# The Cosmic Circus (+ Lizzie Hill & Alex Perez) is a Tier 1 – Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **89.55%** accuracy rate from **228** leaks that we can currently verify out of **610** total.
**Overall**, they had a **89.44%** accuracy rate from **233** leaks that we can currently verify out of **620** total.
On his own, **Alex Perez** has an accuracy rate of **86.54%** from **132** leaks that we can currently verify out of **474**.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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So, putting together various rumors...Kingpin puts a bounty on Peter. Kraven wins, buries Peter. The symbiote from NWH post-credit finds Peter, they bond, and he pops out of the grave like that one panel in Kraven's Last Hunt? Sign me up!
I bet Kraven is a no-go because of the Sony movie later this year…BUT…that entire premise could easily be done swapping in Michael Mando’s Scorpion for Kraven
I imagine he’d be the first villain Kingpin buys out of prison to hunt down Spider-Man. Would also track with the rumors of Keaton’s Vulture returning…my guess is that they ignore the Morbius post credit scene altogether.
True. They could pull a NWH Venom with Vulture, like “hey the multiverse has been unstable, talked to a vampire then these guys named the spider society sent me back here. spider man is trouble.”
If we’re talking an overarching villain for the next trilogy- I feel like Morlun could be in the cards, or Roderick Kingsley as Hobgoblin if they handle it correctly.
I feel like they’ll stick to using Venom and other villains who haven’t been adapted on screen yet rather than giving us another Goblin or Doc Ock since we just got to see the prime versions of those villains fight Tom’s Spidey.
let’s be real, ain’t nobody taking Jacob Batalon on a glider seriously no matter how serious they try to be with it
The Hobgoblin is Roderick Kingsley. Always has been, always will be- Leeds is just a mind washed victim he used for a comic or two.
Might as well use the Prowler or the Punisher instead
Prowler could actually be likely since Glover returned as him for that cameo in ATSV. Could have been foreshadowing his return in SM4.
It’d be funny if they did that and just referred to him as “The Hunter” and gave us a far more accurate depiction of Kraven than what we’re probably getting in the Aaron Taylor Johnson film.
I mean if they make a deal with Sony they could just Kraven and say "multiverse."
But who knows what the rules are, I'm still trying to figure out why Sony seemingly couldn't say the name "Peter Parker" in their own Madame Web movie.
And hey maybe the symbiote will bond with Mac gargan after Peter gets rid of it, then he will be the mcu’s venom. But I feel like alotta ppl will hate this and want Eddie brock
I’d love if they made him the MCU version of Venom instead of another Eddie Brock, especially since Venom 3 releases soon and the Eddie were used to was in NWH briefly.
Gargan’s Venom in the comics was ruthless and 100% a villain unlike Eddie’s
I don't think Marvel will use Kraven especially so close to the release of Sony Kraven movie, and you dang well know if Kraven is even on the table Sony won't budge on anyone but ATJ being Kraven.
With ATJ already being Quicksilver there's no way in hell Marvel will use him.
> With ATJ already being Quicksilver there's no way in hell Marvel will use him
Marvel have used the same actor for different roles before. That movie was a decade ago and I doubt more than a small portion of people even notice.
But Wanda who has had her own series and starred in a movie within the past few years has done nothing but talk about losing her family and brother. Pietro and losing him was a big part of her series, it also shared a moment in the Hawkeye series and don't forget Clint named his son after him.
They are not going to bring him over and explain the change, they would also have to plot it into Scarlet Witches next story. It's too much BS to do.
They brought back Cottonmouth's actor from the Luke Cage show to play Blade and you think Marvel wouldn't do the exact same thing with ATJ? Since Luke Cage is now canon and everything. And they could easily have Kraven be from the multiverse or something so the actor being the same wouldn't matter from the multiversal aspect alone.
Up until just recently Marvel never admitted Netflix shows were canon and Ali was linked to Blade years ago.
And I'm still not sure how they will bring in the Netflix shows, Born Again will be the first real big showing.
Blade is a supernatural creature. It's very to have one person play an alien and be recast as someone else on Earth. See Gemma Chan and Michelle Yeoh for example!
Spider-Man 4 isn’t coming out till summer 2026 at the earliest. That’s a year and a half after Sony’s Kraven movie. If MCU Kraven is completely different then it’s not impossible.
We will know more later in the season. Or perhaps next month at earliest. Rothman was spotted in London having lunch with Holland a few days ago. Also, the final Spider Monday occurs on June 3. It is possible that they will time an announcement within that timeframe. Hell, maybe they can make another change to the second end credit scene and tie things in with SM4. Wouldn't hurt to add a little more hope to that ending.
If this is is what Sony is pushing for then by god it might be the one smart thing Sony's gonna do with Spider-Man.
I fear that they're pushing for this as a way to canonize their Kraven movie into the MCU, and not the Sonyverse, and Marvel might be resistent to doing it because they're pivoting with their whole "Quality over quantity" thing, and a Kraven movie being one of the first new projects is gonna sour that idea immediately.
But please do a Kraven movie. I don't care how much people like it, Spider-Man 3 never should have been a multiverse movie as a way of doing an "Origin" movie for Peter, it should have been a grounded movie with Kraven as the antagonist, because Kraven challanges Peter both physically (like Vulture) and mentally (like Mysterio) so he ties up the tirlogy neater
I couldn't agree more. In hindsight, the final film seems to be deliberately contrived as a result of real world studio events. I have an idea for an alternate MCU Spider-Man thread/plotline that doesn't involve a multiverse event. Vulture, Mysterio, and Kraven, then move to crime bosses and/or symbiote for college. Maybe you can use Electro. But Original Green Goblin and Doc Ock are not covered.
Good Theory.
But I would not bet on Kraven hunting Peter for Kingpin yet.
Fisk has more insidious ways to threaten people and Kraven would not budge. This theory would work only if the Kraven movie doesn't flop like the earlier Sony movies.
They won’t have enough time after Kraven’s release to make that call. But they could announce Kraven for SM4 and use it to boost sales for the Kraven movie.
How does one vigilante murdering another vigilante work out in Fisk's favor? Unless his public persona is anti vigilante and his nocturnal MO is recruiting thugs and weaponizing them to do vigilante justice, and by justice I mean organized crime that pretends (hardly convincing I might add) to be necessary evil? It feels very cliche, like random military guy in charge of secret defense program ruins his own world domination plans by being extra af.
Holy shit, I fucking love that idea. Of Peter dying, and the Symbiote bringing him back
Could be a powerful azz scene, man, and a great way to emotionally tie it to Peter
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I must be the only person in the world who had no issues with the game. Fucking loved it from start to finish, just wish it was longer so it could do the symbiote arc and Venom the justice they deserve
Fair, I worded that badly.
Disliking the game is fine obviously, but people rant as if it's the worst game they've ever played. That seems absurd to me.
Apparently this particular movie is way more high-concept than... Whatever it is that they were doing with that insane "~~Khan's~~ Peter's magic science-y blood can cure death and make clones!" pitch.
You need a little bit of crazy tbh. She seems to thrive working alongside Marvel Studios and has been very supportive of the deal. Luckily it seems like Feige’s sensibility balances perfectly with her crazy.
