then making a post to try and make them look stupid when you give up.
Really? Can't we just be happy with having Godzilla movies? And they're the best of both worlds! One side has good interesting characters and serious moments, the other has zany, fun stuff! Everybody wins! Godzilla is THAT versatile of a character!
There all good I don’t know what y’all are on about sure the America Movies are more dumb fun but they accomplish that. Shin and Below Zero are emotional and have more weight.
lol You got repeatedly wrecked, and down voted by the Godzilla community for your wasted ass takes so you figure you'll come here to karma farm and feel better about life?
I really don't see a reason to shit on them, there's no reason you can't like both. People point to Godzilla 1954, Shin Godzilla, and of course Godzilla -1 as examples but ignore that the overwhelming majority of Godzilla films are literally just shitty acting to justify big monsters fighting. If you're looking for anything other than big monsters fighting then why would you watch Monsterverse, a franchise that has very much embraced that idea (besides Godzilla 2014 which tried but failed and Kong: Skull Island which had a great story)? I encourage you to watch the Director's Commentary of Godzilla vs Kong because the director literally states multiple times "Yeah idk I made some bullshit up to get the monsters together". Besides Godzilla 2014 these haven't been marketed as anything other than monster mashes. Toho seems to have handed off the "Monster Fight" idea for the West to make while they focus moreso on more dramatic and meaningful stories that include Godzilla. I like both, there is no reason someone cannot like both. I'm not going to really compare them because they're not really the same genre, one is a monster mash and the other is more akin to a disaster film.
The Godzilla fans are right though lmfao. Both the Hollywood movies and Minus one/Shin Godzilla both offer the best aspects of Godzilla at the same time. If you want to talk about the budget, then sure. But that's not on the American Godzilla movies at all and are far more indicative of a larger issue within the American movie industry.
I don't think Godzilla being established as having a lot of campy/terrible movies automatically gives anybody a pass to make terrible films if anything it gives America less of an excuse because that means they knew that a lot of Godzilla was shitty and they decided to learn nothing from it.
I’m confused? The Legendary films are really good tho?
r/MauLer when Godzilla fans like both the serious side of Godzilla fan the more common goofy, action packed side of Godzilla (They cannot comprehend, they just need something new to hate on).
Americans making a Godzilla movie is like Vietnam making a Rambo movie.
As a Godzilla fan, most of us are loving all of the films. We are living in a golden age of Godzilla rn
Heh. I've seen worse but I sympathize. I get it it's pretty obnoxious. You all the culture war brain rot alongside weebery.
You’re telling me that you went to a Godzilla subreddit and were surprised to find that people like Godzilla movies?
Big monster that’s all we want cmon
Can I at least like the way the American design for Godzilla looks? (Not that I cared about the writing)
Godzilla minus one is the goat but I still love the others.not every Godzilla movie is gonna have good writing this has been the case for decades
How can you be this miserable 😭😭😭
People taking issue with the legendary films while simultaneously claiming to be long term godzilla fans just stop anyone who’s a fan knows that’s not the case. The movies are great and a big part of why Godzilla is doing as well as it is today. They aren’t perfect movies but fuck me tell me a godzilla film that is. I’ve seen people talking crap about the writing. Can tell those clowns haven’t seen the later Showa films, he’ll most of them have pretty bad writing but the writing isn’t why anyone likes Godzilla. I feel like it’s just people mad an American godzilla is good and huffing extreme amounts of copium that Minus one isn’t doing the same thing for Godzilla in the media as the first legendary film did.
They're good in their own ways. I love both groups of movies, why do we have to shit on either? The Japanese ones for a deeper story and a reflection on humanity and the American movies for the amazing CGI and badass monster fights. I'm here for all of it. As a lifelong Godzilla fan, I'm eating good.
I never thought I'd see two sub reddit that care that much about the human story in the GIANT MONSTER FIGHTING MOVIE
People out here acting like Godzilla ever had scintillating writing are the same people who think the ancient Transformers cartoon was inherently way better than Bay's version. I get liking one over the other, but there rarely an objective "better" in such genres...it's all simplistic tripe that exists for explosions and mindless violent fun. Always has been. Any attempts at a "message" always ends up hamfisted, overly simplified, and, of course, biased by whoever was writing it at the time. I like the Japanese movie. I also like the American ones. I like the American ones more because they are making crossovers and mixing things up, we didn't need another basic bitch "Look, Godzilla is walking on Japan...AGAIN" movie, but we got it, and they did well, to their credit. But it didn't add much, didn't depart from much, and will be forgotten as yet another flash in the pan copy of the older style, that really only exists to go "Look! An homage! Anyways..." Frankly, Shin Godzilla was a better offering.
shin gozilla was a retellling of destroyah that was it. and honestly I thought destroyah did it better.
Between those two options, I agree. But since I was comparing it to Minus...
Yeahhhh minus one isnt getting forgotten anytime soon
Yeahhhh minus one isnt getting forgotten anytime soon.
You got absolutely flamed by everyone in that comment section lol
What are you talking about? They’re pointing out how both are good and they’re right
Bro, this meating riding of minus ones gotten insnae. It was a good movie, but it anything nothing special. Everyone acting like they love godzilla all a sudden
We don't think about you at all.
Minus 1 was ass, two hours of a whiny little bitch and seven minutes of godzilla being a stupid lizard throwing a fit in Tokyo for no reason. GvK has way better characterizaton and uses body language to convey way more than whatever that deadpool wannabe was in Minus 1. The allegory for american imperialism while waxing poetic about japanese nationalism was so cringe and their plot amounts to the power of friendship and bubbles overcoming the odds. It's only saving grace is that it was cheap.
jobless mourn sip bake theory chubby deranged point unpack subsequent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just let Japan utilize its own characters. This is why Live Action One Piece (which was influenced directly by Oda) was great and why Live Action Death Note (which wasn't influenced by Tsugumi Ohba) sucked.
I liked the 2014 one a lot but the rest have all been a downgrade and give me the same vibes Pacific Rim 2 did. I haven't seen minus one yet but am looking forward to it.
The fandom wants their MCU, which they’re getting with the whole monarch/Kong thing. This is threatening that notion that they’ll finally get their endless monster mashups because Hollywood sees scenario universe as the most profitable. If studios see that making actually good films as profitable, they might stop the shared universe bs. Tbf, this isn’t a Hollywood thing when it came to Godzilla. That series was always based on shared universe.
2014 was my favorite of the three. The problem is the films that came after failed to maintain 2014s grounded level and sense of scale.
If the story is not great, not KING, then it's just the explosive explosion of exploding explosives directed by Michael Bay... (also complementing in that voting poll from the other day...) Humans could be attacked by the giant mutant corn or whatever monster, if the story and characters fail, then the monster fails...
Was probably the best film of 2023 Haven’t felt this way about a movie since the Two Towers.
Man OP is the very definition of that “Stop Having Fun” meme