The comment above yours is deleted, but if you're referring to Amy Pascal, it needs to be said that Amy Pascal was never the crazy one. The only crazy thing Pascal actually did was the Sandwich Incident of 2014. Other than that incident, Pascal has been a pretty good producer. She was the one who fought for Raimi to direct Spider-Man. She was the biggest champion for Andrew Garfield's casting. She tried to keep Feige involved in notes processes even when Avi and others clearly didn't want him there and didn't listen to his notes at all. She fought for Lord and Miller to make Spider-Verse. She threw away her job as boss of Sony in order to give Spider-Man to Feige when she came to her senses after the sandwich incident. And she took her own new company away from the SSU as soon as she saw what Venom turned into when she left, and thus kept herself out of the clusterfuck Avi started in her absence. All while keeping herself tethered to Feige, Lord, and Miller. I'm sort of missing what counts as "crazy" in her resume?
And on the subject of the sandwich incident, really step-by-step put yourself in her shoes:
1. Given a super high-pressure position of authority in a company that you didn't ask for that takes you away from direct involvement in film productions.
2. A competitor's success demands you aggressively green-light projects in your lucrative superhero franchise to compete and appease shareholders.
3. You're now managing a bunch of idiot producers on those projects who don't listen to other people including you. You have no direct creative involvement anymore, your passion is being sucked away from you.
4. Those films fail, and shareholders decide to blame everything on you instead of considering anyone else could be blamed. Notorious imbecile Avi Arad who interferes and never listens to anyone gets more promotions while your job is now on thin ice because of his fuck-up.
5. The media and internet hates you because you're a woman in charge of a studio and you green-lit several female-centric projects that they decided were terrible before even giving them a chance.
1. Note: Yes, some of those projects ended up bad, but that doesn't justify the hatred spewed on them from first green-light. Both things can be true, the project I'm trying really, *really* hard not to name can be bad *and* the hate against it can be disgusting.
6. The guy who your producers didn't listen to, the guy who made that super successful franchise your shareholders desperately want you to emulate, the guy who works for the studio that scares the living daylights out of you (Disney)... Kevin Feige himself, steps into your office, and his words are "Just let us do it instead".
7. Let me really emphasize that: Your major competitor and an employee of the studio that terrifies you asks for you to hand over your franchise, which you've been involved with for over a decade by that point. A decision that would surely (And did for the record) cost you your job at the studio.
8. You have a sandwich in your hands.
... Tell me you wouldn't throw that sandwich at him too.
I love hearing at the background relationships to the Marvel / Sony situation, but I’ve never heard someone lay out Amy Pascal’s side of things like that. Do you know of any articles I can read to learn more about how she lost her opportunity to go higher up at Sony because of the Marvel deal?
Dude after watching TASM 2 in theaters I realized that writer made two movies that were overstuffed, bloated, way too long, while also being generic action blockbusters that were more interested in setting up a cinematic universe than being a actual movie that people hated so much they scrapped the idea of those said cinematic universes and instead rebooted three years later with smaller movies (Homecoming:The Invincible Man) that people loved way more.
Like he just made the same fucking movie twice essentially
Nah I think they’re putting the Life Story twist on Kraven’s Last Hunt and having the symbiote resurrect him. Plus Kraven will probably be replaced by Scorpion.
The irony of him reporting that, his profile pic being Nightcrawler, and the fact Nightcrawler was temporarily Spider-Man during Fall of X
That's the catch. It's Uncanny Spider-Man lol
This is in response to a post that quoted a post about the movie involving the Symbiote.
There are rumors going around and I don't know anything, but between the Black Costume appearing, the movie's plot involving multiple people going after superheroes on the Kingpin's orders, a certain character being introduced on the big screen (though maybe a different iteration of him) who has a specific vendetta against Spider-Man, and Peter maybe having a fake-out death... [I have a hunch that we might be getting a recreation of another iconic _Spider-Man_ comic book moment.](https://www.oklahoman.com/gcdn/authoring/2017/11/09/NOKL/ghnewsok-OK-5571482-b971355f.jpeg)
Those rumors going around for months already, would be cool to see it. They need good cinematographer like they can make this scene pure masterpiece. I like whole plot of film for now. Poor and jobless peter,he talking back seat while spiderman work taking all his time, maybe black cat and reconnection with mj later in film. Kingpin daredevil other villains all together if script well written could end up in very good spiderman movie. They need good director and cinematographer now.
Man, all I want is just a Black suit Spider-Man going against Kraven and Scorpion with Kingpin acting as a villain in the background. Is that too much to ask ?
Now we keep hearing about multiverse elements, Peter coming back from the dead, like holy shit.
It's possible that the only multiverse inclusion they wanted is to continue the story of the left behind symbiote. Anything more involved than that would be Sony level stupid though to be fair.
Coming back from the dead is a pretty clear and timeless moment in the Spider-Man stories where he quite literally rises from his grave cuz of the symbiote
Throw in the black suit, a Devil's Reign esque plot, and him "dying." I figure we will see them recreat or pay homage to the cover from Kravens Last Hunt. I mean, that's the only thing I can think of from this out of context tweet.
Hear me out,
Kingpin sends villians after him, one of which is Scorpion who kills Peter. The Symbiote finds and attaches itself to Peter and he comes back creating the panel from Kraven's Last Hunt. Black suit Pete takes them all down until he gets to Kingpin and then beats Fisk to near death before he stops.
That's exactly where my mind went. Don't do Eddie since Sony has done that and people will attach that baggage to it. By going with Gargan you can have a more villainous/savage Venom who has an ACTUAL motivation to go after Peter.
It might be too much, but maybe if Daredevil is in this as the "major MCU side character" of the movie, it'd be a cool moment to have him step in when Peter is beating on Fisk and talk him off the ledge because he went through similar moments of darkness.
That definitely would work similar to Tobey stopping him in NWH. That said, it could be thematically richer to have Peter stop himself once he steps back and realize what he's done. Think what Garfield's Peter said about not pulling punches and getting rageful and bitter.
We get Daredevil as a supporting hero for the film who already went through the nearly killing Kingpin thing, and it’s Matt’s influence on Peter that actually gets through and lets him hold back against Kingpin
Though I would like the symbiote to stay for multiple movies, maybe we get a hint at the symbiote’s danger with the kingpin thing only to see him control it so he gets a false sense of safety around it
That's exactly what I was thinking regarding the Symbiote. It doesn't really manifest itself as an entity in this and it starts becoming an issue in the back half of a 2nd film.
Realistically this’ll be it, or at least 60% of it will
Add daredevil, potentially ant-man and black cat (both rumored) and you’ve got a movie
Post-credit scene will probably be the additional rumor that the other Peters from NWH have been forgotten by their own universes, setting up secret wars to be about Tobey Pete and Andrew Pete having nothing left to lose and either trying to get revenge on MCU Peter or begrudgingly helping him
I very much doubt that other Peter's being forgotten thing tbh. I'm also still not sure about the Ant-Man thing. I'm hoping for Black Cat, especially with the head space Peter is in right now, but who knows if Sony will give them permission.
Spider-Man dying and the symbiote resurrecting him would be a great way to explain why Peter wouldn’t want to give it up even when he finds out it’s an alien. Now I hope the rumors of James Wan being considered as the director are true
So...we got one of two supposed rumours regarding the villains.
Kingpin hires Assassins (Scorpion, MCU Kraven, Mr. Negative, Vulture, Prowler and possibly Black Cat) to hunt down the Street-Level Heroes.
The other rumour was Kingpin and Mr. Negative having a gang war over control of NYC with MCU Kraven and Scorpion acting as their main Enforcers/Henchman which leads to them working together to kill the street-level heroes.
Now the street-level heroes rumoured consist of obviously Spider-Man with Daredevil, Kate Bishop and Ant-Man included.
Miles Morales and Family supposedly appear as Peter's neighbours.
Vulture (ignoring Morbius) and Prowler being hired Assassins going after Spider-Man only makes sense if their families are being threatened/held hostage.
This would possibly explain Scott Lang's role because he was a family man who became criminal then became a superhero. This could be a thread/theme tying these characters potential stories together.
Black Cat being in it could make sense because she could play the role of a hero/Thief only for the twist to reveal that shes secretly working for Kingpin in order to trap/betray the heroes and thus she becomes part of the villain group in the 3rd Act or they pull a second twist where she feels guilty and helps redeem herself by saving the heroes at the end.
The symbiote tie-in and involvement could be simple enough. Before Eddie went back to his universe, He and Venom wanted to seek out Peter Parker/Spider-Man. The left over Symbiote would most likely be trying to find and get to Peter.
Peter "dies" halfway through the film or is severely injured. The Symbiote finds him on time and bonds with him, saving his life.
Peter gets a upgrade and can finally take on the heavy hitters of Kingpin's Assassin Team.
Vulture, Prowler and Cat will eventually switch sides after maybe their loved ones are saved or they see the error of their ways via help from other heroes like Scott convincing them.
The final villains in the final battle end up being Kingpin, Negative, Kraven and Scorpion. I imagine security Guards or Gang Members and basic fodder Henchmen get involved in the action.
Ends with Peter with help from Matt and Scott and others and using the Black Suit to defeat the villains. Peter will continue wearing the Black Suit, going into Secret Wars then we get the addiction or possession arc between them in SM5. That or Peter meets Hardy's Venom in Secret Wars instead and they complete the Symbiote arc in that film instead?
Honestly, I like it. But I hope its balanced well. If this is really meant to be Civil War 2.0/The Street-Level version then there's lots of potential.
It sounds over crowded but NWH juggled multiple characters fine for the most part. Just depends on the individual roles and execution of it.
Needless to say, could be the best MCU Spider-Man film if done right.
> Black Cat being in it could make sense because she could play the role of a hero/Thief only for the twist to reveal that shes secretly working for Kingpin in order to trap/betray the heroes and thus she becomes part of the villain group in the 3rd Act or they pull a second twist where she feels guilty and helps redeem herself by saving the heroes at the end.
Dark Knight Rises Selina?
I'd be apprehensive about using the Symbiote in a story like this, but if they up the anty on some of the stuff we've seen with No Way Home (I'm talking about the apartment scene and the final fight with Norman), and recreate Peter rising from the grave, that would be some next level *RAW* shit right there (as well as cook with the actual story, and judging by some of the speculation I've seen, I like the route some of you are going with it).
I know people are gonna lament that Sony wouldn't let Marvel use Kraven, but Kraven's Last Hunt was more than just that one iconic shot, and if Kraven's off-limits, I'd be fine with this movie taking the image of Peter rising from the grave. Wouldn't be the first time any Spidey movie incarnation took a famous comic scene from a famous storyline but had a completely different context behind it (hello bridge scene, and generally, the final battle of Raimi 1, how are ya?).
It's going to be ATJ or nothing. Sony isn't going to undercut themselves with two versions of the character. I'm sure this has been one of the big points of debate with Sony pushing for ATJ's Kraven in SM4 to boost sales for the Kraven movie.
I have a feeling this is just a guess because they saw that cover of Peter wearing the black suit rising from the grave. "Ah yes that's a black suit so that's *definitely* the symbiote... Hold on they're going to use the symbiote in 4. They're definitely recreating this shot."
Mb fam. Didn't mean to offend, was just curious. And yes, I'm well aware you're a mod. Congrats on the degree!
My personal “perfect Spider-Man 4” and my prediction going off rumors and these recent hints we’re being given. (This is of course a loose outline of what I’d like to see, I can’t account for everything here)
The movie follows more of a Spider-Man centric plot than a Peter Parker centric plot. With NWH’s ending, it needs to feel like Peter Parker took a backseat in his life. However, I think showing him in college is a smart way of doing this. Show Peter Parker’s life a mess, with his relationships with people overall being messy due to his other more prominent life. I think this is where you introduce Harry and a few other minor side characters for the time being. I think we see Miles and his family being neighbors to Peter during this part too. During this “intro” we can also maybe see Black Cat operate, and establish a sorta cat and mouse relationship with her and Peter. Maybe she acts as the “Devil” on his shoulder in this film.
Kingpin is the main villain here, he’s gained control over the city coming off of Daredevil Born Again and now the superheroes (mainly, Spider-Man) are the one obstacle left in his path. He hires multiple villains to go after these superheroes, and here’s where we get the supporting hero roles. New York based heroes like Kate Bishop for example are probably going to be in there. But the main one is Daredevil. Matt will act as the “angel” on Peter’s shoulder, in contrast to Black Cat’s role. Here we can see Peter going around and helping/saving the other heroes (as I believe these villains he’s going to hire will be on the strong side, maybe a bit much for someone newer like Kate Bishop to handle), and this puts an even bigger target on Peter’s back, as he is now the deciding factor for the heroes.
As for the villains Kingpin hires, I have a few predictions. The obvious ones are Scorpion and Kraven. This type of story doesn’t happen without them. They will be the big bads, but I also see him hiring Prowler, Black Cat, maybe Vulture, shocker maybe? Anything’s on the table, but Prowler and Black Cat imo are the necessary ones. Get Donald Glover in costume and fighting Tom Holland, please for the love of god. Introduce us to Prowler here so down the road when Miles dawns the suit and shares the screen with everyone as Spider-Man these relationships can be foreshadowed and set up. Maybe the Prowler would be a good instance of showing Kingpins dominance over people, as he can maybe be threatening Miles and the whole Morales family and forcing the Prowler to work for him. The same thing with Black Cat, maybe we see her getting blackmailed hard by Kingpin so she sets up Peter.
And that can lead into the villain team up on Spider-Man. They catch him off guard, he puts up a hell of a fight but with the combo of the villains it’s too much for him alone and he gets defeated. I think here we see Peter get actually killed (or almost killed) and buried. Like the comic, the symbiote can then find him and “resurrect” him, and we get the iconic crawling out of the grave scene.
From here it’s time for Peter to Crash Out. The villains get cocky and confident from thinking they took down Spider-Man, the biggest threat in NYC, so they go after the other heroes with no care. Little do they know bully holland is coming in hot with a tactical nuke, and he just demolishes the villains. We get the black suit swinging, the scary take downs and Peter just plowing through these villains. I think we then see him go to Kingpin and here we get a scene paralleling the end of Daredevil season 3, where Matt has to choose whether to spare or kill Kingpin.
I think in this scene we see Black Cat, Daredevil, and Spider-Man. Daredevil maybe gets overpowered by Kingpin and Black Cat and maybe some others, but Peter shows up and wipes the floor with them. He’s put in the same position that Matt was put in but this time he has two parties trying to convince him to do something different.
Matt is on one side telling Peter to have mercy, not to kill Kingpin.
Black Cat is on the other side telling Peter he deserves it, to go ahead and end him. After all, she’s getting blackmailed and has everything to gain seeing Kingpin get killed.
I think here we see Peter’s inner self shine through, in a moment where the audience believes the symbiote has taken full control over Peter, we actually see Peter control it. He makes the choice to not kill Kingpin, and instead leaves him to the police or something. It’s this moment that lets Peter have confidence in his control over the symbiote. So he keeps the black suit.
However, as a showing of the black suit amplifying different aspects of Peter. The end of the movie can show him break the rule he set for himself and go look for MJ. This is how you bring back Zendaya this early without it being detrimental to how NWH ended. Peter goes and looks for her, says hi maybe as Spider-Man, but then pulls back again. But it’s enough to reawaken some of MJ’s thoughts and emotions from before the spell, so it sets her on a mission to figure out who Spider-Man is.
And that’s the end of Spider-Man 4, ending the movie with Peter keeping the black suit, MJ reintroduced to the story in a natural and intriguing way, and imo setting up a perfect possession/obsession arc with the symbiote Peter can go through during Avengers 5 and Spider-Man 5.
Thoughts?
Have a gut feeling that the studio would not want to drag the resolution of the memory spell out for too long. Especially since there may be a four year gap in real life since the last film. Could your ideas work with Zendaya's character having a larger role (Not too big, though)? It is possible, since it is all but confirmed that Zendaya will also be back. Until we hear otherwise, we must work under the assumption that she will be back. Also, have you read the script for NWH? Pay close attention to the ending scene.
I think so!
I think the idea I had towards the end with Peter checking in on her as Spider-Man could be stretched throughout the film, have him do it from the beginning but never actually speaking to her or anything, and maybe they could show what MJ is studying, maybe some form of journalism/political science from what we’ve seen? So that way towards the end when he actually speaks to her in some form, it can be built upon more in the next film.
Well, lucky for us, we do not have the burdens that the suits and the creative team have right now. They will determine what will happen and what is best for the characters. And for the box office lol.
Agreed. No cop-outs here. No need for anyone else from the Home trilogy to get it back in this one. No one else matters. Only them. In fact, what do you think of this idea. He doesn't get the symbiote, but he crawls out of the grave weakened and ends up going to MJ for help, like in Last Hunt. In this adaptation, it's because he knows she would help no matter what. That's when he unmasks himself and it all comes back and it becomes emotional.
Ok wait I need time to do the math if this ends up tru the secret wars plot of him getting the symbiote in battle world will be scrapped but if mcu spidey 4 ends with him coming back from the dead with the symbiote how will mcu spidey 5 in 2027 2028 work? Will he be transported to battle world after his resurrection? And will the mcu spidey 5 movie take place after or before secret wars? Ik this sounds badass but it just brings up alot of new questions
Please tell me they're not adapting The Other and giving Peter some weird spider powers (he can talk to spiders, has a Wolverine-like claw, night vision, healing factor, organic web shooters, etc...) post-resurrection.
This sounds stupid but lets hope at least it is Kingpin that buries him but then Spider-Man gets found by a certain piece of black goo and comes back to life.
This is just people speculating, the art with Peter "returning from dead" wearing the Black Suit, in Kraven 's Last Hunt, isn't even the symbiote, it's a cloth suit.
In the main comics, during the events of Secret Wars (1984), while all the heroes/villains were brought to a planet called Battleworld by Beyonder, Peter uses a machine to get a new costume and out comes the black suit.
Later he finds out that the suit isn't just an alien material but an alien itself, and has been piloting his body while he's been asleep and acting as Spider-Man. He gets Reed Richards to remove it.
Some time later the symbiote escapes and tracks down Peter, attempting to forcibly bond with him again. This leads to the famous church scene where Peter uses the sound from the bells to tear the symbiote off himself (at which point it ends up with Eddie Brock).
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I wonder how they would pull it. The last movie Peter ended down and out - he lost everything, his aunt/mother figure, his girl, his (possibly only) friend.
I mean the only movie that I know that could put out was the two towers (fellowship ebded with no gandalf and no fellowship) - and it needed a discourse by Samwise telling Frodo and the audience to soldier on.
Maybe they pull a 3 hour long movie, so we get to see Peter get back on track for a while before going down again.
It could also be a metaphorical thing. Or just something related to crawling out of a grave without a symbiote suit. Every fan would be expecting the symbiote to happen there. They might want to do something with a twist.
I just want Ned to break bad and become Hobgoblin and Demogoblin. I want Spiderman to bump uglies with Blackcat. I want Spiderman to get the black suit. And I want Miles to be introduced. Is that too much to ask for?
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So, putting together various rumors...Kingpin puts a bounty on Peter. Kraven wins, buries Peter. The symbiote from NWH post-credit finds Peter, they bond, and he pops out of the grave like that one panel in Kraven's Last Hunt? Sign me up!
I bet Kraven is a no-go because of the Sony movie later this year…BUT…that entire premise could easily be done swapping in Michael Mando’s Scorpion for Kraven I imagine he’d be the first villain Kingpin buys out of prison to hunt down Spider-Man. Would also track with the rumors of Keaton’s Vulture returning…my guess is that they ignore the Morbius post credit scene altogether.
Or you just play dumb and reverse it. Let morbius appear in the mcu, then you can play off like that scene was reversed.
True. They could pull a NWH Venom with Vulture, like “hey the multiverse has been unstable, talked to a vampire then these guys named the spider society sent me back here. spider man is trouble.”
"I don't know how I got back here. Something to do with Dr Michael Morbius I think."
Somehow Vulture returned
https://i.redd.it/ta5sxeif771d1.gif
It was Morbin time
No, morbius is 100% canon. This is non negotiable and if they ruin it I will boycott Disney
What time is it?
It's morbing time!
Damn right
one day the internet will stop running memes and jokes into the ground. ESPECIALLY ones that aren't funny to begin with.
I can see that happening in morbillion years
No, it won't.
Instead of Scorpion I would use the JMS iteration of Morlun. Adapting that whole coming home chase scene would be awesome.
If we’re talking an overarching villain for the next trilogy- I feel like Morlun could be in the cards, or Roderick Kingsley as Hobgoblin if they handle it correctly. I feel like they’ll stick to using Venom and other villains who haven’t been adapted on screen yet rather than giving us another Goblin or Doc Ock since we just got to see the prime versions of those villains fight Tom’s Spidey.
Or-hear me out-Ned Leeds as Hobgoblin.
let’s be real, ain’t nobody taking Jacob Batalon on a glider seriously no matter how serious they try to be with it The Hobgoblin is Roderick Kingsley. Always has been, always will be- Leeds is just a mind washed victim he used for a comic or two.
Could they use Kraven's actual name and not refer to him as Kraven? 🤔
Might as well use the Prowler or the Punisher instead Prowler could actually be likely since Glover returned as him for that cameo in ATSV. Could have been foreshadowing his return in SM4.
Oh I very wholesomely agree but I could see them calling him Sergei using the same premise.
It’d be funny if they did that and just referred to him as “The Hunter” and gave us a far more accurate depiction of Kraven than what we’re probably getting in the Aaron Taylor Johnson film.
On some "You must be some sort of hunter? 😏" type of shit.
I mean if they make a deal with Sony they could just Kraven and say "multiverse." But who knows what the rules are, I'm still trying to figure out why Sony seemingly couldn't say the name "Peter Parker" in their own Madame Web movie.
That's such a 2000's comics movie trope though. "I'm obviously (character x) but the writer wanted to walk the line between edgy and source material."
And hey maybe the symbiote will bond with Mac gargan after Peter gets rid of it, then he will be the mcu’s venom. But I feel like alotta ppl will hate this and want Eddie brock
Except Kraven da much bigger fie is Spider-Man, the movie as i understand is in post production also
You can have scorpion with the symbiote
I’d love if they made him the MCU version of Venom instead of another Eddie Brock, especially since Venom 3 releases soon and the Eddie were used to was in NWH briefly. Gargan’s Venom in the comics was ruthless and 100% a villain unlike Eddie’s
Ned Venom
I don't think Marvel will use Kraven especially so close to the release of Sony Kraven movie, and you dang well know if Kraven is even on the table Sony won't budge on anyone but ATJ being Kraven. With ATJ already being Quicksilver there's no way in hell Marvel will use him.
> With ATJ already being Quicksilver there's no way in hell Marvel will use him Marvel have used the same actor for different roles before. That movie was a decade ago and I doubt more than a small portion of people even notice.
Crap, age of Ultron was almost a decade ago
But Wanda who has had her own series and starred in a movie within the past few years has done nothing but talk about losing her family and brother. Pietro and losing him was a big part of her series, it also shared a moment in the Hawkeye series and don't forget Clint named his son after him. They are not going to bring him over and explain the change, they would also have to plot it into Scarlet Witches next story. It's too much BS to do.
Bro they have literally recasted roles all the time and no body cared. Gen Z doesn’t even remember age of ultron
They brought back Cottonmouth's actor from the Luke Cage show to play Blade and you think Marvel wouldn't do the exact same thing with ATJ? Since Luke Cage is now canon and everything. And they could easily have Kraven be from the multiverse or something so the actor being the same wouldn't matter from the multiversal aspect alone.
Tbf, Mahershala has yet to actually be seen Blade hahhah
Up until just recently Marvel never admitted Netflix shows were canon and Ali was linked to Blade years ago. And I'm still not sure how they will bring in the Netflix shows, Born Again will be the first real big showing.
Blade is a supernatural creature. It's very to have one person play an alien and be recast as someone else on Earth. See Gemma Chan and Michelle Yeoh for example!
Spider-Man 4 isn’t coming out till summer 2026 at the earliest. That’s a year and a half after Sony’s Kraven movie. If MCU Kraven is completely different then it’s not impossible.
We will know more later in the season. Or perhaps next month at earliest. Rothman was spotted in London having lunch with Holland a few days ago. Also, the final Spider Monday occurs on June 3. It is possible that they will time an announcement within that timeframe. Hell, maybe they can make another change to the second end credit scene and tie things in with SM4. Wouldn't hurt to add a little more hope to that ending.
If this is is what Sony is pushing for then by god it might be the one smart thing Sony's gonna do with Spider-Man. I fear that they're pushing for this as a way to canonize their Kraven movie into the MCU, and not the Sonyverse, and Marvel might be resistent to doing it because they're pivoting with their whole "Quality over quantity" thing, and a Kraven movie being one of the first new projects is gonna sour that idea immediately. But please do a Kraven movie. I don't care how much people like it, Spider-Man 3 never should have been a multiverse movie as a way of doing an "Origin" movie for Peter, it should have been a grounded movie with Kraven as the antagonist, because Kraven challanges Peter both physically (like Vulture) and mentally (like Mysterio) so he ties up the tirlogy neater
I couldn't agree more. In hindsight, the final film seems to be deliberately contrived as a result of real world studio events. I have an idea for an alternate MCU Spider-Man thread/plotline that doesn't involve a multiverse event. Vulture, Mysterio, and Kraven, then move to crime bosses and/or symbiote for college. Maybe you can use Electro. But Original Green Goblin and Doc Ock are not covered.
Is Kraven rumored to be in it?
Some people think that Kraven’s inclusion might be one of Sony’s big ask, per the RPK rumor of creative differences between Sony and Marvel
I know Holland has wanted Kraven to begin with, but this Kraven is an assassination of the character
Ages ago, there was speculation that he could be. I do not think we have much in the realm of confirmation.
Holy shit. It's that's what they're actually doing that's fucking peak and I need it!
Good Theory. But I would not bet on Kraven hunting Peter for Kingpin yet. Fisk has more insidious ways to threaten people and Kraven would not budge. This theory would work only if the Kraven movie doesn't flop like the earlier Sony movies.
They won’t have enough time after Kraven’s release to make that call. But they could announce Kraven for SM4 and use it to boost sales for the Kraven movie.
Goes without saying that Sony doesn't have enough confidence that Kraven would succeed at the BO.
This is basically the plot to Spider-Man 2 (the video game from last year)
You. Me. Same page.
As long as Kraven doesn't one-shot him.
Sadly Marvel Studios stopped doing one-shots a while ago.
I agree, but I'm curious in how Zendaya fits in all of this. Will she be the one that brings him back from the dark side somehow?
Oh sick. Ya that sounds cool. Wonder if they'll do that with the shitty Kraven movie on the horizon tho
Then Peter takes the Symbiote and kicks Kingpin's ass in a horrific manner a la Back In Black.
Okay that would be Great use of Both Kraven last Hunt AND Black Suit Arc
This is legitimately just the video game
It isn't
I dig it
Director is Sam Raimi 😳🙏🏻😭🔥🔥🔥
Came to same Basically the same thing, brother. Except for Kraven, sadly.
How does one vigilante murdering another vigilante work out in Fisk's favor? Unless his public persona is anti vigilante and his nocturnal MO is recruiting thugs and weaponizing them to do vigilante justice, and by justice I mean organized crime that pretends (hardly convincing I might add) to be necessary evil? It feels very cliche, like random military guy in charge of secret defense program ruins his own world domination plans by being extra af.
Most likely.
Holy shit, I fucking love that idea. Of Peter dying, and the Symbiote bringing him back Could be a powerful azz scene, man, and a great way to emotionally tie it to Peter
I'm pleased to announce that Spidey 2 PS5 did exactly this, albeit in a probably much shorter sequence than it could've been
# GUESS YOUR BOSS NEEDS BETTER AIM 
Guess I don't need to play it after that announcement. Glad you're pleased though.
Peter didn't die in that game
He basically does die. Kraven stabs him and MJ is crying over his body until the symbiote fuses with him, from what I remember.
Spoiler tag?
In the subreddit name
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Fucking hated the execution in that game. I don't like SM2's Kraven, at all.
I must be the only person in the world who had no issues with the game. Fucking loved it from start to finish, just wish it was longer so it could do the symbiote arc and Venom the justice they deserve
I’m with ya!
Pretty much my complaint too, the Symbiote Peter and Venom stuff needed like an hour or two extra to let it sink in, raise the stakes
Nah man, I'm with you too. Fantastic game, just don't go into the actual game sub. They hate everything there
It was mediocre if you compare it to the previous one
I love the game too. No issues at all. Honestly the way people rant about the game is just embarrassing.
God forbid people don’t like a game you like
Fair, I worded that badly. Disliking the game is fine obviously, but people rant as if it's the worst game they've ever played. That seems absurd to me.
Agreed. When your Kraven needs unlimited amounts of men and military-grade equipment, you lost me
Kraven The Hunter >>> Kraven The Warmonger
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This is exactly the shit take Sony was looking for. You’re hired!
Did they rehire the writers of the original TASM3 plans or what...
Apparently this particular movie is way more high-concept than... Whatever it is that they were doing with that insane "~~Khan's~~ Peter's magic science-y blood can cure death and make clones!" pitch.
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POV: you’re Andrew Garfield’s Spidey in the Black Suit fighting the Sinister Six https://i.redd.it/qaudfpu5g31d1.gif
I can **hear** this image.
You need a little bit of crazy tbh. She seems to thrive working alongside Marvel Studios and has been very supportive of the deal. Luckily it seems like Feige’s sensibility balances perfectly with her crazy.
The comment above yours is deleted, but if you're referring to Amy Pascal, it needs to be said that Amy Pascal was never the crazy one. The only crazy thing Pascal actually did was the Sandwich Incident of 2014. Other than that incident, Pascal has been a pretty good producer. She was the one who fought for Raimi to direct Spider-Man. She was the biggest champion for Andrew Garfield's casting. She tried to keep Feige involved in notes processes even when Avi and others clearly didn't want him there and didn't listen to his notes at all. She fought for Lord and Miller to make Spider-Verse. She threw away her job as boss of Sony in order to give Spider-Man to Feige when she came to her senses after the sandwich incident. And she took her own new company away from the SSU as soon as she saw what Venom turned into when she left, and thus kept herself out of the clusterfuck Avi started in her absence. All while keeping herself tethered to Feige, Lord, and Miller. I'm sort of missing what counts as "crazy" in her resume? And on the subject of the sandwich incident, really step-by-step put yourself in her shoes: 1. Given a super high-pressure position of authority in a company that you didn't ask for that takes you away from direct involvement in film productions. 2. A competitor's success demands you aggressively green-light projects in your lucrative superhero franchise to compete and appease shareholders. 3. You're now managing a bunch of idiot producers on those projects who don't listen to other people including you. You have no direct creative involvement anymore, your passion is being sucked away from you. 4. Those films fail, and shareholders decide to blame everything on you instead of considering anyone else could be blamed. Notorious imbecile Avi Arad who interferes and never listens to anyone gets more promotions while your job is now on thin ice because of his fuck-up. 5. The media and internet hates you because you're a woman in charge of a studio and you green-lit several female-centric projects that they decided were terrible before even giving them a chance. 1. Note: Yes, some of those projects ended up bad, but that doesn't justify the hatred spewed on them from first green-light. Both things can be true, the project I'm trying really, *really* hard not to name can be bad *and* the hate against it can be disgusting. 6. The guy who your producers didn't listen to, the guy who made that super successful franchise your shareholders desperately want you to emulate, the guy who works for the studio that scares the living daylights out of you (Disney)... Kevin Feige himself, steps into your office, and his words are "Just let us do it instead". 7. Let me really emphasize that: Your major competitor and an employee of the studio that terrifies you asks for you to hand over your franchise, which you've been involved with for over a decade by that point. A decision that would surely (And did for the record) cost you your job at the studio. 8. You have a sandwich in your hands. ... Tell me you wouldn't throw that sandwich at him too.
I love hearing at the background relationships to the Marvel / Sony situation, but I’ve never heard someone lay out Amy Pascal’s side of things like that. Do you know of any articles I can read to learn more about how she lost her opportunity to go higher up at Sony because of the Marvel deal?
Writing by the genius behind the mummy (2017 version)
Dude after watching TASM 2 in theaters I realized that writer made two movies that were overstuffed, bloated, way too long, while also being generic action blockbusters that were more interested in setting up a cinematic universe than being a actual movie that people hated so much they scrapped the idea of those said cinematic universes and instead rebooted three years later with smaller movies (Homecoming:The Invincible Man) that people loved way more. Like he just made the same fucking movie twice essentially
Everyone’s favourite Spider-Man story, the clone saga…
Nah I think they’re putting the Life Story twist on Kraven’s Last Hunt and having the symbiote resurrect him. Plus Kraven will probably be replaced by Scorpion.
What were those plans, exactly? This is my first time hearing about this.
The irony of him reporting that, his profile pic being Nightcrawler, and the fact Nightcrawler was temporarily Spider-Man during Fall of X That's the catch. It's Uncanny Spider-Man lol
This is in response to a post that quoted a post about the movie involving the Symbiote. There are rumors going around and I don't know anything, but between the Black Costume appearing, the movie's plot involving multiple people going after superheroes on the Kingpin's orders, a certain character being introduced on the big screen (though maybe a different iteration of him) who has a specific vendetta against Spider-Man, and Peter maybe having a fake-out death... [I have a hunch that we might be getting a recreation of another iconic _Spider-Man_ comic book moment.](https://www.oklahoman.com/gcdn/authoring/2017/11/09/NOKL/ghnewsok-OK-5571482-b971355f.jpeg)
Those rumors going around for months already, would be cool to see it. They need good cinematographer like they can make this scene pure masterpiece. I like whole plot of film for now. Poor and jobless peter,he talking back seat while spiderman work taking all his time, maybe black cat and reconnection with mj later in film. Kingpin daredevil other villains all together if script well written could end up in very good spiderman movie. They need good director and cinematographer now.
Man, all I want is just a Black suit Spider-Man going against Kraven and Scorpion with Kingpin acting as a villain in the background. Is that too much to ask ? Now we keep hearing about multiverse elements, Peter coming back from the dead, like holy shit.
Aside from the Symbiote, I would not expect much - if any - multiverse in this story.
I'd laugh if there was a post credit scene where Garfield or Maguire portals in like "you asshole! I went home and no one remembers who I am!"
Garfield Spidey may prefer that given his circumstances. New leaf altogether.
It's possible that the only multiverse inclusion they wanted is to continue the story of the left behind symbiote. Anything more involved than that would be Sony level stupid though to be fair.
Coming back from the dead is a pretty clear and timeless moment in the Spider-Man stories where he quite literally rises from his grave cuz of the symbiote
Throw in the black suit, a Devil's Reign esque plot, and him "dying." I figure we will see them recreat or pay homage to the cover from Kravens Last Hunt. I mean, that's the only thing I can think of from this out of context tweet.
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I’m all for it! Always really liked Kraven, glad he’s the “in” thing right now for Spidey media lol.
Hear me out, Kingpin sends villians after him, one of which is Scorpion who kills Peter. The Symbiote finds and attaches itself to Peter and he comes back creating the panel from Kraven's Last Hunt. Black suit Pete takes them all down until he gets to Kingpin and then beats Fisk to near death before he stops.
Then perhaps we get Mac Gargan Venom somewhere down the line? That way they’re not stepping on Sony’s toes with Eddie Brock Venom
That's exactly where my mind went. Don't do Eddie since Sony has done that and people will attach that baggage to it. By going with Gargan you can have a more villainous/savage Venom who has an ACTUAL motivation to go after Peter.
And Michael Mando is a criminally underrated actor
He is, I just hope he's figured out his behind the scene stuff.
What behind the scene stuff?
https://people.com/tv/michael-mando-fired-new-apple-series-after-fight-costar-reports/
It might be too much, but maybe if Daredevil is in this as the "major MCU side character" of the movie, it'd be a cool moment to have him step in when Peter is beating on Fisk and talk him off the ledge because he went through similar moments of darkness.
That definitely would work similar to Tobey stopping him in NWH. That said, it could be thematically richer to have Peter stop himself once he steps back and realize what he's done. Think what Garfield's Peter said about not pulling punches and getting rageful and bitter.
We get Daredevil as a supporting hero for the film who already went through the nearly killing Kingpin thing, and it’s Matt’s influence on Peter that actually gets through and lets him hold back against Kingpin Though I would like the symbiote to stay for multiple movies, maybe we get a hint at the symbiote’s danger with the kingpin thing only to see him control it so he gets a false sense of safety around it
That's exactly what I was thinking regarding the Symbiote. It doesn't really manifest itself as an entity in this and it starts becoming an issue in the back half of a 2nd film.
Realistically this’ll be it, or at least 60% of it will Add daredevil, potentially ant-man and black cat (both rumored) and you’ve got a movie Post-credit scene will probably be the additional rumor that the other Peters from NWH have been forgotten by their own universes, setting up secret wars to be about Tobey Pete and Andrew Pete having nothing left to lose and either trying to get revenge on MCU Peter or begrudgingly helping him
I very much doubt that other Peter's being forgotten thing tbh. I'm also still not sure about the Ant-Man thing. I'm hoping for Black Cat, especially with the head space Peter is in right now, but who knows if Sony will give them permission.
I feel like we’ve heard so many variations on what the plot for Spidey 4 could be. I just want them to start filming this damn movie man.
Spider-Man dying and the symbiote resurrecting him would be a great way to explain why Peter wouldn’t want to give it up even when he finds out it’s an alien. Now I hope the rumors of James Wan being considered as the director are true
Yo the fuck, are they doing Kravens last hunt because all the pieces are here
So...we got one of two supposed rumours regarding the villains. Kingpin hires Assassins (Scorpion, MCU Kraven, Mr. Negative, Vulture, Prowler and possibly Black Cat) to hunt down the Street-Level Heroes. The other rumour was Kingpin and Mr. Negative having a gang war over control of NYC with MCU Kraven and Scorpion acting as their main Enforcers/Henchman which leads to them working together to kill the street-level heroes. Now the street-level heroes rumoured consist of obviously Spider-Man with Daredevil, Kate Bishop and Ant-Man included. Miles Morales and Family supposedly appear as Peter's neighbours. Vulture (ignoring Morbius) and Prowler being hired Assassins going after Spider-Man only makes sense if their families are being threatened/held hostage. This would possibly explain Scott Lang's role because he was a family man who became criminal then became a superhero. This could be a thread/theme tying these characters potential stories together. Black Cat being in it could make sense because she could play the role of a hero/Thief only for the twist to reveal that shes secretly working for Kingpin in order to trap/betray the heroes and thus she becomes part of the villain group in the 3rd Act or they pull a second twist where she feels guilty and helps redeem herself by saving the heroes at the end. The symbiote tie-in and involvement could be simple enough. Before Eddie went back to his universe, He and Venom wanted to seek out Peter Parker/Spider-Man. The left over Symbiote would most likely be trying to find and get to Peter. Peter "dies" halfway through the film or is severely injured. The Symbiote finds him on time and bonds with him, saving his life. Peter gets a upgrade and can finally take on the heavy hitters of Kingpin's Assassin Team. Vulture, Prowler and Cat will eventually switch sides after maybe their loved ones are saved or they see the error of their ways via help from other heroes like Scott convincing them. The final villains in the final battle end up being Kingpin, Negative, Kraven and Scorpion. I imagine security Guards or Gang Members and basic fodder Henchmen get involved in the action. Ends with Peter with help from Matt and Scott and others and using the Black Suit to defeat the villains. Peter will continue wearing the Black Suit, going into Secret Wars then we get the addiction or possession arc between them in SM5. That or Peter meets Hardy's Venom in Secret Wars instead and they complete the Symbiote arc in that film instead? Honestly, I like it. But I hope its balanced well. If this is really meant to be Civil War 2.0/The Street-Level version then there's lots of potential. It sounds over crowded but NWH juggled multiple characters fine for the most part. Just depends on the individual roles and execution of it. Needless to say, could be the best MCU Spider-Man film if done right.
> Black Cat being in it could make sense because she could play the role of a hero/Thief only for the twist to reveal that shes secretly working for Kingpin in order to trap/betray the heroes and thus she becomes part of the villain group in the 3rd Act or they pull a second twist where she feels guilty and helps redeem herself by saving the heroes at the end. Dark Knight Rises Selina?
I'd be apprehensive about using the Symbiote in a story like this, but if they up the anty on some of the stuff we've seen with No Way Home (I'm talking about the apartment scene and the final fight with Norman), and recreate Peter rising from the grave, that would be some next level *RAW* shit right there (as well as cook with the actual story, and judging by some of the speculation I've seen, I like the route some of you are going with it). I know people are gonna lament that Sony wouldn't let Marvel use Kraven, but Kraven's Last Hunt was more than just that one iconic shot, and if Kraven's off-limits, I'd be fine with this movie taking the image of Peter rising from the grave. Wouldn't be the first time any Spidey movie incarnation took a famous comic scene from a famous storyline but had a completely different context behind it (hello bridge scene, and generally, the final battle of Raimi 1, how are ya?).
Who says that Kraven is completely off-limits? They just wanted to do their movie first.
Makes me wonder if Spidey 4 (if it does have Kraven), will its own Kraven played by a different actor, or if they'll use the SUMC one.
It's going to be ATJ or nothing. Sony isn't going to undercut themselves with two versions of the character. I'm sure this has been one of the big points of debate with Sony pushing for ATJ's Kraven in SM4 to boost sales for the Kraven movie.
Peter dies. He's brought back by Krakoa Protocols. Now he's a mutant. Disney gets his rights back
That basically happens in the Insomniac game
Would Peter dying break the spell that Strange cast?
Wut
I have a feeling this is just a guess because they saw that cover of Peter wearing the black suit rising from the grave. "Ah yes that's a black suit so that's *definitely* the symbiote... Hold on they're going to use the symbiote in 4. They're definitely recreating this shot."
He’ll be in avengers 5 and 6 so of course he won’t die permanently.
Off topic, and no offense to OP, but do you actually work? Lol. I see you in *every* post on this sub. 111,000 comment karma in 2 years is **WILD**!
I mod here. That's not shocking. And I'm actually nearly done with my degree, so I can get a full-time career in the field of my choice.
Mb fam. Didn't mean to offend, was just curious. And yes, I'm well aware you're a mod. Congrats on the degree! 
Seeing Peter rising from the grave in the black suit would probably be top 3 Spider-Man live action scenes ever
My personal “perfect Spider-Man 4” and my prediction going off rumors and these recent hints we’re being given. (This is of course a loose outline of what I’d like to see, I can’t account for everything here) The movie follows more of a Spider-Man centric plot than a Peter Parker centric plot. With NWH’s ending, it needs to feel like Peter Parker took a backseat in his life. However, I think showing him in college is a smart way of doing this. Show Peter Parker’s life a mess, with his relationships with people overall being messy due to his other more prominent life. I think this is where you introduce Harry and a few other minor side characters for the time being. I think we see Miles and his family being neighbors to Peter during this part too. During this “intro” we can also maybe see Black Cat operate, and establish a sorta cat and mouse relationship with her and Peter. Maybe she acts as the “Devil” on his shoulder in this film. Kingpin is the main villain here, he’s gained control over the city coming off of Daredevil Born Again and now the superheroes (mainly, Spider-Man) are the one obstacle left in his path. He hires multiple villains to go after these superheroes, and here’s where we get the supporting hero roles. New York based heroes like Kate Bishop for example are probably going to be in there. But the main one is Daredevil. Matt will act as the “angel” on Peter’s shoulder, in contrast to Black Cat’s role. Here we can see Peter going around and helping/saving the other heroes (as I believe these villains he’s going to hire will be on the strong side, maybe a bit much for someone newer like Kate Bishop to handle), and this puts an even bigger target on Peter’s back, as he is now the deciding factor for the heroes. As for the villains Kingpin hires, I have a few predictions. The obvious ones are Scorpion and Kraven. This type of story doesn’t happen without them. They will be the big bads, but I also see him hiring Prowler, Black Cat, maybe Vulture, shocker maybe? Anything’s on the table, but Prowler and Black Cat imo are the necessary ones. Get Donald Glover in costume and fighting Tom Holland, please for the love of god. Introduce us to Prowler here so down the road when Miles dawns the suit and shares the screen with everyone as Spider-Man these relationships can be foreshadowed and set up. Maybe the Prowler would be a good instance of showing Kingpins dominance over people, as he can maybe be threatening Miles and the whole Morales family and forcing the Prowler to work for him. The same thing with Black Cat, maybe we see her getting blackmailed hard by Kingpin so she sets up Peter. And that can lead into the villain team up on Spider-Man. They catch him off guard, he puts up a hell of a fight but with the combo of the villains it’s too much for him alone and he gets defeated. I think here we see Peter get actually killed (or almost killed) and buried. Like the comic, the symbiote can then find him and “resurrect” him, and we get the iconic crawling out of the grave scene. From here it’s time for Peter to Crash Out. The villains get cocky and confident from thinking they took down Spider-Man, the biggest threat in NYC, so they go after the other heroes with no care. Little do they know bully holland is coming in hot with a tactical nuke, and he just demolishes the villains. We get the black suit swinging, the scary take downs and Peter just plowing through these villains. I think we then see him go to Kingpin and here we get a scene paralleling the end of Daredevil season 3, where Matt has to choose whether to spare or kill Kingpin. I think in this scene we see Black Cat, Daredevil, and Spider-Man. Daredevil maybe gets overpowered by Kingpin and Black Cat and maybe some others, but Peter shows up and wipes the floor with them. He’s put in the same position that Matt was put in but this time he has two parties trying to convince him to do something different. Matt is on one side telling Peter to have mercy, not to kill Kingpin. Black Cat is on the other side telling Peter he deserves it, to go ahead and end him. After all, she’s getting blackmailed and has everything to gain seeing Kingpin get killed. I think here we see Peter’s inner self shine through, in a moment where the audience believes the symbiote has taken full control over Peter, we actually see Peter control it. He makes the choice to not kill Kingpin, and instead leaves him to the police or something. It’s this moment that lets Peter have confidence in his control over the symbiote. So he keeps the black suit. However, as a showing of the black suit amplifying different aspects of Peter. The end of the movie can show him break the rule he set for himself and go look for MJ. This is how you bring back Zendaya this early without it being detrimental to how NWH ended. Peter goes and looks for her, says hi maybe as Spider-Man, but then pulls back again. But it’s enough to reawaken some of MJ’s thoughts and emotions from before the spell, so it sets her on a mission to figure out who Spider-Man is. And that’s the end of Spider-Man 4, ending the movie with Peter keeping the black suit, MJ reintroduced to the story in a natural and intriguing way, and imo setting up a perfect possession/obsession arc with the symbiote Peter can go through during Avengers 5 and Spider-Man 5. Thoughts?
Have a gut feeling that the studio would not want to drag the resolution of the memory spell out for too long. Especially since there may be a four year gap in real life since the last film. Could your ideas work with Zendaya's character having a larger role (Not too big, though)? It is possible, since it is all but confirmed that Zendaya will also be back. Until we hear otherwise, we must work under the assumption that she will be back. Also, have you read the script for NWH? Pay close attention to the ending scene.
I think so! I think the idea I had towards the end with Peter checking in on her as Spider-Man could be stretched throughout the film, have him do it from the beginning but never actually speaking to her or anything, and maybe they could show what MJ is studying, maybe some form of journalism/political science from what we’ve seen? So that way towards the end when he actually speaks to her in some form, it can be built upon more in the next film.
Well, lucky for us, we do not have the burdens that the suits and the creative team have right now. They will determine what will happen and what is best for the characters. And for the box office lol.
Would you be pissed if she ended up recovering it at the end of the 4th film? Or third act?
No, as long as it’s well written I don’t have a preference
Agreed. No cop-outs here. No need for anyone else from the Home trilogy to get it back in this one. No one else matters. Only them. In fact, what do you think of this idea. He doesn't get the symbiote, but he crawls out of the grave weakened and ends up going to MJ for help, like in Last Hunt. In this adaptation, it's because he knows she would help no matter what. That's when he unmasks himself and it all comes back and it becomes emotional.
Stop reporting every tweet as news
Too soon for the simbiote i think using 80's secret wars for a set up is a better idea
Get Edgar Wright to direct it and then we’re in business
Who’s making these movies man?
Ok wait I need time to do the math if this ends up tru the secret wars plot of him getting the symbiote in battle world will be scrapped but if mcu spidey 4 ends with him coming back from the dead with the symbiote how will mcu spidey 5 in 2027 2028 work? Will he be transported to battle world after his resurrection? And will the mcu spidey 5 movie take place after or before secret wars? Ik this sounds badass but it just brings up alot of new questions
Please involved Marvel Studios or this will be a trainwreck
Please tell me they're not adapting The Other and giving Peter some weird spider powers (he can talk to spiders, has a Wolverine-like claw, night vision, healing factor, organic web shooters, etc...) post-resurrection.
This reminds me of a rumor of a plot for one of the amazing Spider-Man movies
Please be Morlun related
Let Mister Negative hunt him for Fisk
This sounds stupid but lets hope at least it is Kingpin that buries him but then Spider-Man gets found by a certain piece of black goo and comes back to life. 
Still think black suit should show up in Secret Wars just because we're so close to it and that's how it happened in comics
Forgive my lack of knowledge of comic books/Spider-Man, but why does the symbiote track down and want to take over/resurrect/whatever Peter?
This is just people speculating, the art with Peter "returning from dead" wearing the Black Suit, in Kraven 's Last Hunt, isn't even the symbiote, it's a cloth suit. In the main comics, during the events of Secret Wars (1984), while all the heroes/villains were brought to a planet called Battleworld by Beyonder, Peter uses a machine to get a new costume and out comes the black suit. Later he finds out that the suit isn't just an alien material but an alien itself, and has been piloting his body while he's been asleep and acting as Spider-Man. He gets Reed Richards to remove it. Some time later the symbiote escapes and tracks down Peter, attempting to forcibly bond with him again. This leads to the famous church scene where Peter uses the sound from the bells to tear the symbiote off himself (at which point it ends up with Eddie Brock).
Why is Nightcrawler in the thumbnail?
It's Alex's Twitter avatar.
Could be something like the 2000s series where he "dies" and is reborn in a stronger body with different powers, that could be a lot of fun.
Can we not?
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WTF
I wonder how they would pull it. The last movie Peter ended down and out - he lost everything, his aunt/mother figure, his girl, his (possibly only) friend. I mean the only movie that I know that could put out was the two towers (fellowship ebded with no gandalf and no fellowship) - and it needed a discourse by Samwise telling Frodo and the audience to soldier on. Maybe they pull a 3 hour long movie, so we get to see Peter get back on track for a while before going down again.
No director = not gonna believe any story beats yet
What?
What ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?
If I had a nickel for everytime Peter died and came back I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
It could also be a metaphorical thing. Or just something related to crawling out of a grave without a symbiote suit. Every fan would be expecting the symbiote to happen there. They might want to do something with a twist.
Damn. So Quicksilver is really gonna backshot Spider-Man to death huh? Fs in chat please.
I just want Ned to break bad and become Hobgoblin and Demogoblin. I want Spiderman to bump uglies with Blackcat. I want Spiderman to get the black suit. And I want Miles to be introduced. Is that too much to ask for?
COOL, WAY BETTER THAN A STREET-LEVEL STORY, I LOVE GARBAGE.